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The Tara Palmeri Show
Will Trump Release Ghislaine Maxwell? The Family Connection No One’s Talking About
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A
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B
Welcome back to Tara Palmieri Show. Well, do I have some breaking news for you. Glenn Maxwell, Jeffrey Epstein's right hand woman, a registered sex offender, is preparing a commutation application to be reviewed by the Trump administration. That's according to a new document that made its way to the House Judiciary Committee Democrats from a whistleblower. Yes, a whistleblower took that risk of getting that document over so that it could be made public. I have always believed that whistleblowers will be how we know the full extent of Epstein's crimes and what exactly is in the files because I do not see the government self regulating itself, even if the Department of Justice is compelled to do so. Now we should be all concerned because President Trump just pardoned 80 people overnight, all in connection to an attempt to try to subvert the results of the 2020 election that included people like Rudy Giuliani. So will Glenn Maxwell be next? They have a really long history. And in this episode, I map it out. It goes all the way back to when she was in her 20s working for her very influential father, Robert Maxwell, who was seen at the time to be a rival to Rupert Murdoch, you know, the guy who own Fox News and the New York Post and a number of other very powerful media properties. She's not some random woman asking for a pardon. She's a longtime friend. They used to hang out together. There are pictures of them together at Mar a Lago. And Trump was friends with her father. He was even on their yacht called the Lady Glenn that was parked inside of the Hudson. So I go into all of my reporting about their long ties, what President Trump has said about Glenn, how he's spoken about pretty, I would say lovingly for about a sex offender. And we can talk about all that and more in this episode with Charlie Sykes, a brilliant journalist. But I try to explain why we should all be concerned that President Trump might actually commute Glenn Maxwell. That means she would be free. I know wild times. And as if I need to remind everyone, because I think at this point, we can all positively say the shutdown is impacting all of our lives. We are into day 41. That's as of Monday when I'm recording this podcast. And like I said last week, there would be movement after the election. It looks like some of the Senate Democrats have started making deals on the side. Now, while Chuck Schumer voted no, he's kind of giving a wink, wink, nod, nod to some of these Senate Democrats who've decided, you know what, I'm going to make a deal and try to reopen the government. That's before they have been able to get their demands of, you know, extending the subsidies for Obamacare, which are overwhelmingly popular, by the way, with both sides, including Republicans. So I think Republicans know they have to deal with this, but they don't want to be seen as the ones who are caving in. So I think it's pretty notable that you're seeing Democrats trying to reopen the government. House Democrats could be called again as soon as this week. I was speaking to a senior Democratic congressman who is based out of California, and he told me that everyone is freaking out and scrambling, trying to get back to D.C. because, get this, as much as they like to turn the lights back on to government, you could say they can't actually get there because of all of the flight delays. Yeah, that's right. On Sunday alone, there were 2700 flight cancellations. 10,000 flights were delayed yesterday. And so these lawmakers, they want to get to the Capitol, many of them, to reopen the government, but they're going to have to drive some of them cross country. It's pretty wild. And that's why they will get as many as 36 hours to get to the Capitol. So we may have to wait a few days to see the government reopened. And of course, when they do, they will be able to swear in Adelita Grijalva, who will be the deciding vote to release the Epstein files, at least in the House. And then it will go on to the Senate and then to President Trump's desk, which will he will have to decide to do, whether to sign that bill or to veto it. But obviously, it will put Republicans in a tough spot every time they have to vote on it in both the House and the Senate. So, yeah, we are in some wild times right now where the people who could actually open the government again are literally waiting on tarmacs. And in terminals trying to actually get to Washington to make this happen. I can't explain it. So much dysfunction and but I am going to keep reporting on all of it along the way and keep you updated with all the latest. You can sign up for my latest reporting, my exclusives, all of it. My newsletter, the Red Letter straight to your inbox by going to Tara Palmeri.com that's T A R A P A L M E-R I.com and it's a way to support my independent journalism. But now let's get into the show with Charlie Sykes where we talk about all the latest news and what it means, big picture, what does Glenn's request for a commutation mean for all of us? Take a listen here. Welcome everyone to the Red Letter Meads to the Contrary with Charlie Sykes. And we've got a lot to talk about on this Monday morning. Charlie, thanks for hopping on the line the last minute. I was like, hey, we should talk about this. This seems really crazy to me but the story today is it's from a whistleblower, actually. And it's something that I have been saying for a really long time about the Epstein story as much as I hope that when, you know, Democratic Congresswoman Adelita Grijalva is finally sworn in, if the government opens at some point, you know, they'll vote to compel the Department of Justice to release the Epstein files. But it'll have to go through the Senate and then it will have to. So that means that they will have to pass the bill and then it will ultimately end up on President Trump's desk. And will he actually pass it? Question mark Doubtful. Also, even if he does, you know, what are we going to see? Is it going to be all redacted? We can't really trust as we know the Department of Homeland Security to regulate itself self police, they've never really been that good at that. So I believe that the true stories of Jeffrey Epstein will come out through the leaks as we've seen through the emails, the estate having to hand over various evidence thanks to the House Oversight Committee that has been subpoenaing them, the survivors who know the story themselves and whistleblowers. Whistleblowers will be the ones and they are the brave people who risk everything really to make sure that stories are told. And so today there is a story about a whistleblower that went to House Judiciary chair, not chair, he's in the minority. Yeah. Ranking member Jamie Raskin and said that he's seen documentation that shows that Ghislaine Maxwell is putting together a request for commutation. And as we all know, Glenn Maxwell was the right hand woman to Jeffrey Epstein. Without her, none of the crimes he could have committed would have been possible. So this is a really big deal that she feels like she's in position right now after being moved to a very cushy prison, which we can talk about, to request this next step. And as we know, overnight, President Trump pardoned 90 people. Right. Was that the number, the final number?
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C
Ninety people? Well, he's tossing them out like Skittles. Yeah. I mean, this is part of his. He's figured out how we can use this for fear and favor. You know, I'm really glad you're bringing this up today because, you know, we have all this flood of finger pointing, you know, going back and forth about the Senate vote. But, you know, one of the things that I think that we need to keep focused on is that this is also going to force the House of Representatives back into session, which means you will have the 218 votes for that discharge petition. So the Epstein files is coming back. And the reason why we're hearing these stories today is because if the government does reopen, there's pretty much no way that Republicans are going to avoid at least having an up or down vote on releasing those files. And the fact that Ghislaine Maxwell is now back in play, you know, with the commutation and pardon power, this is, as we've been saying for last six months, you know, this is, this has not gone away. And it's going to be one of the biggest, if not the biggest story of all.
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B
Yep. And just to be factually correct, he announced pardons for nearly every 80 prominent allies who backed his efforts to subvert the 2020 election. That includes Rudy Giuliani, Mark Meadows, Sidney Powell, Boris Epstein, John Eastman, and Kenneth Chesbrough. So this is, you know, he linked the pardons with no MAGA left behind. That was his statement. So, you know, still, I believe President Biden holds the record for commutations at this point, but it's only what year one that we're into right now with President Trump. And you're right, the story will go back to the Epstein files once the members are back in session, and they'll have to take that really, really difficult vote. And I wonder if senators who voted against the release that was included in the Chuck Schumer bill, if they will switch their votes now.
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C
Well, it depends how much public pressure they get, how much focus there is on all of this, you know, whether or not having promised that they were going to have full transparency and release the Epstein files, whether Republicans are going to line up behind this, cover up. I mean, this is why, again, look, we keep saying this is going to be a test for the Democrats. It's going to be a test for Democrats and for Republicans. But the messaging on this is absolutely horrible for the Republicans. This is going to be a very, very difficult vote for them to take. You know, the safest vote is to vote to release them, hoping that maybe Donald Trump will cover it up. I don't know what the safe vote is at this particular time, but the very notion that we would be even having a conversation about Donald Trump muting and, or pardoning Ghislaine Maxwell at this point, I mean, somehow unthinkable that would have been. And Donald Trump is feeling, you know, is, has, has sort of figured out what he can do with a pardon power, the almost unlimited power that he has. No maggot left behind. And so he's gone from one outrage to another and he's rewriting the history of January 6th. But I don't know about you, I think that if he commutes the sentence of one of the most notorious sex traffickers, you know, in the world, you know, within, within a few months of Prince Andrew losing his title, the outrage is going to be really considerable. I think that this feels like this will be different than all the other pardons. But I would not go out on a limb and predict that Donald Trump will do what he's going to do here. He's basically gotten kind of an FU. He's all out of Fs to give. He's going to pardon everybody that he thinks is going to help him or is going to help him cover up or is going to help him make money. If he thinks that he can use her to distract attention from the Epstein files, he will, he will do that. But I don't know about you, but I think this one, this one feels like a house of dynamite, house of political dynamite for Donald Trump.
- [12:47]
B
I think you might be right. I thought though, when they moved her to a lower max security prison, that might be, you know, that might be explosive. That did happen in August. Okay. So she sat with a two day long interview with Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanche. And in that meeting she cleared President Trump of any wrongdoing. She claimed she, quote, never ever seen any man doing something inappropriate with a woman of any age. And so she, she completely, she, and she praised Trump, you know, and she Said she never saw him in any inappropriate setting. And so she was moved to a better, better prison in a camp, a prison camp where Elizabeth Holmes is. We all know her from the Theranos scandal and other white collar criminals, even though she's a sex. And you know, people do not want sex offenders near their neighborhoods. This prison is near a neighborhood. And not just that, but according to Raskin and reports, she's being treated better than the other inmates there. You know, Raskin said that she's having her meals customized and prepared by federal prison camp staff. She's vegan, apparently, and they're giving her that option that others don't have. Additionally, Maxwell's guests could bring computers, and the warden helped organize visits for Maxwell that include snacks and refreshments for her guests. Okay. When she had a visitor, they shut down the prison for her, literally put everyone in lockdown so that she could meet someone in the chapel. There was a nearby shooting near the prison, and they locked her down to protect her. And work completely disregarded the other prisoners. Prisoners were told that if they speak to the press because some of them spoke to the Wall Street Journal about Galen and her conditions and how they're better than others, that they will be moved from this cushy camp to another, you know, another prison with a worse reputation. So, you know, it's, it's really telling. I think this is that I thought maybe the next step is an ankle bracelet, but I don't know. Is the outrage large enough? Like, are people? Have they moved on a. I had.
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C
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- [15:28]
C
No, no, I, I, I don't think they've moved on from the story. I think it's been kind of a holding your breath to see what the next shoe to drop has been. And I think that the commutation when she walks out of that prison, that would be the red line. No, you're right. Every one of the steps you just described should have generated massive blowback. But of course, we're just learning some of those details today. And this is part of the problem. Look, you and I deal with this all the time. The news cycle is so jammed, you know, the Field is so flooded all the time.
- [16:02]
B
By design.
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C
Well, yes and yes, by design. And with this coming out, with these files coming out, you know, that we're going to have the distraction machines working at full speed. But I still think that any sort of a commutation or pardon is a red line. Now, the other question is whether or not her clearing President Trump has any credibility whatsoever. I mean, I suppose on Newsmax or One America now that still exists, you know, they would regard that as, okay, well, you know, case closed. But it sounds to me as if she's just in complete denial. No sense of, you know, that she is, you know, showing no remorse whatsoever. And the clid pro quo is so obvious. The strings are just out there for everyone to see whether or not Trump gets the benefit from it that, you know, I mean, it's a cost benefit, you know, the, the outrage of the commutation versus the benefit of her testimony. I just wonder what the benefit of her testimony is or whether he even gives a shit anymore about all of this.
- [17:08]
B
Does he not care? Or is he afraid that she could talk and she might if she feels like she's not getting what she wants, there's nothing holding her back from saying, I felt like I was under pressure at that time. I was hoping for a pardon. Here's what I really saw. They've known each other for a very, very long time. By the way, I just want to make a note that she did try to appeal her case to the Supreme Court, saying that she was covered under the non prosecution agreement, that sweetheart deal under Alex Acosta. They decided not to take up her case, most likely because they knew it would have been politically poisonous as well and just, you know, a mess. So I just want to go over some of the things that President Trump has said about Ghislaine Maxwell. I wish her well. I've met her numerous times over the years, especially since I lived in Palm beach, but I wish her well, whatever it is, a sex offender. Okay. I'd wish a lot of people well. On another occasion, he says, good luck. Let them prove somebody was guilty. This was before. Yeah, she was, you know. Yeah. He's very nonchalant, casual about her. For some context. I think it's worth going into how long they've known each other for and how deep their guys are. So, as a lot of you. Yeah, as a lot of you know, I did a podcast with Sony called Power the Maxwells, and it was specifically about her and her family, where she came from. I sometimes say Glenn Maxwell at one Time was like a Elizabeth Murdoch at that level. Her father was a media mogul. He, his main rival, his rival at the time was Rupert Murdoch. They were on par with each other. He owned various properties all over the world, including the New York Daily News, the Mirror in the uk, MTV Europe, Macmillan Press. He owned Pergamon, a number of really prestigious academic properties. And, you know, he was a real mover and shaker in, not just in media. And, you know, President Trump has always had an obsession with media and he and Robert Maxwell were friends. Trump went on the boat, the yacht that was parked in the Hudson called the Lady Ghislaine that Robert named after his favorite daughter, Ghislaine Maxwell. And so, and by the way, I know I say Ghislaine, a lot of people say Ghislaine. It's Ghislaine, if you want to say it the French way, because she's actually, her mother's French and she was born in France. But point is, is that I even remember from my reporting that I spoke to his former secretary, Robert Maxwell's former secretary, and she overheard a conversation between Ghislaine and, and her father and she was like, daddy, can I sell some of our corporate gifts to Donald Trump? And he was like, why would Donald Trump want that? Get your bum out of your ass. Or something along those lines. And, you know, she was interested in him at the time. Like, she's younger than him, she's 63, she's 20 years younger than him. Close to 20 years younger than him. But they were very much in the same circles. They're, you know, they were friends. I mean, there are pictures of him. Ivanka, Ivana, Sorry, not Ivana, Melania. There are him, Melania, Galen, Jeffrey. They were friends. And I think, you know, we know the friendship with Epstein ended over a real estate transaction. They were bidding on the same piece of property. But we, you know, I don't think people quite understand that Glenn was also a friend of Jeffrey, of Donald Trump. And it goes way back to her father, who owned a newspaper. And having worked at the New York Post, like I remember, President Trump would attend parties when I worked at Page Six. He showed up for a going away party for Richard Johnson. You know, he would call the paper all the time. We called him the rental quote. Like he had a very symbiotic relationship with the tabloids. And to own a tabloid like the New York Daily News, especially at that time, meant that you had a lot of influence in America and that you would be someone that was courted by President Trump. So I think, like, we also have to remember, like, this isn't just some random woman who's a sex offender that he passed, that he saw in passing in Palm Beach. Like, this is someone whose father he knew very well, regarded very highly, and who he saw, you know, in a. In a similar light. I think actually they treat. They treated their daughter similar, similarly. Like the way that Robert admired Glen for being beautiful and brought, you know, and had her on his arm at events and praise her for her beauty. It's very similar to what you see with President Trump. So that's all to say that she's just not some random person. She's known him for a very long time.
- [22:07]
C
I think this context is really, really important. And I really have learned a lot from your reporting on all of this to realize that, that she was not just Jeffrey Epstein's girlfriend or somebody who was in the circle. She was really, in many ways, kind of media royalty. Not kind of media royalty. Media royalty. And in Donald Trump's world, she would be as prominent as anyone that he would encounter. And so people need to remember back in the day how powerful the Maxwells were in this world. They really are comparable to Murdoch. So in Donald Trump's mind, this is somebody who is, you know, part of the elite that he wanted to be part of as well. But again, you know, that it is important if he were to commute her. Not only is she one of the most notorious sex traffickers in history, but she's also, once again, one of these privileged elite, the privileged elites that Donald Trump has such an affinity for. Yeah, And I think it's just remember that in terms of the justice system working differently for the rich, the famous, the maga, the Trump aligned, she would be a perfect example of all of that, because it also explains why she would have the access to the kinds of people that she had. Because this is one of the extraordinary things about the story that you talked about. All of the people that Epstein and Maxwell were able to draw into this circle of presidents and princes and, you know, and moguls, you know, who in the world has the ability to attract those kinds of people together, to get them to do the kinds of things that they were doing, to associate with them. So if you don't understand the star power that she had, the clout that she had, that aura of media royalty, then you can't really fully understand the. That sort of. That the magnetism of Epstein world, can you?
- [24:09]
B
No. And there's also something that when I spoke to people the scandal almost made her even more interesting because the way her father died, there were questions about whether he was murdered or whether he killed himself. And this was around the time when he stole the pensions from the, from Mirror, the Mirror Group. And you know, he was thought to be Mossad. So like, not only is she this sort of beguiling British woman who, you know, ran away to the US after daddy was drowning in scandal and has and has this insane Rolodex, there was something kind of like exciting to people that I was told, like tantalizing about the fact that like, who is she? She's, you know, that almost made it even more interesting, the fact that she not only came from this very prominent family, went to Oxford where she, that Prince Andrew had this amazing. She was a socialite. I mean, she was written about in the, the newspapers in the UK and in the society section. Who she was dating, people wanted to know. I mean, she was royalty. They were billionaires. He flew around in a, in a, in a helicopter. You know, Jesse Ferguson, who is a creator of Succession. Another reason why we did power the Maxwells on top of the interest in Glenn and the reason we focused on her father was because a lot of people think that it was just based on the Murdochs, the success in show on hbo. But really, in some ways it's even more about Robert because Robert has a real rags to riches story that Murdoch didn't have. And so, and that there are actually a lot more similarities between Robert Maxwell and Logan Roy than there are even between Rupert and Logan Roy. But they were, you know, they fought over properties. They were in bidding wars all the time. And yeah, she's, she helped a man who was a college dropout spend become friends with princes, the heads of banks, finance, you know, academics, everyone. I mean, they had the who's who list in their black book. Who wasn't in there? Honestly? The Pope. Who was the Pope?
- [26:20]
C
Oh, no, no, I'm really sorry to hear that. No, I mean, this is like you were first describing it. You know, this is, this is like a miniseries because, you know, not only did Robert Maxwell had this, you know, tremendous rise, but he also had this spectacular fall. You know, most of your viewers probably, you know, have forgotten about, you know, his end, you know, the kind, the massive scandal, you know, leading, you know, that led up to his death. Is it why we believe that he committed suicide? I mean, is there a consensus on this?
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B
No, the belief is that he was working for Mossad and that he was deeply compromised because he was stealing from the pension funds. So they had to kill him because he was too compromised to continue working for them. He was buried in the Mount of Olives, which is where they bury kings and princes in Israel. So no, he was very much seen. And I rarely meet people even who work in like there's a man, John Cipher, he's got a great podcast, by the way. He's a former spy and he was like, yes, like he worked in that region. He's like, we very much believe that Robert Maxwell was a spy.
- [27:22]
C
And yeah, but I mean, this also is why this story feels so different than all the other news stories we talk about, because the layers of drama are so considerable that it's the kind of thing that, you know, basically we're talking about a binge worthy saga that's also in the news.
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B
Right, I know. And yeah. And we haven't even talked about the crime, the sex crimes, which is the worst part about it.
- [27:48]
C
Well, of course it is. And this is something that again, we've talked about this before, but given the role that this played in the MAGA imagination, the sex crimes, the elite, the pedophiles, the sex trafficking, all of this, if Donald Trump thinks this is going to be a 1 news cycle story, he would be miscalculated. I think that he's made a number of miscalculations lately that make me do think that he's acting very, very impulsively on a number of different things. The optics and a lot of things have been terrible. But I keep coming back to how I think this is fundamentally different. I think the central question you've been asking is have we moved on? Where is the outrage? Right. I don't think we've moved on and I think the outrage would be tremendous because this is, every time you and I talk about this, you realize the scope and the depth of the crimes, the tragedy of the victims. When you think about the political fallout for someone who came into office pledging over and over again that we were going to get to the bottom of all of this, but is clearly involved in some way. I discount a lot of the rumors, but I mean, let's keep coming back to this is all about Donald Trump and the fcm. That's why, that's why we're all talking about this at this point. Do we have any indication of what it is in these files that they are so desperate not to release? I mean, let's imagine that the House passes the bill, let's imagine the Senate passes the bill. It goes to Donald Trump. Trump's desk, you know, is he. You know, the political consequences of vetoing it, I think are considerable. So do we have a. Have we learned anything since you and I have talked last or in the last six months that indicates why this is so nuclear? I mean, in the back of my mind, I'm thinking about the contrast between Great Britain, where you've seen the American ambassador, the US Ambassador who was fired, Prince Andrew was stripped of his title as prince.
- [30:03]
B
And it's getting worse. It's getting worse over there.
- [30:06]
C
Yeah, over there. But over here, no prominent American has really been held accountable. So what.
- [30:13]
B
What is just a few financiers got stepped down from their jobs? I mean, or they were kicked up off the boards, but they're fine. They're gonna have billions of dollars for the rest of their lives. Banks paid, you know, but it's. It's all like funny money to them, basically. You know, what's in the files? I mean, if we. I know from the stories of the survivors that the. The names of the men, they were trafficked, who were in the files, and they were very powerful men.
- [30:44]
C
What is it that Trump would be willing to spend so much time.
- [30:48]
D
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- [31:15]
B
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- [31:18]
C
Why doesn't Yeetus think that? I mean, and I know I've asked you this question over and over again, but I keep coming back to it. What is in there that he is so anxious to do? Is it about him? Is it about. Have people told him that there are just too many people, that it would crash the economy, as you have suggested? Is it because of foreign intelligence? Because clearly this is unusual. The fact that we have shut down the House of Representatives of the United States of America now for several months, mainly because they do not want to take a vote on these Epstein spots. This is not normal, not usual.
- [31:59]
B
Yeah, no, I think there's a. There might. Those very. Those things may be a part of it. I know that it would cause a lot of distrust with the government. Right? I mean, like, it would show how the DOJ operated. It would explain Perhaps why he got the sweetheart deal. It would expose more powerful people. And I don't know the reaction from. I don't know if you know this, but Andrew Lowney had a book that entitled About Prince Andrew. He's a biographer, a British biographer, and it's a bestseller in the uk. But in the book, he alleged that Jeffrey Epstein was dating Melania Trump before he introduced Melania to Jeffrey, to Trump. And it was never. It was never published in the US because of that. And they tried to get him to scrub that from the book. And I wonder if it. If it's about her and he doesn't want her to be exposed in the, in the files because of the way. And I think Melania sued Hunter Biden for suggesting that she somehow involved in the Epstein files. Like, I don't know. It's just a gut feeling that. Just a gut feeling that he might. That there might be something that extends to her, and that's why he's being so protective. Whereas I think he thinks he's Teflon, but he might not be sure about his wife.
- [33:28]
C
And so let's go back to Ghislaine. Ghislaine, if she was. If she got her sentence muted, what do you think she would do? Would she go out and do a series of interviews? Would she go off to one of the billionaire islands that she. I mean, is she still an extremely rich woman? I mean, if she walks out, what. What does she walk out to?
- [33:50]
B
No, I don't think so. Because they. Like she was relying on Epstein. She. She sued the estate, or, you know, she sued the estate, and she said that Epstein promised to always cover her for the rest of her life financially. So I can't imagine, you know, you know, what would happen. So I don't think she has money. I mean, her family is paying for her lawyers. I get the feeling if she's asking them for money, she's also married. A lot of people don't know that about her. She is married to a. A man named Scott Borgeson. He is in the. He. He has a weird Maxwell connection. Sorry, people are calling me on the phone while we're doing this live, so I apologize. Yeah, so she's married to a man who has a data shipping company in the Arctic, which is actually in a weird way connected to Glenn Maxwell, to Lisa Murkowski. He's known Lisa Murkowski for a very long time, actually. They've sat on foreign relations panels together advocating for the Arctic and for expanding its reach. The US has reached in the Arctic so that we will cover more zones and we'll have greater property there. This is obviously helps to, you know, this obviously helps maritime business in Alaska. But, you know, I actually thought it was interesting. I felt, felt that, that Lisa should have mentioned this because she spoke on multiple panels with them. They have a friend in common, Alice Rogoff, who is a big donor to Lisa Murkowski and was the Alaska Dispatch editor and who created the Arctic. I think it's called the, sorry, the Arctic Circle conference where Glenn, Lisa and Scott have spoken. Scott and Lisa have been on panels multiple times together. They know each other very well. And I kind of felt like you probably should have made that known before you were the deciding vote not to release the Epstein files, which just so happened to be on the day Charlie Kirk's death. Now, I believe they are estranged at this point because he is in, because she's in prison. But, like, he's a wealthy guy. She was living in his house, hiding out from, from the feds at the time. You know, it's, it's something to, it's something to consider. I, I don't think she's going to come out a wealthy woman. Do I think she'll figure out where to find money? I think that's what Galen Maxwell does best.
- [36:43]
C
I mean, well, it's gonna be in.
- [36:44]
B
More son with three kids, and she met him at the Arctic Circle event that was thrown by Lisa Murkowski's donor. So, you know, she got. She knows how to get into circles with wealth, wealthy people to find money. Now she's a sex offender, although Jeffrey Epstein was a sex offender and everyone let him back in. So I don't know. It's hard to say.
- [37:02]
C
You know your point at the beginning of our conversation, though, because I, I was wondering about the, the commutation because it would, I think, be. Be radioactive. Do you think that she is in some ways blackmailing the administration by saying, okay? I mean, because I said before I didn't think that her exoneration of Trump carried much water, but if she were to turn on him and say, you know, if I, if I don't get something, I'm going to, you know, say something negative. Now, of course, they can make her life incredibly miserable as a federal prisoner, so kind of a balance of terror there isn't. So do you think that she is. Is holding that over, or do you think that's just the paranoia of the administration that we do not treat her very, very nicely? She could, she could turn. Go south on this.
- [37:52]
B
Yeah. I think that's, I think that's very much.
- [37:55]
C
That makes more sense.
- [37:56]
B
Probably makes sense. I mean, you want to keep her sweet, right? Last thing she needs is she knows where all the bodies are buried. I'm sure in this story it's not. And I also wonder, is he doing it for someone else, too, or does Trump overestimate his own political power and think he can get through any scandal, including this one?
- [38:16]
C
Well, see, I think that's an interesting point because I think that if you look back at the last month, there's a certain hubris going on there where they are really sort of, you know, high on, you know, we can get away with anything. You know, I can publish an AI video of myself shitting on Americans. I can tear down the, the east wing of, of the, of the White House. I can throw these massive Gatsby parties the same day we're cutting off SNAP benefits. I mean, he really does act as if somehow there, there are no laws of political gravity. And I mean, the fact that we're having this conversation today that he pardoned, you know, another, what, 80 of his, of his big lie henchmen. And by the way, why do you think he waited until today to do that? You know, I, my first reaction to seeing Rudy Giuliani was, huh, why did he wait so long? Why did he not throw in those pardons with all the January 6th rioters? I mean, people who beat and tased cops got pardoned before Christina, Bob, you know, what's with that? Would you have any sense of why?
- [39:24]
B
Actually, maybe he didn't see them as politically expedient or because he knew that he would always have them anyway. Where were they gonna go? And he worried more about his followers and not having unrest. It's very random. I think also they probably, maybe he's being strategic in terms of, you know, breaking news cycles when he feels like, oh, you know, I remember from speaking to a White House aide that he liked every morning to feel like he set the agenda, right?
- [39:51]
C
And he often does.
- [39:53]
B
And, and I think that people are really angry about the shutdown and the flight delays, and this is a great way to set the agenda for the week in the morning.
- [40:04]
C
Well, I mean, it did feel over the weekend that he was doing the throwing the spaghetti up against the wall thing, you know, talking about, you know, I mean, what was one story we got was that he wanted the Commander Stadium, NFL Stadium, named after him. Then the next day he's promising $2,000 checks to everybody because of the tariff rebates. And then he rolls out the 50 year mortgages and every one of these things felt a little half baked. Like they were just sort of like brain bubbles that he was throwing out because there had been five minutes that had gone by when people weren't talking about him. So, you know, it's one thing that the zone has been flooded, but it seems flooded lately with just a lot of flotsam and jetsam and weird stuff. And that's why I was wondering about all of this. Because you think he would save some of it. If he is going to commute, you know, Delaine Maxwell's sentence, you would think that he would want to bury it in a load of a lot of stuff. My guess is that, you know, that, you know, if we go to war with Venezuela or Nigeria, like what's the list now? Countries might go to war with so many of them. Mexico, Nigeria, Venezuela. We might invade Greenland. Who else we met at Canada. Yeah, Canada. That, that, that would be the, that would be the day that he would be dropping in one of these pardons or commutations when you would bury it that deep. I just don't think you can bury this one.
- [41:29]
B
I think he would bury. I think he would pardon her on the same day as Diddy and it would just blur the lines and people would go crazy. No, yeah. He seems, every time you mention Glenn, he mentions Diddy.
- [41:42]
C
Interesting.
- [41:43]
B
Yeah, he's like. A lot of people are asking for pardons, right?
- [41:48]
C
I mean any. He, you know, he pardoned that crypto guy. Crypto billionaire. The other, the other day, you know, was involved. Me really sleazy guy, involved a lot of things. He's pardoning guys who were involved in. That New York cop who was involved in, you know, doing, you know, shaking down, you know, Chinese dissidents and things like that. It is if he's like flexing his muscles. But they just, they feel, it feels very randomized at this point. That what makes this different than everything else, and I'm sorry to keep repeating myself, is that his own base has. Has marinated in this story for so long.
- [42:25]
B
Yeah.
- [42:26]
C
For a lot of the people who, you know, are listening to us, you know, they might not have spent as much time in MAGA media, but you know, you, you know how big this was for them. You know, how many times they address this and how recently. I mean, it was this calendar year that you had, you know, the attorney general saying we're going to release this and then going through the kabuki dance of everything. No, they're the Ones who brought this up. And of course, no conversation about this is complete without remembering that Elon Musk was the guy, when he got pissed off at Donald Trump, who put out the big nuclear bomb tweet, remember?
- [43:07]
B
I mean, it was in the Epstein files.
- [43:10]
C
And that seemed to be the thing that hit the switch on everything. You know, Elon Musk, the world's richest man, when they had the breakup, which we all knew was going to be ugly, but that was the ugliest moment.
- [43:20]
B
Well, he was in the Epstein files, too, technically. I mean, he was supposed to go to the island. He was on the schedule to possibly go to the island. Tbd.
- [43:30]
C
So is there anything else that goes on the island? Is there any other reason to go on the island? Is it like a good fishing there or is it like. I mean, what. I mean, you go to the island for what?
- [43:39]
B
No, nothing good happens on that island.
- [43:41]
C
Yeah, no, no, it's not. You don't go there for the mai tais. You don't go there for the beach. That's the thing.
- [43:45]
B
Like. Yeah. You couldn't step on that plane and not see that there was something weird going on with all of the flight attendants, the way they were dressed, how young they were. It's. He was just. Yeah. No, you can't. Everybody knew what Epstein's deal was.
- [44:01]
C
Yeah. And everybody knew. And what's interesting about the politics of this, and we almost never even mention him, is that if this thing blows up. Yeah. It's gonna. It's gonna splatter a lot of people in. In the Trump circle. But also, Democrats seem pretty willing to throw Bill Clinton under the bus here, don't they?
- [44:18]
B
Yeah, I think they wanna get rid of all the, you know, they would like to. The younger ones, at least. Which is why I think the Biden administration didn't do much about it, because they knew how much it would fire. It would not just on Clinton, but on a lot of Biden's friends in the Senate. You know, as we know, Virginia Giuffre mentioned Bill Richardson in her. Yeah. In her files, she also mentioned Senator Mitchell from Maine as being two men that she was trafficked to. So, yeah, those are, you know, Biden's old friends. And the truth is that a lot of the men that were on Epstein's list were Democrats. I mean, Trump was a Democrat, too, at the time. But, yeah, it's. It's a messy one. It's really bad story. But the younger ones, I think, like the Ro Khannas, they would probably. They don't mind, you know, clearing the decks, getting rid of the old warts and trying to, they're trying to do that anyway. So that's why I really, they're pushing so hard.
- [45:22]
C
You know, it'll be a turn, a turn the page moment. But I'm really glad that you're keeping the attention on all of this because.
- [45:28]
B
Yeah.
- [45:29]
C
You know, because it is so easy to be distracted, to go off. And so that's why I was when you called and said, did you want to talk about something? Yeah, because otherwise we're going to all be, you know, spinning our wheels, talking about the government shutdown and the Senate vote and everything and then the story of the next, the next news cycle. But I do think that it is really important that people realize that however you feel about that Senate vote, it guarantees there's going to be 218 members of the House of Representatives who are going to vote for that discharge petition on the Epstein files. So that vote will take place. That's a nightmare vote for Republicans. But also is going to bring it back. The fact we're also now hearing about this Ghislaine Maxwell and then the story you just told a little while ago about the way she's being treated in prison, I hope that gets a lot of attention because this is something like, why is this woman singled out for this? Being waited on hand and foot type of thing when she's supposed to be a sex offender in prison? Is this the way we want to treat sex offenders in prison? I think that it's important that I think people talk about this and understand exactly what's going on. Because I think part of the great myth that we've had is that somehow we're in this populist moment where Donald Trump was the voice of the people. And this is just one of many, many stories where we're reminded that, no, that there's one set of rules for certain people, the little people, and there's another set of rules for the rich, the famous, the powerful, the well connected. Even if you've sex trapped total, that's.
- [47:20]
B
A, that's a great way to end it. Honestly, Charlie, I feel like you summed it up. This is a. It's a very easy story to understand the haves and the have nots and how they are treated differently. Thank you, everyone, for joining the show. We'll keep you posted on everything that we learn and as always, sign up for to the Contrary with Charlie Sykes. He's a brilliant journalist, very happy that he's now a friend and the Red Letter. It's how you keep us going so that we can keep delivering content to you every day. Thanks so much and have a wonderful day. That was another episode of the Tara Palmieri Show. Thanks so much for tuning in. If you like this show, you can rate it, subscribe, share it with all your friends. Leave a comment I would really appreciate that. If you love my reporting, please go to tarapaulmary.com that's T A R-A P A L M E R I.com just one eye and sign up for my newsletter, the Red Letter. That's how you can get my exclusive reporting straight to your inbox. And if you become a page paid subscriber, you can support my independent journalism. I want to thank my producer, Eric Abenate. I want to thank Abby Baker who does my social media and research, and Adam Stewart who does my graphics. See you again tomorrow.