← The Tara Palmeri Show
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- [00:02]
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- [00:31]
Congresswoman Kat Kamek
You have to give me a second. Oh, you got me good on this one. We should be willing to talk about the situations and these circumstances and these experiences without fear of someone threatening your life.
- [00:49]
Tara Palmeri
Welcome back to the Tara Palmeri Show. Kat Kamek is a pro life MAGA congresswoman from Florida who asked to come on the Tara Palmeri show to talk about her crusade to clean up the rampant sexual abuse on Capitol. I was intrigued because she's a Republican taking on a feminist fight while her party's leader, President Trump, has faced allegations of sexual misconduct from at least 26 women. But during the interview, our conversation took an unexpected turn. Kamek described what it was like to face a life threatening pregnancy complication in Florida, a state with restrictive heartbeat abortion laws. She spoke about needing an emergency medical procedure, the fear she experienced and how she believes delays in treatment nearly cost her her life. The conversation became emotional and it impacted me deeply because it transformed what is often a political debate into a truly personal story. After the interview, Congresswoman Kamek asked me not to air that portion of our discussion. She said she feared renewed backlash and concerns for her family's safety. She has discussed this experience, though publicly before, and the interview was conducted on the record without any conditions on the topics we could discuss. I thought really carefully about her request. As a journalist, I often deal with sensitive subjects and I take it very seriously to protect vulnerable sources when appropriate. But Congressman Kamek is a public official discussing a matter that relates directly to one of the most consequential policy debates in the country. Ultimately, I decided the conversation is in the public interest and that is why I am airing it in full. Take a listen.
- [02:36]
Tara Palmeri (Interviewer)
Congresswoman, we really appreciate your work here at the Red Letter because this is obviously a huge problem in Washington. You want to change this toxic environment, particularly around sexual harassment. We care a lot about how people in power use that power, especially when, you know, it's, it's clearly they're using it to take advantage of people who are working for them. So can you just kind of paint a picture for the listeners who may not know what it's like every day on Capitol Hill and what kind of, you know, what you're seeing.
- [03:12]
Congresswoman Kat Kamek
Yeah, I mean, I think back to, I'll start at the beginning of really, it feels like it's not just the last couple of years of, of incidences that have brought this all to light. It really, this is decades, honestly, this is truly decades of this boiling up. And, and I'll go back to 2013. I was a brand new chief of staff on Capitol Hill and it was orientation for my then boss. And we're going around meeting different members of Congress and I'll never forget this, we sat with Ron Paul. He was retiring, so he was, he was leaving Capitol Hill and he and his wife had invited my boss, myself and my boss's wife to come and visit so they could just kind of give us, you know, some friendly advice as we came into Congress. And I'll Never forget this, Mrs. Paul said, ain't nothing but hanky panky happen around this town around 10p after 10pm and I thought it was so kind of, you know, tongue in cheek, cute at the time. Oh my goodness, how true that was. I mean that, that has stuck with me all these years. And you think about D.C. really is like college 2.0. In some cases it's like high school 2.0. And there's a lot of factors that lead to a lot of bad behaviors and it's kind of like a breeding ground for all the things that can go wrong to go wrong. So yeah, you've got this real, really tough power imbalance, this dynamic. You have people who you hire and you want, they want to do a good job. They always are trying to get to a yes. And they don't want to be the divergent thinker in the room saying no, we shouldn't do that, or no, you shouldn't do that. Everyone's always trying to get to a yes. And so that really breeds a culture where that type of, that type of environment can get abusive really, really, really fast. Now I'm an equal opportunity offender, so I will say that it is not exclusive to men behaving badly. There are also women who abuse their positions of power and it' just members of Congress, it is also staff and it's all levels of staff. So what we have is an environment where today my daughter, which granted she's 10 months old, but if in the future she wanted to go work on Capitol Hill, if the environment today was still the way it is in 20 years from now, I wouldn't feel comfortable sending her there because it is a lot of drinking, a lot of smoking cigars. There's just that power dynamic that you have to make decisions if something does happen of do I speak up and try to do something and rectify the situation, or do I just keep quiet and choose my career? And no one should ever be in a position where they feel like they have to make that choice. So we've got some pretty bad situations that we're working through and figuring out ways that we can stop retaliation, really change the training mechanisms on Capitol Hill to a victim centered approach and then awareness. I mean, it's wild to me how many people I've talked to and they're like, oh, I didn't realize that I had options. So big things that we're dealing with.
- [06:20]
Tara Palmeri (Interviewer)
It's really interesting to me because you were a staffer, so you were on the other side of the power. And so you probably saw closer than perhaps some of the other female members of Congress who have never spent their time working for a member or being the one with less power. And I really agree with you. It's basically a campus for powerful people. I've covered Capitol Hill as a journalist, and you're right, it's after hours. They go to receptions where they're given liquor. They're around lobbyists who are trying to kiss up to them. They have staffers around them who are young and impressionable and they're afraid to say no. They worry about the repercussions of speaking up. And there's just a lot of alcohol and people without their families living out this sort of like second college life. And I really think you're right. There are a lot of temptations, and it is. And there's also a recipe for a lot of things to go wrong. But I think the power part of it also adds to it. Like some of the people that come to Washington, you know, they weren't the high school jock, but now suddenly all eyes are on them and they're the cool kids. Right. And there's a level of intoxication that comes from it. And they may have shown up with a lot of values, but then they sort of lose them over time, right?
- [07:39]
Congresswoman Kat Kamek
Absolutely. I mean, I joke that D.C. is Hollywood for ugly people. I don't mean that in a terribly disparaging way. I know that we're also not supposed to have personalities in Washington, but you're 100% right. I mean, you, you have a city that is. And I've heard this statistic, and you know, take this at face value. I've heard it is the most educated city in the United States. So you have a lot of smart people, right, with a lot of really fancy degrees. But just because you got a fancy degree doesn't necessarily mean that you got common sense. And I have seen people, I've seen colleagues, I've seen staffers behave in ways that I'm just like, why on earth would you think that that is a good idea? And it's not just members and staff. When we started this project of the working group between the Democratic Women's Caucus and the Republican Women's Caucus, a lot of reporters were covering the story. And I cannot tell you how many different journalists came to me and said, you know, as the lights went down and the mics got cut, they said, oh, by the way, I could tell you stories about this member and this guy and this person who, you know, as a journalist, you. You want to maintain your sources. You work really hard to develop those relationships. But then a lot of these members will cross the line. And in the case of Swalwell, there was not one, but two journalists that I have spoken to that said he would text them at 1:00am 2:00am inappropriate things, asking for photos, asking for nudes, doing all kinds of crazy things. And I'm like, guys, this is. This is what has to stop. And again, I think this, the way that the Hill is set up, you. You have this power dynamic where all of a sudden people maybe who weren't the jocks, maybe they were the theater kids, maybe they were on the debate team, you know, maybe they weren't the popular kids in school. All of a sudden, they're. The whole universe, right, is revolving around them. At least it is in their minds. And they. They start to believe their own press. And I tell people all the time, you know, like, we'll. We'll have a reception or a dinner or meeting or something, and, you know, I'll crack a joke and people will just bust out laughing. I'm like, I know that wasn't that funny. I know I'm not that funny. You know, but it's. You know, people are. They're looking for access. And so it just creates an environment where we have to have the guardrail set up so that people know that they have resources. If something does happen, we. They are not going to be retaliated if they speak up. And. And really just changing the culture on Washington, in Washington, it's. It's not going to happen overnight. But it's something that. The more we talk about it, I think the less likely people will be willing to engage in this type of behavior.
- [10:24]
Tara Palmeri (Interviewer)
Yeah, it's interesting that you brought up reporters because I, we all as reporters have had this experience where we've been hit on by members, sources, senior administration officials. I'm not going to name some of them, but let's just say, yes, I know what that's like, but you can't do anything about it because you want to maintain this sort of, you know, you don't want to lose source relationships. And if there is an impression that you are willing to go and report somebody either to your boss or I'm not even sure where you would go in Congress, which we'll talk about next to talk about, you know, there's nothing will happen. There's no penalty, there's no punishment. And so we're kind of vulnerable as well in the sense that, like, we sort of have to put up with it because we'll lose access, our jobs. And if you are ever seen as a reporter who's going to speak out about this, like nobody's going to take your call ever again, how are you supposed to do your job, you know?
- [11:23]
Congresswoman Kat Kamek
Yeah, well, and I've always kind of wondered and I've talked to a few of the reporters on that cover, the Capitol Beat, and I've asked, I'm like, how do you deal with this situation? Because I know, I mean, even just in passing, I've, I've, I've seen some interactions with members and reporters or staff and, you know, it's just a little too not friendly, but it's just like I've seen especially women who have, you can tell from their body language they're not comfortable, but they're, they're, you know, they're trying to do their job. And you know, you have to wonder, like, who do you go to? What is, what is your recourse? And you're right. I mean, how, how do you do your job and build that trust as, you know, with sour and getting the story. If, if this is the type of behavior that you're having to tolerate and you shouldn't have to tolerate it. So it is. And of course, you know, no one talks about the lobbyists, but I can't tell you how many folks I've heard have similar situation. It is a rampant problem on Capitol Hill.
- [12:23]
Tara Palmeri (Interviewer)
I'll say, Yeah, I mean, I will admit that I once got a late night text message from Eric Swalho as well, not asking me for nudes, but I thought it was A little too late for congressman to ask to meet up, frankly, you know, on a source relationship. I've never had anything else creepy happen, but I did think it was a bit unusual. So, yeah, I put it out there that I've been on the receiving end, but not in a. To me, it wasn't sexual. The timing that was weird about it, and it wasn't off the record, so I don't feel like I broke any sort of. You know, and he's sort of understanding, but. Yeah. Why is this guy texting me at 10pm Like, I'm a journalist. I'm off hours now. Leave me alone.
- [13:06]
Congresswoman Kat Kamek
Yeah, exactly. Like. And it's like, what makes you think that that's appropriate? That's what I just. And it's crazy. I mean, I hate to say that I'm surprised. I'm not. It's just I know that there are so many other journalists who have had similar situations. And I'm really glad that you shared that, because I've. As I've talked to more and more people, I'm like, wow, this is a big problem. Like, this is a real problem. Yeah.
- [13:30]
Tara Palmeri (Interviewer)
So you're the chair of the Republican Women's Caucus, and you were to work alongside Democrats like Congresswoman Teresa Leger Fernandez to lead this bipartisan working group to try to combat sexual misconduct. Yeah. Why do you think you were chosen?
- [13:48]
Congresswoman Kat Kamek
So I think we're known for really being kind of a. Not behind the scenes, but just someone who really focuses in. On the work. And I have said this repeatedly on particularly in this issue, is that accountability can't begin and end with expulsions. Am I glad that Tony Gonzalez and Eric Swalwell are gone? Absolutely. And 1,000% credit to the amazing ladies that were the impetus behind that and really pushing to get that done. But it should never get to that point. And one of the things that's frustrating is in the aftermath of that, it's like, okay, how do we even start. Stop this from happening? Because there's victims that they collect along the way. I mean, we're hearing from more and more women who are coming out talking about Eric Swalwell's bad behavior both on Capitol Hill and back in California. I'm sure we'll find more victims as they. As they come forward. So the question began with, how do we. How did we even get to this point? And where is the system failing and how can we fix it? And so, you know, in talking with the speaker, I went to him and I said, listen, we've got a lot of Incredible ladies that have some really good ideas. And, and we'd like to talk about it. And he's like, well, it's funny that you mentioned that, because I was talking with Hakeem and, you know, we think that this is something that we should address. And I said, that's great. And I had been talking to Teresa, and so it all kind of organically evolved, but then we sat down and he said, yes. He's like, I think you guys need to do this. You need to lead on this, because this can't just be a show vote. It can't be just something that we're saying we're going to do. But then nothing ever changes. And, and admittedly, we're a bit of a bulldog, and my colleagues know that once I latch onto something, I'm not going to let it go. And I want to see real, tangible changes. And so we've been making a point that this is not a group that's going to, you know, study this issue and issue a report two years later, and nothing changes. Like, we've already got legislation that is in the hopper that we're moving forward because we see, like I said, we got those three main pillars that we're trying to address. But then there's some things about how can we even stop these types of creeps from getting to Capitol Hill? And I'll use this as an example. We have legislation that would force a disclosure on your candidate paperwork if you've ever had to settle a sexual misconduct case. That, to me, I think, is really important because voters deserve to know. And anymore people don't know what to believe. I guarantee you there's a lot of voters that wouldn't have sent some of these members to Congress had they known their backgrounds. And so we think that that could be another way of, hey, creeps need not apply. And we're going to make sure that every one of your constituents knows exactly who you are before you even get here. And then on the backside, people like, you know, Tony and Eric, they're still going to be eligible for their pensions, their congressional pensions, because the ethics process stopped once they resigned. And so I think that there's some, some things that we're talking about right now about if you are convicted of sexual misconduct, assault, rape, etc, you are no longer eligible for your pension. It goes to the victims. And we, we probably will get a lot of pushback on that. But why should we be any different in Congress than, say, the military? If you get a dishonorable discharge, you lose your benefits. So we want to make some real, tangible changes to discourage the behavior and know that there are actual, real consequences.
- [17:22]
Tara Palmeri (Interviewer)
So in 2017, Axios reported that Congress had paid out more than $17.2 million over 20 years to cover 268 settlements on Capitol Hill. Now, that's the office. That's according to the Office of Compliance. That was almost 10 years ago. God knows how much more money they've paid in the meantime. I don't. I mean, if something had happened to a staffer, where would they even go right now? Like, what is this? What's the process to even report? Is how Ethics committee the place to go? Is there even an HR inside of the Capitol? How would you report this?
- [18:00]
Congresswoman Kat Kamek
This is one of the most frustrating things. And once we started digging into it, it was. And as a staffer, you know, a former staffer, I knew of one resource. Turns out there's six different offices that you can go to and you have timelines and deadlines to report in each one. And so when we talk about how the system is pretty much designed for people not to report because it's so complicated, you have six different offices, different timelines and things that you have to do in order to come forward if your boss, you know, sexually assaults you, let's just use that as an example. That is absolutely impossible. That is an impossible system. And it's no wonder that so many people have come forward and said, you know what, I just made the decision that I would rather keep my job and rather than go through this crazy process that would ultimately be, you know, worked up against me in the first place. So you've got these six different offices that range from Employment Council, Office of Workplace Rights, Ethics, there's the Ethics Committee, then you have the. It's a subsidiary kind of, of ethics. And all of them, they don't talk to each other. So that's one of the problems that we've seen. And so Teresa and I have sat down and said, all right, we need a one stop shop. Basically, like the one call that you have to make. Everybody knows if something happens, this is where you go. And it has to be set up where people are protected because the retaliation issue is very, very, very real. And so that is one of our big goals is before the end of the year, all of this kind of gets funneled into a one stop shop for people to go and even just ask questions because we've had some staffers come forward and say, you know, this happened. I don't know, it's a bit of A gray area. I wasn't very comfortable. But, you know, I didn't, I wasn't this or this didn't happen. So I don't know if it qualifies for, you know, they've got questions and they feel like they don't have anyone to go and ask those questions. So that's part of it is creating that area, that office, that one, that one stop shop where people can get answers.
- [20:14]
Tara Palmeri (Interviewer)
Got it. So, Anna Paulina Luna, another MAGA congresswoman, I might say Nancy Mace, they have also been interested in taking on this fight alongside you. Why do you think these MAGA congresswomen are uniquely positioned to do this?
- [20:33]
Congresswoman Kat Kamek
I mean, I, I, I give full credit to, to Anna for what she did in coordinating with Teresa on Eric Swalwell and Tony Gonzalez. I mean, she really was a driving force. And you know, we've seen Nancy be a driving force on this space as well, particularly against Corey Mills and, and Ilhan Omar for different reasons. But, you know, she, these, these two women specifically have been about these issues and how we need to clean up office. I think it's just you have a different generation coming in with a different attitude. And I would say it extends far beyond just the quote, unquote MAGA wing. It's people who are sick and tired of the status quo. We came into Congress with the mindset that we were going to be disruptors because honestly, that's where things happen is when you're disrupting these broken systems. Because I think, as we've seen particularly on Capitol Hill, the status quo, it doesn't work and it's just, quite frankly, unacceptable. So when you've got folks like Nancy and Anna and Lauren and, you know, these three ladies who I consider friends, they're doing a great job of highlighting these issues, and that's where we can come in and dovetail into actually fixing the systems. So I think this is really important that, you know, people are willing to speak up and speak out because it has been a problem. And I don't know why some choose to stay quiet. I think it, again, feeds into that culture that we have of retaliation. It's real.
- [22:09]
Tara Palmeri (Interviewer)
Yeah.
- [22:10]
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- [22:12]
Congresswoman Kat Kamek
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- [22:14]
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- [22:25]
Tara Palmeri (Interviewer)
Would you call yourself a feminist?
- [22:29]
Congresswoman Kat Kamek
What's funny is when I got elected in 2020, I think it was Politico at the time who had asked me that question. They were doing a profile piece and said, would you consider yourself a feminist? And I said, yeah, I don't know. Because it seems like the traditional feminist movement has. Has kind of taken a very strong departure from what it originally was. So would I call myself a feminist? No, I would say I'm just an American. An American woman who really, really wants to get the creeps out of Washington.
- [23:11]
Tara Palmeri (Interviewer)
Yeah. What is it about modern feminism that you don't like?
- [23:16]
Congresswoman Kat Kamek
I think that there is. That has really turned into an attack on. On men. Many, many. And elements, I think, of the modern movement have villainized men in talk. You know, this has been a very popular, you know, line used over the last couple of years of, you know, toxic masculinity. I can't imagine if I had a son, raising him where the natural. The natural inclinations to, you know, just be a boy and, and go outside and play and do all the things, you know, he gets punished for that. And you see where men in today's society are really being told they can't be men. So I think that that's one of the frustrating parts, I think, of the modern movement as we know it. And then, of course, you get into some of the things about protecting women's sports and Title ix. I remember standing in the House triangle outside the steps of the Capitol having a press conference talking about protecting women's sports. And it was a unique group of us because it was Republicans, Independents and Democrats, and it was women from all over the country. And I had one woman pull me aside and she said, you know, I'm from California, I am a Democrat. I'm what you would call an old school feminist. That's what she specifically said. She's like, I'm an old school feminist. And she's like, so I agree with you. We've got to protect women's sports. Now when you talk to some folks that are. That consider themselves, you know, ultra feminist and, you know, they wear the pink hats and whatnot, and they're the code pink crew. They want women to be on the same field as men and in the same locker rooms as men. And that's where I have a problem. I mean, we have a biological difference that needs to be acknowledged and respected. And I don't think that men should be in women's spaces, private spaces, and I don't think that we should be forcing our girls to compete against boys. So that's where I think the modern movement has gone awry. There's been too many women who have sacrificed and worked so very hard to get women into places that we hadn't been before in Congress, for example. I mean, out of the 12,000 people that have served as a representative in this nation, less than 500 have been women. That's a staggering statistic. And I just think that sometimes the movement doesn't reflect really the reality of what so many people around the country and women who are continuing to fight to have careers and have families, are fighting for and looking for, and just
- [25:47]
Tara Palmeri (Interviewer)
to lay some facts down, there are about transgender women make up 0.002% of college athletes, u. S. College athletes, and 0.0001% of what a recent Olympian. So we're talking about a really small percentage of people. So just to. I don't think it would be, I don't think it's a, a typical experience for women to be playing with.
- [26:16]
Congresswoman Kat Kamek
I think any woman that is in that position, that's one too many in my mind. I mean, and, and it's again, no, no woman should ever be forced to compete against a man. Particularly when you look at the scholarships and the championships and the podiums that have been lost. It's over a thousand just in the high school space. Over a thousand girls have lost scholarships, they've lost podiums. And again, I mean, it's just, I think that that's ridiculous. So it doesn't need to be an anti trans platform. You know, I think that there's certainly, you know, me being someone who wants less government in our everyday lives, you know, what you do as a consenting adult, that's on you, that's your choice. But especially when we're talking about minors and sitting on energy and commerce, we've had those fights about the surgeries and graduate medical funding for these facilities that are performing surgeries on kids, on minors. That to me is very, very problematic. And so I think that's where, when you talk about the feminist movement as a whole, that's where you see these, these folks that you call them as that lady referred to herself. She's like, I'm an old school feminist. I don't believe in all of this stuff that's happening. I mean, and you can see this playing out in Congress. You've got what about three weeks ago, the Women's History Museum, the National Women's History Museum, was unanimously by the left voted down because the language said biological women that, like, make it make sense. It doesn't make sense.
- [28:00]
Tara Palmeri
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- [29:29]
Tara Palmeri (Interviewer)
us going back to Congress. Do you find it difficult to take the position that we need to root out all the sexual harassers? We need to, you know, come out up front before you even run for Congress or run for elected office and say whether you've signed an NDA for sexual harassment when, you know, the Republican leader Trump has been accused by at least 26 women of sexual abuse.
- [29:54]
Congresswoman Kat Kamek
The only thing I can control is the House. Right? I mean, even the Senate has different rules than the House. And so I take it from, if we're not willing to do the things that are happening right in our own backyard, right in, in the House Representatives, how can we expect anyone else to be held accountable? Accountable? And I, I've had so many conversations with women both currently serving and in the military that, you know, are now in the military now, but are veterans and some that are veterans. And they've said it's really frustrating because it feels like the standard gets kind of beta tested on, on the military, but it's never applied to Congress. It's always that double standard. And so I've, I've been asked that before about, you know, what do you think about this. And what do you think about that? We can't even clean up our own house. We can't be expected to hold anybody else accountable. And so I think there's a real huge mission ahead of us just in the House. But even from there, you have the Senate that has their own rules. And so if the Capitol's not willing to take step up and hold themselves accountable, I don't think we are in a position to even talk about others.
- [31:02]
Tara Palmeri (Interviewer)
But you are supporting him. I mean, his hat is behind you right now. Yeah, yeah. Why do you think Trump didn't want the Epstein files released?
- [31:12]
Congresswoman Kat Kamek
You know, I don't know. I've never spoken to him about it. For me, personally, I have been since 2021, calling for the release of the Epstein files.
- [31:26]
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And.
- [31:26]
Congresswoman Kat Kamek
And what's frustrating is I see a lot of people today talking about it that were radio silent, radio silent for four years. And unfortunately, and I've talked to so many of the victims, met with them multiple times, as I'm sure you have. I feel like this became a partisan issue when it never should have been a partisan issue. It really, really, in the end, hurts them. And I think in talking with them, there's so many things, again, that we can fix and we should fix. I mean, one of the most horrible things that I heard was when I won't say her name. But she came forward, she was talking to the FBI, reporting the FBI, and she said she was treated like a criminal.
- [32:11]
Tara Palmeri (Interviewer)
Yeah. How they felt. But, you know, it's interesting because Virginia Giuffre, who I was close with, she was encouraged by the arrest of Jeffrey Epstein back in 2019, that maybe there would be some justice. Right. And obviously that was under President Trump's leadership. But I understand, as leader of the party and with the ability to release the Epstein files, why he is now getting so much heat for it. And I agree that it's. It is horrible how it's become partisan. It's just a tool. And truly, people from both sides of the aisle very much were a part of this and did nothing about it. So it's like, you know, he is the President of the United States right now. That is why there is anger and why, you know, partisans can use it against him. But do you feel bad for your colleagues, like Nancy Mace, you know, who lost her primary in South Carolina? Carolina. She was a huge supporter of President Trump for so long, but she said, we need to release the Epstein files and he wouldn't endorse her. And then there's Marjorie Taylor Greene who fought for the Epstein files to be released, and she was. She had to resign from Congress. I mean, they've lost their political careers because President Trump turned on them when they called for transparency in the Epstein files. Do you feel any, like, sympathy with. For them?
- [33:23]
Congresswoman Kat Kamek
Well, I mean, I know Nancy and, and Marjorie personally, and I consider them both friends. I think there's a lot more to the story with both of them, and it's their story to tell. So I'm not going to say one way or the other or divulge any of our private conversations, but I will say that on the, on the Epstein issue, every opportunity that I have had in order to release them in a truly actual, meaningful way, not just a show vote. Because, I mean, as you know, I mean, you've covered Congress long enough. You know, there's a lot of show votes, things that sound good for a sound bite, but actually don't do anything. One of the things that was really meaningful was voting to release the Epstein files. And I've, I've actually asked doj, you know, what are, what are we holding. What are we holding back here? What's the hang up? I. I've been told that there's still some litigation going on and some victims that don't want to be released. And, and to me, that's just a bit of certainly, of course, protecting the victims. I want us. I want us to get to where everything that can be released should be released. I mean, protect the victims. But the thing that I. In my conversations. Yeah, I mean, they should. And one of the things that has really stuck out to me in the conversations with the victims is the statute of limitations and talking about how, you know, we're actually working to fix things. Teresa and I were exploring legislation right now that would change the statute of limitations for victims like this to actually go after, after, after the folks that, that perpetuated these crimes against them. And when you think about how you have women who were victims of Jeffrey Epstein in the early 90s, and they didn't come forward until well after the statute of limitations had passed, they kind of, they were, they were doing it with nothing to gain, just doing it because they thought it was the right thing to do. They wanted to justice. And they're saying, you know, we're just trying to make this better for people in the future. That, I mean, that speaks volumes about their character and who they are. So that's something that we in Congress need to actually fix. And I think, you know, in the time that Nancy has, while she's continuing to serve. I would love for her to be a part of this. She's certainly not shy when it comes to standing up on these issues. So it's something that we talked to
- [35:55]
Tara Palmeri (Interviewer)
President Trump about this, about wanting the 2.8 million files to be released.
- [36:00]
Congresswoman Kat Kamek
I haven't spoken to him about it directly, no.
- [36:02]
Tara Palmeri (Interviewer)
Do you plan to?
- [36:04]
Congresswoman Kat Kamek
Anytime that we ever get a chance to talk, it is very short, I will say. And it always seems to be because, listen, there's no shortage of things that are happening. It's always about what is like that crisis of the day, whether it's, you know, FISA or Save America act or Iran. And so I have not spoken to the President personally on the issue of Epstein. It's no surprise about where I stand on it. Like I said, I mean, my vote, it's public. I voted to release. I've been calling for it since 2021. And I was really, really frustrated when the influencer debacle happened of, you know, oh, the binders, we have all these binders. I thought that was, I thought that was really, really. I thought that was inappropriate.
- [36:54]
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- [37:24]
Tara Palmeri
you're about to hear is the portion of the interview that Congresswoman Kamek later asked me not to include. After careful consideration, I decided it was in the public interest to air it.
- [37:34]
Tara Palmeri (Interviewer)
I do want to talk about something that you've spoken publicly about, an extremely vulnerable moment in your life. And I applaud you for, for doing that because I know it's not easy. But, you know, you suffered a life threatening ectopic pregnancy and you had to make a decision to terminate that pregnancy to save your own life. What was that like?
- [37:54]
Congresswoman Kat Kamek
Oh, awful, Heartbreaking. I mean, there was no heartbeat. The doctors told me it took about 10 days to actually figure out really what was going on. At first they thought that I was just miscarrying because I was hemorrhaging so much. And so literally within the first minute of finding out I was pregnant, I immediately thought I was miscarrying. And the doctors, when I Went in and they said, well, there's really nothing you can do. You're probably. You're probably miscarrying. And so just. You're gonna have to go on about your day. And, I mean, that would, to me, was just, holy shit, you know? And they kept doing the blood tests to try to figure out what was going on. And they finally, with some ultrasounds, were able to figure out that it was an ectopic pregnancy, a corneal, which is one of the rarest that you can. Can have and one of the most dangerous. Like I said, it was about five weeks along, they couldn't detect a heartbeat. And they said that given where it was, because the HCG levels were continuing to rise, it would eventually rupture, and it would cause internal bleeding, and there was a very real risk of dying. And so that's when they told me, like, you have to go now. You got to go to the er. And they gave me two options. They said, you can either do the surgery, which, because of where this ectopic is, you will likely lose your uterus, or you can do a shot of methotrexate, which is a cancer drug. And the whole deal with methotrexate was it stops the chemical from continuing to produce. And so I go into the ER and they bring me back. And then all of a sudden, it was like. Like, wait, we have questions. And I'm like, oh, boy. And that. That started me down a path of really understanding how. How broken one, the system is, and two, how politics has really, really endangered a lot of women's lives in very vulnerable moments.
- [40:15]
Tara Palmeri
Yeah.
- [40:15]
Tara Palmeri (Interviewer)
I mean, so Florida has the heart, heartbeat protection at law, cannot get an abortion after six weeks. No medical abortions that are sent in the mail. If your doctor wants you a medical abortion, they can, but it has to be life because, you know, threatening to your life, essentially, that's why you need it. And you can get an abortion up to 15 weeks, which is about, well, whatever, four months in. In cases of rape, incest, or human trafficking. But again, you have to provide documentation, like a restraining order or a police report, which a lot of women don't obviously feel comfortable doing, especially in cases of incest, rape, and trafficking, which would endanger their lives in some cases. I mean, when you met that resistance with doctors, did you think to yourself, we got to change this law? Like, you're an educated, eloquent congresswoman. Imagine if you didn't know the law. You were just a regular person, perhaps coming from a disadvantaged background. You get the same sort of diagnosis. But you convince your doctors that it's worth the penalty. I mean, they could be fine like $5,000. They can use their medical license, that it's worth it to risk their professions to save your life.
- [41:31]
Congresswoman Kat Kamek
So in my case, and I know there's been a lot of different circumstances that women have faced on this, and the entire time that this went on, from the minute I took that pregnancy test to the minute I found myself in the error, I kept telling my husband, what about the women who don't have a doctor and what about the women who don't have a car to get to the er? And what about. And I must have asked that question to him 30 times. We, as we sat there, and this is again, my experience, and I know women have had many different experiences. As I was in the er, the nurse who was taking care of us, she was, you know, very kind and she said, listen, there, there's going to be a bit of a delay. There's some stuff that admin has to figure out. And I said, what's going on? And she said, well, according to the law, if we give you a shot of methotrexate, we are going to be held liable. And the doctor is very concerned. And I said, I'm, well, one, I'm five weeks, the loss is six, and I'm five weeks, there is no heartbeat. And this is very clearly a, you know, danger to the life of the mother situation. And she said, oh, no, no, I know that. But she turned and then she takes her phone and she shows me an advertisement that was from a group that said that any nurse, technician, doctor that had helped any woman who was miscarrying or having a topic that they would go to jail. And it was an advertisement that she had screenshotted. And I sat there in disbelief. My husband saw it and I said, you've got to be effing kidding me. And I looked at the group and it was a pro abortion group that was against the Florida law. And come to find out, I didn't know this. Then I found out, you know, weeks later that they had been geofencing around hospitals and any system that they could to scare doctors and nurses away from providing care for women in crisis. And it got so bad that many, many months down the road, the state of Florida actually threatened to sue the group in order to get the ads taken down. And it was a multimillion dollar buy that they spent in digital advertisements, geo fencing around these hospitals and these clinics and trying to scare people. Now, in that Case. I'm sitting there thinking, what. What in the heck is. Like, the law is very clear. I actually pulled up my phone. I was reading. Reading the law to. To one of the hospital administrators and the nurse and the doctor right there in the room. And they said, we understand, but we've got to do some checking before we do anything. And I'm like, if I bleed out, like, how long. I asked my husband, like, please Google how long does it take to die if you have internal bleeding? And that was a very, very stressful situation. And at that point, I'm just like, what in the heck? Now I have been mercilessly attacked to the point of multiple. I'm talking dozens and dozens of death threats from people around the country because I've told this story. You know, everyone says I called the governor and got an exception. Total bullshit. That's such a lie. It's 11:30 at night. I called the governor's office. Not the governor, the governor's office, to try to get legal counsel from their office on the phone because there was no one else I could call to have them explain to the doctors, to the hospital administrators that the law, in fact, said, one, life of the mother, rape, incest. And this was clearly life of the mother situation. Two, there was no heartbeat. My baby had died. I had no chance of this being a viable pregnancy. And after I told this story, I cannot tell you how many people came out and. And, like I said, mercilessly, horrifically attacked me. To this day, I mean, I get it from people all over because they don't know the facts, and they don't want to know the facts. They're either pro life or pro choice. One of the things that was really frustrating to me was people thought it was the pro life community that was attacking me. It actually was the pro choice community that came out and said, this is what. This is what happens. You know, you should have died, you should have bled out. You should have done all these things. They've, you know, threatened my daughter, you know, and it's just. It's a really sad situation because the entire time I was going through that, I kept asking, what about the women who don't have doctors? What about the women who don't have resources? What about. It was very clear in that moment that whether you're pro life or you're pro choice, the politics around this issue are hurting women. I don't care what side you find yourself on, the politics around this are hurting women. And it. It was something that put me down a path Of I literally rent, went and read all 50 states laws that are on the books and not one, not one says that you cannot help a woman in the case of life of the mother in jeopardy. And that to me is something that has gotten lost in translation in the politics.
- [47:13]
Tara Palmeri (Interviewer)
First of all, that is an, a horrible situation. And I, I really, I can only imagine what that was like. So I'm so sorry you went through that, but I just want to pull back a little bit from there. Yes. I think the disinformation campaign is horrible. Right. Obviously intended to confuse, create chaos and show the weakness in the law. Right. Or at least the impression that these laws haven't been properly communicated to hospitals. The people who are in charge of this have not been, you know, trained, they haven't received, you know, they don't have awareness from even the government, the administrators. And why, why do you have to go through an administrative process before in a life threatening situation? Like, I'm pretty sure if I showed up in the ER with, you know, a heart attack, nobody's going to have to like check the law to make sure they have to. They cannot. You know, I don't know what you do exactly to save someone from a heart attack, but the point is to go into life saving mode. So clearly there are some flaws in this law. But I mean, you have to understand that a law that has a penalty like that is going to breed disinformation, whether it's accurate or not. And so, I mean, does it make you at least want to rethink these abortion laws in some way? I mean, the fact that they can be so easily manipulated?
- [48:35]
Congresswoman Kat Kamek
Yeah, I mean, I think there's a couple things here after that experience, but then of course. Oh, I'll get emotional. You have to give me a second.
- [49:02]
Tara Palmeri (Interviewer)
You went through something that I hope most women never face, never face any. And it's a horrible experience. Yeah.
- [49:16]
Congresswoman Kat Kamek
Oh, you got me good on this one.
- [49:19]
Tara Palmeri (Interviewer)
I'm sorry.
- [49:26]
Congresswoman Kat Kamek
After that, but then after my, our rainbow baby, Augie, after she was born, I mean, talking about how I look at the situation, protecting life is. It is the realest issue for me. And I think that situation and the birth of my daughter definitely has made me more of an advocate for life. I do think, and this is beyond this issue, women's health care has been reduced to this issue and maybe one or two others. And it is a horrible disservice to women because there are so many things that are unique to women and women's health care that don't get addressed because of some reason or another. And in talking about the way that these are written and these are communicated, we absolutely have to do a better job. And we have to understand the danger of playing politics with issues like this because it's real people's lives. You know, the fact that I have to have a deputy parked in my driveway 247 because I was willing to share my story is ridiculous. And I know that there's women that have gone through similar situations in different parts of the country, that they had a different outcome, they had a different set of circumstances, and we should be willing to talk about the situations and these circumstances and these experiences without fear of someone threatening your life. And the issue, it's. It's really tough. It is a tough issue. I would say that there is a way that we as women, and I think it's. It has to be women, because we are uniquely. We are uniquely positioned to talk about this. Can come together and talk about ways that we can protect women and we can protect kids. I think that that can happen. But we have to be willing to stop immediately assuming that the headline tells the whole story. I came forward to tell my story because I wanted one woman. Just even one woman felt a little bit less alone.
- [52:19]
Shopify Advertiser
Yeah.
- [52:19]
Congresswoman Kat Kamek
It would have been worth it.
- [52:21]
Tara Palmeri (Interviewer)
Yeah.
- [52:22]
Congresswoman Kat Kamek
Oh. So, yeah. But I found that there's a reason why women don't tell their stories. Yeah.
- [52:32]
Tara Palmeri (Interviewer)
Yeah.
- [52:32]
Tara Palmeri
I mean, this is a existential crisis
- [52:34]
Tara Palmeri (Interviewer)
that we're going through right now for a lot of people, and I wish it wasn't this way, but hopefully, I mean, when. I think when you're fighting for women, whether you like the term or not, I would put you in the feminist bucket, whether it's. But I know we don't.
- [52:55]
Congresswoman Kat Kamek
I don't think the feminist movement would appreciate that.
- [52:58]
Tara Palmeri (Interviewer)
Well, I appreciate your honesty. I'm sure, you know, everyone is going to have a different take on. On. On your experience. I'm sorry that you faced. You faced violence because of that and threats. There's no excuse for that in public. This worse. And I'm really happy, though, that you have a daughter now and you have this, a great family, and I'm really excited to see what you do in Washington, cleaning it up, see how it goes, hope there's political will behind it.
- [53:28]
Congresswoman Kat Kamek
Oh, well, I think. I think there is the political will to clean it up. I. I really do. I think that there. There is a tide that is turning where people are starting to see, in many ways, less of the political labels and more of. Of the. Hey, I feel like this is the right thing to do. So we need to do this because it is something that transcends politics. And whether we're talking about women and women, women's health care, or we're talking about getting the creeps out of Congress, I think that you'll find that to be true.
- [54:01]
Progressive Insurance Advertiser
Yeah.
- [54:03]
Tara Palmeri (Interviewer)
I will say, after hearing your story, it would terrify me to have a child in Florida. I hate to say it shouldn't.
- [54:11]
Congresswoman Kat Kamek
It shouldn't. Florida, great. Florida is a great place.
- [54:14]
Tara Palmeri (Interviewer)
I know. Like, hearing that, I'm just like, wait, what? It would really, really, really terrify me.
- [54:21]
Congresswoman Kat Kamek
No, I don't think so. I, I reject. I mean, like I said, that situation that I faced was, that was a very deliberate campaign that was. They intended to inspire fear. And they achieved it. They achieved their goal. And like I said, it blows my mind to this day that we can't even have a conversation about, about what I mean. And I'll even say, I mean treatment for miscarriages and ectopics. And again, I continually get attacked for this. But, but, you know, follow the science. You know, it's not classified as abortion. And you know, that's another thing.
- [55:07]
Tara Palmeri (Interviewer)
It's.
- [55:07]
Congresswoman Kat Kamek
You conflate terms. People, they continue to conflate terms and, you know, use misinformation and disinformation and it's deliberate and who gets hurt in the end? It's women. It's women, it's kids. And I think when we're talking about how do we, how do we protect people, it's just look at the facts. Facts. Just look at the facts. And in the case of Florida, the facts were there, but like, you know,
- [55:34]
Tara Palmeri (Interviewer)
whatever the time is for the admin, who knows? I mean, everyone's been in a situation like where admin in a hospital, in a medical situation just takes a long time. Whether you're in the waiting room or you're trying to get your referral or you're waiting. So that, but imagining that sort of admin, whether it's over disinformation or it's getting the checks or looking at the law like that would just like, scare me. I have to admit it. Like, that would terrify me that I would have to go through that process.
- [56:02]
Congresswoman Kat Kamek
I'll tell you, the healthcare system should scare everyone because it is completely fundamentally broke. And I know that's a topic for another day, but I mean, you could take this issue, you could take a million different issues. We don't have a health care system in the country. We've got a sick care system. And that is one thing that I know, Republicans and Democrats and independents, we all agree that system is broke and it should terrify every single one of us how how bad it has gotten. So I'll say the health care system should scare you, not Florida.
- [56:38]
Tara Palmeri (Interviewer)
Yeah, the health care system is pretty terrifying everywhere.
- [56:41]
Congresswoman Kat Kamek
It is, it is.
- [56:42]
Tara Palmeri (Interviewer)
But add in some laws on top of the bureaucracy and I'm just like, yeah, but I appreciate your candor and I appreciate your honesty and like it's really, I'm sorry you had to go through that. And you know, it takes a lot of bravery to tell your story. So thank you for telling it.
- [57:00]
Congresswoman Kat Kamek
Well, I appreciate the time. Thank you.
- [57:02]
Tara Palmeri
That was another episode of the Tara Palmieri Show. Thank you for tuning in. As you can see, I decided this conversation was necessary. I believe it helps illuminate the real world consequences and complexities of policies that are debated in abstract. Here is a powerful congresswoman speaking out publicly about her experience firsthand, showing us how the laws that her party supports can support can impact an innocent life. And just so you know, for the sake of transparency, there were no conditions attached to this interview. No topics were off limit limits at all. But for me, I learned something and I hope you did too. Thank you for watching. And as always, you can support the show by hitting the subscribe button. Sharing this with someone who needs to hear it. Following liking go to tarapaulmieri.com if you become a paid subscriber, you can support this type of independent journalism in public service to you. I want to thank my producer Abby Baker. I want to thank Dan Schiffmacher who did the editing, Adam Stewart who does the graphics, and Dan Rosen and Nicole Staple, my managers. See you again soon.
- [58:12]
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