BONUS: Archipelago at the Treffert Center

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Telepathy Tapes

BONUS: Archipelago at the Treffert Center

Host: Ky Dickens
Date: November 6, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this special bonus episode, The Telepathy Tapes takes listeners inside the first-ever Archipelago event at the Treffert Center in Fond du Lac, Wisconsin—a landmark gathering uniting savants from around the globe. Host Ky Dickens explores Treffert Studios, a novel creative and mental health space serving the worldwide savant community, and recounts profound stories and insights on the untapped potentials and extraordinary abilities of individuals often labeled as disabled or limited. Through intimate interviews, moving stories, and powerful music, the episode illuminates the legacy of Dr. Darold Treffert and the ongoing mission to embrace, nurture, and celebrate neurodiversity and unique genius.

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Major Topics and Key Insights

The Treffert Center & Archipelago Event

• Treffert Studios: Vision and Purpose

  • Jeremy Chapman, Medical Director:

    "We knocked down the walls of this 8,500-square-foot building to have a hybrid outpatient mental health clinic and creative production studio under one roof. I don't know of any other place that has all of those together." — [01:53]

  • The aim: Bring together clinical, creative, and community support for savants; staff includes clinicians with artistic backgrounds.

• The 'Archipelago' Gathering

  • Inspired by Dr. Treffert's “Islands of Genius,” the event name symbolizes connecting individuals with unique abilities.

    "We brought islands of genius together into an archipelago and we had an art gallery there. We had a live music performance." — Jeremy Chapman [03:04]

  • The gathering is the first international event of its kind, enabling savants to meet, collaborate, and form lasting bonds.

Spotlight: Tony DeBlois – Musical Savant

• Early Life & Musical Gift

  • Born premature, blind, and autistic, Tony’s musical journey began with a toy piano at age two.
  • Janice DeBlois (Tony’s mother):

    "Tony was a preemie. He weighed a pound and three quarters of an ounce... I was actually given a choice to let Tony live or die." — [03:58]

  • Tony quickly learned "Twinkle, Twinkle Little Star" and other tunes; music rapidly became his language and therapy.

• Development through Music

  • Music was used to teach him everyday tasks, such as brushing teeth and hair, by matching motions to musical activities.
  • Janice:

    "They had to use his music to be able to teach him..." — [06:07]

• Education and Achievements

  • Despite being nonverbal at Berkeley College of Music, Tony learned to communicate via song lyrics and became the first blind autistic student to graduate Magna Cum Laude in 1996.
  • Now a renowned performer and visiting professor.

• Musical Range and Memory

  • Plays 23 instruments, sings in 11 languages, and can perform over 10,000 songs, often after a single listen.
  • Tony:

    "23 musical instruments in 11 different languages and nine impressions." — [05:28]

• The Importance of Family Advocacy

  • Tony’s progress credited to his mother’s relentless support:

    "When things were complicated or difficult or disconnected, they didn’t turn away. They didn’t give up. They leaned in." — Ky Dickens [08:22]

  • Janice’s advice:

    "Listen to their kids... Tune in to what your kid wants." — [09:21]

Spotlight: Grant “Jigsaw” Magne – Visual Artist

• From Paper-Tearing to Collage Art

  • Childhood behaviors (paper tearing) were initially seen as disruptive until redirected creatively by his mother.
  • Grant:

    "As Grant would tear paper, he would tear everything and he would get in trouble... I show it to my mom and she loved it. And then it just created more and more." — [10:49], [11:15]

• Eco-Art Innovations

  • Known as the “eco-friendly artist,” Grant upcycles puzzles and other materials to create award-winning art.
  • Grant:

    “My signature mark is using recycled puzzles. What I do with puzzles is I like to peel the prints off of them one at a time so they’re nice and paper thin.” — [11:45]

• Art, Collaboration, and Healing

  • Co-authors children’s books with his mother, focusing on inclusion and overcoming challenges.
  • Julie Coy (Grant’s mother):

    “…Dr. Temple Grandin has taught me the different ranges, so she calls them fully verbal, partially verbal, non verbal. Everyone had their story to tell.” — [12:19]

  • Grant’s cancer journey was supported by holistic and community-based approaches.

• Art as Therapy and Service

  • Grant’s art acts as a form of meditation and therapy; he also raises funds for special needs charities.
  • Grant:

    "Working with my art is like a form of therapy to me. It's like meditation." — [16:49]

• Voices of Inclusion Project

  • An initiative using authentic voices (not AI) to tell character-driven stories representing diverse abilities.

  • Grant:

    “I just like to say my autism does not define me. I define my autism through my talents and skills. And I hope you all will feel the same way too, whether it’s autism or anything else.” — [17:51]

Community, Connection, and Advocacy

• Dr. Treffert’s Vision Living On

  • The center continues to expand outreach, evaluation, and opportunities for the global savant community.
  • Jeremy Chapman:

    “Now we have social media where people can reach out to us and send us a link… We’re starting to craft a savant evaluation protocol... Not because we're trying to give them trophies... it’s just more about understanding the brain and guiding them.” — [23:13]

• Emotional Impact of the Archipelago

  • The event’s power lies in the connections forged among savants:

    "We brought these people together so they could meet each other. The looks on their faces, the hugs that they gave each other, and the tears that were streaming down their faces like they’d found their people." — Jeremy Chapman [20:29], [22:47]

• Challenges of Recognition & Inclusion

  • The difficulty of acceptance, loneliness, and public skepticism is a recurring theme.
  • Derek Amato (acquired savant):

    "If there was a circus of savants, I would be the guy in the red coat up front… But I found that there was a strand of empathy, this relationship and this common denominator... There was such an exchange in energy." — [19:33], [21:03]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Self-Belief and Advocacy

  • Archipelago Attendee:

    "It's okay to be different." — [03:28]

  • Jeremy Chapman:

    “Believe in yourself.” — [03:33]

• On Unlocking Gifts

  • Jeremy Chapman:

    “People like Tony Deblois… they’re born with a disability and some undiscovered gift, and it’s a matter of chance that they get exposed to the thing that they can thrive in.” — [09:41]

• On Artistic Process

  • Grant Magne:

    "My autism does not define me. I define my autism through my talents and skills." — [17:51]

• On The Power of Community

  • Ky Dickens (Host):

    "The islands of genius that we met at the Treffert Archipelago validate that neurodivergency is a transformative strength." — [18:02]

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Important Segments & Timestamps

• Treffert Studios Vision – [01:53]
• Introducing the Archipelago Gathering – [03:04]
• Tony & Janice DeBlois Interview – [03:58]-[09:41]
• Grant (“Jigsaw”) Magne & Julie Coy Interview – [10:40]-[13:26], [16:49]
• Derek Amato: Acquired Savant Perspective – [19:16]-[22:47]
• Discussion on Connecting Savants and Future Vision – [23:06]-[25:32]
• Advice for Aspiring Artists & Parents – [25:50]-[26:17]

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Closing Inspiration: Advice from Savants

• Grant Magne:

  “If you want to be an artist… practice first, then get your name out there. Enter competitions... Make a portfolio. Start with the small stuff and then work it, work it, and eventually you will reach success.” — [25:50]

• Tony DeBlois:

  “We’re going to keep dreaming it and we’re going to keep doing it… Be yourself to parents out there. Well, keep them on their dreams and keep them going where they're going.” — [26:12]-[26:17]

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Summary

This episode demonstrates how embracing differences and tuning into the unique gifts of neurodivergent individuals can unlock not only personal success but can push the boundaries of our collective understanding of human potential. Driven by love, advocacy, and creative opportunity, the Treffert Center’s Archipelago event is a testament to community, resilience, and the enduring legacy of Dr. Treffert’s belief in “islands of genius.”

Transcript

[A]

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[A]

That's musical savant Tony Dublois entertaining on the grand piano at the SSM Health Trefford Center's Treffert Studios in Fond du Lac, Wisconsin, a state of the art multimedia creative facility designed specifically for the worldwide savant community. We explored the fascinating world of savants in this past week's episode of the Telepathy Tapes with psychiatrists from the Treffert center who are carrying Dr. Treffert's mission to support, understand and encourage savants into the future. Treffert Studios hosted the world's first international gathering of savants at an event called the Archipelago last July. Let's take a closer look at Treffert Studios. Here's the Trefford Center's Medical director, Child and Adolescent Psychiatrist Jeremy Chapman.

[C]

Because Dr. Truffert's work with savants involves by definition these beautiful creative gifts, artistic gifts, musical gifts, video. And so they were already thinking, we want to have a place where we can bring all this together, opening a studio and looking for ways to combine that with mental health. And we opened Trufford Studios. We designed it from scratch. We knocked down the walls of this 8,500 square foot building to have a hybrid outpatient mental health clinic and creative production studio under one roof. I don't know of any other place that has all of those together. And so we are always looking for ways to marry those two things. And we specifically hired clinicians who have a creative twist to them. A background in film or media or who know how to play guitar and stuff like that. So we have a really cool team now and we have a totally unique space to serve the savant community of the world.

[A]

Dr. Treffert's legacy of seeing islands of genius where others see limitation expands every day. The telepathy tapes was invited to visit the Treffert studios for its first, first ever archipelago event. This historic event was the first official international gathering of savants in history, connecting many of the islands of genus who worked with Dr. Trefford for years and sometimes decades until his passing in 2020.

[C]

The name referring to a collection of islands because Dr. Trufford's book Islands of genius referred to the phenomenon in which someone who has savant syndrome seems to have this island of intactness or genius in an otherwise somehow compromised brain. So we brought islands of genius together into an archipelago and we had an art gallery there. We had a live music performance.

[D]

And we have a very special message for all of you. It's okay to be different.

[C]

Believe in yourself.

[A]

That's Tony Dublois again playing at the archipelago piano lounge for fellow savants and event guests. We had the pleasure of seeing this amazing community in action, showing artworks, calculating equations, explaining the universe, playing music and much more. We caught up with Tony and his mother Janice in between Tony's live set.

[E]

Tony was a preemie. He weighed a pound and three quarters of an ounce when he was born. I have a picture of him when he's six weeks old and I'm holding him. His arm is the same size as what my finger is. I was actually given a choice to let Tony live or die.

[D]

Now we do galas. We play at gala tonight at 5 o'.

[E]

Clock.

[A]

So first off, we're excited to see you perform again tonight at the big archipelago stage show. And you've played all over the world, right?

[D]

Singapore twice, Taiwan three times, Canada, Limerick and Dublin, Ireland and Lagos in Abuja, Nigeria. Beijing, China between the Olympics and the Paralympics of China.

[E]

Who'd you get to play for?

[D]

Leonard Bernstein? I got to meet him in the United nations in New York.

[A]

Tony weighed less than 2 pounds at birth. He's autistic and he's 100% blind. Janice got him a toy piano when he was two years old, hoping it might help him to sit upright. But Tony did much more than that.

[E]

He was doing Twinkle, Twinkle little Star and I recognized what he was playing then. He was playing all the songs from all his music boxes.

[A]

After so quickly learning Twinkle, Twinkle little Star and theme songs he heard from the television. Tony was not only sitting upright, he was beginning what would become a prolific career in music. Years before he could communicate verbally, he was performing music professionally by the age of nine. Now 51, Tony entertains internationally and can play 23 different musical instruments.

[D]

Yeah, 23 musical instruments in 11 different languages and nine impressions.

[A]

So, Tony, can you sing in other languages?

[D]

Abries mis ojos. His eyes in Spanish. Open my eyes. Abre misojo, senor. Ayura me aravel te senor. Abre misojo, senora me oro vermiso.

[A]

By becoming passionate and learning the motions of playing musical instruments, Tony also learned how to do everyday tasks like brushing his teeth. That had previously been an incredible motor challenge.

[D]

Oh, with the violin, I used the bow.

[E]

They had to use his music to be able to teach him. And because it was in his ed plan, they even had to rent a violin for him to do it. To be able to brush his hair. He got drum lessons for the up and down wrist motion.

[D]

We played rock and roll 60s songs by the Beatles. We did 50s and 60s music for my recital.

[A]

When Tony started undergraduate music studies at the prestigious Berkeley College of Music, he was still nonverbal. But eventually he did learn to speak through song lyrics. Due to his mom's advocacy and love and the deep support from Dr. Treffert, he studied jazz improvisation and graduated magna cum laude in 1996, the first blind autistic student to do so. Tony, like a lot of the savants we met, is now a teacher himself, notably at the Vandercook College of Music in Chicago.

[D]

I'm a visiting professor now.

[E]

Tony's a visiting professor there, and I'm.

[D]

Teaching the students about jazz improvisation. So I get up at 5:30 in the morning to go teach the students.

[A]

Not only can Tony improvise through jazz music, but he has an incredible memory for music in many popular genres. With a repertoire of over 10,000 songs and counting, he can play a song after hearing it only once and loves to do all request performances. So, Tony, what are some of the impressions that you do?

[D]

I'm doing three Frank Sotra tribute shows with an 18 piece orchestra behind me. It's gonna be a lot of fun. People can probably sit and have a drink, mom, enjoy some Sinatra.

[A]

Tony and his mom Janice are incredibly close. And Janice's dedication, support, and love for her son is tangible in the room as they share memories of their incredible adventures together.

[E]

Tony tells me things now about things that we did when he was little, before he had language. Tony, do you remember Mrs. Killam? It was a babysitter that he had hot dogs. Yeah. And I said, well, what do you remember about her? He says, she fed me hot dogs with sweet potatoes and apples in it. I said, tony, I used to make that for you. I'd put it on in the crock pot before I went to work. And Mrs. Killam used to feed you that.

[A]

The through line and the headline of all the conversations we had with the savants at the Archipelago was the unbelievable advocacy and encouragement from their families. When things were complicated or difficult or disconnected, they didn't turn away. They didn't give up.

[D]

They leaned in and whatever. People can think of a song with that word in that song, Play that song with the word in it.

[A]

Hmm. How about coffee?

[D]

Well, the coffee song by Frank Sinatra. Way down among Brazilians Coffee beans grow by the billion. Cause he's got to find those extra cups to fill. They got an awful lot of coffee in Brazil. You can't get cherry soda. Cause they got to fill their quota. And the way it things are.

[A]

Janice's book about Tony, Some Kind of Genius, was published in 2005. We asked Janice if she had any words for those facing the challenges that she and Toni have overcome.

[E]

Listen to their kids and listen to their kids. Tune in to what your kid wants.

[D]

And tune in what they want.

[E]

Sometimes they make something that doesn't make any sense, but try to figure out what it is.

[A]

When it doesn't make sense, try to figure out what it is. In other words, it's a sign to tune in even more.

[C]

People like Tony deploy. Oftentimes they're born with a disability and some undiscovered gift, and it's a matter of chance that they get exposed to the thing that they can thrive in. And so we didn't want to rely on that. So we have now outfitted our facility, Trufford Studios, with all the creative stuff we can. So come on by. We'll sit you down in front of a piano. We'll sit you down in front of watercolors. Let's see what your gifts are. And that's what we do with our patients, but also with the savants who reach out to us.

[A]

Because of the Treffert Center's insistence on tuning in and connecting where others see disconnection and challenges, many of the savants in the Treffert Archipelago have become art and music superstars, and their lives were literally transformed by someone believing in them and leaning in. What seemed like sometimes nonsensical and destructive behaviors would become amazing Examples of humanity and what we're capable of at our best.

[F]

When I was like four or five years old, I had an obsession for paper coloring, drawing, tearing paper for hours and hours.

[A]

This is visual artist Grant Magne, also known as Jigsaw Grant at the Archipelago. He's exhibiting the artworks with his mother and collaborator, Julie Coy.

[G]

So as Grant would tear paper, he would tear everything and he would get in trouble and they'd ask me to make him stop tearing.

[A]

Julie, then a seamstress, taught Grant how to use scissors. And eventually, instead of tearing paper, he started cutting intricate shapes, which led to his first collage artwork, the Son of God.

[F]

I show it to my mom and she loved it. And then I just created more and more and eventually it turned into a business, the business it is today.

[A]

So what are you most known for today as an artist?

[F]

I am known as the eco friendly artist. That means I reduce, reuse, recycle, and then upcycle paper materials to create beautiful eco art masterpieces.

[A]

Grant's paper tearing blossomed into a prolific career and he's now known for his master award winning collages. And Grant, now, you use a lot of recycled materials in your works, right?

[F]

Wallpaper, posters. Nowadays I can use beads, jewelry. But what I'm best known for, my signature mark, is using recycled puzzles. What I do with puzzles is I like to peel the prints off of them one at a time so they're nice and paper thin.

[A]

Jigsaw Grant and Julie now teach other kids like Grant how to make earth friendly art and how the art making process can grow and heal. They collaborate making children's books together.

[G]

Yeah, we write children's books too. Grant's my illustrator and I'm the author.

[F]

A lot of them are based off our friends. The message we are trying to convey is that it's okay to have challenges because there is always a way to.

[G]

Overcome them and an animal to make you feel good. We sold over 20,000 books. Then we wrote one with Dr. Temple Grandin, and that one's about autism. And Dr. Temple Grandin has taught me the different ranges, so she calls them fully verbal, partially verbal, non verbal. Everyone had their story to tell. So an animal is connected to a person here. This is Tony, who's actually here today playing the piano.

[A]

Another challenge that Grant and Julie faced recently was Grant's cancer diagnosis.

[G]

In 2021, Grant was diagnosed with Hodgkin lymphoma, cancer, almost age 3. For me, it just was one day of screaming and crying because I knew we worked so hard and he was still young. I mean 24 I think you were at the time. And then we went to the SSM cancer center and they took care of Grant. He was tired after each chemo but never got sick. So we used a lot of tuning forks, meditation, frequency healings, and we did it. And everybody who was praying for Grant as well. I would say in the six months process, Grant was cured within three months.

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[F]

Working with my art is like a form of therapy to me. It's like meditation. Once I start and I just get into the artwork, I could be doing it for hours and hours. And by the time I look up, I'm like, when it get dark outside.

[G]

We have a program called Grant Gives Back. That's therapy for us to give back. And he's raised over a half a million dollars with his art for special needs, Wheelchairs, Hearing a equine therapy, scholarships. Another program that we have is called the Voices of Inclusion and we do voiceovers and we have people, those with disabilities and not help us with the voices of these characters. And our goal is to either a network series or a streaming series and using the voices of our people, not AI voices because our people are authentic. You can't make those voices up the way our people speak for themselves. And that is my goal, called the Voices of Inclusion. Grant has a professional tape, voiceover tape, and he's quite a character himself, basically.

[F]

I just like to say my autism does not define me. I define my autism through my talents and skills. And I hope you all will feel the same way too, whether it's autism or anything else. Any challenge you have.

[A]

The islands of genius that we met at the Trefford Archipelago validate that neurodivergency is a transformative strength.

[C]

He has a great body of artwork, and we want to help him get a cartoon about Grant, the Jigsaw giraffe and friends, where they each have a different disability, such as autism, et cetera. And I would love nothing more than to help any platform we have, give him exposure so that he can find more clients and he can become financially independent. These people have very specific dreams and goals and they deserve to have those things met. And we have the tools now to tell their stories to the world and to carry on Dr. Trufford's legacy, his impact on people's lives. And at the very least, if we can help them and they could help others, we hear from people, they want guidance from us, and of course, they want to connect with others who can relate to them, because it can be very isolating. Actually, it's. It's cool. But when you can't relate and you don't know how to play into your child's gift in the school system, or perhaps you're an adult, all of a sudden you wake up, you have a new skill, and it's consuming your attention in your life. It can be very lonely and confusing. So they ask.

[B]

I call myself the senior savant because I've been with Dr. Treffer for long enough, almost 18 years, to where I've seen a few go, a few die, some new ones come in.

[A]

And that's acquired savant musician Derek Amato, also in attendance at the Archipelago, sharing his story with a live audience.

[B]

If there was a circus of savants, I would be the guy in the red coat up front, screaming at all the people getting ready to sit down to watch the show, telling them what's about. Ready to begin. You're in for a ride, right? Welcome to the show. And it's the behind the scenes stuff that's amazing, the stuff that the general population doesn't see. Those are the moments that I think everybody would even like more so than the performance, the stage performance, you know, that's so much in itself, that. That is the show to me.

[C]

We had a little informal gathering at dinner the night before the event, and we had about 20 or 30 of these savants together in a room, man, it was surreal. And the way that they connected with one another and felt one another and spoke to one another, it was like we, the Trafford center team, looked at each other and we were like, the event, the concert, the gallery is just the icing on the cake.

[G]

We.

[C]

We brought these people together so they could meet each other. And when they did meet each other, we could just see, you know, the looks on their faces, the hugs that they gave each other, and the tears that were streaming down their faces like they'd found their people in a way that was, you know, never before. It was so validating. I think for them, of course, all of them virtually had been called crazy or doubted or not believed, is that when you find people who can validate you in a world where you've been maybe ostracized or doubted or just alone and disconnected from the rest of humanity because of their experience of the world.

[B]

And that's why I tell these new savants, man, when they're telling the world, hey, I'm here and this is my gift. I tell them, get ready, man. You gotta prepare for some of these rock throwers, because it hurts for a second. There's this new kid that came into the circle, a couple of them, and every time I would get near him, I would start crying. He would start crying, his dad would start crying. People around us started crying, and I'm like, what in the hell is happening? There was such an exchange in energy. We wouldn't even let each other go. Like, when we hugged, it was like we just melted into one. But I found that there was a strand of empathy, this relationship and this common denominator with a lot of these other people that have experienced sudden genius or what have you. We always want to test one another because we're always. We're fascinated with each other's gifts, right? So he wants me to play piano for him. I want him to calculate dates at lightning speed. So, you know, I was so worked up. The only thing I could think of to say to him after that two minute hug was, my mom was born December 31, 1943, and I need you to tell me what day that was quickly. And he said, that was a Saturday, Derek. And I said, welcome home, kid. There's so much there to unearth. That's kind of where I'm going with all of this, is I'M trying to unearth the possibilities of the human behavior, the human potential. I'm still fortunate to be articulate. I am still very lucky to use parts of my brain that are probably obviously damaged, but still make some sort of sense through life as we go. So I do feel like that ringleader.

[C]

Guy, you know, it was truly. I mean, it was wild seeing them meet each other for the first time. So inspiring. And just when we saw these people look at each other, hug each other, tears streaming down their faces, it was absolutely magical because they connected in a way that we knew none of us could understand.

[A]

How many islands of genius could be undiscovered out there? Who could one day join the archipelago? And how many did Dr. Treffert estimate could be out there?

[C]

You know, he felt like there were fewer than a hundred. That's the one thing that I actually disagree with my. My mentor about. I think there are a lot more. And I think with the advent of social media and the Internet and all this stuff, we're going to start finding them. By the way, Dr. Trufford in his day was. Was handwriting, letters, you know, correspondences with people. Then he had email towards the end of his career. Now we have social media where people can reach out to us and send us a link. Now, if you Google the term savant syndrome, you'll probably find us. Right? Dr. Trufford is the guy for that. Unfortunately, he passed away, by the way, shortly after I took the job. So he never even got to see Truffard Studios. We are all carrying on his legacy here. And now that we hear from savants and we have Trufford Studios, we can invite them and sit down and try and understand and discover the extent of their gifts from all around the world. We've now had people from Nigeria reach out to us, and they found us online, and they're really interested in what we do. And so we're starting to craft a savant evaluation protocol, which is a comprehensive way of going really modality by modality and seeing what are the extent of this person's gifts. Not because we're trying to give them trophies and give them official certification. It's just more about understanding the brain and guiding them. Because after we do an evaluation, we can then sit with the family and the individual and say, okay, here are some ways that you could maybe build off of that, you know, so the person can gain meaningful employment that's rewarding to them, or maybe just here's another person that you might like to connect with. It would help us Connect them with each other, which is the most important thing. And then lastly, it'll help the world learn about these amazing people and take in their music. Even savant syndrome is not really a household term necessarily for many people. And so people have no idea that this even is happening or that people with these gifts are out there. The world should see this stuff. It's beautiful. This is a gift that you should be sharing with the world.

[A]

And given the huge success of the Archipelago 2025, the Treffert center continues their outreach, advocacy, research, and community building, and plans to make Archipelago a yearly event, getting bigger and better every year, keeping Darrell Treffert's vision alive. He saw islands of genius where others saw limitation. Treffer's legacy reminds us that possibility lives everywhere.

[C]

We are trying to identify and connect and elevate the world's savant community. So we'll be back next year and hopefully be bigger and better.

[A]

Before we left the Archipelago event, we asked Grant and Tony if they had any inspirational words of advice to others on how to make their creative dreams come true.

[F]

Let's see. My advice, if you want to be an artist, whether it's working with paint, work with paper like I do, or maybe it's a different form of art, like music, digital art. I would suggest practice first, then get your name out there. Enter competitions and contests to get your name out more. Make a portfolio. Start with the small stuff and then work it. Work it, and eventually you will reach success.

[D]

Well, we're going to keep dreaming it and we're going to keep doing it.

[E]

But what is it?

[D]

Be yourself to parents out there. Well, keep them on their dreams and keep them going where they're going.