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The Tara Palmeri Show
Why Republicans Refuse to Release the Epstein Files - Charlie Sykes Joins
00:40:55
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- [00:00]
Tara Palmeri
Your sausage McMuffin with egg didn't change your receipt did the sausage McMuffin with egg extra value meal includes a hash brown and a small coffee for just $5 only at McDonald's for a limited time.
- [00:14]
Charlie Sykes
Prices and participation may vary.
- [00:15]
Tara Palmeri
Welcome, everybody, to the Red Letter collaboration with Charlie Sykes. This is. I'm. I'm so happy to be sitting down with Charlie, who's one of the most brilliant journalists, thought leaders out there. So thanks, thanks for coming on the show. And I'm just returning from Washington. It was quite something. We all saw, you know, what happened on the. On the, on the lawn of the Capitol steps with Epstein victims speaking out to members in the highest levels of power on Capitol Hill. And they were standing in the lawn below them, asking them to do the right thing, to find just two Republican members to vote to compel the Department of Justice to release the Epstein files. Although, I don't know about you, Charlie, but even with that vote, do you think that the Department of Justice would even do it?
- [01:16]
Charlie Sykes
Oh, who knows? I mean, we have that James o' Keefe video out that suggests that they would simply redact the names of the Republicans. But you know what? Let's just take a step back from the politics because you have made this point, I think, very eloquently, that we're talking about a crime scene and we sometimes loose up when we talk about the various political maneuvering. I mean, reading your coverage of this, it really did strike me that this was a pivotal week in the entire Epstein story with all of those survivors, all of those victims coming out and speaking, many of them we had not heard from before. And obviously they're getting strength and encouragements from one another. And I was interested in what you said. You said you wanted to go there, to feel the moment, to take it all in, why this moment matters and what was left unsaid. So we just talk about that. I mean, what the moment said to me was this is absolutely not going to go away if the victims and the survivors are out there saying, we want to tell our story, and, and we are pushing Congress to release those files. So that seemed to me to be a major irreversible development in this story. Your thoughts?
- [02:30]
Tara Palmeri
Yeah, no, I think so. I think they were establishing their ground strength and number. This is the thing a lot of people don't understand. You saw younger victims come out, girls who showed up on Epstein steps at 12, 13, 14 years old. Okay. Usually people say, oh, a lot of these victims, they were in their later teens, early 20s, and those are the ones who come out because, you know, the brain is different when you are, when you're sexually assaulted at an older age, it's easier to process, it's easier to move forward through therapy and with help. You know, your, your, your entire frontal lobe is affected from this kind of sexual trauma. And I think when you're, when it happens to you when you're younger, it's even a deeper, it's harder to move on from it. There's a deeper level of shame. A lot of them are just like, I want to forget about it. Some of them have disassociated from the entire situation. They didn't want to get involved in the cases. They were ashamed of themselves. They were unable to even to this day reclaim their identity, their self worth, their ability to say their own names as survivors. And I think the older women that come out there, they were still far too young. And being trafficked and groomed at any age is a terrible thing, but they gave the strength to the younger ones. And I think that's why you're seeing more and more speak out. I mean, some of them said, I never said anything before, but I started working for him when I was 13, 14, like Courtney, Courtney Wilde showed up at his house with braces on her teeth. And so seeing about three dozen survivors coming out, that's the most I think I've ever seen come out.
- [04:11]
Charlie Sykes
There were a couple of interesting things you said, and I heard you talking with Terry Moran about all of this. A couple of things that I think were kind of surprising. Some of the survivors actually really didn't think that Donald Trump was going to help them. They actually believed that Donald Trump was going to do what he said. You had people like Elon Musk and others saying, we're going to release those files. This was a big thing. So, you know, you know, given the fact that Donald Trump and the Republicans are doubling down on this is all a Democratic hoax, that was interesting to hear people say, no, we are Republicans and we actually trusted you at one point.
- [04:50]
Tara Palmeri
Yeah, no, they were. And that was something I noticed, too. A lot of them were just seeing Epstein arrested in 2019. They thought to themselves during Trump's administration, they were like, oh, this is good. We're getting our justice. Right? They again believe through the MAGA influencers, through Trump himself, that if he was elected, that he would be the one to release the files and that they would get justice through him. And I spoke to one of them off after the event, Haley Robson, she was like, I'm a card carrying Republican, but I'm not voting anymore. She's like, she also isn't a Democrat, obviously, but you know, they're from Florida, they're from Palm Beach County. I think it is, was Democrat, but now it's Republican. But like, these are like the kids of working class people, you know, traditionally Republican. And Virginia Giuffre, who I was very close with, also believe that President Trump would release the files. Elon Musk personally promised her over DM that he would release the files. So they had a lot of hopes. I mean, that was a big part of its campaign promises. And I don't think that they were naive to hope that there was very little movement on the case except for, you know, the Glenn Maxwell trials under Joe Biden. We can't discount that. But I felt that, you know, they, they thought, okay. And the truth is, is that Jeffrey Epstein spent a lot of time with Democratic politicians.
- [06:13]
Charlie Sykes
A lot.
- [06:15]
Tara Palmeri
Yeah. And he donated.
- [06:16]
Charlie Sykes
Connected.
- [06:18]
Tara Palmeri
Yeah, he spent. He. And they saw that too. I mean, so that they, I would, I would have the same, you know, presumption as well. Like I would think that they would, that you would expect more from this administration. But yeah, that, that, that you did mention the James o' Keefe report. And it's, it's a, it's a tricky thing with him, right? Like, you know, he goes undercover and he does these sting operations and catches people saying things off guard. But you know, this, this. Was he at the deputy DOJ level, something like that?
- [06:52]
Charlie Sykes
Yeah, he was reasonably high up.
- [06:56]
Tara Palmeri
Right. And he was telling a woman that he met on a Tinder. So he uses, think about James o'. Keefe. He likes the honey pot, right? He likes to learn that in. And he found this, they basically got this, this, this pretty high ranking DOJ official, not high ranking, but high enough to, to go on a date with this girl and admit under the guise of a date that he believed that whatever would come out about the Epstein's files, Republicans would be protected and that you would only see Democrats looking bad.
- [07:30]
Charlie Sykes
Their damage control is kind of weak. Like, hey, I had no idea that this was an undercover. I never would have said these things. So leaving that aside because I would take everything from James o' Keefe with a gigantic grain of salt. I want to just go back to this event because something else that you said that was interesting that the role that Marjorie Taylor Greene is playing in all of this, you know, you see some of the people who were the hardest hardcore Trump supporting MAGA supporters and they were out There, not all of them, a lot of them, you know, were in the tall grass. But talk to me a little bit about your reaction to Marjorie Taylor Greene, because, I mean, last time that I checked in on her, she's talking about Jewish space, lasers, another crazy shit like that. But you actually thought that she was lucid and rather forceful in, in arguing for transparency for, for the survivors and the victim.
- [08:20]
Tara Palmeri
Yeah, I mean, she brought. Exactly. It was very, it was very bizarre to see her there next to Ro Khanna, who, you know, I think people have a good deal of respect for him. He's obviously an ambitious politician, wants to run for president, represents some of the. Yeah, he represents Silicon Valley. He's a smart guy. One of, you know, some of those people in Silicon Valley were most likely tied up with Epstein in some way or another as well. And you know, seeing her there and just remind everyone I thought she probably did it the best, that this was a crime scene and that it's not a partisan question. This is just, these are women who have crime victims rights and you should do the right thing. These are, these are just people. And this isn't a no brainer, this isn't a hoax. You know, she went on Eric Bolling show. I'm not sure which network he's on anymore. I just, maybe it was Newsmax or. And, but he was fired from Fox News for allegations of sexual misconduct. And he was telling her it's a hoax. And she's like, it's not a hoax. The guy went to prison. It's not a hoax. Like this is a real thing. And you know, I think when people actually, they want to say, oh, there's nothing there there. And I really challenge them to, you know what, if you, if you think there's nothing there there, I'd be happy to talk to you and tell you everything I know. But when somebody has a recommendation of 65 charges of sex trafficking from a deputy US attorney and it goes down to zero, you can't tell me there's nothing there there. After that, the US Attorney goes off campus and meets with Ken Starr and Jay Lefkowitz, you can tell me there's nothing there there. When the case goes all the way up to the Attorney General of the United States and that is kicked down to the state level for a ankle monitor and 13 months in a county jail with, with work release in which, as we heard on the steps and something that I had heard before as well, that he had actually abused one of the girls while he was detained, like, while he Was serving time.
- [10:23]
Charlie Sykes
What a surprise. Well, you know, she's also escalating this, you know, at the same time you have the White House. And we could talk about this in just a moment. I mean, the White House is really doubling down on this, this, you know, opposition to transparency, really putting pressure on members of Congress to cast what strikes me as a really ugly vote not to release all of these documents. And Marjorie Taylor Greene is saying that, okay, if you compile, if the victims, survivors compile a list of, you know, the clients or whatever you want to say, you know, the. The regular associate, I will read that list on the floor of the House under the constitutional protection of the privileges that a member of Congress has. If the victims did it, they could be sued for defamation, but she would be immunized for doing it. That strikes me as a, well, a significant escalation of her defiance of the White House at a time when the White House is making it absolutely clear that they have no tolerance for any Republican that votes for this, that signed that discharge petition.
- [11:25]
Tara Palmeri
Yeah, they called it a hostile act against the administration. Those are some serious words. Now, how does she get floor time? I guess she can just use her floor time when she's in the. Any four times she wants to do this. That would be a very powerful act. I, I get so frustrated. Charlie, I have to tell you this. When people write to me or say to the victims, name names, name names. Because, you know, we obviously know a lot about this case. Problem is, and we've seen this, is that. And Virginia Dufrey probably suffered from this the most, and she ends up taking her life. And I think a lot of people forget that a handful of survivors have taken their lives. Um, this is a real story. This isn't a hoax. People don't take their lives about. Over this. So. And there's so many women who are just disappeared, never came, you know, just don't want to talk about it. The FBI's own estimate is a thousand victims. The FBI doesn't overestimate these kind of things. It was a large sex trafficking operation out in the open and, you know, name names. Do you know what that's like? I mean, I've heard the, the thing that after Lisa Phillips, the survivor who said, us victims are going to name names, afterwards, I spent time with the survivors. We went and had dinners together. We, you know, we toasted to Virginia and to, you know, her life. And because she was really the first one to come out and really tell her story openly without fear of retribution. She was afraid. But she did it anyway because she believed that victims refused silence. She created a nonprofit about that. She eventually, you know, got the throne. The only settlement, the only civil settlement the monarchy has ever paid has been to Virginia Giuffre. And they think that she is a hero for refusing silence, but they are afraid she has been drowned. She has been just. She was dragged through the mud in this process. She was sued for defamation. She spent years and years in court. She. She has had to endure way more than anyone should have to endure. Not to mention that she has lived a really difficult life of sexual slavery under Epstein. And it was just. It was a really tolling. And I just don't think for so many of these women, it took so much for them to wake up in the morning, to put on their clothes, to stand there. And for the first time, many of them, Jane, do and say, this is my name. This is who I am. And, And. And. And, yeah, this is me. And then you want them to have to go into defamation trials against the most powerful men in the world. Okay. And this is one of the fears that even journalists have. They've been bullied, they've been intimidated. Sometimes having this information is a terrifying thing to have. And. And for the families, for the victims. Anoushka DiGiorgio, she went up there and she said, I am followed on my way to drop my daughter off at school. I am harassed. We know that private investigators are used. Even Michael Cohen said on my podcast that when. When President Trump was accused by a Jane Doe in the Epstein trials, he sent a private investigator out to find out who she was. The point is that people are Jane does to. To keep anonymity, but, like, there is so much going on behind the scenes. And they said that they're terrified that Lisa would even say that she's putting a list together.
- [14:49]
Charlie Sykes
Well, and these are very powerful wealthy people. I mean, they are powerful wealthy people who have the ability to really break the. You know, break the survivors if they speak out. I mean, they can afford the lawyers, they can afford the private investment, and.
- [15:02]
Tara Palmeri
They can break the lawyers representing these victims. David Boies was. Was sued as well in the case with Alan Dershowitz and Virginia Giuffre. It's not. That's why the lawyers are even hesitant to talk about it. They, too, know that they can be dragged through the mud. And these are people who have millions and millions and millions of millions and millions of dollars to waste on these.
- [15:25]
Charlie Sykes
Kind of cases and are used to being in court. So I want to talk about a story that you. You broke over the last couple of days before we get back to Donald Trump. Because this is actually. This is kind of a heartbreaking story, and I'll let you tell. It is one of the Epstein survivors confronts a Republican congressman that she met on. On the airplane. This would be. This would be Harriet Hageman. That how you pronounce the name from Wyoming, the woman who replaced Liz Cheney in Congress. So one of the survivors waiting to board a flight from Washington to Chicago recognizes or, you know, connects with Congressman Hageman. And so. So tell me the story, because it's. It is kind of heartbreaking.
- [16:06]
Tara Palmeri
It is. It's really, really heartbreaking. So Marika Chartuni is a survivor of Jeffrey Epstein. We got to know each other through the Broken Jeffrey Epstein podcast, which I all recommend you listen to. I worked on it very closely with Virginia Giuffre and Marika and others like Courtney Wilde. I traveled around the country with them as they tried to pursue their own justice. It was a story. It was a story very much focused on them rather than on the sexy crimes of Jeffrey Epstein. Right. If that's what you want to call them. But Marika and I have remained friends and throughout the years. And I. She said to me, this woman is staring at me for a long time. I said, oh, weird. She goes, I think she's a congresswoman. You know, I think. I think she's. I recognize her. Marika is a very bright woman. And I was like, oh, that's weird. And she must have recognized her from the. From the. From. From all of the events over the past few days. And Marika's been on tv. Marika's a striking woman. She's blonde, she's tall. She was a model. And I. I saw like, oh, that's weird. She's like, I think she's a congresswoman. And I was like. I didn't know what to say to her. We're just texting. I was like, oh, you're texting me.
- [17:21]
Charlie Sykes
In real time, where this is happening?
- [17:22]
Tara Palmeri
Yeah, in real time. I was like. She goes, oh, it's Harriet Hageman. I was like, marika, she's a Republican. She's a woman. Why don't you talk to her? Like, you know, even you came down to Washington to try to get those two extra votes because Massey only needs four. Five Republicans.
- [17:39]
Charlie Sykes
Great. The math is important here.
- [17:41]
Tara Palmeri
Five to get that discharge petition, to get this vote on the floor so that Republican members would have to vote against releasing the Epstein files. It's the vote. Get Them on the record, right? So so far, you have Lauren Boebert, Motley Crue, Nancy Mace, and. And you have Marjorie Taylor Greene, three women, you know, who are with Massie on this, and they just need two more. So in my mind, I'm like, well, she's a woman, you know, like, who knows this could happen. It's not crazy. It's not like you're walking up to a man and she's a little. Some people say she looks like a witch. She looks a little funky. You know, she's from Wyoming. They're very populous there. And she just took out Liz Cheney, right? Who was this? You know, she was the slayer of the GOP establishment. Who knows, Maybe she would be willing to be a firebrand and all this. So I said, why don't you go talk to her? And she wanted to anyway. So it wasn't even like I needed to, like, say anything, but when she. When she just didn't have the context of who Harriet Hageman was. And I explained to her who she was, and she walks up to her and she's. She's very timid woman. And she just texts me back, I did it. She said, yes. I'm crying. And I was like, whoa. She just said yes, like, she's going to vote with. With. With Massie. That would be huge. Like, that could cause the dominoes to fall. And. And. And. And Marika's crying. I called her and she was like, oh, my God. She said yes. Oh, my God. She thought she made history. Like, she thought she made history. It was like a beautiful moment. And I was like. I was like, wow. And she's like, I have to board. I have to board. I'm going to text everybody in our group chain because all the Survivor sisters and the lawyers are all in a group chain. They call each other Survivor. It keeps them, like, bounded together. So she. She boards her flight, and I. I start, like, looking online and I look at Harriet and. And then I said, well, what happened? Tell me, tell me, tell me. And we talked very. She said she voted. And she said. And I said, tell me exactly what she told you. She said. She asked me where I live, what my name was. She told me everything would be okay. And she said, I voted for it. And I said, what do you mean she voted for it? She said, I voted for it yesterday. And I was like, oh, God. Oh, no. And I was like, marika. Because then I did. I was like, she didn't vote for it yesterday. She voted for this measure. A countermeasure that would continue the probe in the hands of the House Oversight Committee, which, by the way, all the documents that they're getting are black, black, black, black, black. Dizzying black lines of nothingness.
- [20:24]
Charlie Sykes
They kind of look like this. Yeah.
- [20:25]
Tara Palmeri
Oh, my God, Charlie, thank you for pulling that up, because it is terrifying.
- [20:30]
Charlie Sykes
So much for transparency.
- [20:32]
Tara Palmeri
Yeah, right? It's disgusting. I'm like, I'm happy you have a. I have a. Happy that you have a printer, because people need to see that. That is terrible. And so I was like, no, it's not right. And she tried to look for her. She couldn't find her on the flight. You know, she was in the front of the plane, and Marika was in the back. But even before she boarded her plane, she walked up to her aide and was like, thank you so much. Thank you so much. Like, the heartbreak and for me to have to explain it to her. And I was like, it's not going to work. And I was like, why don't you just go walk up to her on the plane and ask her, like, did you. What did you mean by that? You voted for it? Like. And she was just like, I think she was so heartbroken by it. And I think she. That was all she could do. And she couldn't find her. She said so. It was like, at that point, it was. It was what it was. And then her.
- [21:20]
Charlie Sykes
Do you think that Hegeman knew that she was misleading this survivor? Do you think that she knew that she was doing the sleight of hand?
- [21:28]
Tara Palmeri
I think so, yeah. Yeah, I do. It's like when someone asks, can you vote for this? Like, I voted for it. Like, you're not asking about the past, you're asking about the present. The one that. They were out there. They were out there behind a plaque. That was the Massey Bill. Not a countermeasure, you know, reliance on the gas light.
- [21:53]
Charlie Sykes
She.
- [21:54]
Tara Palmeri
She's not. She said to me, she's like, this is legalese. That's what she said to me. And I was like, exactly. And we are used to getting that. We're, you know, we're journalists. We're used to getting spun up by. By politicians. Right. But they should not be doing that to crime victims to their face.
- [22:10]
Charlie Sykes
Yes, but this is the. This is the strategy, though, of Mike Johnson. Right? It is to kind of gaslight everybody and say that there's no need to sign the discharge petition because it's moot. What are the survivors thinking about the way that Speaker Johnson is handling this, claiming that he is going you know, coming to their defense that he is for transparency when in fact it is this bizarre shell game that we're seeing.
- [22:37]
Tara Palmeri
It's patronizing. Yeah, I'm protecting the innocent. It's like, hey there, little lady, I got, you know, I'm looking after you. And it's like, excuse me. They're like protecting us. We're outside here saying release the files. And there is a very, My answer had to be to. This has always been, well, you are able to, to prosecute and indict Glenn Maxwell with some of the women remaining Jane Does. You can continue to do that. You can protect the victims, you can conceal their identities and as you have in the past, but there's no reason you can't release the files without protecting innocent victims. There's. That is not, that's not really a justifiable reason unless you think the innocent are the men. And if that's the case, then that you, you've answered your question. There were, he spent, he spent some time with the victims. And, and one of the lawyers, Sigurd McAuley, she's a powerhouse attorney from Boys Schiller, Flex listener. She, I mean they were the ones that decided to go up against Prince Andrew. They represented and she told them, when you get these files, you are going to see very powerful people in those files. What are you going to do about it? And they said, we won't let the victims down this time. What does that mean? You know.
- [23:56]
Charlie Sykes
Okay, so, yeah, well, I want to get to that because there's, there's something that you said, Terry Moran, that I wanted to ask you about. But of course, you've seen by now that Donald Trump is doing more rants on social. This one came out about 9 o' clock this morning. Once again he's saying that the whole thing is a hoax. This is merely another democratic hoax, just like Russia, Russia, Russia and all the others in order to deflect and distract from the great success of a Republican president. The now dying Epstein case was only brought back to life by the radical left Democrats because they are doing so poorly, sort of ignoring the role that his own administration played with this, the bomb from Elon Musk. But what did the survivor sister say about Donald Trump repeatedly describing this as a hoax?
- [24:44]
Tara Palmeri
I mean, it's incredibly upsetting. They're like, I'm not a hoax. I'm a real person. This is not a hoax. This is not a hoax. But I am in awe of their grace because I think I'd be furious if I were them to Try to quiet, survive to quiet people who are victims of sexual assault. But they are way more elegant and graceful than I am. I do think that they are so much more focused on what they want, which is having the files released, that they know that he's in charge. I mean, you heard them making these impassioned pleas, saying like, you have the power right now, Mr. President. Use it right now. And they don't want to anger him because they want, they don't want to be seen as adversaries to him because they truly want these out there. This isn't some sort of political game for them. Maybe political games for some people, like political consultants out there that think this is great for the midterms. Not for them. You know, it was like Playbook. And I read it every morning. I'm sure you do too. I used to write for Playbook at Politico. And they were like, yes. What has long been bandied about as, you know, a political warfare is now a crime scene. I'm like, it's always been a crime scene. You know what I mean? But not all horror, but like, for them, this isn't about politics. And so they don't want to get, they don't want to tangle with the most powerful person in the world for the sheer shake of it. They don't care who wins the midterms or, you know, who has the House seats and who can do this or who can do that. They're just like, if we have to, if we have to suck up to this powerful autocratic, you know, person who cares who it is, they just want to know. They just want what they want. They want justice. And I think like, okay, they're not pawns. Political game. I just want to make that clear. They're not pawns.
- [26:38]
Charlie Sykes
And then they're not part, they're not partisan actors. So this is what does not add up in the whole story, which is, and I raised this question the other day, you know, what is in those files that is so damaging that Donald Trump is willing to spend so much political capital on it and willing to force Republicans to take this really ugly vote against transparency? And of course, you know, obviously in the back of my mind, I'm thinking, what is in there about Donald Trump? You listening to your conversation, though, and realizing that the COVID up, the Epstein cover up, has gone on for decades now, multiple administrations of both parties. This guy is so connected, you use the term that releasing the files opens up a Pandora's box, that there are so many powerful names and you floated out the idea that this could actually affect the financial titans of America, the actual economy. And also, it seems obvious, based on your reporting, that the Chevy F team was very, very deeply connected with law enforcement agencies, with intelligence agencies. And so there's a lot going on there that so many people, including now Donald Trump, is. Are willing to cover this up. I mean, what. What happens when you open that Pandora's box? What's in there?
- [28:06]
Tara Palmeri
No, I think you're right. The problem is, is that it will obviously erode trust in whatever trust is left in the Department of Justice. That's. That's huge. I think you'll see how involved he was with them, going all the way back to the first Ponzi scheme that he was involved in, Financial Towers, when he. It was the largest. It was the largest Ponzi scheme at the time. $400 million with Stephen Hoffenberg. He was an informant. That was his partner. He didn't go to jail. Stephen Hoffenberg spent the rest of his time in prison. I believe that's when Jeffrey Epstein first became acquainted with the justice system and how to use it for his advancement.
- [28:47]
Charlie Sykes
Well, Trump doesn't care about that. Right. I mean, why would Trump care about discrediting the Department of Justice? This is not a priority for him. Right. What else is in there?
- [28:58]
Tara Palmeri
Yeah.
- [28:59]
Charlie Sykes
Is it the intelligence agencies, the foreign intelligence agencies? Is it Trump himself?
- [29:03]
Tara Palmeri
I mean, I think foreign intelligence agencies is a hyper fixer. I think Trump himself was a very good friend of Jeffrey Epstein's at the height of his sex trafficking operation. We know that lawyers even called Trump. At least Brad Edwards told me that he had called Trump and. And used him as a source. I can't imagine. If you. If I was doing an investigation on you, Charlie, do you think at any point your best friend wouldn't be involved? Yeah, in some way.
- [29:35]
Charlie Sykes
Yeah.
- [29:35]
Tara Palmeri
I mean, he belongs to the clubs. He's in the black book. He's flown on the flights. I think even if there is no direct connection between Trump and sexual assault, which we don't have any proof of, besides a few. Besides, we don't have proof. There was a woman who alleged that she dropped it based on intimidation right before the election. Right. But regardless, I don't see how, if there was a true investigation, he wouldn't be named. He wouldn't be named. Or people who are donors. I mean, listen, these are very wealthy, powerful people. You know, someone. I thought that. I think Mask, he said that this is all about the. The donor class, too, and it would take down a Lot of donors. It would. You know, Jess Stanley from Chase bank, he was the head of Chase Bank. He had to step down. There are email changes between him and Jeffrey Epstein discussing which type of girl he would like Snow White or Beauty and the Beast. You know, from the head of Apollo, Mark Rowan. He had to step down. So it's like the Les Wexner. These are really powerful men, and so many of them still have not been revealed. It would cause a lot of chaos. And so many of them are connected to. And not just that our dignitaries were world leaders. There are politicians. It goes far and wide. And for even those who may not have been a part of the sexual abuse, it's also the impression of, like, wait, you were around and enabled this person, because you can't do about it.
- [31:10]
Charlie Sykes
If you were on the Lolita Express, the airplane, you saw a lot of things, and you'd have to be pretty obtuse not to see. You use a very interesting phrase. And you talk to Terry Moran, we talked about grooming the young girls to become sex slaves, but also you described the. What you call the grooming of the elite, the way that Jeffrey Epstein would, you know, fly these elite figures around the country on airplanes with scantily clad young women as stewardesses, grooming them to think that this was acceptable behavior.
- [31:46]
Tara Palmeri
You know, while I was in D.C. i did learn something new, which I had already known, but heard more about from other survivors, that a lot of the worst, most depraved activity happened on those planes. And, you know, when I was traveling with Virginia Giuffre, I remember a moment when we passed by the Palm beach airport, and that's where Epstein's plane was still parked when we were driving. This was in 2020. And I saw her body physically go like this and revolt. And she. She became ill afterwards. And frankly, we couldn't do any more reporting for the rest of the trip. She went back to Australia shortly after that, and she described being assaulted by a world leader, you know, on there, and no longer a world leader now, but was then. And in a way, that was brutal. I mean, it was brutal because that was the way the type of sex this person wanted. They were used in ways that I don't to even talk about. It is really, really, really difficult because, yeah, it was really, really dehumanizing. And I don't think people understand how brutal some of this was.
- [33:13]
Charlie Sykes
Are we going to find out? I mean, are we going to learn the truth? Let me know. This is a question you can't answer, but I Guess the reason I'm asking this question is, okay, it is the first week in September now, and the big question was, would this story go away over the summer? Would it come back? Obviously, it is back in a very, very big way. It has not gone away. There's clearly momentum. The survivors you're speaking at, what do you think? Are we going to get those. Those documents and. Or find out the truth? I mean, there's obviously the possibility that documents will be released, will be so redacted as to be unusable. What do you think is going to happen?
- [33:55]
Tara Palmeri
I don't think we'll ever get the truth in the Justice Department, unfortunately. I think it's going to be whistleblowers. I think it's going to be survivors. I think it's going to be journalists. I think, although so many journalists are intimidated when they're doing this story, and so many families, so many survivors, so many. I mean, the intimidation behind this story is horrible. And that's why I think the fear factor of the story makes it. Why it's. But I don't. I really don't believe that you can keep the. This. This genie in the bottle forever. Like, I think it's. I think it eventually has to come out. I think about Virginia, because so many of the people that we know about and so much of the story that we know is in Virginia was, Was. Was told to Virginia. And she has her memoir coming out soon, October 21st, and, you know, she's no longer alive. It'll be interesting to see how much of it the publishers went with in terms of the naming of the names, because they, they. Then I think in her death, they take on the risk. Defamation. Yeah, I want to correct that. Steven Rosenweg, Virginia was murdered. It's not true. I was with her brother two nights ago. I spoke to Virginia just months before she died, and her brother told me a horrible story about what it was like to try to bring her back to life for 45 minutes until. Until the paramedics came and he couldn't. He was working on a dead body. She had taken her life in her bathroom. So that's not true. She was not. She was not killed. And, you know, I spoke to her before she died, months before, and she was not well. And I said she should see her family. People underestimate the impact of these. I'm not gonna. Paula, I'm not gonna say how she died. It's not. It's not relevant. But she was not killed. She even wrote a note saying if I am no longer alive. I want this book to be published anyway, and I think we need to really understand the impact, the real human impact of these crimes. Stop sensationalizing these conspiracy theories.
- [36:14]
Charlie Sykes
No, I think that the. The reality is. Is horrible enough without. Without indulging in any sort of those lurid conspiracy theories. Tara, thank you so much for this conversation. And I want to urge all of my subscribers to subscribe to the Red letter because your reporting has been. Just. Has been invaluable. And also, I think what's important is that you bring a passion for the victims and for finding out what's happened here and obviously have tremendous sourcing and contact with the people who know what the truth is. I would strongly urge all of my subscribers, all the viewers, to just subscribe to what you're doing. You're doing great work, Karen.
- [36:59]
Tara Palmeri
Thank you, Charlie and I. Yeah. And I appreciate you staying on this story as well, because I know it's not the typical political story that we cover from day to day, which is what I was doing before this came back to light. But, you know, when Pam Bondi said case closed, my gut dropped. And I was like, what? And I was on vacation, actually, and I kind of dropped vacation to get on it. I just landed. That's when they do it, right? July 4th, right when we're all taking off for the first time. And I, very strangely, the week before, was on a podcast with Joanna Coles from the Daily Beast. And I said to her, I've been in touch with my contacts in the Justice Department. They say they're still working on this case. And that was what kind of kept me hopeful, too, is that they were still working on it. But when that happened, it was like, no, no, no, no, no. We have to show the world this case isn't closed. This is not. This is not the case.
- [38:01]
Charlie Sykes
It is definitely not closed. So, yeah, thanks. Thanks for today. I appreciate it.
- [38:06]
Tara Palmeri
Thank you, Carly. Okay, thanks. Bye. I want to thank my producer, Eric Abenate, Adam Stewart, who handles my thumbnails, and Abby Baker on my social media. If you want to support my independent journalism and get my scoop straight to your inbox, please sign up for the Red letter. You can do that by going to tarapaulmary.com that's T A R A P A L M E R I dot com, you can obviously share this with your friends. Like, subscribe, leave a written review. I'm not backing down. I'm back from my vacation. I feel so much stronger. Thank you to all of you who have sent me notes just turned 38 and it's gonna be 30. Great. And I really feel positive about what I am able to accomplish with this community, Community, what we can all do. And I appreciate all the tips and everything you've sent to me. And of course, I'll be in D.C. on Wednesday, so check out my social media. I'll be on. I'll be on msnbc. I'll be on Nicole Wallace's show. I'll be doing a live on Substack with Terry Moran. You can go to Substack. I'm on there at Tara Palmary. And I'll be live from the capital. So check out all of my social media. Check out my podcasts, everything. I will be there. Twitter, X, whatever they're calling it now. I'll be back again soon.