383: How Small Creators Land Big Brand Deals in 2025 (Complete Sponsorship Guide)

Summary

Episode Summary: The Think Media Podcast - Episode 383: How Small Creators Land Big Brand Deals in 2025 (Complete Sponsorship Guide)
Release Date: January 24, 2025
Host: Sean Cannell
Guest: Justin Moore, Sponsorship Coach, Founder of Creator Wizard, Author of Sponsor Magnet

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Introduction to Sponsorship Strategies

In Episode 383 of The Think Media Podcast, Sean Cannell welcomes Justin Moore, a renowned sponsorship coach and author of Sponsor Magnet. The episode delves deep into actionable strategies that small creators can employ to secure lucrative brand deals, demonstrating that success isn't solely reserved for those with massive audiences.

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Misconceptions Costing Creators Money

Timestamp: [03:14]

Justin Moore opens the conversation by addressing a fundamental misunderstanding many creators face: the belief that only channels with a large subscriber base can attract significant brand partnerships.

Justin Moore: "The number one misconception costing creators money is thinking that the only way to get deals is through a certain number of subscribers or audience size."

April Moore reinforces this by sharing their personal experience:

April Moore: "We've generated over $5 million in brand partnerships without the largest influence numbers. Our professionalism and consistent delivery have been key."

Key Takeaway:
Success in brand partnerships hinges more on professionalism, relevance, and the ability to deliver results than merely on audience size.

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The Power of Niche Audiences

Timestamp: [05:58]

Justin emphasizes the advantage of targeting niche markets, illustrating that specialized audiences can be more attractive to brands.

Justin Moore: "The more niche you are, the more opportunities there are. Brands have limited places to spend their sponsorship budgets."

Example:
Dr. Alex from Digital Pathology Place effectively secures sponsorships despite a modest viewership by catering to a highly specialized audience, making her channel invaluable to medical equipment companies.

Key Takeaway:
Focusing on a specific niche can enhance attractiveness to brands looking for targeted marketing opportunities.

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Strategic Pricing for Sponsorships

Timestamp: [06:32]

April introduces a unique pricing strategy that enabled Paul Jameson to land a six-figure sponsorship deal.

Case Study: Paul Jameson & John Deere
Instead of traditional sponsorships, Paul was hired to conduct live podcasting sessions at John Deere's booth during a major trade show. This integration went beyond standard video mentions, showcasing a deeper partnership.

Key Takeaway:
Thinking outside the box and offering unique value propositions can lead to high-value sponsorships beyond traditional ad placements.

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Building Recurring Sponsorships

Timestamp: [08:50]

Justin discusses the importance of nurturing long-term relationships with brands. April suggests delivering exceptional results in initial partnerships to pave the way for recurring deals.

April Moore: "Blow their socks off on the first deal, then broach the topic of a longer-term engagement."

Key Takeaway:
Establishing trust and demonstrating consistent value can transform one-off deals into enduring partnerships.

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The ARC Framework: Aligning with Brand Goals

Timestamp: [16:33]

April introduces the ARC Framework, a strategic approach to understanding and aligning with brand objectives.

1. Awareness: Helping brands promote new products or campaigns.
2. Repurposing: Creating content that brands can use across their platforms.
3. Conversion: Driving sales, leads, or sign-ups through content.

April Moore: "When engaging with a brand, ask what success looks like for them and tailor your pitch accordingly."

Key Takeaway:
Understanding and aligning with the brand's specific goals ensures more effective and meaningful collaborations.

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Navigating Licensing and Usage Rights

Timestamp: [19:07]

April and Justin delve into the complexities of licensing agreements, emphasizing the importance of capping usage rights to protect creators.

Justin Moore: "Capping usage rights at a reasonable duration, like one or two years, prevents long-term exploitation of your content."

Practical Advice:
April recommends charging a percentage of the base deal for extended usage rights, ensuring fair compensation for content reuse.

Key Takeaway:
Always negotiate and clearly define usage rights to maintain control over your content and its applications.

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The ROPE Method for Pitching

Timestamp: [26:48]

April outlines the ROPE Method, an effective framework for crafting compelling sponsorship pitches:

1. Relevant: Ensure your pitch aligns with the brand’s current or past campaigns.
2. Organic: Link your proposal to existing content that shows audience affinity.
3. Proof: Demonstrate past successes and results you've achieved for other brands.
4. Easy to Execute: Present clear and actionable steps on how you will deliver value.

Example Pitch:
Using Canon as a case study, April demonstrates how to research a brand’s past campaigns on Instagram, tailor a relevant proposal, and present a clear plan for collaboration.

Key Takeaway:
A structured and well-researched pitch increases the likelihood of securing brand partnerships by clearly demonstrating value and alignment.

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Enhancing Professionalism and Customer Service

Timestamp: [39:23]

Justin emphasizes that professionalism can set small creators apart from larger influencers.

Justin Moore: "Be nice, be polite, be professional, turn stuff in on time. It goes a long way."

Real-World Inspiration:
Justin shares stories of businesses succeeding due to their commitment to excellence and professionalism, highlighting that these traits are equally crucial for creators seeking sponsorships.

Key Takeaway:
Professionalism and excellent customer service build trust and longevity in brand partnerships, often leading to higher rates and more opportunities.

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Overview of Sponsor Magnet

Timestamp: [46:12]

April provides an overview of her book, Sponsor Magnet, which encapsulates her 15+ years of experience in securing brand deals.

April Moore: "Sponsor Magnet walks you through the 8 Steps sponsorship wheel methodology, turning sponsorships into predictable income."

Book Highlights:

• ROPE Method: Crafting effective pitches.
• ARC Framework: Aligning with brand goals.
• Negotiation Tactics: Strategies for fair compensation.
• Contract Management: Navigating legalities and protecting your rights.

Key Takeaway:
Sponsor Magnet serves as a comprehensive guide for creators aiming to systematically secure and manage brand partnerships.

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The DO Rule: Deliverables, Usage Rights, Exclusivity

Timestamp: [48:33]

April introduces the DO Rule, a framework to ensure clarity and protection in sponsorship agreements:

1. Deliverables: Clearly define what content and actions are expected.
2. Usage Rights: Outline how and where the brand can utilize your content.
3. Exclusivity: Specify any limitations on working with competitors.

April Moore: "A creator agreed to five years of exclusivity for a free mattress, which limited future opportunities significantly."

Key Takeaway:
Clearly articulated deliverables, fair usage rights, and reasonable exclusivity clauses are essential to safeguarding your interests in sponsorship deals.

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Leveraging AI for Contract Review

Timestamp: [50:00]

Justin shares insights on using AI tools to review and identify red flags in contracts, making the negotiation process more accessible for creators.

Justin Moore: "AI can help identify key issues in contracts, saving time and potentially reducing the need for expensive legal consultations."

Practical Tips:

• Use AI to extract plain language summaries of contracts.
• Identify and question excessive exclusivity or usage clauses.
• Leverage AI to compare contract terms against best practices.

Key Takeaway:
AI tools can empower creators to better understand and negotiate contracts, ensuring they're not inadvertently compromising their future opportunities.

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Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Timestamp: [55:42]

As the episode wraps up, Justin encourages listeners to invest in resources like Sponsor Magnet to enhance their sponsorship strategies.

Justin Moore: "Systems are the secret. Investing in structured methodologies can transform one-off deals into a sustainable business."

Final Advice from April:

April Moore: "Educate yourself on professionalism and the intricacies of sponsorships. It's not just about content numbers but how you engage and deliver value to brands."

Key Takeaway:
By adopting strategic frameworks, maintaining professionalism, and leveraging available tools, small creators can effectively compete for and secure substantial brand partnerships.

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Main Takeaways:

1. Professionalism Matters: Consistently delivering quality work and maintaining professional relationships can outweigh large audience sizes.
2. Niche Focus: Targeting specific audiences can attract brands looking for precise market segments.
3. Strategic Frameworks: Utilizing methods like ARC, ROPE, and DO ensures comprehensive and effective approach to sponsorships.
4. Fair Contracting: Always negotiate usage rights and exclusivity clauses to protect long-term interests.
5. Continuous Learning: Investing in resources and education, such as Sponsor Magnet, equips creators with the necessary tools for sustained success.

For more insights and strategies on growing your YouTube channel and securing brand deals, be sure to subscribe to The Think Media Podcast and check out Justin Moore’s book, Sponsor Magnet, available at sponsormagnet.com.

Transcript

[Sean Cannell]

Hey, before we jump into today's episode.

[Justin Moore]

I've got a question for you.

[Sean Cannell]

Is your YouTube channel failing to bring in consistent leads and sales? If you'd say yes, then we are hosting an event that's probably perfect for you. I want to personally invite you to join me and the Think Media team this February in Las Vegas for an exclusive in person YouTube growth mastermind. Seats are limited, so make sure to secure your ticket today@thinkmedia media mastermind.com and over an intensive day and a half, I'll show you my proven strategies for creating videos that attract the right audience, generate real revenue and drive more sales. You'll craft your next winning video, learn.

[Justin Moore]

The latest strategies for leveraging AI and.

[Sean Cannell]

Attracting high quality leads, all without the complex funnels or expensive ads that can be so frustrating. Since we keep this Mastermind small and intimate spots are extremely limited and and filling up fast. So secure your spot for February 21st.

[Justin Moore]

Through the 22nd, 2025 and you can.

[Sean Cannell]

Apply for this event at thinkmediamastermind.com before the seats are gone. Now, as of recording this, we're looking for about 10 more people, so grab your seat now. All right, let's jump into the podcast.

[Justin Moore]

We're gonna be breaking down how small creators can land big brand deals and creators of any size.

[April Moore]

It's so, so important when you are first engaging with a brand to ask.

[Justin Moore]

Them this question and I' you've generated over $5 million in brand partnerships. What's the number one misconception costing creators money right now?

[April Moore]

Your pitch has to be relevant to a campaign that the brand is either currently running or has run in the past. You can tie your pitch back to organic content that you've already posted that illustrates that your audience has an affinity for their brand or their product. In my experience, actually, the more niche you are, the more opportunities there are. These brands, these potential sponsors don't have a lot of places to spend this.

[Justin Moore]

Ca like nobody else is doing that. Like, this is why people should subscribe to the Think Media podcast if you want to tap into some of the best frameworks that will help you negotiate, help you raise your rates, help you get started if you have a smaller or new channel, or if you are a larger creator, help you earn more. We're also going to be talking about the counterintuitive pricing strategy that landed a six figure brand deal, a single email template that landed deals with Fortune 500 brands, and how small creators can get paid more than influencers with bigger audiences. So stick around until the end for that today's guest is Justin Moore, who is a sponsorship coach and the founder of Creator Wizard. He's also the author of the brand new book Sponsor Magnet. And he is a loved guest of the Think Media podcast. And he's back for today's episode. Justin, welcome to the show, dude.

[April Moore]

Beloved guest. That's a title. I'm going to claim that title. I love that one. Glad to be back. Sean. What's going on, man?

[Justin Moore]

Well, let's go zero to 100 real quick. And I'm curious, you've generated over $5 million in brand partnerships. What's the number one misconception costing creators money right now?

[April Moore]

I think the biggest thing is thinking that the only way in which you can get deals is if you have a certain number of YouTube subscribers or a certain size of your audience. If you know, my wife and I started our first YouTube channel in 2009. You know, as you mentioned, we've done millions of dollars worth of deals. Five over 550 deals, actually. And if you looked at our quote unquote influence today, it's basically the lowest it's ever been in the last 15 years. Candidly, if you looked at our viewership and numbers and all that. But we're making the most amount of money that we've ever made each year since then because we know what product we're selling to these brands. The product is not views. The product is not reach. The product is professionalism. They know when they reach out to April and Justin, they know what they're going to get. We're going to hit every deadline, we're going to hit every talking point with aplomb. If they come back to us with some feedback. Hey, can you revise this, you know, little 20 seconds here. Do a new voiceover. We say, sure, I got you, no problem. And so of all of the deals that we do, a huge percentage of them are these recurring relationships that we've developed with brands and agencies over many years. And so if there's one big takeaway that you take from this conversation, it's that it's that there's all these other intangible assets that you can hone and develop as a creator that can help you make more money on deals, man, that's inspiring.

[Justin Moore]

And that means that there is an opportunity for all of us. Before I ask this next question, some creators are listening and I'd love for them to know about this idea of nano micro and like macro influencers and what's possible for channels that are smaller.

[April Moore]

So let me Share. Answer that question with a real story from one of my coaching clients. Her name is Dr. Alex. Okay. So she has a business called Digital Pathology Place. So she's a veterinarian, a physician, and she talks all about this really kind of very hyper specific topic of pathology, digital pathology. And so she is not getting tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of views on her videos, on her podcast episodes, she's getting hundreds or thousands. But do you know who's in her audience? It's the doctors, it's the lab techs, it's the people who work at these medical device companies. And she is absolutely crushing it with brand sponsorships because you know, these companies who are manufacturing the equipment that these people need, where do they market? It's really difficult to find out places to deploy their marketing capital. And so, you know, when you think about kind of these hyper specific creators niche and you know, in these very specific industries, that may not seem like, I don't know, is there any brands that would want to collaborate with me? In my experience, actually, the more niche you are, the more opportunities there are. Because these brands, these potential sponsors don't have a lot of places to spend this cash.

[Justin Moore]

That's like one of the quotes of the year. The more niche you are, the more opportunities there are. It so speaks to just being strategic. There's a classic marketing book called positioning, like really narrowing in on your position. And it's exciting because in the creator economy, again, I think everyone's chasing a lot of times when we start virality and millions of views, but you can make big money with a small channel. And we're going to continue to unpack those strategies. But can you actually walk us through the specific pricing strategy that helped Paul Jameson land his six figure sponsorship?

[April Moore]

Okay, I love it. So Paul Jameson is the host of a podcast called the Green Industry Podcast. So he's on YouTube, he's on social media as well. But what he does, you're going to love this, Sean. He teaches lawn care professionals how to grow their business. That's his business. And he's doing 120, 150,000 downloads a month on his podcast. Right. And he is locking in these huge deals with the likes of Lowe's and John Deere and a lot of these mower companies, equipment companies. Because again, where do they, if they want to sell these products, where can they turn? They can advertise in the, you know, prehistoric trade magazines. They can try and run, you know, targeted ads, maybe on Facebook. That's kind of hard. But you know what they would love to do is they'd love to be able to align themselves with the largest voice in their industry who is speaking to those professionals who are buying that equipment. And that person is Paul. One thing that I think a lot of people, when they think about a brand deal or they think about a sponsorship, they think about, oh, I'm going to like talk about this brand for 60 to 90 seconds on my YouTube video. Like an integration. Right. You know the. One of the most recent deals that Paul inked with John Deere, they hired him to do a live podcasting session in their booth at the largest trade show in their industry. It's called Equip. It was back in October and they basically said, he's the largest name. And they said, hey, we want you in our booth for the entire three days. So what he did, he had all of his friends come through and record episodes. He had all the people on the marketing team record episodes from John Deere. And so does that sound like a typical sponsorship? Not really. Right. And so I hope that this is kind of stretching everyone's imaginations of like what can actually be possible if you develop an expertise in a very specific thing.

[Justin Moore]

Now I'm also curious. That's pretty inspiring. And it speaks to just the evolution of the creator economy and things being so much different than we may have think they look. We just think it's maybe like one video, one payment and that's what it is. When you also talk about six figure sponsorships, do you encourage people to pursue longer term deals? Whatever details you could share of that six figure sponsorship, of how it might have been structured that could be different than how we would assume.

[April Moore]

Yeah. So of course like I want to respect Paul's privacy and so he, you know, I can't talk the exact specifics of like what the deal dynamics are, but rest assured, like he's, he's doing all sorts of types of deals. I would say some that are recurring, some that are, you know, these one off kind of very large.

[Justin Moore]

Well, show me the type that's like put.

[April Moore]

Yeah.

[Justin Moore]

Paul aside, like if there's types long, short, you know, let's, so let's, let's.

[April Moore]

Actually split hairs real quickly here because the recurring sponsorships are the dream for anyone regardless of what the cadence is. Right. Just something more than just like a one off thing. The challenge with trying to pitch a brand that you've never worked with on a recurring deal is that they have been burned a lot by creators in the past where a creator has promised the world to them and failed to deliver. They weren't professional, they didn't turn things in on time, the work quality was substandard. And so they're very nervous before they have any sort of experience working with you. It's going to be pretty hard to convince a sponsor to sign on to a 12 month deal with you. And so my sincere advice is in the beginning just blow their absolute socks off on this first deal and then that's when you can broach this topic of like a longer term engagement. And so once you do illustrate that you're awesome and you had great results from that first partnership. One of the things I talk about is the importance of putting together what's called a post campaign report where you actually are not just sending screenshots to them when they're asking, you're saying, hey, not only am I going to show you the quantitative performance of this campaign, but I'm going to share you some qualitative insights that I had. Hey, I actually had people dming me or responding to my email blast that I made about this partnership and they said xyz I actually. And maybe it was a, maybe a neutral or a negative comment. It wasn't like, oh I love the brand. It was like this brand sucks and here's the reason why it sucks. You know, I. And you say, hey, I got like five comments like that. I actually think we should lean into that in another integration together where we lean into this objection that people are having about your product and allowing you to say, hey, oh, we actually reformulated the product six months ago. Like maybe people don't know that. Let's talk about that in the next version. And so a lot of it comes down to actually cycling feedback from your audience back to the brand so you can have some insights. What's what to target for some additional engagements.

[Sean Cannell]

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[April Moore]

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[Sean Cannell]

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[Justin Moore]

Recurring sponsorships are the dream. But chances are, start going, you know, from not knowing the brand or working with them to reoccurring, you don't even know if you want to do it necessarily. So that's probably not step one. And in a new year, being aware that brands have been burned. So also be thinking about, okay, one of the goals maybe is to let's lock in something that can essentially be a chance to date each other before we get married for a year and, or six months and blow their socks off, do a post campaign report and then keep the conversation going. Am I hearing you correctly?

[April Moore]

100%. 100%. Because again, especially when you give them that post campaign report that no other creator is doing, they're going to say, wow, this person is actually invested in the outcome of what we're trying to accomplish as a brand. They're not just in it for the money. They also do you know, you know why people don't do this, Sean? You know why people don't come back to the brand with this type of data is they are terrified of asking the brand, hey, how did it go? Because they're worried that the brand said, hey, thanks for asking. It was awful. You suck. We hate you. Never talk to us again. That's what they're worried. I get it. That's what, you know, oh, you didn't drive any sales. Like, don't you know, how dare you. We want our money back. This type of thing. In all reality, a brand will almost never say that to you. First of all, if they say, hey, it went awesome, now is your ticket to say, okay, great, let's do another, let's do another campaign together, right? But if they say, well it just went okay, you know, we were hoping it drove more views or more sales or whatever, that's your chance to lean into it, right? You know the Nelson Mandela has this famous quote, he said, you know, I never lose. I either win or learn. And this is the mindset that you need to take into asking these questions to these brands that you're never going to lose. You're all, you're going to learn something and maybe, maybe it'll actually lead to you improving the way in which you actually fulfill these sponsorships brands.

[Justin Moore]

I'm curious your take on this. Some of the things they still do often is they do things like trade shows and they sponsor events and they set up a booth and sometimes because this has happened for us a lot and sometimes like I'm surprised by their expectations, you know, if we do a physical event, they might be willing to pay 5, 10, 15, 20, 25, $30,000 and they fly their team out and they pay for their team's meals and they pay for their team's hotels and they do all this stuff. I'm like this is a pretty. And they'll sometimes do this for an event that is 500 people or less, 300 people or less. And I, I am invested in brands, what winning looks like for them as I've grown in my career and I found that sometimes like their expectations just trying to affirm what you're saying are like lower than I would think. It's sometimes like I don't like directly. They're probably not going to make 40 grand necessarily. Like maybe they're looking at LTV, they're looking at brand awareness. But sometimes it's like what are they also in it for? They want like photos at the booth, they want the association with your brand, the long time term awareness. They have a marketing budget to spend, an event budget to spend. So I guess I'm just trying to say that like if they said it went okay, you could tell me maybe deeper insights on this. Like ROI of sales of course is the thing we're solving for. But, but then your ability to lean deeper, they still might be kind of happy because they got some assets, they can use those assets for like a year later and you could leverage off of that to like not be overly stressed. I mean because again they can self define whether they like to work with you or not. But lean into it. I just am affirming like if you lean into it, it's like, well, let's keep working and like what else could we do for you? Or what else would make it. And the definition of their win could be broader than like how many views the video got or what their win could look like next time if you stay creative. Any thoughts on that observation?

[April Moore]

Dude, not only is that observation so sound, but I've actually codified this, which is into something that I call the ARC framework. So there's three goals that every brand will have when they want to collaborate with you. Arc. That first is awareness. Where they are, you know, have a new campaign for a new product that they're launching. Maybe they were only available in the uk, now they're coming to the US or maybe they're running a seasonal promotion that is an awareness focused campaign. The R in Ark is repurposing. So what you just mentioned, maybe a big goal of theirs is, you know what, we don't have a lot of great content that we can post on our platforms, on our social media or run for paid advertising. Man, we would love to get, you know, photos, videos from Grow With Video Live and be able to repurpose that and show our brand as advocates of the community. That's huge for us. We would love that. And then the C in Ark is conversion. So it's that last thing you said about, yeah, we want to drive sales, we want to drive leads, we want to drive trial signups to our software. And so it's so, so important when you first engaging with the brand to ask them this question. What would success look like to you? What is your goal? Because what you pitch actually, actually has to change based on that. Not only what your pitch has to change, but what you charge has to change.

[Justin Moore]

Man, that's great. I, I want to lean into the repurposing one right now just to kind of go a little bit deeper. How should we think about charging and protecting ourselves? I think it's one of the last things creators think about is usage rights and perpetuity usage rights. So if we're an early creator sometimes we might think, man, the brand's going to give us 100 bucks, 500 bucks, $1,000 in free product. And it's really cool. And that's happening all over the creator economy for all kinds of small channels. And in that we are happy with the deal because, you know, we're agreeing to it. It's a nice upstart. But in the contract it says we can use your likeness in this content in perpetuity for 10 generations. You know what I mean? Like forever, literally a thousand years from now, we're going to still be able to use this. Now what's also interesting is there's even some public celebrities that have, like, they, their rights were, you know, given away when they were doing advertising 10 years ago. Then they're a famous movie star now, and they're. And that company's still leveraging it and sometimes they can't even do anything about it.

[April Moore]

So it's kind of like Simu Lou, Simu Lu. Do you remember the stock photos that Simu Lu did before he was a celebrity? And they own the rights to that forever. Now he's a famous movie star.

[Justin Moore]

Isn't he in one of the Marvel movies?

[April Moore]

Yeah, yeah, he was. Yeah, exactly.

[Justin Moore]

So Simu Liu is in one of the Marvel movies. Super famous now, but yet that original stock photos he did, he signed away rights. I think I want listeners to see. You never know who you're going to become. You never know. And regardless, it's your likeness anyways. But like, you never know how big you'll become. You'll never know what your, your, your usage and rights would be like. And then if anything, I think there's also something about, like, I think it'd be very reasonable to give somebody a year, two, even three, because in some cases what we're talking about is you don't know how long your career is going to be. So you don't know that, like, you're, you're probably not going to be in Marvel movies in one or two years, but you might be in five to 10, like the places you could be. And so even if a brand's like, we for sure need to use this, you're like, well, 24 months might be a great cap. So it's literally not in perpetuity. Is so insane. Perpetuity, literally forever is crazy. So thoughts on this? How you would price different things that you would look for in contracts, you know, just red flags. So you maybe or, or just things like, easy, like I get. You want to use this and you want to run ads on it. And that's part of why you're paying me even for maybe UGC too. Like, even if you're just going to use me on your website, but do you think capping it at 1, 2 years and. Or asking for just a higher price? And a lot of creators listening to this are afraid to make these pushbacks because it's like, man, I don't want to mess up the deal.

[April Moore]

Right, right. So 100% you should be capping the duration of the usage rights for sure. Because not only, as you said, could things change a lot in, you know, a relatively short time frame, but in reality the likelihood that a brand is really going to use this asset of yours forever is super low. So being able to educate them, they, they may just saying, oh well, this is standard. We get perpetuated perpetual usage rights for everyone. They, they try to pull this card on you and you say, okay, well I understand that, I respect that. You know, in all likelihood this is a seasonal campaign that I'm going to be talking about doing this UGC for you. The likelihood of, you know, you needing this in five years is going to be very unlikely. So you know, capping it at a year is probably, you're going to get a lot of utility out of this for the next year. And so that should be, that should be sufficient. I do have actually though a rule of thumb formula that I talk about in my book, Sponsor Magnet, for pricing these types of things. And so when it comes down to licensing, so if the brand is asking to take your content and use it on their platforms, on their website, on their social media, on an E commerce partner's site or whatever, I advise charging 15% of the base deal size per 30 day period. So if they're, if they're paying you $10,000, let's say for the content creation as part of this project, then you're going to be charging an incremental $1,500 per 30 days. So that's for licensing. However, if they want to actually leverage the content that you natively post on your platform and amplify it or boost it, sometimes called allow listing. This is where you're actually allowing them to basically to get into the back end of your Facebook or Instagram or you're giving them a spark code, it's called on TikTok, to run ads basically with the content you posted, that's more like 25% of the base deal size. So that would be an incremental $2,500 in that example, a month. And so what you'll quickly see actually is that let's say that they wanted rights for six months. You actually might make more money in usage rights than you do in generating the content itself. And this is maybe shocking to some people who hear this, but this is fairly standard in advertising. Brands are used to paying for a fixed fee for the actual generation of the content, but they have to pay the platforms, Facebook, Instagram, YouTub, etc to continue running this ad.

[Justin Moore]

You know what's interesting is that I, right now we have a, a brand that is running ads on an organic YouTube video. But you're kind of shifting my thinking because I was like, well, we actually make a little bit of ad revenue off of that and it's actually still to our affiliate links. Maybe. Let me tell me, tell me if you would in my case, if it'd be different. I was like, sounds like a win win. Like you're gonna drive views on that video up. I will get 50% of those dollars in the YouTube Partner Program ad revenue and YouTube will get the other 50%. They're just probably organic. They're clearly organically wanting to push awareness of their product harder than the, than the organic reach of my video. And then as a result though the call to action in the video is to the description. So it, it is I. Attribution for affiliate sales is sometimes tough for me generally, but nevertheless, I guarantee it'll drive. We already know we can attribute some and we'll attribute more because they're purely putting, you know, more paid ads behind that video. It's fascinating to me though that you would say that'd be an additional 25% just to allow them to do that. So based on my logic, would you still say that's the same thing.

[April Moore]

You absolutely should be charging them for the privilege to run ads to your organic content 100%. And in fact, this should not be an either or. This should be something you negotiate into the deal and say, hey, in addition to running ads on, on this YouTube video, which is great, awesome, great for everyone, you should be running ads on, you should, you know, be running ads on your platforms with this content. Here's the, here's the file, here's a 30 second cut down of it. Here. Go run ads on Facebook and Instagram. You know, go buck wild embedding this on your website, on E Commerce, whatever, because they, you never know what's going to perform the best. This, this is the beauty slash curse of advertising is that you never really know what's going to be the most efficient ad spend, what, what cut of that asset. I could share a quick story here. When I ran an influencer marketing agency for about seven years, a very large phone carrier hired our company to hire a bunch of creators, create some content. But the primary reason that they wanted to run this campaign was to get the assets to run for ads. And so we got, I don't know, something 10 to 15 different videos and assets from these creators. And there was this one video in particular that was super high quality. It was like super polished profess old beautiful B roll. And I was sure, I was like, man, this video is going to crush as an ad. Like, this is so beautiful. And then we had a smattering of other types of creators. But then there was this one video that was awful. Dude, it looked like it was shot on a potato. It was like on a Nokia like brick phone. It was so low quality. It was super low res. It just was like terrible. And guess which one performed better as an ad?

[Justin Moore]

The baked potato.

[April Moore]

The baked potato, bro, you, you never know like what is going to perform best as an ad. And so it's part of this is like the brand. It's important to like test different things to see which performs the best.

[Justin Moore]

Man, that's very insightful and some very practical tips in regards to especially licensing. It's like a lot of people forget about that. Ask the brands what they want. Use the ARC formula. Awareness, repurposing and conversion could be their goals. Getting clear on their goals. You've also helped creators land deals with major brands. Can you share the email template that's worked best when working with Fortune 500 companies? Obviously it's going to be verbal, whether people watch the video, podcast or audio, but kind of maybe what, what is that outline of that or what's the power of this, the subject line, things like that.

[April Moore]

All right, so I teach a pitching method called the rope method. I talk about it in my book Sponsor Magnet. And basically it's R, O, P, E. So R stands for your pitch has to be relevant to a campaign that the brand is either currently running or has run in the past. O stands for organic, meaning that you can tie your pitch back to organic content that you've posted that illustrates that your audience has an affinity for their brand or their product. P stands for proof, so you can illustrate how you've helped other brands achieve results. And E stands for easy to execute. When the brand says, yeah, oh, this is interesting. What did you have in mind? And so the form that this takes. So actually, should we do a real life teaching example here? This might actually make it really tangible for people. Yeah, give me a brand. Give me a brand, Sean, that you say, oh, this is a dream brand for media. I would love to collaborate one.

[Justin Moore]

Well, we've done it before, but let's just say we want to re engage with Canon cameras, Canon in this year and we've done some stuff over the past, but their staff changes. They're also. They've got a us, but they're Such a global company that sometimes like. And so sometimes too we don't know what their priorities are or what I think their priorities are as far as new cameras or whatever. So that's. Yeah, that's kind of an update. So re engaging with them in our case would be fun.

[April Moore]

Okay. All right. So what I am doing in the background while you were talking about this is I pulled up Canon's Instagram. So I'm looking at Canon usa. Okay. Actually, you know what? I'm gonna share my screen here. How about that? Is that fun? Yeah, I'm gonna share my screen.

[Justin Moore]

If you're listening on audio, this might be one you would come, you know, visit the YouTube channel, check out the screen, share or just listen along and we'll narrate, assuming people are also hearing audio only.

[April Moore]

Okay. All right, so we're here on Canon USA's Instagram and what I'm doing. So first of all, if you're a YouTuber listening to this and you're thinking, I'm not on Instagram, I hate Instagram. I don't like social media. Look, Instagram is a research tool, okay? Brands are basically telling you what is important to them. They're posting about the campaigns and the things that are important to them. So you know what I'm going to do? Time of recording. You know, we're recording this in January of 2025. But you know what? If we want to pitch Canon, we're not going to pitch a new year resolution. You always want to become a photographer. Get your gear. That's. That's a campaign that was fully baked six months ago, Sean. You know, we want to be pitching to Canon. We want to be pitching spring, summer. We want to know what were they doing last spring or summer. Because in all likelihood, because in all likelihood, they're going to run similar campaigns to that. So what I'm doing is I'm scrolling back, scrolling, scrolling, scrolling. I'm looking. Okay, what were they talking about last year? Right? So of course they're talking about all sorts of cameras that are, that are releasing. Okay, what is this? Harmony at work. Okay, Harmony, here we go. Harmony. There's a URL here. Harmony for every u. I'm just going to open that because I don't know what that is, but I'm curious. I want to find out. I'm scrolling, scrolling, scrolling. Let's see, who's this guy? Canon Explorer of light. So here's a hashtag that we could go down a rabbit hole and see what that's about. See here Fantasy photography. I'm also looking. Okay. Canon Explorer. We are. We are proud to welcome a new class of storytellers to the Canon Explorer of Light program. Okay, so this was in May of 2024. So this looks like they probably identified a group of, I don't know, based on this video. I'm watching maybe six or seven people who are. And they're inducting and, I don't know, some sort of incubator, maybe accelerator to like, you know, help them level up their skills potentially. And so you know what your pitches to them. Sean. Wow, I loved this Canon Explorer of Light program you did last May. We were. I was curious, are you going to be running, inducting another class of storytellers into this program in 2025? What if we partnered together to help recruit for the application process for this next group of people? We have a huge, you know, reach on our YouTube channel, on our newsletter of aspiring filmmakers and storytellers. Why don't we partner to really blow this thing up?

[Justin Moore]

That's the pitch, man. It's so genius. Because then it's also. You've ultimately shown you've done your research. They sh. They can tell that you care. The answer could be as simple as, no, we're not going to do that again. But, and, and like, but you. You've built like nobody else is doing that. Like, this is why people should subscribe to the Think Media podcast, because at this moment in the show, the kind of gems you get, you want to be doing what nobody else is doing, thinking how nobody else is thinking. And it's such a better foot in the door. It just. People could tell you prepared. People can tell you did your research. And that's a gangster tip, too, because to be thoughtful, not even just their Instagram. It's too late if it's the campaign that's happening now. They cooked that up a long time ago. But to go back to the. This previous year's season, it's genius, dude.

[April Moore]

So. So I love what you brought up, which is like, they may not be into this, they may not be doing that program again. But that's not the point. You gave them something tangible that they could react to. They could say, hey, we love your initiative here. You know, so going back to the rope, the template, right, of what you say, it's like the R is the relevancy, right? It's the subject line of this email is hashtag, Canon Explorer of light in 2025, question mark. That's the subject line. They're going to Open that email. They're not going to open 1 million plus subscriber YouTube channel collaboration? Right? Where it's like, oh, this many followers of this many subscribers. Delete ghosts. They don't know who you are. They don't care. What's in it for them? Right. The first line is what we just talked about. It's about this program. And then the o the organic part of this pitch is you're going to link to some sort of similar contest giveaway recruitment thing that you guys have done in the past to try to recruit people. And by the way, if you haven't done something like that in the past, Sean, people listening might be like, well, I've never done something like that before that's relevant to this campaign. You make a post about it proactively before you pitch them. So it may not be super relevant in this scenario, but like you can imagine if you're pitching a food brand or something and they were talking about, you know, the Mediterranean diet or something, you go back and you make a post about the Mediterranean Diet month, you get a bunch of amazing feedback engagement from your audience. That's awesome. And so you seed this. So it requires a bit of intentionality for your own content strategy, knowing that, yes, it's going to serve my audience, of course, but it's also going to double as fodder when I pitch this brand because it's relevant to something that they care about as well. So that's O P is proof. So this is you saying, hey, happy to share some insights of how I've helped Sony, you know, achieve results X, Y, Z in this other campaign. And then the E easy to execute. This is really important. It's, you're telling them exactly what you're going to do for them. You say, hey, for this Canon Explorer of Light thing, we could do three integrated YouTube videos. We can do two dedicated email blasts trying to recruit people to apply for your, you know, this new program. We can turn this around within 10 days. Are you free on Thursday at 10am to talk about this? So you're, you're telling them exactly what you would do.

[Justin Moore]

It's so much, such a good template, like, and so much more detailed than like, hey, do y'all work with creators? Yeah, and I know too, man. It's like I put the people reach out to us. I think media, like, even maybe they want to, hey, I would love to work for you for free, you know, for a while or like learn something. Not realizing that like number one, I don't Want to sound entitled here, but like that's actually more of a burden than it would be a blessing because I don't know what you would do. I have to think about that. I have to take the energy to, to. To onboard you as a. The. The reverse could be, hey, I will edit vertical videos for you for free. All I need is like a Dropbox of raw footage. Or if you're cool, if I do it on the YouTube channel, would you consider reviewing them? And even better, here they are. And then it's like maybe like sweet. That would, you know, it's like doing the heavy lift. And so the fact that relevant to a campaign, you look that up from their Instagram or social media or website, you look it up a previous year. The audience has an affinity. To me, that's sequencing. You said it takes more preparation, but this just shows you, man. How bad do you want it? Think media podcast. Are you willing if it's like, okay, I would love to work with barbecue brands and I'm. I could do electric gills, grills, gas grills, pellet stoves, like grills. So I already have a grill and I don't have a video yet. So I'm gonna make one.

[April Moore]

Do it.

[Justin Moore]

Awesome. Even link to it as an affiliate to any brand. The brand that you have, which could then show proof. And maybe you don't need that much proof. Like Amazon will show you if you make a great YouTube video, rank it, get some views on it, get it popping in the algorithm, generate 5, 10, 15, 20 sales over 30 to 60 days. Screenshot your Amazon. One of the reasons we actually got a brand deal that was from a super large brand was almost like, I don't know why they said yes. Mainly like they here's the key. They did not care about performance. We just showed them how many how results we'd already gotten in affiliates. And I mean, I don't know what they were thinking. Obviously performance still was part of it, but it was like they were like, oh, you've like already like, it was like so much like they owed us. They were like, you've already sold plenty of cameras for us. Like we will just do a deal with you. Like. And so. But that was because of doing affiliate marketing first. So I love this idea. It's kind of like having the proof is also kind of like having a portfolio, like organic content. Your. Your audience already loves the grill content or the skincare or whatever it is, but doing the heavy lifting on the easy to execute. Like this is a great video. So if I was to think about Canon. I went to their website and I'm thinking about like the cameras I already love, which may not be what they want to promote. That's what I've learned is that sometimes they're thinking entirely different than like what I want to promote. However, because I do know our audience. So like the E50 or the R10, there's a couple creator kits on those. And like the R10 is just 200 bucks off on their website and it's all in one box for creators with the microphone and whatever else. And it's also got 42 reviews I'm just looking at, you know, so I'm like that man, that's a good fit for Think Media. Now they may or say or something else, but it would still show we've done the Heavy Lift. Like this is the exact video that would be inspired. We think it do like this video over here. And it also might tie into this summer campaign you did last year because people are thinking about traveling, vlogging during the summer, whatever else. Cool. And so you just done the Heavy Lift. Plus we could email, plus we could post on social. And then would you also put price and would you say, or would you say meet? Like, if you want to discuss this, let's meet.

[April Moore]

Absolutely. You got it. You got to get them on a phone call because again, what, what you propose is likely and all in all likelihood not going to be what they want to move forward with. They're not going to be like, okay, where do I sign? It's going to be more like a conversation like, hey, I loved these pieces of the, of the idea, but we want this a little bit differently over here. And so it has to turn into a conversation because you can't price yourself in a vacuum. You have to know again, what their goals are, what are their objectives are that this is part of probably a whole other conversation about pric. But, but real quickly, I wanted to book in this topic around the pitch and, and help help everyone listening and watching understand that it's not just this. This doesn't just work for social media. This doesn't just work for, you know, collaborating on, you know, YouTube and Instagram and podcasts and stuff like that. This is a universal pitching framework that works regardless of where your influence is. Heck, I am, you know, launching my very first in person event in March in San Antonio and I am currently pitching brands to sponsor the event. Right. So, you know, events are like, you're getting sponsors to events is like a big way in which conference organizers and Event organizers are able to make those things profitable or at least not lose a bunch of money. And so you have to apply the same principle to your pitches. When it comes to events. A lot of people think like, oh, here's the gold, you know, silver, you know, platinum package for, you know, pick one to sponsor our event. No, it's all about how do you convince the sponsor that you're going to help them accomplish their business objectives by showing up and sponsoring your event. So you lead with, hey, hey. I, I. It seems like this thing is really important to you in Q1 or Q2. Here's how we can integrate that into the event so that you can move the needle on that like KPI or that key performance indicator that you have for a company. So this is a universal piece of advice regardless of like, where you've built your influence, man.

[Justin Moore]

It's powerful advice. Now I do want to touch on, I think, another framework that we could go a little deeper on this, the DO rule in a second. You've already shared the arc framework and the rope method with us. And then a few other questions towards the end of the episode, but I want to ask. You've helped smaller creators outperform big accounts. What do you think? What is like the key strategy for commanding higher rates with a small audience?

[April Moore]

Dude, just be nice, be polite, be professional, turn stuff in on time, bro. You know how many times when I, when I ran the agency, you know how many times we hired a creator that is twice as expensive and, and, and smaller because we'd worked with them in the past and we knew that they were professional and good and not a diva or devo and anytime we came back to them with a small little, you know, edit request. Oh yeah, no problem. I got you. You know how many times we hired those people over the bigger footprint creator? A huge amount of times. Huge amount of times. And so again, I know that this feels like maybe trite advice, but it's true. This is, this is real. There's human beings on the other end of these brands. I think sometimes we look at them as these amorphous entities. Oh, it's a brand. They're, they're, and you know, you know, they're so professional and all this, but it's like it's a person and they want to enjoy their day to day life and so they want to work with also people. And so if you can treat them like humans. That goes so far, dude. It really does.

[Justin Moore]

Yeah. That's so powerful. And man, this whole professional, I think that it's, it's tough in the creator economy, but I think about this in any business. I got a friend running a roofing company and he, I mean it's an eight figure roofing company, scaled it up over the years and he came from the background of almost being like broke, on drugs, struggling family issues and now like has built up and I think his commitment in life has been like, it's kind of been like excellence. It's like turning pro. And he's like his approach towards, then his health, his approach towards his business, he's starting to create content now. But one of the things he told me was he was like our sales reps and stuff, we show up with the polo on and the logo, the iPad and a presentation that runs them through what they're going to get, text message, follow up and phone calls when the consultant or the person who's going to coach them on the roof is on the way. Hey, scheduling your call for tomorrow. Awesome. We're 15 minutes out. Hey, like, and he's leveraging technology to do it. So he's also, and he's like, no other roofing companies and, and, and competitor roofing companies are they maybe doing 1, 2, 3 million a year top line revenue. But they're struggling. They're, they're kind of like they're sort of stuck. And one of the reasons they're stuck is, is just because of a lack of strong brand, strong professionalism. Because it's kind of mom pa. I'd encourage listeners. It's kind of a different mindset. Like, why can't you be thinking big in small places? Don't let your small YouTube channel make you small minded. What would it look like to turn your professionalism up? Your brand, your dress, how you're showing up on calls, how you're showing up. And maybe it is, it's your logo, your professionalism. Listen, we're all about punch, fear in the face, press record. Start with what you have, get 1%.

[Sean Cannell]

Better with every upload.

[Justin Moore]

But the pursuit of mastery and the pursuit of excellence is a lifelong pursuit. And you just say then it's kindness, professional. It makes me think customer service. I got a friend in Las Vegas, Rachel Sneed, who runs wedding chapels. And she carries that spirit of excellence. It's like this biblical spirit of Daniel in the book of Daniel. It was like he had an excellent spirit. And it was like an excellent. And it was customer service, how people are treated. And you know what's crazy? And I think you'd agree with this. Justin 99% just won't ever do this. So it's really not that hard to stand out and be extraordinary because ordinary is so common. Meaning, like if I'm retail shopping, chances are I walk in and this girl's got, she's like smacking her gum and like twisting it in her bon quique nails. Looking at her phone like you need anything. Even if she acknowledges me, you know, this is not even a real situation. Although macro, I'm like, I try to make the story funny, but I mean it's true. Like I'm just like, but go in, the customer service person doesn't even acknowledge you or they give you a half hearted thank you or you know, welcome or you go into a restaurant, it's not clean, you go in, service is bad and you kind of tolerate it. You're just like, that's kind of just what it is. You're like, I'm probably not going to be acknowledged, appreciated, thanked, walk around the counter, shake my hand, you know, as you leave. That's rare, you know. So anyways, it to me it's kind of like, can you go a little bit deeper on that? Being nice, being professional, it goes a long way because also people are on the other side of these brands.

[April Moore]

100 man. And like you said, the bar is super low. And you know what? I do not anyone listening or watching. I don't fault you for this. You want to know why? Because a lot of us, especially if you have been privileged to, you know, start deriving an income from this, maybe you've never had a quote unquote real job. Maybe you came out of school and you were fortunate enough to, you know, start making money from your, from your, you know, social media stuff. You never understood what it was like in a corporate environment and what's expected and those kind of things that you might learn at a normal 9 to 5, you're kind of of learning this on the fly. So I totally commiserate with you and understand. But that's why it's so important to educate yourself around what it actually takes to be professional. And I actually think this is a blessing. I think, I hope this is an exciting prospect for people because it means that, you know, it's not just about the numbers, it's not just about the views, it's not just about the subscribers. It's also about your level of customer service when you collaborate with these brands and it goes a long way.

[Justin Moore]

I love this. Well, before we go into a few more strategic questions, it's some of the best Stuff actually, I think that we're about to hit. I do. You've got a new book sponsor, Magnet. It also is on pre order or maybe it's out by the time you see this episode. And if you go to the website and we'll make sure that's in the, the show notes, people can get some other cool stuff like 15 negotiation scripts, which is priceless. And you've got a bunch of other cool things. Give us just a quick overview of the book before we get to a few final questions.

[April Moore]

Yeah, man. So, you know, I briefly mentioned this, but you know, my wife and I have been creators for over 15 years. Started our first YouTube channel in 2009. So we've done hundreds and hundreds of deals ourselves. But also I ran this agency for many years and that I think has afforded me a pretty unique perspective to kind of behind the scenes of what's actually happening at these brands and what they're saying behind closed doors about creators and why they're passing on you and hiring other people instead. And so I've really kind of distilled the last basically 15 years of experience into this book and I just, I don't, I think it's the first book of its kind. I don't, I think that some it's. There's been a hunger for this type of knowledge and I'm very, very excited about finally getting it out into the universe because I really do feel it's going to impact a lot of people's lives and businesses quite profoundly. And so, yeah, it's everything that I know. I basically talk about my 8 Steps sponsorship wheel methodology, which is basically walking you through the pitch, the negotiation, contracts, the concept, the feedback, the or the production, the feedback, the publication and the analysis. So those are the eight steps and how important it is to actually have a system to turn sponsorships into a predictable income. So I think it's going to be a pretty exciting thing for a lot of people.

[Justin Moore]

We don't rise to the level of our goals, we fall to the level of our systems. Systems are the secret. And it's one thing to do one, a one off deal and get lucky. It's a whole nother thing to turn this into a systematic business. And the creators who truly last, even get liftoff, let alone last, are going to lean into systems. That's a priceless investment. Books are one of the best investment you could ever get. I'm not trying to, I don't even have an affiliate link or anything. I just want to encourage people to pick up the book, if you use the link in the description, it's best on your website. Right. It's going to be on Amazon eventually or it is, yep.

[April Moore]

It's going to be everywhere at launch. But yeah, sponsor magnet.com is the best place.

[Justin Moore]

Amazing. So yeah, you can check that out and in. And if you are a serious creator, it's a no brainer to invest in resources like this. Obviously one couple hundred dollar brand deal, a hundred dollar brand deal would pay for the investment. And no matter what size of channel you are thinking about the wisdom you could get there. Now there's one other framework. We did touch on it earlier speaking about like you should rights but it's the D U E rule. Briefly hit this.

[April Moore]

Yeah. So real quickly I call it the DO rule. It's deliverables, usage rights and exclusivity. So the deliverables one is easy, is like when you're negotiating with the brand and they say oh we'd love to collaborate a couple of posts. Like it'll be awesome. No, you need to know exactly what you need to do. Is it going to be an integrated video? Is it going to be a dedicated video? How many videos is it going to be? Do you have to do community posts? Are they going to be asking for that? You have to scope the deal properly so you know what level of work is actually going to be required of you. The usage rights we talked about. So that's the U in terms of understanding whether it's just organic usage rights, meaning that they can reshare it on their platforms or do they want to run paid advertising to it? Which is, which is you should be compensated for that. Right. And then this last one we actually didn't talk about much which was exclusivity is. Hey, are they saying that you cannot work with any of our competitors for a certain duration because this has a real, this is like a real meaningful like you know, dollars and cents impact to your wallet. If you don't consider this, I could share a quick story. A creator that I've coached agreed to five years of exclusivity for a free mattress.

[Justin Moore]

They weren't even paid.

[April Moore]

They didn't even get paid. They just got a free mattress and didn't realize that that was the deal that they had signed. And so like a year or two after that they were about to, you know, sign a deal with another, you know, Casper or whatever, another mattress company and realized looking at the contract.

[Justin Moore]

Yeah.

[April Moore]

And they were just like, oh my God. So this has like a material impact on your Life and your business. And so this stuff matters. Like, you really need to understand before you enter these into these agreements and ensure you're protected.

[Justin Moore]

Well, you know, it's funny too, because five years also could have been fine if it was like a million dollars, you know what I mean? Or, you know, or even six figures, depending on if this channel is small. You go, okay, you just calculate it out like, you know, but definitely like reading the fine print, even on a free product, which it must means they sign a contract for the free product. Read your contracts. Now, this is something I've been learning. Of course, AI is not legal advice, but AI is really changing the game when it comes to lawyers. And I hope this encourages people like, you know, one. We now consistently are hiring lawyers at Think Media at the size of company we are, whether that's on the employee side or contract side in brand deals, because it's worth reviewing, especially if the brand deals large. And most, you know, lawyers could cost 300 bucks an hour or 500 bucks an hour or a thousand dollars an hour. And if it takes them an hour to reveal your contract, you're listening to this. You're like that. I just not even. I'm not even in that ball game.

[Sean Cannell]

What's so crazy?

[Justin Moore]

I saw a big Twitter thread about this. This is the legal advice from AI is oftentimes superior than actually a conversation with an attorney. And one person joked and said, I want to offer to hire an attorney contingent on me first getting advice from AI putting it in a sealed envelope, listening to what they have to say. And if it's not superior to what's in the sealed envelope, then I get my money back or I don't pay them. And, you know, kind of a funny thought exercise. I don't know if the attorney would agree to that. But what's cool, like, you also just might be able to save time and. Or like. And it's as simple as pace contract in AI and say, what are the red flags? And that could. I just did one and it was. And so I decided not to hire attorney. I wasn't that stressed about the whole thing, but it gave me like, six things to consider. And also because I'm an impatient person, number one, if I read it, I'm going to start going dyslexic and start like, getting like, I don't even know and I don't care. But, man, if I've learned you need to know and care, you're saying it. You don't want to give five years of, you know, and so AI could just prompt you and say, do you really want to give five years of exclusive rights? You might be like, and then you can ask questions. What does that mean? What does exclusive mean? And so it's, you know, a new year. I think leaning into that as, as you start looking at any contracts, it's a take. We're just living in an era where the old Sean was probably just going to be taken advantage of. The new Sean, at least is actually running everything through AI. And, and then to that point, like, not to go crazy deep on this, but sometimes states and different places, like, it might say, like, well, this is. They're from Texas and the laws in Washington or. And that's kind of why, like, you could get such a broader perspective because we're dealing with a large language model that, that can be actually pretty updated now. Then again, of course, the disclaimer is it's not actually legal advice. And you. AI can hallucinate and it might not be accurate, but at least you, you could avoid some things. And creators are known to get it taken advantage of. Just kind of like musicians that get taken advantage of by record labels. Because we are creative, we. We want to just focus on the video and do the art and the reading and analyzing a contract is the most stressful. And like, and, and so unfortunately, whether intentional or not, brands take advantage of that, you know, or they just, they have their standard thing, that'd be another thing. And you can affirm or challenge anything I'm saying here. I think I had, I had a lot of fear about pushing back and. But I've realized even with some of our growth video speakers, some of our, whatever, the initial contract that'll come from a brand, that'll come from a person, that'll come from a business, this, a lot of times it doesn't even mean they're malicious. It's just going to be written so.

[Sean Cannell]

Heavily in their favor.

[Justin Moore]

They just, I might as well get all of this stuff. So they just throw it in there. And so then we review it and it's like, this is kind of crazy like this. And then we push back. And they're like, yeah, no, yeah, no problem. We'll redline that out. Yeah, we'll fix it. No big deal.

[April Moore]

Yeah.

[Justin Moore]

And so it's just like. Because it doesn't even mean that they would do everything that they said in there. It's just their standard contract, which is probably crazily weighted towards them. And so slow down, take a beat, take a breath, and realize that small creators now kind of have a new advantage that didn't once exist. Doesn't you don't need a big budget to start being a lot smarter when it comes to some of these professional areas of brand deals.

[April Moore]

100 Dude, I mean, I totally agree. If possible, always should try to, you know, hire legal, you know, professional to review your contracts. But AI can do a great job at, like you said, pulling out just the plain English of like, hey, what should I care about? What are the red flags? In fact, you could take some of the red flags I talk about in the contract section of the book and just put it in there and say, hey, remember this, every time I send you a contract, measure it up against these, like 12 things that I need to care about as a creator and tell me if any. There's any red flags here.

[Justin Moore]

Yeah, that's genius. Well, this has been a powerful episode. I'm excited to have you back later this year as we always get an update as it pertains to brands and brand sponsorships. You already kind of shouted it out. But lastly, if people want to follow you, get your resources, the book. Where can they follow you?

[April Moore]

Yeah. Sponsormagnet.com that's the best place. I appreciate each and every one of you who helped spread the word about the book. Honestly, I feel as though I have a duty to kind of educate the next generation of creators. And I just, there's no way I'm going to be able to do it without word of mouth. And so I think I did the hard part, which was write a damn good book. And so now I'm. Now it's the fun part, which is telling the world about it.

[Justin Moore]

Well, that's amazing. And think media podcast like rate, review, share the podcast wherever you watch or listen. And my name is Sean Cannell. Your guide to building a profitable YouTube channel. And we'll catch you in a future episode.