S2E21: Talk Tracks Season 2 Episode 10: Elizabeth Gilbert on Letters from Love: Is love conscious and what does it want us to know?

Summary

The Telepathy Tapes – Talk Tracks S2E10:

Elizabeth Gilbert on Letters from Love: Is love conscious and what does it want us to know?
Podcast Host: Kai Dickens | Guest: Elizabeth Gilbert | Date: March 18, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode explores Elizabeth Gilbert’s transformative spiritual and creative practice, “Letters from Love”, an intuitive writing approach where people compose letters to themselves from the universal force of unconditional love. Host Kai Dickens and Gilbert dive into the origins and impact of this practice, its recurring themes, its therapeutic aspects, its unique accessibility, and the difference between the voices of Love and Creativity. The conversation is intimate, vulnerable, and philosophical, inviting listeners to rethink the reality of presence, worthiness, and the unseen world.

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Key Insights & Discussion Points

1. The Origin of Letters from Love

• Elizabeth Gilbert’s First Experience
  • At her lowest point (during her first divorce, early 30s), Gilbert encounters a clear inner voice instructing her to write the words she always wished to hear.
  • Quote:
    “This voice came to me... and it said, get out of bed and get a notebook and write the words you have always longed to hear somebody say to you.” – Elizabeth Gilbert (03:02)
  • The first response:
    “I’m right here. I’m right here, which I now have tattooed on my chest...” – Elizabeth Gilbert (03:41)

2. What Is “Letters from Love” – The Practice

• A regular intuitive/free-writing exercise: write a letter from the voice of unconditional love, addressed to yourself.
• Universally accessible—doesn't require poetic skill.
  • “If unconditional love existed, what would it want you to know?” – Elizabeth Gilbert (04:00)
• The message is consistent: nonjudgmental, gentle, reassuring.
• The process:
  • Start with an affectionate nickname. (“Honey Head” is Gilbert’s default.)
  • Prompt: “Dear Love, what would you have me know?”
  • “Don’t try to hear love, try to generate it. Imagine if there was unconditional love—what would that voice say?” – Elizabeth Gilbert (42:24)

3. Patterns in Letters from Love: Universality of the Message

• People from all backgrounds (intellectuals, atheists, those who never experienced love, etc.) naturally channel similar messages when attempting the exercise.
• Love is consistent:
  • “There’s nothing you can do to lose this love, and nothing you can do to gain this love.” – Elizabeth Gilbert (05:48)
  • “Most of them start with either I’m right here or we are right here... the very first thing is this deep reassurance that you are not alone and you have never been alone.” – Elizabeth Gilbert (09:17)
• Even severe trauma survivors can access this voice.
• Striking Excerpts from Letters (Read by Community & Guests):
  • “I’m with you always.” – Kemi Neckvapil (06:07)
  • “You already have it because you are it.” (06:12)
  • “Your striving meant nothing. To love, your being meant everything… you’re already so loved.” – Elizabeth Gilbert (15:38)
  • “Don’t worry, I got you. Not because you deserve it, mind you. Deserving has nothing to do with [it].” – Elizabeth Gilbert (15:55)
• The voice is distinguished by being non-demanding and infinitely patient, unlike creativity which can be demanding or insistent.

4. The Practice’s Emotional Impact and Vulnerability

• Dickens shares a personal letter and its cathartic effect: recounting moments at a dying aunt’s bedside, realizing love was present then and always.
  • “I stayed with you through the years as you replayed those jumble sounds again and again, listening with your mind, trying to solve them. And then one night, when you finally listened with your heart, they arrived whole.” – Kai Dickens (07:12)
• Vulnerability as the central challenge and benefit of the practice.
• The act can recall or introduce a memory of fundamental safety, acceptance, and childlike peace.
  • “Writing the letter from Love, I felt as though I could see myself wrapped up on a blanket… as though love was this presence in the room, loving me, cradling me.” – Kai Dickens (36:01)
• On surrender:
  • “Everyone is so stressed and tense, and that’s from trying to control what we can’t control. Surrender brings relief.” – Elizabeth Gilbert (13:22)

5. The Evolution and Direction of Letters

• In Gilbert’s practice, earlier letters were mainly about reassurance and unconditional acceptance.
• Over time, they became more instructive—as self-trust settled, “Love” began giving her gentle guidance.
  • “Now it’s: I do love you. And there’s a couple things I need you to do... but it’s less about doing and more about redirecting attention, releasing control.” – Elizabeth Gilbert (11:29, 12:36)

6. Barriers & Gendered Differences

• Men especially (even spiritual or compassionate ones) often resist or struggle with the practice, citing discomfort with self-acceptance or fear it would undercut their ambition.
  • “I know what Love is going to say… ‘you’re perfect the way you are.’ And I don’t want to hear that...” – Paraphrased by Elizabeth Gilbert (23:26)

7. Imagination vs. External Source

• Gilbert acknowledges that at first it might feel like “making it up”, but wonders if it matters:
  • “Does it matter if it’s only my imagination? Thank you for saving me from despair. It’s a question of which aspect of my mind I am going to listen to—the one telling me I’m doomed, or the one telling me that I’m loved no matter what.” – Elizabeth Gilbert (24:32)
• Over time, the voice felt external:
  • “I actually believe that it’s coming from outside of what I would call myself.” – Elizabeth Gilbert (24:32)

8. Love vs. Creativity: Different Forces

• Gilbert distinguishes Love and Creativity as distinct, though both may come from “the unseen”.
  • “Love has a specific fingerprint. Creativity can be very demanding… Love is very straightforward… Love doesn’t care. Love’s like, I don’t care if you do that or not. Creativity is insistent—‘you must make this work.’” – Elizabeth Gilbert (34:24, 35:12)
• Direct question & answer:
  • Q: “Does the download from creativity come from the same place as the download from love?”
    A: “No.” – Elizabeth Gilbert (32:46)
  • “The voice of love relaxes us… answers our biggest fundamental fear: am I worthy of my existence?” – Elizabeth Gilbert (34:24)

9. The Unseen World

• Letters from Love community responses frequently echo: “The unseen world is more real than what you call the real world.” (30:14-31:56)
• Notable excerpts:
  • “The unseen is almost all there is.”
  • “Everything you see, little sun, is evidence of what you don't see. Trust that everything you see is the visible evidence of the unseen world. Me. Love.”
  • “You are human. Let that be enough. You have your role, I have mine.” – Kemi Neckvapil (38:50)

10. Limits of Human Love; Infinite Nature of Universal Love

• “You can’t give love to everybody equally because that’s not your job. It is mine. I am bigger and more expansive than you’ll ever be. Give what love you can and know I will fill the places that you can’t.” – Kemi Neckvapil (38:50)
• Universal love does not expect us, as humans, to embody it constantly or perfectly.
  • “You are not unconditional love. That’s our job.” – Paraphrased from Kemi Neckvapil (39:19)
• “Those people who you can't love, we love them, so don't worry.” – Elizabeth Gilbert (40:12, 41:18)

11. Healing Childhood and Self-hatred

• For some, the exercise reconnects them with childhood feelings of safety and joy; for others, it introduces a never-before-felt sense of acceptance.
  • “You can experience it as reminding you of what you remember, or for the first time introducing you to something you never knew existed.” – Elizabeth Gilbert (41:18)
• Culturally, self-hatred is a Western epidemic, contrasted with Tibetan culture, which has no paradigm for one’s self being one’s enemy.
  • Dalai Lama anecdote: “Who is the person you hate? Me. I am the person I hate. And he was horrified.” (45:12)

12. A Democratic, Accessible Practice

• Gilbert encourages all to try it, moving away from guruism; “The age of the guru is ending. You don’t need a medium or an authority to do this. You can do this yourself.” (47:47)
• “You have access to all of this. And more and more people are awakening to that… the veil is getting thinner.” – Elizabeth Gilbert (47:47)

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How to Do a Letter from Love

Instructions from Elizabeth Gilbert (42:24-43:00):

• Start as an “imagination” exercise; don’t worry if it feels made up.
• Read words that open your heart (Mary Oliver, Hafiz, Rumi, or Whitman recommended).
• Write:
  • “Dear Love, what would you have me know?”
• Don’t overthink; write whatever message unconditional love would send you.
• Add a tender nickname for yourself.
• Repeat as needed (Gilbert does it near-daily).

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Memorable Quotes

• “The presence of love changes what cannot be changed into something that can be accepted.” – Elizabeth Gilbert (18:17)
• “Your striving meant nothing. To love, your being meant everything.” (15:38)
• “Does it matter if it’s only my imagination? …My despairing thoughts are also only my imagination.” – Elizabeth Gilbert (24:32)
• “You are not limitless, but I am. Give what love you can and know I will fill the places that you can't. You are human. Let that be enough. You have your role, I have mine.” – Kemi Neckvapil (38:50)

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Noteworthy Moments & Timestamps

• [03:02] — Gilbert’s first instruction to write herself a letter.
• [04:00] — Explaining intuitive writing/“download” from love.
• [09:17] — Common first phrase in Letters from Love: “I’m right here.”
• [13:22] — On surrender, control, and direction from love.
• [23:26] — Gendered resistance, a man’s reason for declining the practice.
• [24:32] — Imagination as a life-saving tool vs. mystical download.
• [30:14-31:56] — Multiple excerpts: “the unseen world is more real than what you call the real world.”
• [34:24] — Difference between love and creativity as inner voices.
• [38:50] — Kemi Neckvapil’s message: “You are human. Let that be enough.”
• [45:12] — Dalai Lama’s astonishment at Western self-hatred.

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Practical Takeaways

• Anyone can try this practice—start with imagination if you don’t “hear” a voice.
• The message of Love is almost always the same: you are loved, not alone, nothing required of you to deserve Love.
• Vulnerability is integral; discomfort is normal, especially for men.
• The practice helps people connect with a sense of presence, belonging, and ease, even for those with traumatic histories.
• Over time, messages evolve from comfort to gentle direction, but remain deeply accepting.

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Closing Thoughts

Elizabeth Gilbert’s “Letters from Love” offers a simple but profound method for connecting with a gentle, unconditional presence—whether encountered as an inner voice, act of imagination, or something more. The universality and consistency of this “download” across diverse lives and traumas hint at a force both deeply personal and possibly genuinely collective. As the episode closes, Twain reminds listeners that with practice and curiosity, everyone can touch this wisdom—no guru required.

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Listen if you seek: guidance for self-kindness, relief from existential doubt, healing from past hurts, or simply a poetic, practical spiritual exercise with community roots.

Transcript

[Kai Dickens]

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[Elizabeth Gilbert]

This voice came to me and it was incredibly clear and it said, get out of bed and get a notebook and write to yourself the words that you have always longed to hear somebody say to you. Just write it down to you.

[Kai Dickens]

Though that was the first time Liz engaged with the universal force of love, it wasn't the last. Today we'll be talking to her about her practice, letters from love that she's been using for over two decades to converse with the love in the universe.

[Elizabeth Gilbert]

It's a force and a source that is incredibly consistent, that's nonjudgmental, non, condemning, non controlling, deeply gentle and incredibly present.

[Kai Dickens]

The first time she wrote her own letter from love, the instructions were simple.

[Elizabeth Gilbert]

What do you need to hear that's going to get you through this? And the first thing it said was, I'm right here. I'm right here, which I now have tattooed on my chest because I think it's the most important thing.

[Kai Dickens]

The act itself is simple. You sit down and write a letter to yourself from love. In short, you're basically allowing a message from love to flow through you, to you.

[Elizabeth Gilbert]

This is intuitive writing. If you're downloading a message from the cosmos, from your intuition, from your heart, if unconditional love existed, what would it want you to know? Don't try to make this poetic. It actually doesn't work if you try to make it poetic.

[Kai Dickens]

And even though this may seem like a simple act, it can have a profound impact.

[Elizabeth Gilbert]

What we're doing here is that we are learning as a practice how to write to ourselves and speak to ourselves from a place of kind, loving, simple, often humorous affection. Rather than speaking to us in the voice of an evil, cruel, monstrous enemy, which is what the interior voice of so many of us has been and still at times can be.

[Kai Dickens]

What emerged 20 years ago from Liz's darkest moment has expanded to envelope a community of thousands as more and more people have joined her in writing these Letters From Love on Substack. And if you don't know what Substack is, it's an online platform which allows people to publish content and engage with their audience. Kind of like a blog.

[Elizabeth Gilbert]

It's on Substack because it's a safer place for people to be vulnerable. At least it is so far. I share a letter from Love every week that I've written to myself, and we invite somebody to come, risk doing this, to risk trying this, and then they write a letter and they read it, and then there's a comment section where people can write their own letters from Love and share them, and people respond to each other's and they've created friendship and community across that. Our little trademark is like kindest corner of the Internet, and it so far, absolutely has been.

[Kai Dickens]

And what's amazing is that as people from all walks of life wrote these letters, love had a similar message almost every time.

[Elizabeth Gilbert]

There's nothing you can do to lose this love, and there's nothing you can do to gain this love. Like, you didn't earn it, you can't lose it. It's your innate birthright. Wherever your life takes you, I'm going to be there.

[Kai Dickens]

We went through some of the recordings in the Letters From Love substack and the consistency in themes is striking. Here's just a few lines from various letters recorded by the people who wrote them.

[Kemi Neckvapil]

I'm with you always.

[Elizabeth Gilbert]

You know that I'm always here without conditions.

[Progressive Insurance Announcer]

You already have it because you are it.

[Elizabeth Gilbert]

I have been here and here I will stay.

[Kai Dickens]

And what's interesting is that, much like creativity, love can engage and work with all of us, but the two forces are very different. Later in the episode, we'll talk about how love and creativity act differently, treat us differently and want different things from us. Perhaps the most important takeaway, this is something we can all do, but that doesn't mean it's easy. And I know that from firsthand experience, because back in October, Liz asked me to write a letter from Love. And so I did. And it was one of the most vulnerable things I'd ever done. I wasn't entirely sure how I'd do it, but kind of like Liz's first letter, it just rushed through me. And this was months before our conversation today, and I had actually steered clear of reading or listening to any of the letters to avoid being influenced, because whatever Love was going to say to me, if it said anything at all. I wanted there to be nothing in my subconscious regarding what others had been told. But when talking to Liz, I was surprised by the themes that appeared in my letter and others. The letters that Liz has curated come from every walk of life. Intellectuals, atheists, people who consider themselves spiritual, some who don't, people who don't consider themselves creative or writers, and some, most remarkably, who've never experienced tenderness or even unconditional love in their lives. And what kind of shocked me about my letter is that it tended toward how the non physical world has gone through great lengths to demonstrate to me that I am unconditionally loved. And here's just a short excerpt from the middle of mine. I was there. That is the first thing. That is the last thing. That is the only thing you've ever needed to know. I was there. When you sat beside your dying aunt, begging her to speak. I gathered what remained of her and pushed it forward with all her might so she could press final words into your ear. It was a garbled triumph of sound. You did not understand the words, but thank you for telling her you did. I stayed with you through the years as you replayed those jumble sounds again and again, listening with your mind, trying to solve them. And then one night, when you finally listened with your heart, they arrived whole. Take care of your mother. That was me. Not late or even unclear, just patient enough to wait for the part of you that could hear them rightly so, Liz, maybe just take us back to what was going on in your life when this voice first came to you.

[Elizabeth Gilbert]

I was in the darkest time of my life, when I was around 30, 31 years old, and I was going through my first, but not last, divorce. And I didn't have any tools of life yet. I didn't know myself. I knew shame. I knew how to be humiliated. I knew how to hide. I didn't know any concept of divinity. Certainly I did not know how to be kind to myself.

[Kai Dickens]

So you hear this voice that tells you you need to write a letter. And I love that you were just like, okay. And you pick up your pen and then what happened?

[Elizabeth Gilbert]

I wrote, I need you. And in response I wrote, I'm right here and I'm with you.

[Kai Dickens]

How many start that way? That's where mine started.

[Elizabeth Gilbert]

Most of them start that way. Like, I've now read thousands of these and it's rare that it doesn't start with either I'm right here or we are right here. It sometimes comes in first person plural, sometimes comes in first person singular. But the very first thing is this deep reassurance that you are not alone and that you have never been alone. And mine also said very similar to yours. I was with you at the moment of your birth, and I'll be with you at the moment of your death. There's never been a moment that I haven't been here. Wow.

[Kai Dickens]

So beautiful. And it's kind of curious, right, that this reassurance is almost ubiquitously the first thing love has us know. Why do you think that is?

[Elizabeth Gilbert]

I think this speaks to our deepest fundamental fear of, like, looking out to the void of the perceivable universe and being like, there's nothing there. There's that tremendous existential angst. And then the letter went on to say, I don't need anything from you. I don't need you to be successful. I don't need you to not be depressed. Everyone in my life needed me to not be depressed, including me. And love was like, I have no need for you to be any different than what you are right now. Nothing about you needs to change. And if you never get well and you're this depressed and miserable for the rest of your life, don't worry. It's okay.

[Kai Dickens]

And just for those listening who may not know much about your books or background, two of my favorite books of yours are Eat, Pray, Love and Big Magic. But your books can get pretty personal. And you've been through a ton, you know, divorce and addiction and death of a partner.

[Elizabeth Gilbert]

My life has been, like many of our lives, periods of great joy, periods of great sorrow, seasons of loss, seasons of success, seasons of fear, seasons of confidence. It's changeable, it's mutable. People die, another divorce happened, sickness happens. Like all of the drama of life happens. And this steadily beating source that says, I'm right here, you're not alone, I'm not going anywhere, and I don't need you to. Change is constant. I've had hard times, but I've never dipped again to the level that I was in at that moment. Because that voice is always there.

[Kai Dickens]

So now, you know, knowing that you do this almost every day, I mean, are the letters the same? Are they short like a post it note now? Like, do they change a bit? You know, does love give you a little variety?

[Elizabeth Gilbert]

They've changed over the years where they're now more instructive. The first decade and a half, my love, hunger, my bereft sense of being alone. That sense was so deep that I think that that source just needed to spend a decade and a half reassuring me that there was nothing it had to do. Like, you can fail at another marriage and I love you. You can lose these relationships and I love you. You can have disastrous things going on in your family that you don't know how to deal with. And I'll love you. I needed so much convincing because that message is exactly the opposite of what I had always been led to believe, that my merit of being loved was based on how much I could produce, how successful I could be, how lovable I could be in human terms. And so in the last 10 years, it's like, you know how loved you are. I've got some work for you to do. Here's where I want your attention. Here's who I want you to be serving. Here's what I don't want you to be doing. Before, it was telling me, you don't have to do anything. I just love you. And now it's like, I do love you. And there's a couple things I need you to do.

[Kai Dickens]

What are some of the things? Like, I'm curious about love's directions.

[Elizabeth Gilbert]

Sometimes it's about what I'm not supposed to be doing more than what I'm supposed to be doing, which is harder. Sometimes it's just a redirection of attention. Like, I don't want your attention on this, I want your attention on that. I want you to teach people how to do this. Practice, or sometimes it's very specific. Call this person and check on them. Go to this person's house and see if they're all right. A lot of the direction is about the releasing of control or the illusion of control. And of course, letting go of control is letting go of something you never had and you don't even need to understand it. And I need you to back off because your anxiety about this thing that you have no power over or your anxiety about this person or group of people that you have no power over is draining vital and crucial energy that could be used very well elsewhere.

[Kai Dickens]

So interesting.

[Elizabeth Gilbert]

One of the other messages we hear a lot about is surrender. And we hear this tremendous relief from people when they are invited into surrender. Everyone is so stressed and everyone is so tense, and that's from trying to control what we can't control.

[Kai Dickens]

So, okay, that's kind of cool. So love can direct you.

[Elizabeth Gilbert]

It sounds like the directions are more intimate than global. And for my big old grandiose ego that wants to be a world changer, that's very humbling. Somebody in the letter from Love, Love said to them. You are loved beyond measure by forces that have given you control over practically nothing. But the little teeny, tiny bit that you do have control over is so important that you show up for. And if you're expending yourself on things that you can't do anything about, then you're not going to be able to help where we actually need you. So it's very humbling. I love that, though.

[Kai Dickens]

I mean, what a beautiful thing. And I guess as a writer, have these letters influenced any of your work?

[Elizabeth Gilbert]

My last book, it was a direct instruction to write. Even though it was uncomfortable. It was like, we need you to write this. We need you to tell the truth

[Kai Dickens]

for the many people out there who aren't writers and may not even consider themselves, you know, really creative. And this task seems daunting. What do you say to them? What would be your advice?

[Elizabeth Gilbert]

That's a big obstacle for people. They're like, I'm not a writer. And I'm like, the most beautiful letters I've gotten from our guests are from people who are not writers, because a very simple, unwriterly message is trying to come through you, and they're just downloading the message without any obstacle.

[Kai Dickens]

Have there been any surprises in the letters from love where you've been like, wow, this person was not tuning into love, you know? Or does everyone seem to be able to tune in and receive it?

[Elizabeth Gilbert]

Nothing I have read doesn't sound like love to me. That's what is so wild about it. People doing this for the very first time, which is every single week, a couple people will drop in and say, I don't even know if I believe in it. It feels really weird. I'm feeling super vulnerable. Anyway, here's my first letter from love, and I'm like, that's identical to mine. Like, that's identical to the messages that I've been receiving. The same themes run through. You don't need to understand. There's more going on here than you can see. You have no idea how loved you are. Stop doing so much. Stop trying so hard. Which I think the whole world could use as guidance right now.

[Kai Dickens]

I just want to share a few clips from guests that you've invited to read their letters from Love.

[Elizabeth Gilbert]

Your striving meant nothing. To love. Your being meant everything. What I really want you to know is that you're already so loved. You don't have to work so hard

[Kai Dickens]

to push so hard to perform so hard for it.

[Elizabeth Gilbert]

Don't worry, I got you. Not because you deserve it, mind you. Deserving has nothing to do with

[Kai Dickens]

really is remarkable, because if you were to tell someone even to write a letter from God, that could be an angry God or jealous God or this God, or it could be multiple God. Like, it's not the same. Or if you were to tell someone to write a letter from Earth, you don't know what to do. And I bet they'd all be a little bit different. And I always think what's real kind of resonates, right? Like, you can feel it, like, with your cord. And the fact that everyone knows what a letter from love is or how to do it or it comes out the right way must mean it's just so tuned to who we are that it's not difficult to get there.

[Elizabeth Gilbert]

Something that I found really interesting when I started doing this is I would say to that source, to that voice, are you God? And the answer came back, no, we are love. And I'm like, well, I don't get the difference. And they're like, I'm part of God. But God is much more than just this. Love is an actual thing. And unconditional love, specifically is an actual thing.

[Kai Dickens]

So are there times when love maybe, you know, has surprised you or tells you, you know, no, I'm not that, or I'm not gonna do that.

[Elizabeth Gilbert]

There have been times where I've almost. I'm trying to do divination. Like, I've asked that voice to tell me what's going to happen if I'm in a really scared situation. And it has said, we don't know the future. That's not our department. We're just here. We just love you.

[Kai Dickens]

And do you ever get frustrated by what love says to you?

[Elizabeth Gilbert]

I remember in a very dark time in my life saying, if you can't fix it and you can't change it, and you can't tell me what's going to happen or make it go away, what use are you? And the response was, we are company for you in the darkest moments of your life. And if you don't think that's vital, just try being in the darkest moments of your life alone.

[Kai Dickens]

Wow. Yeah. Dang, that lands. So it sounds like this has kind of, you know, deeply changed your approach to navigating good and bad times. Which sounds trite, but it has made a difference.

[Elizabeth Gilbert]

One of the things that it's really taught me is having received all of that unconditional love, I now am much better at just sitting with people who are in pain without trying to fix it, knowing sometimes love just needs to be in the room and that presence is enough and nothing needs to be changed because it can't be. That's part of it too. What's happening cannot be changed and the presence of love changes what cannot be changed into something that can be accepted.

[Kai Dickens]

Oh, okay, wait. I just need to repeat that. The presence of love changes what cannot be changed into something that can be accepted. That feels so important. It's almost like everything. I didn't realize something as simple as a pillowcase could help with anti aging and hydration until I tried Blissey. Blissey pillowcases are made from the highest quality silk, 100% pure mulberry silk in fact, which is naturally cooling and much gentler on your hair and skin. Their dermatology just tested and recommended, machine washable and come in over 100 colors with fun collections like Wicked and Zodiac Signs. Blissey is also a 13 time award winner with over 3 million pillowcases sold. Blissey makes a practical gift people actually love. Perfect for birthdays, bridal showers, anniversaries and more. They also make matching sleep masks, bonnets and crease preventing scrunchies. After a few weeks of sleeping on Blissy pillowcases, I wake up with noticeably less frizzy hair and my skin looks clearer. Because you're a listener, Blissi is offering 60 nights risk free plus an additional 30% off when you [e-mail] tapes. That's B L-I-S-S-Y.com tapes and use code tapes to get an additional 30% off. Your skin and hair will thank you. Wake up with clearer skin, smoother hair and cooler sleep. Use code tapes for an extra 30% [e-mail] tapes this year my intention has been to care for my body and being. What can I do every day that actually feels supportive instead of another thing to manage? That's where Cachava fits into my routine. It's an all in one nutrient shake that helps cover the basics when life gets busy. Cachava supports steady energy throughout the day with key vitamins and minerals, helps digestion with fiber, probiotics and enzymes, and supports immunity with vitamin C and zinc. It also fuels strength and recovery through plant based protein and electrolytes which makes a real difference when I'm moving a lot or short on time. What I love most is how simple it is. Two scoops blend and you're done. I'll change it depending on the day. Sometimes I'll add frozen fruit or nut milk and sometimes iced coffee and with flavors like chocolate, vanilla, chai Matcha and strawberry. It never gets boring. The Caciava kitchen also has easy recipes if you want new ideas. There are no artificial flavors, colors or sweeteners. It's non gmo, gluten free, soy free, plant based and made without preservatives. Just clean nutrition that actually tastes good and in just two scoops you get 25 grams of protein, 6 grams of fiber, greens, adaptogens and more. Stick with your wellness goals. Go to kachava.com and use code tapes for 15% off. That's Kachava K A C-H-A-V-A.com code tapes these days I'm all about quality over quantity, especially in my closet. If it's not well made and versatile, it's just not worth it to me. That's honestly why I love Quince. The fabric feels elevated, the cuts are thoughtful and the pricing makes sense. Quince makes high quality wardrobe staples. Using premium fabrics like 100% European linen, 100% silk and organic cotton poplin, Quince works directly with safe, ethical factories and cuts out the middlemen you're not paying for brand markup or fancy retail stores. Everything Quince makes is built to hold up season after season. The stitching, the fit, the fabrics. These are pieces you'll reach for over and over. The Quince cotton cashmere sweater has become my go to. It's light enough for layering but still feels luxurious. And it doesn't cost anywhere near what quality cashmere usually does. Start building a wardrobe you love. You don't need a closet full of options, you just need pieces that work right now. Go to quince.com tapes for free shipping and 365 day returns. That's a full year to wear it and love it. And you will now available in Canada too. Don't keep settling for clothes that don't last. Go to q U-I-N-E.com tapes for free shipping and 365 day returns quince.com tapes. Okay, so in your experience, are there personality types or patterns to maybe who has an easier time or harder time with this process? Like does love equally flow through everyone or can we stand in our own way?

[Elizabeth Gilbert]

I'm astonished at how every single person that we invite, including some people who are very well regarded as spiritual people. It's terrifying and it's deeply uncomfortable for them. But I'm fascinated by how difficult it is to get men to do this. There have been a number of men that I was very surprised wouldn't do it. And then there's been a number of men who said they would do it and then failed. It's so hard for them. Yeah.

[Kai Dickens]

I mean, it's so important because I'm raising a little boy and he's so full of love and he's so thoughtful and everything about him is just this vulnerable sweetness. And I look out into the world and hear about, you know, the epidemic of male loneliness and that men are more likely to isolate and have a harder time reaching out to people and fewer people to reach out to and account for 80% of suicide. And I mean, I think about him all the time. Like, how do I keep that vulnerability alive in you? Right. Because I feel like it's the fear of being vulnerable that makes people not want to connect or reach out.

[Elizabeth Gilbert]

In a way is interesting because you would think that women have a lower sense of self worth, But I think women are much more open to the concept of love. And one person who is somebody who I deeply admire and is an incredibly compassionate man who does great work on compassion in the public sphere, I asked him to do it and he wrote back and he said, I'm not going to do this because I know what love is going to say. Love is going to say something to me along the lines of, you're perfect the way you are. And I don't want to hear that because I don't want to lose the fire of momentum that I need to try to constantly be better. And I was like, that is a wild response. And also, I don't know what love would say to you. Like you don't even want to ask and find out. That's so interesting.

[Kai Dickens]

You can still be ambitious if you're loved. You can still be driven to better yourself.

[Elizabeth Gilbert]

Yeah. I think there's a fear of being a sucker or being credulous or being woo woo or being seen as any of those things. Because this is unprovable.

[Kai Dickens]

Yeah. I mean, this is something we think through and wrestle with in the telepathy tapes all the time. You know, this concept of not wanting to be tricked or be made a fool, but also making space for and being open to exploring things that we simply don't know are not true.

[Elizabeth Gilbert]

One of the things that people often say is, how do I know this is the spirit of unconditional love and not just me talking to me. And my answer to that is, you don't and can't know. I've made a decision to believe that this is a force and a source that is speaking through me, into me. But when I started doing this 20 years ago it was purely an act of life saving imagination where the assignment was imagine if there was such a thing as unconditional love. And if unconditional love had a voice, what would it want you to know today? And then write that. So it's an act of creative imagination before it becomes an act of faith. And it may never become an act of faith, it may just be an act of creative imagination where you're just wondering what would unconditional love say? And you write it. And my feeling is, does it matter if it's only my imagination? Thank your imagination. Thank you for saving me from despair. Because my despairing thoughts are also my only my imagination. So it's a question of like which aspect of my mind am I going to listen to? The one telling me that I'm doomed or the one telling me that I'm loved no matter what. And I'm choosing to turn the dial that way. But I actually believe that it's coming from outside of what I would call myself. To me. Yeah.

[Kai Dickens]

And sometimes these things that we feel so deeply can't necessarily be proven with the scientific methods or at least not now. But that doesn't necessarily make them any less real. In the upcoming Telepathy Tapes film, we really go through like humanity has lived through multiple paradigms. Things that seem so real and so true change and then suddenly they're not true or things that can't be true, it changes and suddenly they are. So anyway, I think about the fact that every single person is more or less understanding exactly what love is.

[Elizabeth Gilbert]

That's the thing. Now that I've been reading these letters for two and a half years and I've come to know a lot of people in the community, not only are there people writing these letters who have never experienced it, there are people writing these letters who have experienced quite the opposite, who have experienced lives of horrific abuse and neglect. People who are going through unthinkable catastrophes right now. This is not some light hearted thing. And the fact that somebody who has never experienced even a simulacrum of unconditional love can generate it either through imagination or a download is absolutely incredible to me. Like people who had parents who were putting cigarettes out on them are able to write to themselves from this place that is so tear inducingly tender like people who've never known tenderness.

[Kai Dickens]

So in cases like this where the feeling or concept of, you know, tenderness and love might be so foreign or far away, you know. Are there any tips for getting started?

[Elizabeth Gilbert]

One of the clues that we give people to learn how to do. This is start the letter from love to yourself with an affectionate nickname, with something that's a very dear honorific. Like, mine is always Honey Head. There's somebody in our community Love always calls her Penguin Cheeks. And like, these sweet little, like, bumble Truck. And that's something the men have trouble with, too. But I think of a quote my dad always used to say. The much loved child has many nicknames, right? Like, we do this with our pets automatically. Anybody who's got a pet that they Love has like 90 different names for their pet. There's something so literally endearing about an endearment, even if it's just like my child, which is how a lot of these begin. My child, my precious one, my gem. If you knew your preciousness would make you cry if you knew how much we love you that's.

[Kai Dickens]

So there was that plural again. We.

[Elizabeth Gilbert]

And I love it. It's like, who's the weak? Is it some consortium of angels or spirits? Or, like, what are we talking about here? Like, who's.

[Kai Dickens]

Who's.

[Elizabeth Gilbert]

Who's behind this?

[Kai Dickens]

I don't know either. But it certainly felt like a very real presence. And whether it was from me or not from me didn't really matter.

[Elizabeth Gilbert]

How was it for you?

[Kai Dickens]

I mean, it was so different from any experience I've ever had. It was very vulnerable, you know, I like to be very private, you know, and, like the telepathy tapes has social media that posts all the time, but I post very rarely. I don't like to go on the Internet. I don't like people to know too much about my life. And so this felt like a prayer, you know? Cause for me, I do think, like, love and this sense of God are connected, even though God probably created love, right? And love is like a component. It felt like letting people into the most, like, vulnerable moments of your life. And I didn't know actually how to sit down and write it, so I just thought, well, it'll come to me when it does. And it was awesome because it was like four in the morning one morning, and it just like. And I wrote the whole thing in my notes app, you know, on my phone. I mean, it was a messy stream of consciousness. But I remember when I woke up that day, I felt so happy and everything in the world felt glittery. I wasn't stressed and I wasn't nervous. I just felt like everything grounded itself around me. And it was the happiest I felt in a long time.

[Elizabeth Gilbert]

Wow.

[Kai Dickens]

And I realized, like, I need to focus this. And I think you don't often go back and look at, like, very vulnerable moments that happen for you and who is there? And often it's no one. But love was for me, it was really this realization that love has manifested itself for me in many ways, sometimes to help me understand, it's always there. And I don't think love has to do that. I don't think. I think it is just there. Right. But that's what inside of me wanted me to know is like. There's like magic, if you want to call it that, is also tied with love. This unseen world is tied with love. That's the substrate of everything. So it was beautiful. But then when I had to actually record it and put it out there, it felt like, okay, well, this feels really, really, really vulnerable. But I think that vulnerability is good, right? That's the doorway to connection, a hundred percent.

[Elizabeth Gilbert]

And I'm so glad you mentioned the unseen World, because we also pick a theme sometimes. And like our original prompt is the one I've used forever, which is just Dear Love, what would you have me know? But then, depending on what the letter is of the special guest, sometimes there's an inspiration for a more specific question. And so with yours, we asked people, go ahead and ask the spirit of unconditional love what it would have you know, about the unseen world. And those were some of the most beautiful and interesting letters we've ever gotten, including this repeated message that came through hundreds of times and different people all over the world saying, the unseen world is more real than what you call the real world.

[Kai Dickens]

I actually hadn't gone back to look, and then my producer, Selena, was like, you should. And so I went through that week's letters, and you're right, there are hundreds. And I'm just going to read a few of these excerpts. Dear One, the unseen is almost all there is. Here's another one. The unseen world holds the truest truths, the universal thread of life that tethers you to all other beings in the universe. Here's another. The unseen world. My inspiration is everything that makes the seen world possible. Here's another. The unseen world is limitless, borderless, non discriminatory, and open 24 7. And here's another. Everything you see, little sun, is evidence of what you don't see. Trust that everything you see is the visible evidence of the unseen world. Me love everything, everything, everything. I mean, it was so beautiful to read through these and the many of letters that reflect the themes, you know, that we're exploring in our show that the unseen is more real, you know, and harking back to season two, it's what so many people that come back from a near death experience say. It's like Plato's cave.

[Elizabeth Gilbert]

It's like you're in the dream, but this is the reality.

[Kai Dickens]

Right.

[Elizabeth Gilbert]

And what we're trying to get you to is to awaken out of your dream into the reality of the love and the magic that is the real thing.

[Kai Dickens]

Yeah. And as we discussed in season two, episode three on creativity and how it engages with us when you download creatively, I think for those of us who've experienced it, it's very real and many times it's definitely not from you. And I guess that's my big question for you. And there's no one better to answer this question than you. Does the download from creativity come from the same place as the download from love? Like the creative muse that is very much out there that we explored deeply in that episode, working with us. Is that the same force as love, you know, that seems to deeply have a consciousness and will of its own? Is it coming from the same place as love? Like, are they the same invisible entity?

[Elizabeth Gilbert]

No.

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[Elizabeth Gilbert]

Love has a specific fingerprint. Creativity can Be very demanding, it can be bossy, it can be elusive, it can be playful, it can be all sorts of things. Love is very straightforward in its absence of demand. The voice of love relaxes us more than anything else does because it answers our biggest fundamental fear that I think we all have, which is, am I worthy of my existence? Am I a waste of breath? Am I a waste of genetic material? Has my life been meaningless? Am I enough of anything? Do I deserve to be here? Do I want to be here? These are ancient, crippling questions. And I think that love comes from a very different place than creativity. Love doesn't care. Love's like, I don't care if you do that or not. I don't care. Like, creativity is insistent. It's like, you must make this work.

[Kai Dickens]

Yeah.

[Elizabeth Gilbert]

And love's like, you know, you can do it or not do it, you know?

[Kai Dickens]

Yeah. Interesting. So many of these things seem to come from a similar place. And maybe it's just the non physical world, something, you know, we're swimming in so much that we don't even know exists. Right. Like a fresh one. No, it's in an ocean. But they are different. So I'm glad that you kind of called that out. One thing that was interesting for me that I think is the most actually weirdly tender when I think about, outside of the sentiment of you're loved always and you're never alone, was when going through these moments of what I was feeling, love wanted me to know. I felt for the first time like I was back there. Like I was able to be with the young version of myself. It felt like time travel in this beautiful way where these deep moments where you felt so scared or crippled or angry or frustrated or desperate. And they're so significant because they're the moments that dot your life, that creates who you are. It's your character. But sometimes you think about and you reflect on it. But writing the letter from Love, I felt as though I could see myself, like wrapped up on a blanket on the couch. As though love was this presence in the room, loving me, cradling me, looking at me, comforting me. And in doing that, I was able to be back in that room. And there was something so sweet about being back in my childhood house and really feeling it. Because it's like my parents are divorced now, that house is gone, my brothers live in different state. You know, it's just like all that stuff has just crashed into the almost like devastation of growing up. Where there's shards where there used to be something at Least whole and perfect, at least for a little bit. Or that cradle of home that felt loving and safe. Or that living room couch where you would curl up under the blanket that your parents and your brothers used. Whatever it is like, you forget how tactile and safe that can feel. For me, it felt safe and I was transported back there. And that was the greatest gift of all.

[Elizabeth Gilbert]

That's so sweet. What's coming to mind is I'm hearing the voice of the great meditation teacher Byron, Katie, who I've seen work with people on dismantling their most stressful beliefs. And when they arrive at this place where that belief dissolves, there's this warmth that they step into. And she always says, welcome home.

[Kai Dickens]

Hmm.

[Elizabeth Gilbert]

Welcome home, honey. Welcome home to love. The rage that they were feeling about somebody that they were able to let go of. Like, welcome home to your true nature. Like, welcome home to where you're really from. And in your case, it was this homecoming that was literal and also emotional. Like, welcome home to the home you grew up in and welcome home to your true nature, which is of love.

[Kai Dickens]

Yeah, I mean, you know, it can be so challenging. Some people can be really difficult and life can be really hard. And operating from love and grace and forgiveness, which I think are all parts of love all the time, it's no easy feat.

[Elizabeth Gilbert]

And I know you have done a lot of research on near death experiences, but the blindingly common experience that people have at that moment of death and the homecoming, like welcome home and the enormous waves of absolutely unbreakable love, or the reunion with people who hurt you and harmed you or who you hurt and harmed, and the homecoming back to love, which we can't all figure out how to do in this plane. British Australian writer Kemi Neckvapil in her letter from Love was so reassuring. Love was like, we don't at all expect you to be able to operate from this place in this plane. You can try, and certainly it's worth trying to be this loving, but you are not. Unconditional love. That's our job.

[Kai Dickens]

Here's an excerpt from a letter from Love written by Kemi.

[Kemi Neckvapil]

You can't give love to everybody equally because that is not your job. It is mine. I am bigger and more expansive than you'll ever be. I have infinity on my side. You don't. You are not limitless, but I am. Give what love you can and know that I will fill the places that you can't. You are human. Let that be enough. You have your role, I have mine.

[Kai Dickens]

Wow. And that's such a freeing message to hear.

[Elizabeth Gilbert]

Right. You know, I'll share this. And this is something I also see in the thousands of letters that I've read now is that same message coming through of love, saying, you have no idea how little control you have over this. You can be very hurt by people, and you can need to separate from them to preserve yourself. And we understand that. We're not asking you to stay in abusive situations. We don't expect you to be universally forgiving. Like, we know how hard it is. Like, we're not expecting you to be at this level while you're down there or in that, you know, in that video game that you're in, playing out the karmic dramas and these tremendous conundrums and predicaments that you find yourselves in and these wounds and these ways of hurting each other. Like, we're with all of you and those people who you can't love, we love them, so don't worry. I love that.

[Kai Dickens]

I mean, what a relief.

[Elizabeth Gilbert]

What a relief.

[Kai Dickens]

Yeah.

[Elizabeth Gilbert]

What a relief. Because I can't. I mean, I try as hard as anyone I know to be universally loving, and I fail all the time at it. And they're like, it's good. We see. We know. We know.

[Kai Dickens]

It's really something. And I. You know, people always say that, like, a dog's life, right? Like, what a joy. You just really live in the moment. And pretty much all you feel, I think, is unconditional love or fear, like, the most baseline things, and zit. And I think there's a lot more going on with our pets and animals in general. But if you think back to being a child, and I hope that most people have one moment before they became a type A personality where you just were happy. You could just lay down and feel happy just for a moment without planning the future or had a schedule. I mean, you think about being nine. I mean, it was at least hopefully carefree in the sense that you weren't having to think out your life. And, yeah, I mean, I think those are the moments where you are able to feel that way if you feel fundamentally safe and loved. Right. And I guess when I think back on what that letter did, it made me revisit those moments where I felt fundamentally safe and loved, because I don't feel that way when I wake up every day. But doing this allowed me to feel that way again.

[Elizabeth Gilbert]

You know, one thing that Margaret, who. I did this with me, who's one of my oldest friends, and we do this together, one thing that she noticed is that people tend to respond to the letter from love that they receive with either a sense of, oh, I remember this feeling from childhood. This is what it felt like to be free. This is what it felt like to be joyous. This is what it felt like to be light. Or it's people like me who are like, I never for a minute felt that in childhood. I've been looking for this my whole life. Like, there it is. And I've been trying to find it in all sorts of different people, places, and things, and it hasn't been working, but here it is. So you can either experience it as reminding you of what you remember, or for the first time, introducing you to something where you're like, I knew it existed. I knew there was something more than this. And I think that feels very inclusive to me, that this can work. Whether you have been loved and you have known peace, or whether you have not and don't.

[Kai Dickens]

Yeah, if people want to try this for the first time, how would you walk them through this? What would you tell them to do?

[Elizabeth Gilbert]

I would tell him to start with it. And instead of trying to be a mystic who's downloading a spirit to be an imaginator who's making something up, don't try to hear love, try to generate it. Because people do get frustrated when they're like, I'm not hearing it. I'm not hearing it. I'm like, I didn't hear it for a long time either. I made it up. You know, I made it up until something else happened, and I was like, wait a minute. I'm not making this up anymore. Like, I. Now I'm hearing something that feels like it's outside of me.

[Kai Dickens]

So now how do you sort of tap into it? You know? Do you have any tips?

[Elizabeth Gilbert]

My first guidance would be opening up the channel by reading something or listening to something that feels to you like true love. I always think of the great poets, so Mary Oliver works for me because her work is so infused with love. Hafiz, Rumi, Walt Whitman. When I read those, those are like my great saints. They had access to this thing. And I think part of their generosity and part of their loving service as artists was that when they died, they left the door open behind them through their words. So you can enter in through their words. So enter into that space through the words of somebody who opens your heart for you. And then once you're in that space, once you've read that poem, then you just write the question. And I know this is the hardest thing in the entire world for our monkey minds. But truly, do not overthink it. This is another reason why writers have so much trouble doing this. You write, dear Love, what would you have me know? And then imagine if there was a spirit of unconditional love and it loved you without any reservation, completely, personally and intimately. What does it want you to know today about, like, the moment you're in in your life, right this moment. And then write that down. That's it. And then if you want, you can come to our community and post it and we will love you up. But you certainly don't have to share it, because I did this for a decade and a half without sharing anything of it with anybody.

[Kai Dickens]

I love the idea of just doing it all the time still, you know, because that, like, to me is like, okay, I did it once, but I think there's always more to know.

[Elizabeth Gilbert]

I need so much love, Connie. Yeah, I need it every single day because I'm scared every single day. I wake up scared. I wake up most days feeling like I got shot out of a cannon with this pressing feeling of there not being enough time or resources. I wake up in dread for the state of the world. I wake up in shame for my failures. I wake up in fear about my relationships and what's gonna happen to the people that I love. Like, all of this needs to be bake in love for me to be able to function. And without that, I'm just a meat puppet walking around trying to make things work. So I need to start the day with, like, a deeply reassuring message of trust us. Whatever happens, it's going to be okay. Because of love. It doesn't necessarily make you get what you want, but it makes you be able to live in what you get.

[Kai Dickens]

Yeah, I think that's beautiful.

[Elizabeth Gilbert]

For anybody who thinks this is like, light work. And I don't mean light work like a light worker. I mean like meaningless, insignificant, like the world is burning. Are we really going to sit here telling ourselves that we love ourselves? Aren't there much more pressing things? There's a famous story about the first time the Dalai Lama came to the West. He met with a group of intellectuals and teachers and philosophers. And in that room was a young Sharon Salzberg, the wonderful meditation teacher and teacher of compassion. And she asked the Dalai Lama, what is the traditional Tibetan remedy for self hatred? And the Dalai Lama was so bewildered by the question that he had to talk to a translator for like 15 or 20 minutes. He kept asking her to repeat it because he literally kept thinking he was mishearing. Who is the enemy that you're struggling with? Like, who is the person that you hate that you're feeling these hateful feelings for? And they'd be like, me, I am. I am the person who I hate. And he was like, that doesn't make any sense. Like, you are you. You are yourself and you need yourself. And he said, do you all have this. This sense of that you are your own enemy of self hatred? And every single person in the room was like, yeah, duh. And he was horrified. He said later there were two things that shocked him the most about coming to the United States, and one was the rampant consumerism, and the other was the deep self hatred. And if you don't think those two things are the same thing, you're not paying attention. This is why this is so important. It doesn't make any sense that you would be your own enemy. There's just no sense of that in traditional Tibetan culture. And then he was like, you need to learn how to talk to yourself the way your mother talked to you. And then all these people knew him, like, no, no. And he's like, wait, what? And then he found out, like, what a lot of mothers are like in our culture. And he was like, okay, Grandmother, like, how far back do we have to go? Was there ever anybody in your life who spoke to you with tenderness? And for a lot of people, the answer is no. That's where we have to begin. But for some people, you've got to look really hard to find where anyone ever held them and said, you are innately precious without having to do anything to earn it. So that's why I think this is deeply, deeply important, because self hatred leads people to do all sorts of things that are incredibly damaging, not only to themselves, but to others. Yeah. I also believe something is happening right now in this moment. People have talked about the end of the age of the Guru. You can download this yourself. Like, you don't need to go to a medium. You can do this. You have access to all of this. And more and more people, I think, are awakening to that and hearing and seeing things that in previous generations were maybe stifled or suffocated. Something's going on. The veil is getting thinner.

[Kai Dickens]

I love that you said that. We're leaving the age of the Guru. It's been heresy for much of human history. You needed a priest or you needed someone above you to access the unseen world. And if you could do it on your own, you were a witch or worse. That's a good thing even to end with too, is that this is democratic.

[Elizabeth Gilbert]

I do believe that you can all access this.

[Kai Dickens]

Well, thank you so much, Liz. You are just the most delightful, charming person to speak with every time. I'm just so grateful for you sharing this practice with the world, with our audience. And I really encourage all of you to do it. Please try it just once. Just sit down, quiet your mind, pick up a pen and ask love what it wants you to know. And then let us know too. So thank you all. We'll see you next week. And again, Liz, I just adore you. You're a joy. Thank you.

[Elizabeth Gilbert]

Hi. I'm hugging you.

[Kai Dickens]

That's it for this episode of the Talk Tracks, but new episodes will be released every Wednesday, so stay tuned as we work to unravel all the threads, even the veiled ones that knit together our reality. And please remember to stay kind, stay curious, and that being a true skeptic requires an open mind. Thank you to my amazing collaborators, producers Kathryn Ellis and Selina Kennedy. Technical directing, audio mix and finishing by Jeremy Cole Opening and closing music by Elizabeth PW and original logo and cover art by Ben Condora. Design I'm Kai Dickens, your executive producer, writer and host.

[Progressive Insurance Announcer]

This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever find yourself playing the budgeting game? Well, with a name your price tool from Progressive, you can find options that fit your budget and potentially lower your bills. Try [e-mail] Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates Price and coverage match limited by state law. Not available in all states.

[Grocery Outlet Announcer]

Score big savings this week at Grocery Outlet. Your extreme value headquarters. Dinner just got easier with 1 pound of 93% lean grass fed ground beef for just $4.99. Plan A nacho night with all the toppings or serve up a big pot of warm chili. The meal possibilities are endless when you can stock up without breaking the budget. This deal is only available until March 24th. While supplies last. Hurry to your local grocery outlet.

[Elizabeth Gilbert]

Today.

[Kai Dickens]

Grocery Outlet bargain market.