B (3:36)

Everyone, how are you?

C (3:38)

Hi, is that Kai?

B (3:40)

Yes, this is Kai.

C (3:41)

Hi, I'm Anita, as you know and that's my Dr. Brian.

B (3:45)

Oh, it's so great to meet you both. So I guess starting at the beginning, I think it makes sense for you. Well, why don't you introduce yourself where you live, you know, what you do for a living, that type of thing, you know. Do you, do you have a family who are the most significant people in your life? So why don't we start there?

A (4:00)

Who, who are you?

B (4:01)

Anita.

C (4:02)

My name's Anita Moorjani and currently I live in California in Redondo beach with my husband and he is basically everything to me. He's my family. I have a brother and his family, but they don't live here in California. And I moved here about 10 years ago because my life changed quite dramatically. I used to live in Hong Kong, I was brought up in Hong Kong. I was born in Singap, brought up in Hong Kong and we lived a regular life. I was married to my husband Danny and then I was diagnosed with cancer with LYMPHOMA And I dealt with it for a period of about four years. A lot of the time I was resistant to conventional medicine. But over a period of four years, there were times when I got better, and then there were times when I would deteriorate. But in 2006, after I had dealt with it for these four years, in February of 2006, I reached end stage of the cancer. The doctors told me it was end stage. It was Hodgkin's lymphoma. But by that point, my body was completely emaciated. I weighed about 85 pounds. My lungs were filled with fluid. And because my lungs were filled with fluid, I couldn't lie flat. If I lay flat, I would choke on my own fluid. I had tumors throughout my lymphatic system from the base of my skull, all around my neck, under my arms, in my chest, all the way down to my abdomen. Many of these tumors were the size of golf balls. And Dr. Brian Walker, who's here today, was my physician at the time. And so he saw me go through this. He saw me looking like that. My body had stopped absorbing nutrition. And because it had stopped absorbing nutrition, my muscles were completely atrophied, couldn't walk. My mobility came in the form of a wheelchair. And on February 2, the doctors told my family that these were my final hours, and I went into a coma.

B (6:22)

Brian, are you able to share how you assessed Anita's condition at the time? You know, was she in the final stages from what you remember?

D (6:30)

The story started about two years ago when Danny came to me and said, would you look after my wife? I said, yes, no trouble at all. There's only one condition. He said, what's that? You can't mention the cancer. Okay, so here I am with a lady who's got lymphoma and needs referral to an oncologist for her management for chemotherapy? Nope, not a bit of that. I wasn't able to speak about that. Open questions, of course, to invite Anita to accept that this needs to the next step. But, no, this is absolutely not possible. Fear was predominant there. And so I was left with. The reason I was asked was because of my abilities in natural medicine. So doing all kinds of things, helping the immune system, which of course, is an important thing for cancer cancer management. Cancer is, in fact, a failure of the immune system to respond to what every one of us has every day. And so we went through that, and I was accompanying her in this journey, supporting and of course, asking open questions every now and then. You know, how may this better be managed. Would you wonder about any other specialists? No. And so that fluid in the lungs wasn't one episode, it was several episodes. Admitted at a hospital was sucking the fluid off. A lot of fun from a doctor's point of view. But you're saying here, this is here getting worse and worse. Lymph nodes were spreading. There was enlargement of the neck, of the cachectia. The body was vanishing her nutrition. You can't keep up with that because the cancer is consuming all of your vitality. And so I remember the last week of her life, she said to me, brian, she says, I can't. I can't anymore. I give up. And that was when I was able to refer to an oncologist. And so she was taken in with the blue light into hospital in a terminal state. Not just the whole body consumed by cancer, the spleen, the lymph nodes, everything was, was broken, but also multi organ system failure. You don't survive that.

B (8:19)

Okay, Anita, so you're brought into the hospital and everyone around you is thinking, this is going to be your final day, it sounds like.

A (8:27)

So what happened next for you?

C (8:29)

So I was in a coma as far as everyone else was concerned. I didn't realize I was in a coma because I was aware of everything that was happening around me, everything that was happening around my body. And I could. I had what I would call almost like 360 degree peripheral vision. And I wasn't really aware. I didn't really understand what was going on, but it was like I had left my body. And I clearly remember seeing or being aware that my family, my mom, my husband, they were really distraught. And I remember my mom talking to Brian and saying to him that isn't there anything like she was really distraught and asking him what else could be done. Now, Brian was not my oncologist. Someone else was. But my mom knew Brian. We all did. He was our family doctor. Everybody was more familiar with him than with our oncologist. So everybody in my family were talking to him and keeping him in the loop. But I remember clearly Brian being really uncomfortable and awkward because he knew that I was dying and he wasn't able to tell my mom that. And I was aware of this. I could hear every word of what they were saying. And I could hear my oncologist who was treating me telling my husband Danny, that I wasn't even going to make it through the night, that I probably wouldn't be here after 24 hours. And I could hear and see all of it. But more Than that. I could feel what everybody was feeling. I could feel the hopelessness. I could feel their emotions. I could feel my mom being very distressed and distraught. I could feel Danny just trying to do everything he could to save my life and Brian as well. And so here I am, hearing, seeing, but not with physical eyes or ears. It was like I was just. It was all encompassing. There's no words to describe it. And then it was as though I was expanding. And I started to become aware that the pain was gone. And all the fear I had been feeling all this time was gone. So the last few years had been filled with pain. But more than any pain, any physical pain and discomfort was the fear. I had feared the cancer. Cancer. I had feared the treatment for cancer. I had feared death. All that fear was just gone. And I noticed that I was feeling incredible and light and free and powerful and limitless. And I started to become that I wasn't my body anymore. And my body was lying on the bed. Physically, it was still there on the bed, but it looked so small and insignificant and lifeless compared to how I was now feeling. And I wanted my family to know that I'm not suffering anymore. You don't have to be so distraught. I'm okay. But I couldn't communicate with them. There was no way because I had no biology, no vocal cords, nothing. So I wasn't able to communicate with them. And then I started to go deeper and deeper, for want of a better word, into that realm, into that expansion. And it was what I would call a state of clarity. It has been, after the fact, after I came back and shared it, it has been called a near death experience. But for all intents and purposes, while I was in that state and no longer felt my body, I just felt like I was in this state of clarity where I was able to see my every step of my life and I was able to understand how it was that I had got sick, why it was that I had got sick. I was able to understand how all the different thoughts and decisions and choices I had made through my life had contributed to me lying on that hospital bed dying.

B (12:55)

What were some of those? I mean, you know, because I think that's a question a lot of people wonder, right? Is why did I get sick? Or why am I sick? What were the things that you were having clarity around regarding what led to your illness?

C (13:06)

So there were a lot of things that, when I put them into words, it's long and convoluted. But when I was in that state, it's like this big light bulb. It's like you understand it right away. It's like. And it was a combination of me never valuing myself, never loving myself, living a life based on fear. In other words, every choice and decision I had made in my life came from a place of fear and not from a place of love. In other words, I would choose to do the things out of a fear of not being accepted, a fear of being shamed. So in other words, I would do things to alleviate fear as opposed to do things that I love to do. For example, I'm talking about things like taking a job because it paid more money even though I didn't like the job, as opposed to going for something I love to do, being with people that I didn't really want to be with, but I would be with them because I was afraid that I would get criticized or not accepted if I wasn't being with them. And this led to like, a lot of choices in my life. Everything was done from a place of fear. And here's a big one. I, I feared illness, I feared cancer, I feared death, I feared religion, the afterlife, what happens when we die. So everything I did in my life was not because I loved my life and I loved my body or I wanted to live long, but it was because I feared death or I feared illness. I ate healthy because I feared illness, not because I loved my body and valued myself and wanted to put healthy foods in my body. I ate. I used to have all these foods with anti cancer properties, but I ate them because I feared cancer. So everything I did was because I feared it. And when I was on that side, it was like this big opening of oh, we're supposed to live a life of joy. We're supposed to choose what fills our heart and what brings us joy, not choose from a place of a fear of the negative or a fear of death or a fear of illness or a fear of being shamed. And all these things. That was a big part of it.

A (15:35)

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B (16:56)

You saw Danny in the room or was he talking to your family in like the waiting room?

C (17:01)

So Danny was in the room at first and then I saw him talking to the doctor who said to him that she's not going to make it through the night. Something along those lines, like she's not going to make it it through the next 24 hours. And I clearly saw him talking to the doctor about that. And then Danny was in the room with me and holding my hand and he was just by my side. And then I saw my brother arriving later. And this is the strange part, which again, I have no way of proving this, but. But my brother was in India and this was happening to me in Hong Kong. I actually saw my brother rushing to get on a flight to get to me before I died because he was hearing what was going on. He didn't know that I was that critical in that moment because I tanked very quickly in the last few days. And I saw him rushing to get on this flight and I actually thought to myself, and these words don't seem to fit because I was not my body, I was bigger than my body. But I did think to myself, I have to keep my body alive at least until he gets here because he'll be distraught if he flies all the way here and I'm already dead. I even remember thinking that. And I was aware he was on the plane and I was in the coma for about 30 hours. And a lot happened when I was there because I started to become aware and of my dad who had died 10 years prior. And my dad started to. It was as though my dad was there to Help me. And. But it felt like I was just surrounded by this feeling of just unconditional love. So I wasn't just aware of what was physically happening around my body. I was aware that my organs were shutting down. I was aware that the doctors were telling my family that my organs were shutting down and my kidneys had already shut down. Was aware of all of that, but something a lot more than that. And I felt that I was being helped by other beings, other spirit beings. And I was familiar with some of them. And one of them was my dad. And what was interesting with the encounter with my dad, who had died 10 years prior, is that. But I didn't have a good relationship with him when he was alive. He was the one that instilled fear in me in my whole life. Fear of not being good enough. He was the one that used to shame me. And I never met his expectations my whole life. I've always felt I used to work really hard to get his approval, but I never did. And so I believe I became that person. A lot of it is because of the conditioning from my dad, but here I was. And it's funny, even though we don't have a physical body, it's like we recognized each other and you don't exchange words. It's like you merge and you know everything the other person wants you to know. And all I felt from my dad was pure, unconditional love. And he wanted me to know that he had never meant to hurt me. It was from the limitations of being here in the physical and the limitations of. Of the culture he was brought up in. And he wanted me to know all of that. And I'm getting goosebumps as I'm sharing this as well, because it makes me very emotional to share that. But that felt really, really good to me. And he also wanted me to know that it wasn't my time to cross over and that I was now here in this spiritual realm, for want of a better word or this consciousness state. He wanted me to know that I had reached a point where I would soon have to make a decision as to whether I wanted to come back into my physical body or not. And no part of me wanted to come back because it was so beautiful there. And I felt so good. I felt so incredible because there was no more fear, no more pain. And. And I knew my family had been suffering here and I had been suffering. I didn't see any good reason to come back. But my dad continued to imprint into me that now that I know the truth of why I got sick and the truth of who I really am, that my body would heal. The other thing I want to say also is that what I noticed is a lot of the cultural conditioning I was brought up with was to do with my culture, to do with being a Hindu woman at that time. But when we are without our physical bodies, we're also without our race, our religion, our culture, our gender. We're without all of this. So it was my dad without all of this baggage and me without all of this baggage. And so it was just a really beautiful connection of just pure love. And my dad wanted me to know that now that I know all of this, that my body would heal. And all I had to do was go and live my life fearlessly. That's all. And interestingly, I started to get visions of what my life would look like years down the road. And one of the visions I got was that I would be on stage speaking to hundreds, thousands of people. And I was never a speaker before. I was never an author. I was extremely shy and meek and brought up by a dad that repressed me and made me very fearful. This would have been the furthest thing from what I was able to do or what I ever believed I was capable of doing, standing on stage, addressing thousands of people. And in this vision, I didn't even know what I was talking to them about. I couldn't even imagine something like that. But it was like I was being given the message that, this is what's in store for you. You have to go back. And I wanted to know, how am I going to achieve that? Like me, I'm a nobody. How am I going to achieve or attain that? And the message that kept coming from my dad is, you don't have to do anything. You just have to live your life fearlessly, be yourself fearlessly, and this will unfold for you. And that's when I started to come out of the coma. And it was my dad who had instilled fear in me throughout my life, but it was my dad who released me from that fear in death.

B (24:20)

It's amazing. And, Danny, I'd love for you to just, like, corroborate some of the things that Anita was saying that she was feeling or seeing in the coma with you holding her hand and talking to the doctors. Can you talk from your perspective? I mean, what I'd love to hear, actually, is, like, when you woke up, Anita, like, what did you say to Dani? Or even to you, Dr. Walker? And what, like, were you flabbergasted because Any of it was true.

E (24:47)

Anita opened her eyes, and there I was, bouncing on tippy toe in glee. Anita came up, and her eyes opened up, and the first thing she said is, I'm going to be fine. And, you know, you can understand that with all that oxygen deprivation, all of the cancer rummaging through Anita's system, it's very, very possible that some of that would have affected cognitive function. So I was taking it very, very lightly until Anita told me about something that she should not, not have known about. Now, Anita was in a private room. It was quite a large room. It had a nice, big, thick wooden door, I'd say maybe about an inch, inch and a half thick. Now, Anita's bed was something like 8ft away from that door. And I was having this conversation with the senior oncologist at the nurses station. I would say it must have been at least 30 or possibly 40 yards away from the door. So there is no way that anybody, even with impeccable hearing, would have been able to hear that. Yet Anita was recounting to me exactly word for word the conversation that I had with the lead oncologist. And that when I thought, aha, there is something more going on right here. And so any thoughts I had about oxygen deprivation, brain damage, hallucination, they simply evaporated right there and right then. And that was the confirmation that there's something more that happened here.

B (26:33)

So just to confirm it sounds like Anita, you heard and were able to accurately relay the exact conversation that was happening at the nurse's station between Danny.

C (26:43)

And the nurses and the oncologist himself, Dr. Chan. So he was having this conversation with Danny, and I heard it word for word and relayed it to Danny, which he was shocked. And then he believed me, that I was going to be fine. The other thing I remember saying is I was, like, looking around the room, and I was still, like, a little bit discombobulated. And I was looking around, and I was saying, dad is here. Dad is here. Dad says, it's not my time. I'm going to be fine. And I just kept saying that over and over. And my brother, who I'd seen on the plane from that side, he arrived. He was standing right there. My brother was there. My mom was there, Danny was there. And I said, dad is here. And dad says, it's not my time. And so they didn't know what to make of it. I recalled them then calling the doctor, and he walked in the room, not Dr. Walker, but another doctor who had only started treating me after I Went into the coma. I'd never seen him before. He walked into the room and I referred to him by name. And he was really surprised. He said, how do you know my name? And I said to him, aren't you the doctor that took fluid out of my lungs this morning? And he said, yes, but you were in the coma at that time. There's no way you could have seen me. Your eyes were closed. But he then told my family not to raise their hopes because I was still very, very critical. And he said, you know, sometimes patients may come out of the coma before they actually die. So he left the room. And that's when I started to say to Danny, why was he so surprised that I recognized him? And, yeah, they were all just really surprised that I was aware of everything that was happening.

B (28:40)

So. And tell me what you saw in the coma from that moment. Like, you saw this doctor come in and how did you know his name? And you saw him helping relieve fluid from your lungs?

C (28:49)

Yes. So what happened is that my breathing, the breathing on my physical body was getting very labored because I was. I was lying down and the liquid was coming up and it was choking me. Now I was connected to all these tubes. I had a food tube for nutrition. I had the heart rate monitor and the oxygen tube. I had all these tubes. And then I was. I. Suddenly my breathing got very, very labored. And Danny noticed it, and he noticed that I was struggling to take a breath. And he noticed it. It and started to ring the bell and started to call the nurses. And the nurses came and he said, she's not breathing. She's going to die if she can't take a breath, you know. And he wanted them to relieve my breathing to keep me alive. And so they said, we'll go and call the doctor. And I remember it actually took a while. And I remember he kept calling them, saying, where is he? Where is he? And then when the doctor finally came, the doctor turned my body around and into my back. They put a needle and they took out the fluid from my lungs. And I was aware of all that, which they were all really shocked because to them it looked like I was out cold, like nobody was there.

B (30:07)

And Danny, is that true that it took a long time? Like, from your recollection, is that what happened?

E (30:13)

It took something like 45 to 60 minutes for the doctor to actually come to put it into context. It was something like three o' clock in the morning. So they did have to wake him and he did have to come from home into the hospital. Room. But, yes, he did come in. He did turn a needle onto her side. He did insert a needle into her back to perform the draining of the fluid.

A (30:40)

Wow.

B (30:41)

And then, Danny, from your recollection, so when he walked in the next day, were you there? And can you explain from what you saw when she recognized him and how he reacted?

E (30:49)

Imagine if somebody had met you in a. In a. In a previous life and came up to you and told you, you know, everything about yourself. It was very, very much that type of reaction. You know, it was very, very much a case of, like, no, we have never met before. It's impossible for you to know me. And, you know, truly, there was a great deal of confusion on his face as to, like, how do you even know my name?

D (31:13)

Wow.

B (31:14)

Was there any other elements of your. Your experience, Anita? That is. I guess that's vertical perception, right? Where you see something from that proves to be true. Like, was there anything from the environment, maybe beyond the hospital walls or beyond that room that you saw or, you know, any other things that really. That really struck people when you came back?

C (31:33)

So one of the things was my brother getting on the plane, because apparently there was no way for me to know. I mean, no one in my family, no one had told me that he was on his way. When I opened my eyes, and he was one of the people standing there. And, you know, and Danny was saying that, look, your brother's here. Look, your brother's here as well. I said, I know. I saw him. I saw him get on the plane. He was really surprised because no one had told me that he was coming. And then I was saying to him that I saw you and you were rushing. And then he said that. He said that even before anyone told him that I was critical and to get to me, he already got a hit that I was critical and was in my last hours, an intuitive hit himself. And he started to tell his family, I'm going. I'm going to the airport. I need to be with her. And they were saying, why? Did you get news from Hong Kong? And he said, no, I just feel I need to be there. What am I doing sitting here? And while he was on his way to the airport, that's when he got the call from my family to come. Wow.

B (32:44)

Okay. So then let's talk about the healing that came next. So I guess, Brian, are you able to kind of walk us through that? What did you see happen in Anita's body? And is there, you know, a medical explanation for it?

D (32:57)

Well, the bottom line, first of all, there's no medical explanation for it. I strove very mightily to find an explanation. I recall Danny came in to see me about three days later at my clinic. And I was expecting to give the grieving widower conversation, supporting a brother. The look on his face was one of utter amazement. And what the hell just happened? He'd been stunned, still stunned. And he looked at me and he says, brian, he says, you'll never guess what happened. And so I sat back and listened and whoa. Okay, so the story was told, not possible, but she was still critically ill. And so. Okay, fine. So six weeks later, Anita comes in. She survived. And she comes in with exactly the same look on her face as Danny. What happened is complete. This. How do you make sense of this? This should not have happened. I was dead and I'm here now and she was fine. There are things yet to be done, of course, following on. But she was cured and the cancer had all gone. Now that's not possible. Well, not medically possible. This doesn't happen. So how do you. A body completely ravaged with cancer, lymph nodes everywhere, the spleen absorbed. How do you suddenly go from that to nothing? So I couldn't explain that. So it just take it as it comes. There we are. It's just unexplainable.

A (34:25)

In the next episode of the Talk Tracks, we'll hear how Anita's near death experience caused her to heal at a miraculous rate. How the visions from her NDE unfolded in her life after, and how her near death experience opened up the channel for her intuition in ways that had been closed off to her before. That's it for this episode of the Talk Tracks, but new episodes will be released every Wednesday, so stay tuned as we work to unravel all the threads, even the veiled ones that knit together our reality. And please remember to stay kind, stay curious, and that being a true skeptic requires an open mind. Thank you to my amazing collaborators. Original music by Rachel Cantu and opening and closing music by Elizabeth pw. Original logo and cover art by Ben Kendora. Design. I want to thank our producers, Jill Pichesnik and Kathryn Ellis. Our associate producer is Selena Kennedy.

B (35:13)

The audio mix and finishing by Sarah Ma.

A (35:15)

And I'm Kai Dickens, your executive producer, writer and host.