Dr. Diane Hennessy Powell (3:45)

I did an extensive review of the literature that already existed by other scientists on these things that I was told were impossible. So I didn't fall for that trap of thinking, you know, the science has settled on that, that telepathy is impossible. It became a goal of mine to explore it, to have the opportunity to actually test it under controlled trials.

Kai Dickens (4:10)

So what was your goal? Was it to prove telepathy exists or just to legitimize it to science?

Dr. Diane Hennessy Powell (4:18)

My goal was to try to advance science by expanding our way of approaching these things. But also I've been wanting to come up with a theory for how the brain and consciousness might even have anything to do with one another.

Kai Dickens (4:34)

By the end of the episode, I promise that I'll explain why Mia's tests don't hold up under scientific rigor. But I think it's imperative for you to get to know Akil first. This trip is more or less just for me to better understand this and understand what Diane's looking for. So she did not come with us to New Jersey. Okay, that's definitely the house. She said to look for the sign here. Pull. Pull in here. Hey. Hi, Manisha. I'm Kai. I arrive at Akhil's house with Michael, who's my camera guy, and a small crew. Okay, is it okay to put things right here? And we'll take our shoes off?

Manisha (5:08)

Okay. Kai is here.

Kai Dickens (5:10)

Oh, my gosh, Akhil, it's so nice to finally meet you in person. When we arrive, Akhil's just getting ready for his day. While the crew brings in equipment, I sit down with Akhil in the hallway near his kitchen. We're on the floor, and he's draped himself in a blanket.

Manisha (5:25)

So, Kai, I want to show you some stuff. Show your app.

Kai Dickens (5:28)

What is your app, Manisha? Hands an iPad over to Aqeel and encourages him to show me the app that he uses for communicating.

Manisha (5:35)

This will be the best thing for you to directly communicate with him. We have to.

Kai Dickens (5:47)

H. Akil is typing into an app where every letter or word that he types is spoken out loud. The software also uses a predictive text tool that offers likely next words. So sometimes you'll hear letters being called out and other times an entire word. We have to show.

Manisha (6:04)

We have to show how the mind. How the mind.

Kai Dickens (6:09)

Akil just wrote on his speaking device. We have to show how the mind works. Akil, do you like it better if I type to you on this or when I talk to you with words? Manisha demonstrates for me that using his app to type directly to him is sometimes the best way to get into the flow with Aqeel. Better than talking to him verbally.

Manisha (6:27)

Let's say Aqeel guy is here. They are going to film you. Yeah, okay.

Kai Dickens (6:33)

Aqeel just wrote Kai, spend time with friends and film interviews.

Manisha (6:36)

This will be the best thing for you to directly communicate with him. Akhil, go take shower.

Kai Dickens (6:42)

While Akhil goes and showers and gets dressed, we spend a little time chatting with Manisha at her kitchen table. You said like up until age 11 he was non verbal, but he was understanding everything.

Manisha (6:51)

He was comprehending everything. But he did not have a way to show us. So he goes to this new school and they introduced him to something called supported typing. It's very controversial and I had no clue. And they had 40 children already typing in the school. He goes for his first typing session. So they just gave him a little bit of support from here. And with that support he typed four lines.

Kai Dickens (7:16)

Manisha is showing me how the teacher would support the bottom of Akil's wrist when he first started typing.

Manisha (7:21)

So the school teacher called me next day and said, you know what? We are doing the supported typing program with Akil. But I said, he doesn't know his letters. He said, of course he knows his letters.

Kai Dickens (7:30)

So by 11, Akil had already been through two different schools. And this new school started to teach Aqeel to communicate via typing. Manisha didn't believe it. She didn't think it was possible because for a decade all the other schools had told her that he doesn't know any numbers or letters.

Manisha (7:46)

The school teacher called and said, why don't you come and check it out? I said, okay. So I go there. She shows me how to do it. I see it and I'm still unsure about it. So almost a month or two months passed. Akhil was typing in school with the teacher. We just had two choices. Should we believe in this communication or should we not believe in this communication?

Kai Dickens (8:06)

And she hedged a bet. And she tried typing with him alone at their house. And something clicked.

Manisha (8:12)

I had to literally look into his eyes and told him that I trust you.

Kai Dickens (8:19)

She went against every professional opinion in her life and made the choice to presume competence. And everything changed between them.

Manisha (8:28)

I don't know what happened, but things clicked between me and Atakiel and we started our journey. And then I would ask him many questions.

Kai Dickens (8:35)

So you knew he was typing for real?

Manisha (8:37)

Yes. But if you go and search about supported typing, it would be all very controversial.

Kai Dickens (8:42)

Okay. Because supported typing, maybe you could just explain it again. It's when you have the help and support of a therapist. But from what I understand it, the controversy is, oh, well, the therapist is pushing their hand.

Manisha (8:52)

Correct. It starts from here. Then support comes here. Then support comes here.

Kai Dickens (8:57)

Manisha is showing me that when Akhil first started typing, pressure was put on his wrist. Then it was moved to his forearm, then to his elbow, and then to his shoulder. Though Akil learned to converse via supported typing, there are various methods of typing to communicate. The original method was called facilitated communication and that received the most criticism due to amount of touch involved. There's also rapid prompting method and spelling to communicate. Many in this world just simply say spelling to keep things easy. And it's common to refer to individuals who communicate this way as spellers. And the reason spelling works is because you're using your body to point to a letter. And that's a gross motor skill versus verbally speaking, which is a fine motor skill.

Manisha (9:34)

And we believe in him. And we said, you know what? We are going to presume competence.

Kai Dickens (9:40)

And thank God they presumed competence because now aqeel can type totally on his own into an iPad or computer without anyone touching him. Once aqeel could communicate, Manisha and her husband got to learn about aqeel in a whole new and intimate way. And one of the most shocking but helpful things he told them was that he didn't realize he had a body.

Manisha (10:02)

But akhil was not aware of his body. He made a statement, I cannot see my body in my mind.

Kai Dickens (10:08)

And how did you teach him to see his body?

Manisha (10:10)

We started touching him, and I started touching each finger. He realized, oh, I have hands and fingers and they move.

Kai Dickens (10:19)

I love this visual of Manisha rubbing his hands and fingers. And then Aqeel realizing, oh, I have hands and fingers and they move. There's just no way he could have conveyed this type of disconnect without being able to communicate.

Manisha (10:32)

And then he started saying, oh, I have a body, but the body in my mind doesn't move.

Kai Dickens (10:38)

Akhil talks a lot about the mind, body, disconnect. And this was how he articulated it for the first time, that the body he sees in his mind doesn't move when he asks it to do so. And so when did everything start with telepathy? Like, when did you realize he could read your mind?

Manisha (10:53)

I could feel that he is reading my thoughts. He has a capacity to read my mind. But like, one day he was in school and he typed with me and said, oh, you had gone out today. And then he started typing everything he knew. I went to Walmart. I didn't get things there. Then I went to Target. So everything, like my life was like an open book.

Kai Dickens (11:13)

So you were like, where did I go today? And he said, target, Walmart.

Manisha (11:16)

Yeah, yeah, he knew everything. I didn't even tell him anything. But he. And that's why then I was like, oh my God. I called my husband and said, what is this? My life is an open book. And that's why I got convinced that this is telepathy. And then I started reading more about it. It was very hard to find answers for this.

Kai Dickens (11:32)

This has become a familiar refrain by parents who discover their kids have telepathy. There's just not much information about this out there. So Manisha turned to people within the community, others who she'd met through the spelling world.

Manisha (11:43)

So people who are from the supported typing world. I went and I asked, what is happening when I'm near Akhil? What is my field and what is Akhil's field? Why do you my thoughts and his thoughts become identical?

Kai Dickens (11:58)

The specificity of her question is important. What is his field versus what is my field? She's not asking, what's his body and what's my body or his thoughts or my thoughts. It's more about how are they merging.

Manisha (12:08)

And she said, it's like these kids are using your blackboard, so they use your mental space. So this is a dimension which is beyond science for me.

Kai Dickens (12:21)

Trying to make sense of this was totally beyond me as well. And in future episodes we will dig into this with many experts. But what I can say right now is that Manisha is one of many, many parents and teachers who say that there seems to be some sort of energetic transfer or something going on. One mom said to me, in order for my son's software to work, he needs to use my hardware. It's very clear that non speakers have thoughts of their own and they can communicate independently, and they are extremely capable of thriving in school. But what many non speakers are saying is that they have the ability to merge in some way. And parents and teachers will tell you that at times you can't tell where one consciousness begins and the other one ends. So how did you meet Dr. Powell?

Manisha (13:04)

So it was 2015, and I approached her saying, Dr. Dayan, you know, my son is telepathic, and how could you help us to understand him or what we can do? And that's how. Then first time Dr. Dayan came to our house, she did a part one study.

Kai Dickens (13:19)

This first telepathy test that Dr. Diane. Diane did with Manisha. And Akil was on that drive she sent me when I first met her. The other amazing thing about this test was that the famous author and new age guru Deepak Chopra tagged along. And apparently he was so amazed by what he saw that he left his briefcase and glasses and I think even his phone at Manisha's house because he was so flustered by what he just witnessed. Akhil resurfaces, and he's dressed and ready for the day. But you can tell he's distracted and a little concerned about all the lights and the people.

Manisha (13:52)

Akil, do you think we should show them how you boil the eggs? We use insta pot. We use electric gadgets so that Aqeel can cook for himself. So now he can, like, boil eggs for himself.

Kai Dickens (14:04)

Manisha has done an incredible job equipping Akil with his independent living skills. And while she's showing me around the kitchen, Akil leaves the room and he hides in the closet. Do you want to go check on Akil?

Manisha (14:13)

Just, you know, come, come out. Okay. Yes. I'll give you you tub. Come out.

Kai Dickens (14:19)

Manisha is promising Akil that He can have YouTube once he comes out. This is a negotiation I feel very familiar with from my own household.

Manisha (14:26)

Come. I'll give you YouTube.

Kai Dickens (14:27)

Come.

Manisha (14:28)

He's overwhelmed today. He wants you to kind of hidden.

Kai Dickens (14:31)

All knowing that Akil can seemingly read Manisha's mind. I find it very cute that we're whispering, but more than anything, I want to make sure he's comfortable. You don't have to ask him right now if he needs alone time. But does he want to do an interview first? Go walk around outside for a little. Does he want to show tele?

Manisha (14:46)

I can check with him.

Kai Dickens (14:47)

When Manisha Comes back into the room. She suggests that we take some of the lights down. There's a lot of commotion, a lot of newness, and it's simply and understandably overwhelming.

Manisha (14:56)

This is, you know, this is overwhelming him.

Kai Dickens (15:01)

We'll take the light down now. We are going to get rid of everything, right? Yeah. I mean, we'll be in here the most, so probably. So I asked the crew to please take down all the lights and for them to go stand outside. The weather was beautiful. Thankfully, I wanted to meet Akil where he was at. And with his permission, I went and sat with him in silence in the closet for a little bit. And with Manisha's prompting and the safety of his blanket, he settled in at the dining room table. So it's better now. So no one's up here now. It's just Michael and your mom and me. Okay.

Manisha (15:27)

Okay. So I want you to see how Nakhil's mind and my mind are connected.

Kai Dickens (15:32)

Okay.

Manisha (15:33)

Whatever you call it as a telepathy or you call Whatever.

Kai Dickens (15:36)

Okay.

Manisha (15:36)

I'm just going to paper from here, and I'm going to fold it.

Kai Dickens (15:42)

Remember that we don't have Dr. Diane here, so we're kind of winging it. Manisha grabs a spiral notebook and sheets of white computer paper. Manisha is kind of spearheading this test, and I'm a little confused as to what's happening.

Manisha (15:54)

You're gonna make eight of them. If you want to do it more, just make more.

Kai Dickens (15:59)

She's folding the white paper and making deep creases so we can easily tear them into little white cue cards.

Manisha (16:04)

And then I want you to write one word here.

Kai Dickens (16:08)

She hands me the notebook, and I like what's happening because she's suggesting, using it as a partition, I'll be able to write a word on one of the cue cards inside the notebook, blocking the view of it by holding up the COVID Okay.

Manisha (16:19)

Write it. So you decide which words you want.

Kai Dickens (16:22)

Okay.

Manisha (16:23)

And hold on to them.

Kai Dickens (16:25)

I'm gonna have my camera guy right over here. Choose this way. It's. Yeah.

Manisha (16:27)

Anybody?

Kai Dickens (16:28)

Okay, Michael, let's write these over here so there's no way anyone can see. Okay. And then we'll put these in the paper bag and just give me one in my hand. Okay. Michael has made a black backing out of foam core to put behind each slip of paper. So there's no possible way Akil could see the paper. Okay. So Akil cannot see this. This is the first one. The first one was written by Michael, and the word he chose was onion o N I O N. Okay, now Manisha and give it to. We're at a dining room table. Akhil is sitting at the head of the table. And I'm standing with Manisha perpendicular to Akhil on the long side of the table. When we start the test, Akil is just looking down at the table. And then he grabs his iPad in order to communicate. O N I O N. Onion. That's awesome, Akil. Michael's eyes become huge. That's so cool. See his eye?

Manisha (17:24)

He's like, what?

Kai Dickens (17:26)

Now I'm going to give you another one. Okay. So Manisha, come stand here. I've taken a step back and changed my body position slightly just in case. I reach into the paper bag and the new word is tiger. This one.

Manisha (17:38)

Okay.

Kai Dickens (17:39)

Okay.

Manisha (17:39)

Go buddy.

E (17:40)

T A.

Kai Dickens (17:44)

G E R. Tiger. Wow. Awesome. Amazing. Can you do it if your mama's farther away? Yeah, she could be here. You think? Yeah. Yeah.

Manisha (17:57)

Should we try verbally? He can give verbal also. Okay, so we'll do one verbally.

Kai Dickens (18:01)

This is exciting because we haven't done this before. Akhil is minimally verbal. And though it's difficult for him to string together a sentence verbally, he's great at calling out letters. Akil's pronunciation might sound different from yours or mine. He can't form words or sounds effortlessly. But we go ahead and try this test. So here Akhil has moved over to the sofa in the living room. And Manisha is still sitting at the dining room table which is about 15ft away. And she's going to basically show us how Akhil's telepathy works in real time. So for every letter she writes, he will speak it. She writes the first letter M. Next she writes letter O and she writes the letter V. She is. Manisha was barely even done writing the word movie when Akil was yelling it from across the room. It was pretty unbelievable. This is a book that my father in law wrote about an uncle. So you can't buy this book on Amazon. You can't find it anywhere. So if you open this book right now and you looked at a picture and said what am I looking at? What would he say?

Manisha (19:03)

He will tell me what I'm looking at. He will tell me what I'm looking at.

E (19:08)

Do you have to be even in the room?

Manisha (19:11)

No, I don't have to be in the room. So one day I was watching a movie of athlete whose leg was amputed and he got into Special Olympics.

Kai Dickens (19:24)

The family lives in a house with multiple floors. So one day Manisha was watching a Film downstairs in the basement about an Olympian who had his leg amputated.

Manisha (19:32)

And I went upstairs to tell Akhil, Akhil, Aqhil, come, come look. I want to show you the story. See how people overcome their difficulties and challenges. He said, yes, I know he doesn't have have a leg and he is.

Kai Dickens (19:45)

In Olympics because he was watching a show or something.

Manisha (19:48)

Because I was watching and he was upstairs. So those thoughts can get transferred.

Kai Dickens (19:53)

Wow. So Manisha had gone upstairs to tell Aqel, I want you to see this movie. It could be inspirational for you. Akil revealed he already knew the plot line and what it was about, even though Akil was upstairs in his room. Manisha shared a few stories like this. Another amazing one was that she could be reading a book in a different room and later ask Aqil a question about the book she was reading. For instance, where is the main character from? And he could correctly tell her the answer from a book she was reading while she was alone in a different part of the house.

Manisha (20:25)

If I'm sitting here, okay, and I'm reading something in my mind, and if I ask him a question in my.

Kai Dickens (20:29)

Mind, he will answer, this absolutely blew my mind. It's something I think about a lot. And this will be one of many stories you hear like this. One of the subjects we meet later in Georgia knew all about Harry Potter, even though he'd never read the books. When his mom asked him how, he noted that his sister had read all of the books and that's why he could answer any question about it. But he wasn't in the room with her when she was reading them. So this onion will just keep peeling back and back and back. Akhil has walked away. He's in the living room sitting on a couch, watching his iPad. The iPad is a bit of a reward for having so much patience with the test this morning. Akhil, you can probably tell me yes or no. I know you're watching YouTube, but is telepathy how we're meant to communicate?

Manisha (21:10)

That's what he had explained in the past.

Kai Dickens (21:11)

What did he say?

Manisha (21:12)

He had said that in my world, in my world, people don't talk. People just close their eyes and that's how we communicate.

Kai Dickens (21:20)

In his world, they don't talk, but they still communicate. What do you think he meant by that?

Manisha (21:25)

So once he came home and he was upset and I typed with him, so I said, akhil, why are you upset? And he said that I am telling hi to the person, but the person is not replying me back, okay, wait.

Kai Dickens (21:37)

So Akil is saying hi with his mind, but the other child isn't responding to him. Because he didn't say it out loud.

Manisha (21:45)

Yes. So he thinks, why do I have to use my mouth and my body to answer the question when I'm answering in my mind? He doesn't get it.

Kai Dickens (21:55)

He thinks everyone should be using flip up.

Manisha (21:56)

Yes. He literally tells me that teach people how to read my mind. And I said, I cannot. He says, I have to read people's mind.

Kai Dickens (22:05)

Despite that, I was confused because Akhil said, in my world, this is how we communicate. And I just kept wondering, well, who is the we? Communication takes two people doing something back and forth. And what I've learned from talking to so many spellers is they do not misspeak. The words they choose are precise and thoughtful, often poetic, so who is the we in his world that he's referring to? We take a break for lunch. And when we return from lunch, I suggest doing more formal tests with Akil using his speaking device. I wonder if there's like, a random picture generator. That'd be cool, wouldn't it?

Manisha (22:44)

A random word generator.

Kai Dickens (22:46)

Oh, yeah. Random word generator. Aha. Okay. Oh, look at this. Weird words. Fake words. Holy. Look how weird that word is.

Manisha (22:56)

Yeah. Perfect.

Kai Dickens (22:58)

I'm trying my best to channel Dr. Powell. We download a brand new random word generator in front of the camera on the spot. And then we set up the room to get various angles with our cameras. I'm going to start the shot right here. So there's nothing back here. We just have an empty room table, no mirrors. With my camera, I did a 360 degree sweep of the room so people could see that there's no one in front of a keel, giving him clues or mirrors or any reflective devices. In fact, Akil was often just looking down to the ground, looking at his hands.

Manisha (23:31)

What should I press?

Kai Dickens (23:33)

You gotta hit the blue one.

Manisha (23:34)

This.

Kai Dickens (23:35)

Exactly hit that one. Or do another random word.

Manisha (23:37)

So when you do the random again, just do it again. Maybe just till, like.

Kai Dickens (23:41)

Even though the software probably makes the word very random, we have decided to always hit the button twice or three times to make the word super, super random.

Manisha (23:48)

Is this okay?

Kai Dickens (23:50)

Yep. The word she selects is Izzard. I Z A R D. Manisha is sitting next to Akil on the couch. And Manisha is closest to me. And my iPad, which now has the random word generator on it, is facing away from Akil toward my camera. There's no way that Akil could see what's on the iPad because it's facing in the complete opposite direction of him. Z A, R. Good. And then shot. Nice, Akil.

Manisha (24:24)

I didn't touch at all.

Kai Dickens (24:25)

Manisha just said I didn't touch at all. And this is because at the beginning of the day, I asked her to never touch him during any of the tests. And this is the first test that we've done where they're sitting right next to each other, side by side. Let's do another one.

Manisha (24:37)

Another one?

Kai Dickens (24:38)

Yeah. Akil is leaning on the couch, his safety blanket draped around his shoulders. In the back of his head, we can see where his eyes are. And once again, there's no way he can see the iPad. It is facing in the complete opposite direction of him.

Manisha (24:50)

Random word.

Kai Dickens (24:51)

Okay.

Manisha (24:52)

Okay. Ready?

Kai Dickens (24:53)

Ready. You're doing great, Akil. The word Manisha has pulled up is KITH K I, T, H. Akil's typing device is sitting casually on the couch, facing up. And she hands it to him so he can start. You're done?

Manisha (25:09)

Yes.

Kai Dickens (25:10)

Akhil types two of the wrong letters here. Something you don't see very often. And he kind of looks at his mom. And then he confirms with Manisha that He can watch YouTube when he's done with all of the testing. And she says yes. And then suddenly it's like he's back in action. K, I, T, H, K. Awesome. Akhil, can we please do one more? Okay. Yeah. Okay. Random word generate. Go for it. The word generated is P, A, T, T, E P, A, T, T, E PAT Good. Nice. We continue to do many more tests with random word generators, random number generators, and Akil continues to be accurate. But this is where things got fun. Okay, so I'm going to see if there's a random picture generator. One of the things Manisha continually says is that this is not sheer telepathy. The second information enters her mind, it goes into his mind. She says it's like they share a consciousness. And sometimes she's not sure if a thought is hers or his or theirs. Together. I'm thinking that a random picture generator is one of the best ways to test this. Because the picture that's generated it often isn't obvious or clear what it is to Manisha or me or any of the crew looking at it. And so if telepathy involves sending a signal to someone or sending a picture and they receive it, then what we're about to do is beyond just testing sheer telepathy, because she won't be sending a signal because she sometimes doesn't know what she's looking at. There is A random picture generator.

Manisha (26:46)

Okay, good.

Kai Dickens (26:47)

Some of them are pretty dumb. I mean, look at this. It's so abstract.

Manisha (26:50)

Yeah, but see, it's interesting.

Kai Dickens (26:52)

Manisha is sitting on the couch, but Akhil has gone back into this little nook off the dining room. It's a small room that we haven't been in yet today. And as Manisha's pulling up the image, I'm asking Michael to please try to go film Akil in the room where he's at.

Manisha (27:05)

But I think I want him here.

Kai Dickens (27:06)

Let's just please try one with him in there.

Manisha (27:08)

Okay?

Kai Dickens (27:09)

Michael, can you please go film Aqeel and I'll cover this? Manisha hits the button that says generate. And an image of red phone booths. The type you see in London. Enter the frame.

Manisha (27:18)

Aqeel, what is this?

Kai Dickens (27:24)

Hey, Michael, can you go over here and get rid of your telephone?

Manisha (27:26)

He said telephone. And what is the color?

Kai Dickens (27:30)

Michael? I have this red.

Manisha (27:32)

You want me to go there with him? Just.

Kai Dickens (27:34)

We know here. Akil sounds out telephone and then sounds out the word red. For most of this test, I'm distracted because I really want Michael to be in the other room with Akil. So we can prove that he was far, far in another room. I've played back this test many times, and I encourage you to do the same. Because, yes, Manisha is echoing or repeating the sounds that Akil is making. And when you play it back, you'll see that he is always making the sound first and she is echoing it or validating what's being said.

Manisha (28:01)

You want me to go there with him?

Kai Dickens (28:03)

No, this is good. She offered to go sit with Akil, but I wanted to capture another test like this with them in totally different rooms. However, at that moment, Akil walks back and sits on the couch. Oops.

Manisha (28:13)

Okay, he's here. He's here. He'll do it.

Kai Dickens (28:15)

We are in the same setup as before where Manisha is sitting closest to my camera. She's holding her iPad toward me. And there's no possible way Akil can see it.

Manisha (28:24)

Okay. Random picture generator ready. Ah. What is this?

Kai Dickens (28:28)

The picture that was generated was weird. You can tell by Manisha's reaction that she isn't sure what it is. To me, it looks like the remnants of a food fight. Like mustard and relish and ketchup on the ground.

Manisha (28:40)

Go. What is that? What do you see, Akhil?

Kai Dickens (28:49)

N T. Paint. Akil had typed paint. Show it up to us, Akhil.

Manisha (28:57)

Can we accept it?

Kai Dickens (28:58)

It's amazing. We did a few tests like this, Akhil would state what he was seeing, even though often Manisha had no clue what the picture was. This felt similar to the popsicle stick test that we did with Mia in the last episode. This was different than just telepathy. I thought about this test a lot. And after the shoot, I talked with Michael, my cinematographer, about it. And here's a snippet from our conversation. I would love to get your take on the random picture generator. Do you remember that?

E (29:23)

Oh, yeah. That was cool. Yeah. There were moments where he's interpreting images differently than we are. But then once he says it or he does it and you look at it and it makes sense, you can tell that he's thinking about these things as a metaphor.

Kai Dickens (29:38)

One of the things that Manisha said to me early on was it's not just sheer telepathy. It's almost like sharing of a consciousness. And she's like, I don't know what that means. Does it mean consciousness is coming to us from somewhere else and we're both tapping into the same, like, signal or what? And so that was the thing for me, watching the random picture generator. It's like, okay, if it's possible like, that my phone can send you a text or my phone can send you a picture. Why couldn't that happen with the brain? Maybe she's sending him a word or a number or a picture. Right. But then when it came to, like, looking at a random picture, like you said, having to interpret this metaphorically, then I was like, she doesn't know what she's even sending him because she doesn't even know what she's looking at sometimes. So what does this mean? Is he looking through her eyes?

E (30:26)

Yeah, that's. That's the. That's the difference is, like, is he just using her eyes as an instrument, like you said? The idea that, like, he sees something or he's interpreting something that she's not even interpreting is more just like he's bypassing her brain and just using her eyes.

Kai Dickens (30:41)

Our afternoon of testing left us with more questions than answers. From another room, Akhil could describe exactly what his mom was looking at when Manisha wrote a word and then crossed it out. Akhil could name the first word and then the second word. He even interpreted pictures his mother viewed from across the room. Was Akhil somehow seeing through his mother's eyes? Were they sharing a consciousness, or was something entirely different happening? We took a break to see Akhil's college setup in the office. There, he types independently with a large computer keyboard, and we saw him do Some lessons in computer graphics and coding. If you want to animate a single shape in Game Lab, you can quickly end up with a lot of variables to manage. Akil demonstrates his academic prowess. He's taking college level classes and the software program that Manisha has just pulled up teaches animation and coding. You can control a sprite's properties in your program by using dot notation. Then we went back to the living room so Akhil could work on building robots on the floor. We stayed there for the remainder of the evening and it felt very intimate and close. We did more telepathy tests, in fact, some of my favorite ones. But we did them in between some meaningful conversation. Akilah, what do you think about the parents who say, oh, my child doesn't understand. They're not in there. N o t, not, not.

Manisha (32:06)

Go ahead. T o to not to.

Kai Dickens (32:12)

H I n k. Okay, yeah. Not to think that T h a t Akil sitting next to to his mom, typing into the speaking device. And this is how he ended up answering my question about what he'd say to parents who think their kids aren't in there. Not to think. They have to show. But this is not easy. The software leaves a lot to be desired when it comes to punctuation. But what he wrote was not to think that they have to show. But this is not easy. Yeah, I know it's not easy. You make yourself understood so well. I also asked Manisha what she wants most for Akhil, though telepathy is a fascinating and perplexing development in her life. And she definitely wants answers. She's got much heavier and bigger concerns.

Manisha (33:04)

The kids, like Akhil, should be accepted. And instead of trying to fix them, see what their capabilities are, what their skills are, and work on strengths, everybody is busy either trying to understand them, research them, make judgments about them, and trying to get them to come in our world and do things what we do.

Kai Dickens (33:30)

And this is the crux of everything. Non speakers have been judged by their behaviors for decades. Schools, doctors, really. Society at large makes judgments on what their body is doing. But this isn't an accurate reflection of their intelligence. It's a beguiling trap. How does society celebrate neurodiversity when we do little to fit them into our world?

Manisha (33:52)

Like the blanket, which he has. Can he take the blanket all over the place? No. The teachers think that's not appropriate and he should not. But this is House, you know. We cannot take the blanket away from him. So there has to be an agreement and a mutual understanding between both the worlds. And Both the world and both the community have to and bring into a balance.

Kai Dickens (34:13)

Akhil operates best when he has a blanket around him. Why can't we allow this in schools or a workplace?

Manisha (34:18)

If they need to be touched like.

Kai Dickens (34:19)

They need to be touched, Many non speakers feel more grounded and better able to regulate their bodies when they're being touched. But when it comes to communicating via spelling, so often their words are discounted as not even being their own if they aren't typing independently into a keyboard. And it took Akil years to get to that point, and some people never do. Should their words and thoughts be discounted along the way because of this? And another way we're not meeting them or even trying is by not looking into this. The idea that non speakers might have abilities with their minds that the rest of us have either forgotten how to use or just simply can't access. Have you ever asked him, does he see through your eyes or just. Does he just know what's in your mind?

Manisha (34:59)

He just. It's just automatic. He gets it automatically at that time.

Kai Dickens (35:03)

And to dig into this further, I came up with a new test on the spot, which ended up actually being one of my favorites. Akhil is under his blanket, busy with his iPad. All right, I'm just going to do something. I took out my phone calculator. Akhil will have to tell us the answer to the equation that we just typed into the calculator in real time. Okay, I'm going to type in the first equation. I type in 110-315-97 times 4. I certainly don't know the answer to that. The answer that pops up is long.

Manisha (35:31)

Whoa.

Kai Dickens (35:31)

Is that too long? As noted, we're sitting on the floor. Manisha is next to Akil, and I'm sitting in front of her holding the calculator away from Akil and toward Michael's camera. So again, there's no way Akil can see this number. Akil picks up his speaking device off the ground and goes for it. The answer is 4412-6388-4412-6388. That's what the number was. Akil. It's so unbelievable. I'm gonna have your mom do it. So I'm out of the shot. Okay, so. So I hand the calculator to Manisha. She keeps it turned away from Akil. Look at me for a second again. You ready for another one? Yeah. Let's please multiply two numbers and see if he gets it. Manisha types in 25:36. And as the answer pops up, she points to her head and says, the moment it comes here. And then she points to Akil and says, it goes there.

Manisha (36:37)

The moment it comes here, it goes there.

Kai Dickens (36:39)

Can you see it already in your mom's head? Yeah. Yes.

Podcast Host (36:42)

Yeah.

Kai Dickens (36:42)

The calculator is pointed totally away from Akil, right up in Michael's camera. And Akil is under his blanket, and his speaking device is on the ground in front of him. By the way, 25 times 36 equals 900.

Manisha (36:53)

Okay, what is it?

Kai Dickens (36:54)

9 0, 0. Unbelievable. We do multiple calculator tests with longer numbers, shorter numbers, and Akhil is right every time. And the reality of what we're seeing there, there really aren't words for it.

Manisha (37:08)

What is this phenomena happening? Why are his mind and my mind completely connected?

Kai Dickens (37:13)

The desperation in Manisha's voice is now something that I've heard echoed over and over again over the course of four years. Can someone please just explain this? And it's hard for scientists to get research funded in this realm because as we talked about in episode one, much of our scientific paradigm is materialism, which more or less says the only things that can be real are things that can be observed and measured. So scientists who earnestly want to research and look into ESP and telepathy have historically not been given much respect and certainly not money. And Dr. Diane Hennessy Powell has been trying, but there needs to be a ton of research looking into this. And what Manisha says next is classic.

Manisha (37:53)

Whoever is asking for data, Aqeel is a data.

Kai Dickens (37:56)

Whoever is looking for data, Akil is the data. Michael had signaled to me that he needed another battery. Oh, you need battery? Run down and get it, because I have to get something, too. When I got to the camera room, Michael had his head in his hands. And if you remember from the first episode, Michael often approaches things skeptically. I would say, and I think Michael would agree, that he doesn't believe in much that can't be measured or explained. And he certainly doesn't put much stock in religion. When he looked up, he said, do I have to believe in God now? Coming from Michael, this was totally out of character. I was actually shocked to hear that question come out of his mouth. And we couldn't really dig into this or talk about it because we were working. So I called him afterward, and I.

E (38:36)

Was, like, trying to find an explanation for these things happening. I'm seeing this with my own eyes, but what does it mean? And it's like, okay, does this open up the possibility that there is something bigger than us happening, whether it's like some spiritual thing or something metaphysical when you see it, that's an easy road to go down.

Kai Dickens (38:56)

The spiritual aspect of this cannot be understated. And most people who enter this world have their thoughts on science and spirituality shift, including the parents and teachers who are intimately involved with the non speakers. But when I asked Michael his thoughts on God after having some time to consider everything he said, the more I.

E (39:13)

Think about it, though for me it doesn't actually prove the existence of God. You know, we used to think God made rainbows.

Kai Dickens (39:20)

His reference is a great one. In fact, John Keats, the poet, once said that Isaac Newton was destroying the poetry and wonder of the rainbow by reducing it to just being a prism of colors. In fact, it's not abnormal for scientific breakthroughs to be met with skepticism. That happened to Galileo when he proposed that the sun and not the earth was the center of our universe. It happened to Gregor Mendel when he proposed his theory of genetics. Many scientific breakthroughs that are rejected or ignored by academics and the public when introduced eventually become accepted as empirical truths about our world.

E (39:51)

But I saw these things with my eyes and I believe that they're happening. So now what I'm thinking about is not whether it's happening, but what's the explanation for it.

Kai Dickens (40:00)

When he was saying this, it made me think of this Nikola Tesla quote. The day science begins to study non physical phenomena, it will make more progress in one decade than in all the previous centuries of its existence. But for now, back to our visit with Akhil. The entire reason that we are here, standing in this basement is because the telepathy test we did with mia in episode one wouldn't pass scientific muster. And here's Dr. Diane Powell explaining why.

Dr. Diane Hennessy Powell (40:29)

To someone who really knows nothing about these children and their abilities. The testing with Mia was really problematic because the mother was touching her. It's problematic because there's this concern that she could be somehow transmitting the information to Mia. Akhila is a much better test subject because he's been able to go on and type at a computer as a refresher.

Kai Dickens (40:57)

Mia had just learned to communicate via pointing to a letterboard or typing into a speaking device. Within the past year, when Mia first started typing on her own, she needed support near her typing hand or wrist. And slowly her mom started putting less pressure on Mia, moving her hand up to Mia's elbow and then to her shoulder, then to her upper back and eventually up to her neck. And now she barely touches Mia with A single fingertip on her forehead. When I met Mia's family in person, none of this felt suspect to me. And if I'm being honest, it still doesn't. It was part and parcel of helping her learn to communicate. And it reminded me of when my dad taught me to ride my bike. I wanted him to hold the handles firmly, squeezing my body between both of his arms. And slowly, when I got more confident, he moved his hands up to my shoulders. And then eventually he was holding the back of the seat. And then at some point, he just touched me slightly on my back. I was balancing on my own, but I needed to know he was there to catch me. Many of us need emotional or physical support when learning something new. And this is especially true for someone who has difficulty with motor planning or controlling their body. The idea that Mia's mom was passing messages regarding detailed words and numbers through a slight touch of a single fingertip that was not visibly moving seemed unlikely to me. But as Michael is always looking through the camera, often with a much tighter view than I have, I called him up to get his thoughts. Do you think that Mia's mom was transferring words and numbers and information through the fingertip on her head?

E (42:27)

No, definitely not. The idea that's like some kind of Morse code thing. I mean, it's just her finger was just on her head. It's not moving.

Kai Dickens (42:39)

But regardless of how unlikely we felt it was that entire words and messages were being passed through a finger. We came to New Jersey to witness telepathy without any touching. And though I understand why Dr. Diane and other scientists doing this work need to focus on this type of criteria in order for their research to be considered thorough and solid, when it comes to day to day communication, it feels kind of ableist and silly for anyone else to dictate how someone else should be communicating in order to have their words counted. We go back upstairs to wrap things up and my head is full of questions. I'm wondering about the origins of consciousness and if it's limited at all by time or space or even death. And I'm wondering how widespread this phenomenon could be. So, Manisha, I know Akil's not in the room right now, and when he gets back, I do want to talk to him about this as well. But has he talked to you about, you know, like, God or spirituality?

Manisha (43:35)

We had some episodes and that was shocking to us.

Kai Dickens (43:38)

And what were the episodes?

Manisha (43:40)

There were some ancestors who had passed away and Akhil started giving messages from them.

Kai Dickens (43:46)

So when you would get these messages from people who passed on, would you go look into them? Like, were they usually correct?

Manisha (43:56)

Yeah, yeah. But then we didn't want you to encourage all these things, so I kept it very limited.

Kai Dickens (44:01)

And she told me some stories about ancestors who had died 20 to 30 years ago. And Akhil passed along messages from them. And when she went back to India, that's when she confirmed that the messages were correct. And then I brought up Mia, who we met in episode one. Nia sees people all the time that other people can't see.

Manisha (44:19)

Akhil used to. But then when Akhil used to, Akhil used to see. Like when my mom passed away and I used to sit down and study with him, he would say that your mom wants to play with me. And I said, where is she? She's sitting beside me. I said, okay, tell her not to play right now. And I kept it very limited. And I didn't want him to get connected with the other world.

Kai Dickens (44:39)

As a parent myself, I get this entirely. I would not want my child connected to another world that I couldn't see or be a part of or control. Akhil came back into the room and I was excited to see him because I felt only he could truly answer this next question. Akhil, have you been around other people who have a difficult time speaking where you get a sense you can read their mind? Like, do you think for most non speaking people they can read minds? Y e S yes. There was no hesitancy. Y e When contemplating telepathy as part of the human experience, the most plausible connection is between a mother and a child. A mother's intuition is undeniable and for the survival of a family unit, it almost makes sense. But Akhil is saying that non speakers can communicate with each other telepathically. And this is what we will explore next. Everyone with non speaking and unreliably speaking.

Manisha (45:40)

Autism have this ability.

Kai Dickens (45:44)

John Paul is in his bedroom and he is telepathically talking to his other friends. They don't even have to be in the same room, the same zip code.

Manisha (45:54)

I'm talking tens of thousands of kids. Every single one of them has been telepathic.

Kai Dickens (46:00)

Every non speaker has the ability to communicate telepathically. In the next episode, we head down to Georgia where we learn that telepathy in non speakers knows absolutely no bounds. A very special thanks to my incredible collaborator and producer, Jen Mirza, who created all music and sound effects for this episode of the Telepathy Tapes. Remember that you can review some of the tests and see some of the film recordings on our website. Thetelepathytapes.com thank you so much for tuning in and join us next week. As this world expands and deepens, it's.

Podcast Host (46:43)

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