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- [00:00]
Tara Palmeri
This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. You chose to hit play on this podcast today. Smart choice. Make another smart choice with Auto Quote Explorer to compare rates from multiple car insurance companies all at once. Try it@progressive.com Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates not available in all states or situations. Prices vary based on how you buy.
- [00:27]
Lee McGowan
Further redactions are happening as we speak of what they've already put out. So that means that the DOJ and the FBI are still scrubbing these files even after their release. And I want to just be clear, the American taxpayer is paying for this, right? We are paying for tens of millions of dollars to hide the evidence of our billionaire president's involvement in this and his rich and important friends who have clearly paid to get their names out of this as well. We are paying. We are paying to help them get away.
- [00:59]
Tara Palmeri
Foreign.
- [01:06]
Lee McGowan
Hello and welcome to the Politics Girl Podcast. I'm your host, Lee McGowan. Let's get into it. Well, we were supposed to have Marco Elias on today, but because the Epstein files were not really released on Friday as they were supposed to be, I thought that's really what we should be talking about today. So brilliant. Mark will be joining us at the top of the new year to talk about how to save democracy in 26. And today we'll be talking to my friend Tara Palmieri. Tara is a former White House correspondent for ABC News where she covered the first Trump administration, was chief national correspondent for Politico during the Biden administration, and has been a political analyst for cnbc, CBS and cnn. But I'm having her on today because she hosted two acclaimed podcasts on Jeffrey Epstein called Broken Jeffrey Epstein and Power the Maxwells. Tara is one of those old school journalists who is both feared and fearless. Her work is deeply sourced and she stands outside of mainstream media's drama to really bring us the truth. She has also become friends with the Epstein survivors, particularly Virginia Giuffre before her death, and is privy to details of the case that weren't even in Virginia's book. So without further ado, please welcome my guest, American journalist, host of the Tara Palmeri show on YouTube and author of the Red Letter newsletter. Tara Palmeri, Welcome, Tara.
- [02:22]
Tara Palmeri
Thanks for having me. It's so exciting to be here.
- [02:25]
Lee McGowan
Thank you so much for coming. I mean, you have probably, against your better judgment, become an expert on everything Epstein. And as you and I discussed when we were both recently on CNN together, it's exhausting, right? It's exhausting to be in this repulsive narrative all the time. You can't really escape from it. So I'm very grateful that you have taken the time to come on today and really fill people in on the things that they need to know as this nightmare seemingly continues.
- [02:51]
Tara Palmeri
Yeah. So, I mean, I started covering the Epstein story around the time that he died. I was brought into a podcast that Julie K. Brown, the Miami Herald journalist who rebroke the story again by exposing the injustice in the Department of Justice with a sweetheart deal. She was the executive producer on it. It's called Broken Jeffrey Epstein. You can still listen to it. And in the second season, I travel around the country with Virginia Giuffre, who is one of his most prominent survivors. You know, she accused Prince Andrew of rape and was awarded a settlement by the crown, and it was a really historic thing. I have been following this story for a really long time. I've always been really incensed by the injustice. I don't see this from a political lens, and it really bothers me how much it is becoming political. It's just such a disservice to the survivors, who are just collateral damage and all of it. I've just gotten to know the survivors so well. Virginia, another survivor. Marika, who I worked really closely with. Jane Doe, one amazing woman. I mean, there are just so many of them that I got to know through this. This story. And, like, I really became inspired by them and their strength and their ability to speak up about this horrible thing that happened to them.
- [04:06]
Sponsor/Ad Voice
And.
- [04:06]
Tara Palmeri
And, you know, after three decades of. Of never getting justice, they're still ready and willing to fight. And it's sad to me that, like, this is supposed to be, you know, the moment, the final act in this horror where they get their justice. Right. Like, this is supposed to be the moment when government is brought to its knees. We're supposed to get all the secrets. We're supposed to know the truth. And again, they are being. They are being disregarded. And it's all about politics and power.
- [04:37]
Lee McGowan
Yeah, politics and power. I mean, at this point, we know that there's just hundreds, if not thousands of women that have gone through this horror.
- [04:44]
Tara Palmeri
And.
- [04:45]
Lee McGowan
And it goes well beyond Jeffrey Epstein, the man himself. Right. Like, I know some of the details, but most people only know the rumors or the bits and pieces that the media allows us to have. So if you don't mind, I'd love to start by just backing it up and giving people some context right off the top. You know, what is it that you think people should know about Jeffrey Epstein? Who he is, what he and Ghislaine Maxwell did, how it relates to our president and. And, you know, obviously, big wigs around the world. And finally, why it is important that people understand this case.
- [05:19]
Tara Palmeri
One thing I do want to point out, though, you said hundreds of women. Actually, the FBI estimated a thousand victims. So. And that's probably a conservative number, by the way, which shows you that this might have been the largest sex trafficking operation of our time. And it was only made possible through the help of major banks, heads of institutions, law enforcement. By not pursuing him the many times they had the chance to politicians who made phone calls for him to try to stop his prosecution that ended in a sweetheart deal. It was made possible because he was protected because of his wealth and his power. I was reading a New York Times piece this weekend about how he made money, and it was. It's fascinating, you know, like, he basically conned a ton of really wealthy people into thinking that he could either, A, find their missing money as, like, some sort of financial bounty hunter, B, help them with their prenups or their wills, saying that you can't trust the people around you. You can trust me. Or doing other shady deals in which he invests in funds, takes a percentage of it. The funds don't always work out. I mean, one of the first criminal activities that we know of that he got involved with was a $300 million Ponzi scheme with Stephen Hoffenberg.
- [06:34]
Lee McGowan
You're already deeper than most people know. I'm going to stop you for a second because I just want to say I'm going to walk you through something and you tell me if I'm wrong. Okay? So, like, is it fair for me to say that we are looking at a multi decade, multi country, multi government human trafficking enterprise?
- [06:49]
Tara Palmeri
Absolutely.
- [06:50]
Lee McGowan
Okay, so how Epstein starts out, he's this guy who doesn't finish college. He gets a job teaching at this elite east coast boarding school.
- [07:01]
Tara Palmeri
It's just a regular school. A regular school. Picky about the details. Elite school, like Anderson Cooper Went there.
- [07:08]
Lee McGowan
Okay, so he gets this job at Dalton at this elite school. I think it was actually Bill Barr's dad who hired him, who brought him in for that job.
- [07:17]
Tara Palmeri
Yes, it was. He was a headmaster.
- [07:19]
Lee McGowan
So then he moves to. From teaching to working at Bear Stearns, and then he's managing people's money, like you said, like, how does he get this job? Right? How does he have access to these really rich people? He didn't have a degree, let alone an mba. Why would he be offered these positions, like, to me, starting right there on its own, none of that makes sense. Unless he wasn't hired to be a teacher. He wasn't hired to be a money manager. I mean, he did the jobs, but it feels like he was kind of this willing middleman for bigger people who wanted bigger things. Does any of that make sense to you?
- [07:55]
Tara Palmeri
Yeah. And the interesting thing is that actually he was such a bad teacher and he was, like, known for pursuing some of the students, the younger male, female students, that he was actually going to be let go if he didn't get this job. Job at Bear. I think it was. Bear Stearns. Yeah. Yeah. Ace Greenberg was a parent of one of the teachers at Dalton and thought that he was a math wizard and he deserved something better than just being a school teacher. But, you know, he had this way of charming really powerful people and getting them to do what he wanted. And in the, in the case of Ace Greenberg, the way he was able to convince him to hire him without an actual degree was that he was like, I'm a poor kid from Coney island, but I'm hungry. I desperately want to be rich just like you. Give me a shot and I promise I won't let you down. And that's a really compelling thing. Plus, he clearly had some talent in terms of being a mathematician, and he. He had charm. And like, in these financial jobs, it's really important to be charming. You can't just be a math wizard.
- [08:59]
Lee McGowan
You have to be able to schmooze the parties. You have to be able to schmooze the clients. Like, a lot of these people who are math geniuses don't actually do as well because they can't do party part. They can't do the socializing part.
- [09:09]
Tara Palmeri
Right.
- [09:09]
Lee McGowan
I mean, it's funny because it's interesting to hear you say that he's good at math because I've. I've heard over the years. And again, I'm going to hit you up with a lot of rumors that Jeffrey Epstein himself is not really that smart. In many ways, he's a useful idiot for a lot of smarter people. Like Ghislaine Maxwell, in many ways was really the mastermind, maybe under the tutelage of her father or other forces. But Jeffrey was the charming one, and he was the one open to playing around with all the girls. He was willing to do whatever needed to be done to keep the lifestyle and the power structure in play. Am I correct in thinking that Ghislaine Maxwell's dad was really well connected in this situation, even through organizations like Mossad? Which for most people, if you don't know what Mossad is, is the Israeli equivalent of the CIA.
- [09:56]
Tara Palmeri
It's interesting. I actually did a six part series on Glenn Maxwell's family called Power the Maxwells and about Glenn and a lot of it is about Robert because a lot of most people don't know this, but he was a larger than life figure. He was the contemporary to Rupert Murdoch at the time, owned so many publications across the world, they bid on properties together. He owned the New York Daily News, the Mirror, it's a paper in the UK, very influential. MTV Europe, Peregrine Press, so many. McMillan, one point. He was a member of Parliament, he was a very influential person. And yes, he did know Jeffrey Epstein through Ace Greenberg. And the truth about Jeffrey Epstein is he wasn't dumb. He, you have to have a certain level of, you could say street smarts to come.
- [10:42]
Lee McGowan
Like Trump, Trump, street smarts, that kind of level.
- [10:44]
Tara Palmeri
Yeah, I think he's smarter than Trump. I think he was probably smarter than Trump. Trump had $100 million out of the bank. Like being born with a silver spoon based from his father, you know, Jeffrey Epstein came from nothing and so he conned his way into that. And the thing that fascinates me is how he got away with it for so long and that so many of these very wealthy people didn put him on a blacklist of like, do not work with this guy, you will get bilked. But perhaps they were embarrassed by the fact that they were scammed from him and they didn't want to talk about it. That, that is fascinating to me that they wouldn't have just because I think in like normal world, if, you know, as a journalist, it's like if you have a bad reputation as a journalist, you will have problems getting jobs, you'll have problems doing interviews, you have problems with everything, you know, in any profession. But for some reason he was able to con people and help and lose their money for the first part of his career until he had amassed enough that he was able to get away with it. Is where the blackmail thing comes in. The blackmail part is what I believe helped him sustain the con for so long, is that he was creating a lifestyle in which young girls were trafficked to men. And that allowed him to continue to steal their money without any repercussion because he knew that there was a social penalty for them if they exposed what they knew about Jeffrey Epstein. So he really, you know, he almost had like KGB style tactics. He really was quite sophisticated in that way. I don't Think Ghislaine Maxwell was some sort of mastermind. I think Galen Maxwell was desperate for money. Her father died, Robert Maxwell fell off the side of the boat mysteriously, possibly connected to Mossad because he may have been compromised by the fact that he stole all the pensioners money from the Mirror Group. And it was becoming revealed so he was obviously a con artist himself and she needed money and so she moves to New York and that is where she meets Jeffrey Epstein. Well, she met Jeffrey Epstein before that when her f. Father was still alive. But she moves to New York and starts quote unquote dating Jeffrey Epstein. But really it's more about, you know, grooming and procuring women and she's able to keep living the lifestyle that she was accustomed to under daddy. But with Jeffrey Epstein footing the bill now, it wasn't for free. She wasn't just his girlfriend, she had to find girls for him. And it's, it's, it's, it's a disgusting story. And she was craven in her desire for wealth and her, and her desire to continue to live a life of luxury. But she also offered Jeffrey Epstein things that he didn't have. She taught him how to mingle in upper class, you know, society, how to say the right things, how to dress the right way. She cleaned up someone who was a kid from Coney island and she had a Rolodex unlike anyone else because, because her father was like I say an equal to Rupert Murdoch. She was like an Elizabeth Murdoch. You know, she had access to Prince Andrew, she had access to Bill Clinton, she had access to various important people including Donald Trump who she met when she was very young through her father who used to hang out with Donald Trump on his yacht, the Lady Galen. So you know, this, this was her world and Jeffrey desperately wanted to be a part of that. So she was the perfect person to give him entree into that world. And not only that, when he was trying to recruit these young girls, they're not going to show up at a 50 year old man's house on their own. But if a woman who's posh, has a cute little dog name gmax is telling them they're wonderful and they're beautiful and seducing them because she was also a seducer herself, you know, can get them into his house, that certainly helps as well. So they needed each other to pull this off.
- [14:20]
Lee McGowan
That's why it's so sickening that they have moved Ghislaine from a high security prison to where she is now in like a club Fed where she has like, you know, her own meals and she is doing exercise and she's like, she can learn whatever she wants and she might get a pardon is that she was so deeply involved in this. When I was growing up, when I was 15, 215 year old girls were tortured and raped and murdered by a man named Paul Bernardo. And it was a huge, huge crime in Canada at the time. And it was the same age I was at the time. But the only reason he was able to get away with it was because his wife was the one finding the girls. And the girls would trust the woman and the girls would go with the woman. The first victim was the wife's sister. So it was like this heinous crime. And then she ended up, you know, having a very reduced sentence. She ended up getting out of jail, getting married, moving to the Caribbean, having children. And everyone that knows that story in Canada, the Bernardo story, is sickened by it because we know that without her, there would be no him. And I think with this Ghislaine Maxwell thing, it's the same thing. And I think if you think that it's bigger than just two people and their, you know, desire for money, that there were other things involved. I really do think it was a massive blackmail operation. And I. That is one of the things that I hope we will have come out. How many people were involved? How many organizations, how many levels of government? Because at the very least, we know this is bigger than one man trafficking young girls. And I think that's why so many people are so interested in the Epstein files. So let's back up to 2008. Let's say, tell me why we didn't just catch and stop Epstein when he was charged with sex trafficking minors in Florida in 2008. Why did this bullshit continue? A Mochi moment from Mark, who writes, I just want to thank you for making GLP1s affordable.
- [16:08]
Tara Palmeri
What would have been over $1,000 a.
- [16:10]
Lee McGowan
Month is just $99 a month with.
- [16:12]
Tara Palmeri
Mochi money shouldn't be a barrier to healthy weight.
- [16:16]
Lee McGowan
Three months in and I have smaller.
- [16:17]
Tara Palmeri
Jeans and a bigger wallet. You're the best.
- [16:20]
Lee McGowan
Thanks, Mark. I'm Mayra Amit, founder of Mochi Health.
- [16:24]
Tara Palmeri
To find your mochi moment, visit joinmochi.com.
- [16:28]
Lee McGowan
Mark, is a mochi member compensated for his story? You tell me why we didn't just catch and stop Epstein when he was charged with sex trafficking minors in Florida in 2008. Why did this continue?
- [16:42]
Tara Palmeri
Can I just. Before I get into that, I just want to make one comment. Based on what you said. So according to Galen Maxwell's recent habeas petition.
- [16:51]
Lee McGowan
What is a habeas petition?
- [16:53]
Tara Palmeri
It's a petition to try to get out of jail. Okay, so she said one of the plaintiffs that sued her, I have to assume, I think I know who this plaintiff is. Settled with 25 men. 25 men. Okay? So just think about that. When everyone's like, it was just Jeffrey, right? It's like, no, that, that is not what happened. So consider that for a minute. Now let's rewind to 2008. That's when he actually goes to jail. But this was a case that started, and that's county jail, not prison, where he belonged for 13 months with an ankle bracelet half the time and the ability to abuse women while he was under house arrest because he was able to go to his office and do it.
- [17:32]
Lee McGowan
Just so people are clear, he. He served 13 months of an 18 months county jail sentence. He pleaded guilty to two state prosecution charges, but he was given work release privileges, which allowed him to leave jail up to 16 hours a day, seven days a week, and work from his Palm beach house and his office. And the whole thing was over by this guy named Alexander, which people call Alex Acosta, who went on to become the U.S. attorney for the Southern District of Florida and then served as Trump's labor secretary before having to leave. Because this stuff started to come out, right?
- [18:05]
Tara Palmeri
This started in 2004, and it started as a state case. And he had a very powerful lawyer behind him. His name is Alan Dershowitz, who was also friendly with Bill Clinton at the time. He was a prominent Democratic lawyer. And he was able to convince the prosecutors in Palm Beach, a man named Barry Krisher, who was the state attorney at the time, and he convinced him basically not to indict. I looked through some of the grand jury files and did some of the reporting, and I called around, I knocked on doorbells of people that were involved and talked to some of the people and, and they, Alan Dershowitz pulled up MySpace pages of these girls and made them seem like they were lustful little nymphs that were teenagers that wanted to be. That wanted to be, have a sexual relationship with a 50 year old wealthy man and, you know, said that they smoked pot, had boyfriends, did this or that. And then, you know, the deputy state attorney who was handling this, the deputy prosecutor, she literally said to the grand jury, there are no victims here.
- [19:13]
Lee McGowan
Which is the same thing Pam Bondi is saying. She's saying, oh, we've got thousands of victims but no Johns. Right? Like, she's saying that now.
- [19:21]
Tara Palmeri
It was really horrible. And the Palm Beach Chief of Police, Michael Ryder, put together a really substantial case. So did the Detective Rickari. I. I have heard and listened to the transcripts. I played one of them when Megan Kelly suggested that, you know, these were just barely legal girls, and I wanted people to hear that. One of them called his penis a wee wee. She was so young. She was 14 years old. And, like, the way they talk, the sound of their voices, I think it's pretty unmistakable, the fact that these were children. So they say there are no victims here. They dropped the case to Ryder. He's like, this is not good enough. I'm furious. This is horrible. Parents are coming in, they're complaining. This is insane. So he goes to Alex Acosta, who was the U.S. attorney at the time in Southern Florida, and he said, we got to do something about this case. So the case gets kicked over to the state attorney. U.S. attorney is what they're called. It's kind of confusing. The State Attorney is actually the attorney for the county of Palm Beach. The U.S. attorney is actually for the state. So he is the U.S. attorney, Alex Acosta, he deals with federal law, and he argues that this was actually a federal case because these girls were trafficked across state lines. And this woman named Maria Villafana, she's a prosecutor there, she worked on this case very diligently. She. She really worked on it for a long time. She had, I think, an 80 page prosecution memo, tons of dep. She convinced Jane Doe one a lot of reluctant girls who actually had their lawyers paid for by Jeffrey Epstein. And Jeffrey was telling them, your prostitutes, you're lucky that I am giving you the money and the lawyers to defend yourselves, because you're in the wrong here. And these girls are so young, they don't even know any better. So they're like, oh, you're so great, Jeffrey. Thank you for covering me. I'm the prostitute here. It's insanity. And. But she managed to put together an amazing case, almost putting together a money laundering case. But here's the thing. Jeffrey was so rich that he could hire the best lawyers and have people make phone calls at the highest levels of power. This went all the way up to the Attorney General's office in, you know, during the Bush administration, by the way. So Alan Dershowitz, hotshot lawyer, able to convince Democrat Barry Krisher, the State attorney, not to indict. Then you have Ken Starr, who's a hotshot. Obviously, everyone knows who he is.
- [21:36]
Lee McGowan
It's like a who's who. This case is like a who's who. Alan Dershowitz, Ken Starr.
- [21:40]
Tara Palmeri
He could afford it. He could afford it. And so he convinces Alex Acosta, who sees Ken Starr as idol, to also not prosecute and just do a sweetheart deal. Here's the rub though. They do this sweetheart deal 13 months, they purposely don't tell the victims about the deal. According to the Crime Victims Rights act, you have to tell the victims what the sentencing deal is, what they plead guilty to. And it's such a crazy non prosecution agreement. All co conspirators, named and unnamed, could never be prosecuted. That's insanity. And you have to understand, like for a massive sex trafficking operation that requires a lot of people, right, moving people across country and then also just the idea of like other Johns. So this is an unheard of non prosecution agreement. The girls don't know anything about it. They realize that, wait, this isn't right. Something happened. The Brad Edwards, the lawyer, realizes this and he demands information about it. And it was too late. They're like, it's done. Sorry, it's too late. Marie Villafania says she really regrets not pushing back harder. You know, there, there are times that I get like angry about it and I'm like, you should have done more. But then there are times that I'm like, was it out of her hands? You know, and I mean, obviously Alex Acosta is 100% in the wrong here. Then the case is kicked back to the state and he pleads guilty to procuring a minor for prostitution, which is like a disgusting, that's even just a disgusting charge. I mean, like as if a minor can be a prostitute. And so it's just, it's a horrible, horrible, unheard of sweetheart deal. And yeah, it was made possible by a lot of money, a lot of connections and wooing these men. Barry Krish or the state attorney and Alex Acosta, the US Attorney with hotshot lawyers. I do think though that Jeffrey Epstein, because he was helpful to US Intelligence during the Bear Stearns case and according to Vicky Ward's reporting and Stephen Hoffenberg, the, the Ponzi scheme case, that he helped prosecutors with that because obviously he got off and his partner went to jail forever, that he may have been seen as a sort of Whitey Bulger type where, you know, he was seen as more valuable as an asset, as an intelligence asset.
- [23:59]
Lee McGowan
I think he was an intelligence asset. I think he was an intelligence asset from the beginning. I don't think he was just a, you know, Like a helpful guy in the, in the world of politics and government and finances, I think he was an actual asset, whether it was of the CIA or Mossad. I mean, that's what I personally think. But I think that the bottom line here is the victims, the victims have been maligned and undermined and victimized again and again by the lack of transparency and accountability and justice. And I think that's why it's such a kick in the face after everything has been done. And they have worked so hard to have, you know, the original deal from 2008 invalidated from their claims that go all the way back to the 90s that were ignored, that the current Justice Department has blocked these files from coming to light after they campaigned on releasing them. Right. Trump's Department of Justice under Pam Bondi and Trump's personal lawyer, Todd Blanch. You know, they just failed to comply with what was basically a unanimous congressional law to release all the files on Friday, December 19th. So this pathetic release of the Epstein transparency.
- [25:06]
Tara Palmeri
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- [26:19]
Lee McGowan
Is going on here? Because what they released is not what they are supposed to release and they are clearly not complying with the law.
- [26:26]
Tara Palmeri
They missed their deadline. That's one thing for sure. You know, they've already missed their. They were supposed to release all the files on Friday There's a lot of rejections. We know that a photograph was pulled that was of President Trump, and then under pressure, they had to put it back into the files. Even just the ordering of the pictures by, like, highlighting Bill Clinton at the top.
- [26:46]
Lee McGowan
They're clearly doing a look over here, wizard of Oz situation. I mean, the thing is, if people don't understand, the Epstein Transparency act required the Trump DOJ to release the complete and unredacted Epstein files, to make them publicly available in a downloadable, searchable format. With the only exception for redactions being to protect the identities of the victims, to protect ongoing investigations. And in the case of national security, the redactions were not allowed to protect the identities of the perpetrators. They were not allowed to protect people who might be involved on the periphery and save them from embarrassment. If they did redact anything, they were supposed to have what's called a redaction log explaining why they redacted the line in this section. They have not done this. They have at least, I think, 95,000 photos from the estate. They have 300 gigabytes of data. They have boxes of physical evidence with tapes and video recordings, which they have stalled on releasing for almost a year. We know that a thousand FBI agents worked in 24 hour shifts scrubbing Donald Trump's name from the files. And then they just took another 30 days from when the Epstein Transparency act was passed. And I can only assume Trump signed it, because they were like, it's okay. We got your name out of everything. And then, like you said, the photo that came out in the first dump, they were like, oh, shit, we missed this one. And they pulled it. But, I mean, what we're looking at is just. Just. It's just over 1% of what they have. And what they released is completely, if not totally redacted and useless in many parts. And there's no log. The whole thing feels like a fucking joke, if you'll excuse my language. Like, it's. It's an insult to everyone that wants transparency, and it's certainly an insult to all the poor victims that have had to wait and wait and wait.
- [28:41]
Tara Palmeri
Absolutely an insult. It's an insult to the American people, too. I mean, they're smart enough to know better than this, I think, and it just creates more questions. The national security loophole is one that I've always thought about because, like, you know, I do think that the part of the reason why Epstein was protected was because of his relationship to Prince Andrew and various other world leaders that he was close with. Like, Ehud Barack. There are many others. You know, there are just so many, like, reasons why I think they could argue the national security loophole and maybe use that as a reason to not disclose that he was perhaps an asset. I think ongoing investigations. While we know the President has said that there needs to be an investigation to Democrats tied to Epstein, he's ordered it up. I mean, if that's not the most political thing you've ever heard, the politicization of it is really, really, really gross. And like, even the way Caroline Levitt was, like, sharing the picture of Bill Clinton in the tub, which is disturbing and wrong, but, like, the fact that the press secretary for the United States of America is like, this is so cool, huh? We gotcha. It's like, do you not understand how many lives have been broken and damaged from all of this?
- [29:54]
Lee McGowan
Well, they're also trying to create a narrative, right? They have a picture of, of Bill Clinton and Michael Jackson and Diana Ross, and they've blocked out three what are clearly children, implying that they are part of this. This thing where it's really a picture that a lot of people have seen because it was in a public fundraiser. And the three children that are blocked out are two of Michael Jackson's children and one of Diana Ross's children. Like, they were just at an event and they're putting it out there to deliberately muddy the water, which is gross. I know. There are at least 16 pictures missing now on Monday when we record this. Further redactions are happening as we speak of what they've already put out. So that means that the DOJ and the FBI are still scrubbing these files even after their release. And I want to just be clear. The American taxpayer is paying, right? We are paying for tens of millions of dollars to hide the evidence of our billionaire president's involvement in this and his rich and important friends, who have clearly paid to get their names out of this as well. We are paying. We are paying to help them get away with this, right? Like, it, it is. It is disgusting. It appears to be, like what you were saying earlier, the largest sex trafficking, you know, of our time. But it also appears to be the greatest cover up by a president. And for a president in. It's clearly infected more than a dozen federal agencies, multiple countries, at least six presidents have had this kind of come through their Justice Departments. And it all involves crimes against children. So I just feel like, what in the hell are we doing here? Like, I know that Pam is out here trying to protect Trump, who is clearly involved. And I Don't know why we are pretending otherwise at this point. It is sickening. One of the only good things, in my opinion, to come out of Friday's pathetic file dump was that it vindicated a victim named Annie Fartley Farmer and her sister Maria, who have been saying since 1996 that they filed a police report and then they spoke to the FBI against EPSTEIN. And since 1996, they have been treated like they were kind of these lying, attention seeking. And the FBI report was in that first dump and it proves that they did file a report, they did go to the case, they did say what was happening, and yet they were let down over and over again by Clinton's doj, George W's doj, Obama's doj, Trump's doj, Biden's doj. And now we're seeing it again with Trump Tuesday. And this is 30 years later. And these girls have had zero justice. But for the very first time, you see that they have been telling the truth the whole time. I saw someone say the other day, you know, across social media platforms, that it's becoming far too obvious that the general public is getting too comfortable with the idea that we're just never going to know, right? That we're never going to find out that these powerful people are just going to get away with it, because that's how the world works. And I just feel like I don't think we can accept that. I mean, I don't think you can accept that. You knew Virginia, she died because of this, right? Like, these people cannot get away with this. This cannot be what happens. This is not normal politics. We can't accept it as normal politics. We can't say, well, this is just the way the world is. We have to say, if this is the way the world is, then we have to fricking change it. And it starts right now with accountability.
- [33:09]
Tara Palmeri
So I just want to rewind to what you said about Maria Farmer and Annie Farmer. You know, Maria faced threats, like serious threats from Galen Maxwell for going to the FBI. And she was young, she was an artist. She left the city, her life was completely ruined and derailed from that for doing the very brave thing of reporting what she saw as a very terrible injustice. And the FBI did nothing, literally nothing. Their job is to protect people. They did nothing. And instead, because she wasn't protected by law enforcement, Ghislaine Maxwell threatened her, threatened her life. So I think, like, we need to step back and really not just think about this as like, the Department of Justice, some big agency, but law enforcement that we actually pay as taxpayers to protect us. And they did not do that at any point. And you're right, it's been multiple administrations. I have wondered if, you know, the Democratic administrations didn't care to, to dig back into this because A, it makes just the entire Justice Department look bad, regardless of who owns it. And B, I mean, he was a Democrat, he spent a lot of time with Democrats, he donated to Democrats. And some of the men that, you know, Virginia accused of assault, like Senator Bill Richardson, Senator George Mitchell, they're Democrats, you know, and so Bill Clinton obviously is a good friend of, was of Epstein in terms of Trump was a Democrat when he was friends with Epstein. So it's like I, I wondered if it was partisan too at the time. And I mean, to me, I'm like, I'm not a, you know, I'm not a partisan, I'm just a journalist. But I've always been suspicious of both administrations, of both parties when it comes to this. I don't think either are clean. I mean, particularly the Republicans now because they have the power, there is public pressure and they should be doing the right thing. But, but at the same time, you know, this was something that the Biden administration didn't care to go anywhere near when Biden was president. I did write a piece for Politico magazine trying to explain like how Epstein was able to build his pyramid. But at that point, I mean, even the podcasts that I released, even though, you know, they were produced by Adam McKay, was one of the producers of Broke In. Jeffrey Epstein, he's an Academy Award winner, so is Kevin Messick. I mean, so these are really great pieces of journalism that advanced the story, got new reporting on the record from Jeffrey Epstein's houseman, and the public was less interested at the time. I think they were overwhelmed by Covid. How are the Maxwell's though? Did really, really well. It was, became a hit internationally. But like, you know, there was something, there was less interest. But it doesn't mean that just because the public isn't demanding it that they shouldn't have done something, done more.
- [35:52]
Lee McGowan
Yeah, but it's not even like the public doesn't need to know about internal crimes. It's why it keeps going back to me that it's an op, it's a blackmailing operation, that maybe the American government was well, well versed in and they didn't want the general public to know that this is how they were, you know, doing their business.
- [36:09]
Tara Palmeri
I think it's, I think that is still what it is.
- [36:11]
Lee McGowan
Yeah, so do I. I, I really do. I think it's gross and I think it doesn't matter who is involved. And I don't care if it makes our government look bad. I don't care if it makes the Israeli government look bad. I don't care if it makes the British government look bad. I don't care what Democrats are involved. Like at this point, however you've been doing your business, is this, if this is how we were doing things, oh, I'm going to photograph you with a young girl, or I'm going to give you a young girl, or whatever we are seeing in these heinous photos coming out of Epstein Island. Whatever was going on, if our government was turning a blind eye or involved in it because they were getting something out of it in a blackmail operation, it still must be uncovered because what we're looking at right now is a deliberate cover up. We cannot trust Cash Patel's FBI. We, you know, Dan Bongino is already leaving the job. We cannot trust Pam Bondi. I mean, it's all, it's actually possible she's involved in some way. You see all those pictures of her as a young lawyer in Florida with Trump and all those people. But so many people must know something now. You know, like, I wonder so often, like, why is no one coming forward with names? I mean, you know names, but you don't name them. The, the victims. No names. They don't name them. Bill Clinton himself, they're trying to tie it all to him right now. He was clearly in a ton of pictures that they released on Friday because they're trying to spin a narrative and blame him. But I feel like if he's involved, then send him to trial. But if he didn't do anything criminal, but he knows who did, then he should be coming forward at this point. You know what I mean? Like you've said, you know, a lot of the perpetrators and their names and they haven't come out yet.
- [37:39]
Tara Palmeri
I mean, there are a lot of names that have come out.
- [37:41]
Lee McGowan
I know, but people don't know for sure. Like, you're not like, it was this guy.
- [37:44]
Tara Palmeri
No, no, it's in a dep. It's in, they're in court documents, they're in depositions. If you believe a sworn testimony from a victim, then, yeah, then you should trust those names. Right.
- [37:54]
Lee McGowan
And where would people find those names if they were curious? Because I don't think people even know where to look anymore or what to trust.
- [37:59]
Tara Palmeri
I mean, if you looked at Virginia Giuffre's deposition, you would see that some of the names are unredacted, some are redacted, but some are unredacted. And you can see the names, like I said, Bill Richardson is in their. Senator Mitchell. Who else is in there that's unredacted?
- [38:15]
Lee McGowan
It's hard for you because, you know, names that are not unredacted, that's tough for you.
- [38:21]
Tara Palmeri
Yeah, I have to look at it.
- [38:23]
Lee McGowan
I just think, why are we all waiting for the Trump administration to do the right thing when we know that they won't? You know what I mean?
- [38:29]
Tara Palmeri
Yeah. I think it's really. I know that the judges in New York right now are deciding what to do with the redactions on these depositions. We'll see. Maybe they will release these details of a civil case without redactions. But I do think it would be really illuminating if that happened. You know, it's too bad because Virginia's not alive right now, you know, to tell her story. I mean, she did not my podcast, but even then, I mean, she accused Alan Dershowitz of Prince Andrew. Everyone's like, there are no other men. It's like, have you not been listening? I mean, there was a Jane Doe that accused President Trump that went under the name Katie Johnson. She withdrew her. Her complaint. According to Michael Cohen, he worked on another case with a quote, unquote, infant Jane Doe. I don't know anything about this, but I've been trying to find it that involved President Trump and them tracking down down the address of this Jane Doe, which I think is probably considered intimidation.
- [39:21]
Lee McGowan
Yeah. Which we know is part of the deal.
- [39:24]
Tara Palmeri
Yeah. So it's just like there are. There have been a lot of names. I mean, look at the fact that a lot of men have had to with resign from financial institutions.
- [39:34]
Lee McGowan
I mean, look, do you know that Steve Bannon's sitting on a ton of evidence? We know Michael Wolfe is sitting on a ton of evidence. Like, I just feel like it. It certainly seems like the right time to be a powerful predator. I have to tell you that. Like, why would anyone come forward now to tell a story about someone who is a powerful man under this Justice Department in this world? Watching how all this has played out, the whole thing feels so sickening and unacceptable to me.
- [40:04]
Tara Palmeri
Yeah, I agree. I mean, the. The truth is, is that there is lawfare and it's being, you know, displayed by the president suing the Wall Street Journal for, I think, $100 million or no, $10 billion. Sorry, something ridiculous like that. For just Publishing the birthday card. We're in a world right now where people are just firing off insane lawsuits at each other. And, and it protects the powerful.
- [40:29]
Lee McGowan
Yeah, it does. It protects the powerful and the wealthy. And honestly, anyone who wrote a birthday card to Jeffrey Epstein, anyone who did one of those drawings of Jeffrey with young girls around him or, or of our beautiful secrets, like Trump said, every single one of those people should be under surveillance. They should be being looked into. If you were that close that you did a birthday card for Jeffrey. You know what I mean? So, like, what do you think happens next? Does the DOJ just get away with not complying with the law? Is the law really dead in America? Because, I mean, look, how many women have to come forward and accuse even our President himself of sexual assault? I mean, the Epstein estate pictures that were released by the Democrats through the Congressional committee, they literally included pictures of Trump branded condoms for sale. You know, that said extra huge with lots of use. So it's obviously an inside joke for more than one person for there to be Trump branded condoms there. Like, and then you consider other pictures that were in that same release that include violent sex toys and a dentist chair that you could be strapped to and young girls bodies with the words from the book Lolita written on their skin and ball gags and men masks, which can be fine if you're two consenting adults, but are heinous if they are used by grown men on young girls against their will. The whole thing is so sick and it just cannot be something we just move past because, like, ah, this is how politics works.
- [41:52]
Tara Palmeri
I agree with you. I hope. I mean, the only way to continue to keep this alive is to either hold congressional hearings. I've heard that Ro Khanna and Thomas Massie have considered holding Attorney General Pam Bondi and in contempt.
- [42:07]
Lee McGowan
Yeah, they're drawing up the papers today. Yeah, yeah.
- [42:10]
Tara Palmeri
Could lead to possible impeachment. I mean, I know it might be hard to actually prosecute her in this administration, but that doesn't preclude her from future prosecution. Although, I mean, Trump might be able to give her a pardon.
- [42:22]
Lee McGowan
I'm glad that Ronna and Thomas Massie are doing this. I hope the Democrats get behind them. I still hope there are some Republicans who see this heinous story as just too much and a bridge too far. But, you know, all we have right now is 1% of these 300 gigabytes of information. Pam, you know, Pam herself said the files were on her desk and then she said she didn't have the files and Then she said they were still growing through the files and they had to keep them in because of the victims. You know, Epstein was trafficking these girls to no one. You know, but even without the files, we have the victims, we have photographs, we have that birthday book that you were talking about. And everything in this should be looked at, but clearly it's not going to be looked at by Trump's corrupt doj. Right. So I feel like at this point, point it's the court of public opinion until we can find our way to real justice. But in the court of public opinion, people can't actually be held accountable until we get a chance to take back the rule of law again. I mean, what would you have us watch for moving forward?
- [43:20]
Tara Palmeri
Shopping is hard. I can never find anything in my size. I don't even know my size. I buy my clothes the same place.
- [43:27]
Lee McGowan
I buy my groceries.
- [43:28]
Tara Palmeri
There's a better way. Make it easy with Stitch Fix.
- [43:32]
Lee McGowan
Just share your size, style, budget and done.
- [43:35]
Tara Palmeri
Your personal stylist sense pieces picked just for you. That was easy. Stitch Fix online personal styling for everyone. Free shipping and returns. No subscription required. Get started today@stitch fix.com. i'm just, I'm curious to see how the rest of the dumps go. What is the narrative around each stump? Trump. I'm curious to see what we find out about how much they're redacting from President Trump, what is redacted about him. If anything slips through by accident. I think we have to look out for mess ups because as we know, leadership at the DOJ is not the greatest. And I think, you know, we'll have a better picture of just how grossly mismanaged this was. And then in, I would have to assume be the next Congress because there's Republican leadership right now. But, but in the following Congress, hopefully they'll have hearings and like really do a proper investigation into this.
- [44:30]
Lee McGowan
Yeah, and hopefully the Democrats aren't too afraid to go after their own people because at the end of the day, this isn't political, it's criminal. And we need to keep that in mind. Thank you so much for talking to us about this. Please tell people how they can follow along with your work because you're doing so much good work and the best place to find you moving forward.
- [44:49]
Tara Palmeri
Thanks. You can go to tarapaul mary.com Only one I in Palmieri. T-A R A P A L M E r-I.com Sign up for the Red Letter. It's my newsletter. It's how you get exclusive reporting straight to your inbox and how you can support my independent journalism. And then you can go to my my podcast, the Tara Palmieri show, which you can watch on YouTube or listen to wherever you listen to your podcasts.
- [45:12]
Lee McGowan
At the end of the day, these girls deserve justice and we're not going to get it unless we are like a dog with a bone with the this. And I think we have to just show these people, these rich and powerful men that it's not going away just because they wanted to or because they.
- [45:25]
Tara Palmeri
Paid for it to precisely think you nailed that on the head. Can't buy justice.
- [45:30]
Lee McGowan
Can't buy justice, baby. I mean, you can, but we're going to stop it.
- [45:34]
Tara Palmeri
Thank you. Happy holidays.
- [45:36]
Lee McGowan
You too.
- [45:38]
Tara Palmeri
That was another episode of the Tara Palmary Show. Happy holidays. I am so sorry that you are having to listen to all of this over the holidays. You know, if you like this show, please rate, subscribe, share it with your friends and leave comments. I want to hear what you think. All of it. I want to thank my producer, Eric Abanate. I want to thank Abby Baker, who does social media and research for me. I want to thank Dan Rosen, my manager and Adam Stewart on my graphics. And of course, go to tara palary.com where you can keep following my reporting. I will keep updating it. This is a horrific story that we are sadly all having to take in over Christmas. I hope that the victims are doing okay and you know that they're processing the fact that they have been made into collateral damage yet again.
- [46:22]
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