The Telepathy Tapes S2E9: Energy Healing Part 2—Consciousness at Work in the Body

Host: Kai Dickens
Date: December 10, 2025

Overview

This episode dives into the scientific investigation of energy healing—probing not just whether it works, but how it works. Host Kai Dickens leads listeners from personal transformation stories into rigorously controlled studies in hospital, laboratory, and research settings. The episode explores what might be happening at the physiological, electrical, and even informational level during energy healing, and considers what this means for our understanding of health, consciousness, and human connection.

Main Themes

• Scientific evidence supporting energy healing and its measurable biological effects
• Exploration of paradoxes: electromagnetic fields vs. informational biofields
• The physiological signature of healing: coherence and resonance in heart and brain
• How healing might be mediated: mitochondria, biophotons, informational fields
• Ruling out placebo: studies on cancer cells and mice
• The possibility of nonlocal mechanisms (e.g., scalar waves) for healing at a distance
• Implications for consciousness studies and potential bridges to telepathy

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Introduction: From Fringe to Frontline (02:40)

• Kai Dickens recaps Part 1: Reports of healers operating at a distance, diseases going into remission, and paradoxes in the science attempting to explain it.
• The challenge: Lab studies show electromagnetic activity during healing, but distant healing can't be explained by EM fields alone.
• Today's focus: The transition to rigorous scientific investigation. "If something is truly moving between us during healing, what is it? And can science catch it in the act?"

2. Case Study: Actor Tim Daly & Healer Jill Blakeway (04:22–11:24)

• Actor Tim Daly was a skeptic until recovering rapidly from two broken legs with Jill's help.
• Jill Blakeway: “Try and stop it. And he couldn’t. ... He healed very, very quickly.” (04:49)
• In lab studies, Jill and Tim’s physiological states were monitored.
  • HRV (Heart Rate Variability) is used to measure coherence—a state where heart and brain waves become synchronized.
• Key Finding: Under Jill’s influence, both she and Tim moved into synchrony.
  • Dr. Lealagos (Dr. Annette Lagos): “At approximately 45 seconds, Jill went into resonance. And then at 47 seconds, Tim went into resonance. His heart rate started to absolutely coincide and beat in the same rhythm as Jill’s.” (08:31)
• Jill: Internal coherence is central, and anyone can develop it: “I have to live quite well to maintain that coherent biofield.” (06:09)
• Cancer cell research: When healers work on cancer cells in dishes, "the cancer cells moved towards each other ... and were reversing the cancer." (09:01)
  • Insight: Cancer cells seem to lose their 'community' status—coherence prompts them to rejoin.
  • Jill: “A cancer cell is a cell that has forgotten it’s in community. ... It’s like a narcissistic cell.” (09:21)

3. The Accessibility of Healing (11:24)

• Jill: Healing is not for the chosen few. “It’s a miracle, but it’s an everyday miracle, and it’s a miracle that I think anyone can take part in.” (11:17)
• Healing is described as biofields connecting through group consciousness, measurable for the first time.

4. Reiki and Rigorous Clinical Trials (12:05–19:52)

The “Fakie” Study—University of Utah & Harvard (Dr. Adam Hanley)

• Design: 164 chronic pain patients randomized to real Reiki, sham (“Fakie”) Reiki (hand motions, but healer is distracted), mindfulness, or waitlist control.
• Controls: Fakie healers kept busy counting backwards, mimicking movements but with no intention.
• Outcomes:
  • Mindfulness: 38% pain reduction
  • Reiki: 32%
  • Fakie: 20%
  • Significant: Reiki better than fakie, showing it’s not all placebo. (15:03)
• Subjective experiences:
  • 55% of Reiki recipients felt boundaries dissolve with provider (vs. 26% fakie, 14% mindfulness) (15:58)
  • 50% felt “waves of energy” (30% fakie, 17% mindfulness)
  • 32% sensed the provider’s presence where they were not physically present (4% fakie, 0% mindfulness) (16:22)
• Physiology:
  • EEG and FNIRS scans show increased activity in prefrontal and somatosensory cortex—regions tied to pain relief in established therapies. (17:22)
• Dr. Hanley:
  “What’s really fascinating ... is that those are really well established regions in other complementary therapies for pain management ... That these Reiki data are mapping onto these neural zones ... is shocking to me.” (17:57)
• On placebos:
  • “I didn’t expect there to be some sort of physiological effect from this Reiki stuff that I don’t understand. … But something’s happening.” (18:47)
• On significance vs. medication:
  “These are comparable pain decreases to what we see from common pain medications.” (19:52)

5. The Edge Case: Rustin Hughes’ Healing Touch and Phantom Limb Sensations (24:08–30:30)

• Rustin Hughes, a veteran, undergoes healing touch therapy after amputation.
• Reports feeling energy flows exactly where his lost leg would be during sessions—a sensation which supports his physical rehab.
  • “Even though the leg is gone, that energy is still there. And realizing just because the leg is gone doesn’t mean it is necessarily gone.” (27:53)
• The effect can’t be explained by brain ‘phantom map’ alone—it’s felt most during energy healing sessions, masked to his awareness.
• Rustin’s broader insight: “People see me today, and they probably look at me and think that the leg is my disability. … Our mind is very powerful. … I think we can heal ourselves with ourselves.” (30:04)

6. The Gold Standard: MD Anderson Cancer Center Study (31:40–39:08)

Interview: David Liebson, Subtle Energy Funders Collective

• Location: MD Anderson, a world-class cancer research institute
• Cancer Type: Pancreatic—chosen because it's highly lethal and hard to treat.
• Design:
  • Cancer cells in petri dishes: compared control, sham healer, and active healer groups.
  • Similar setup in mice with tumors.
  • Repeated with multiple healers, lots of samples, rigorous controls.
• Results:
  • “Biofield therapy significantly had an impact on reducing the growth of cancer in these cancer cells … and similarly … in mice.”
    “There is no placebo effect. These cells don’t have an expectation. … If you’re trying to criticize these modalities by saying … placebo, this research has to open your mind up.” (34:42–35:56)
• Biofield Healer John Levaque:
  • Describes generating a frequency/field of energy in the cells: “There is a change in the cells, so it is making a difference.” (37:25)
  • While being measured—EEG, heart rate, respiration—researchers observed:
    • Healer affected bioelectricity of cells.
    • Altered mitochondria shape.
    • Speculation about entanglement and biophotons as information carriers.

7. Mitochondria: The Portal for Healing? (39:08–44:23)

Interview: Dr. Martin Picard, Columbia University

• Mitochondria are “intracellular brains,” integrating metabolic, energetic, and environmental signals.
  • “Very important cellular decisions are actually made by mitochondria, not by the nucleus.” (40:03)
• Speculates mitochondria might be the “portal between subjective states of mind—whatever we call consciousness—and the physical molecular reality of the body.” (40:47)
• Cancer cells lose mitochondrial integration, disconnecting from the “cell collective.”
  • “Cancer is basically a cell … that breaks the social contract and goes on its own.” (42:21)

8. Mechanisms: How Might Energy Healing Work? (44:23–49:14)

• David Liebson: No single mechanism—likely a “confluence of mechanisms.”
  • Placebo is one, but MD Anderson research shows it’s not all placebo.
  • Possible mechanisms: electromagnetic fields, bioelectricity, biophotonic signaling.
  • Distant healing doesn’t fit EMF models—some researchers suggest scalar (Tesla) waves as carrier waves.
    • Jill: “We’re looking for an informational carrier wave. … Torsion scalar waves … as being the transmission.” (47:21)
    • Scalar waves: Theoretical, not confirmed, wouldn’t dissipate with distance, could explain nonlocal healing.
  • Jill: “Science is never ever, ever settled.” (48:48)

9. Implications for Telepathy & Human Potential (49:14–end)

• The science of information in the body opens up explanations not only for energy healing but for telepathy—the show’s core theme.
• Next episode: Investigating whether telepathy could help reach people locked inside by conditions like dementia.
• Jill: “We’re going to understand more about our place in the universe and our role as human beings and who we actually are ... There’s more. I’m so sure.” (49:23)

Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• Jill Blakeway: “A healer’s job is to organize themselves in such a way that the patient can calibrate themselves against it and get back to homeostasis.” (05:37)
• Dr. Lagos: “At 45 seconds, Jill went into resonance. 47 seconds, Tim went into resonance. His heart rate started to absolutely coincide and beat in the same rhythm as Jill’s.” (08:31)
• Jill Blakeway: “A cancer cell is a cell that has forgotten its in community. ... It’s like a narcissistic cell.” (09:21)
• Adam Hanley: “These Reiki data are mapping onto these neural zones for pain relief ... it shocks me because I still don’t really understand what Reiki is, and I don’t really understand what energy healing is.” (17:57)
• Rustin Hughes: “Even though the leg is gone, that energy is still there. And realizing just because the leg is gone doesn’t mean it is necessarily gone.” (27:53)
• David Liebson: “This research has to wake people up ... there may be something else going on.” (35:59)
• Dr. Martin Picard: “Very important cellular decisions are actually made by mitochondria, not by the nucleus.” (40:03)
• Jill Blakeway: “We’re looking for an informational carrier wave. ... Currently people are looking toward torsion scalar waves.” (47:21)
• Jill Blakeway: “Science is never ever, ever settled.” (48:48)

Key Timestamps for Major Segments

• Intro & Theme: 02:40
• Tim Daly & Jill Blakeway’s Lab Experience: 04:22–11:24
• Reiki Clinical Study with “Fakie”: 12:05–19:52
• Rustin Hughes' Story & Phantom Limb Healing: 24:08–30:30
• MD Anderson Cancer Cell Study: 31:40–39:08
• The Mitochondria Connection: 39:08–44:23
• Mechanisms & Carrier Waves: 44:23–49:14
• Implications for Telepathy & Preview of Next Episode: 49:14–end

Tone and Style

• Balanced between personal—sometimes awe-filled—narrative and empirical, data-driven exploration.
• Speakers move seamlessly from empathy and curiosity to skepticism and scientific rigor, holding space for both the mysterious and the measurable.

For listeners and non-listeners alike, this episode stands as a bridge: translating esoteric healing claims into language, data, and imagery that even the skeptical can ponder—while always pointing beyond, to what science may yet discover.