The Telepathy Tapes: Talk Tracks Ep. 15 – The Physiology of Nonspeakers

Host: Ky Dickens (A), Producer: Katherine Ellis (B)
Guests: Katie Asher (C), Dr. Zelinski (D), Dr. Cedric Noel (E), Benjamin Keeling (F)
Release Date: August 3, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode of The Telepathy Tapes dives deep into the physiology of non-speakers with autism, exploring how their minds and bodies interact in ways that defy common understanding. Led by producer Katherine Ellis—new to the series’ revelations—the episode seeks to demystify misunderstood behaviors such as hand-flapping, jumping, and avoiding eye contact. The conversation challenges assumptions, highlighting the need to rethink neurological difference not as deficiency, but as divergence. Personal stories and expert insights uncover how intention, perception, and motor control are intricately linked, and why society must shift toward empathy and curiosity.

Table of Contents

1. Introduction and Framing
2. Katie Asher: A Mother's Perspective
3. Dr. Zelinski: Vision, Perception, and Autism
4. Dr. Cedric Noel: Balance, Brain Integration, and Advantages
5. Occupational Therapy: Meeting Non-Speakers Where They Are
6. Challenging Societal Bias and Seeking Empathy
7. Key Quotes

1. Introduction and Framing

[00:00–02:27]

• Ky Dickens opens, laying out the mission: “Behaviors like flapping, jumping, or avoiding eye contact are often misinterpreted, even by well meaning professionals. But once you begin to understand the physiology of apraxia… everything starts to look different.” (A, 01:01)
• Emphasizes the complexity of nonspeakers’ experiences and the mind-body disconnect known as apraxia.
• Katherine Ellis takes over hosting duties to offer a newcomer’s perspective.

2. Katie Asher: A Mother’s Perspective on Perception

[02:39–04:09], [27:39–28:39], [40:16–41:44]

• Katie Asher, mother to Houston (a nonspeaker), shares how initial assumptions clouded her understanding:

  “We look at people and we automatically make the assumption that they’re experiencing the same things we’re experiencing… and that’s the disconnect.” (C, 03:09)

• Describes her detective-like research, piecing together clues from professionals about why Houston’s behaviors—like flapping, high pain tolerance, or water obsession—manifested.
• Stresses that misinterpretation comes from judging through a neurotypical lens.
• Discusses overlapping sensory challenges, especially visual and auditory overload, and how chronic sensory dysregulation affected Houston’s motor skills and self-control.
• Challenges labeling systems, sharing how Houston was given a low IQ that didn’t capture his abilities:

  “He was called lazy. He was called low functioning… They have no business putting these labels of intent when they have no idea what they’re experiencing.” (C, 40:16)

• Calls for empathy, patience, and belief in those considered different:

  “You find truth from curiosity, from hope, from love, and you believe in people, and then guess what happens? They perform.” (C, 41:09)

3. Dr. Zelinski: Rethinking Vision and Sensory Integration in Autism

[04:09–16:26]

• Dr. Zelinski, a pioneering optometrist, explains that autistic people often process visual information differently.
• Outlines three “types” of eyesight:
  1. Scanning/safety eyesight (usually subconscious, but conscious in many autistic people)
  2. Peripheral eyesight (awareness of surroundings)
  3. Central/identification eyesight (focusing on details)
• Autistic individuals may favor peripheral vision, avoiding eye contact to avoid overstimulation:

  “In somebody with autism… that subconscious [scanning] isn’t subconscious, it’s conscious.” (D, 05:27)

• Explains the challenge of synchronizing multiple sensory channels—eyes, ears, facial expressions, and body language:

  “So what I find with the non speaking population is that most of them are either switching back and forth… but they don't see it as a whole.” (D, 09:08)

• Shares revolutionary findings on the link between vision and hearing, criticizing the outdated nature of current eye exams:

  “We're in the 21st century and we're doing eye exams the way they were designed in the 1800s or 19th century. And for the autistic population… it's absolutely critical.” (D, 15:59)

• Advocates for patience and new approaches to help nonspeakers expand their sensory comfort "zone".

4. Dr. Cedric Noel: Vestibular System, the Brain, and Sensory Advantage

[19:03–27:39]

• Dr. Cedric Noel, functional neurologist, teaches about the vestibular system (balance, spatial orientation, and more).
• Explains its central role, especially in integrating with the cerebellum (the brain’s “fine-tuning” center).

  “If that integration… is not coherent, the information is conflicting… and you can't turn off the vestibular system because it's too powerful.” (E, 20:53)

• Describes how, in autism, the connection between brain regions can be altered, saying it’s not a sign of lesser intelligence but of different brain “real estate” allocation:

  “If you are blind and you don't get to activate your occipital lobe…, the other senses start taking over that region of the brain.” (E, 24:21)

• Suggests that some nonspeakers may develop exceptional perceptual or intuitive abilities as a result of sensory adaptation.

5. Occupational Therapy: Meeting Nonspeakers Where They Are

[31:03–40:16]

• Occupational therapist Benjamin Keeling describes working with nonspeaking clients at Sawdust OT, which uses woodworking to build confidence and regulation.
• Challenges the medical model: “I don’t assume they can’t do anything… I assume competence in every way.” (F, 32:20)
• Shares a moving story about Houston intuitively finding a specific type of wood by touch and energy:

  “He was able to pick up on the energy of that wood through that pile of sawdust.” (F, 34:38)

• Explains sensory-motor regulatory behaviors: rocking, hand-flapping, spinning, etc.—these are ways to regulate and ground oneself, not symptoms of disinterest or dysfunction:

  “When you see a young adult that's rocking, a lot of times what they're doing is they're trying to ground themselves or center themselves through vestibular or proprioceptive input, sometimes both.” (F, 37:44)

• Urges society to stop talking down to nonspeakers and to create environments that bring out their strengths, fostering belonging and utility:

  “Everyone wants to have a place in this world… giving them an opportunity to express themselves in a safe environment that doesn’t judge…” (F, 39:23)

6. Challenging Societal Bias and Seeking Empathy

[40:16–41:44]

• Katie Asher critiques the use of IQ tests and the system’s labeling of intent and ability:

  “Those tests are an insufficient measure of intent, of intelligence, of desire, and they should never even be part of education because… they set out to determine who’s worth providing resources to.” (C, 40:26)

• Urges listeners to bring back empathy and curiosity, highlight hope, and recognize the resilience of nonspeakers:

  “He’s incredible because he has the courage to make the world confront the truth about what they have done to others like him.” (C, 41:36)

• Ky Dickens concludes that behaviors previously misunderstood are acts of regulation or resilience—not defiance or detachment:

  “Justice starts with curiosity and then with listening and then with rethinking everything we thought we knew.” (A, 41:53)

7. Key Quotes & Memorable Moments

| Timestamp | Quote | Speaker | |-----------|-------|---------| | 03:09 | "We look at people and we automatically make the assumption that they're experiencing the same things we're experiencing… and that's the disconnect." | Katie Asher (C) | | 05:27 | "In somebody with autism… that subconscious [scanning] isn't subconscious, it's conscious." | Dr. Zelinski (D) | | 09:08 | “…most of them are either switching back and forth… but they don't see it as a whole.” | Dr. Zelinski (D) | | 15:59 | "We're in the 21st century and we're doing eye exams the way they were designed in the 1800s… [Modern methods are] absolutely critical." | Dr. Zelinski (D) | | 20:53 | "If that integration… is not coherent, the information is conflicting… and you can't turn off the vestibular system because it's too powerful." | Dr. Cedric Noel (E) | | 24:34 | “The question is, is it that we have abilities that we are not quite tapping into and those abilities are now being able to flourish?” | Dr. Cedric Noel (E) | | 32:20 | "I don't assume they can't do anything… I assume competence in every way." | Benjamin Keeling (F) | | 34:38 | "He was able to pick up on the energy of that wood through that pile of sawdust." | Benjamin Keeling, on Houston (F) | | 37:44 | "A lot of times what they're doing is they're trying to ground themselves or center themselves through vestibular or proprioceptive input." | Benjamin Keeling (F) | | 41:09 | "You find truth from curiosity, from hope, from love, and you believe in people, and then guess what happens? They perform." | Katie Asher (C) | | 41:53 | “Justice starts with curiosity and then with listening and then with rethinking everything we thought we knew.” | Ky Dickens (A) |

Episode Takeaways

• Nonspeaking behaviors are often misread: What appears as withdrawal or agitation is often a sensory regulation strategy or a response to overwhelming input.
• Perception and physiology matters: Autistic nonspeakers may process the world through heightened peripheral awareness, unique sensory synesthesia, and motor differences—not less, just different.
• Empathy and curiosity are prerequisites for justice: Labels like “low functioning” or “uninterested” do profound harm; society must believe in capability, design supportive spaces, and recognize intelligence beyond speech.
• Expert collaboration is key: Understanding and supporting nonspeakers emerges from integrating lived experience, innovative therapy, and groundbreaking neuroscience.
• Transformation is possible: Changing systems—education, healthcare, public attitudes—starts with questioning the old assumptions and listening deeply to those so often unheard.

Next episode drops every other Sunday. Stay kind, curious, and keep your mind open.