Interviewer (2:55)

Now to kick it off, I want to talk about, you know, everyone, obviously, you know, is, is very interested to know what is in the Epstein documents. We're now in what feels like a hurry up and wait period where the Department of Justice has 30 days to release anything, you know, based on what you know about the DOJ and the Trump administration, what do you see the next steps in this process looking like?

Tara Palmeri (3:21)

Well, obviously there are going to be a lot of people, although I think the more people that are involved, the more people know if there have been redactions that are unnecessary. So maybe it will be a small group of people who are working round the clock for, you know, a month before they release these files. But Bloomberg reported in August when they had a, when they put in a freedom of information request that President Trump's name was already starting to be redacted from those files that were returned back.

Interviewer (3:52)

Right.

Tara Palmeri (3:52)

And that they had sources inside of the FBI that told them that. So not a great sign. This case to me could use an independent counsel, special prosecutor, someone outside the doj. That's not Pam Bondi who said, you know, in February, I'm looking at the, I'm looking at the Epstein list to now to, you know, July. There is no Epstein list. There's no third party perpetrators.

Interviewer (4:15)

Right.

Tara Palmeri (4:16)

To wait. There are some, we're reopening it, the investigation, but only looking to Democrats. So it's like, what's, you know, is this really a trustworthy person with these files also just serve so many large caveats that they could exploit, but we have no idea if they are.

Interviewer (4:34)

Yeah, well, and I, I think you're mentioning the special counsel is a really interesting comparison to the second Trump administration from the first because there was a much less, I guess, salacious scandal that happened during his first term with him reaching out to, you know, the, the president of Ukraine and all of that turned in, you know, that resulted in a special counsel. He actually did appoint someone, but I mean, what are the odds that he does that this time around?

Tara Palmeri (5:02)

Oh, no, there's no chance. I think he knows he's in his final term. This is not like he's so sensitive about the Epstein files. There's no way he's going to bring more people into this. And he doesn't seem to, he feels like, he doesn't seem to feel the gravity of politics right now. Know he's dealing with an affordability crisis. And he's hanging out with all of these dictators like mbs running around the world trying to win Nobel Peace Prizes. So I don't think he worries as much about getting reelected as you, you know, as one would expect. So I think he's going to do whatever he wants and whatever he does impacts the, you know, his predecessor, if they are aligned with him, like J.D. vance or Marco Rubio. But, I mean, his numbers are really starting to crater, especially around the economy, which was partially why he was elected. If not, not even partially, I would say was probably the number one reason he was elected.

Interviewer (6:08)

Yeah, most definitely. Most definitely. And, yeah, like you said, it doesn't seem like that's. I mean, he's not known for being honest. And so it's not really a surprise that that's not a priority of his or even that he's setting up, you know, big businesses to profit while regular people can't. Still can't afford groceries. But it's, you know, it's not likely that there will be transparency into these Epstein files while Trump and his Department of Justice are in control of it. There are some ways that either the public or Congress can force transparency, though. I think one of the most recent Examples is the 20,000 documents that Congress released last week from Epstein's estate, where it's, you know, it's the same messages and everything that are in the Epstein files, but they aren't touched and tainted by the doj. Do you think that's maybe a potential avenue that the state will continue releasing things and it could be a way to compare and contrast and see what's been taken out?

Tara Palmeri (7:15)

Yeah, I do. I think, you know, subpoena powers. Amazing thing if you are in charge. And so Democrats, I think if they win back the House, they'll have that as well, and they might be able to subpoena Department of Justice. You know, like people who are running the Department of Justice, like Pam Bondi, who from prior testimony hearings, when she's had to testify, she's putting much stone walls. But, yeah, you can go to the Epstein estate and get the files from them and get not files, but emails and try to put the pieces together, but there's really nothing quite like what would be in the actual files. So I think what people do is like, why did he get this sweetheart deal? And I could see the government saying, because there is a caveat for national security and foreign policy, that if Epstein was in fact a source of intelligence, whether to the FBI or to the CIA, that they would say we can't actually release the files because. Or not the files, but like certain files that explain why he got the sweetheart deal.

Interviewer (8:31)

Yeah. Or even I think you've mentioned before that they're. There could be a claim that since Donald Trump is the president, anything that could be damaging against him could be useful to foreign enemies or, you know, spies. And so then that would be a national security risk and thereby. Yeah, right, exactly, exactly. And thereby preempt anything touching Donald Trump.

Tara Palmeri (8:57)

Yeah, I could see that for sure. So, you know, there's a lot of different ways, but ultimately, yes, these are the caveats. But if there's no oversight, then, you know, I do think everyone is like, sort of afraid of the people that are running the FBI, like Cash Patel, who's giving polygraph tests, and, and Pambani because of their extreme loyalty to Trump. So I think it's hard to be a whistleblower, but hopefully there are some who will tell us what's going on there. And if there is redactions, I mean, obviously Bloomberg had a number of sources that were telling them that Trump. That they were already redacting Trump's names from the documents.

Interviewer (9:42)

Yeah, yeah. I've been speaking with a few people from the Oversight Committee about other safeguards they're trying to put in place. You know, Representative Lee from Pennsylvania, she, she had put in a subpoena for the full unredacted files to be handed directly. Committee, it got bipartisan support and the subpoena was issued. And so if that is complied with, and now with the passage of the Epstein Transparency act, there's a lot more weight behind it then the House committee would have the complete unredacted files that they would then be able to take out victims names and potentially use that once again to compare with, with the DOJ's redacted version that they put out.

Tara Palmeri (10:27)

That's good to know.

Interviewer (10:28)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, it's interesting because it's something they've been pushing for, for a while and it's, I mean, that subpoena has basically been ignored this entire time, but with the full weight of, you know, unanimous, minus one support of Congress, I think it gives them a little bit more teeth.

Tara Palmeri (10:48)

Yeah, right. I don't know that Republicans are going to really give them much more than what they've already given them. Yeah. You know, so.

Interviewer (11:01)

Yeah. Yeah. Which does. Doesn't bode too well. And it does look like a lot of Republicans in the broader media ecosphere are already working to provide cover, you know, for every Marjorie Taylor Greene, who's doing a 180 and pushing for things to be open. There's people like Megyn Kelly who are more or less trying to normalize an underage sex trafficking ring.

Tara Palmeri (11:27)

Yeah, that's true. It's quite something to see it all happen. So, yeah, I don't understand how Megyn Kelly can do that. I think it's just foul, and especially from a woman who accused President Trump of poisoning her before that famous debate, you know, where he said that there was blood coming out of her eyes. You know, she accused Roger Ailes of sexual harassment. And it's like she has no sympathy for these people anymore because she's chosen a different allegiance. And that allegiance is Trump, and it's blind allegiance. And I just feel like the hypocrisy is unreal. So it's. Yeah. Kitty says she has daughters. One of them is, I think, 14. So, yeah, yeah. For me, I created a small short, and it just sort of hit me on a Friday night. I was exhausted, trying to leave my house, trying to finish up all my work, and I was like, wait a minute. I remember listening to the tapes from the girls being interviewed by the Palm beach detective, and I remember that one of the girls called his penis a wee wee. She was so young, and, like, Courtney Wilde was 14, and she had braces on her teeth when she showed up. And I thought, I gotta find the audio. And so we scrambled my team to find some audio, and we put together a little stitch to sort of be like, hey, Megyn Kelly, listen to the voices of these girls. Because this is what it sounds like when you're 14 years old. Like, this is the sound. And then I thought it was interesting that the survivors in their video where they were trying to, like, that they put out right before the vote, they were holding up pictures of themselves, and they were the age when they met Jeffrey Epstein. Like, I thought that was really, really touching because seeing is believing, hearing is believing. And so for a lot of people that want to just discount their pain and what they went through, I think it's really important that they remember that they're human beings that have been broken from this horrible thing that's happened to them.

Interviewer (13:39)

Yeah, yeah, I. I think that's something that is. No matter how much focus it's. It's too much overlooked that people, in their zealousness, to make this a way to score political points, that there are victims who are still being hurt by this. I mean, some of the initial accusers of Donald Trump, even before he was elected the first time around. You know, they withdrew lawsuits and accusations because they were getting death threats. And it's, you know, it's not like they were trying to take him down because they wanted a Republican candidate to lose. They, they wanted people to know that they were voting for a sexual abuser.

Tara Palmeri (14:19)

Yeah, yeah. It's just wild time we're in right now. But I'm really happy that the bill passed, even though it has the word transparency in it and there's not much transparency, but alas. Yeah.

Interviewer (14:34)

I mean, there's one thing Congress is good at, it's giving their bills very ironic names.

Tara Palmeri (14:40)

Monica Lewinsky said she tweeted out that they were able to hand over the star report within 48 hours. You know, so.

Interviewer (14:51)

Geez.

Tara Palmeri (14:52)

And they've got a whole month, so.

Interviewer (14:54)

Yeah, yeah, well, and even the, what, the Mueller report, you know, that took time for, for the DOJ at the time, the Attorney General Bill Barr, to go through and, and redact anything that was damning before they released that. So it's, it's, it's very frustrating that they're able to use these, give themselves these wiggle rooms so that they can work around transparency, all while claiming that this is all in the name of transparency.

Tara Palmeri (15:26)

Right, exactly. Yeah. So. And also they will claim that they reopen the case, so.

Interviewer (15:34)

Right, right. But I, I think that's why it's so important that the victims are, one, able to stay at the forefront, one, so they can receive justice and two, so that they can correct the narrative, which is a dangerous thing for them. But it's, I mean, it's, it's very brave. And, and I think that at the end of the day, you know, they're the ones who are harmed the most, and I believe that they're the ones who are going to be able to effectively take down and hold accountable the people who've harmed them.

Tara Palmeri (16:08)

Yeah, I agree. I agree with you. We hope so.

Interviewer (16:12)

Yeah. Yeah. Now, I did want to ask about something that you experienced recently with someone who's in the files, but someone who is poised themselves as being very against Donald Trump, and that's Michael Wolf.

Tara Palmeri (16:26)

He's in the emails. We don't know if he's in the files, but we know he's in the emails.

Interviewer (16:30)

Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Tara Palmeri (16:32)

To be clear, we haven't even seen the files. Those are just. Yeah, those are just emails from the estate. So who knows? Maybe he's in the files, but he's in the emails, that's for sure.

Interviewer (16:42)

Yeah, yeah. No, it seems, I Mean, he's in them quite a bit. It seems like they were very close. And what was it that you were. Because you. You've been working on a story that involved him. You want to share a little about.

Tara Palmeri (16:56)

That, one of his followers, like, well, first of all, here's what I. I was reading the New York Times, and I saw Sean Creech's piece on what to make of Jeffrey Epstein's emails and all the men that were continuing to stay in contact with him. And one little nugget in there was that Michael Wolf planned to buy the New York Times. I'm sorry, the New York magazine, very influential magazine in New York with Harvey Weinstein and Jeffrey Epstein and Morton Zuckerman, who owned the New York Daily News. They put in a bid together. And I was flabbergasted because I thought to myself, what if Jeffrey Epstein owned New York magazine? Would he have even gone back to jail? Because that's a pretty big deal that to be a power broker, would he be alive today? You know, Harvey Weinstein, too? Would Harvey Weinstein ever have faced justice? Or would he have used that powerful perch as an owner of a magazine to bully any of his enemies or women who would accuse him from coming out? So I was just in shock. And then it also made me think to myself, like, Michael, you're interviewing him as a journalist. What are you doing taking his money? That's a hard line in journalism where you don't take money. And it was already bad enough that all these emails came out showing that he was giving a pedophile public relations advice on how to improve his image, saying that he could manipulate his relationship with Trump and say he's just a victim of, like, culture, basically, of cancellation culture. And it's just like, it was shocking to me how close they were. But a financial entanglement is even worse. I wrote a piece about it, and then I did some more research, and it was reported by the Nieman Lab at the time that they did, in fact, try to make this bid. It wasn't just the New York Times reported it, and it was in 2003. And then also, you know, I spoke to some people who were involved in the deal, and they said that Michael was the one who brought them, brought Weinstein and Epstein in. And actually, the buyers didn't want the deal because they thought that the people that are involved are too disreputable. Like, that's a huge deal. So, I mean, I was just flabbergasted. And I'm also wondering, like, why is he Sitting on these tapes still, he says that nobody wants them. Like independent media, like you can just publish everything yourself now. Nobody wants them either. I just don't think he's gotten a deal, the offer that he wants. But that's my personal opinion. I don't know that for the fact, but I've got a feeling that, like, once he gets the right offer, he'll put it out. And, you know, I make a broader point that like a portrait artist, which is how I would describe Michael Wolfe as a. As a writer, often they're painting pictures of themselves. And a lot of people have said that even in his profile, in his book about Rupert Murdoch, that, you know, he was really very, very similar to Rupert Murdoch. And even the way he handled me was very Trumpian, you know, like having his lawyer contact me and all. I was just like, wow. So, I don't know, listen, it's not a good look for the business. I would never take money from someone that I was reporting on. And I think, though, like, Michael Wolf fancied himself a media mogul himself, you know what I mean? He wanted to be like Rupert Murdoch, Roger Ailes. He wanted to be like the people that he was covering. That's why he wanted to own the New York magazine. So I.

Interviewer (20:42)

Well, and I think it just really goes to show that at a certain level of wealth and power, that no matter where people present themselves, that they're all very, very similar. You know, I mean, Michael Wolf publicly has positioned himself as being someone who publishes and writes and says very damning things about the Trump administration. But at the end of the day, he just wants to be a wealthy mogul who harasses and bullies people to try and get what he wants.

Tara Palmeri (21:11)

Yeah, yeah, it was really bizarre too. He, like, attacked me in a post because I reached out to him when a coincidentally a one of his followers reached out to me and said that she felt that she was being groomed by him in private messages. And those were her words, not mine. And I just reached out with the messages and said, are these true? Are these you? And he said, they're not me. And I was like, okay, fine, I won't write about it. But, like, that wasn't enough for him. He had to, like, go above and beyond and, like, have the lawyer call. And, like, it was just so trumpy. And I was like, I'm not reporting it. I wasn't planning to. If it's not hurt, I'm not going to, like, I decide what is ready for publication. Like, I'm Not. I'm. I'm really serious about my reputation, and, like, I would never report anything that wasn't accurate. If you deny it and you say it's not, you. And I go back and do additional reporting, and I can't verify it. I don't report it.

Interviewer (22:05)

Right. Basic due diligence.

Tara Palmeri (22:06)

The lawyer contacted me. I'm like, I've already published the piece. Like, I'm not writing about it. You know what I mean? It was just to, like, it was just to bully me. And I just. I was like, I just got such bad vibes about it, so it's kind of gross. And then he. He. Then he wrote about it himself, and I was like, michael, it's called journalism. You ask somebody if it's true or not, and then you decide based on your own reporting what the story is.

Interviewer (22:30)

Right. Well, I mean, based on 10 minutes.

Tara Palmeri (22:33)

Of talking to my publish, and it was. Had nothing, and it did not include anything about the allegations. It's just like, he just wanted to. And the lawyer called me hours later. I'm like, did you guys even, like, look up my work? You're just doing. Bullying me. Which is very, very Trumpian. And I don't know, again, this is like a portrait artist who is drawn to men that are probably not. Are probably like himself in a lot of ways. So I don't know him personally, so that's, you know, that's just my observation based on what I've seen and heard from people who know him personally. But I think if he has information on Jeffrey Epstein that he's been sitting on in the form of these tapes, like, he should just put them out in the public interest. Because ultimately, like, as journalists, our calling is supposed to be for the public interest above all else in public service. I mean, that's how I look at it. I don't look at it as like, this, like, fun access game to, like, rich guys who can give you money to own, become more powerful.

Interviewer (23:39)

Right, right. Or you give them advice on how to rehab their image or even what we. I mean, not that he's a journalist, but, you know, Steve Bannon, when he was talking with Epstein, you know, a lot of that conversation is, you know, how do I look on tv? How. How do I present myself? How do I message? And. And Wolf was doing a lot of that with Epstein as well. You know, like, hey, here's. Here's how you can look better.

Tara Palmeri (24:01)

He want. He knew he was a sex offender.

Interviewer (24:03)

Right, right. Well, and you said the. The initial bid was in 2003.

Tara Palmeri (24:08)

Yeah, it was before he went to prison.

Interviewer (24:10)

Yeah. So I mean, that's, that seems like a very preemptive measure of, you know, I'm doing a lot of really illegal things. Maybe I should find some way to control this narrative before it gets out of hand. And like, like you said, had he made that purchase, he might not have been arrested the first time. He could be a well respected media mogul, right?

Tara Palmeri (24:32)

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I don't know. Well respected, but like, you know, it was also interesting to see in Michael Wolf's unpublished feature about Epstein, which he showed Epstein, like, you're not supposed to do that as a journalist. You're never supposed to your work before publication.

Interviewer (24:49)

I was, I was just reading through that actually.

Tara Palmeri (24:52)

Yeah, he sort of didn't, he didn't like refer to the girls as underage. He was sort of like very, like in passing, you know, these beautiful girls are hanging out. He didn't see anything wrong with it. I mean, I don't know. It's just very every, like, from what I know, from spending time with Virginia Giuffre and talking to other survivors, like, it was pretty clear if you spent any time with Jeffrey Epstein, that there was something weird going on there. Old man, young girls, every, A lot of them naked, hanging around the house, like. Right. Was not something you could look past. So. Yeah, that's my, yeah, my, my. Just my thoughts. But it's all a part of the power that Epstein crave. Like, he wanted power in academia, he wanted power in science, Silicon Valley. He wanted power in tech. You know, he wanted power in politics. He wanted power in every facet of life, including media. And I think he saw Wolf as a conduit to that. Yeah.

Interviewer (25:55)

And I mean, we saw little glimpses of conduits. You know, he developed a relationship with Lawrence Cross, who was well respected in academia before his sexual harassment allegations. You know, Trump, we see him determining, you know, whether he can buddy up with him again or use him as black web back, use blackmail against him or just invite him to Thanksgiving dinner. Yeah, it seems like the, there were tentacles, for lack of a better term, just being put in all these different spheres of power and influence.

Tara Palmeri (26:26)

Absolutely.

Interviewer (26:29)

Well, I know we ran a little late and now we're running a little late, and I, I'm sure you got some stuff, some stories you're working on, so I'll go ahead and wrap it up. But Tara, thank you so much for taking the time to, to come and talk with me and hopefully we can do this again soon.

Tara Palmeri (26:47)

Thanks so much. Appreciate it. Bye.

Interviewer (26:49)

See ya.

Tara Palmeri (26:50)

That was another episode of the Tara Palmeri Show. Thanks so much for tuning in. If you like the show, please follow subscribe Rate It Share it with all of your friends I want to invite you to sign up for my newsletter, the Red Letter by going to tarapalmieri.com it's how you can get my exclusive reporting straight to your inbox. And it's a way to support my independent journalism. Keep me going as I keep investigating. And I want to thank my producer Eric Abenate, my researcher Abby Baker, and Adam Stewart on the graphics. See you again this week.

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Interviewer (27:52)

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