The Team House Episode 147: CIA Senior Intelligence Service Officer | Doug Wise (Throwback)

Date: February 12, 2026
Hosts: Jack Murphy & David Park
Guest: Douglas Wise, former CIA Senior Intelligence Service Officer

Overview

This episode features a wide-ranging, candid conversation with Douglas "Doug" Wise, a retired CIA Senior Intelligence Service (SIS) officer with over 50 years of public service. Wise shares his extraordinary career journey, spanning from growing up on an Amish farm to serving as a senior field officer in the CIA, with key roles in the U.S. Army, Counterterrorism Center, and as Chief of Station in high-stakes warzones like Iraq, Afghanistan, and the Balkans. The discussion offers deep insights into the evolution of U.S. intelligence and special operations, interagency dynamics, the psychological and professional tolls of service, and lessons learned over decades of conflict and transformation.

The tone is unvarnished, self-deprecating, and rich with anecdote and wisdom aimed at demystifying the inner workings of intelligence and special operations for both practitioners and the public. Wise gives special attention to the evolution of the CIA, cross-agency partnerships, leadership, and the human side of espionage.

Major Discussion Points & Insights

1. Doug Wise's Origin Story & the Personal Cost of Service

• Early Years: Grew up on an Amish farm in Pennsylvania. His father, a WWII veteran, eventually shifted the family toward academics, leading to Doug’s appointment to West Point by John Glenn.
• Military Foundations: Entered the Army in 1972—a time of post-Vietnam disarray, racial and disciplinary turmoil, and limited public support for the military.
• On Leadership Development:
  “My first 90 days as acting company commander for Charlie Company were the most formative, challenge-laden, leadership development experience ever.” (21:22)
• Reflection on Sacrifice:
  Wise recounts dark moments, like losing eight colleagues at CIA’s Afghanistan outpost in 2009, but focuses on how tough losses prompted critical lessons and reforms in agency safety.

"I never had a bad day. Had better days, but never a bad day… the worst was December 2009 when we lost eight colleagues in Afghanistan. But I looked for the positive—that their sacrifice made us better, and they didn’t die in vain." — Doug Wise (02:55)

2. Entering CIA & the Evolution of Counterterrorism at Langley

• Transition to CIA: Joined in 1987 after a surprise army assignment, beginning as a military detailee.
• Early Counterterrorism Center (CTC) Days:
  The CTC disrupted long-standing geographic silos at CIA, allowing new cross-regional approaches to the problem of transnational terrorism.

"The boundaries between those divisions bureaucratically were impermeable... someone had to have the guts and wisdom to create the Counterterrorism Center as terrorism became a global threat." — Wise (39:00)

• CTC’s Unique Value Proposition:
  Gave CIA visibility into cable traffic from all global divisions, allowing “find, fix, finish” operations against terrorists.
• Initial Stigma: CTC postings were once seen as “career risk,” not the glamorous track they later became post-9/11. Wise describes being handed operational “experiments” because “no one wanted to waste a good CIA officer” in what were then considered backwater assignments.
• Notable Colleagues: Worked alongside figures such as Rick Prado, Mike Scheuer, and Phil Mudd during CTC’s formative years.

3. Interagency Dynamics: CIA, Military & FBI Partnerships

• Early Distrust:
  Wise describes mutual suspicion between CIA and military, and within the Agency towards military officers, but emphasizes how necessity and shared missions in hostile theaters led to deep partnerships.

"Collaboration and cooperation between the two communities was not only mission success but life-saving… by working together, we exceeded the arithmetic sum of our capabilities." — Wise (57:16)

• FBI Relationship:
  In counterterrorism operations, mission roles were clear—CIA found and fixed terrorists, the FBI finished cases for prosecution. Friction existed primarily where authorities and cultures overlapped.

4. The Balkans as a Precursor to Post-9/11 Operations

[~65:47–80:22]

• Wise argues the seeds for later CIA-military excellence in Afghanistan and Iraq were sown in Bosnia and the Balkans, where the U.S. took on humanitarian and security roles without a direct national interest—a “projection of American core values.”

"America in the Balkans was us at our best… we didn’t have to do it; we chose to because of our core values." — Wise (67:19)

• Learning to Integrate:
  U.S. intelligence and SOF learned hard lessons about collaboration, respect, and shared sacrifice.

5. Afghanistan and Iraq: From Reaction to Innovation

• Afghanistan Deployment Post-9/11:
  Wise was rapidly redeployed, highlighting the CIA’s agility—and chaos—in mounting the initial response. Describes building base infrastructure on the fly, leveraging indigenous partners, and adapting traditional tradecraft to high-risk environments.

"We were learning to do this on the fly… creating capability as we went." — Wise (91:36)

• Iraq War:
  Candidly criticizes U.S. decision to invade as a strategic blunder, but remains proud, even idealistic, about the sacrifice and innovation seen among Agency and military personnel.
• CIA’s Changing Role:
  Became more tactical, focused on “force protection” and actionable intelligence to save lives—while still juggling strategic collection and oversight of complex, diverse missions.

"Job one is force protection. Keeping American soldiers alive is job one. Everything else is totally subordinate to that top priority." — Wise (117:23)

• Adapting Tradecraft:
  In Baghdad, officers had to learn how to “meet sources without getting killed,” preserving classic espionage under warzone constraints.

6. The Internal Lives, Culture, and Changing Structure of CIA

[~128:32–161:05]

• Leadership Philosophy:
  Argues leadership is universal—military or CIA—characterized by clarity of mission, team-building, and feedback, despite tribal prejudices to the contrary.
• Agency Resilience:
  Speaks on Agency’s ability to weather public failures, scandals (e.g., RDI, Benghazi), and external pressure by centering on its people and values.
• Transparency & Public Engagement:
  Addresses the growing acceptance (and continuing limits) of public-facing roles for retired officers and the improvement of the Pre-Publication Review Board.

"The magic is because of the magicians in CIA. The women and men are magicians in every way, shape, or form." — Wise (143:42)

• Evolution of Paramilitary Capabilities:
  Highlights PMOs as a “unique capability,” saying combining paramilitary and case officer skillsets is tough but essential for modern operations.
• Cultural & Structural Change:
  CIA has significantly restructured, embracing digital innovation and analysis, but “core values are immutable.”

Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• "If you want to look like a hard-ridden mule, then you may want to get off the train right now."
  —Wise on the personal cost of service (02:55)
• "Leadership is leadership. Define the mission, assemble the team, resource them, provide feedback — that's Leadership 101."
  —Wise (50:04)
• "Somebody had the guts and the wisdom to create this pioneering institution called the Counterterrorism Center."
  —Wise (43:11)
• "We learned how to respect each other's capabilities… to not be caught up in mythologies. Success was dependent on mutual support."
  —Wise, on SOF-CIA relationships forged in the Balkans (71:52)
• "Job one is force protection… everything else is totally subordinate."
  —Wise, on shifting intelligence focus in war zones (117:23)
• "The commitment, patriotism, capability, the energy is the same, but the agency is totally different — and that's how it needs to be."
  —Wise, on CIA today vs. then (160:44)
• "The magic of CIA is the magicians — all the women and men."
  —Wise (143:42)
• "Collaboration… between the two communities was not only mission success, but it was also life-saving."
  —Wise, on CIA/SOF partnership (57:16)
• "It's not Disneyland, but we have a couple Goofies in there…"
  —Wise, riffing on Agency culture (144:11)

Key Timestamps

• 01:40 – Wise’s introduction, background, and CIA “origin story”
• 16:31 – Early Army years; lessons as a young officer in a broken military
• 34:52 – Arrival at CIA, formative CTC years
• 43:11 – CTC’s unique challenges and value
• 57:16 – Early friction and later partnership with military/SOF
• 65:47 – Chief of Station roles, Balkans/Bosnia, U.S. values abroad
• 79:39 – How the Balkans experience set the stage for post-9/11 ops
• 86:40 – 9/11: Initial moments and aftermath for Wise; Afghanistan
• 95:15 – CIA's operational role in early Afghanistan
• 104:38 – Iraq War: Challenges, changes in intelligence work
• 117:23 – Shifting CIA mission from strategic to tactical in Iraq
• 128:32 – Roles post-Iraq; training next generation of case officers
• 137:45 – Agency adaptation to public scandals and organizational pressures
• 143:42 – Why real CIA talks and mythbusting are critical
• 156:33 – Evolution of paramilitary officers and Agency transformation
• 160:44 – Final reflections on Agency’s enduring VALUES

Memorable Moments & Episode Character

• Wise’s story about being mistaken for “the fat old guy” introducing the CIA at Chatham House (around 07:25), illustrating public misperceptions of what a real intelligence officer looks like.
• Self-deprecating humor: Repeated references to looking like a “hard-ridden mule,” riffing on Star Trek and Star Wars tropes for headquarters and field postings.
• Reflection on American “core values” projected abroad—not only as policy but as lived experience, particularly in the Balkans.
• Repeated emphasis on stewardship, transparency, and humility:
  “I don’t think I’ll be inspirational, but maybe I can help you get over obstacles and join the family.”

Final Thoughts & Continuing the Conversation

Wise expresses gratitude for “platforms like Team House that give voice to the voiceless,” advocating greater public understanding of complex, secretive work. The hosts, in turn, express intent to have Wise return for deeper dives—on Syria, Ukraine, DIA, Agency culture, and paramilitary transformation.

In closing, Wise champions the ordinary officers and operators of CIA and military SOF as the real magicians behind every success. The episode is a testament not only to covert action and big-picture strategy, but to the quiet, hard-won lessons on risk, sacrifice, and integrity.

[Full episode available via The Team House podcast platforms.]