← The Tara Palmeri Show
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- [00:01]
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- [00:32]
Tara Palmeri
Welcome back to the Tara Palmary Show. I know what you're thinking. What is this corny title I got dared to go on Joe Rogan. Well, it's true. I was on MSNBC this week and Nicole Wallace and the former Senator Claire McCaskill said you should go on Joe Rogan and talk to his audience and and tell them exactly what you know about Ghislaine Maxwell.
- [00:58]
Claire McCaskill
And you know, I'm going to beg, Tara, you need to book yourself on Joe Rogan with one of the victims. And you need to say on that and any other place in the right wing media sphere, you can.
- [01:09]
Sam Stein
Tara Palmeri, your reporting is so valuable and so appreciated. Thank you so much. And I agree with what Claire said. You should be a guest on Joe Rogan's podcast and share your knowledge with his listeners. I think they'd like it.
- [01:23]
Tara Palmeri
The full story, the full picture. Glenn Maxwell, how she groomed the girls, how she brought them in, how she touched them first. But even more, the psychology of Glenn Maxwell. I have been investigating her and Jeffrey for years. I did two podcasts on them. Broken Jeffrey Epstein, Power, the Maxwells. I'm in the Netflix documentary on on Glenn Maxwell, Fitz Filthy Rich. Because apparently the MAGA base is really softening on Galan Maxwell and questioning if she is a victim herself, as if that's even possible. And I didn't believe it. Also, we're going to blame someone for this title. I'm going to blame my producer, Eric. He insisted on it. But Eric knows the MAGA base and he says it's real. There really is a lot of doubt about Ghislaine Maxwell and it's infuriating for me because I know so much about her. I know the kind of damage she did to these girls. So many of them are more angry with her for the abuse than they are with Epstein. And it's because of the betrayal trauma, something we spoke about earlier. The idea that she was supposed to be the one to protect them, provide their security. And then she was the one that violated them. She was the one that Called Annie Farmer's mother and said, don't worry, I'll take care of her. You can let her go to the Zorro ranch in New Mexico. And that was the place where Glenn Maxwell was the first one to touch Annie, to touch her breasts. And then Jeffrey Epstein jumped into bed with her. Or in the case of Virginia Roberts, getting into the women's locker room, a place where Jeffrey Epstein couldn't go in Mar a Lago, by the way, seeing her reading a book about wanting to be a masseuse and saying, I can fulfill your dreams. You can become a traveling masseuse for a wealthy man. And then bringing her back to Epstein's house, a 50 year old man's house, and being the one to take her panties off and then molest her alongside Jeffrey Epstein. She was involved in the actual molestation of these girls. She didn't just bring them to Jeffrey. I can also explain too, the psychology of Glenn Maxwell, the daddy issues, how he was incredibly cruel to her and how Jeffrey Epstein was actually really cruel to her too. And will sort of help you understand how a woman could become this depraved. How a woman could spend her days looking for young girls for a man to, to molest and to molest herself. Her father dehumanized people all the time. His name was Robert Maxwell. He's a press baron. He's well known, he's actually well known for just being a vile human being. He owned the Daily Mirror and he stole from the pension. He stole from the money of the pensioners. It is from the employees. He stole their pensions. He stole their retirement. Okay, and then he mysteriously falls off the side of a yacht named Lady Galen after his favorite child. She believes he was murdered. Much like Jeffrey Epstein, a mysterious murderer. And he was thought to be Mossad. He also owned the New York Daily News. You may know that newspaper, MTV Europe. They were fabulously wealthy. They flew around on helicopters. She went to Oxford. But at the same time, he would berate her. He would, you know, call her out in front of people and make sure she, you know, knew her Latin. And he would quiz her randomly or he would lock her out of his kitchen when she was suffering with an eating disorder. And at the same time, he would praise her for being beautiful and he would, he would meow at her. They had this weird relationship where they would meow at each other and there was just this push and pull where she was constantly trying to please her father. There was. The relationship was weird. Often Galen, because she was so young and beautiful, would Fill in for the role of his wife, Betty, who, in a weird way, it's kind of like how Trump is really proud of Ivanka because she's so beautiful and likes to have her on his arm. By the way, there is a weird Trump connection through the father, Robert Maxwell. Glenn Maxwell has known Trump for a really long time. In fact, there is a record, according to Robert Maxwell's biographer, who I interviewed, of Trump going on the Lighty Glen in the Hudson River. By the way, there was a party there. And of course, Trump would want to know Robert Maxwell, especially if he owned the New York Daily News. When I worked at the New York Post, when I was a cub reporter, I'd met Donald Trump many, many times because he loved the paper. He invited me to all of these events. He wanted to be quoted. He was a rent a quote. Of course he would want to be with the publisher of the New York Daily News. So, you know, they go way back. And in fact, in my documentary, Sorry, in my podcast, I recall speaking with an assistant for Robert Maxwell who said that she asked her father, daddy, can I sell my corporate, you know, can I sell my corporate gifts? That was the latest kind of project, fake job she had to Donald Trump. And he was like, what the f would Donald Trump want with that? So he was incredibly terrible to her. And Jeffrey Epstein was pretty terrible to her, too. I mean, he would call her stupid and scream at her in front of people. The houseman, Jeffrey Epstein, Epstein's houseman, who I interviewed, recalled that Galen would often cry when they drove around looking for girls, that it made her feel terrible, but she felt like she couldn't leave Jeffrey. We found out later on that Jeffrey Epstein promised to provide for her for her entire life. So there was some weird stuff going on there. So she basically worked for Jeffrey Epstein, and it's believed that her father introduced the two. And after he died, he wanted to set up his daughter to be provided for for the rest of her life with Jeffrey Epstein. And I do know that after he died, she lived in a pretty modest apartment on the Upper east side, and that during that time, she kept telling people, I'm broke, I'm broke. That's what she told her friends that I interviewed. But she's. She was a horrendous person. This is no way for you to feel any sort of pity for Galen Maxwell, as if you could ever feel pity for her. In fact, one of the friends that I quoted, Christina Oxenberg, who told me about this apartment on the Upper east side, she had visited there she told me that when. When Galen would talk about the girls that he had to find, that she had to find for Jeffrey, she said, who are these girls? And she said, they're nothing. They're trash. They're tissues. You could throw them away. Right. Tissues you could throw away. So this is a woman who is out there looking for young girls promising to fulfill their dreams, desperate girls, ambitious girls, whatever, telling them that they're wonderful, they're beautiful, they can. She can help them become a model. She knows Les Wexner, which she did, the guy who owned Victoria's Secret. She could make their dreams come true. And, you know, then she says she'll take care of them, and she's the woman. She leads them into a trap. Into a trap. A trap that she's involved in. It's disgusting. There's. There should be no clemency for this person. And there should be no trust of her story either. And if you knew about her father too, I mean, he was disgusting. He would pee off the side of his helicopter onto people. I mean, he would use the hand towels on his bum and leave them for people in the bathroom. He was a. He was a foul, foul person. So I just think we have to remember, like, she. She is used to being around depraved people. She's a depraved person herself and she craved the love of these really perverse men. And I think at the end of the day, she's not the key to the lock on the Epstein story. She may know a lot, but she will only do what she thinks she can to save herself. And that we should really be going to the victims and we should be asking them, the survivors. Let me clarify. Sometimes I say victims, but they are survivors. And you know, I do also want to talk about that. I mean, a lot of people say, well, why don't we know more? Why aren't the survivors speaking up? And it's like, it's a really scary time right now. I'm trying to do reporting on this story. As we know, powerful men, they sue for defamation. They can ruin your life. It's why a lot of these women just settle. They don't want to deal with it. They don't want to be re traumatized. They don't even really want to deal with the prosecutors who always let them down. I mean, they let them down in 2008 when one federal prosecutor, Marie Vilafagnia, recommended 60 charges against Jeffrey Epstein and the federal government decided to charge him with zero charges. Instead, he got. He got. He was charged with state crimes procuring a child for prostitution, as if a child could be procured for prostitution. He spent, you know, 13 months in a county jail and some work release. It was pathetic. And you think these women are going to want to speak up again? You think that they think that the government is looking out for them? They don't. It's just another form of betrayal trauma. Again, the government is supposed to be looking out for you, right? The Justice Department is supposed to bring justice. And if you're not getting it, why would you go through the re traumatization? And that's why I brought Annie Farmer on the show to talk more about that. I do have some more reporting, though, coming up on Jeffrey Epstein's connections to the intelligence community, and that'll be coming up in another show. You know, I've been thinking about it lately, too, because I'm like, this story just gives me nightmares, as it does to anyone who actually cares and hears the women when they speak and listens to their stories. Because this is a really, really terrible story. And I think, how did I end up back here again? And at this phase in my life when I'm an independent journalist with no editor telling me what to do and I can really pursue it again the way I want to, and how difficult it is and how I'm again feeling like I'm having doors slammed in my face or having people hanging up on me. Just like when I driving around the country with Virginia trying to find people to verify her story. And I remember feeling terrible. And this was in February 2020, and I had just left ABC News a few months earlier. I didn't know where my life was heading after that. There was no clear path, no job. I was doing this podcast with with on Jeffrey Epstein, with Julie K. Brown and Adam McKay and Adam Davidson, and working so closely with Virginia. And I was just like, what are we doing here? We're not getting anywhere close to justice for her. What am I doing here? And Virginia looked at me with that spirit that she has, that I don't know how to describe it, but that hopeful spirit. And she goes, everything's gonna be okay. And then she turns on that song from Frozen, Let It Go, and blasts it in our rental car in Florida as we drive down 95 to Palm Beach. And we're going, let it go, let it go. We're just singing it at the top of our lungs. And I don't know, there's just something that I feel right now that I have to keep pursuing that story. Now that it's all come back around, and it's sad that she's no longer alive. And, I mean, it's incredibly sad to hear that. And I do think if she was alive, she could be helping so much to really unlock so much of it. But I don't want to fail her either. I want to keep pursuing that justice for her. And I think that's part of the reason why I felt like I had to speak up on the Nicole Wallace show, which you'll hear in a few minutes. You know why I felt like I had to say no. President Trump, that's not true. You didn't care about Virginia Robertson, a person that you say was stolen. As if a person could be stolen. She met you through Jeffrey Epstein, according to what she told me. She actually told me she thought you were polite and who hoped that you might release the files. So I have to just say no. That is not what she told me. And also, it doesn't add up the timeline. Virginia was in their wet between 2000 and 2002. In 2002, President Trump makes a comment in New York magazine. Jeffrey Epstein is terrific. He likes young. He likes beautiful women as much as I do. Some of them are on the younger side. Okay. Virginia was stolen. As if she could be stolen again like a Rolex. Michael and Maxwell, the woman that you are entertaining a pardon for right now in 2000, and you had no problem with that. Also, Jeffrey Epstein remained a member of your club until 2007, even though the White House says that he was removed from being a creep during that time. He was under investigation, federal investigation for sex trafficking. Okay. Yeah, I just had to. I just really had to cut through that.
- [14:16]
Annie Farmer
I hope you enjoy this or feel.
- [14:18]
Tara Palmeri
Like you're getting some clarity. It's hard to enjoy it. That probably wasn't the right word, but take a listen here and thank you all for joining the channel. The new ones, the old ones, the support, don't care about the bots. I'm gonna keep going. And thank you for your patience, too. Like I said, this kind of reporting takes time. There are really powerful forces involved, and I do want to bring justice and be a part of this as much as I can. And I also want to make sure that we keep the focus on the victims, the survivors, and make sure that people aren't just using them as political pawns in their games. Because here's the truth. Everyone looks messy, Democrats and Republicans. It is not good for anyone. Take a listen here.
- [15:07]
Child Speaker
Mom, dad, you should shop Amazon for Back to school and save some money. See, I'm currently obsessed with superheroes and need all the superhero stuff. Superhero lunchbox, superhero backpack. But next year it'll be something else. Maybe dinosaurs, I don't know. I'm not a fortune teller, but I can tell you not to say spend a fortune and shop. Low prices for school on Amazon. K. Good chat Amazon. Spend less, smile more.
- [15:37]
Sam Stein
Podcast host, author of the Red Letter on Substack, Tara Palmeri's back. Tara has hosted two investigative series on the topic called Broken Jeffrey Epstein and Power the Maxwells. Also joining us, managing editor of the Bulwark, MSNBC contributor Sam Stein. And rounding out our panel, former Democratic senator MSNBC political analyst Claire McCaskill is here. Tara, I wonder if you can sort of tell me how much what Trump said is new. I mean, the line from the press secretary had simply been that he had a falling out with Epstein because Epstein was a creep. I don't know that we'd heard the specificity with which Trump decided he was a creep. It was because he was, quote, stealing employees from the spa and that they included.
- [16:24]
Claire McCaskill
That's not true.
- [16:26]
Sam Stein
Go ahead.
- [16:27]
Annie Farmer
Yeah, sorry, I have to interject on this because when I, when I heard that I was just, I was, it was, it's just not true. I worked very closely with Virginia Giuffre. If you listen to Broken Jeffrey Epstein, we traveled all over the country together trying to find people who could corroborate her story. And in the, in the actual, you know, podcast, we find someone who recalls when she was found at Mar A Lago. And by the way, it was an Epstein, it was Ghislaine Maxwell, the woman he's considering setting free, who actually procured, procured Virginia. But they remained friends during that time. And Virginia told me that she met Donald Trump through Jeffrey Epstein. And Virginia was only with Epstein from 2000 to 2002. And there are pictures of Jeffrey and Trump together in that year 2000. Donald Trump praised Jeffrey Epstein, said he was a terrific guy. Remember that famous New York Magazine quote? That was at the time when he claimed that he was so furious about stealing Virginia Giuffre. The timeline doesn't add up. It doesn't reflect any of the reporting that I've seen. And also, Donald Trump was deposed by one of the victims, the lawyers for the victims, Brad Edwards. And when he told the story, it was over real estate. It was over a piece of paper property, Palm beach waterfront property. They got in a bidding war, and because of it, Trump had to pay more. He ended up having to pay over $40 million for a property ironically called the House of Friendship. And he was furious that Epstein. He called him up and he cursed him out over it, and that was the end of their friendship. And that was in 2004. It just doesn't line up, and it doesn't make any sense at all.
- [18:09]
Sam Stein
And if you could just remind us, I mean, Trump has either been reminded or remembers Virginia. Tell us her story.
- [18:19]
Annie Farmer
I'm not sure that he necessarily remembers her. I mean, she told me that she was never trafficked to Donald Trump, but she was very critical in the operation. I mean, in the sense that she was a sex slave to the. To Epstein from the ages of 16 to 18. And. And she was there and basically passed around to his friends. Friends, like she said, like a platter on. Like a fruit on a fruit platter. And so she saw a lot. She traveled all over the world with him. She's all over the flight logs with all of these powerful men. She was trafficked to powerful men. And she came forward about Prince Andrew. She was one of the first victims to be public back in 2011. You know, Glenn Maxwell perjured herself twice in the case against Virginia Roberts Giuffre. But, you know, even in the case of Virginia, I just want to point out again, for anyone who says that Ghislaine deserves any sort of clemency. When Virginia ended up in Epstein's house, it was Golan who took her panties off. That was the first person who touched her. It was Glenn who brought her there. It was Galen who found her at it at Mar a Lago. And that was the same case with Annie Farmer. It was Glenn who. Who touched her first. And I think any sort of idea that that Glenn was just some sort of, like, victim, as they're saying on Newsmax and other places, is absurd. She was a pedophile. She did the exact same thing. And this whole idea that President Trump was upset about it at the time is absurd.
- [19:44]
Sam Stein
What is, Tara, your best understanding of why MAGA seems to exonerate Glenn Maxwell's sexual abuse of these girls? Are they unaware of it? Do they not believe it? I mean, she sounds like the sexual abuser that at speed, was.
- [20:03]
Annie Farmer
It's like. Exactly. It's like they don't want to hear these stories. I just interviewed Annie Farmer for my podcast, and Annie was very explicit in explaining this. She testified in the case about how.
- [20:15]
Tara Palmeri
She would have never ended up there.
- [20:16]
Annie Farmer
Glenn literally got on the phone with Annie Farmer's mother and convinced her that it was okay for her daughter to go to this ranch, Zorro Ranch, because she had promised them that they were going to pay for the tuition for their daughter. I mean, this is, you know, they preyed on children. The houseman that I spoke to for Epstein, Juan Alessi, he worked for him since the 1990s, he said that their ritual was to drive around and for Ghislaine Maxwell to look for three girls for Jeffrey Epstein per day to satisfy his needs. I mean, this is a predator. And then once she got them in the door, she was involved in the sexual acts. And I don't think they want to hear this. They want, they want to create the impression that she is somehow absolved of all of this. All of these girls, especially the young ones, they have the same exact story because it was Glenn and the grooming of a woman bringing him in. They would have never showed up on a 50 year old doorsteps if it wasn't for an adult posh woman who did not look like a madam. I mean, she's wearing Ralph Lauren. She went to Oxford. Her father was a press baron. He owned the New York Daily News, the Daily Mirror. Incredibly posh as a little, you know, Yorkshire terrier Max he was called. And they would drive around in a chauffeured vehicle and she said, oh, you're beautiful. I'm going to make you a model. I know Les Wexner who she did know, who owned Victoria's Secret. It was all very credible. And then she trapped them and also molested them. And I feel like that needs be to, to be told more and more, is that she was involved in the sexual pedophilia as well.
- [21:52]
Sam Stein
Tara, what is your theory behind why Trump is talking about these chapters and these people by name and telling these stories that based on your reporting are not true?
- [22:09]
Annie Farmer
I have no idea. Because that timeline, it just proves that there's pictures, there's quotes, there's so many things to suggest that if he really believes that telling the story that, that the procuring of Virginia was what truly offended him, then why was, why did he continue to stay in, in Epstein's circle during that period of time from 2000 to 2002, why did they break up in 2004?
- [22:33]
Sam Stein
You know, Claire, I think this is, it's not just a line in the sand. It's, it's a good, it's a good start. Which Joe Rogan is, is describing there. It is determinative about the independence of what is really one of the most vibrant parts of the media ecosystem right now in the Podcast world. Joe Rogan is really without competition and, and the whole bond he has with his audience is they trust him and they like him. And if he, you know, drawing a line in the sand seems like a good start. But I think you were the one of the first to wave your arms around what Tara's talking about. Ghislaine Maxwell is a monster and a predator in the telling of the victims. And if Joe Rogan keeps his bond with his audience, it seems to turn around whether or not he can be, be flipped and turn some of these people into truth tellers, which is what Charlie Kirk's telling seems to be paving the way for your thoughts on Trump's statement today and his standing in the sort of MAGA influencer world.
- [23:49]
Claire McCaskill
Well, the flashing red light here is the way they're trying to rehabilitate a child convicted, a lying convicted child sex predator. And that's what this woman is. And you know, I'm going to beg, Tara, you need to book yourself on Joe Rogan with one of the victims. And you need to say on that and any other place in the right wing media sphere you can, that it was Maxwell who took the panties off a child so Epstein and she could have their prurient entrance satisfied by children. And the idea that he thinks politically he can get away with pardoning this woman or commuting her sentence tells you how far down this slippery slope we've actually gone.
- [24:38]
Mark Epstein
A couple weeks or a week before that flight, I was talking to Jeffrey and he told me that he was talking to Donald and he asked Donald, how come you sleep with so many married women? And Donald's answer was, because it's so wrong now amongst guys. It was a funny line. And then when we were on the plane a week or two later, Jeffrey asked Donald the same question. I know he did that for my benefit so that I could hear Donald say it. And Jeffrey asked him, how come you sleep with so many married women? And Donald said, because it's so wrong. Now, it's a funny line, but the answer is not the poignant part of the story here. The question is the poignant part because for Jeffrey to ask him that question, number one, he would have to know that Donald slept with a lot of married women. That's not the kind of question question you ask a casual acquaintance.
- [25:29]
Sam Stein
So we played that because that was the brother of Jeffrey Epstein, Mark Epstein on cnn talking about the nature of Trump's friendship with Jeffrey Epstein and the substance of what they talked about. We're back with Tara, Sam and Claire, Tara, let me come back to you with two questions for you. One, I played the tape of Trump accusing Bill Clinton of going to Epstein Island 28 times. It's a claim that Bill Clinton denies. But two, what is your sense of what the truth is about the duration of Donald Trump's relationship with Jeffrey Epstein? Until when do you think they were in communication or do we know.
- [26:18]
Annie Farmer
Earliest? I think they may have broke off communication was 2004. They may have continued communication after that. But Trump was pretty angry about this real estate war. He was pissed about having to spend more money on a piece of property and he chewed out Jeffrey Epstein about it. And then Epstein ended up going to prison for being a pedophile. Not that great to be associated with that. Now, Glenn Maxwell, she still was in high society. I mean, she was still cavorting with everyone, you know, high, high flying figures until, until Jeffrey was really arrested in 2019. So I could see her, her, him still staying in touch with her. By the way, they go really far back, President Trump and Glenn Maxwell. They go back to when Glenn's father, Robert Maxwell, owned the New York Daily News and she was working for her father selling corporate gifts and she was trying to sell them as like a 18, 19, 20 year old to Donald Trump. Like they have a very long friendship. This goes very deep. So I think to suggest that this is just some sort of a casual thing is another, another thing I wanted to point out. And also the point about Epstein that Mark made about how they had this sort of friendship, this locker room talk, these guys, it or not even locker room talk, depraved talk, really. In this case, you know, Epstein and Trump were so close that when Epstein's mom or aunt wanted to go to Atlantic City, Trump would, would give them a room at the, at his casinos down there and take care of them. Like that's how close they were.
- [27:54]
Sam Stein
Let me come back and follow up on Maxwell. When you heard Trump, Trump say to Jonathan Swan during his first presidency that he wished her well. And Jonathan Swan pushed, I think, was it Axios at the time said she's a convicted pedophile. I mean, what do you kind of gave him a chance to say? Is that really what you mean? And he said, yeah, yeah, I wish her well. I wish her well. Are you surprised that there wasn't more digging into the nature of that intimacy and attachment that Trump, Trump felt to her?
- [28:26]
Annie Farmer
I don't, I don't, I don't. But I like the more I learned about Glenn and her history and her father and, and even just the strange connections how, you know, Trump bought his boat from Adnan Khashoggi, who was, that was the Princess Trump, and that, that was a connection. Khashoggi and Glenn Maxwell's father, Robert Maxwell, were business associates. I mean, I think they've all known each other for a very long time. They all used to hang out on Robert Maxwell's boat when it was parked in the upper on the Hudson River. And, you know, President Trump loves the press. The guy owned the New York Daily News. That is a person that President Trump was going to spend a lot of time with. And Robert Maxwell saw Glenn as an extension of himself. He was, in a way that Trump feels about Ivanka, where he's very proud of her and how beautiful she is. That was how Robert felt about, about Glenn. And he would bring her the events like in the, in the role that a wife would normally take, like accompanying her, her and he, and he was proud of Glenn Maxwell. And he introduced, he introduced her to all of his powerful friends, including Donald Trump.
- [29:37]
Tara Palmeri
She's known Trump since she was young.
- [29:38]
Annie Farmer
She's known him since she was in college.
- [29:41]
Sam Stein
This new sound from Donald Trump that'll drive at least another round of questions. What is he talking about? Tara Palmeri, your reporting is so valuable and so appreciated. Thank you so much. And I agree with what Claire said. You should be a guest on Joe Rogan's podcast and share your knowledge with his listeners. I think they'd like it.
- [30:01]
Tara Palmeri
That was another episode of the Tara Palmieri Show. I want to thank my producer, Eric Abenate, and I want to thank the Tara Palmeri show team, Sarah Carney, Abby Baker and Luke Radle. I also want to thank the da Vinci of thumbnails, that is our own Adam Stewart. Don't even try to poach him. See you again soon.