Trump-voting Epstein Survivors BETRAYED - Tara joins MSNBC

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Trump-voting Epstein Survivors BETRAYED" – The Tara Palmeri Show

Date: September 9, 2025
Host: Tara Palmeri
Panel: Nicole Wallace, Alex Wagner, Vicki Ward, Jess Michaels

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Overview

This episode centers on a pivotal day in Washington, D.C., where survivors of Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell—some of whom are registered Republicans or Trump voters—gathered at Capitol Hill demanding the release of all Epstein files. They were joined by bipartisan members of Congress, shining a spotlight on transparency, survivor-centered justice, and the political and human stakes of the Epstein investigation. The episode features firsthand survivor testimony, deep journalistic context, and candid discussion among leading reporters and advocates.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Capitol Hill Survivor Gathering and Its Impact

• Survivors, flanked by Congress members in rare bipartisan unity, publicly demanded a vote to release Epstein files.
• Testimonies were raw, personal, and focused on truth over politics.
• Survivors directly addressed President Trump, refuting his narrative that the Epstein scandal is "a Democrat hoax."

[01:17] Anoushka DiGiorgiou: "I met Ghislaine when I was a senior in college. I was just 21 years old... That evening was the sliding glass doors moment that changed the trajectory of my entire life."

[01:52] Alex Wagner (quoting Anoushka DiGiorgiou): "It felt like someone shut off the lights to my soul."

2. Survivors Confronting Trump’s “Hoax” Claim

• Trump, minutes after survivor testimony, dismissed the Epstein case as a “Democrat hoax,” drawing fierce pushback.
• Even right-wing figures like Laura Loomer disputed Trump's characterization.
• Survivors, including Trump-voting Republicans, emphasized the nonpartisan nature of their trauma and appeals.

[03:09] Anoushka DiGiorgiou: "The only motive for opposing this bill would be to conceal wrongdoing. You have a choice. Stand with the truth or with the lies that have protected predators for decades."

[05:24] Virginia Giuffre’s Brother (to Trump): "Mr. President, Donald J. Trump, I am a registered Republican. Not that that matters... This is not a hoax. We are real human beings. This is real trauma."

3. Personal Reflections from Journalists

• Vicki Ward: Noted the power of Anoushka DiGiorgiou’s public identification and her personal connection with Trump.
• Tara Palmeri: Described symbolic moments, including a presidential flyover that seemed to silence the victims outside the Capitol, highlighting class and power divides.
• Alex Wagner: Observed the increased strength and solidarity of survivors, and how further victim-blaming would only strengthen their resolve.

[08:15] Tara Palmeri: "It didn't feel political. It felt more of a story about humanity... There was a flyover... almost like a symbolism of something silencing the victims in their moment."

[11:03] Alex Wagner: "You cannot put these women back into the corner. The more Trump tries to wave this away, the angrier they will get."

4. Continuing Fear, Intimidation, and Threats

• Survivors described ongoing harassment, intimidation by private investigators, and threats to themselves and their families.
• Legal risks, defamation threats, and lawfare remain major obstacles to public naming of enablers or other abusers.

[12:59] Anoushka DiGiorgiou: "I have been threatened... I have also been in multiple situations with both Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell, where they have... said that if I was to talk, if I was to bring any kind of trouble, then there would be severe consequence, including death."

[25:08] Tara Palmeri: "These very powerful men can just slap them with a defamation suit as soon as they say their name. And then they're in court... If the government releases the files, that protects them."

5. Political and Legal Gridlock

• Despite apparent public and bipartisan support, the release of the Epstein files is stalled by entrenched leaders in Congress and the Trump administration.
• Only minor Republican defections would be needed to pass a release bill.
• Speculation abounds around possible high-level cover-ups, with analogies to major political scandals.
• Some Republicans and populist voices (e.g., Joe Rogan, Megyn Kelly, Thomas Massie) continue to call for transparency.

[29:31] Alex Wagner: "It is a scandal on the level of Iran Contra or Watergate... Five Republicans in the House want this material out, the rest are complicit in a massive multi-agency cover-up..."

6. Upcoming Developments & Survivor Advocacy

• Anticipation that Virginia Giuffre’s memoir will be explosive and could further drive bipartisan interest.
• Activism and journalism are credited with keeping the pressure on.
• Victims’ advocates encourage more survivors to speak out.

[32:20] Tara Palmeri: "Virginia Giuffre's Memoir is going to be an explosive news event when it comes out... She was called an American hero by the survivors who were up there."

[34:08] Jess Michaels: "The mere fact that we're having this conversation, this is what we need. We're the ones that need to be heard from. And there are so many that are just speaking up today for the first time."

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• The Personal Invitation to Trump:

  [05:24] Virginia Giuffre’s Brother: "I cordially invite you to the Capitol to meet me in person so you can understand this is not a hoax. We are real human beings. This is real trauma."

• On Survivor Solidarity:

  [11:20] Alex Wagner (paraphrasing victims): "I am no longer weak. I am no longer powerless, and I am no longer alone."

• On Fear and Continuing Threats:

  [12:59] Anoushka DiGiorgiou: "My daughter was threatened when I was volunteering to participate as a witness..."

• On Legal and Media Barriers:

  [25:08] Tara Palmeri: "Trying to get these women who have been through so much trauma to disrupt their lives further by naming some of the most powerful people... There's a reason why the Epstein survivors have been so reluctant to put out their own list."

• Reflection on American Values:

  [17:37] Virginia Giuffre’s Brother: "Tell [your children] you didn't stand against the very people who raped, molested and preyed upon children and young women... Look these survivors in the eye and tell them why. Then look the people of the United States in the eye and tell them why."

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Timeline of Crucial Segments

• [00:37] – Nicole Wallace introduces the day's split-screen: survivor testimony vs. Trump/administration response.
• [01:17] – Anoushka DiGiorgiou tells her story.
• [02:54] – Survivors petition for file release; direct challenge to Congress and Trump.
• [03:09] – Direct challenge to those opposing the release.
• [05:24] – Registered Republican survivor directly invites Trump to meet survivors.
• [08:15] – Tara Palmeri on the symbolic silencing of survivors outside Capitol Hill.
• [12:59] – Anoushka DiGiorgiou recounts intimidation and threats.
• [15:43] – Tara Palmeri discusses survivors' prior optimism about file release under Trump.
• [17:37] – Virginia Giuffre’s brother’s emotional plea for moral clarity from lawmakers.
• [22:01] – Jess Michaels shares early victim experience and impact.
• [23:41] – Jess Michaels on the emotional duality of Trump’s “hoax” claim.
• [25:08] – Tara Palmeri and Sigrid McCauley discuss the very real threat of legal retaliation.
• [29:31] – Alex Wagner compares the situation to major historical scandals.
• [32:20] – Tara Palmeri previews Virginia Giuffre’s memoir and its likely impact.
• [34:08] – Jess Michaels lauds survivor solidarity and ongoing healing.

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Tone and Language

• The episode is candid, emotional, and investigative, blending survivor testimony with deeply sourced political analysis. The conversation emphasizes human impact over partisanship, centering voices of the traumatized while sharply critiquing political expedience and institutional cover-ups.

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Closing Reflections

The episode concluded with all panelists reaffirming the importance of keeping survivors at the center of the narrative, acknowledging the risks and courage involved, and highlighting the ongoing power struggle between the political elite and those demanding truth and accountability. The anticipation of Virginia Giuffre’s memoir and growing bipartisan/public pressure suggest the story is far from over.

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For further updates:

• Follow Tara Palmeri on Substack (The Red Letter) and across social media.
• Watch for continued reporting and survivor testimony as the call for Epstein file transparency intensifies.

Transcript

[Tara Palmeri]

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[Nicole Wallace]

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[Tara Palmeri]

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[Nicole Wallace]

Hi there everyone. It's 4 o' clock in New York. A stark split screen moment unfolded today in the nation's capital. It was a clarion call for transparency from the survivors of Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell. And it was set against Donald Trump and the Trump administration, whose efforts at providing clarity in the Epstein case have been disingenuous at best. Flanked by members of Congress in what is a shockingly rare bipartisan display of consensus these days, survivors gathered on Capitol Hill this morning and called for the release of the Epstein files. They spoke one after the other. Here's a bit from their accounts.

[Anoushka DiGiorgiou]

I met Ghislaine when I was a senior in college. I was just 21 years old. Maxwell introduced me to Jeffrey Epstein later on that day.

[Tara Palmeri]

That evening was the sliding glass doors.

[Anoushka DiGiorgiou]

Moment that changed the trajectory of my entire life. I was once bright, fun, outgoing and kind.

[Tara Palmeri]

I loved people and people genuinely enjoyed being around me.

[Anoushka DiGiorgiou]

But after meeting Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell, it felt like someone shut off.

[Alex Wagner]

The lights to my soul.

[Nicole Wallace]

Ghislaine, it was your butler that greeted me at the front door of your beautiful home. And it was your calm, manipulative and fraudulent demeanor that cultivated my trust. That coercive system that you have mastered was entirely end game or oriented. And that end game was to feed the perversion of you and Jeffrey through sexual violence. They spoke today. It was part of a public push to have all of the Epstein materials and files released. The petition that would make that happen, that would trigger a vote in Congress on the bill releasing the Epstein files at this point just needs the support of two more Republicans. Here's what the survivors had to say about that. It's time for us to see beyond the curtain.

[Virginia Giuffre's Brother]

Why was Jeffrey Epstein so protected?

[Nicole Wallace]

Who is still being protected? So I ask you, President Trump and members of Congress, why do we continue to cover up sexual abuse and assault? Who are we covering for?

[Anoushka DiGiorgiou]

And to be clear, the only motive for opposing this bill would be to conceal wrongdoing. You have a choice. Stand with the truth or with the lies that have protected predators for decades.

[Nicole Wallace]

Donald Trump and his administration have made that choice. The White House says that supporting the bill that would trigger the release of the Epstein files would be viewed by them as, quote, a very hostile act to the Trump administration. And here's what Donald Trump said in the Oval Office about the Epstein case just moments after the survivors finished speaking. So this is a Democrat hoax that never ends. You know, it reminds me a little of the Kennedy situation. We gave him everything over and over again, more and more and more, and nobody's ever satisfied. And I think it's. I think, really, I think it's enough because I think we should talk about the greatness of our country and the success that we're having. Okay. Now, the idea that the Epstein case is a hoax is something that Trump's own base of supporters, the most fervent ones, don't even believe. Neither do his most prominent allies. Laura Loomer puts it this way. Would Ghislaine Maxwell be serving time in prison if it was all a hoax? Good point. Laura Loomer. Again, Donald Trump made those comments we just showed you minutes after survivor after survivor after survivor of sexual violence came out and publicly told her story about how Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell recruited them and manipulated them and exploited them and sexually abused them, many of them talking about how they are to this day still traumatized and grappling with and struggling to recover from that trauma. Here's what one of the survivors said about Donald Trump's baseless claims of all of this being a hoax just moments before he spoke. The President has said that this Epstein issue is a hoax is the word that he used. Can we get your reactions to what you think when you hear him say that?

[Jess Michaels]

President co host.

[Virginia Giuffre's Brother]

I'll answer that. Mr. President, Donald J. Trump, I am a registered Republican. Not that that matters, because this is not political. However, I cordially invite you to the Capitol to meet me in person so you can understand this is not a hoax. We are real human beings. This is real trauma.

[Nicole Wallace]

What does it feel like emotionally to hear that.

[Virginia Giuffre's Brother]

It'S being gutted from the inside out? Not that I would know what that feels like, but I imagine it's the anxiety buildup with the depression and the survival mode, and then your nervous system goes limp and, ironically, is shot, and it feels like you just want to explode inside because nobody again is understanding that this is a real situation.

[Nicole Wallace]

Donald Trump finding himself today on the other side of the survivors of Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell, including at least one registered Republican, as they push to release all of the Epstein material. It's where we start today. Tara Palmeri is here. She writes the Red letter on Substack and has hosted two acclaimed podcast series on this topic called Broken Jeffrey Epstein and Power the Maxwells. Also joining us is my friend and colleague MSNBC senior political analyst Alex Wagner's back. And back with me at the table for the hour, investigative journalist, host and co producer of the podcast Chasing Ghislaine. Vicki Ward is back with us. What did you think?

[Vicki Ward]

I thought it was so powerful, Nicole, and so not political. I have to say, for me, the biggest headline was the first speaker, Anoushka degiorgiou, for two reasons. One, I watched her testify under a pseudonym, Kate, at Ghislaine Maxwell's criminal trial. And to my knowledge, this is the first time that she has now come forward and sort of identified herself as one of the four key witnesses at that trial. The other thing about Anoushka DiGiorgio is she knows Donald Trump very well. I've reported this. It was reported many years ago that she met him through Ghislaine Maxwell and they spent a weekend at Mar A Lago. So the fact that at the end of her remarks, she talked directly to President Trump and said, you have the power. Please use it in the correct way, that was very meaningful.

[Nicole Wallace]

Tara, what did you learn today, or what did you see platformed that brings what this should all be about for everybody into focus, and that's centering all of our conversations, as you do, around the victims themselves.

[Tara Palmeri]

I have to agree with Vicki that it really didn't feel political. It felt more of a story about humanity. And hearing these women, when President Trump called it a hoax and they responded saying, we're people, we're human beings right here. We're not a hoax. You can come here and see us for yourself. I will talk to you. One of the victims addressed the president directly. President Donald J. Trump. Come here. I am a human being, you know, I'm not a hoax. And I think as that was happening, there was this incredible moment. You'd have to be there to really feel it. But there were the. There was a flyover, a V of these military planes just going over the victims as they were speaking. And they had to stop because it was so loud. And this was a flyover that the president arranged at the same time as the president of Poland is visiting him. And it was almost like a symbolism of something silencing the victims in their moment. Right there, while they're not even inside the Capitol, where they should be on the House floor testifying and telling their truth, because they haven't been invited to do that. No, they're standing on the grass outside of the house of where some of the most powerful people in the world sit, that can decide their fate and the fate of so many other hundreds and hundreds of victims that just want the truth out there. It was just that there was just such an imbalance in so many ways. And it reminded you a lot about the fact that this is a class story about the elites versus the people without power and the struggle. You saw the struggle play out outside on the lawn and with the men inside. You know, some women as well in these meetings, deciding, we know what's best for you, little lady. We're protecting the innocent or the innocent.

[Nicole Wallace]

Alex, it's important to always, I think, time capsule this story. So when you see these elegant, intelligent, polished, beautiful women standing before the Capitol, they were children, many of them, when they were assaulted or they were as the first victim spoke out. I love that description of a sliding doors moment in her life where if she hadn't walked through the door or been manipulated to do so and introduced to Ghislaine Maxwell and Jeffrey Epstein, her life would have been totally different. Because I think it captures what was taken from all these victims, some of them as young as children. Are we still a country capable of holding children, victims of sex abuse, in the center of a story like this? Right. Like, are we. Are we. Can we still do this?

[Alex Wagner]

Yeah, I think we can. I mean, first of all, I think, you know, the fact that you're seeing some bipartisan movement on the Hill to really hold the President by virtue of releasing the files, hold the President accountable on this, I think is symbolic of, you know, some certain small sliver of the Republican Party that believes that transparency is the order of the day. And I think the development this afternoon that the victims are once again at the center of the story and that our are speak and they are speaking out really changes the dynamic on all of this. Right. It is not sufficient or acceptable for the President of the United States to say in the wake of this public testimony, this is a Democrat hoax. These are women who were children when they were abused. They want their stories told. And, man, I don't know about you, Nicole, but I was really struck by the fierceness, the anger, the complete lack of trepidation to go forward with their stories and accounts. I mean, Vicki was talking about one of the first speakers and it was good to Giorgio. And she said, I am no longer weak. I am no longer powerless, and I am no longer alone. The thing about sharing your story and building kinship and building sisterhood around this is that these victims clearly feel a lot stronger together than they were before when they were in the shadows alone. And that is not the kind of thing that you can bottle back up. You cannot put these women back into the corner. And I think the more Trump goes out there and the more he tries to undermine their accounts, the more he tries to wave this away, the angrier they will get. I mean, you heard other. Another victim say, we're going to release our own client list. They have the information whether Donald Trump's Justice Department wants to release it or not. There are people who know what happened, and they are in front of microphones now.

[Nicole Wallace]

Let me play some of Anoushka's sound since you've all mentioned her.

[Anoushka DiGiorgiou]

I have been threatened. I was threatened by phone. My daughter was threatened when I was volunteering to participate by means of being a witness in a civil lawsuit that Virginia Giuffre was bringing against Ghislaine Maxwell. I have been followed. I have been stalked. I have been followed not only by journalists, but by people who do not get out of the car and do not try and talk to me and just drive behind me as I drive my daughter to school. So the fear is very real for us. I have also been in multiple situations with both Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell, where they have been direct and indirect about implying and saying that if was to talk, if I was to bring any kind of trouble, then there would be severe consequence, including death.

[Nicole Wallace]

Vicki, just explain how she knows Donald Trump.

[Vicki Ward]

So Anoushka DiGiorgio first met Ghislaine Maxwell in London when she was just a teenager. She talked about this. Maxwell's trial. Maxwell introduced her to Jeffrey Epstein. But when she was in New York, she also introduced her separately to Donald Trump. And it was reported in one of the English tabloids many years ago that Maxwell and Anoushka went, I believe, to Mar A Lago for a weekend with Donald Trump. Anoushka degiorgiou has said publicly that Donald Trump was very nice to her, and there was nothing. And you could see she's very powerful today. And Alex is right. They're angry, but there was no anger directed personally at Donald Trump, which is why his reaction is so baffling, I think.

[Nicole Wallace]

Nicole? Well, I mean, this whole story has been centered in the political context. Tara. Around. Around the conspiracy theories that percolated for years on the right. I mean, that that was elevated by Elon Musk when he was mad at Donald Trump, who tweeted in his final sort of act of breakup rage at Trump, you know, Trump's in the Epstein files. You know, I'm out of here. But it feels like what the victims have accomplished is to pull it back out of the politics and put it back into the crime scene. And I wonder if you think that moves around any tectonic plates in Congress.

[Tara Palmeri]

I think you're right. I think they have managed to try to sort of walk on this wire and try not to offend either side. I think they. I mean, Virginia Giuffre, before she died, she told me that she believed that President Trump would release the files. That, you know, she believed that because he arrested Jeffrey Epstein in 2019, that this would Bethis would happen in his administration like was promised. Right. She also said that Elon Musk promised her over DM that he would release the files. A lot of these survivors, they are Republicans. They arethey were hopeful that this administration, after listening to so many MAGA influencers say, saying that they wanted this out there, they wanted this cabal of, at the time, Democratic elites to be revealed that this would happen. And so these aren't. They're not out there saying, you know, we want the head of the president. In fact, you know, Brad Edwards, who's the lawyer for the victims, said, I interviewed Donald Trump in 2009. He subpoenaed him. I interviewed him about this many years ago, trying to get leads on Jeffrey Epstein from Donald Trump, because they were in the middle of their real estate feud at the time. But they were very close friends at the height of Epstein's sex trafficking operation. And Trump gave him leads, although he did leave him with a very creepy anecdote about going to Epstein's house and seeing young girls in the pool area. And he asked, he told Brad that he asked Epstein about it, and Brad told him that it was a Big Brother, Big Sister program, which obviously is very creepy. But the point is, is that Brad said at the conference, I'm ready to work with you again. We did this before in 2009. TRUMP. I'm here, Alex.

[Nicole Wallace]

Let me show you what Virginia Giffre's brother said today about what happens next.

[Virginia Giuffre's Brother]

I plea to you, whether you're a dad, a mom, a brother or a sister, look your young ones in the face, look them in the eye, and tell them you didn't stand against the very People who raped, molested and preyed upon children and young women. Tell them you were willing to negotiate a deal. Money should never be what makes something right or wrong. If you vote no, your stance will be clear. You will be choosing to stand on the side of the rich and powerful, allowing money to buy your way out of the consequence. But here's my one ask. Look these survivors in the eye and tell them why. Then look the people of the United States in the eye and tell them why. And then when you're alone, look yourself in the mirror and ask yourself why.

[Nicole Wallace]

I thought in that moment that all this calcified acquiescence to Trump had its first shot of melting.

[Jess Michaels]

Absolutely.

[Alex Wagner]

I mean, I think about the pictures of Nancy Mace coming out of closed door testimony that was intended to do the opposite, to convince Republicans not to push for the release of these files. And she's weeping. You know, she herself was a victim of sexual harassment, sexual assault, and. But you don't have to be a victim to, to understand, to feel the emotional impact of this. You just have to be a human being, I mean, alive in the world to understand the sort of the unbearable and awful iniquity in this world between those who have power, money, fame and fortune and those who don't. And that's why this story has been so resonant since 2015, when Donald Trump himself first introduced it, when it was politically convenient for him. And now it's politically inconvenient for him, he's decided. Or convenient for other reasons that have not yet been disclosed. And he's trying to back as far away from it as he can. It reminds me of his position with Operation Warp Speed. You know, the COVID vaccine was a thing he did and in other, in other ways would be a crowning achievement. And he's trying to get as far away from it as he possibly can because it's no longer politically convenient, no matter how many lives are lost in the process. So the same thing with this, the Jeffrey Epstein saga. Revealing Jeffrey Epstein to be the criminal that he was, to be the sick person that he was, is something that is arguably good for society. And now Donald Trump is clearly engaging his party and its elected representatives in trying to prevent the truth from coming out. That is the only explanation for the shenanigans you have seen on the Hill in the last 24 hours.

[Nicole Wallace]

Well, shenanigans on the Hill and actually moving a convicted child sex predator from a minimum security prison to an even lower security prison in Glenn Maxville. We'll talk about that. On the other side of a short break, Tara, Alex and Vicki, stay with me. When we come back, much more on this story. We'll talk with one of the Epstein survivors who was in Washington, D.C. today sharing her story and her decades long fight for accountability. Also still ahead later in the broadcast, some major setbacks to Donald Trump's agenda, the latest being his pledge to deport migrants to other nations. It's just the latest legal blow to his claim of limitless presidential power. We'll get to that and much more when Deadline White House continues after a quick break. Don't go anywhere. We are back. We're all back with Jess Michaels, an advocate for survivors and one of Jeffrey Epstein's earliest known survivors. Joining me are Tara Palmieri, Alex Wagner and Vicki Ward. Vicki, you had a question?

[Vicki Ward]

I did, Jess. I was so interested in hearing your extraordinarily awful story. 1991 sent bells going in my head because that was the year that Jeffrey Epstein met Ghislaine Maxwell and his predatory behavior really went on steroids. Given it was obviously a friend of yours, a colleague, who introduced you to Jeffrey Epstein. Do you think she knew what might happen when you went to meet with him?

[Jess Michaels]

Thank you for that question, Vicki. And yes, I have called her the Ghislaine Maxwell before there was a Ghislaine Maxwell, because I know that she was working with Jeffrey in the beginning of 1991. I came back from a job in Tokyo in May of 1991 and then I met him in July. So I believe that was before, before Ghislaine picture. I did not think that when it happened when, when I was sexually assaulted by, by Jeffrey Epstein on that date at that time, I could not imagine that my friend had sent me to someone that would do that. So I thought I was the only one. I didn't think that this had happened to her. It would be years later when I would recognize that because I was quite traumatized afterwards, it hadn't occurred to me we didn't see each other again. And I realized, wait, she never reached back out to me either.

[Vicki Ward]

Wow.

[Alex Wagner]

Jess, it's Alex Wagner. I'm so struck by the way in which you're not only sharing your story, but you're an advocate for all these victims. And I have to ask, you know, when you're with these women, for example, today, when you hear, first of all, what, what was the reaction among them when they got news that the president is referring to these stories as a Democrat hoax, what was, how did that, how did this collection of survivors take that.

[Jess Michaels]

It. It's. It's funny because at the same time that we're furious, it's. It's hilarious, right? Like, it's both things, because everyone knows it is not a Democrat hoax. I mean, it's. It's literally trying to find some way to distract from all of us speaking together at the same time. So it's deliberately cruel, it's deliberately dismissive, and at the same time, it's hysterical.

[Nicole Wallace]

Tara, let me bring you in, and let me ask you a question first. I mean, I don't want to leave out of this picture the extraordinary risk that Jess and all these women are taking. We all know, because we're in this media moment and this political moment every day. It is a moment that is brutal. And the risks that the victims face for speaking out are on the record. The threats, the following, the intimidation. Just say something about what we can't see about the risks that Jess and all the survivors are taking by speaking out at all.

[Tara Palmeri]

I'm so happy that you mentioned that, Nicole, because it was really chilling for me personally to hear Anoushka talking about, you know, these private investigators, essentially, that are following her around, intimidating her. And, you know, I even heard, you know, journalists and people in the crowd saying name names, like, trying to get these women who have been through so much trauma in their lives to go even further and disrupt their lives even further by naming some of the most powerful people in this country that they know were complicit in Jeffrey Epstein's crimes. These very powerful men that can just slap them with a defamation suit as soon as they say their name, and then they're in court. And, you know, I was Talking to Sigrid McCauley, who is from the David, Boies, Shiller and Flexner firm. They took on Harvey Weinstein. They took on Prince Andrew. I mean, they have taken on the Epstein survivors. And they told me this threat is real. I mean, there is a reason why the Epstein survivors have been so reluctant to put out their own list. And I loved hearing Lisa Phillips say, we're going to put our own list out. And I've been saying this all along. It wasn't Epstein list. It was the survivors list. So the men that they were trafficked to or the men that they saw, you know, being with young girls. And so this isit is a really complicated time in lawfare right now. I mean, you see the President of the United States suing the Wall street journal for $100 billion for reporting on a card that he gave to Jeffrey Epstein. A birthday card that was lewd and dispatch disgusting and suggested that they had some sort of shared secret. He denies that he gave that card, but he's suing the paper for $100 billion. It just sets a precedent right now where people can just engage in lawfare. And having known Virginia Giuffre very well and seeing the toll that that defamation suit with Alan Dershowitz took on her, I mean, I have to think it contributed to the place that she was in towards the end of her life. It was really, really difficult to go through that. And frankly, a lot of these people, like I said, they've been through so much trauma already, they're supposed to stick their neck out again. If the government releases the files, that protects them. And that's why they want those files out there.

[Nicole Wallace]

I want to turn to that piece. ToI mean, this could be over at midnight. I mean, this could be. The Department of Justice could decide. Too much, too much pressure and we could release it. There is a lever for doing that. There is political support in the Republican Party among maga, there is enthusiasm, or there was before they were sort of whipped back onto the talking points. Among MAGA influencers, folks like Megyn Kelly and Charlie Kirk a few weeks ago were very interested in that material. Joe Rogan remains interested. I want to ask all of you why that hasn't happened yet. I have to sneak in a break first. We'll all be right back.

[Alex Wagner]

Do you think a lot?

[Tara Palmeri]

These are 33,000 pages.

[Alex Wagner]

You're saying it's not enough.

[Nicole Wallace]

If you look at the terabytes or gigabytes of data, it's like only 1% of what they possess, and 97% of it's already been released. And eventually what's going to happen, I'm afraid, is this is going to be like Pam Bondi's binders. People are going to dig into it and say, there's nothing new here. They haven't given us anything. They've given us the sleeves off their vest. So, Alex Wagner, I'm not great at math, but 97% of 1% means nothing new here. This, this idea of terabytes and gigabytes of data is something that Joe Rogan talked about for months and hours and hours. And his source was Kash Patel, who went on his show and for years and years talked about terabytes and gigabytes of data in the Jeffrey Epstein files. So for any victim who today was calling for the terabytes or gigabytes of data to be released, the first person who really platformed the idea of that much data materials is the current FBI director. Where is this heading?

[Alex Wagner]

It is not heading into a good place if you're part of the House Republican Conference. I mean, Thomas Massie is making the rest of his party look a lot like they're engaged in a pretty nefarious cover up to protect the President of the United States. Going from the President to the speaker of the House to the Republican leadership of the House Oversight Committee to the head of the FBI to the Attorney General to even the Director of National and Intelligence, all of whom have worked overtime to create scenarios to either distract from the Epstein saga and materials being called for release or to actually cover up the release of those materials. I mean, it is, this is the thing nobody should really lose sight of. Is there like five Republicans in the House who actually care for this material to see the light of day and the rest of them are either complicit in a massive multi agency cover up or what? I don't know. It is a scandal on the level of Iran Contra or Watergate. Nicole, what is happening here? And this is, you know, this is before we actually know the substance of what's in the files. The idea that these people who are an independent wing of the government, the legislative branch, and even though they are tasked with keeping, you know, upholding the law and seeking justice, are engaged in a plot to make the President look good and to cover up material that he does not want released to the American public is scandalous and nobody should ever lose sight of that. The fact that Thomas Massie is out there singing from the same hymnal as Ro Khanna is a really big problem for Donald Trump and his Republican Party.

[Nicole Wallace]

Jess, what do you think about Todd Blanche, who's the Deputy Attorney General of the United States of America, visiting Ghislaine Maxwell in prison and then after that visit, when you get those moving her to a more comfortable prison setting.

[Jess Michaels]

I think a couple of things. The fact that he went at all and gave this convicted sex trafficker of minors the opportunity to be heard over survivors, that's horrific. That alone. But the fact that survivors were never told what was happening. We were never told through our attorneys. We were never contacted. It was never expressed to us in advance in any way what was happening. And so over and over and over again, survivors are getting lost.

[Nicole Wallace]

Tara Palmeri, you and Vicki know this story inside and out. What do you think happens next?

[Tara Palmeri]

I think that's. I think they would like this to go away. I think Virginia Giuffre's Memoir is going to be an explosive news event when it comes out. That's coming out in October. It's being tightly guarded by the publishers for various reasons that I think we all know she was very involved and she, you know, was called an American hero by the survivors who were up there, who said they wouldn't be up there without her. I mean, she was one of the first ones to come Forward back in 2001 and say, I was assaulted by Prince Andrew. And, you know, they all say that it was her courage and she saw something so much and you could see her name all over the flight logs. And I think that will be another moment that moves people in a way that is truly bipartisan. This is a part of, I mean, this is a populist movement, almost this Epstein story at this point. And so I think that that will keep the story going whether they like it or not, and then there'll be more. I mean, I do think journalism will drive this forward. I think the stories will drive it forward. I think, you know, at least I hope so. And if officials can't do it, whistleblowers, that's my hope. And other than that, I mean, we're relying on the Department of Justice, which isn't really well known for self regulating.

[Nicole Wallace]

Especially not these days. Jess, I want to give you a last chunk of time or a last word. Is there anything I didn't ask you that's important to you that you leave shows like this and say, you know something? They never ask, but it really matters.

[Jess Michaels]

I actually think you did a great job. Nicole and I did a good job. And the mere fact that we're having this conversation, this is what we need. We're the ones that need to be heard from. And there are so many that are just speaking up today for the first time that want to get their voices out there. And I encourage it because it's been extremely healing for me. So that's all I want to say, is that I'm incredibly grateful for all the women that are on this call with me right now.

[Nicole Wallace]

Jess, I'm incredibly grateful for you. I can't imagine going through what you've been through and then having the courage to talk about it ever, but let alone on television ever. So thank you. Thank you so much for sharing your story and for doing it here with all of us. Tara Belmieri, Alex Wagner and Vicki Ward, thank you for being my wing women and the extraordinary journalists that you all are in your own right. Thank you.

[Tara Palmeri]

I want to thank my producer, Eric Abenate. Adam Stewart, who handles my thumbnails, and Abby Baker on my social media. If you want to support my independent journalism and get my scoop straight to your inbox, please sign up for the red letter. You can do that by going to Tara Palmeri.com that's T A R A P A L M E R I dot com. You can obviously share this with your friends. Like subscribe, leave a written review. I'm not backing down. I'm back from my vacation. I feel so much stronger. Thank you to all of you who have sent me notes. Just turned 38 and it's gonna be 30. Great. And I really feel positive about what I am able to accomplish with this community, what we can all do. And I appreciate all the tips and everything you've sent to me. And of course, I'll be in D.C. on Wednesday, so check out my social media. I'll be on. I'll be on msnbc. I'll be on Nicole Wallace's show. I'll be doing a live on Substack with Terry Moran. You can go to Substack. I'm on there at Tara Palmeri. And I'll be live from the Capitol. So check out all of my social media, check out my podcasts, everything. I will be there. Twitter X, whatever they're calling it now. I'll be back again soon.

[Nicole Wallace]

Your sausage McMuffin with egg didn't change your receipt did.

[Alex Wagner]

The sausage McMuffin with egg extra value meal includes a hash brown and a.

[Nicole Wallace]

Small coffee for just $5 only at McDonald's for a limited time.

[Tara Palmeri]

Prices and participation may vary.