GAL130 - Do You Know What This Stuff About Mediators Means? I'm Genuinely Asking. - The Ten Minute Bible Hour Podcast

Podcast Summary: The Ten Minute Bible Hour Podcast

Episode: GAL130 - Do You Know What This Stuff About Mediators Means? I'm Genuinely Asking

Host: Matt Whitman
Date: February 21, 2025

Episode Overview

In this candid episode, Matt Whitman delves into a notoriously complex passage in Galatians 3:19-20. He reflects on the role of mediators in God's covenants, particularly regarding the Law given to Moses and the earlier promise to Abraham. With habitual humor and humility, Matt admits his own uncertainty, modeling honest biblical study and interpretation for listeners.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Honest Engagement with Difficult Scripture (00:00 - 03:00)

Matt opens by acknowledging the challenge of working verse-by-verse through the Bible, admitting that some passages leave even seasoned readers confused.
- Quote: "You don't know things. This is one of those times... I come back to the microphone late into the evening... Still don't know." (00:32)
He assures listeners that wrestling with the text is part of the process, paralleling his experience to Peter's comment about Paul's writings being "challenging to understand."

2. Setting the Theological Context (03:00 - 05:20)

Recaps Paul’s larger argument in Galatians:
- God made an unbreakable promise to Abraham—foundational and unaltered.
- The Law, given 430 years later via Moses and "mediating angels," does not override the promise but serves a specific role.
Matt summarizes that salvation and righteousness come by God's action and faith, anchored in the Abrahamic promise, not by works of the law.
- Quote: "If there is to be life for salvation or right standing before God...it's not because of anything we do. It's because of God's character and his work. Just like the deal he made with Abraham." (04:20)

3. The Confusing Passage: Mediation and its Meaning (05:20 - 09:40)

Matt reads Galatians 3:19-20 aloud to highlight its enigmatic language about mediators and God's unity.
- Passage read: “The law was put into effect through angels by a mediator. A mediator, however, does not represent just one party, but God is one.”
He confesses: "Bro, I don't know. It's hard." (05:34)
Two interpretive possibilities Matt explores:
- Mediation emphasizes Abraham's promise: The Abrahamic covenant’s lack of a mediator (just God and Abraham) makes it more direct, intimate, and foundational than the mediated Mosaic law.
- Moses as mediator: Moses represents the people before God, whereas Abraham’s covenant was a direct encounter—implying greater power, unity, or efficacy in the Abrahamic promise.
- Quote: "The fact that somehow mediation was in place between God and Moses through angels...makes the deal with Abraham...more powerful, more efficacious. It's the bigger thing." (06:47)
- Quote: "With the covenant with Abraham, it was just straight God to Abraham...no priest or human mediator involved." (07:29)

4. Reflections on Biblical Clarity and Hermeneutics (09:40 - 12:15)

Matt underscores that unclear passages (like this one) must be interpreted in light of clear scriptural truths.
- Quote: "One of the most important principles of interpreting anything...is we interpret the less clear in light of the more clear..." (10:30)
He likens this to everyday conversations—don’t let one murky moment override years of clarity in a relationship.

5. Transition to Next Episode & Theological Reassurance (12:15 - 13:45)

Paul’s rhetorical question in the next verse assures us: "Is the law therefore opposed to the promises of God? Absolutely not."
Matt interprets this as reinforcing the unified and cohesive nature of God’s redemptive plan: the law is temporary and subservient, designed to highlight transgressions and be fulfilled in Christ, but never overriding the bedrock promise to Abraham.
- Quote: "Whatever the case, Paul is saying the promise to Abraham is still on. It was good. God nailed it on that one..." (13:18)

6. Humanizing the Process (13:45 - end)

Matt humorously admits to being physically uncomfortable struggling with the passage: "I'm sweaty. Like I'm having a psychosomatic physical reaction to not knowing exactly what this is."
He leaves space for audience input, welcomes feedback, and models humility as a student of scripture.
- Quote: "Honestly, I don't mind looking like an idiot in front of you. I think that's okay. And it's part of the process." (14:10)

Notable Quotes & Timestamps

"Bro, I don't know. It's hard." — Matt (05:34)
"The fact that somehow mediation was in place between God and Moses through angels...makes the deal with Abraham...more powerful, more efficacious." — Matt (06:47)
"One of the most important principles of interpreting anything...is we interpret the less clear in light of the more clear..." — Matt (10:30)
"Honestly, I don't mind looking like an idiot in front of you. I think that's okay. And it's part of the process." — Matt (14:10)
"This is weird. I'm sweaty. Like I'm having a psychosomatic physical reaction to not knowing exactly what this is..." — Matt (13:55)

Takeaways

Big Idea: The Abrahamic promise is foundational and more direct than the mediated law; everything centers on God’s initiative and unity.
Matt’s Approach: Honest, thoughtful engagement, openness to not knowing, invitation to communal study.
For Listeners: Wrestling with tough passages is normal—even for those who teach and host Bible podcasts. Faithful interpretation means humility and context.

Next episode: Matt promises to continue exploring this theme, especially the unity between law and promise, and encourages listener interaction and feedback.

Transcript

A (0:00)

Foreign. Sometimes in the course of having a Bible podcast where you just pick a book and you go through every single word and verse of that book, no matter how long it takes, sometimes in the course of that, you. You don't know things. This is one of those times. A lot of times I don't know things. I sit down at the microphone, I'm like, huh, you know what? I'm not actually sure what I make of that. I'm not going to record just yet. This might take all day, but I'm going to read and I'm going to think. And then I come back to the microphone late into the evening and put something down on a track here, because I'm trying to make sense of it. But sometimes I just. Even after putting a lot of thought into it, I don't know, I'm really not sure. And this is one of those passages. I know what Paul is arguing for here in Galatians 3. I'm tracking with the logic of the whole book of Galatians. It's hard at first glance, but if you slow it down and just think, you can figure out what he's doing. I think we're seeing it pretty clearly here. Clearly, Paul is saying that there was a promise that God made to Abraham and that that promise is a heavy lift on God's part. God is putting in place a redemptive plan. He's doing it through the descendants of Abra. God is being merciful in all of this. And Abraham set an example for all of us by believing God, and it was credited to him as righteousness. That promise is not broken. It hasn't changed. It's absolutely steady. And then Paul is saying, 430 years after that promise to Abraham, God gave the law to Moses through mediating angels. And that didn't change anything about the promise. It. It was added because of certain transgressions, and later it would be fulfilled, completed in Christ. Okay, I think I get it. So if there is to be life for salvation or right standing before God, if we're able to get that, it's not because of anything we do. It's because of God's character and his work. Just like the deal he made with Abraham. However, the law helps spell out the story and it points out our need. And it's in place to bring order out of chaos, where God's people might have otherwise done insane, immoral things. Yeah, I think I get. But this passage right here, this next little movement in Paul's thought, bro, I don't know. It's hard. So I'm going to read it to you. We'll speculate about it. I don't think it changes anything about our read on the full book, but it's just a difficult turn of a phrase and I've read a lot of other people's opinions on it, and I still don't know. So here you go. Galatians 3:19. Paul says, what then was the purpose of the law? Wonderful job of teeing that up with a rhetorical question. Well, he goes on, the law was added because of transgressions, as we talked about two days ago, until the seed that is Christ, to whom the promise referred, had come. Ah, well, that was yesterday's conversation. I'm getting, I'm getting. But now this is the part where it gets a little bit tricky. We'll see. Maybe you know better than I do what to do with it. The law was put into effect through angels by a mediator. Okay, so that's a nod back to some of the details about how the law was being given to Moses. And apparently there was some kind of mediation involving angels that was going on there. Okay, great. He goes on, verse 20. A mediator, however, does not represent just one party, but God is one. And then he's kind of on to the next thought. Let me read it to you again. Just seriously, just listen to it again. Let it sink in. What then was the purpose of the law? It was added because of transgressions until the seed to whom the promise referred had come. No problem. The law was put into effect through angels by a mediator. A mediator, however, does not represent just one party, but God is one. I think, and this is my best guess, I've read a bunch of people's takes on this. I don't find any of them to be totally satisfying either. But my best guess is that somehow, in the mind of the original audience and in the mind of Paul, the fact that somehow mediation was in place between God and Moses through angels, and there was no mediator when God made the deal with Abraham, that that makes the deal with Abraham, in addition to being older and the first deal, it makes that more powerful, more efficacious. It's the bigger thing. And so the law should be interpreted in light of the promise to Abraham. Another way that I've thought this could be read is that the law was put into effect through angels by a mediator. But the real mediator here is Moses. That Moses is kind of the mediator, a go between between God and man. And that's what we're supposed to focus on in that turn of a phrase. But with the covenant with Abraham, it was just straight God to Abraham. There wasn't like a priest or a human mediator involved there. It was just God to a guy. And then that's kind of it. A mediator, however, does not represent just one party, but God is one. So I feel like there's a lot of language swirling around here about the unified plan of God, the unified character of God not being chaos. Honestly, maybe there are a bunch of you who are listening to this right now and you're like, this is really fun. The Bible is making this guy who normally is somewhat cohesive in talking about the Bible sound completely clueless. Clearly the text means this. How can you not see that, Matt? To which I would say, good. It is good that this document would humble me from time to time. Again, I would point you to what St. Peter says in the Bible about the writings of Paul. He says they are scripture and that Paul uses ideas that are sometimes challenging to understand. So I'm just going going to play that card right here, right now on this one. But big picture, I don't think this changes anything. Even if I can't tell you exactly what Paul is assuming the audience would be thinking and what Paul has going on in his head about the ground rules for mediated givings of law and mediation between God and man, even if I can't tell you exactly what the mechanics of it are, I can tell you that it is operating in support of his ongoing thesis, which is the promise to Abraham predates everything. The promise to Abraham reveals the great big redemptive plan that you and I went through the whole Bible and looked at a bunch of. It's everywhere. It's all over the Old Testament, New Testament. It never changes. The plan never changes. This is always the deal. Any right. Standing before God is by the work of God through faith. The law was added later, not because of the promise, didn't work out, but because of transgressions. And the law was slated to be eventually fulfilled. It has been fulfilled in Christ. And then Paul says, guys, think about how mediators are. And when you have one, that means this. And if you don't have one, it's better. And it means this, obviously. Okay, maybe it was super obvious to the original audience, maybe it's super obvious to you. The exact mechanics of it are not super obvious to me, but I do in the larger context, see what he's getting at. And one of the most important principles of interpreting Anything or anyone when we talk to other people is we interpret the less clear in light of the more clear and not the other way around. We don't even need to be told that that's a rule. You do it if there's somebody you love and they say something that seems to fly in the face just as a passing remark of everything about your relationship. You assume you heard them wrong or they misspoke, or you just misunderstood the point they were trying to make. Theoretically, you don't say our entire relationship is a lie, all 40 years I've known, you mean nothing because of what you said real quick there as we were getting off the phone. No, you interpret naturally the less clear in light of the more clear. I'm just going to play that card. I'm going to apply the exact same thing to this passage right here. Well, part of the reason that I take the gist of this stuff about mediators, that I don't totally get to be a nod toward God's unity and the cohesiveness of his plan is because Paul is about to throw out another rhetorical question that he's going to deal with here. In verse 21, he goes on to ask, is the law therefore opposed to the promises of God? And. And he's going to answer his own question, absolutely not. So this means the next chunk of stuff we're going to look at from Paul here is arguing for the unity of God, the unity of God's plan, how this is all cohesive and it all works together, and it all comes into crystal clear focus when you understand what the promise to Abraham is and how the law relates to that. So maybe as we get into this next movement, this next rhetorical question and his answer to it, maybe you and I will be able to make more sense of the mediator thing. Maybe you already have it solved and you're like, this is the funniest episode ever, because it's really not that hard and you just couldn't get it. Ha, ha, ha, ha ha. That's fun. And honestly, I don't mind looking like an idiot in front of you. I think that's okay. And it's part of the process. Whatever the case, Paul is saying the promise to Abraham is still on. It was good. God nailed it on that one. When he added the law 430 years later because of transgressions, and then had the law fulfilled in Christ, he nailed all of that too, at every step of the way. And all of this is functioning cohesively and the law is subservient to the promise, playing exactly the role that God intended it to play. This is weird. I'm sweaty. Like I'm having a psychosomatic physical reaction to not knowing exactly what this is or how to articulate it. That's really funny. I think I'm gonna go shower or something and just move on as I'm recording this one. It's for a Friday, so I'll have the weekend to think about it. We'll pick it up next time around and see where it goes from here. I look forward to your feedback. I'm Matt. This is the 10 Minute Bible Podcast. Let's do this again soon.