B (6:08)

Tara Palmary, how are you? Great to see you.

A (6:11)

It's great to see you too, Terry. I'm. I'm tired. I'm, um. You know, it's been a really big week, but an important week. But, you know, it's. It's a little bit of a comedown right now. I don't know if you ever were, like, if you ever did like a school play or something like that where you feel like it's. You hit that or maybe even like election night coverage when you're preparing, preparing, preparing, and then the next day it's over and you're like, wait, the campaign's over now it's over? Do you know what I mean? And that's sort of how I feel.

B (6:46)

It was a huge week with an accomplishment a long, long time coming that most people predicted never would come. And you played an important role in that, putting your shoulder to the wheel in so many ways. So on behalf of a lot of people, thank you for that work, for real. But, you know, is it over? And I guess the basic question is there's no way that Donald Trump would sign that bill if he even remotely thought that any of anything bad about him was going to come out ever. So they're going to deep six his chapters or whatever. I don't know. What do you think?

A (7:23)

Yeah, I mean, it will be strategic redactions, I would say. And, and according to Bloomberg, when they did a freedom of information request back in August, they were already working on this and that they got back some files that had already had President Trump's name redacted. This is Jason. Yeah, Jason Leopold, I think his name was at. Bloomberg wrote about this. He said three sources inside of the FBI told them that there's a team that was working on redaction, so they've been working on this already.

B (7:58)

Yeah. So think of that. And that does raise a question. I covered the Justice Department a little bit over the years. I was basically at either end of Pennsylvania Avenue, either at the White House or the Supreme Court, but spent some time at the Justice Department as well. And since covering a lot of trials in federal courts, I always told people, state courts, you never know what you're going to get. There's a lot of them. They're funded differently, they're treated differently, they're treated different politically. Some of them are rank partisan, some not so much. You never know what you're going to get. Local police. All the rest of it you get in federal court. It's the pros, it's the big leagues. And you could sense that behind that are people who work for the Justice Department who were hired because they had that ability, that skill set, that dedication, that intelligence, and their work product generally reflected that. Well, there's been a huge change. Obviously, Trump wants his Justice Department, a maga, Justice Department. And so can they get away with this is what I'm asking. I mean, aren't there people there who are gonna say, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute. You're just protecting Donald Trump? The American people wanted the whole Epstein files out. Why are all of the mentions that might. That show Trump's relationship with Epstein, whatever that may be, why are you cutting them out? There's nobody in that building. There's nobody in the department to say that anymore.

A (9:30)

No, I mean, it comes from the top down. So, you know, they are just following orders. And also, I think they're probably terrified since everyone's taking, like, polygraph tests, and it's. It's not a place for dissent. I think if you were going to do something radical or even stand up to your boss in any way, you'd be loomered, as they say, or you would be like, I think you'd have to fear for your. You'd have to leave the country. I would think they might think you were like a dissident if you tried that. I mean, the, like, what we're seeing out of this administration is pretty intense, especially when it comes to this topic. So I think it would take a lot of guts to do that. And I hope that there are whistleblowers out there and there are people, because that's how we found out about Glenn Maxwell's commutation request. We wouldn't have known about that without a whistleblower. And so I like, I hope that this is like the Panama Papers and one day we see the whole thing. But I just, I don't know, it seems hard.

B (10:31)

Well, that may have been the whistleblower and the commutation, you'll know better than I. But would that have come from the U.S. attorney's office where she is incarcerated? Maybe. Or would that have come from Main Justice? In other words, somebody might have seen the paperwork down there. Because Main justice does sound like a, it's been cleared out of any possible person who's gonna stand up to Trump, and B, there are spies everywhere. Everywhere, as you say.

A (10:55)

Yeah, I'm gonna look that up, actually. Ghislaine Maxwell, Commutation. I don't, I, I don't know. It just, they just said it just comes from a whistleblower. They don't say who it is. They're protecting their source as, as they would. Right, right.

B (11:15)

I mean, it could be somebody on her team, somebody in a court, you know, whatever it. Who, who knows? But then the question becomes, okay, so they're going to get away with it, probably. Right. They're going to get away with shielding the President of the United States from whatever involvement he had, his relationship with this, this vile, dark human being who had these connections across, you know, better than I, obviously, the, the power players across continents and just incredibly creepily creepy, especially with Donald Trump. So they're going to deep six all the Trump stuff. Maybe. But, you know, can they shred it? You know, could they really? Doesn't it live forever? Isn't destruction of that kind of evidence of crime itself? I mean, it's going to be there.

A (11:58)

Yeah, yeah. I mean, it would be. Could they, could they shred it? I guess they could. We would never know, right? Like, well, we don't know.

B (12:06)

I mean, there are lawyers in this case who know what's there right. Outside who know about what's there. There are judges, my, my hunches who've looked at least at some of it. And the problem is that as I've said before in a story like this, eventually everything comes out. Thomas Jefferson didn't want us to know about his half black babies. We do. I mean, ultimately it all come. Nixon didn't want anyone to know that he cursed behind the scenes and that he was trying to hail off the Watergate burglars. It. It eventually comes out. That's the nature of these things. Very hard to keep a secret now. Will it come out?

A (12:47)

I do think, though, the parts about what the Justice Department did, like, the deals around the. Around the sweetheart deal, that they may be even closer in terms of keeping that information at bay. Like, I feel like that's something that I really hope we learn about is, like, why did they give him this sweetheart deal? Has he been an informant all along? Because he had helped the FBI in the past on that financial Towers Ponzi scheme. He spoke to prosecutors and then again, Bear Stearns, and, like, was he just seen as such a valuable informant that they didn't think he was worth prosecuting? Like, all of that, I would love to know. And I just can't imagine that the DOJ is going to, like, write that down somewhere or, you know, or it's going to be on some piece of paper that says Epstein was evil in connecting the CIA with the X person or Y person. I also have. I also think that because, you know, we had someone in the British monarchy involved, I do think that it may have had something to do with the. The, like, the great relationship, you know, that maybe that there was. That was part of the handshake, was that we didn't want to embarrass the Crown because of the relationship with Jeffrey Epstein that had something to do with why he had a sweetheart deal and everything went away.

B (14:14)

And now it's worse right now. It's worse for the Crown now that they covered up or that the Department of Justice is here suggesting may have helped that, or our intelligence services or the government of the United States helping. That makes it all worse. But. So let's look ahead now. Let's shift to the political scene connected to Epstein. Has he quelled the MAGA uprising? Is the nature of the relationship between him and the movement changed? Has the nature of the leadership of the movement as Marjorie Taylor Greene and Thomas Massie emerge as people who were actually champions of what MAGA wanted and the President was not? Does it change the political dynamic?

A (14:57)

I think it does, but I think everyone is looking to see if President Trump can primary him. Primary them, because, like, that's where all this political power has rested, is the fact that he had this incredible ability to choose primary candidates and to remove, you know, politicians that he seemed. He deemed to be disloyal to Liz Cheney. You know, you had Kinzinger not even run again for reelection. Like, so many people just aware that this is the power that Donald Trump has at the base. But if Massie and Marjorie Taylor Greene are even more in touch with the base than he is, then it proves that he's lost his Midas touch, you could say. And I do think he comes at a very politically vulnerable time for him, because if anybody knows anything about, you know, politics, if you have a bad economy, like, that is a. And that is an anvil on your presidency, like, that is dead weight, and it's really hard to recover from that. Also, he has spent so much time, and I don't think Marjorie Taylor Greene is wrong when she says this on Foreign affairs, that he's really, like, lost the plot on what he. He promised to his supporters, which was fixing the bidenomic economy, which he, you know, said blown. I'm going to, you know, lower costs on day one. We're going to end inflation. All of these things that he promised. It's just not happening. And even with Foreign affairs, he's struggling. And I don't believe people actually go and vote based on that. And here he is spending, like, almost every day of the week, every other day, at least with a foreign leader, you know, traveling all over the place. Like, what is Mohammed bin Salman doing inside of the White House? Who, by the way, props to our former colleague Mary Bruce. Total pro. I, you know, I just can't believe, like, how much how he doesn't see that he's completely disconnected. And I do think that's the problem with the presidency. And you would know that as someone who's covered it for a long time as well. Like, you fall into this bubble and you forget about the people who elected you because you're just not on the trail. And he is in legacy mode. He's desperate for this Nobel Peace Prize. Maybe this, you know, MBS relationship is obviously related to his family. Like, I do think he wants peace in the Middle east partially because of the real estate that they're building there, too. Like, they know it's bad for business if they're like, bombs are being, you know, are just being torpedoed all over the place. And so, yeah, this is, this is a strategic. Not just for his legacy, his family's influence. And he's just, he's not working on the things that matter. And, like, a lot of Americans are about to see their health insurance go up, their premiums go up substantially, probably including myself, actually, in a month. And. And what is he doing? Like, he's hanging out with MBS, and if you look at the numbers, like, 76% are unhappy with how he's handling the economy. He was reelected because he was seen as a better steward of the economy than Joe Biden. He has forgotten his mandate.

B (18:19)

Yes. I think that's all very astute. And in particular, you know, the psychological read on Trump there is his main drive, as far as I can see, because he is a very fragile man deep down inside. His father must have been terrible. You know, he has this need for self glorification. He must be glorified. Not just praised, not just attaboyed, you know, not just have some success. He must be glorified to the heavens or else he collapses, I think, in rage and anxiety because he has such an infirm ego. I saw that in his eyes, frankly, that there's something wrong with him in there, and yet he has turned it. And this is, in some ways is a weird credit to the force of his personality. He has this ferocious ability to defend that insecurity and impose his will on the world. So he gets glorified. And I actually think in the foreign policy sphere, that's partly what it is. Yes. Every president finds it's much easier to get things done when you don't have the Congress and other people in your way. He doesn't really have the Congress in his way or the courts or anything. He can do whatever he wants.

A (19:28)

No, he owns the Congress. He even jokes that he's the president and the speaker. He should be doing a lot right now.

B (19:33)

That's true. That's fair. That's a good point. But presidents do have greater freedom of movement when it comes to foreign affairs. But I think it's. I actually think it's. He got it. He got to be king of America, at least in his own mind and heart. And he gets, and he's now glorified in America. He wants to be king of the world. He wants to be king of the world. And that he'll find that doesn't satisfy that vast black hole in the middle of him. But he's going for it. The Nobel Prize, all of the. I'm gonna rescue Milei. I'm gonna punish this people over here. Pretty soon he's gonna say, I don't want that sports team to win over there. I mean, he's micromanaging the world so that he can show he's in charge. He's the big guy. They all bend their knee to me. He needs that psychologically. And you're right, the consequences are that he wasn't elected twice. He wasn't elected to be king of anything. He was elected to fix problems. And right now, immigration remains his highest issue. People see that. They didn't like the basically open borders or the poorest borders. Joe Biden and he's got on top of that. But they don't like the wanton cruelty of it. And he slipped a little on that. But that's still his highest issue. But you're right, the economy, I mean, that's a huge problem for him. And he can't talk people out of it. Ah, inflation is down. Inflation was at 20%. I heard his Council of Economic Advisors, Kevin Hassett claimed that inflation had reached 20% under Biden. No, it hadn't. No, it hadn't. This is like. But they'll say anything. The country was dead. Biden was the worst. In order to get him glorified. But people know what things cost. They know.

A (21:16)

Yeah, easy. And also, like, where are the job reports? Which, by the way, we're not getting for two months. Like, literally, economic economists are like, we don't know how to plan if we don't get the job reports. We don't know. We don't know the temperature of a sick economy right now.

B (21:31)

Well, we did get one. We did get one today, a couple hours ago. But they're acknowledging that the data is incomplete. Nevertheless, it shows, you know, the major. The American job machine kind of doesn't care who's president unless things are really going bad. It did okay. Did better than expected.

A (21:47)

Okay, well, that's good.

B (21:48)

119.

A (21:49)

I clearly didn't read through all my morning news yet before this, but, Terry, I do wanna ask you about this Russia, Ukraine deal. What do you think when you hear we've hit a major, you know, we hit a big mark. This is a huge moment for us. And then you also read that Ukraine hasn't agreed to any of the conditions in which Russia takes pass, takes parts of Ukraine, doesn't even control right now, in exchange for a security relationship with the US And Europe.

B (22:21)

Yeah, I'm disgusted by it, frankly. I spent a fair amount of time in Ukraine in 2014 and then in 2022 when the war began. And there's no question that the policy of the United States under Donald Trump is to abandon Ukraine. It has been from the beginning. He kind of goes and fits and starts because he doesn't want. His people are telling him, you can't let Moscow have a total victory there. And he is providing some serious weapons. But he wants out. It's something he can't fix, can't claim credit for. And he's willing to give away plenty of other people's land to Vladimir Putin. And at this point, exhausted by these years of war, outmanned 10 to 1, outspent, abandoned by the major leader of the free world, supposedly. And Zelensky falling in popularity with a big corruption scandal right under his nose. The people are exhausted. They need peace and they are willing to give up things. But they know, every single one of them knows this is just gonna be another breather before the Kremlin wants to take another bite out of Ukraine or accomplish Putin's long term goal of taking it over altogether. The fact that the United States will not be there at least for the next three and a half years, if not longer, to stop that is sad. But Europe is stepping up slowly but surely. They are ramping up their arms manufacturing. Germany is ramping up its arms manufacturers. May not be such a great idea given the track record there, but somebody's got to. And they're an industrial power. And it does seem like Europe understands that this is the Russian bear, which for hundreds of years under the czars, under the communists, under Putin, they just ripped chunks out of Europe, right? Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, parts of Finland, parts of Sweden at one point, parts of Poland, parts of Bulgaria. It has an appetite for Europe, the Russian leadership always has. And so we can get out, but it will remain first a terrible situation for ordinary Ukrainians. It'll be just what Putin wants. A broken country that nobody wants to invest in. A weak country that can be picked on and bullied and maybe conquered. And it's not the end. And all of that is because. Because Trump, he doesn't want to get in it and he's abandoned them. And they'll pay the price. That's the sad truth of it. Monday Sidekick the AI agent that knows you and your business, thinks ahead and takes action task at anything seriously. Monday Sidekick AI you'll love to use.

A (25:03)

Start a free trial today on Monday.com gambling I agree with you. I do think they could have used some help too though, when they were invaded in Crimea during the Obama administration.

B (25:18)

I was, yeah, I was there. It was ridiculous. They walked in with their Turks, they.

A (25:22)

Used those anti tank missiles back then, I think, I think the world abandoned them and it just escalated and like, this is the price. It only. You're totally right. This is, this is, this is not the end. And I'm kind of, you know, you keep hearing about these peace deals and Trump has brokered this huge deal and like, I just feel like journalists just like chew it up and like spit it out exactly how it is, how they want them to, and they haven't really picked over it. Right. I mean, I was reading Playbook the other day and I was just like. So you're just. You're just accepting this as what, that this is a huge breakthrough? It just doesn't feel very critical because he does this all the time. I mean, think about the ceasefire in Israel. Has it even really lasted? Like, what did these deals just feel like? They're slap dash, Steve Witkoff drops in, leaves hands out, victory, and then it's a new news cycle that they can just exploit.

B (26:17)

Yeah, that's a great point. Yeah, that's. I was just thinking, you know, I'd like to see more reporting. Maybe I'm missing it when you can hear the voices of the Ukrainian people right after these years of war. And I would like to hear what they want. Obviously, they want an end of the war, what they're willing to pay for, what their concerns are. I'd like to visit some of the cemeteries I did in the first year of the war, which now must be much, much bigger. The loss is incalculable. I mean, the loss of whole cities are in ruins and obviously hundreds of thousands have been killed. And so this is. We aren't hearing that voice. Zelensky is declining in popularity. Is natural. They're losing the war. His government has been proved to be corrupt several times. They'll always, I think, have a place in their heart for him, for how he stood up when the Americans said, get out of there, and he wouldn't. And I do think that that was admirable, but I'd like to hear that. And then these other piece deals, he's just campaigning for the Nobel Peace Prize, but as you point out, at the expense of focusing on the real problems Americans want solved. And that brings me to the question I really wanted to ask you today, which is, last day we were going to talk. You were at the headquarters of Zoran Mandani the night you won the election.

A (27:43)

I know, I'm sorry, that didn't work. I tried to do a live, actually, earlier that I'd committed to, and it was so loud that you couldn't even hear me inside. So it was just like. It was just such a bump in party. It would have, like, we would have just been screaming into the void.

B (27:59)

Yeah, yeah. And I remembered being at play at those things, and abc, of course, they had the equipment. They'd give you the two IFBs, and you turn it up all the way so that your ears were bleeding, but at least you could hear the person talking to you. But tell me, just what was that like? And what's your conclusion about this moment in the History of New York City and our country.

A (28:21)

Okay, Terry, here's my feeling about it always has been the rent is too damn high, in the words is a great Jimmy McMillan. But seriously, like, this is a reaction to the fact that I really think it's an affordability campaign. I don't think it's an anti Zionist campaign or anti Israel. I think. I mean, he has said some very inflammatory things about Jews, and that's concerning. But, like, ultimately, I don't think that's why people voted for him. I think they voted for him because of the state of the economy. And it particularly impacts New York, which is probably one of the most expensive cities in the world, if not the most expensive city in the world. And he was saying, I'll freeze the rent. And people are like, wait, what? You're actually talking to me, people. I'll make buses free. I will offer universal childcare. I mean, that's a BFD for a city that really you don't get much from. You give a lot to this city, but you don't get a lot much from it. I will say as someone in the area, and, you know, he's young, he's energetic. Everybody that's gone through New York City politics, I covered City hall for the New York Post, just feels a little washed up. You know, the real estate lobby has such a strong grip on them. You don't see a lot of idea, like, ideas. He's just like this fresh up and comer. Feels like Obama because he's just come out of nowhere and you're like, who is this kid with great oratory skills and a weird name, but, like, doesn't care, like, it doesn't hold him back. He's not apologetic about it, you know, and that is very refreshing. And while I know a lot of people are worried about the S word, socialism, it does feel like it's losing impact among my generation of millennials and Gen Z, because I think, like, we didn't grow up during the Cold War where people were practicing, like, jumping underneath their desks because the bombs are coming down. You know what I mean? Like, this isn't a fear that our generation has in the same way that older generations have. And I think because we've seen the results of capitalism and like this, the excesses of capitalism, and we haven't really gotten and people who are, you know, MAGA and hoping that President Trump would be fighting for them in their, you know, this is populism. I mean, what. He has a populist message. It just has an S in front of it. You know what I mean? And we'll see what he actually can do. And this is the problem with a lot of these populist campaigns you run and make a lot of promises. Can you do any of this stuff? I don't know. But sometimes people just want to hear that you're thinking what they're thinking and that you're willing to take down the man. Like, I do believe there is an anti institution movement to F the man movement and he's leading it. And I'm sorry, but like, he was certainly set up by like four years of Eric Adams and his corruption. And then you have a man who is the literal poster boy for entitlement besides Prince. Andrew Prince, other Andrew Cuomo, you know what I mean? Coming through. Also having his own sex scandal, not apologizing for it, running a, you know, a Rose Garden campaign, not shaking hands, like, really feeling like he is moved from White Plains to his daughter's apartment on the, you know, in the, in midtown makes him somehow a New Yorker. And like, everyone's supposed to bow down, vote for you so that your legacy isn't disgraced former Governor Andrew Cuomo or your obituary isn't the first few, like, no, everybody's on to you, bro. Like, at least apologize. He has no humility at humility at all. So. So yes, the, like this, the world collided in a way, and it was like a perfect storm that created Zoran Mamdani from the ashes of fallen, corrupt politicians. Okay. And maybe he's not exactly who would have ever won. He would have never won it any other time, I think, in the history of New York, except at this moment. And so let's see what happens. I wish him the best for the city. I know there are a lot of people, especially in the Democratic establishment, that are pulling their hair out right now. But you know what? They need a shake up too. At 25% approval rating, like, they could use somebody who's making them feel a little uncomfortable and pushing them into a corner. So, you know, I would be worried if I was someone like Hakeem Jeffries, who reluctantly endorsed him. I think that they have lost the plot and they don't understand the grassroots. And Kathy Hoeple clearly understands the power of that grassroots, that she's up for reelection and she endorsed him and was awkwardly on stage with Bernie Zoran and aoc. But she knows that it's, it's those progressives in New York that helped her over the line with Lee Zeldin in a very close race about four years ago. And she's got another one coming up against Elise Stefanik, who I would argue is an even better candidate than Lee Zeldin. So she knows that she needs him. And I do think because of that, he can sort of exploit that relationship and get some funds and some wins from her. Because the most important thing, based on my coverage of Delasio and Andrew Cuomo, who hated each other, is that you have to have a good relationship with the governor and to get money to get, you know, to get the budget to do the big progressive initiatives that you wanted to do. And I think that's why de Blasio's administration was a failure. One last point before I go off on my rant on, on New York City. Zoran has a big problem with the police department and people maybe don't understand that. But like that can the NYPD can tanker your, your, your mayor ship. Like they almost have veto power. They are so strong. And he has said some pretty, you know, terrible things about them. He's apologized when on Fox and did it he was for defund the police, as we know from Mayor de Blasio. Like they turned their backs on him at a funeral for a fallen officer. And so I don't know how he's going to repair that relationship. I do think keeping Jessica, I'm blanking on her name. Is it Tish? Yeah, she's the, the police commissioner. In her position, that is a huge deal. They'll appreciate that. But I don't know that it's going far enough. So I think that's what he needs to work on. And now he's meeting with Trump, which I'm so curious to hear what you think about that, Terry.

B (34:58)

Well, look, that was a great survey of the waterfront and I, and I think you're absolutely spot on across the board. First, defund the police may be the dumbest political statement ever. You know, now maybe it's just because I'm a middle aged white guy in the, in the suburbs, but police power can be abused. But in general, people like the idea of public safety. And I know they weren't supposed to be sacrificing public safety, but the way you say it, defund the police is a dumb, dumb thing. Now that said, Mamdani has that wonderful energy, right. And I think that's what people are responding to. And you're exactly right. Populism. At some point, this country won't be take it over the past. Think over the past. Since the financial crisis, this country has amassed a Gargantuan amount of wealth. Mountains and mountains and mountains. Trillions of dollars. Not just in inflated stock prices, but in actual factual making things and doing things that make a gargantuan amount of money. It is an amount of money that exceeds what most other countries make in a hundred years. We've done it in 20.

A (36:03)

We've put on a toilet bowl, a golden toilet bo. Like, if that is not a sign of the times, of the excess wealth by our wealth, of our 1%, I don't know what else it is.

B (36:14)

Right.

A (36:15)

I have to look that up. How much they actually paid for that.

B (36:17)

Well, and also the point is, like the last time that.

A (36:22)

$12 million. $12 million. The last time that shitter people. That is where we're at now.

B (36:30)

We've had this wealth inequality, which is intolerable and have all boats risen. No, the American people know the basic equation of the last 30, 40 years, not just the last 20 years, which is that far too much money went to far too few people in far too few zip codes for far too long, and it hollowed out the middle of the country and it busted up cities. And people want it turned around and they don't care what the label is. Look, you can still scare people with the label of socialism. What they care is what works. We aren't an ideological people. We're a pragmatic people. And right now, people are feeling like, do something. Do something to make it more affordable and do something to pull down the vast, vast 50 families or whatever it is, own half the wealth of the country. It's just insane. That is an intolerable situation. It's why we got Trump. It's why we got Mamdani. And now, as you say, they meet in the Oval Office tomorrow. I mean, I hope he knows it's an ambush. Trump will have some stunt charts. He'll bring in convicts. Who knows what I mean, he'll have a stunt. But Mamdani, and this is also why I kind of think he'll be okay with the police. He is naturally politically skilled.

A (37:47)

Oh, yeah, he.

B (37:49)

He will definitely do it.

A (37:51)

He is there is. Okay, so a really good politician. I always say this is a seducer at heart. They know how to seduce the voter, and that is what they do. And they know how to seduce their partners in lawmaking, which requires a lot of salesmanship. And, you know, you see that from John Edwards. I don't mean. I remember when I was covering him in his own trial, he was seducing the jurors, like, what is going on here. People, they are seducers. Every president you've met, I'm sure that I've met, you get that, like, oh, they make you feel special as a seducer does. And that's why many of them have problems with women as well. And so I do think, like, even Trump, I like, he, like, he has the funnel. Like, when you meet him, I remember I was, like, 22 years old when I first met him, and he was, like, zeroing in on you in a way that makes you, like, it's hard to see around him. He makes this universe of, like, gold, orange around you. So they all have this. Obama has it. Like, anyone who is good. George Bush, like, anyone who's made it to that level. Yeah, anyone who's made it to that level has a level of seduction inside of them. Mamdani, from everything I have heard, has that too. And he's already, like, started and met with, like, rebny, which is, like, one of the big real estate groups. And, you know, they're all. They're hopeful. I mean, they. They all think that they can work with him. Ultimately, I think that Eric Adams can appoint someone to that real estate board that would make it really hard for him to do the rent stabilization for at least three years into his. So we'll see how vindictive Eric Adams is feeling right now about that. There are just so many ways to bureaucratically, like, plug things up for him. So, yeah, I just think he's, like. I think he's, like, actually a little smoother slicker than Trump just because he's younger and he's like. He's just got, like, that thing where I could actually. I actually think Trump can't really play a fast one as much on this guy. Although Mamdani is sort of. He is vulnerable to Trump and his. And his ability to withhold funds for the city. And he's also. He's gotta deal with the fact that Trump can very much, like, send troops into the city reserves and he can perform, like, ice aids that are really disruptive. And Mamdani is not gonna wanna be seen as the one who I think won't be. Want to. Want to be seen as the one who exacerbated the situation or provoked it in any way. So he's gotta walk a tightrope. And, like, as we know, President Trump loves flattery. Does Mamdani want to be the guy on camera being, like, flattering him so it could get real weird? I mean, is he gonna just do, like, the Gretchen Whitmer where he's like.

B (40:38)

Well, he can. As you point out, he's the mayor of New York City, and he does need. He needs this petty, vindictive, deeply troubled human being who's our president, to let the money flow, as it should under law, to New York City, when appropriate. So he'll have to. He has a difficult problem. But Trump, you know, game recognizes game. And Donald Trump is a dominant political figure of my lifetime. He is for whatever brokenness he's. A lot of politicians have this. Bill Clinton. Right. They make up for what is wrong inside with something that connects, something which enables them to get power and to wield power. And Trump certainly has that, and he recognizes that in others. I think he recognizes the skill set of Mamdani. I also just think the enormous contrast in vigor and age is going to be startling and bad for Donald Trump. Okay. He won't like that. But. So I think he's got. He's got his own set of problems with Mamdani, but he's got the upper hand. He's already called him a commie. I wouldn't be surprised if he called it to his face. But I think.

A (41:45)

I wonder if Mamdani will be, like, fascist.

B (41:48)

Well, then we're off to the races. But then New York goes broke. Right? Because then he does.

A (41:52)

Yeah. So he's gonna have to. He's gonna have to bite his tongue.

B (41:56)

Or find a way to, you know, just having had whatever was 45 minutes across from him, you can move him around. You can move him around on. On in. In an interview, in a conversation, just by being respectful but determined to get to what you want to talk about. And I actually think that Mamdani is certainly well skilled enough to do that. He's so young, though. I mean, it'll be fascinating.

A (42:22)

Oh, he's got J.D. vance behind you playing podcast host and, like, can jump in at any time and just, like, disrupt the situation with a third party. He's got cards stacked against him, can pull it off. He's. He's lightning. I mean, he could go from being. I mean, I already think he's rising up as one of the biggest names in the Democratic Party. No question.

B (42:43)

He's the next generation.

A (42:44)

Right. If he is able to pull this off and shows he has better, like, skill, I guess, political skills in dealing with Trump and Schumer or Hakeem Jeffries, like, watch yourself. This kid is going to go far. Yep. Even aoc, she's like, she was a hot thing. And I don't know if he can do that.

B (43:05)

Yeah, yeah. I mean, you know, are the American people right? Well, look, he's at the beginning of a long career that I probably won't live to see the end of. And so, you know, he's. No question about it. Well, I mean, whatever. I'm just dramatizing that. He's what, he's 34?

A (43:22)

33. 33 years old.

B (43:24)

That's nuts. He kept 50 years in public.

A (43:26)

I double check that one. He was 33 for most of the campaign.

B (43:30)

If he goes, if he wants to go to the Senate. Right. He'll, he'll, he'll, he'll be there 50 years, whatever.

A (43:39)

@ any rate, we're going to keep you alive, Terry. We need you. Chris says, I agree.

B (43:44)

Well, I will say this. America is a tomorrow country. Trump is trying to turn it into a yesterday country. And all the boomers who support him, and he does have, you know, a lot of support in that cohort, you know, they. We aren't gonna live forever. But more important, we can't stop America from America ing. Which is what I thought election night. That was my line. I thought. I looked at Mamdani's victory, at Spanberger's victory, at Mikey Sherrill's victory, at the victories in Mississippi, in California, across the board. And I said, huh? America is still America, Ames. People will in their millions go to their voting places and change the country one person at a time for pragmatic reasons, not necessarily for ideological reasons. And they generally steer the ship of state pretty well. Now, this is the second Trump term, so, you know, I mean, they don't bat a thousand, by my lights, but I think the election of Mamdani and that dynamic is going to be fascinating to watch. So we'll all be on that tomorrow.

A (44:51)

Love the good disruptor. I gotta say, Terry, it's in my heart, you know, Absolutely. I love disruption. I don't know why. In everything, it's because it's changed.

B (45:04)

It's change. It's the way of the world. You know, you can't stop. You can't stand in front of the tide and say, don't roll in, because it's gonna roll in. And Mamdani's part of the tide of the next America. And it's not going to be the boomers America, and it's not going to Trump's. Trump's a boomer. It's not going to be that America. It's not going to be MAGA's America. MAGA will contribute to it. We are changed as a Country. But how are, you know.

A (45:29)

Yeah, they're, they're, they're ripping each other apart right now, which we should do another show on because I think we're running out of time soon. Like, we should do a story. I mean, we should do a show on how they are tearing each other apart over the infestation of gripers.

B (45:44)

That's a great story. Let's go do some reporting on it and get back on it.

A (45:47)

Yeah, would love to. Yeah. I did something on with Richard Hanina. He's a former white nationalist.

B (45:55)

He's a very interesting man, I think.

A (45:57)

Yeah, we did an interview back on my podcast on Substack a few weeks ago, if you guys want to check it out. Because he sort of talks about it, about what it was like to be a white nationalist. He's no longer one. But what drives them, where this is coming from, like, why, how this infestation started and like, how it's going to impact 2028 and it already is, obviously for 2026. So, like, you, you want their votes, you let them into the tent. Like, now you have to deal with the cancer that has grown.

B (46:27)

And, you know, he reached out to me early on when I just joined Substack and I had been reading him on Twitter, following his journey and admiring it, right. Thinking, well, I love people who can change, change for the better. And by my lights. And he has. And so I said, hey, let's do something. And then, you know, life got to become life. But. But it's a great idea. I'm going to steal it from you. I'm going to talk to him.

A (46:51)

Go for it. Tell him you got it from me. I will. Yeah. No, I think it's good. I mean, we need to know what the mentality is behind these people. I. I think you have to talk to the monsters sometimes and, like, understand what I mean. I wouldn't want to have Nick Fuentes on my show because he has no self awareness. But, you know, just a little brief.

B (47:12)

Story to end with. I did do a story last year on Andrew Tate. I went to Romania, I went to his house. He was kind of spying on us. He tailed us. He had a waiter in a restaurant we were at took our picture and he posted and he said, look at these idiots from abc. He wouldn't talk to us, of course, but Patrick Greville, my colleague, did manage to corner him in court one day and he got a couple of answers out of him. But we talked to some of his victims and all the rest of it, and one of the things I did as part of the exploration of the manosphere was go to a manosphere convention in Miami. And it was just outside of Miami. And it was like, how to be a man by these, you know, guys who are making money off of telling sad people how to. How to be a man. I remember thinking, I've never been around so many insecure people in my life.

A (48:02)

That's sort of what I gathered. Cause I said that to. I said that to Richard, too. I'm like, you're not really white. You're like a Jordanian Palestinian. Like, how could you be into the white nationalist movement? I was like, Nick Fuentes, not white, really. I mean, he's part Mexican. Like, looks white. They all kind of come off as white.

B (48:20)

They're kicked out as a Klan, right?

A (48:22)

Yeah. They're not like, white nationalists in the sense of, like, wasp, you know, evangelical Protestant. So many of them. Stephen Miller, a Jew. Like, why do you guys not get that? And even with Charlie Kirk, like, you know, I interviewed him. Like, I've known him for a while, obviously, just having covered politics in general. But, like, I remember when I was about to interview him, one of his guys sent me, like, all these passages about how, like, women over 30 are expired and from his book to kind of, like, arouse. Like, incite some sort of anger or arouse me in some way that would make me angry. When we go, like, I was just like, gross. But then I'm like, I hear from one of my friends recently that he married a woman who was over 30 when he was in his 20s. And, like, he's all. He proposes that women shouldn't work and they should be home, like, being homemakers and creating a family. And yet this. His wife, Erica Kirk, actually has a pretty successful jewelry company. And it's like, they don't even practice the things that they preach to all these people. Like, it's so hypocritical. I mean, even if you want to think, look. Look at, like, you know, Donald Trump and the fact that he has to import all of his wives to do the job that no one else wants to, who then bring their family over through chain migration.

B (49:37)

That's. That's funny. That's funny. I'll say that, too. All right, Tara, it's been great, as always. Yes, absolutely. We'll circle back. All right.

A (49:47)

All right, thanks.

B (49:47)

And thank you, everybody. Bye.

A (49:51)

Bye. That was another episode of the Tara Palmeri Show. Thanks so much for tuning in. If you like this show, please subscribe, rate it, share it with all your friends. If you like my reporting, go to tarapaulmary.com and sign up for my newsletter, the Red Letter, where you can support my independent journalism by becoming a paid subscriber. And you can get my exclusive reporting straight to your inbox because I believe investigative reporting is so important. Important. And that is what I love to do and spend time on. So I hope you will support me in this endeavor. I also want to thank my producer, Eric Abenate, Abby Baker, who does my socials and research, and Adam Stewart on the thumbnails. I'll be back again this week.