← The Tara Palmeri Show
The Tara Palmeri Show
Why the Epstein Files Are Still Hidden — and Who’s Keeping Them That Way
00:51:46
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- [00:00]
Tara Palmeri
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- [00:23]
V
So here's my first question. Thanks, everybody, for joining us. We're here with Tara Palmeri, longtime Palmer, excellent journalist, expert on the Epstein stuff, which is a rough beat to have, but we appreciate that you're out there doing it. Do you think that it's like getting a more fair shake now because younger people are in powers and they're not afraid? Cause millennials aren't on the list, man. It's all boomers and older Gen X people who were alive and doing the bad stuff at that time. And. And now you have the House Oversight Committee representative who's a millennial, and he's like, I don't give a fuck. Put it all out. Get everybody whatever.
- [01:07]
Tara Palmeri
Yeah, no, you're exactly right. Because this is, like I've said, this is a scandal that affects both parties. And it's the older generation, it's the good old boys club, the ones who thought they could get away with this kind of behavior for so long. And I think that there is a part even of the Democratic Party that's sort of like, let's clean out the warts, get rid of these, the cobwebs. Let's do this. And that's why you're seeing that from leaders like Ro Khanna, Eric Swalwell, the younger ones. I mean, believe me. And you would know this just from looking at even Virginia Giuffre's depositions, the names that have been revealed, George Mitchell, Bill Richardson, you know, these, these are prominent Democrats. I mean, they're dead now. But Bill Richardson was critical in brokering, you know, so many deals, international deals for the Clinton administration. And, you know, Senator Mitchell was from Maine. He's a Democrat. And so these are just a few of the many names that are associated with the Democratic Party that have been brought into this. And I always say we have to always remember that President Trump was a Democrat then. He was giving money to Hillary Clinton and Schumer and in the 90s and.
- [02:19]
V
The pallet around New York City.
- [02:21]
Tara Palmeri
Right. And also, you know, the culture was, was really was. This was way pre. Me too. You know, maybe not definitely a period of time when women were starting to ascend in the workplace, but people were unsure how to deal with them. But so it's so obvious that these young girls that came from, you know, mostly disadvantaged backgrounds, they weren't seen as people, they were seen as party favors. I mean, that was what Virginia Giuffre said. She was passed around like a fruit platter. And she's the survivor that accused Prince Andrew of sexual assault. And the crown and a historic settlement paid her millions and millions of dollars for that. So you know, it had to be.
- [03:07]
V
Serious enough for him to not be a working royal anymore. I mean the royals can clean up anything. They couldn't clean this up. Cause it happened. And like, you know, I want to.
- [03:16]
Tara Palmeri
Talk about cartographic evidence, like what is a man doing with a 16 year old girl in a picture? I mean I always say this to people, it's somebody else's kid, you know, this is somebody else's kid. And it's hard for some people to understand that. But yeah, I think there's only very. A very small percentage of America doesn't get that. I think for the most, most do. But a very small percentage still chooses to look away.
- [03:41]
V
Well, one of the things I wanna bring up, cause I worked in New York City in hospitality and restaurants from like 2002 to like 2013. And that is like a prime time for pre phones, right? So there weren't like phone cameras. And there's still a lot of like shenanigany shit going on. And when Donald Trump says things like Mar a Lago was just different in the 90s. New York City was different in the 90s. I feel like I know what he's talking about. Because when we would open a restaurant or we a special event, they would call to get models. They called them right to work, right. And so it was like everything was always a facade. Everything was like, oh, will there be girls there? A new club is opening. They're gonna hire a bunch of girls to be there to make it really fun.
- [04:27]
Tara Palmeri
I think it's still like there like that now. I hope that they've cleaned up the modeling agent, like the modeling agency I am.
- [04:33]
V
Back then it was scary because it was like some of the girls you would get and you'd be like, okay, that seems like a girl who is like an NYU student or someone like my age. She's just like coming because it's like a g. And then other people were not. Other people were, you know, a little bit more on the sex worker side of things.
- [04:50]
Tara Palmeri
Yeah, it's hard to say sometimes with, with this, with the modeling industry. I remember. Well, first of all, Epstein had A modeling agency, MC Squared with Jean Luc Brunel. His partner died in a prison in France, mysteriously hung. Okay, sounds a little, you know, President Trump had a modeling agency as well. So did his ambassador, Paolo Zampoli. It was like, you know, if you want to have women around, you get a modeling. They have a beauty, you know, beauty industry. So I think. What was Miss Universe, Trump Universe was the beauty beauty contest.
- [05:28]
V
Miss usa.
- [05:29]
Tara Palmeri
Yeah, Miss usa. I think it's all creepy.
- [05:32]
V
It is creepy. Yeah.
- [05:34]
Tara Palmeri
It creeps me out. And listen, like, some women, they. Some women are coming from places around the world, and they find that they can leave whatever, you know, situation poverty.
- [05:49]
V
Or abuse or lack of opportunity.
- [05:52]
Tara Palmeri
Yeah, right. But sometimes when they end up in the US they don't have their passports anymore. They're living in these insane conditions. They're just. They're sort of a victim to the circumstance, the risk they took. And they're young and they're powerless. I mean, I wouldn't say unless you are a supermodel. And I think with a lot of these women that supermodels, they tend to have some sort of connections in the industry. Famous parents, somebody's looking out for them. Right. I remember there was a woman that I know well, and she's in Palm beach, and she told me that, you know, she would help girls that came from prominent families who wanted to be models because, you know, she would make sure that they didn't end up in the same lane as the other girls, which would often lead to sex working. And so I found this to be a little gross, like, okay, sorry, let's help the rich girls so they don't end up turning into sex workers, but let's leave the rest of them to fend for themselves in an industry that's extraordinarily exploitative. And hopefully that's changed. I think we could do a really big deep dive on it.
- [06:58]
V
I find it just the hospitality connections between Epstein. I mean, his chef, Adam Perry Lang, going from Epstein to Mario Batali. Like, could you have any more of a fucking direct, gross connection? And then be like, oh, I don't know anything.
- [07:11]
Tara Palmeri
Like, oh, he would always. He wrote about. He spoke about it. He's like, I had a wealthy client in New Mexico who taught me how to barbecue. And that's how he became a barbecue chef. And that's his story. Like, that is the story he tells people when he goes on Jimmy Kimmel, his best friend's show, when he goes on TV and he talks about it, his books. He is a he has restaurants all over the place. Well, he used to have apl, but it closed down. I actually went there with Virginia Giuffre because she was like, we think that he could be, like. She believed that he could be a really valuable witness for her because he was there at the height of the sex trafficking. When you look at those flight logs, you see Al, Adam Perry Lang or APL all over the flight logs. And you see her name there too. So how is he not a valuable witness in her case? And he just wouldn't, he wouldn't give her a deposition. I don't understand why. I think he didn't want to seem complicit. But I think by, I think, what did we call that episode? We called it the enablers. You know, people that just look away. And so I was really disheartened by that. She literally wrote him, sorry, I'm going to grab my charger because I might run out of tooth.
- [08:19]
V
Oh, yeah, no problem.
- [08:20]
Tara Palmeri
Yeah.
- [08:20]
V
This is the joys of life.
- [08:22]
Tara Palmeri
The joys. The joys of lives.
- [08:25]
V
I know. The Adam Perry Lang thing fucked me up because, like, having come from that world, it's such a toxic, cutthroat, difficult world, you know what you're seeing and what you're not seeing. And you know that you do have the power to choose to not do stuff. And when you do do stuff, you know, you're responsible for what happens to those girls, whether it's your waitresses or the people passing or your bartenders or whoever it is. Or in this case, you know, the, the girls who were underage are being taken advantage of in these venues that he was chefing at. Like, chef means chief, brother. You were in charge. You should have helped them.
- [08:58]
Tara Palmeri
Yeah, I agree. You know, it's me. It's reminding me of when I was, you know, younger, I, I worked in restaurants too. Like, everybody does. Yeah. But when I was, like, really young, I was like 14 and I used to box pizzas at a place called Anthony Franco's because, you know, I'm an Italian girl from Jersey, so that's, that's what you do when you're, you know, And I just remember, like, I would literally just have to, like, move my body to avoid the delivery boys from trying to grab my butt the whole time. And I'm like, what a shitty situation to be in as a 14 year old. Like, it wasn't like I was, you know, obviously it didn't extend past that, but it's just in that world, what was the guy who owned. Who owned the place. What was he doing about it? You should have been like, don't fucking touch her. She works here. But that's. I can only imagine what you've seen and what you've been through. But, yeah, this is kind of.
- [09:46]
V
I quit a lot of jobs. I mean, that's the thing. You. You end up quitting a lot of jobs because you're like, this is toxic or crazy or I can't handle it. There was. I mean, there was one place I worked for that filmed a reality show in it because it was so crazy. It was called the A List, and it was about older gay men dating younger gay men in New York City. It had one season on Logo, and most of it was filmed between Almond Restaurant, which was Jason Weiner, Anthony Weiner, brother's restaurant.
- [10:11]
Tara Palmeri
I've been there.
- [10:12]
V
Yeah. So I was there. That's where I, like, came up and Fire island. And, you know, it's like, that was crazy. And it was a television show, and it was, like, deep talking about all of these, like, playboy older gay men and the way that they were, like, using their money to manipulate young gay guys in New York City. And that was Entertainment in the mid and early 2000s. Like, just. The culture was absolutely insane.
- [10:36]
Tara Palmeri
It was. It was. And I even think of, like, Britney Spears and, like, and Christina Aguilera, and they were all like, we're pure Catholic schoolgirls. And what was the other one? God. Jessica Simpson was like, cross, like Jesus. But, like, everything kind of. What kind of messaging are you sending to girls and young women? And, like, listen, there's nothing wrong with sexuality, but it's just such a mixed message. It's like, be cute and little and sweet and innocent for men while being a girl. It. It's. I. I'm. I love spending time with this generation of women. The. The ones that are coming up right now, the Gen Z, like, I think they're fucking rock stars. I.
- [11:23]
V
They don't put up with shit. They put up with nothing.
- [11:26]
Tara Palmeri
They are.
- [11:27]
V
I like to think we had a hand in that, though, as, like, the millennial big sisters. To be like, no, not. We're not doing this anymore. We're not letting this happen to another round of girls. Like, I can't.
- [11:37]
Tara Palmeri
I agree. I feel that way.
- [11:39]
V
It wasn't just in hospitality, though. It's also in the music and in that elite world, this really is, like, an expose of elites and of people who control power and art and music and all these different things. My wife, classical cellist, went to Tanglewood, not Interlaken. Went to Eastman School of Music. And she will say she feels incredibly lucky that bad stuff didn't happen to her, because she's gotta be the only one of everyone she knows that bad stuff didn't happen to. And the notoriety of this ide of, like, these rich older men wanting to keep a songbird, like, oh, you're a prodigy cellist as a child, I'm gonna become your patron. So when you turn 18, you perform for me. You belong to me. I control your career.
- [12:20]
Tara Palmeri
That was very much part of the Epstein Ghislaine Maxwell playbook. They would go to Interlochen and they would try to find ballerinas and artists. And they would say, well, we're just a wealthy older couple and we never had kids, so we wanna sponsor you because you're so special.
- [12:37]
V
Right?
- [12:37]
Tara Palmeri
Anyone who's ambitious and maybe they don't come from means and they don't have the ability, their parents are struggling to even support their talents. They look at this and they're like, oh, my God, I've been saved.
- [12:48]
V
I mean, and their teachers tell them, yes, get a patron. This is how the industry works. And it's like, well, what is the.
- [12:55]
Tara Palmeri
What is the cost of a patron? Yeah, I agree with that girl who.
- [13:00]
V
Went to nyu, who was a cello player that Epstein pulled the money back from when she wouldn't meet with. I think it was Prince Andrew. Her name was Melissa Solomon, something like that.
- [13:10]
Tara Palmeri
I don't know that that's interesting.
- [13:11]
V
She only did, like. Well, she only talked. I think it's because nothing happened to her that her story didn't go that much further. But he basically recruited her from interlocking. She did one story, I think it was with New York magazine, about how he then wanted her at Juilliard so that she would be near him. And then he was like, okay, well, it's time to, like, meet people. And she didn't. And he pulled her tuition in her junior year, and she was able to work with the school, to stay in the school. But it was, like, deeply traumatic and so sort of, you know, indicative of what this man did. The way he would get you sort of, like, completely indebted to him and then try to, like, make you do horrible things against your will because you owed him, or to keep the life up, or you get close to the dream, but not quite. And then he'd pull it back again.
- [13:50]
Tara Palmeri
And so extraordinarily manipulative. And even in the high school where the Palm beach girls, the girls that were really, really, like, destitute the ones getting $300 to bring their friends. And these are. $300 was probably more than their fathers made in a week. You know, he would, like, pit them against each other. He would make them wish. He would. He would say, I'm saving you from the police who want to speak to you. They're coming for you because you're a child prostitute. You know what I mean? And he was extraordinarily manipulative. I mean, they're children. Like, come on. What teenage girl is not. Cannot be easily manipulated. I mean, if that's not the entire premise of the movie Mean Girls, I mean, what is it? You know? And it's like. It is. It's incredible what they were able to pull off and to. How many victims? A thousand?
- [14:43]
V
Thousands. Thousands.
- [14:45]
Tara Palmeri
Like, that's crazy.
- [14:47]
V
It's so big. And you've been on the front lines of really, like, helping break this open and keeping it alive. You have a story out, I think yesterday you posted it, about Katie Johnson, the girl that they say doesn't exist.
- [14:59]
Tara Palmeri
Right? Yeah. So good, so good, so good.
- [15:03]
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V
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V
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- [15:28]
Tara Palmeri
That's why you rack about. So she was the Jane Doe.
- [15:34]
V
She.
- [15:35]
Tara Palmeri
Katie Johnson is not her real name, by the way, but she chose that pseudonym. But she's the Jane Doe who came Forward before the 2016 election, and she accused President Trump of raping her in Jeffrey Epstein's townhouse when she was 13 years old. You know, she said that he pinned her down, that he told her that, if you say anything, I'll come after you and your family. And, you know, she came forward right before the election. She filed three times. The first time, the judges dismissed it, but then she tried to file again and again. She was supposed to do a press conference just a day or two before the election, but then she just went dark, completely went away. Her lawyer, one of her lawyers, said she had been receiving threats. And so everyone's sort of like, I would just keep getting messages from, you know, the red letter community, Tara Palmertone. They're like, you had to find Katie Johnson, Katie Johnson, Katie Johnson. And I've Gotten leads. But the truth is, is that I really feel like this woman went underground for a reason, and I'm not going to bind her.
- [16:37]
V
Yeah, yeah.
- [16:38]
Tara Palmeri
She wants to come forward. Like, I'm here. There are a ton of other journalists there. I know, you know, that. Be happy to speak to her. But, you know, I spoke to her, one of her lawyers, and he went, he explained to me the vetting process and that he said to her, I have no doubt in my mind that she told the truth, that they had. They flew around from California, they spent multiple days vetting her. They. They even hired private investigators to retrace her story. And, you know, he said that he doesn't even know if she's alive. I mean, he hoped she is, but he doesn't know. And it was. It was interesting for me to hear that, because in the mainstream media, they pretty much like, disregard this story. Like, I was listening to cnn and, you know, they're like, there have been no accusations or allegations against President Trump. It's like, no, there have been. He denied it. She dropped the case. Her lawyer says that she was dealing with threats. That's. There were allegations. They were denied, but there were allegations. Also. I had Michael Cohen on my show On Tara, on YouTube, the Terrible Mary show, or Spotify, Apple, whatever, and he was explaining to me that. That they had a. Out. They had a case before the election, and it sounded exactly like this because there's only one case that came forward. Remember, this is 2016. This is three years before Epstein was arrested in 2019, and the world really understood the full extent of the crimes, thanks to Julie K. Brown. So her coming forward and telling a story about President Trump and connection to Epstein was.
- [18:07]
V
Was kind of one of the brand new.
- [18:09]
Tara Palmeri
Brand new. Yeah. She's kind of breaking silence. And, you know, I asked Michael about it, and he was like, yeah, I talked to Trump. He said it was bullshit and take care of it. So I handled it. And so what does he do? He sends private investigators to try to find the address that's listed on the lawsuit. But, like, obviously, if you're a Jane Doe, you're not going to put your address right, because otherwise, why not just use your real name? You're basically revealing your identity. And it led him to a parking lot in the Bronx. Some would argue that using private investigators is a form of intimidation. I mean, Jane Doe 1, Courtney Weil told me that when she was trying to file the Crime Victims Rights act against Jeffrey Epstein, he hired PIs, and they literally ran her off the road. So this is what, you know, Michael said that it was. It was a bullshit story and that the lawyer said he had never met her. Now, maybe this. Maybe the lawyer that she spoke to, that he spoke to, said he had never met her because she had so many lawyers. But the one I spoke to, the one Chaney, Mason, and obviously Lisa Bloom, they'd all met her and they knew her. And I'm still trying to figure out what he's talking about, whether it's even true. But I do find it to be interesting because, like, usually we just don't know the circumstances around this. I think there's still so many mysteries involving this case.
- [19:21]
V
I take Michael Cohen one story at a time, right? Like, every. Sometimes I'm like, okay, that seems very true. And other times I feel like, are you still worried that you could go back to jail if you were to be brought up in this case as, like, a witness intimidator or something? So sometimes I'm like, okay, yay, Michael Cohen. Other times I'm like, all right, well, we'll take that one with a grain of salt and see. You know, what? With everyone, I don't know.
- [19:43]
Tara Palmeri
I don't feel that way about everyone, actually.
- [19:45]
V
No.
- [19:45]
Tara Palmeri
Like, I'm not a picker. Pick and cheat. When I hear you talk, I'm not, like, I'm gonna believe V today, but not tomorrow.
- [19:51]
V
Yeah. I'm trying to be nice.
- [19:53]
Tara Palmeri
You.
- [19:53]
V
I don't find him to be a reliable narrator.
- [19:56]
Tara Palmeri
So sometimes you have your credibility. That is all you have. This is a trust business. That is all we have, is our trust, is our credibility, is telling the truth or the closest version of the truth as we try to get down to it. So I don't know.
- [20:09]
V
This redemption arc has been a little. You know, it is what it is. I feel completely separate from it. I've never interviewed him. I have no intention to, but it's like, some of it, I'm like, okay.
- [20:21]
Tara Palmeri
You know, my ears perked up because I saw him at MSNBC talking. Yeah, Case, and he was saying, oh, yeah, when Trump says it's bullshit, like, it's not true. He never would have done that. I just know. I just know. And I was, like, thinking to myself, like, well, how does he know? And the hosts on msnbc, they never asked any questions.
- [20:37]
V
They never pushed back. Yeah.
- [20:39]
Tara Palmeri
I was like. I think the first question would be like, well, how do you know that? Right? You know, and it was just. It was just like, okay, let him. Let him say what he wants to say. And I get that. That people want to, like, lionize him as a resistance hero. But I still think this person knows a lot about what happened in a variety of different scenarios. And maybe he's afraid for his safety, or maybe he's afraid of speaking out because he would know, being the fixer, what happens when you cross President Trump. But that doesn't mean you should, like, bang the drum and say, I'm like, I don't know.
- [21:13]
V
It felt like he was covering for. I watched that msnbc and I was.
- [21:17]
Tara Palmeri
Like, you got the same feeling, right?
- [21:19]
V
Yeah. Where I was like, ooh, because you were with him at that time. Are you worried that if this does go forward, you'll be included as somebody who intimidated the Witness, even though you've gotten this redemption arc right now, so you're. It benefits him to shut that story off as well. And I was like, oh, I don't love that. I don't like that.
- [21:36]
Tara Palmeri
But, yeah, listen, I'm being investigative journalist. I'm just like, something smells. Doesn't smell right.
- [21:45]
V
Yeah, it's not right.
- [21:46]
Tara Palmeri
It's like, what's going on here?
- [21:50]
V
Speaking of not right, I was also really impressed with your story about Lisa Murkowski's ties to Epstein and what went on in Alaska. Can you tell folks a little bit about that?
- [22:01]
Tara Palmeri
It's a little bit tangled and convoluted, but as some of you may remember, it happened on the same day that Charlie Kirk died. So if you don't remember, got lost. It was a big day. But Lisa Murkowski was the deciding vote to not release the Epstein files. This was something that Chuck Schumer put forward, and she decided against releasing the Epstein files. And one of the survivors, Marika Chartuni, who I've had on my show, too, she is just one that, like, when she's trying to figure things out and, like, just needing to feel the power in this story that can make people feel very powerless, she turns to investigations and research because, you know, more information is power. I believe that for all of us, and we should think about that. As humans, we always question sources, always keep looking. So she's from Alaska, and she was like, this really hits deep for me. And she started digging, and she found that there are a lot of connections between Lisa Murkowski and the Len Maxwell through a very wealthy donor that she has and the owner of the Alaska Dispatch and Len Maxwell's husband, Scott Morrison. You're going to say Glenn Maxwell has been.
- [23:18]
V
She is married.
- [23:19]
Tara Palmeri
Yes. She has been married, yes. Yeah, she's been married for A while. And she met this guy at a conference that Lisa Murkowski also spoke at that was arranged by this donor that she's very close to with that they're both close with. So close with that. This Glenn flew around on the Cessna with this donor. Her name is Alice Rogoff. She was married to David Rubenstein. These names might mean something to some of you, and they may not mean much to others.
- [23:47]
V
David Rubenstein's name is on a lot of buildings in D.C. exactly.
- [23:50]
Tara Palmeri
He's a very wealthy man. He's a hedge fund guy. I believe so.
- [23:55]
V
Art collector, also art investor.
- [23:58]
Tara Palmeri
So just for a little bit more detail on all of this. So Lisa Murkowski and Scott Borgeson first link up, according to at least, like, records that we could find online in 2009, because. So Scott Borgeson is in the maritime trade industry. He has a company called Cargo Metrics, llc. Okay. And he's very invested in the archic, where he does trade and he does data collection of trade in the Arctic. Lisa Murkowski wants to expand Alaska's reach in the Arctic, claim more area that can expand the U.S. territory. It's something that she has been pushing for for a long time to ratify the Law of the Sea Treaty. That is what she has wanted for a very long time. So there's at least one article where they are testifying before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. Scott Borgeson is brought on as an expert in this industry on the Arctic. They continue to be at events like the Senate, like the Council of Foreign Relations, very prestigious. In small panels together. Alice Rogoff, the woman who I mentioned, the donor to, Lisa Murkowski, she's. Listen, Alaska's, like, this big. Okay.
- [25:16]
V
Yeah, sure.
- [25:17]
Tara Palmeri
It's tight. So she makes this group, a nonprofit called the Arctic Circle, and it's all about preserving the Arctic and expanding Alaska's reach within the Arctic.
- [25:27]
V
I bet you think she fucking nailed it on that naming, too. She was like, we're gonna call it the Arctic Circle.
- [25:33]
Tara Palmeri
Yeah. So the Arctic Circle. And at the same time, Glenn Maxwell is conveniently laundering her reputation, which has been destroyed because of her association with Jeffrey Epstein and the horrors that are coming out.
- [25:47]
V
Yeah.
- [25:48]
Tara Palmeri
By creating a sea preservation nonprofit called Terra Mar. Because the worst thing in the world is for. Poor little fish. Doesn't think about humans. Isn't the irony in that? Like the little fish. Yeah, exactly. So they're all on the sea circuit together. He meets Scott Borgeson at the inaugural Arctic Circle event. He's a married father of two. No Longer once he meets Glenn. There's even a picture of them together at the event, just having met. Smiles. That one. Glenn, Lisa Murkowski beamed into. But the second, the next year, 2014, they all spoke at this. And there are a number of events, and it's very clear that they're all in. And Scott Borgeson and Glenn Maxwell, from that. Sorry, Scott Borgeson and Lisa Murkowski, from that point forward, continue to. To participate in these. These arctic events together in Reykjavik, et cetera. So, yeah, she had a really close connection to Gwynne Maxwell. And I think before taking that vote, it probably should have been disclosed at the very least. That's my take. I mean, I don't know. Do you think that this is. That's fair?
- [27:02]
V
Yeah, I think that's absolutely fair. Especially for the fact that she constantly also tries to pretend like she's a protector of women and she cares so much about women, and she's like, I am a woman in a position of power in all of this. And so to come out and vote no on the Epstein thing, it was odd. It's just an oddity. Like, what woman votes no on the Epstein files? Why do you even care? Like, you should want other women to get the justice they deserve. And, like, you're not in it. You didn't rape anybody. So, like, why. Why wouldn't you do that? Why wouldn't you want that to come out? And so I think that this connection was very odd.
- [27:35]
Tara Palmeri
Alice Rogoff is in it.
- [27:37]
V
Sure. Or like, your donors or something are in. But I'm like that. I just think it made it very obvious that something was weird with that. And like you said, Alaska is small. But I mean, the thing. So on the other side of it, to come off the Republicans for a hot second in their involvement, there's also this undeniable continued tether between Ghislaine Maxwell and the Clintons, which went on after where, like, yes, she was at Chelsea Clinton's wedding, so were 560 people. But, like, she was there. She was seated on the aisle.
- [28:09]
Tara Palmeri
Yeah, look, that.
- [28:10]
V
That was a tight guest list, okay? You would have had to get Secret Service clearance to be that close to everybody here. So, like, obviously they knew she was on that. She didn't sneak in. Like, what's the deal with that? And is it like, I don't know, so much of this is weird, and so much of it probably could have been avoided.
- [28:26]
Tara Palmeri
Sorry to cut you off. She was an honored guest. The Clinton Global Initiative after Epstein's arrest as well.
- [28:31]
V
Fucking A, Tara. Come on.
- [28:33]
Tara Palmeri
And you can see in emails that have been released that she and Epstein were very close. Of course. Yeah. And she kept saying, like, I feel shame. What should I do? And he said, hold your head high. You've done nothing wrong. Oh, of course. Yeah. You've done nothing wrong. You've just run. Yeah, no, this is. So I wrote a piece for Politico called the Women who Enable Jeffrey Epstein. And it's like a long magazine piece, and the last part of it is about women, society women who allowed him to go back, come back into society after he went to prison for being a sex offender, for procuring a minor, for prostitution. And to me, they laundered his name, the name of a sex offender. And. And, you know, I. I just feel like that was all that those two could think about, was how to restore themselves so that they can get back into their chummy circles again. And then actually was really easy. It was really easy to get to hang out with Bill Gates again. It was really easy to get to hang out with Elon Musk and Peter Thiel. Turns out they don't give an F about what you went to prison for.
- [29:38]
V
Because it's elite versus, like, regular people. I mean, that's the problem we even have in politics. It's not even a right versus left situation anymore. It's power and people who don't have power. And how are you going to, you know, mess with that? If we could just get that together, it'd be in a lot better situation. But in these circles, taboo is not taboo to them. That's like, if. So Epstein was doing all the weird stuff he was doing. Then you had all of the people who were, like, super closeted having all of these massive orgy sex affairs in New York also while then voting against gay marriage. Like, there is a certain level of power that people reach, and then once they've seen into the machine and been included to the cocktail party, they don't want to not be included again, because oftentimes somebody's got blackmail on them and their weird little freak kink that they have in the world. And it's like, so I get why they all keep each other together, but the gerontocracy is killing us, man. You all stayed in power for so long that your secrets are now finally coming out, because there's a younger group of people, at least, who don't have the same secrets. I mean, I'm sure millennials have shit that they did that'll come out later. But, like, it's maddening. It's maddening every day.
- [30:39]
Tara Palmeri
At least it's a little bit more out in the open with the millennials. Yeah, I think we didn't have any money.
- [30:44]
V
What were we gonna do? You're gonna find out, like, one of us did blow in a bathroom one time. Like, okay, like that was. Has it ever got for anybody? We didn't have any money or power or lake houses. And all of the boomer era, people were still in power and still making all the decisions. So I think in some ways maybe their. Their lust for power and money will maybe be their undoing in the end, at least. Hopefully. Do you think the Epstein files will come out? Do you think that people still care a lot about it?
- [31:14]
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- [31:55]
Tara Palmeri
N rakuten.com sadly, I think the Trump will veto it. But even if he didn't, the DOJ is just not an honest actor, certainly not in this administration. They've never been good at self policing, and I don't think that they will if they do. It'll just be what you see. Like what you see on the Epstein vault on the FBI is just redactions, redactions, redactions, blank pages. So that's. I know I'm a cynic, but I actually think if things are going to come out, it's going to be because of leaks. It's going to be because of victims who finally feel comfortable about coming forward. And yeah, what about the Epstein estate?
- [32:33]
V
Because Mark, the brother is seemingly like, here's the birthday book. Like, do you think that the estate.
- [32:39]
Tara Palmeri
He was subpoenaed.
- [32:40]
V
Yeah, but do you think that that's a better avenue than trying to go the congressional.
- [32:44]
Tara Palmeri
If the Democrats have power. They're. They're going to have subpoena power.
- [32:48]
V
Yeah.
- [32:48]
Tara Palmeri
I don't think you can f. With subpoena power. Right, right. Will they call the Clintons, though? Will they demand that they.
- [32:54]
V
Oh, they should. Why not just get it over with? I feel like Hillary would come and get it over with. That bit just stood up against a whole lot of stuff. Right.
- [33:03]
Tara Palmeri
It's pretty gross.
- [33:04]
V
It's so disgusting. But I think if she got called in, she would handle it and have to do it. And, like, sure, you should have to do it. She did that debate with all of the women that had allegations against her husband when she debated Trump for president. Remember, Trump sat, like, all the women who accused her very own husband of impropriety in the front row there. Like.
- [33:22]
Tara Palmeri
Yeah, she's used to it. She's used to it.
- [33:25]
V
Look, man, you've been in power for so long, you gotta do it. You gotta come in and you gotta tell the truth, and it probably is gonna suck, and it's probably gonna be gross and bad, and you have to do it. That's what I think. I wouldn't. I don't. I don't love anybody.
- [33:38]
Tara Palmeri
I don't know if that actually happened.
- [33:40]
V
So if it would actually happen, I wonder. Yeah.
- [33:45]
Tara Palmeri
Oh, you're like, I hope people do the right thing.
- [33:48]
V
Like, I'm thinking, like, would Chelsea do the right thing? No. Not that she would do the wrong thing, but she's not like a, you know, a figure that's going to, like, push her parents to, like, testify or something. Yeah.
- [33:59]
Tara Palmeri
Yeah. I don't know.
- [34:01]
V
A lot of these people who were involved in the Epstein stuff, unfortunately, are dead and will face no justice. A lot of the victims, like, we've seen have either decided, like, it's too painful. We've tried so many times, and, like, how. How many times can you spend your one precious life, like, continuing to put yourself through the hell that we saw them go through on the steps of the Capitol. They're just incredibly brave. They're coming back. I heard to. To talk more about it, but, like, I worry that folks will lose interest or that they were waiting for some list to come out that was gonna be, like, everyone that the. Either every Republican we ever hated, and they would go to jail and it would finally work. Or every Democrat you think is good is, like, actually bad, and they would go to jail, and I don't know that there will be the accountability that these women deserve, and that sucks.
- [34:50]
Tara Palmeri
Yeah. I don't think I'm. I think the Accountability will come through the drip, drip, drip of whistleblowers. That's what we need right now. But who. I mean, every time the Epstein estate drops something new, there are new leaks. It just keeps the story alive.
- [35:10]
V
Yeah.
- [35:10]
Tara Palmeri
And it's a reminder of how far we still have to go.
- [35:14]
V
Has there ever been anything like this in American history or world history? I don't. I think the Epstein thing is, like, so uniquely horrifying. I can't ever compare it to anything.
- [35:24]
Tara Palmeri
I think also the fact that the Justice Department is so deeply involved in the injustice, I think that's part of it as well. And there may have been, you know, connections to intelligence. And he was obviously, multiple times in his career that we know, an informant on various cases. And what. It goes kind of back to the whitey bolter.
- [35:47]
V
Okay.
- [35:48]
Tara Palmeri
You know, if you think about it like he was killing people while being an informant for the FBI, it's just there's so many angles to this, you know, international allies. I think he was. I think he was a. I think he was giving information to multiple countries. And. What does that mean?
- [36:09]
V
Yeah, he was not loyal to anybody. Right. I mean, he was like the biggest, baddest bad guy that's ever. Bad guy. He was bad all over the place. Do you think that Mike Johnson regrets saying that Trump was an informant?
- [36:20]
Tara Palmeri
Yeah, well, he. Everything he says, he just has no credibility. He's another one where I'm like, I don't. Anything he says, I'm just like.
- [36:27]
V
Him, honestly. Like, I, you know, I don't really watch cable television just because it's, like, it takes too long to get to the point for me. I, like, I can't be bothered. But seeing, like, him or Hakeem Jeffries or anybody in politics on there right now, I'm like, y' all are too media trained for me to even worry about what you have to say. I could just read your tweets, I guess, and it'll be the same.
- [36:49]
Tara Palmeri
Yeah. No one's really speaking to me. Like, I don't feel.
- [36:53]
V
They're not going to talk to you, Tara. You get in there too deep.
- [36:56]
Tara Palmeri
Yeah.
- [36:56]
V
I've seen you interview people.
- [36:58]
Tara Palmeri
I don't know when I. When I. That's probably why I'm just like, this is so surface.
- [37:02]
V
It's very surface. But they're not going to folks like you, because you would ask Michael Cohen. Well, how do you know that? And then, yeah, they freak out because they're used to, like, a friendly press.
- [37:13]
Tara Palmeri
Yeah. Gotta hold truth to power. Doesn't matter who has it, because you know what? If you don't, you're gonna get egg on your face because power corrupts absolutely. Doesn't matter who has it. And I think story tells you that too.
- [37:27]
V
Yeah, for sure.
- [37:28]
Tara Palmeri
It is a story of corruption on both sides. It is a story of injustice. But we have to, we can't treat one, you know, group as the saviors. I mean, I do think there's a little bit of a savior complex going on right now with the Democratic Party because they don't have the cult of personality that Donald Trump has. And I think they have to be aware of that, that they don't fall into the trap and then they end up investing into some sort of like, figure that does not end up really leading them forward. That's my, that's just my two cents, you know, My two cents too.
- [37:59]
V
I'm like, yeah, okay, the, the newsome stuff was funny the first two times. Like, what are we actually doing, guys? What are we doing?
- [38:05]
Tara Palmeri
I mean, to have a good communicator in the party, sure, right.
- [38:08]
V
But with like his memeing of Trump, I'm like, it's funny, but what are we gonna do? I don't know.
- [38:14]
Tara Palmeri
Yeah. Ugh, God. What's happening in Chicago is horrible, dude.
- [38:19]
V
Yeah. Other than Epstein, what other kind of stuff are you working on right now? Like, what are some things that you think are.
- [38:25]
Tara Palmeri
Well, I've been kind of back to sort of figuring out what's going on with the midterms. And you know, I interviewed Jeff Rowe, who's a Republican. Republican, sorry, strategist on my show. Just because, like, I think it's useful to listen to the other side, hear what they're thinking and hearing what they're saying. He thinks obviously the shutdown is gonna have zero impact on the election. He thinks that as long as they win the redistricting in California, that he believes that they have a good, that they could hold on to the House. And you know, I was like, well, what about all the pain that farmers are feeling right now? And he said, you know, short term pain. I'm like, I don't know that that is going to translate to the midterms. I had James Carville on my show. It's about to drop today, so everybody should sign up to the red letter or the Tara Palmieri show. He actually said Democrats are in the best place that they've been in a long time. He is a hopeful Ragin Cajun because as you know, he can be sharp elbowed and he doesn't hold back. He doesn't pull his punches, but he feels like the party is in a good place for once as long as they don't mess it up. And he thinks that, like, they'll win this shutdown fight and they'll get the subsidies on Obamacare. And he's, he's excited. You know, he said at one time, I haven't seen a star in the party since 2012. And now he thinks that the party is filled with stars. And yeah, he named Alyssa Slotkin and Andy Beshear. And I'm trying to think, oh, you know, he didn't love the Commonwealth Harris book tour, which, who can blame him? The revenge. Yeah. And then he, he had some words for.
- [40:10]
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- [40:39]
Tara Palmeri
David Hogg. Because, you know, David Hogg hits too.
- [40:43]
V
Close to his bones, I think, because from, like, my perspective, I see them as very similar. I have actually called David Hogg the James Carville of this generation.
- [40:52]
Tara Palmeri
Yeah.
- [40:53]
V
And I think that that irks them about each other when they're. It's like looking in too much of a mirror. Well, they're friends now, but yeah, I.
- [41:00]
Tara Palmeri
Had them on my podcast and they were dueling. And yes, they were like. He was like son, and he likes them a lot.
- [41:06]
V
Well, that's why I think they're too similar sometimes. Yeah.
- [41:10]
Tara Palmeri
The only thing I will say, though, about David Hogg, and I don't know if you've seen this in the recent reporting, it's like he's not really spending the money in his super PAC effectively. I mean, the races that they're investing in, they're losing. Deja Fox lost in Arizona. They gave the working family party $300,000. But then they're also, like, giving their employees, like, class pass, which is great, but it's also, it's a super pac grassroots money. Like, this isn't, you know, it's not like you're going to Miriam Adelson shaking her down. Like, you know, so I think people were hoping that they could get more from him. But I do think this is probably partially a symptom of his age and running a real organization. And. And, you know, as. As. As Carville said, you don't join the DNC and then try to take out the members that you're supposed to be supporting.
- [42:04]
V
So I know it's going to be a weird midterms. I've not done anything electoral, really, this year because I was like, we need a break. There was a grief period for a lot of people after the Kamala stuff and, like, just the loss and like, just, you know, like, obviously I'm in the LGBTQ community and dealing with that a lot and, like, immigration, like, we're all seeing, like, the sort of, like, consequences of the Trump presidency on marginalized folks. And so it's been like, trying to build community and take care of folks there and not burden people with, like, who's running for office and what's going on. And, like, let's keep it up. And I'll probably try to stick to that. Well, till March or April, ideally, hopefully, maybe we even make it to the summer, because, boy, are people not wanting to hear it. And God help you, Democrats or anyone if you send one of those donation texts from Nancy Pelosi. I just don't think. I think there are ways that it could get ruined. And some of it might be the messaging and it might be the fundraising situation.
- [43:02]
Tara Palmeri
Get rid of the poobahs. That party is just too run by poobahs. Yeah, they poo poo the poobahs.
- [43:08]
V
Yeah, we have to, you know, and we just need new faces out there, and not because we don't respect the old places. I said this when I talked to Joe Biden a while back, which was like, it's not that I don't want you to be the president. I think you've been a great president. It's that I want you to be this mentor. I need you to be. I need, like, this generation of politicians who say they have so much wisdom, then be around. So when inevitably the next generation makes a mistake, you could help them out of it. You could be a safety net. You could be a little bit of a leader, but not the controller, like the wise old guru on the Hill, you know?
- [43:40]
Tara Palmeri
Yeah, it's a big thing, but it.
- [43:41]
V
Way a little bit.
- [43:41]
Tara Palmeri
It's a bit condescending, too, to the voter. It makes, you know who. Who they are increasingly choosing more progressive candidates, as we saw with Zohrandani. And I think it's a sign that we don't trust your best judgment. We're going to pick candidates for you because we know who's going to win. And that's all about winning. And then you're going to have to eat your, you know, dog food.
- [44:01]
V
Well, they're treating it like teacher's pet. And my argument was, people vote for Lauren Boebert because she is a divorced survivor of domestic violence who has a troubled son. And that's something that women can relate to. That's something that my mom's like, oh, yeah, I know. I don't like her policies, really. But, boy, that girl's been through a lot, huh? And it's like, we don't have anybody our age to look at and go, okay, on a parallel level, there's some flawed characters out there who are doing their best and trying. It's like, no, Chuck Schumer is running for the 90th year in a row. You can tell me there's nobody else in New York City who could be a good senator. Come on, we got to trust.
- [44:36]
Tara Palmeri
Well, that's the other thing people complain about. They're like, it's too coastal. The. The party. And it is true. I mean, you have a republic. Sorry, Minority leader. From New York. And you have a minority leader. Yeah.
- [44:51]
V
So it's from New York City, even.
- [44:53]
Tara Palmeri
You know, I know. So.
- [44:55]
V
Well, we'll see what's happening. Where are you at in the world now?
- [44:58]
Tara Palmeri
Okay. I just play one on subscription.
- [45:01]
V
Okay, you're. So you're in D.C. right? Are you in New York now?
- [45:05]
Tara Palmeri
I'm in New York right now.
- [45:05]
V
Oh, good. Okay.
- [45:06]
Tara Palmeri
Yeah, but, you know, I'm always there back and forth. I live there for a long time. But.
- [45:11]
V
Yeah.
- [45:13]
Tara Palmeri
Aw. You know, my, like, all of my childhood friends are going to be like, oh, my God, you were on with.
- [45:18]
V
V. Be like, yeah, me and V talk. We text. We're pals.
- [45:23]
Tara Palmeri
But, like, it's way cooler to be on your show than any of, like, Ms. Oh, yeah, cnn. I get way more messages from people when I'm on your show, which I love. Good.
- [45:35]
V
I love, because it's a fun place to hang out. Look at this art. Okay. It's a joyful place. And we mostly talk shit and speculate, and sometimes that's really healing. Somebody in the comments earlier was like, stop gossiping. I was like, I will not. I will not. This is a sub stack live. Okay? This is. I'm not even, like, dressed. We're just here to hang and, like, talk about what's going on, like, normal people, you know?
- [45:57]
Tara Palmeri
Yeah, exactly. When I saw your backdrop, that was my. I tried. I mean, I don't have the color. Color scheme, but I am.
- [46:04]
V
Oh, yeah. It looks good, though.
- [46:05]
Tara Palmeri
I have a purple dresser.
- [46:07]
V
Yes.
- [46:09]
Tara Palmeri
Yeah. My picture. Great, great grandfather in Sicily with his brothers behind.
- [46:16]
V
I love.
- [46:17]
Tara Palmeri
Yeah. And then I have my. When I left the New York Post, where I was a reporter in my 20s.
- [46:22]
V
Yeah.
- [46:22]
Tara Palmeri
They didn't. They said that it was impossible that I would leave to go to Europe to be a journalist. They put palmaries Secret Revealed in Fidel. They said that I was going to Cuba to start a sex drafting trade because they sent me there for, like, long period of time to try to find a fugitive.
- [46:42]
V
I can't.
- [46:43]
Tara Palmeri
Yeah, yeah.
- [46:44]
V
Like, you gotta love your haters.
- [46:46]
Tara Palmeri
It was like, Assata Shakur. It was Tupac Shakur's.
- [46:50]
V
Yes. Rest in power. Mrs. Sada Shakur. Yeah.
- [46:53]
Tara Palmeri
Yeah. Well, she killed a cop in New Jersey, which is, like, the worst thing you can do at the New York.
- [46:57]
V
The worst thing you can do in New Jersey, for sure. But what an interesting life.
- [47:01]
Tara Palmeri
Yeah. Well, I never got to her for that exclusive interview, so I just got food poisoning multiple times to the point where I was like, can I just please come home? In Cuba, I was there over Christmas. I didn't even spend Christmas with my family. I was like, can I come home, please?
- [47:18]
V
That job making boxes at the pizza place, getting your ass grabbed, didn't seem so bad.
- [47:22]
Tara Palmeri
It was only been downhill from there.
- [47:26]
V
There were so many times in this job where I'm like, I can go back to the kitchen.
- [47:30]
Tara Palmeri
I can go back.
- [47:31]
V
It'd be fine. It's safe there. It's safe there. Which is scary to thank. Oh, my God, Tara, it is always so fun chatting with you. We'll catch up on more stuff. I'm trying to just, like, be peaceful through the end of the year because shit is so bad, man. And I. I feel, like, guilty sometimes when I have to do the news at night, because I'm like, man, I'm about to ruin everybody's sleep. But we must.
- [47:59]
Tara Palmeri
We must ruin their sleep.
- [48:00]
V
We must. Me and Tara, if there's one thing you can count on from us, we will ruin your day. Okay? But it'll be. It'll be stuff you have to know.
- [48:10]
Tara Palmeri
My friend was like, why don't we have a positive news day? And I said, or a positive news app or something like that. I was like, but then it wouldn't be news, because when a plane lands, that's not news, right? It's news what doesn't land. And if you want to know the truth, then go move to Russia.
- [48:28]
V
Yeah, I try to pill stuff, but, yeah, we can't have just. Because then people would be lulled into complacency and we'd all be called, like, you know, feds.
- [48:41]
Tara Palmeri
There are a lot of people that would like us to just write positive news. They work in the White House.
- [48:45]
V
They do. They do indeed. I mean, there's people out there. They'll do it, but. All right, my friend, do you have any good news? What's, like, one good thing that's happening in your life right now?
- [48:57]
Tara Palmeri
That's a good question.
- [48:58]
V
You're in New York. That's always good.
- [49:00]
Tara Palmeri
Yeah, I'm gonna. I don't want to reveal too much, but we hit 100k on YouTube. That's amazing.
- [49:09]
V
You get your play button?
- [49:11]
Tara Palmeri
Yeah. When's my play button coming in?
- [49:13]
V
It'll come soon. Yeah, they'll send you, like, an email, and then you have to, like, apply for it.
- [49:17]
Tara Palmeri
That was my dog. She's desperate for a walk.
- [49:19]
V
Oh, my God, this baby. Okay, well, let your dog go on the walk. We will be back. Follow Tara, write letter and tell Tara Palmerie show on YouTube.
- [49:29]
Tara Palmeri
Bye.
- [49:30]
V
Bye.
- [49:30]
Tara Palmeri
Friends, thank you again for joining the Tara Palmieri Show. If you like this show, please subscribe, rate it, share it with all of your friends. If you like my journalism, go to tarapaulmary.com and sign up for my newsletter, the Red Letter, where you can get my code exclusive reporting and analysis straight to your inbox. And it's a way to support my independent journalism. I want to thank my team, my producer, Eric Abenate, my researcher Abby Baker, Adam Stewart, who does my thumbnails, and Dan Rosen, who is helping me with my business strategy as the Red Letter community grows. Thank you all for all of your support, and I will see you again.