Ep 4: Teen Love with a Twist of Telepathy

Summary

The Telepathy Tapes: Episode 4 – Teen Love with a Twist of Telepathy

In the fourth episode of The Telepathy Tapes, host Ky Dickens delves into the extraordinary world of telepathic communication among non-speaking teenagers with autism. Titled "Teen Love with a Twist of Telepathy", this episode explores the profound connections that transcend conventional verbal interaction, focusing on the blossoming relationship between John Paul and Lily. Through emotional narratives, scientific insights, and firsthand accounts from families, the episode uncovers the hidden abilities of these remarkable individuals.

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1. Introduction and Setting the Scene

The episode opens with Ky Dickens recounting his initial encounters with telepathic phenomena in Atlanta. He introduces listeners to Libby, John Paul’s mother, and Jeff Tarrant, a clinical psychologist and neuroscientist specializing in brainwave activity through EEG technology. The setting is a large, tastefully decorated home in Atlanta, where families gather to demonstrate and validate their children's telepathic abilities.

Notable Quote:

Libby [03:38]: “I thought, I'm gonna be like the negligent mother who isn't taking care of her kid. Because people are so judgmental and they have absolutely no idea what life is like when you have an autistic like John Paul.”

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2. The Story of John Paul and Libby

Libby shares a harrowing experience from a 2019 vacation to Hilton Head, where John Paul eloped into the ocean, causing immense fear among his family and the community. This incident underscores the constant vigilance required by parents of non-speaking children with autism, highlighting the emotional toll and the deep bond between parent and child.

Notable Quote:

Libby [05:04]: “I was just looking at his big footprints. I'm like, oh my God.”

Despite the traumatic event, John Paul's return from vacation reveals a different facet of his abilities. He documents his premeditated escape, revealing his desire for autonomy and independence.

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3. Discovering Telepathic Communication

The narrative shifts to the blossoming friendship between Libby and Katie, a mother of another telepathic child, Houston. Katie conducts informal telepathy tests with Libby, which John Paul flawlessly passes, demonstrating 100% accuracy in telepathic responses. These moments are pivotal in validating the children's abilities beyond mere intuition or coincidences.

Notable Quote:

Jeff Tarrant [14:53]: “He didn't miss a single item. When you witness that, it's a little mind boggling.”

Libby recounts instances where John Paul seemingly reads her thoughts, such as finding hidden items and understanding her emotional states without verbal communication.

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4. Scientific Validation through Telepathy Tests

The episode features an in-depth discussion with Dr. Jeff Tarrant, who provides a scientific perspective on the telepathy tests conducted by Dr. Diane Hennacy Powell. Using EEG technology, they monitored John Paul's brain activity during telepathic exercises. Surprisingly, John Paul's brainwave patterns showed no significant changes between baseline and telepathic states, suggesting a constant telepathic state rather than a shift, as observed in other participants like Mia and Houston.

Notable Quote:

Jeff Tarrant [16:24]: “He’s always in a telepathic state. He didn’t have to shift states.”

This section emphasizes the unparalleled consistency of John Paul's abilities, raising questions about the underlying mechanisms of telepathy and consciousness.

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5. John Paul’s Relationship with Lily

Central to this episode is the relationship between John Paul and his girlfriend Lily. Their bond is portrayed as deeply intimate, cultivated through telepathic communication. Both families describe their relationship as consensual and mutually supportive, navigating the complexities of non-verbal communication to establish a meaningful connection.

Notable Quote:

John Paul [07:27]: “There really are so many typers who escape, but who else readily plans an escape? Like getting their trikeway to the beach memorized for a dark solo swim. God, nighttime swimming is awesome.”

Lily, identified as a "voice user," contrasts with the non-speaking telepaths, adding depth to the exploration of different communication modalities within the autism community.

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6. Savant Syndrome and Telepathy

Dr. Diane Hennacy Powell introduces the concept of Savant Syndrome, where individuals exhibit extraordinary abilities that cannot be explained by traditional learning methods. She posits that telepathy should be considered a savant skill, akin to calendar calculation or musical aptitude.

Notable Quote:

Katie [35:39]: “Savant syndrome really stood out to me because it can't be explained by the materialist model that we have in mainstream medicine.”

The discussion extends to historical and contemporary accounts of savant skills, challenging materialistic views of consciousness and suggesting that these abilities may tap into a broader, perhaps universal, consciousness.

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7. Gatekeeping and the Suppression of Telepathy

A significant theme in the episode is the gatekeeping within both the telepathic community and the scientific community. Ky Dickens and Jeff Tarrant highlight the challenges faced by families and researchers in gaining acceptance for telepathic phenomena. Dr. Powell's experiences, including the revocation and reinstatement of her medical license, illustrate the pervasive skepticism and resistance to unconventional studies.

Notable Quote:

Katie [39:37]: “Anybody who's trying to study things like precognition or telepathy that they are engaging in quackery.”

This section underscores the urgency for more open-minded research and the dissemination of firsthand accounts to foster a broader understanding and acceptance of telepathic abilities.

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8. Future Directions and Conclusion

The episode concludes with reflections on the need for increased awareness and validation of telepathy among non-speakers. Lily emphasizes that a critical mass of personal experiences and shared stories will be pivotal in shifting societal perceptions.

Notable Quote:

Lily [33:22]: “I think it's really a mistake by materialism to accept the one and then to say the other is pseudoscience.”

Ky Dickens hints at future episodes that will explore more telepathy tests, the "Hill"—a metaphorical meeting place for non-speakers—and continue unraveling the mysteries of mind-to-mind communication.

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Key Takeaways

• Telepathic Communication: Non-speaking teenagers with autism, such as John Paul and Houston, demonstrate consistent and accurate telepathic abilities, challenging traditional communication paradigms.

• Scientific Evidence: EEG studies reveal unique brainwave patterns in telepaths, suggesting a constant telepathic state that differs from other savant abilities.

• Savant Syndrome: Telepathy is proposed as a savant skill, expanding the understanding of human consciousness and its potential beyond materialistic explanations.

• Gatekeeping Challenges: Both communities and scientific institutions exhibit resistance to acknowledging telepathy, necessitating greater advocacy and research to validate these phenomena.

• Personal Relationships: The relationship between John Paul and Lily exemplifies how telepathic communication fosters deep, consensual connections, underscoring the importance of autonomy and understanding in non-verbal relationships.

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Final Thoughts

“The Telepathy Tapes: Teen Love with a Twist of Telepathy” offers a compelling exploration of the hidden world of telepathic communication among non-speaking individuals with autism. Through heartfelt stories, scientific inquiry, and the resilience of families, the episode invites listeners to reconsider the boundaries of human connection and the untapped potentials of the mind. As Ky Dickens aptly concludes, “the time for silence is over”, advocating for a broader acknowledgment and understanding of these extraordinary abilities.

Transcript

[Ryan Reynolds]

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[Libby]

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[Ryan Reynolds]

Hey, I'm Ryan Reynolds. At Mint Mobile, we like to do the opposite of what big wireless does. They charge you a lot, we charge you a little. So naturally, when they announced they'd be raising their prices due to inflation, we decided to deflate our prices due to not hating you. That's right. We're cutting the price of mint unlimited from $30 a month to just $15 a month. Give it a [e-mail] Switch for $45 upfront payment equivalent to $15 per month. New customers on first three month plan only. Taxes and fees. Extra Speed slower above 40 gigabytes. Details. Hey, what's up everyone? This is Kai Dickens and you're listening to the Telepathy Tapes podcast. My son said to me, I can hear thoughts.

[Jeff Tarrant]

What is this phenomena happening? Why are his mind and my mind completely connected?

[Ryan Reynolds]

Telepathy is the tip of the iceberg with their spiritual gifts.

[Libby]

People don't understand that they can do this. They don't even have to be in the same room, the same zip co.

[Ryan Reynolds]

For decades, a very specific group of people have been claiming telepathy is happening in their homes and in their classrooms. And nobody has believed them, nobody has listened to them. But on this podcast, we do. Welcome to the fourth episode of the Telepathy Tapes. We're staying in Atlanta for this episode because there are multiple families here who are not only friends, but are vocal about the fact that their non speaking children can read minds. Houston, who we met last episode, says many of his friends communicate via a telepathic chat room, which he's nicknamed the Talk on the Hill. One of these friends is named John Paul, and right now I'm standing on John Paul's back deck where he and Houston are in the hot tub. John Paul absolutely loves the water.

[Katie]

Dunking each other.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Oh, Houston's dunking John Paul. John Paul's mom is named Libby and she's so quick to laugh. She's one of those infectious people to be around because she seems to find joy in anything and everything. And right now that joy is centered around John Paul. She's with Katie, who we met in the last episode. And they are delighting in the fact that Houston and John Paul are dunking each other in the hot tub.

[Libby]

I was like, wait a minute. John Paul can do a backflip in the hot tub.

[Ryan Reynolds]

That's what's starting to happen here.

[Libby]

It's awesome. I would really struggle to do that. He's like twice my size.

[Ryan Reynolds]

John Paul is enormous. He's only 16, but he's 6ft 8 inches tall and almost 300 pounds. He's quite a presence. And watching him do a flip in the hot tub is very entertaining.

[Libby]

He does that. Not in the pond. That's his favorite thing to do.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Katie and Libby seem like they've been friends forever, but they've only been friends for about five years. And it was John Paul's love of water that actually brought them together. Libby made a Facebook post about a terrifying moment when John Paul ran off in the middle of the night while they were on vacation.

[Libby]

So that we were at Hilton Head, I think it was 2019. We were there with a friend who rented a fabulous house, had a great pool, and that is a really hard thing for a lot of autism families to go on a vacation like that. So it's always kind of a pleasure to have another friend and be with them because sometimes it's just too hard and other families just don't want to deal with it.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Libby often sleeps in the same room or even in the same bed with John Paul, especially on vacation, because like many people with autism, John Paul will run off without warning. This is called eloping. And it's a terrifying prospect for parents.

[Libby]

So around 4:30, my friend comes in and knocks on the door and she says, libby, the back door is open and the trike is gone.

[Ryan Reynolds]

They had rented a large three wheeled bike for John Paul to use while at the beach. And it was gone. And so was John Paul.

[Libby]

I ran down the stairs, I got on my bike because I knew he went to the water. There's no way he didn't go to the water. I just know him so well. And sure enough, I pull in and I see the Trike perfectly parked in one of the spots. My heart is just racing. I look into the sand and I see his big footprints. I'm like, oh my God. And then I look straight out. There was a full moon. So the moon fortunately cast a pretty good light on the ocean.

[Ryan Reynolds]

She ran up and down the shore, looking into the vast ocean, crying and.

[Libby]

Shouting for him, just saying, you know, oh, my God, where are you?

[Ryan Reynolds]

And then she ran back to the house to get help. Eventually, John Paul's father, Peter, got to the beach. He had stage four lung cancer at the time and was not well.

[Libby]

He's running down the beach in the dark. He goes down two miles, nothing. And at that point, the Coast Guard's been called in Savannah. The fire people were there. The police car was there. Everyone was there.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Eventually, John Paul was found by a neighbor in their boat who's part of a neighborhood rescue group.

[Libby]

And I'm like, okay, vacation is over. I was not going to stay one more night in the house because he would have tried. Probably tried it again.

[Ryan Reynolds]

The local news pick up on the story of John Paul running into the ocean. So Libby posted about the moment on Facebook, almost to preempt the judgment, despite the fact that parents are constantly vigilant, putting locks on doors and windows, monitoring their every move, and even sharing a bed with their child, as Libby did. They are human. Sometimes they need to go to the bathroom or shower or, yes, fall asleep.

[Libby]

And I thought, I'm gonna be like the negligent mother who isn't taking care of her kid. Because people are so judgmental and they have absolutely no idea what life is like when you have an autistic like John Paul.

[Ryan Reynolds]

So Katie saw Libby's post and reached out to her to say, I hear you, I see you. I understand. And in time, they became friends. Great friends. And my favorite part of the story is what happens next. John Paul returns home from vacation and was writing with his therapist. She was thinking the incident might have been traumatizing for John Paul. You know, on the shore, our family, neighbors, police, the coast guard, who were terrified, and they were all reacting to him and his actions. But John Paul planned it. The entire thing was premeditated. And I point this out because as you get deeper and deeper into this world with me, you will learn, as I did, that everything that's discriminatory towards spellers comes back to the fact that people do not presume competence. And so what seemed like a traumatic, horrific incident was planned. And John Paul wrote this to his therapist. And just a quick note. John Paul's writings and poems with his therapist were recorded by his twin brother for this podcast.

[John Paul]

There really are so many typers who escape, but who else readily plans an escape? Like getting their trikeway to the beach memorized for a dark solo swim. God, nighttime swimming is awesome.

[Ryan Reynolds]

And the way he wrote awesome had tons of W's and S's and E's.

[John Paul]

Solo frees more autonomy like my twin gets.

[Libby]

He just wanted autonomy. He just wanted to be left alone and not told what to do.

[John Paul]

Constantly frustrating that Thomas is the normal son. Quite a burden, am I?

[Ryan Reynolds]

And then John Paul continues to write.

[John Paul]

Quite always my weight of stress and shame, how amazing they are. But it does not always rescue my grief at my body's craziness. I just want to be normal.

[Ryan Reynolds]

It took a lot of planning and effort and the cost of fear from the family. But John Paul just wanted to be solo and free like his twin Thomas, escaping the feeling of being a burden.

[Libby]

John Paul said it was the most wonderful experience of his life.

[Ryan Reynolds]

And so this moment led to a blooming friendship between Katie and Libby. And their new friendship was a gift to their sons too.

[Libby]

John Paul is like Houston's little brother in Houston is so dear and kind. John Paul has really some really tough loops. He. He's very vocal and it's really loud. If you were to hear John Paul walking through the woods with his sounds, you would think there's either a bear or Sasquatch is alive and well, because that's what it sounds like. Houston, he'll hold John Paul's hand to try to calm him down. And there's probably a lot of communication going on between the two of them. He's trying to coach him. It's just such a great friendship. I adore it.

[Ryan Reynolds]

After becoming friends, Katie brought up telepathy to Libby.

[Libby]

Befriending Katie opened me up to it because Katie and Houston were doing it. And I'm like, I wonder if John Paul's doing it. And Katie's like, of course he is. And it took someone else actually saying, have you really tried it?

[Ryan Reynolds]

Katie actually orchestrated a test, kind of like what we do with Dr. Powell, where she made Libby think of a number and then, yes, John Paul wrote.

[Libby]

The number and sure enough, he can do it.

[Ryan Reynolds]

I asked her if she thought John Paul was ever reading her mind before Katie mentioned it as a possibility.

[Libby]

I did have ideas that he could. I didn't know if he was reading thoughts or energy or what it was the first time I really thought about it. The boys were maybe three and we were driving somewhere and we were lost. And I don't know why. I was so tired. In my head I was just bashing myself. I was just such negative self talk, close to on the verge of tears. And John Paul just all of a sudden he looks at me and he bursts into tears and he just can't stop Crying. Thomas was okay. And John Paul just. It's like he could feel me and just burst. And once I calmed down and he calmed down and I said, I think he can feel me. Same with hiding candy around the house. I had to hide things that he wouldn't get into. And if I would be thinking about it, all of a sudden he would come running downstairs and go to what I'd hidden. He could find anything. Those were the things that were indicators to me that he possibly was reading my mind. Even now, when we are using the board, he will say, you have got to quiet your thoughts because it's so hard for him to spell when I'm thinking about things.

[Ryan Reynolds]

So you were able to execute a few accurate telepathy tests with Katie. And then there's, you know, all these moments that could feel like just deep intuition right as he's growing up. But did you ever ask him directly, are you reading my mind?

[Libby]

I know he's reading my mind because we are at an open place now.

[Ryan Reynolds]

In the spelling world, being open is shorthand for open ended conversation. Spellers start by answering short questions on the boards before they become fully open, expressing longer free form, fluid thoughts.

[Libby]

It took us a long time to get to open. Partly my fault for not practicing enough. That's the one thing I would love to say about this spelling is that your child may not do it right away. You just stick with it. You keep going with it. So John Paul and I just this year really have gotten real open and I just sometimes ask him something without even talking and he'll answer it. So that's kind of a parlor trick we like to do.

[Ryan Reynolds]

And does he openly talk about having an ability to mind read?

[Libby]

Oh, yes, yes. Oh.

[Ryan Reynolds]

John Paul just appeared totally naked.

[Libby]

That is my life right there. It's a new movie.

[Ryan Reynolds]

This tiny exchange with Libby is so reflective of the unconditional love and joy in which she wraps her son John Paul. There aren't any excuses for him or an effort to monitor him with embarrassment. There's just total unconditional acceptance.

[Libby]

Hey, John Paul, go get your clothes. Go put them on. You've got to be open minded to be at my house. You just have to be. Where were we?

[Ryan Reynolds]

So going back to this just initial discovery, you know. Did Peter, your husband, believe you when you told him John Paul was reading minds? And what about Thomas, his twin?

[Libby]

I told Peter that I felt like John Paul was telepathic and he had seen Houston do his thing, same with Thomas, and they just sort of, oh, well, you know, okay, but until you see it, it doesn't really make sense. So I told Peter, write some words down. And John Paul spelled them. And Peter just. His eyes got so big and he just started laughing and he said, wow, wow. And same with his brother. So I had his brother write a few words down. And his friends were over and they wrote some words down. And sure enough, John Paul did it 100%. And they all were just flabbergasted. And they still are in shock about it. They just can't believe it.

[Ryan Reynolds]

This whole time we've been sitting on the back deck and then it starts to rain. So we all head into the house. It's a beautiful and big old house, tastefully decorated, brimming with southern charm. Houston and John Paul are back in dry clothes, and Dr. Diane Powell is in the dining room with Houston setting up for a range of different telepathy tests that we will cover in a special bonus episode. John Paul did his telepathy test the previous day in private because the noise, lights and crew were just really distracting for him to hear about how he did. I called up Dr. Josh Jeff Tarrant, the neuroscientist who has been doing QEEG scans for us. So, Jeff, just to kick it off, why don't you introduce yourself?

[Jeff Tarrant]

My name is Jeff Tarrant and I'm a clinical psychologist and a neuroscientist. And the majority of the work that I do is involved in studying the brain using EEG technology to measure brainwave activity.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Okay. And then just walk me through the telepathy test that you did with John Paul and Libby.

[Jeff Tarrant]

The tests were done by Dr. Powell, and she would either write down a random four digit number on a piece of paper and show it to Libby and then John Paul would respond. Or different words that were just kind of randomly generated. The whole thing was done in such a way that there was absolutely no way John Paul could have seen anything that was being written.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Yeah. And then how did you assess John Paul's accuracy and his abilities?

[Jeff Tarrant]

He didn't miss a single item. When you witness that, it's a little mind boggling.

[Ryan Reynolds]

I've read about other experiments that have been done around telepathy where it's statistically relevant. Like, were the tests that we did with Dr. Diane Powell statistically relevant or how would you describe them?

[Jeff Tarrant]

Oh, it would be off the chart. A lot of the research with telepathy or any other kind of psychic abilities, what they're looking for is statistical significance. If somebody gets 30% correct instead of the average of 20%. That's meaningful. Right. If you test somebody and they get 30 or 40%, that's really impressive. And these guys are getting a hundred percent. I've never seen anything like it.

[Ryan Reynolds]

And then can you tell me a little bit about the QEEG scans you did with John Paul?

[Jeff Tarrant]

John Paul is a very active guy and moves around a lot, vocalizes a lot. And that, of course, interferes with getting a clean EEG measurement. However, he was very motivated. He expressed several times that he felt like this was really important work and he wanted to share it with people. So he managed to be still enough that we could get a couple of recordings. We did that at a baseline with him just sitting, doing nothing. And then during some telepathy experiments, so that we could essentially compare the two recordings. And what was extraordinary was that there was no difference.

[Ryan Reynolds]

And then how does that differ from the scans you did on Mia and Houston?

[Jeff Tarrant]

Both of them showed significant changes in their brainwave patterns from baseline to when they were doing their telepathy experiment, which made the results with John Paul even more interesting. And initially I was like, this doesn't make any sense. I. I just saw him do 40 tests in a row where he got every single one 100 correct. He didn't miss anything. It was so fast, it was so automatic. How could there be no change in his brainwave pattern? But then, after considering it a little further, my conclusion was that there was no change because he's always in a telepathic state. He didn't have to shift states. And it actually fits really nicely with what we observed, which was that he was responding to the information the moment that Libby saw it.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Yeah. And then just like, as another outsider in the room. Right. From someone coming in, like, would you say the parents and the non speakers are trustworthy? Do you feel like Dr. Powell was doing a good job trying to make sure that people couldn't see cues and things felt random? I mean, is there any way that this was all just like an overproduced magic show?

[Jeff Tarrant]

It was actually really nice because the beginning of the testing, I was really an observer.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Most the telepathy tests we do with each speller don't involve the QEEG scans. We save those for the end of the day because they involve tight head caps, uncomfortable ear clips, and finger sensors. These are irritating to anyone, but especially non speakers, who are very sensitive to their bodies. So Jeff hangs out and watches while we do dozens of tests first.

[Jeff Tarrant]

And so largely, I was just observing, which was actually a really interesting opportunity because I could see that it was like there was no way that any of this could have been contrived. I remember specifically that you guys taking TVs out of the room so that there wasn't any reflection on the off of the tv. And, you know, all of the steps that were taken to make sure that there was no way that there could be any kind of cheating.

[Ryan Reynolds]

I want to do an entire bonus episode where you talk through all the brain scan results. But are there any final thoughts, even maybe more personally regarding these families that you've met?

[Jeff Tarrant]

It was so obvious that these families, they were is perplexed by how this is possible as everybody else. In fact, I found all of those families to be genuine and about as honest as you could get. But even beyond that, these young adults and kids that were doing this work, none of them had any interest in trying to cheat.

[Ryan Reynolds]

So now turning back to our day in Atlanta. While Dr. Powell does her thing in the dining room, Libby and I follow John Paul upstairs to his bedroom where he lies on the bed with pillows stacked on his head.

[Libby]

Well, we are on the second floor, and John Paul is in his bedroom. And what he's doing right now is talking on the hill, which is telepathically talking to his other friend. So he'll just go in there sometimes for hours, sometimes for 30 minutes.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Okay, Libby, so can. Maybe you can explain the setup here with the pillows.

[Libby]

So he will put pillows on top of his head. And what he spelled is that he has to do that to drown out everything else. Like all the noises in the house, he needs to drown them out so that he can focus on communicating. Sometimes he'll have even four or five pillows on his head. Sometimes he'll be laughing. He might cry. I used to think he was. Is he in pain? I used to worry that something was wrong, and now I understand what it is. And it's just him having some social time with his friends. People don't understand that they can do this. They don't even have to be in the same room, the same zip code.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Have you asked him how it works?

[Libby]

I don't know how it works, but Jean Paul explained it. Almost like how the root system works. Trees communicate with each other through their roots, that this is a whole different way that they do that. It's a different system.

[Ryan Reynolds]

When he says they, who is he referring to?

[Libby]

They're either unreliable speakers, very minimal speakers, or non speakers. But it seems to be the non speakers are really good at this.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Well, you're definitely not the only person who said that to Me, I've heard.

[Libby]

Other parents talk about this as well, so I know it's real. I know it's real.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Michael and I move into John Paul's room to get footage of him talking on the hill. And then he suddenly pushes the pillows away and sits up. Libby takes a moment to make sure with John Paul that she didn't misquote him when she was explaining everything just now.

[Libby]

Did I explain this right?

[Lily]

Yes.

[Libby]

Yes.

[Ryan Reynolds]

John Paul heads into his parents room, most likely for some peace and quiet, and Libby and I take the time to chat.

[Libby]

John Paul has two goals. His first goal is to type independently because of course he wants to be a writer. And then his second goal is to marry Lily. Those are his two goals that are very important to him.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Lily is John Paul's girlfriend and he calls her the love of his life. John Paul met Lily when she was visiting his school as a potential new student. Her family traveled across the country for this one school visit. Lily was not at ease on the airplane and the family was thrown off the flight and forced to drive half of the way there. When they finally got to the school, Lily was not in her best frame of mind and the teachers were asking her too many questions. It was totally stressing Lily out and she became dysregulated. Her dad, Scott, is her primary communication partner and as he tells it, John Paul goes up to the teacher and.

[Lily]

Grabs a letterboard and spells, you all need to let her chill.

[Ryan Reynolds]

John Paul's intervention helped. The orientation went well and Lily and her family moved to Atlanta.

[Lily]

It wasn't long after she started going full time to the school that some of the teachers and other communication partners were like, yeah, I think there's something going on between Lily and John Paul as a couple.

[Ryan Reynolds]

They are adorable. John Paul is enormous at 6 foot 8 and he towers over Lily, who is slight, with a beautiful face and blonde hair. John Paul is a gentle giant and also kind of like a playful golden retriever. And Lily has a bit of a punk rock edge to her. You can instantly tell that she's smart, can read a room, and won't take crap from anyone. She's someone I would have wanted as a friend myself in high school. And one thing that is super cool about Lily is she totally rejects the words typical and normal to describe anyone.

[Lily]

Lily calls us voice users, so she considers herself a non speaker, but she.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Calls us voice users and she's even called us voice users Muggles in the past. I love that because in the Harry Potter world, the Muggles are the Ones without magic, they're going through the world not knowing that they're missing out on so much of what's really there.

[Lily]

The non speakers that use mind to mind communication don't think that us voice users could handle that truth.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Just like the department of magic in Harry Potter didn't think the Muggles could handle the truth. I wanted to hear a bit about how their relationship evolved. And here's Lily's mom, Karen.

[Karen]

Through spelling with their different therapists, they really started to spell that they wanted to be in a committed boyfriend, girlfriend relationship. And they would write each other kind of like pen pals. And then they started wanting to hang out after school, you know, on the weekends.

[Ryan Reynolds]

When you are relying on someone else to communicate, consent is critical. Lily and John Paul were spelling their desires with their coaches and therapists. So there is no doubt they were consensually aligned. John Paul and Lily became deeply intimate and committed so fast that both parents kind of wondered if they were communicating beyond just the letterboards.

[Karen]

There might be even more going on than we realized.

[Ryan Reynolds]

And here's Lily's dad.

[Lily]

At one point she came up and asked me, can we see John Paul today? So I text Libby and she's like, oh my gosh. John Paul just came to me and asked me if he could see Lily and even brought me his clothes.

[Libby]

That happened on more than one occasion. So definitely they communicate telepathically. There's no doubt in my mind.

[Ryan Reynolds]

For many listeners this might feel like a huge leap. But parents of spellers witness countless unexplained coincidences every day. And their children, who are known for brutal honesty, openly say they can read minds. But instead of just taking the parents word for it, I asked Lily if her and John Paul were able to communicate telepathically mind to mind. She picked out a digital voice to represent all of her writings and her answers.

[Scott]

Yes, we loved to communicate mind to mind. We were able to do this from the moment we met many years ago when I first visited Atlanta.

[Ryan Reynolds]

I then asked Lily if she hangs out with John Paul on this metaphorical hill.

[Scott]

Yes, all the time.

[Ryan Reynolds]

I then asked what people do on the hill and who goes there and how one accesses it.

[Scott]

You go to the hill to meet with other non speakers and share thoughts. You automatically have access to the hill non speakers go to when you can communicate mind to mind.

[Ryan Reynolds]

But to step back from the hill for a second, I relish learning about John Paul and Lily's love story. She adores his poetry and his writings just as much as his mom does.

[Libby]

I'm always interested in what he writes. The poetry is just so clever.

[Ryan Reynolds]

When he's writing his poems or his notes for Lily, you know, who's he writing with? As I can imagine, some of that's pretty weird to do with your mom.

[Libby]

Mostly with his therapist. Autonomy is very important to John Paul. There's a lot of private things that they discuss discuss that I don't even need to know about. His therapist asked permission and they just say, can this be shared with your mother?

[Ryan Reynolds]

One of the poems John Paul allowed his mother to see is one of her favorites and it's Lily's favorite poem as well.

[John Paul]

And here's the manatees and me are similar in how we interact with our friends. Making playful contact with those we love is our gentle secret. Having such large hearts may explain our needs need for such big bodies.

[Ryan Reynolds]

And John Paul's heart and his love for Lily are so big.

[Libby]

He's a hopeless romantic. He always says he wants everything he does for Lily to be given with candy and flowers. That's what he likes to do for her.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Not only is Libby an awesome person, she's just an awesome mom and she tries to help her son have normal and cool hangout times with his girlfriend. She either gives them space or she hires a young caregiver to be with them instead of her.

[Libby]

I like to hire young caregivers that are a lot of fun and cool because he and Lily want their time just to be together without me or Lily's mom. That's not cool. That's not fun.

[Ryan Reynolds]

At the end of one of these dates, the therapist asked John Paul and Lily if there were any final words they wanted to say to one another and this is what they a lot.

[Scott]

I love you.

[John Paul]

I love you too Lily.

[Scott]

I'm happy we got to spend today alone same.

[John Paul]

It's the best.

[Scott]

I wish we could find more days like this.

[John Paul]

Me too.

[Scott]

My love, how is your family doing?

[John Paul]

They are annoying but good. How about yours?

[Scott]

Lol. You're so funny.

[John Paul]

Thanks my love. I try for you.

[Scott]

You make me so happy.

[Ryan Reynolds]

When I received this exchange, I wrote to Lily and her dad via text message and asked why she needed to ask about John Paul's family. Wouldn't she already know the answer to that if they're speaking speaking mind to mind. This is what Lily wrote back. I love that you're being mindful of thoughts of skeptics and you are right to think that not all questions are necessary to ask. While I did know the answers, our conversation was being helped not through mind to mind communication, but through a spelling partner. So it seemed totally normal to ask this. And then her dad, Scott, followed up with his own text saying, it's almost like they let us in on these little conversations for our benefit, not theirs.

[Libby]

Everyone loves their relationship in the autism community because we all understand autism and we understand our kids. But for other people, the comment that always drives me nuts is, you leave them alone together. Because first of all, it doesn't presume competence. Neither one of them are sexual deviants. He's not going to attack her. He adores her. And their relationship is on such a different level than what maybe a neurotypical relationship looks like. It's more hand holding and little kisses. There's so much motor planning that has to go into the other stuff. That has never been a concern of mine.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Knowing how important consent is. I wanted to get Lily's thoughts on how she and John Paul deepen their bond. And this is what she said.

[Scott]

Most of the time, we would communicate mind to mind and we shared everything about ourselves. We would hold hands and he would be super playful.

[Ryan Reynolds]

My next question for Lily was whether or not telepathic communication gave her a deeper bond with John Paul.

[Scott]

Of course, it allows us to make all our hopes and dreams known to each other.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Libby shared how this might look when the two of them are hanging out.

[Libby]

Lily might be on a whole separate floor and John Paul is somewhere else. But there is communication going and occasionally they may cross paths and high five or something. But at the end of the time when Lily goes home, John Paul might spell, that was great. That was a fun. That was a fun date or something like that. Because for them, they have been communicating the whole time. We, we just can't hear it and it doesn't make sense to us, but it makes sense to, to them.

[Ryan Reynolds]

I was excited to get Lily's parents take on telepathy because they just found out about all of this in the past year and they didn't know about telepathy quite simply because they just never asked about it.

[Karen]

There's so much we still haven't asked and haven't had conversations about. Just like any of your other friends.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Which is completely true. It would never cross my mind to ask my kids or my friends if they had a knack for ESP or telepathy. And when you're relying on spelling to communicate thoughts, it's even less likely that something like this will come up.

[Karen]

For example, Lily knew all kinds of languages. We didn't know it because we didn't Ask. She took a Spanish class and the teacher was a native Spanish speaker. And she said, lily knows more Spanish than my kids. But we didn't know that, you know what I mean? And until we started to ask her, how many languages do you know when it's kind of been the same with telepathy and probably with other families too. They might just not have asked yet.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Now that they feel clued into the telepathy phenomenon, I've asked if they've discussed it with other families.

[Lily]

It's definitely out there. You know, in more hushed tones, like you talk about this, kind of making little mention like ESP or telepathy. And everyone was like, oh, yeah, they experience the same thing, that they know that their child reads their minds.

[Ryan Reynolds]

There's a lot to unpack here. Lily's mom brought up the fact that Lily knows multiple languages. This is actually a savant skill. And I'll have Dr. Diane Powell weigh in on this shortly. The next thing to touch on is very important, and it's the fact that telepathy is quietly validated once it's brought up amongst other spelling families. But there's an understanding, even an effort to keep the information quiet.

[Lily]

You know, gatekeeping is a big topic, you know, right now. How are we limiting our non speakers? Even sometimes our. The greatest allies and supporters and people that advocated can also be acting as gatekeepers.

[Ryan Reynolds]

I appreciate the nuance that Scott is employing here because the topic he's referencing is fragile. There are gatekeepers in the spelling community who ask parents not to speak about telepathy. The reason why comes back to the presumption of competence. There is a deep fear that if it becomes known that telepathy is common amongst spellers, that society won't think spellers have their own thoughts and thus it won't be necessary to educate them and give them resources. And I kind of understand the fear, but I also think it's preemptively misguided. There are non speakers out there composing music, creating art, writing poems, speaking languages, and studying topics their parents just don't know anything about. So obviously hearing thoughts does not mean you don't have your own. I hear people talking to me all the time. That doesn't mean I don't have my own thoughts or my own words. We'll dive into this in depth in future episodes because the mention of telepathy is stamped out at every turn. Posts are deleted on community Facebook pages, Wikipedia pages have been edited, and parents are gently silenced when they bring up the topic at events.

[Lily]

I think the More speller stories get out unfiltered. I think it'll change.

[Ryan Reynolds]

It must be frustrating for parents because it seems like you're waging a war on two fronts, right? I mean, first, it's like with the school system and medical system and society at large to be like, look, our kids are in there, and when they're spelling, they're actually using their voice. And then the second war is almost like internally, where the parents who realize the telepathy is happening don't want to be told not to mention it, because that's a major component to the experience of your children. And it's like, maybe we need to be utilizing this in some way to help them engage in society and thrive. What's going to change all this?

[Lily]

I asked Lily at one point what she thought would turn the tide, whether it be, like, studies and academic work, and she's like, no, just pure numbers. Once the number of spellers reaches a critical mass, when enough people have personal experience seeing it with their own eyes, that's when sea change is going to happen.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Which is why everyone involved in this podcast is risking their reputations and even their careers to go public. We all want to be part of the sea change. Toward the end of the day in Atlanta, we went downstairs and reconnected with Dr. Diane. She has spent the entire afternoon doing more telepathy tests with Houston and Katie and collecting various types of data. Dr. Diane is well versed in the two topics that just came up, non speakers who happen to know various languages and the frustration around the crushing power of gatekeeping. I first want to share her thoughts on people who know languages or other things that they haven't been taught, because those are called savant skills. And one of Dr. Dayan's primary theses is that telepathy should be considered a savant skill.

[Katie]

Savant syndrome is when someone is able to do something, knows something, that is not explainable by the traditional ways of acquiring knowledge. You don't have to be autistic to be a savant. Although about 10% of people who are autistic are savants. The savant skills include calendar calculation, mathematical savants, musical savants, foreign language hyperlexia, prime number generation.

[Ryan Reynolds]

A famous math savant named Daniel Temmet could do advanced math calculations in his head from the time he was 4, and he won an international contest for reciting the number PI to the longest digit.

[Libby]

It's a number with no pattern that.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Seems to be infinite.

[Libby]

Daniel reckoned he could reel off the first 22 and a half thousand decimal places without a mistake.

[John Paul]

1-4159-2653-5882-0974-9442-3648-0881-0925, 903-469, 085-77-806995.

[Katie]

He recited it to over 22,000 digits. It wasn't really that he memorized it. It's that he would literally see a, almost like a ticker tape parade of different colors and shapes moving across his vision. He has synesthesia, and synesthesia is when you pair two senses together, such as seeing color, when you hear a sound. And so he knew what each one of those colors and shapes represented in terms of numbers. And so he would just be reading it in this, his visual space out here.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Remember this idea that humans might be tapping into consciousness instead of creating it? This will be explored more as season one unfolds. Quickly acquiring languages without being exposed to them is another savant skill, one that many non speakers seem to obtain. I remember being shocked when I was with Mia, who you met in episode one, because sometimes I'd ask a question to her through the translator and Mia would write it back in English. Dr. Diane worked with another autistic boy in California named Ramses.

[Katie]

And Ramses was able to read eight different languages at the age of two.

[Ryan Reynolds]

And not just your typical romance languages.

[Katie]

He knew Arabic and Hindi and Hebrew, and he knew some Japanese. He knew Russian.

[Ryan Reynolds]

That's Ramses singing in Arabic. His mom speaks Spanish. From Dr. Powell's point of view, studying savant skills is an opportunity to study the very origins of consciousness.

[Katie]

Savant syndrome really stood out to me because it can't be explained by the materialist model that, that we have in mainstream medicine.

[Ryan Reynolds]

We talked about materialism in episode one. Materialists believe that consciousness is based in the brain. So all of our feelings and thoughts and convictions are based on, you know, neurons firing up there in the gray matter. But savant syndrome challenges this, because how can you be great at calculus or piano or various languages if you haven't been taught them? So this might mean consciousness comes from somewhere else.

[Katie]

And I also knew that savant syndrome was widely accepted among neurologists and scientists as a real phenomena, that there are these people, they're rare, but there are these people that have been reported in history for hundreds of years. You can't just discard that. If they have existed, then you have to be able to explain them.

[Ryan Reynolds]

And this is how everything ties back to telepathy.

[Katie]

When I thought about savant syndrome, I thought that is so similar to what we call ESP or extrasensory perception, because.

[Ryan Reynolds]

ESP means you know, things you haven't been taught via your five traditional senses.

[Katie]

I think it's really a mistake by materialism to accept the one and then to say the other is pseudoscience.

[Ryan Reynolds]

She makes a great point. Materialists accept that traditional savant skills exist even though we can't explain how or why they occur. So why is an extrasensory perception like telepathy dismissed? Because we can't yet explain how it occurs.

[Katie]

Anybody who's trying to study things like precognition or telepathy that they are engaging in quackery. I went back into the literature about savants, and I discovered someone named Bernie Rimlin. And he was somebody who founded an autism research center in San Diego. He evaluated thousands of children, and lo and behold, in his writings, he said that ESP is a savant skill. And so I've been working from the premise that we need to include ESP in a savant skill. I would love to change how the ESP skills are considered and to have them considered savant skills along where they belong.

[Ryan Reynolds]

And when it comes to gatekeeping, scientists face it just as harshly as the parents do. When Dr. Diane Hennessy Powell published her book the ESP Enigma, the medical board fined her and revoked her license without even reading it. The mere mention of ESP was so taboo that she paid the price before anyone considered the science behind her work. Only after they reviewed her research was her license reinstated. But the damage was done. And you can understand why scientists, just like parents, stay silent. Lily's dad, Scott, is a radiologist, so he has a foot in the world of science and in the world of parenthood. I wanted to know how he's reconciled the unbelievable claims of telepathy with his deep academic background being a radiologist.

[Lily]

If we can make a machine that can send a radio wave, an electromagnetic pulse, into someone's body and alter the alignment of their protons and then listen to the signal that it makes when those protons realign and run it through a computer and make a picture out of it, you know, we can create that machine. What can our minds do? Can our minds tune into frequencies and pick up signals? It's not outside the realm of possibility.

[Ryan Reynolds]

We wrapped up our day in Atlanta with more conclusive telepathy tests and a bit more information about the Hill. John Paul was actually on it a ton this afternoon, more than normal. So before leaving, we asked him why.

[Libby]

Come over here, buddy. We're Going to ask some questions. Kai wanted to know how many people typically are on the hill. How many have been on the Hill today? 1-78-1789. Is that correct? Yes. Wow. So that's a lot.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Are there usually thousands?

[Libby]

Are there thousands? Typically and no.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Why are there so many today?

[Libby]

Why so many today? B and E C A N U.

[Ryan Reynolds]

N. John Paul is using a board with stencil letters kind of punched out of it. And he uses a pencil to push through each letter as he spells. And Libby holds the board nice and steady and I hate even needing to say this out loud, but she doesn't touch his wrist or his hand or any part of his body as he's.

[Libby]

Writing because of the documentary.

[Ryan Reynolds]

He then spells, they are all excited about it.

[Libby]

Why are they excited about it?

[Ryan Reynolds]

B, B C. As John Paul types out each word, Libby repeats it so we don't lose track of the sentence.

[Libby]

This will hopefully change the P E R C E P T I perception, he wrote.

[Ryan Reynolds]

This will hopefully change the perception people have regarding autistics.

[Libby]

Is there any more you want to say?

[Ryan Reynolds]

Yes.

[Libby]

All done.

[Ryan Reynolds]

The hill is both fascinating and impossible to fully grasp. My understanding of it didn't form in just one visit. This journey into Pandora's box demands time, patience and open minded skepticism. And after witnessing the honesty and candor of non speakers, I don't doubt them. My doubt lies in the world that I thought I knew, which now reveals itself to be something entirely different. Next week the stakes rise and this astonishing world becomes even more extraordinary. As we meet the third group whose silenced the teachers, it suddenly dawned on.

[Libby]

Me these little kids are communicating with each other through telepathy.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Clearly some kind of telepathy.

[Jeff Tarrant]

Mind readings.

[Libby]

Something's definitely going on there.

[Ryan Reynolds]

I was like, you're gonna think I'm crazy, but your kid can read my mind. It is an enigma and we're really.

[Libby]

Really at the beginning stages of trying to understand it.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Teachers, spelling coaches and therapists are often the first to witness telepathy in non speakers. And in many cases, they're more attuned to harnessing these abilities than the parents. Why? Join me next week as we dive deeper into the untold stories of those who witness the extraordinary in their classrooms every day, yet feel forced to stay silent. This is the Telepathy tapes and the time for silence is over. A very special thanks to my incredible collaborator and producer, Jen Mirza, who created all music and sound effects for this episode of the Telepathy Tapes. Remember that you can review some of the tests and see some of the film recordings on our website thetelepathytapes.com thank you so much for tuning in and join us next week. As this world expands and deepens, you.

[Libby]

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