Virginia Giuffre Exposes the Brutality of Epstein’s World

Summary

Podcast Summary: Virginia Giuffre Exposes the Brutality of Epstein’s World

The Tara Palmeri Show – October 23, 2025
Host: Tara Palmeri
Guest: Victoria Ward

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Main Theme

This episode is a deep, empathetic, and unvarnished exploration of Virginia Giuffre’s life, her harrowing experiences as a survivor of Jeffrey Epstein’s abuse, and the persistent cycles of trauma she endured. Tara Palmeri and co-host Victoria Ward discuss Giuffre’s new memoir, reflecting on its power, the consuming darkness of Epstein’s world, and the struggle for public recognition and justice. The conversation also reckons with the personal toll such reporting takes and the broader societal failures that enable such abuse to continue unchallenged.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Shape of Virginia Giuffre’s Story

• Cycle of Abuse: Tara contextualizes Virginia’s life, highlighting how early abuse made her vulnerable (“She was molested by her father from young—six, I read. She was homeless by 14. She was trafficked at 11.” – Tara, [04:01]). The hosts stress that such backgrounds breed normalized chaos, making escape and disclosure extraordinarily difficult.
• Victim Blaming: The hosts reject simplistic questions about why survivors don't immediately go to the police, explaining how deep trauma and ongoing abuse fundamentally warp a victim’s perception of what is “normal.”
• Persistent Tragedy: The memoir is noted as relentless—a story without a “redemption arc,” making it all the more unusual and hard-hitting ([06:42]).

2. The Memoir’s Emotional Impact & Style

• Humanity Amid Cruelty: Despite chronic adversity, Virginia’s memoir is marked by extraordinary gentleness toward the reader and others (“No matter how much cruelty came upon this girl... she still has so much kindness for strangers…” – Victoria, [05:25]).
• Breaking the Fourth Wall: The authors note Virginia’s empathetic writing style, where she anticipates the emotional exhaustion of the reader and builds connection.
• Relatability Limits: Tara considers if anyone can “see themselves” in such an unremittingly dark story ([06:21]).

3. Naming Names, Seeking Validation, and the Limits of Justice

• Anonymous Perpetrators: The difficulty of holding specific powerful abusers to account is discussed. While the memoir references well-known UK politicians, none are named due to legal and publishing fears ([07:23]).
• Validation > Evidence: Survivors desire acknowledgment and validation, more than fresh evidence. “Mostly I wanted validation... just to have someone say, ‘I saw that happen to you.’” (Tara quoting Virginia, [10:12]).
• Community of Survivors: Other victims confirmed Virginia’s accounts (notably Joanna Schoberg), but crucial third-party validation from the men in Epstein's world remained elusive ([13:36]). Attempts to get admissions from employees met with stonewalling or half-truths ([11:47]).

4. Unending Trauma, Health, and Speculation

• Physical and Mental Toll: Virginia’s mental and physical health was radically compromised by ongoing, cumulative trauma. Her hopes for a normal family were repeatedly dashed by violence and illness ([17:07]).
• Online Speculation: Hostility and speculation about her death misunderstand the depth of trauma-induced suffering (“If you don’t get how that would cause... demons and nightmares... what?” – Tara, [16:29]).
• Estranged Family & Children: Discussion of concerns about Virginia’s estranged husband and her children, who are now the focus of her estate ([28:27]).

5. Challenges of Reporting and Bearing Witness

• Emotional Drain: Tara admits the cost of chronicling such dark material: “It’s really dark. It’s really, really dark.” ([19:18]).
• Journalistic Duty: Yet she feels a mission to keep reporting amid public interest and continuing uncovering of corruption ([19:31]).

6. Societal and Political Reckonings

• Slow Justice: The hosts express frustration at the limited consequences for powerful abusers in the US, contrasting this with higher-profile losses in the UK such as Prince Andrew ([27:35]).
• Public’s Role: Renewed public interest, especially around potential releases of Epstein-related files, is seen as crucial in pushing the story forward, even as institutions resist ([20:26]).

7. The Psychology of Abuse & Survival

• Why Return? The hosts unpack why victims like Virginia sometimes revisit their abusers—not out of complicity, but seeking love, structure, or the fulfillment of “normal” promises—never delivered elsewhere ([23:59]).
• Forgiveness and Empathy: Despite everything, Virginia’s capacity for empathy, even toward her abusers, is highlighted (“She assumed maybe Epstein was molested as a child. She almost had sympathy for him…” – Tara, [27:03]).

8. Broader Reflections

• Journalists’ Responsibility: Both Tara and Victoria reflect on the burden of being “amplifiers” for survivors’ stories, holding the line for truth and justice in a hostile environment ([18:21], [21:06]).
• Resistance to Change: Discussion of the inertia in political and social systems that enables cycles of abuse to continue.
• Touching Personal Moments: The tone remains supportive and caring, with hosts sharing personal anecdotes about coping with the darkness of their work.

9. Lighter Moments and Side Discussions

• Light-Hearted Interludes: The conversation is punctuated by friendly banter about pets, Halloween costumes, and upcoming projects, adding moments of levity and humanity ([42:34] onward).
• Shift in American–European Diplomacy: Victoria brings up her interactions with EU officials and the shift towards engaging American audiences directly, offering a meta-reflection on the changing role of journalists ([36:21]).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the cycles of abuse:
  “This is a girl who was broken, really. And when she was trying to clean up her life at 16... who comes along? Ghislaine Maxwell. Always looking for the thing that these broken girls needed and promising it to them.”
  — Tara Palmeri, [04:01]

• On seeking validation:
  “I just wanted to hear Lang confirm my experience. He could have said something as simple as, ‘I saw that happen to you because I was there,’ and that would have helped me heal. Mostly I wanted validation. Clearly, though, I wasn't going to get it from Lang.”
  — Virginia Giuffre (as quoted by Tara Palmeri), [10:12]

• Empathy toward abusers:
  “She actually said she assumed maybe Jeffrey Epstein was molested himself as a child. And she almost had, like, sympathy for him.”
  — Tara Palmeri, [27:03]

• On the personal toll of reporting:
  “It's really dark. It’s really, really dark. But I think I have more of a mission in the sense that it feels like there’s a lot of corruption going on. The fact that they're saying there's nothing more there—and I know that there is.”
  — Tara Palmeri, [19:18–19:31]

• On why survivors stay or return:
  “She actually wanted Epstein’s love...and the moments when Ghislaine Maxwell was sweet to her and treated her like a daughter...her own mother...started whipping her with thorns. So this was someone who was so abused...she just needed love.”
  — Tara Palmeri, [23:59]

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Noteworthy Timestamps

• Virginia’s background & early abuse: [04:01] – [05:25]
• Discussion of book’s empathetic style: [05:25] – [06:21]
• Why the memoir doesn’t “name names”: [07:23] – [09:39]
• On seeking validation, not just evidence: [10:06] – [11:47]
• Survivors vs. bystanders in validation: [13:36] – [15:44]
• Physical and mental consequences: [17:02] – [17:41]
• The journalism mission & darkness: [18:21] – [19:31]
• Empathy even for abusers: [27:03]
• Children & legacy of the abused: [28:27]
• Why survivors speak out: [29:06] – [30:28]
• Walter Cronkite and the Lolita Express: [31:00] – [34:00]
• Moments of levity and personal reflection: [42:34] – end

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Tone, Language, and Atmosphere

The conversation remains empathetic and candid, balancing investigative seriousness with personal warmth and flashes of humor. Both hosts resist sensationalism, centering the humanity of survivors amid overwhelming darkness. There’s a sense of urgency—both to secure justice and to understand how society and journalism can better serve the vulnerable.

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For New Listeners

This episode offers a rich, intimate entry point into the real, ongoing costs of sexual abuse by the powerful, as well as the moral complexities—and burdens—of uncovering these stories. It’s a must-listen for anyone seeking to understand the human consequences of abuse, the courage required to pursue the truth, and what real solidarity with survivors looks like.

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For further reading, Tara references her Substack and a New York Magazine piece for more scenes from her reporting journey.

Transcript

[Tara Palmeri]

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[Victoria Ward]

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[Tara Palmeri]

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[Victoria Ward]

We'Re here.

[Tara Palmeri]

You didn't have to look up my nose while that happened.

[Victoria Ward]

No, it was great. Oh, Katie Couric is here. Hey, girl. What's going on? I feel so self conscious now. I'm like, oh, my God now.

[Tara Palmeri]

And of course, again, my phone is. This is. This is outrageous. I'm really sorry to everyone.

[Victoria Ward]

It's okay. We're going to get it figured out, and then it's. People are just coming in the room messy. Cut this in post. Yeah, we're cutting this in post.

[Tara Palmeri]

I'm gonna be honest, honestly, I haven't slept much. This has been a really, like, intense. I've been trying to read Virginia's book, too. Like, I have. All right, I'm holding it up. This is it. Wait, wait. Switch it around. There we go.

[Victoria Ward]

There she is. All right, we're holding it. We're done and we're holding it.

[Tara Palmeri]

I saw the situation ship. I'm living in my house.

[Victoria Ward]

Oh, my God. With all the equipment. I know.

[Tara Palmeri]

Let's do a tour without a sad.

[Victoria Ward]

Look at how messy.

[Tara Palmeri]

Just.

[Victoria Ward]

It's like you only see this part of me, and you're good, right? But you see the rest of this office. Oh, before we do this, do you guys want to see a fun sneak peek thing while. So we have one happy moment with Tara ever in our life? Because we always have her on to talk about the saddest things.

[Tara Palmeri]

Yes.

[Victoria Ward]

So I have a new YouTube show that's starting in January. And look, I found, like, a mini Resolute desk.

[Tara Palmeri]

Oh, my God, it's so cool.

[Victoria Ward]

Where did you find that worth seven doll hairs at the Goodwill. And then I got, like, new banners and stuff, so we'll be cool.

[Tara Palmeri]

Of course you would find something like that at the Goodwill.

[Victoria Ward]

It's Rochester, man.

[Tara Palmeri]

Right past it.

[Victoria Ward]

And I know it's Rochester, man. You can get all kinds of cool stuff here.

[Tara Palmeri]

All right, can I show you who's right under the desk as I'm doing the news?

[Victoria Ward]

Look at that. Oh, it's a puppy. Hi.

[Tara Palmeri]

Don't you guess? Pancetta always underneath me, trying to get me to pay more attention to her than what I'm talking about.

[Victoria Ward]

Did you name your dog Pancetta, You Jersey Girl?

[Tara Palmeri]

I didn't, actually. She was. That was her name. And then when she walked up to me and I adopted her, I was like, are you joking? The dog's name is Aunt Cheddar. Pancetta Palmeri.

[Victoria Ward]

That's so cute.

[Tara Palmeri]

We're meant to be.

[Victoria Ward]

So, Chetta, do you call her Cheddar or Panty?

[Tara Palmeri]

Pantchetta. Yeah. So I call her Pantula. I don't like her pants. I know that's very bizarre, but she's my. She's my sidekick. I used to take her on reporting journeys when she was really little. Actually, I took her on part of the broken Jeffrey Epstein reporting journey with me. Because she was so little, I didn't want to leave her with some.

[Victoria Ward]

What are her thoughts on Virginia Giuffre's book then? Because this has been a long journey for Pancetta as well.

[Tara Palmeri]

Yeah, she's been seeking justice for a long time. Well, actually, Virginia met Pancetta, and I think she'd be really proud of her.

[Victoria Ward]

Yeah.

[Tara Palmeri]

You know, they were both kind of like rescues.

[Victoria Ward]

Yeah.

[Tara Palmeri]

If you read. If you read Virginia's book, I mean, it's a really beautiful book, and I think it really captures her essence. And I haven't gotten through all of it, but I know that it really shows you that she grew up into. She grew up into a situation that made her really vulnerable to be prey to someone like Glenn Maxwell. When so many people say, well, if you were abused, why don't you just get up and go straight to the police and tell them exactly what happened to you? And it's like this girl was molested by her father from Young six, something I read.

[Victoria Ward]

Yeah.

[Tara Palmeri]

She was homeless by the time she was 14. She was trafficked in as a. Like, 11 years old. I mean, this is not a healthy situation. This is a girl who was broken, really. And when she was trying to really clean up her life at 16, she goes and works at Mar a Lago, gets a job as a masseuse, is reading a book about how to become a masseuse. And who comes along? Ghislaine Maxwell. Always looking for the thing that these broken girls needed and promising it to them. And she said, I will teach you how to be a masseuse. You will have a wealthy man to be the client, and you'll travel with him. And later that night, she shows up at his house and she is just met with more abuse. Um, Virginia's life is heartbreaking. It's like she never got a Break. She really never did. And then afterwards, her husband. She's landing into the arms of another man who abused her. I didn't know that at the time. And I don't think she wanted people to know that she struggled with it at home. But it's so obvious. The cycle of abuse that happens to people, it just doesn't end. Their boundaries aren't great. They think they're confused about what's going on.

[Victoria Ward]

It's normal to them. You know, it's like normal. When you're accustomed to abuse and chaos, you're like, oh, it just. It doesn't strike you as off because it's what you've known. And that's some of the hardest part of it. I haven't read the whole book yet, but something I really appreciate about her writing is no matter how much cruelty came upon this girl, and truly, I can't think of anyone who really lived such a cruel life in modern times that I can compare this to. But she still has so much kindness for strangers and for the people who are going to care about her story or to try and get justice. Like breaking the fourth wall, saying, wow, that's a lot. Let's take a break. Like, the way she writes the book is so thoughtful to the people that are reading it in a way that you don't typically get from an author, where they speak to the audience in a way. And I just think so, so interesting.

[Tara Palmeri]

Trauma bucket is like, my bucket. It's a fucking swimming pool.

[Victoria Ward]

Yeah.

[Tara Palmeri]

Like, it's a lot for everyday people. I mean, I always thought this. I was like, you know, the best memoirs are often the one. Are the ones where you can see yourself in the memoir. And I'm like, how many people are going to really be able to see themselves in this story? Because it is so dark, so unusual. I wasn't sure if it could ever really, truly be scripted. Her story. Because it is so dark.

[Victoria Ward]

Yeah. And because there's no relief. Oftentimes when we hear a terrible story about someone, well, they made it in the end or something broke and they got, like, a redemption arc. And that did not happen to her. The relief that she found, hopefully, was in death. But, you know, that was all very tragic, too.

[Tara Palmeri]

Yeah. It's so sad. I hope that she sees the justice, though, that's happening right now with Prince Andrew. And the number of people who I'm sure are not going to sleep, going to bed and thinking to themselves, when are people gonna realize that I was the person that Virginia wrote about? There's so many more people. And I'm sad that the names aren't in the book, but I can imagine her publishers were nervous.

[Victoria Ward]

Yeah.

[Tara Palmeri]

I mean, just skimming through it. Like, I've heard all these stories from her directly from the time we spent together, and it's horrific. I'm glad that she actually spoke about the brutality of it.

[Victoria Ward]

Well, one of the parts she talks about. And for folks tuning in, this is going to be very difficult. So trigger warnings of the whole thing. If this ain't for you, watch it later when you're home or not at work or wherever. But one of the things she talked about is how brutally she was raped and beaten by a former minister. She called it like a former UK Minister.

[Tara Palmeri]

Prime Minister.

[Victoria Ward]

She said Prime Minister. She said. But then. Well, she said Prime Minister in the US Version or something. But in this book, it goes back and forth between Prime Minister and minister, which means it could have been like an mp and not like, I don't know. But in my. She doesn't name who it is. But I was like, well, maybe I could figure it out. Like, maybe we could just see. Are there any prime ministers or former politicians in the UK who had a history of it? And the list was too long to narrow down. Just in the time I was researching it, there were three mps who were found to have raped their wives, beat their wives, had child abuse material on their phones. And thing. I was like, three already. And we're not even.

[Tara Palmeri]

And we know these are ministers in the uk.

[Victoria Ward]

Yeah. So it's a Tory mp, Andrew Griffiths was convicted of habitually raping and beating his wife. She says was. It's a UK minister.

[Tara Palmeri]

Yeah, okay, got it.

[Victoria Ward]

So she says prime Minister previously. This is the part that I think that the Guardian is also looking into this because she said Prime Minister before. But as like an American, you don't really know the difference between MP or Prime minister. Like, you might say Prime Minister, but meant it was a politician.

[Tara Palmeri]

Well, I know one prime minister that.

[Victoria Ward]

She did that was definitely.

[Tara Palmeri]

Yeah, yeah. This was someone that she was really brutally attacked by multiple times.

[Victoria Ward]

So the thing that was. The thing about her story is that I'm trying to get to is like, even when you try to think, oh, there must just be one person out there, there's like five already that you're like, how could I even narrow this down? There's five of them that did this that you can't even. It's just. It's a lot, man.

[Tara Palmeri]

Her book, her. It was interesting because Amy Wallace, who's The co author of the book said, like, this isn't about naming names.

[Victoria Ward]

Yeah.

[Tara Palmeri]

And, you know, that was what I found from my time with her. And she actually wrote this in her book, which I thought was really beautiful about, you know, the people that we. We went to go see. She wrote about our journey together, actually, in her book, which was really amazing. And.

[Victoria Ward]

Oh, good.

[Tara Palmeri]

Yeah. She said she liked that I didn't care about Jeffrey Epstein, that I only cared about the survivors. And, like, because a lot of people are into the wealth porn part of it. Right? The porn porn part of it.

[Victoria Ward]

Yeah.

[Tara Palmeri]

Or the Scott. Or the spy porn part of it. And I was like, no, this is not about that. This is about helping women find, like, put together pieces of their lives. But when we tried to talk to Adam Perry Lang, who you and I have talked about a lot.

[Victoria Ward]

Yes, Chef.

[Tara Palmeri]

She said about why she wants to talk to him, and she said, of course, I hope that he might have information that could help me hold Epstein's co conspirators accountable. But also, on a purely emotional level, I just wanted to hear Lang confirm my experience. He could have said something as simple as, I saw that happen to you because I was there, and that would have helped me heal. Would I have been thrilled if he handed over incontrovertible evidence? Sure. But I wasn't really expecting that. Mostly I wanted validation. Clearly, though, I wasn't going to get it from Lang. And I think that's what people forget, is that, like, for so many of these survivors, especially women who are attacked by very prominent, famous men who are celebrated. Mm. They just want the community to say, we see you, we hear you. We know this happened to you. Because the denials and the attacks that come afterwards and the fact that the community doesn't stand with them, but rather the celebrated. It's a re. Traumatization, and it's sometimes even worse than the abuse itself.

[Victoria Ward]

He could have very well said, I saw what happened to you. I should have done something. I was afraid of him, too. I'm really sorry when that, like, just. Yeah. Just anything that's. She wasn't looking for, like, reparations from everybody that was surrounding her. Just. Yeah. Like this recognition. Recognizing that what happened was wrong and she's not crazy, like.

[Tara Palmeri]

Exactly. And that's why when we went to Juana Lessi's house, it really meant a lot to her. He was the house manager for two decades. It really meant a lot to her that he let her into the house and was like, oh, yeah, I remember you Virginia like this and that and. And. And like they were old colleagues. But then when she was like, but you saw me naked and you paid me, he just wouldn't acknowledge that part, couldn't handle that. But he would say there were girls in the house and they were young, and that he warned Epstein that he was gonna get in trouble and that's why he lost his job. And so it's like so many, like, the mental gymnastics were crazy. The memorial tightrope he created was something I don't quite understand. I wrote about it in my substack, which you guys can all read. And I wrote about that kind of scene because I'll never forget it in New York magazine and it came out today. But, you know, just what it was like to even just see Virginia on the other side of the couch just taking it all in and, like, her eyes lighting up, thinking that here's somebody who can confirm my story of horrific abuse. But he would only go so far. Yeah, it was like he knew that there had to be boundaries or he was going to get in trouble. And everyone's just covering for themselves.

[Victoria Ward]

Were there other girls who have confirmed her story with her? Like, people who were being abused at the same time that she was able to, like, have some camaraderie with or some sort of, like, community with to get through this? This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Fiscally responsible financial geniuses, monetary magicians. These are things people say about drivers who switch their car insurance to Progressive and save hundreds. Visit progressive.com to see if you could save Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states or situations.

[Tara Palmeri]

Oh, yeah. I mean, the other survivors have confirmed her story. I mean, of course, incredibly helpful for her in her case. Um, Joanna Schoberg. She writes a lot about her. Um, you know, she didn't. She didn't have problems finding women to cooperate. Her story, the problem she had was finding men. And that's why it was so valuable to get these employees at Jeffrey Epstein, who had worked for him, who didn't pass her around like a party favor, these third parties, to say, yeah, this was wrong. And like, the. The pilot who hung up on her mid sentence when we were outside of his house, like, you know, flight logs. She was all over the flight logs. And he could have been so helpful. So much of the depravity happened up in the air on the Lolita Express or his private flight, and, like, you know, her body just, like, recoiled when we passed by the airport. So so much of it. So many of these people could have helped. She really tried. And it takes a lot of courage to knock on someone's door, beg for help. She was constantly reaching out. It makes me sad too, because she writes in the book about, like, how hard it was for her. And I saw just like this strength, like this warrior. She's like, let's keep going. Let's keep going. And I remember calling the producers too, being like, I don't know if we should keep going. It's emotionally exhausting for me. For her, I can only imagine what it's like.

[Victoria Ward]

Yeah.

[Tara Palmeri]

And she wanted to keep going, but then she wrote in her book that she was calling her husband at night, like, really emotional from the whole thing. And maybe she wanted to stay strong for me, which it's like, totally makes me sad. But we ended up like, one of the producers came down, you know, he taught, and we just decided to, like, cut it off. We just decided to stop. We. Juan, though, with the last person we spoke to. And I think it was just really hard for her. But she said to me when we were in the car on the way home, I'm really happy. And I was like, really? She's like, yeah, he, like, he gave me 10%. He acknowledged me. And I. And I was like, really? I'm furious at this guy.

[Victoria Ward]

Yeah.

[Tara Palmeri]

Guy stood by. He drove you home sobbing after the first time you were molested. He could recount the day he saw you outside of Mar a Lago with Glenn Maxwell and he was driving her around. And like, that doesn't make you angry. And. But it took an emotional toll that she tried to keep to herself. And I think, like, it makes me furious when I see in comments, when I see online people pushing the fact that she was murdered. She killed herself. If you don't understand the impact of this type of sexual abuse on a person's mind, it actually changes the brain. It alters your mind, especially when you're young.

[Victoria Ward]

Sure.

[Tara Palmeri]

And repeated trauma like she went through since she was a child.

[Victoria Ward]

Right.

[Tara Palmeri]

If you don't get how that would cause demons and nightmares and mental health issues for the rest of your life, like, right. What?

[Victoria Ward]

Right. Yeah. And she was, as we find out later, still an abusive relationship, even at the end with her husband.

[Tara Palmeri]

The 60 Minute story from Australia is really painful. She accused him of breaking her sternum. You know, that's a hard bone to break.

[Victoria Ward]

Wasn't she also in a car accident a couple weeks before her death? So she said she was in a car accident a couple of weeks Before.

[Tara Palmeri]

Yeah. But her kidneys weren't really working well. And I even remember when we were together that she had some sort of, like, urinary tract infection. And you, like, you know, explicit. But we had to stop to go to a doctor for her. And. Yeah, it's just. It makes sense. It's like, that's the part of the body, like, you know, the sexual organs damaged.

[Victoria Ward]

Yeah.

[Tara Palmeri]

Yeah. And she thought she'd never be able to have children because she miscarried. She doesn't know what happened when she ended up in the hospital and Dean and Galen took her there. Like, did she have to get an abortion?

[Victoria Ward]

We don't know.

[Tara Palmeri]

We don't know. And she doesn't know. But she really believed she'd never have children.

[Victoria Ward]

Yeah.

[Tara Palmeri]

Because of the brutality that she went to through her inner organs. And, like, that's what she was told. Could you imagine?

[Victoria Ward]

Meanwhile, your abuser is trying to get you to be a surrogate for him and Ghislaine, like, it's just the weirdest shit. This, this. I don't know how you have done this, covered this for so as many years as you have had the friendship that you had with Virginia and continue to, as you say, like, this drip, drip, drip comes out. It's like the ghosts that you carry also and now are, I'm sorry, but, like, kind of responsible for, like, you, Julie K. Brown, Amy Wallace, or Victoria Ward. It's like, holding this legacy. What is that?

[Tara Palmeri]

Like, I don't know that it's ne. Thank you for saying that. I don't know that I have any. Like, I'm proud to tell the story for them, but, like, it's not my story, it's theirs.

[Victoria Ward]

Not that it's your story, but that you're able to bring it to the people, like, be an amplifier for them and a fighter.

[Tara Palmeri]

You know, it's interesting cause, like, I wrote a piece during the Biden years about it and a magazine piece, and it took me, like, five or six months to get it published. And, like, you know, there just stopped being a lot of interest in Jeffrey Epstein stories. I did two podcasts on it, and then the Pam Bondi stuff that happened in Dubai, it just re. Reignited the piece, the case. But even before that, like, one week before, I went on the Daily Beast show with Joanna Coles, and. And she's, like, asking me, and somehow we ended up in Epstein, and she's like, wow, you know a lot about that. Like, why wouldn't you just write about Jeffrey Epstein all the time? And I Was like, well, it's really dark. It's really, really dark.

[Victoria Ward]

And.

[Tara Palmeri]

But I think I have like more of a mission in the sense that it feels really like there's like a lot of corruption going on. The fact that they're saying there's nothing more there. And I know that there is.

[Victoria Ward]

Yeah.

[Tara Palmeri]

And the public cares. The public cares again. And they're driving this. Their interest drives it. It's not just me. And I, I feel like this is what Virginia would have wanted. I mean, I spoke to her in February and I went on TV to like speak for her at one point, you know, during the Pam Bondi circus around the classified documents, because those were just her documents, her depositions and they, they slapped the words classified on them and that she was like, this is a circus. She thought, she thought President Trump was going to actually release the Epstein files like you promised. She was so hopeful.

[Victoria Ward]

Well, there were a lot of people who, you know, even testified on the Hill and they were like, I voted for Trump because he promised he would release the Epstein files. Or I believed that the Republicans were the ones who seemed to be the most interested in this. This has got to be just killer. Killer.

[Tara Palmeri]

Yeah. And so that was, that was definitely, it was definitely, like hard for her, I think, to lose that hope. She was not happy when I saw her. I mean, when I spoke to her, she was very, very depressed. And I actually said, you should go see your family. I was like, you need to come to the U.S. like, come to New York. I said, like, go to Colorado, spend time with your family. You can't be out in this ranch by herself. I mean, she had to help her because her, her health was so bad. She needed someone to help her. She was, her health was just really failing. I don't think people really quite understand that, you know, the body keeps the score.

[Victoria Ward]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Tara Palmeri]

She had probably like the body of an 80 year old woman and a 40 year old body.

[Victoria Ward]

Right.

[Tara Palmeri]

And so, yeah, I just feel like I'm sad that this is all coming out and wouldn't be alive to see the impact. Because for once, like that was the other part of the book that really made me sad, was like she said, like, I'm really tired from telling my story over and over again. Like it's a re traumatization. And there's a part of me that wishes that like, she didn't have to, but at the same time she said, like, but for so many years I told my story and people didn't believe me and listen. And finally there Were people that were like, yeah, Virginia, we hear you. We see you. And they're journalists, and they're the world. And she felt like we. Well, finally, people are listening to me, so I don't want to stop. What if they stop? What if it goes back to the way it was before, when everyone was calling me a teen prostitute and a liar?

[Victoria Ward]

Yeah.

[Tara Palmeri]

So she wanted to keep going, and she did it because she believed victims refused silence. That was the name of her. Of her nonprofit. But she pushed herself too hard and. Yeah, she pushed herself too hard and. But I think if you read this book, you're going to see her essence. You really will. You'll see how hopeful and wonderful she was. Her eyes so bright and wide, and how she really looked out to everyone and saw beauty where I saw so much darkness when I was doing that story with her. Like, she believed in the blue butterfly. I'm not entirely sure what that means, but she loved the blue butterfly. And we took a picture in front of one of them on our journey, and it was just all. It was randomly, like, graffiti down to the wall. And I don't know. I just felt like it was such a. How do. How do people who have been through so much. Like, you know, you hear these stories of people who were in concentration camps. Yeah, they'll live lives.

[Victoria Ward]

They wrote music in there. Yeah, they did. Yeah.

[Tara Palmeri]

They can still see. See beauty. And I just felt profound sadness. Like, I felt like she was keeping me together. I remember one time she starts playing, like, let it go in the car while we were driving. Cause I was just like. From that. That Frozen movie. Cause I was like, horrible.

[Victoria Ward]

Yeah, it is.

[Tara Palmeri]

I'm like, I'm failing everybody, too. I'm failing her. I'm failing the team in New York. I'm failing everybody. This is horrible. These people are terrible. No, there's no. There are no better angels in this world. Like, what is going on here? And she's just like, let me play a Disney song. It'll help you get through it. And I was like, God, to have that relentless optimism. But it wasn't like, it wasn't all the time. And, like, I think, you know, that's something people forget, is that you cannot keep that up forever. Like, this is not Come back. They really do. And I think you'll. I also think for again, all the people who say, why did she go back? Why did she go back? You'll see. She actually wanted Epstein's love.

[Victoria Ward]

Yeah.

[Tara Palmeri]

And the moments when Galen Maxwell was sweet to her and treated her like Like a daughter figure. Like a daughter, you know, going and helping, picking seashells with her. You have to understand, her own mother, after her mother thought that she was being sexually abused by her father, started whipping her with like thorned with thorns. So it's like this was someone who was so abused, right? And she just needed love. Like that was all she needed. And she was looked for it wherever she could get it. She. And I don't think she understood the boundaries of, like, who was the right person to give it to her and who wasn't.

[Victoria Ward]

Well, how could you when the promise that your parents make you is that they'll love you and keep you safe. And that promise was broken from day one. So Jeffrey Epstein promised to make her a massage therapist. Why give up on that yet? I mean, maybe it will. Like, if you don't, it's understandable that she would have some sort of. Because, like, you, you've written about this before. It wasn't all bad all the time. Even though it was all bad all the time, there were times in which she met people that she liked to talk to, or Adam Perry Lang would make her a little sandwich or something, or she felt comradery with the other workers, or even in the worst possible situations, there are little pockets of joy. And those moments, if that's all you know, is like. Well, you know, it wasn't. Sometimes it was good or sometimes they were nice to me. Like, G Max collected seashells with me. I can't believe they made reading that Ghislaine Maxwell made the girls call her G Max.

[Tara Palmeri]

It's like T pain.

[Victoria Ward]

What a fucking cringe. Weird thing to do.

[Tara Palmeri]

Like, it's like G spot. I don't know. Yeah, something dirty G Max.

[Victoria Ward]

Like, oh, like so cool. Like so hip.

[Tara Palmeri]

Like here I was going to like a dark, dark sexual place. But yeah, no, she's. She's a sicko.

[Victoria Ward]

She is. Do you think that this book prevents her from getting a pardon or commutation of sentence? More. Do you think that this sort of helps not. Or do you think that Trump doesn't care and might do it anyway?

[Tara Palmeri]

I think Trump doesn't care, but I.

[Victoria Ward]

Know we're talking about Diddy maybe this week getting a pardon.

[Tara Palmeri]

I know, but this book, if it becomes the bestseller, which I know it will be.

[Victoria Ward]

Mm.

[Tara Palmeri]

And it's red, like. And people really understand who Virginia is. Cause it's like to know her is impossible not to really love her. She's incredibly charismatic person. Um. And they don't see it through the eyes. Of a girl and understand, like, even just looking at the pictures of her. I mean, she's 16, 17, when she was with them. Chuck's incredibly young. They liked that she was thin and looked like a child. Had no breasts, had no curves. Like that was what Jeffrey Epstein wanted. You know what I found really profound? She actually said she assumed that maybe Jeffrey Epstein was molested himself as a child.

[Victoria Ward]

Oh, maybe.

[Tara Palmeri]

And she almost saw she had, like, sympathy for him. Yeah.

[Victoria Ward]

Wow.

[Tara Palmeri]

Isn't that crazy? I mean, not crazy, but it's like the capacity for her ability to, like, to forgive in a way or to find or at least to be empathetic. I think that this book will move people on this subject even more in the favor of the survivors and will demand more justice and will demand. And will make people. You know, it will make it more despicable that the vote has not been held to, you know, just the effort.

[Victoria Ward]

To block this right now is.

[Tara Palmeri]

Yeah. To get that discharge petition on the floor or that. To pass the discharge petition which would put the vote on the floor. I think more people will. Will be angry. Why is it that only in the UK two people have lost their jobs because of Virginia's. Because of their connections to Epstein so far.

[Victoria Ward]

Right.

[Tara Palmeri]

Mandelson, the UK ambassador.

[Victoria Ward]

Yeah. And Prince Andrew.

[Tara Palmeri]

Right. I mean, sure, there are some bankers that have gone down in disgrace, but it's not quite.

[Victoria Ward]

A lot of these people died never being caught either. These were old people doing this.

[Tara Palmeri]

Do you have bad reputations, too?

[Victoria Ward]

Yeah. Do you think, like, how old are her children right now? Do you think, like, folks are asking, are her kids okay now? Like, is there a beneficiary? Will her children benefit from this book? Like, are they safe?

[Tara Palmeri]

Yeah, her children are going to be okay. I think there's more of a concern about her estranged husband, Robbie, and how much money he'll get from the estate. Because, you know, obviously, since he caused her so much pain, the family does not want him to be a beneficiary of the estate. They just want all the money to go to the children.

[Victoria Ward]

Right.

[Tara Palmeri]

And so that's important. She had three of them. A little girl. Well, she's now 12, I think, or 13, so.

[Victoria Ward]

Okay.

[Tara Palmeri]

And, you know, they were her world. And I think being separated from them was really, really, really hard for her.

[Victoria Ward]

Yeah. You can't be alone like that with your thoughts. And all of this.

[Tara Palmeri]

Yeah.

[Victoria Ward]

All of this darkness and unknownness.

[Tara Palmeri]

I mean, that was. That was how she got the courage to say something was like, when she saw her. Her daughter and she thought, my God, I have to protect little girls like this. Because she didn't look in the mirror and see herself as someone worthy of protection. None of these girls really did. That was the one thing I kept seeing over and over again. Like, they never saw themselves as people worthy of protection. Because, like you said, they weren't protected by the people that were supposed to. Their parents, Right? Yeah. So they were just like, this is how you're treated in the world. And then they finally got the courage to come forward and tell their stories when they started to read the stories of their friends. And actually, one of the prosecutors, Marie Deofagna, who was the lead prosecutor under Alex Acosta, she understood that, and she put the deposition of one of Jane Doe one's friend on her desk. I mean, on her doorstep. Excuse me. Of Jane Doe 1. Just to show her, like, this is what your friends had happened to her. And that's when she woke up and said, you know what? I'm gonna speak to the prosecutor. Cause she was avoiding the prosecutor. Cause Epstein told her she was a teenage prostitute. And that she was the one who was in trouble when the police were coming for her or the FBI agents. And that she needed a lawyer and that Epstein would pay for her lawyer. And then when she saw that, she opened up the phone book and she found a lawyer for herself.

[Victoria Ward]

Yeah.

[Tara Palmeri]

Not Epstein's lawyer.

[Victoria Ward]

He just, like, the perfect predator that he was. And knowing, like, so well how to fuck up all these people is insane.

[Tara Palmeri]

Yeah.

[Victoria Ward]

We talked this week about Walter Cronkite being on one of the flight manifests. He would have been 90, almost 91 years old when that happened. And also on that flight was Epstein's Russian bodyguard. And Larry, one of the chefs.

[Tara Palmeri]

Was it Igor Zinoviev?

[Victoria Ward]

Igor was on this? Yeah. And Lance or Larry, one of the shit. Not Alex. Larry Vasoski or Larry C. Something. He was the chef. He was one of his private chefs. And someone else. And J.P. was the other one. I was like, J.P. j.P. Morgan. But no, J.P. morgan died in 1913. But this is where my Walter Paulson or something could be. But it just said JP and then Walter Cronkite.

[Tara Palmeri]

John Paulson could have been.

[Victoria Ward]

But people were like, walter Cronkite was on the Lolita Express. And I'm like, maybe, maybe not. Maybe somebody wrote Walter Cronkite as the name. Maybe it was his son. Maybe it was.

[Tara Palmeri]

Do that on a flight manifest.

[Victoria Ward]

You can't. So then I'm like, I don't know. He was, you Know, Walter Cronkite used to date this famous soprano who was very involved with Juilliard and Epstein. So it's like, you know, could have been just one of the normies that got caught up in helping because there's so many people who were like normie people that Epstein was around that made it seem like all the dark stuff he was doing was normal. Like P. Diddy's white parties. People who were there during the day but left at 9, knew something happened after 9, should have talked about it but didn't, weren't there for it. Like, I do Wonder what a 90 year old Walter Cronkite was doing on the Lowland Express. Like why a terminally ill elderly man was on this flight.

[Tara Palmeri]

But I don't have any reporting, but that is.

[Victoria Ward]

I know he had never been pictured with him before. He had never been an investor of his before. He was dating the heiress to Simon and Schuster. Simon and Schuster's CEO was involved with Epstein. So as far as I've got it so far, I'm like, look, I've just got a bunch of conspiracies and maybe this is the way he came to be on this flight. But I don't know that he did anything or knew what he was doing, but certainly would have known. And it was 2007, so I guess it was before the first arrest. But yeah, he was notorious in New York City by that point though. That's the thing. The first arrest came in 2008. People knew this guy was a creep from the 90s on.

[Tara Palmeri]

Yeah, and what year was Walt Cronkite on The Walter Cronkite?

[Victoria Ward]

2007.

[Tara Palmeri]

Okay, so right before he went to prison, I mean, it's hard. It was hard also when you get on that flight, if you ever saw the stewardesses, they were like barely could. Yeah, you should look that up. It was called the Lolita Express. He was about his lifestyle. He bragged about it.

[Victoria Ward]

Yeah, just nutso stuff.

[Tara Palmeri]

I think people forget that when you become a really famous news anchor, you kind of lose touch with the rest of the.

[Victoria Ward]

Yeah, yeah, well. And CBS is in a weird spot now, so, I mean, I don't know. Don't meet your heroes maybe. We'll see. I had to change my substack bio because the New York Times once called me the Walter Cronkite of Gen Z. And I was like, oh, we got to take that out now. There's no, there's none of that now. That might not mean the same thing.

[Tara Palmeri]

I'm sorry. Because no one Is. Yeah.

[Victoria Ward]

No one. First of all, I was like, that's a crazy thing to say about a person. Like, that doesn't even make sense.

[Tara Palmeri]

What you've done is amazing. I'm.

[Victoria Ward]

I'm going on. Dude, please. I just started talking to people because I felt like they were being talked to bad. What you've done is amazing. Everybody's doing amazing shit. Nobody needs to be the male version of, like, what it is now to be what they are. I'm just the Vsphere of Vsphere. You're just the Tara Palmary of Tara Palmers. None of us are the Walter Cronkite of anything goofs. Oh, man. Tara, what are we gonna do? Like, what are we gonna do? Your audio is out now.

[Tara Palmeri]

Oh, no.

[Victoria Ward]

There you go.

[Tara Palmeri]

I'm back. Sorry, she's back.

[Victoria Ward]

You're gonna have to. Your arms are gonna be shaking at the end of this from holding up this phone.

[Tara Palmeri]

I know. I'm sorry to everyone. I hope I'm not making you all nauseous with my Nuclear Witch Project filming. I know I don't have the steadiest of hands. V. What's on your mind otherwise?

[Victoria Ward]

You know, I'm actually to get off. Off of, like, American politics for a moment. I've had a lot of interest in collabs from the eu and that is, like, cool. And also, I think, telling of where we're at with the American media right now and the fact that, like, the Italian embassy, the French embassy, the eu, Brussels government, the country of Armenia are all reaching out to American content creators to try and tell their story and in particular, Tripsy Raise, like, to try and, like, make folks understand the importance of Ukraine and defending Ukraine. And I think that that's really interesting. So I'm going to Brussels and Italy at the end of November. Brussels to talk about EU and Ukraine stuff and Italy to. We're trying to do a thing to show, like, look, the Italian government has separation of church and state, and the Vatican's all up in there. Why is that important to Italy? Why is that important to democracies? And what can America learn from Italy recovering from fascism and not being too buddy buddy with the Vatican? And both the Pope and Giorgia Meloni are apparently going to make a comment. So we'll see.

[Tara Palmeri]

That's exciting.

[Victoria Ward]

We'll see. I am Catholic. We talked about this. We have the Catholic thing. So I'm like, okay, yeah, you know.

[Tara Palmeri]

I used to cover the eu. I was based in Brussels for two years.

[Victoria Ward]

You should come. I'm going to be like, bring Tara with us.

[Tara Palmeri]

She knows what's up. Email them, say, bring Tara Palmer. They probably remember me because I was. I moved there with Politico Europe. It was like a big thing. When they come back, started that I.

[Victoria Ward]

Think you'd Bear is coming.

[Tara Palmeri]

Whose guy?

[Victoria Ward]

Shira Lazar.

[Tara Palmeri]

Oh, cool. You would be so helpful for them in terms of understanding communication. I always felt like they struggled with communication.

[Victoria Ward]

And I used to say, well, they're kind of sarcastic. And I'm like, american audiences don't understand, like, sarcasm or, like, they're kind of, like, neggy about stuff.

[Tara Palmeri]

Oh, yeah, they're European.

[Victoria Ward]

So, yeah, there's.

[Tara Palmeri]

They always have. They don't. They're not like, us internally eternally optimistic.

[Victoria Ward]

No, they're very begrudging. They're like, oh, okay. Well, what do you want me to do? I'm like, what do you want me to do? You invited me here.

[Tara Palmeri]

It's the old way. It's the old way. We're the ones who are disrupt. We're disruptors. I always felt that way when I was in Europe, and maybe it was because I came brand, like, Politico.

[Victoria Ward]

Yeah.

[Tara Palmeri]

People were like, oh, they're the disruptors.

[Victoria Ward]

Yeah.

[Tara Palmeri]

Also sort of like, the old way's not really working if you've got Brexit going on right now.

[Victoria Ward]

Oh, that's the thing is they're like. I think they really. Because they've said to me, like, the ambassador from EU and the Ukrainian ambassador have both said, like, obviously, this idea of, like, traditional diplomacy and, like, elder people diplomacy is not working. This is not working. Like, we're not getting the message across. The ambassador's not speaking to the public in the way that we used to kind of like, you know, the ambassador speaking to the politicians was okay. And then it would trickle down. She's like, I need to speak directly to the American public because they're not being a good. Sort of like that. It's not working. Like, this. Diplomacy's not working. And I was like, for real, man.

[Tara Palmeri]

So when I was there, they were just handing out communique. Just pieces of paper.

[Victoria Ward]

Yeah.

[Tara Palmeri]

And everything was written almost like in a French translation. So it was like, everything. T o I at o n. It was like. And there was never really anything except, like, a promise to do something, to eventually do something. And it was.

[Victoria Ward]

It's a lot of tea parties and martinis. Yeah. I was like, y', all, oh, you.

[Tara Palmeri]

Should have a grand old time.

[Victoria Ward]

We'll see.

[Tara Palmeri]

You should have fun.

[Victoria Ward]

I get scared at everything.

[Tara Palmeri]

Seriously, if you want. If you're looking for some fun in Brussels, I'll connect you with some friends there.

[Victoria Ward]

Well, I'm gonna make you come on the trip, so then that'll be easy.

[Tara Palmeri]

I'll come, I'll come. I'm happy.

[Victoria Ward]

It's literally November 30th to December 6th. You could swing it.

[Tara Palmeri]

That's like a week I'm moving that day. Next time, though, we're figuring out.

[Victoria Ward]

But I'll loop you in with them because I think it's a good thing they're doing. And I'm very concerned about what's going on in Ukraine and in particular with Trump's temperament when it comes to foreign policy. Like, okay, so this is my book on my desk right now, kicking The Hornet's Nest U.S. foreign Policy in the Middle east from Truman to Trump. Because I felt like I needed to get like more info on it. Trump's mentality and his temperament is that he wants to keep saying he solves all these wars. And so like to hear that he was screaming at Zelensky and being like, just take the deal. It's because he's a short term thinker and he just wants to have a win and he just wants this to be over. And he feels the pressure of folks saying, well, you said you were gonna do it day one. Guess you couldn't do it. Mr. Art of the deal. And it's about him and his ego and not about what's right for the world. And that panics me. That pan me about his to give Trump some space. We. No, I'm saying, I'm saying, I'm saying Trump should just back Ukraine, send the damn Tomahawks and be done. Stop trying to be besties with Putin, my guy, like, what is wrong with you? It's never going to work out. He's never going to love you. I know, but he's got polling. Poland's got a conservative prime minister or whatever they got over there now, like.

[Tara Palmeri]

Do that is it?

[Victoria Ward]

Yeah. And he's, he's like, you know, trying to, they're like fluffing Trump in all these different ways so he thinks he's cool with all the eu. And I'm like, brother, they are just trying to not get in your crosshairs and you're weird.

[Tara Palmeri]

Always know they have to play the American president. They don't want to be Ukraine next.

[Victoria Ward]

Well, right. And that's what's like, coming up on. So I think he's trying to be like, too buddy with Trump. But you Got to kind of like, you know, egg him towards like, hey, let's Ukraine is the dam before Europe. And I don't think we want to play this game again. But I really do think when Trump came into office, he thought like, him, Russia, China and like Hungary, we're going to somehow be like the new axis. He doesn't live in a real world. Also, all of this AI slop shit he's doing, he's not making those ChatGPT requests like Stephen Chung is or like.

[Tara Palmeri]

The EI slop shit, you know what I mean?

[Victoria Ward]

They're just sending it to him and he's like, oh yeah, post, that's cool. Like, because all attention is good attention to a narcissist.

[Tara Palmeri]

Could you imagine how he looks at executive orders?

[Victoria Ward]

He doesn't remember when Tulsi Gabbard was saying that she needed to figure out how to like do a community theater performance to give him briefings because he doesn't read. And then she kind of got dragged in the news for a while because folks were like, what do you mean? She was like trying to think of how she could make like a TikTok to give him the briefing because he doesn't read.

[Tara Palmeri]

It was a Fox News segment too.

[Victoria Ward]

Yeah, like how to make a Fox News segment to give him a briefing.

[Tara Palmeri]

I remember when I was at ABC, I reported that the former NSC McMaster wanted to get Trump to send over anti tank missiles to Ukraine, which even Obama would not send them because he saw that as a provocation towards Russia. So he slipped it in his desk over Christmas and Trump was like, sign. So he didn't even know that he had signed off on this, like what was considered a provocation.

[Victoria Ward]

But you know, he knows anything that's going on, truly. And now he's building this ballroom.

[Tara Palmeri]

Like he doesn't really know what was in the big beautiful bill and that's why they're dealing with this, these Obamacare subsidies right now. He just didn't really care about the detail. He was like, so how do we package it? You know, bbb, you know, it's. He's all about marketing the deep, but.

[Victoria Ward]

It'S like a reality show. So what are you. What's something good you're thinking about or something else you're thinking about a long nap. I know you've been on all the shows and having to talk about all the things.

[Tara Palmeri]

Nah. Yeah, I'm excited to sleep some at some point in my life. It'll be really great. No, I. What am I looking forward to? Halloween I haven't even found a costume, but they get.

[Victoria Ward]

Are you gonna dress up? Are you a costume person? What are you going to do?

[Tara Palmeri]

No, I'm not. But I'm embracing it this year because.

[Victoria Ward]

Do it. We need whimsy. Whimsy and absurdity this year. Yeah.

[Tara Palmeri]

I need to have a little fun. Yeah, yeah.

[Victoria Ward]

We're doing wizard of Oz in my family. So my sister's being the Scarecrow. My brother in law is being the Carolyn Lion. My niece is Dorothy. I am going to be Glinda, obviously the Good Witch of the north, because I live in the North. My wife will probably be Elphaba. Everybody has a piece.

[Tara Palmeri]

I love this. I love co. I love.

[Victoria Ward]

My nephew is the Tin man, which is cute because he was born with a little heart defect. So he's the Tin man because he's so cute.

[Tara Palmeri]

Guys, send me a message on what I should be because I haven't thought about it and I don't have the brain capacity.

[Victoria Ward]

I know. Do you want to be something fun and political or do you want to be something just like classic Halloween?

[Tara Palmeri]

I don't know because like, I feel like no matter if you do whatever you do political, somehow it like comes back to bite you.

[Victoria Ward]

And they're like, yeah, the only good costume ever was the hanging chad. That was the only good political costume. I know. What could you be? Yeah, you don't want to be like Melania or something. Like that's not going to play. It's not going to get it.

[Tara Palmeri]

They'll just be like, really be something classic.

[Victoria Ward]

Be like 1950s monster mash something or like something fun. You know, like Bride of Frankenstein is like real fun or like Marie Antoinette or something. I don't know. I'm all for stuff that has big hair and costumes and stuff.

[Tara Palmeri]

Yeah.

[Victoria Ward]

You have to decide if you want to be pretty Halloween or scary Halloween or pretty scary.

[Tara Palmeri]

I'll be scary Scary Halloween.

[Victoria Ward]

Do it.

[Tara Palmeri]

Feeling scary. Oh, B. I'm like having the best time. I'm gonna.

[Victoria Ward]

I know.

[Tara Palmeri]

We have to do this more.

[Victoria Ward]

We will.

[Tara Palmeri]

It's funny because I see, like, I'll get comments people really love. Well, they obviously love your show, but this is a really. They love the fun.

[Victoria Ward]

Yes, we need fun and whimsy and absurdity. We'll have you on the new show. We'll see what's happening.

[Tara Palmeri]

I would love it.

[Victoria Ward]

And this show's gonna be more civics in history, not political chit chat show. Because like me and Sammy said, doing the political chit chat show, it's it's too much of a drain and it moves too quick. And we didn't think it was like serving the public interest to keep doing it really.

[Tara Palmeri]

Because I am obsessed with your videos.

[Victoria Ward]

I loved. We loved it. But we were like.

[Tara Palmeri]

I wanted to.

[Victoria Ward]

Do this other thing that helps people get more. I do think the pendulum's gonna swing away from anti intellectualism. And I want our people to be ready when that happens and have a basis of knowledge that has either escaped us cause we haven't been in school for so long, or school is not teaching proper civic history. And so I think there's a lot to be curious about with America and the way we'll rebuild it after this regime. And so we wanted to kind of like spend more time in those worlds.

[Tara Palmeri]

You two are so smart. You're just like two nerds. I just got.

[Victoria Ward]

We are.

[Tara Palmeri]

And you're nerds and best friends.

[Victoria Ward]

But then we do, you know, then you could do a subsect live and just chit chat whenever you want, man. So you're like, all right, we'll do that.

[Tara Palmeri]

I'll take a civic course every day. I never have to take it. Yeah, yeah.

[Victoria Ward]

But this, the show is fun because it's shit. Like, okay, let's explore the problems with the fertility industry. But the first episode is about sperm racing. This new sport that men have come up with called sperm racing that deals with fertility.

[Tara Palmeri]

Stop blaming women for infertility.

[Victoria Ward]

It's men's fault. And these boys are like. These boys are like, hey, look. Yeah, we're doing sperm racing because we think it, like, you know, brings attention to this. But like, in actuality, male motility is an issue. And here's the ways that you could fix it, bro. And I'm like, good job, boys.

[Tara Palmeri]

You guys should be freezing your sperm. Just like, we have to go and freeze our eggs, right? Yeah, all that. Freeze it, put it on ice, put.

[Victoria Ward]

It on ice, keep it to yourself, whatever you need to do. I. I've. Yeah. Being in the sperm racing world has been something as a lesbian I did not anticipate I would get into. But now that I know a lot about it and will be attending a sperm brace in Las Vegas, I. I feel like the new show is gonna help people in a different way.

[Tara Palmeri]

I feel civically informed. I didn't even know sperm races were a thing. So here I am, living in the dark ages.

[Victoria Ward]

I'm here to tell you what the kids are up to. All right, Tara, go get some sleep and I'll see you guys later. Bye.

[Tara Palmeri]

Thank you. Bye, guys. Yeah, that was another episode of the Tara Palmieri Show. Thank you again for tuning in. Please rate, subscribe Share this with your friends. If you like my reporting, please go to tarapaulmary.com that's T A R a P a L m e r I.com with just one I and sign up for the red letter. It's how you get my exclusive reporting straight to your inbox. And it's how you can support my independent journalism. No billionaires involved here. No establishment propping me up. This is just me doing independent journalism, following the leads when they come. I want to thank my producer, Eric Rabinate. I want to thank Abby Baker, who does research on social media. And I want to thank Adam Stewart, who does my graphics. See you again tomorrow.