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The Think Media Podcast
397: How to Interview People Like a Pro and Grow Your Podcast Faster!
01:03:21
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- [00:00]
Sean Cannell
Hey, before we jump into the show, I wanted to give you a heads up that my free YouTube strategy class is available right now on demand@thinkmasterclass.com on the class, I reveal the one YouTube strategy we use at Think Media to generate over 330,000 views every single day. So if you're new to YouTube, this will help you start right and avoid mistakes. And if you're a YouTube pro, this training will help you multiply your your growth. This class is 100% free and you can watch it now on demand@thinkmasterclass.com now let's jump into today's show. Podcasting is exploding right now. YouTube alone sees viewers watching over 400 million hours of podcasts monthly on TVs. And major platforms like Netflix are rushing into the podcast game. The opportunity is massive. Creators like Alex Cooper are landing $125 million deals and building business empires beyond their wildest dreams. But competition is fiercer than ever. So how do you stand out? Well, you need exceptional interviewing skills, the kind that turn casual conversations into unforgettable moments that grow your audience. And and today you'll learn from one of the true masters of the interview, Ken Coleman. Dave Ramsey calls him one of the best interviewers in the country. And we're going to be learning about how you can craft perfect questions that get guests to share stories they've never told before. The exact preparation methods that build instant rapport with guests from politicians to entrepreneurs, and why most podcast hosts completely miss the transformational moments that turn listeners into super fans. This confidence building framework is gonna help you whether you're just wanting to launch a new show, whether you want to architect an upcoming video podcast or podcast and become a better interviewer and conversationalist. Today with me is Ken Coleman. He is the host of Front Row Seat. He is a three times best selling author, frequent guests on Fox Business, and he also coaches thousands of people to get better, move up and lead. Well. Ken Coleman, welcome to the Think Media podcast.
- [02:30]
Ken Coleman
Great to be with you again, friend. Love what you're doing, Sean.
- [02:33]
Sean Cannell
So I'm excited to dive in. You know, you actually wrote a book years ago. It was one of the first books I ever bought from you called the One Question.
- [02:40]
Ken Coleman
Yeah.
- [02:41]
Sean Cannell
And you are an expert. You've interviewed all kinds of athletes and now politicians and entrepreneurs and business people. Now you talk about how a single question can reveal profound insights. Can you talk about how you learned that and what you've learned about the power of crafting the right question for the right guest?
- [03:03]
Ken Coleman
I love this question because it I, when I wrote that book many years ago, I was launching into a career built around doing interviews. I was associated with a very large leadership conference called Catalyst, connected to John Maxwell, the leadership guru. And so I had gotten the opportunity to when I launched the Catalyst podcast. And then I would do these long form interviews on stage in front of 12,000 leaders. You know, I had to figure out how to craft a conversation that was going to bring as much value as a keynote. At least that was the goal. So that's where that started for me. When I got into the interview craft, I was trying to figure out how do I interview Tony Dungy, the Super bowl winning coach of the Colts, who's not necessarily a gifted communicator at all and more comfortable in an interview, but how do I turn that interview into something that has as much takeaway as a keynote? And that was a lofty goal. I'm not sure we ever got there, but we sure did try. And as a result I developed the process and self trained on how to do a good interview. But if I go back further to answer your question, specifically that notion that a question could change your life, I discovered that early on, hanging out with my dad, who was a pastor at pastors conferences and being in the room with great preachers and leaders. And because I was a middle schooler or a teenager at the time, and he'd always introduced me, these people would be very kind, like, oh, here's the young kid. And I just instinctively one day in one of those backroom meetings led with a question because I was curious. And I remember early on realizing how impactful it was. It was impactful in a couple ways. Number one, it was a small talk opportunity where that person must have said to me, how you doing young man? Or good to see you. And I just took the moment to ask a question that I was interested in. And so it was impactful in a couple ways. And there's some real learnings here based on your setup. Number one, it caught them off guard in a good way. They weren't expecting a middle school or teenager to ask a question. They were probably expecting small talk, right? Just kind of a return. Hopefully the kid can look you in the eye. Hopefully the kid can shake your hand and doesn't act awkward. Of course I'm old. So back in my day we knew how to have a conversation with an adult because we never had a device. So it just kind of caught him off guard in a good way. Second thing it did is it made a deeper connection between me and that person because they were kind of like, well, this kid came to play and asked me a question that I actually need to answer. And now I'm engaged. And so the connection was deeper than just a quick, how you doing? Hello. And the third thing it did is I actually learned something, and it proved to me that one question literally can change your life. It can open up a door of opportunity that maybe before that moment didn't exist, or you've been looking for it, or it, in this example, provides some insight that gives you a distinct advantage because you just learned knowledge and wisdom, and usually it's a combination. So early on, Sean, before I ever thought about getting into being an interviewer and broadcasting, because I went the traditional route of radio, I figured out that being curious is an advantage and taking curiosity, which we all have, and begin to hone it by asking questions. Because curiosity, unused, I, I believe, can disappear. We know from data. In fact, that very first book you mentioned, one question I cited, Data, a study from the University of Michigan that said that by the time we reach the eighth grade, most Americans are only asking two to three questions a day. Now you're a dad of little ones. I've got three teens. But any parent listening to us right now, watching this, that's a striking piece of data, because kids are hardwired to ask questions. Toddlers ask hundreds, if not thousands of questions a day, and then by the time the eighth grade comes around, they're only asking two to three. Why? Because curiosity has been beat out of them by our school system. Because they're test takers, not question askers. That's a separate pulpit. I'm not going to jump on that one today. But it illustrates the point that if we don't use curiosity, it does contract. But on the other hand, if we take that natural curiosity that we all have, we come into this world, nobody teaches a little kid to ask questions. They just ask, why, Daddy? You answer that, why, Daddy? Are they trying to be obnoxious? No. They have an innate curiosity to get to the bottom of things. So if we use that curiosity and we ask good questions, then eventually we'll ask better questions. And when we ask better questions, we eventually ask great questions. And when you ask great questions, you get great results.
- [08:20]
Sean Cannell
I'm so excited to hear about your interview process that you eventually developed. But if we go a little bit deeper on questions, you know, we're living in an era where a lot of people want to start a video podcast. There's a big opportunity for it. It really is an incredible opportunity, even the way we're engaging right now. You're in Nashville, I'm in the Pacific Northwest. Through technology, we're able to create a show, turn this into a video podcast distributed in audio. You can connect with anybody in the world right now. And as a result, a lot of people are starting shows and a lot of guests are. Maybe they've already been on things. I mean, even some bigger guests, you start realizing, like, when someone goes on their podcast tour, they go on five shows, 10 shows, 15. And so one of the most important things in content creation is figuring out how to be different, figuring out how to stand out. So if you were to give us any tips, in an age where we might just plug in the person's name to AI and be like, hey, can you give me some questions to ask this person? There's going to be a lot of people who are echoing the same information. How do you go about trying to come up with questions that are original, unique, different that. That really help people connect with your content over the years that listeners could think about for trying to really carve unique conversations with guests they invite on their shows?
- [09:41]
Ken Coleman
Yeah, it's really good. Three things that I'm doing. First thing is I ask myself, what does the audience want to know? So if you have a target audience for a show you want to launch or you have an existing show and you have stated ahead of time, this is my audience. So that's your demographic, you know, and so never lose sight of your audience when you craft an interview. And so the way I do it is it's a three part question. First question is, what does my audience want to know? So let's just take front row seat with Ken Coleman. What does my audience want to know? They want to know how to get better, better so they can move up professionally. And if. If they keep moving up, they're going to be in a leadership role. They want to know how to lead effectively. So my audience wants to win professionally, right? That's what they want. Because all the trappings that come with that. So I know my audience. So what does the audience want to know is the first question. Well, they want to know how to win. Okay, now that's very broad. So that's why the second question comes in. What does the audience need to know? All right, so the way I lay it out is the audience needs to know how to get better, move up and lead well, so front row seat. If you look at my team in the in meetings, we have these three buckets and it's in the tagline of the show, get better, move up, lead. Well, those are the buckets of content. Because I've determined, you know, based on research and knowing the audience, that's what they need to know. Okay? They need to know how to get better. So that is physical, spiritual, relational, financial. Okay, Emotional. So the. Just take those. So that's just. If I look at what is get better bucket, that means get better as a person. Because I know if they get better personally, Sean, they're going to bring that person to work with them. And as a result, it'll help them to move up professionally. So let's look at the move up. What do they need to do to move up professionally? Hard skills and soft skills. Pretty simple. Again, lots of content underneath those headings. But you've created a menu. And then the third bucket is lead. Well, so this is leadership 101. Communication, delegation, you know, just as two little simple examples. But I know what leadership 101 looks like. Right? So that's what the audience needs to know. Now you start thinking about guests and you go, okay, so let's take the physical, the subcategory under get better. So physical, that's a nutritionist, that's a workout expert, that's a sleep expert. Okay? And you start going, okay, these are things that can help them physically. Someone who's a stress expert, you know, whatever. So you start going, okay, what do they need to know? They need to know how to be better physically so they have more energy to take to work. So you start going, sleep, exercise, nutrition, you get that. So then you go, okay, so if that's what they need to know, then who's the best guest to come in and provide that information for them? So I'm always looking at a guest that has the right expertise or experience, and ideally both. And I want someone who is an expert, but also someone who has an experience to go along with it. I don't want to just have a bunch of professors all the time. I want some people who have lived it and they lost 400 pounds and now they have 6% body fat. Now that's an expert, but also someone with an experience. So the three questions are, and I tried to illustrate them real quick, it's what does the audience want to know? That means you got to know your audience. So what does the audience want to know? What do they need to know? Because there's a difference between want and need. I want to know how to lead better. Okay, great. Well, what do you need to know, to be a better leader. There's your answer there. And then what can your guest bring to that need? How can the guest meet the need? Through their expertise and their experience. Now, those three questions, those have to be answered before you even write your first question. But once I know the answers, those questions, Sean, now I know how to construct the interview, because the interview is got to tee up or lead the guest to be able to deliver what the audience needs. And back to that example I gave earlier. You know, if you're doing a big time interview, it needs to have the same value or you need to try to have the same value coming out of that as you would a keynote. And that is going to be directly related to the quality of your questions. So before I ever construct the interview, I answer those three questions, then I move into, okay, how do I want the interview to end? And then that tells me how I want the interview to start. And that allows me to create this narrative.
- [14:43]
Sean Cannell
How do you usually want the interview to end? So you're thinking about emotion.
- [14:47]
Ken Coleman
Depends on the. Depends on the. Yeah, it depends on the person and the topic. And when I say topic, I'm saying loosely. We got it, kind of got a general theme here, but we're going to cover so much. So every interview needs to end in its own unique way. Sometimes you can plan the ending with the last question and sometimes you can't. But when I write an interview, I'd least like to know where do I want this to end up? Like what's, what's kind of that last thing. And then that allows me to go, okay, then where do I need to start to try to create some rapport? Rapport is huge. I don't think there's any throwaway questions, but I do think there are some questions that are lighter than others to establish connection. In other words, I'll take you to an example. The first time I, the only time I interviewed Condoleezza Rice. So for those who don't know who Condoleezza Rice is, you can look her up. But she was the National Security Advisor and then became Secretary of State for President George W. Bush. So this is a serious lady. Before that, she was the provost at Stanford. And then prior to our conversation, she became the second woman and the first minority female to be a member at Augusta national, the legendary golf, you know, super, super private club. So this is a woman with tremendous gravitas and she's accomplished a lot. And she's also been interviewed 5,000 times. So I got a lot going against me Here, and I'm interviewing her in front of 5,000 leaders. So that's its own pressure cooker, because leaders are critics, and they're sitting there going, feed me. You know, Ken, I came here to see Condoleezza Rice, and I got to deal with you up there. This better be good. I mean, you know, that's the idea. They're not really thinking that, but some probably work. Here's my point. First thing I said to her, before we even sat down, we walked out. The crowd's clapping for her, and she's standing up. We're about ready to sit down in these comfortable chairs. She's just given a keynote, so they've heard from her, but it's been a canned keynote, and I'm got ready to take this thing a totally different direction. And she's just. She's never met me before. So before she sits down, I say, the crowd, I said, before we get started, Secretary Rice, I said, you look lovely today. She's like, thank you, Ken. I said, I think everybody, certainly golfers in the room, are wondering, how hard is it to pick an outfit out that goes with that green jacket? And most people reacted to what you just did. The golfers laughed out loud. It was an audible chuckle. They appreciated it. She laughed. She said something, you know, whatever, whatever. But it immediately created a connection between the two of us. It was. It was not a throwaway question. It was a connection question. She answered. Then we sat down. And I'm telling you, I could see it on her face. She was like, this guy came prepared. This guy's not a. This guy's not joking around. He's not. He's not just from the seat of his pants, he's not nervous. Like, there was a lot she could take away from that interaction. And so those first couple questions need to try to establish connection and chemistry. And the way to do that many times is to do something like I just did there, which is very personal, very customized. They know you've done your homework on them, and that just loosens them up a little bit.
- [18:11]
Sean Cannell
Well, Ken, I just want to say you look great today.
- [18:15]
Ken Coleman
Thank you. I wish I had a green jacket.
- [18:18]
Sean Cannell
And these insights, though, are so powerful. Like, lighter questions, not throwaway questions to build rapport. Yeah, the compliment kind of creating laughter, connection, and then preparedness. I mean, a lot of this comes back. I'm sure listeners are already like, whoa. The level of thinking. You just broke down the whole strategy for your show, too. You're like, there's a lot of things we need to know before we even get to those first questions, if we actually use some of your recent guests on your show. Front row seat. How do you prepare differently when interviewing someone like Nikki Haley versus an entrepreneur like Dan Martell? Hey, we're about to get back into the podcast in just a second, but I have a question for you. Do you want to grow your personal brand this year? Do you need more leads and sales in your business? If the answer is yes, then right now is the best time to go all in on YouTube. Today's podcast is brought to you by thinkmasterclass.com where you can get on demand access to a one hour deep dive training revealing how to start and grow a profitable YouTube channel. This year, for a limited time, you can get access to this on demand class entirely for free, where you will learn the three biggest mistakes that people make when starting a YouTube channel. The new rules and changes that have been happening on YouTube and how you can use them to create an unfair advantage. And the exact strategy we use at Think Media to generate over 350,000 organic views every single day. The data is clear. 70% of viewers claim that YouTube makes them more aware of new brands. So don't wait any longer to start growing your brand and business with YouTube. Just go to thinkmasterclass.com to get access to this. No fluff, highly tactical, free on demand training. That's thinkmasterclass.com how do you prepare differently when interviewing someone like Nikki Haley versus an entrepreneur like Dan Martel?
- [20:13]
Ken Coleman
Yeah, I love this question. So Nikki's body of work is in a completely different lane than Dan Martell. Right. So Dan's stuff, he's putting out everything he thinks on, on Instagram and YouTube. So, you know, you don't have to wonder what Dan thinks and why he thinks it. That guy is, he's in that lane. And, you know, you also know his type. He's very wealthy, he's an entrepreneur. He doesn't even need to be doing any of this. Why is he doing it? You know, there's a lot that you, you already know about Dan because everything's out there. Nikki, the only thing you know is what's been curated by her own team. She's a politician, so every speech she's ever given has been written by somebody else. Edited three or four times. You know, when you see her in an interview, it's not long form in podcasts, it's on Meet the Press and she's very guarded with what she says because they have to be because it's not a Friendly interview. And so you automatically know you just have two different worlds that these people are from and more importantly, two different ways that they operate. Like, you just know whatever I throw at Dan, like, I can talk to him about being arrested because he's told the whole world about getting arrested at 14 and being on drugs. So, like, Dan's not worried about anything I throw at him. Nikki, if I'm going to ask her a personal question, she's going to be guarded just by the very nature of the context. So you prepare differently that way. With Nikki, I had to go back and do a lot of personal research on her to try to make that personal connection. The open of that interview was talking to her about dealing with racism in America, you know, in the 70s, because she was the only Indian American kid in her classroom. They didn't know if she was white, black, Latino. Like, these are her words. She. So, you know, and the only Indian family in the entire, you know, rural community that she grew up in South Carolina. So, you know, you establish rapport with her by going into something that she rarely gets to talk about because she's seen as a. Obviously as a woman of power and influence. So that's the difference. And so you're going to get leadership content from her, and it's pretty much just leadership and personal. With Dan, you can get some entrepreneurship, you can get some personal stuff. It's just a wider range of content that you can get from him. From her. You're going to have to stay in her lane because she's been in a power position in politics for most of her career. And so that's what you're drawing from. So now you got to go, what can I pull from her political context and experience that translates to a middle manager or a young lady who wants to be in leadership, but she doesn't want to run for office. She just wants to run her company. So that's the difference in how you. You're mining for content, but you have to understand the unique context of it and keep it in her context. Because if you go outside of her context, it would feel like a disjointed conversation.
- [23:19]
Sean Cannell
Can you speak to, like, taking it all the way back to where you started, where you know, you've developed confidence, you've put in the reps, you've developed experience. Your career has led you to different places where you've created influence. Your channel's got over a hundred thousand subscribers, plus it's distributed on audio. So, I mean, you're having Nikki Haley and Dan Martell on the show and someone that's just starting is like, I have an aspiration to do this, but that first interview and the question would be getting comfortable. How do you get comfortable and develop confidence to get into conversations with people of such high caliber? But also what is the importance of. If you go back to your beginning to developing the reps, maybe have you, you know, maybe early mistakes, failures you made, and for that, that individual that someday hopes to have a. A one podcast and realizing this could be a very legacy move. I mean, not just that it's something you can make a living from, but just something that enriches your life. The connections you make, the relationships you make. This doesn't happen overnight. So what's been your journey of building your confidence? Maybe making mistakes? Can you remember a mistake of being with somebody of, of, you know, higher influence and being like, man, I messed up there. And just the nature of putting in the reps and failing forward, if you will.
- [24:41]
Ken Coleman
Relentless preparation leads to reflexive performance. I'm going to say it again. Relentless preparation leads to reflexive performance. Let me just unpack it briefly. I am answering your question when I am putting so much time into the preparation of the interview and the questions. So the research and then the writing of the questions and I get to that moment, no matter how nervous I am. Our brain is a supercomputer. And I read something Sean once that said, even under the greatest of anxiety, our brain can still recall about 70% of what we put in it. And so you don't even have to. If you've got an iPad or your questions written out in front of you, you don't even have to worry about recall. And, and so, so what I did early on, the first interview I ever did was with Coach K, the legendary hall of Famer for Duke. And I was the fill in, but I was so prepared. And this was back in the day before we had iPads, they didn't even exist. And I'm sitting there with this legend and I'm so nervous, Sean. I could barely swallow because I looked up to him. I was a big Duke fan. And I won't tell the long story because nobody cares, but here I am doing this for a John Maxwell simulcast and I'm the backup because the TV guy that's supposed to do it couldn't do it. And I was helping him write the interview with the opportunity to go see Coach K. And all of a sudden I'm thrust into this deal and. But I had, I had prepared so much. I had all My questions written out on three by five index cards. And I was prepared, Sean. So no matter how nervous I was, I could gather myself, look at my question on the card, and then spit it out. And what happened was about two questions in. I started ad libbing, and I've told this story a thousand times on podcast. I wrote about it in the book, One question in that introduction. You probably remember me telling the story. But it got to a point where I felt like I was sitting in the hot tub with Coach K. I was so relaxed because I could see that he was enjoying it and my questions were emitting really good responses and all the preparation was taking over. So back to the statement of the relentless. Just, just never stop preparing and get so prepared that in the moment, like Tom Brady or John Elway or your favorite quarterback who performs under pressure in the two minute drill with no timeouts. That's because for weeks on end they've been watching film and then they practice the two minute drill. So they know the plays, they know what they're supposed to do, they know when to call a timeout, they know when to spike the ball. This is the relentless preparation, and it leads to reflexive performance where it looks like Tom Brady's pulse isn't even moving and he's got a Super bowl on the line. So in those early days at Catalyst, I was thrown into the boiler and they trusted me and I. The stakes were high, so I had to prepare because I was so nervous. And I found that the more I prepared, the less nervous I got prior to the interview. Now when the moment came and I'm up on stage, you know, in the early days, I was still nervous, but that was just that natural performative thing. The fact of the matter is I had that whole interview on an iPad. Then by that point we'd advanced on iPad, and it was right there. And here's those beautiful. Because I had prepared and I knew where I was going, and I had the interview in front of me, too. And it was so well thought out. I mean, you know, it was boom, first question, second question. You know, I'd write a little parentheses, maybe a follow up here. You know, to this day, I still do that. I'll write follow up, question mark. So that in the moment I'm. There are moments where I visualize the interview and I'm going, there might be a nice little rabbit trail here. But here's what was beautiful. I was so prepared, Sean, that I loosened up once the interview got started and my questions again began to prove to Me in the moment. These are good questions because they're getting good answers and the guest is locked in and they're, they're engaged and they're giving good stuff so that I could then ad lib. Because if I go to lunch with you, I'm not looking at questions on my phone. I'm going to ask Sean a question about his wife and kids. That's where we're going to start. And you're going to tell me a little bit about your wife and that might create a follow up question. Oh, really? How long has she been doing that? And he told me about the kids. There are going to be natural follow up questions when you have lunch with somebody and what makes that beautiful is because you're engaged with them, you're confident about where you want to go, what you want to ask them. And then your answer sparks another question. Well, when you're prepared and your interview's laid out in front of you, there are some thoughts that you can go in the moment. No, I don't think that's a good follow up. That's just me personally. I'd like to. If it was just me and Coach Dungey and we're having pizza, I'm going to go. Tell me about that guy. Was he a real jerk? Yeah, I'm not going to do that because my mind goes, wait a second, what does the audience want? What do they need? They don't need to know that that's Ken Coleman wanting to know about that linebacker. Nobody else in here wants to know about the linebacker. And so you can also delete a thought but have the presence of mind to do that. But then when another thought comes up and goes, oh, I need to ask him. What did it feel like in those first few days when they fired him from Tampa and he had a winning record? Yeah. Now people won't know that because there are pastors out there that have been fired or people that have been passed over for a position. How do you handle that? That's a real sense of rejection. Coach, how did you process that? Now that people want to know. So relentless preparation leads to reflexive performance. I've not had a lot of boo boos, nothing major, nothing really embarrassing that I can recall. There have been a few times where I didn't do as good a research as I should have. In other words, I thought I saw something and I used it, but I didn't double check it. I've had a couple mistakes like that that embarrassed me. They weren't big deals because I owned It. But that's a thing where, as an interviewer, don't cite something with a guest that you read or saw that you didn't verify. And I've done that at least a handful of times. And it pisses me off every time I do it because it's like, I should have verified that.
- [31:05]
Sean Cannell
Yeah, that's good. I'm curious, how much time do you spend preparing for interviews? And maybe it's a range on your show. And I don't know if you can leak some upcoming guests, but maybe you give a case study of somebody you're preparing for in the real time. Now, how much time would you invest in maybe researching a guest?
- [31:20]
Ken Coleman
Yeah, you know, I'm really excited about Jefferson Fisher's coming out. Jefferson's exploded on the scene on Instagram. That's pretty much his primary platform. A guy, he's a trial. A trial lawyer in the personal injury space. Crazy enough, but he doesn't even seem like a personal injury lawyer what you'd think. But he's been in his car for years now, about three years, just doing videos on how to communicate better. And he's blown up on Instagram. Here's a guy that's done thousands of videos, most of them now everyone he puts out is over a million views. So he's cover a lot. So the research on that took a little bit longer. After we figured out what we thought, we wanted to ask the team, what do we think our audience wants to know from him? So I started thinking about the workplace. So I wanted to, you know, ask him about how do you communicate up to a boss? How do you challenge your boss without putting them on the defensive? And he was like, oh. So, I mean, I hit him with some stuff that I don't think he's been. He's done a video on before. So the research on that one, a little bit more detail, a little longer. But you're right, it does depend on the guest number one, and it depends on your comfort level. Back to what I just said a minute ago. Relentless preparation leads to reflexive performance. As I was telling you all that, I said I could tell that I was ready. As the nerves went away in the press prep, the more comfortable I got with what I think the interview was. Then I knew I'm ready. So a lot of this is feel if you're a visual person like I am now. Again, some of the people watching this, Sean, and listening to this, they're so new at this. They're like, well, I just like to be real and from the, from this. From the seat of my pants. Okay, but you better be really good at asking questions from the seat of your pants. I'm good at asking questions from the seat of my pants, but that's because I've been doing it a really long time and my pulse is so flat when I interview somebody. And I've been with a lot of celebrities, too. So the more you're with a celebrity, the more relaxed you become. In other words, now you're just like, I've done this before, and they're just a regular person. If I come and I do a good job, they're going to answer my question. So you get less and less kind of built up by, oh, this is a big name. So I hope that helps there. But it's. It's going to be case by case, your personal comfort level. And your guest is going to determine how much of that preparation from a research standpoint that you're doing. And then as far as writing the interview, again, that's going to come down to your work. Your work methods, I guess, is how I would say that.
- [33:52]
Sean Cannell
So when you have a chance to maybe watch somebody else, especially even your research process, maybe you watch a different interview or maybe you're sitting in the audience when somebody else is conducting an interview at a conference.
- [34:05]
Ken Coleman
Oh, this is the worst for me.
- [34:08]
Sean Cannell
I'm curious. The things you're observing, the biggest mistakes you see people making during interviews. I'm sure there's many. And we can learn a lot of juicy information from just maybe how it starts, what happens in the middle, how it ends.
- [34:25]
Ken Coleman
Asking the same question two or three times. I like to call it over asking. So they're sitting there and they're asking Sean a question. So I'll flip the tables. Okay, so the question I'm going to role play. So I'm interviewing Sean, and I'm going to ask Sean about specifically the environment on YouTube right now to launch a channel and what it. What it's like now to make a successful channel go. Okay, so that's what I'm going to ask. All right, sean. I mean, YouTube's been out now for a while, obviously, massive success. I read things. Maybe the biggest platform, biggest search engine in the world, I think I've seen. And it feels like we've reached a maturity. It's gone through a lot of different stages. If we look at the Environment Today on YouTube, I'm curious to know how easy is it to stand out and actually build something. Because, you know, you think about this, you know, you got a lot of people that are starting YouTube channels every day. And, you know, I think it's probably like an entrepreneur who starts something, you know, they quit too soon. And so I'm just curious, you know, what you think about today's environment, Because I think a lot of people actually would like to know. Sean. You know, is it 30 days? Is it 90 day? You see what I've done? I've asked the same question three different times. That kills me. Like, I should lead with Sean. Is there a rule of thumb right now on the amount of time someone should commit to just seeing if their channel idea is viable? Now, that's a good question. Get out of the way. Let Sean answer. Now, if I thought of something else while you're giving me the answer, then I follow that up. But I just tried to, because here's what was happening there. They weren't prepared in their question. Then their nerves took over. A little insecurity, maybe. Sean was looking at me, and he didn't smile. So I thought, oh, I should re. Ask it. So that's one I see a lot. The other one I see a lot is bad body language by the interviewer. They're just real stiff, and you can tell they're nervous. And to me, it's. If I'm at a live event, I have to think of the audience. When I'm the host and I'm doing the interview. You've been to live events and seen me do this at Summit. I'm looking at the audience. I mean, the person's talking to me. And I'm looking out here because I want to see how I hear something. The audience. I want to see how the audience. They said something funny or really great. I'll look at the audience. I want the audience to see me as them. And so I'm real physical leaning in, like, because you got to know that the audience is watching you on stage with this person. You're part of the deal. They're eavesdropping in on a conversation, not an avatar asking questions. That one drives me crazy when I see a stiff interviewer and they don't seem to be engaged physically with their face all the way down. And then the third thing that drives me crazy is, is when you can tell they didn't really listen to the answer, and they were just focused on their next question because there was gold right there. I mean, like. And I'm sitting there going, oh, my gosh. Follow up on that. You know, like, that's. For me personally, it's the Missed follow up is, to me, where all great interviews go to die. I mean, you could have a pretty good interview laid out and a good guest and you miss some follow ups and it just, you miss, you miss the magic Man. Some of my favorite questions I've ever asked, I didn't plan to ask, but that's because I'm so prepared that I'm able to actually listen. I'm not nervous about my next question. I already know what my next question is unless the guest gives me a better one. And that's the jam. Like, you know, if you're really tuned in, you can, you can feel the audience tell you. Stay where you're at, stay there. Don't move on.
- [38:24]
Sean Cannell
Do you try to come up with a rhythm of stories? How important are stories? As well as maybe tactics and shorter answers when you think about the narrative arc of a really great interview. And let's talk in a leadership context, because in some case it might be almost entirely stories. It's getting to know the person personally. But we're tactical on this podcast. Yours sounds like it's a blend because it's got, how do I practically level up, get promoted, become better? How do you think about the mix between. There's a, there's this famous phrase that it says facts tell, but stories sell that sometimes too. Stories are so powerful, but also practicals are powerful. What do you think about the rhythm and the blend you're trying to create?
- [39:09]
Ken Coleman
Yeah, it's a good question, but I will tell you, I don't have a formula. I'm not looking at the finished product going, oh, I think I'm a little story light. I need to ask him for one more story. I don't do that because again, I think the process that I shared with you earlier dictates whether or not it's a, give me, give me, give me a hard opinion on this versus a story. Now, what I will say to you is I think that. And by the way, that's a really good question for your audience. I hope they rewind catch what he just asked. Because I think what matters most is not the blend of story versus tactical, practical stuff. It's actually context to the person. So for instance, I mentioned Condoleezza Rice. I'll mention George W. Bush. I interviewed George W. Bush for the same conference. George W. Bush. You're not going to ask him a lot of practical, tactical things. You're just not. And the reason is twofold. That's not how he communicates, number one. And number two, he's a Former president. You got eight years of being the President of the United States, and then the rest of his life being raised by a president of the United States. He's going to default to story. So to the extent that you can take him with a very tactical question, but allows him to tell a story that will actually answer it, there's your win. So, for instance, I asked him, and I'm paraphrasing. I'd have to pull up the tape to give you the exact. But I asked him 9, 11. You gotta ask him about 9, 11. You have to. But he's been interviewed, and you've seen him be interviewed by 9, 11. So what, am I gonna bring Sean to the table? So the way I did it was this. I said, I can only imagine. No, I said, none of us can imagine the weight that you were feeling. We've heard you. We've heard this timeline. We've read the timeline. You've written about it. We've heard you talk about it. What I want to know is, and I think these leaders in this room need to know from you, is how did you mentally process all of these unknowns coming at you with the fact that you've got a lead and the American people are looking at you for strength and on some level, some certainty? And yet in that first 24 hours, it just had to be a ton of just uncertain things coming your way, and you've got to project strength. You know, something along those lines. Okay, so here's what's beautiful. Okay? He starts talking about some of the highlight stuff that we know, you know, and he's in the plane, they take him to. I think he said New Mexico. Or he's on the ground. He's like, get me back. Finally said, get me back to D.C. because he had listened to Secret Service all day long, and he finally said, I'm the fricking leader of the free world. Get me back to D.C. the American people need to see me in D.C. okay? So I think we'd all heard that before. So he takes us back to D.C. and takes us to the White House. He said when we finally got there, the first thing they did was, is they took me down to the bunker and said, this is where you guys are going to stay tonight. And if there's anything. And he said. He looked at me and he said, ken, I've never said. I've never told anybody this before. I mean, listen to me, folks. That's what you want. You want somebody like George W. Bush to go. I've never said this before, but the only reason I got him there, it wasn't some little magical trick. It's that I took him into a depth of that question and the setup of that depth to where he got there and he told the story. I got to tell you now, he goes, they took me to this little bedroom where Harry Truman had put up first time. It's just a little teeny, tiny bed. And he said, is that bed for me? And they said, yes, sir. And he goes, nope, I'm not sleeping in that bed. You all can wake me up and drag me down here seven times tonight, but I'm going up to my bed. And the crowd loved it. And it was this moment where he was like, I'm not going to. You know, I need sleep so that I can lead tomorrow. And that was a powerful story of a guy who just knew, I got to get some rest because what's about to happen tomorrow, there's no playbook for that. So I hope that helps. I mean, it's. With him, you're going to go more story with a Simon Sinek. You're going to go more philosophy and theory. And then he'll share a story on his own, if that makes any sense.
- [43:47]
Sean Cannell
Context of the person. I mean, it's brilliant. And. And if you get it wrong, like if you were pushing for tactics in the wrong room versus maybe you want to play to the individual strength, which is all going to come back to research and preparedness so you can deliver the best interview possible. Well, there's a few other things I want to ask you as we land the plane and in the context of front row seat, your new show, but speaking to the listener who's thinking about, okay, I know I want to do a video podcast. I know I want to get into this game. Maybe I'm currently doing one. I feel stuck. I also just feel like, man, how do I. The big question being, how do I find my difference? How do I craft a show? How do I also not just be an echo, but try to be a voice, listening maybe narratively through you, architecting this new vision for something that's been on your heart for a while. And maybe if you apply it to just some tips and takeaways for individuals to make their conversation stronger, but their overall strategy stronger and their vision stronger? Because competition is no joke, and there is a lot of competition. There is a lot of options. And if you want to carve out your audience and find your 1000 true fans, you know, what are some thoughts? What are you doing with front Row seat. And what could we learn from that?
- [45:08]
Ken Coleman
Yeah, so we're doing some things with format that make it different. Because, as you know, when I first got into this game in 2007, I mean, podcasting was brand new. We launched the Catalyst podcast. Nobody knew what a podcast was. In fact, we actually had ipods. So you got a bunch of your audience that are going, what's an ipod? Well, it was really cool. And it came with a U2 album too, when you bought it. So that was like a big deal back then. I'm dating myself. But here's. Here's what we've done when we started this new format. And this is an idea that I've had for a long time because I've always been. I love television. Television is my favorite format. So now we call it video. I mean, you know, young people don't even watch TV. They watch their phones, they watch YouTube. All right, so front row seat. What's different about it? Because we had to go, there's a million interview shows and really good ones. What are we going to do? And so we crafted a format differentiator, which doesn't really change the content that much, but it makes it unique enough that I think we're going to stand out. So here's what we've decided to do. We are going to shoot a lot of in person interviews where I'm with the person. We've got a beautiful studio here in Nashville and at our headquarters at Ramsey Solutions, we, the team built this out. They took my vision for it and they built it out. And it's. It's got a beautiful. It's just in a box, but it's this beautiful black background. Well, we got these awesome bar. Bar, like miniature. Not miniature, they're full size bars, but they're like standalone pieces of furniture. We got really cool lamps on them. You know, we've got whiskey and bourbon bottles and all kinds of things on there. And it has the feel of a. Of a pub. And we got two leather chairs that are. They're not gigantic. They look really cool. They're worn. Got one of my favorite side tables for my house. It's got a lot of character. We got two copper cups. Again, promoting warmth, but a feel that there's an air of depth to this. Like, this is nice leather. We got. There's some intentionality to the feel of the set. That's one little thing. The second unique thing is we're filming these in from a live audience now. Not a live audience that's sitting in a Bleacher or in chairs watching us, but an audience that surrounds us. So I don't know if you've seen the trailer or not, but it looks like I want it to feel, in other words, I want when people watch this to go, oh, he took the velvet rope and got rid of it and said, come on. And I want to invite people in. And then we're going to do a virtual format where if I was interviewing you right now, Sean, around us would be people just like we've seen on group zooms or whatever. Tony Robbins kind of made it popular. The difference is the audience gets a chance to ask a question at any time during the interview. The audience can raise their hand and we move the mic over to them and the camera over to them and they get to ask a question. So that's a format differentiator. Are people going to tune in to hear real people ask questions? Maybe down the road, but it is a format differentiator. And then eventually we're going to take it on the road and do it in pubs, you know, turn it into a mixer. Because I want the show itself to be not just a show for the masses out here, but I want to create a mixer mentality. So the math on this show, and some of you are old enough to know this math, the others you have to look it up, but it's inside the Actor Studio meets Masterclass meets MTV Unplugged. That's the feel. So we see you. Really, you resonated with that because you're old enough to know all three of those things. But when I say that to you, you get it immediately, correct?
- [48:55]
Sean Cannell
Yes, absolutely.
- [48:56]
Ken Coleman
I know you've seen it, so I'm telling it. So come up with a math. Come up with a show math. Like before you ever launch it, go. It's this meets this meets this. And what that will force you to do to the heart of your question is to create a really unique DNA around your show. Because there's a million shows out there. So the more unique it is to you and what you want to create, the better. And that's what we did. You know me, Sean, we've known each other a very, very long time. You know, I want to. This was cool. We had a 25 year old gal on our team, she was uploading the show into all the different the Spotify's and like that's her job on the team. She gets shows and she hadn't seen anything yet. And when she saw the show, she commented to her leader, this is like Ralph Lauren has an interview show and I was so thrilled to hear that because without her knowing anything, that was in our mood board. And that was something that, you know, I said, I want it to feel like it's got the weight of. You walked into a Ralph Lauren store. We thought about the design and the way it feels. But. And so anyway, that's, I think that's the formula.
- [50:05]
Sean Cannell
So I want to see if anything stands out to you additionally, and I'm going to recap some of this and try to contextualize it for our listeners.
- [50:12]
Ken Coleman
Okay.
- [50:13]
Sean Cannell
You don't need Think Potty Think podcast community. Even if you don't have resources, every single one of these points is an opportunity. One, the format itself. Like if, yes, there's other shows, but how could the format be a little bit different? What could be a new format? Also, what do you want it to feel like? So the feel of the show so powerful people connect with the emotions of a show. Then what about the set and design? And even if you're doing virtual, that's what this podcast is. As you're thinking about your background, you could be thinking about your dress, your aesthetic, you could be thinking about intro music. What is the set, the design of your show, which kind of ties into this idea of branding. How are you going to brand your show to be different? Then I would think about the vision. I love that Ken's breaking down, man. Eventually this could go on the road. Eventually this. Because things are going to be a progression. Don't let your small YouTube channel make you small minded. Don't let your small town make you small minded. Don't let your small business make you small minded. Just because you're starting maybe with a USB microphone, one light, a webcam and some virtual software, what could your show turn into, Ken? Starting with more resources but eventually being able to take this on the road. There's a movement that could gather around it. That pub feel is what you have designed, Ken, but that can expand. And so there's a future vision for the show and then show math. What a cool idea to think about. Oftentimes I think if we're trying to be original, we're overwhelmed because we're trying to like create something from absolutely nothing as opposed to really this kind of remix idea. If you just add three different things together, they're all unique in their own right. But you're combining those elements into your show now. You're going to carve out a unique DNA. And so if it's this plus this plus this, when I Think about maybe hot ones. And they just said, well, okay, there's a lot of interview shows, but we're going to sit down and eat hot wings while interviewing these individuals. And it turned into to be this smash hit. And I even think about Jubilee, which is getting incredible views by surrounding an individual with oftentimes polarizing opinions and having 25 atheists versus one Christian apologist or 25 Democrats versus. And. And they've created these millions of views. And it's because of dealing with a different format. And I love that you mentioned you're even going to tie this in virtual because we. One of our ethics at the Think Media Podcast is it's never about your resources. It's about your resourcefulness, starting today with what you have, and then realizing that someday maybe you could rent a studio space, get a studio audience, tap into new formats like Jubilee is doing, or front row seat is doing now. I just did a whole breakdown, Ken. Did anything else come to mind in terms of, you know, what you're doing, your strategy, maybe how you're picking guests that's gonna make your show a little bit different that we could learn from and add to that list?
- [53:11]
Ken Coleman
I think that there's two types of things that you. That we are looking at. We're looking at a list names. Of course, that's what everybody wants to get. But a list conversations are just as important to me. And I told the team that. I said, you know, we're going to have people on the show that nobody's ever heard of, but, man, trust me, they're going to be glad that they had heard of them from us. And we're going to introduce them to some voices that have a list content. There's a big difference between a list name and a list conversation. And so that's one thing that we're looking at. The second thing, by the way, you did a great breakdown, but the only other thing I would add to that is something I didn't say, and I should have said it. All of that stuff that you laid out is absolutely right. But at the end of the day, content is king, and content will always be king. And if you do a really good conversation and when we talked about how to do a good interview, but if you do a good job there, you're going to stick around. It's just that simple. Because so many people are doing conversations, but a lot of them are crap. And if you become really good. So I'm confident we're going to carve out our space. I know it's A crowded World. I was doing it early, and then I got away from the interview format for years. Glad I did. Went out and did a whole different thing coming back to it, because I love it. I think there's. There's a. We've got a vision for this, which you can see. But, you know, because I. I want the. What's unique about this for me is I want the audience to get the same privilege that I get. So it's not just a little format thing I'm trying to be cute with. I literally want to be the guy who opens up the opportunity to use a question the way that I've been blessed to use questions, and that's why the audience matters to me. That Inside the Actor Studio show was so brilliant because, you know, James Lipton, quirky professor, but he cuts a deal with Bravo and brings in these actors, and all of his film students are sitting in the audience theater style. And after he got done with the interview, these young film students got to ask questions. One of my favorite clips is a young Bradley Cooper standing up and asking a question, I believe, to Robin Williams. And years later, Bradley Cooper was a guest on that same stage there. I get goosebumps thinking about that. You know, the idea of leveling the playing field and allowing an audience to come in and have the same privilege, that I get to ask really accomplished people questions that matter. That matters to me. So, you know, don't do format for the sake of format. Do format with a purpose, and I think it'll win.
- [55:50]
Sean Cannell
It brings it full circle. And I have actually one final question, which I'm actually maybe more excited about than any other question in just a second. Plus, I want you to shout out your roll call of how we could follow all of your stuff. But that's full circle back to. It's all about the conversation and developing this skill set of becoming a confident interviewer. What's going to ultimately skyrocket your show's growth? I think about the proverb that says if you see someone who's skilled at what they do, they'll serve before kings, not common men.
- [56:18]
Ken Coleman
Ooh.
- [56:19]
Sean Cannell
And this idea that it's like if you develop this skill, and even with the roughest equipment and the, you know, most limited resources, if you develop the skill of really great interviewing, really great conversations, being obsessed with adding value to the audience and then just doing it a lot over time, then it's like cream always rises to the top. No matter how many cups of coffee you pour, this thing is going to rise, and you can have longevity in video podcasting and it's a good time to do it with yes, a lot of competition. But this stuff is just the beginning. Still, I mean, Spotify, Netflix, YouTube is taking podcasting so seriously. In their fourth quarter earnings call, they mentioned podcasting four times. They broke revenue records. They said a lot of people are watching podcasts on their smart TVs in their living rooms while they're cooking dinner. We just went through the quote unquote podcast election. It is now expected, I'm sure for future years that there will be long form conversations with in every situation that we will just expect that people, politicians, business leaders that we're going to want to see them in this environment. It's just a new format that's now accessible and so that for listeners there's a massive opportunity to get into the game, develop your skills. I have this final question, but before we get there, shout out your stuff. We'll link it up in the show notes. But where can people follow you, connect with you on the various platforms as well as follow the new show? Sure.
- [57:42]
Ken Coleman
Kencolman.com is is the place to connect with me on everything, obviously. But on YouTube just search front Row Seat with Ken Coleman. Instagram at Ken Coleman. Ken Coleman on all the. On the socials, but certainly YouTube for the show is front row seat. And on podcast, your favorite app, it's Front Row Seat with Ken Coleman. You can get it all those places.
- [58:04]
Sean Cannell
So I want to get your take on this question. It might sound funny the way I worded it first and give you a second to think about it, but what are in your mind the best banger books you've ever read? This actually came out of a conversation I had with Noah Kagan and we were. And I know you read Leadership, you read Communication. And my personal conviction is that readers are leaders. And so I'm always looking from somebody that's developed mastery like you. There's so many great books or there's tons of good books, so many we should read. But he said banger. He was like, this one's a banger, this one's a banger, this one. And it made me think like it's just kind of that list, like oh man, if I had to just. And he rattled off like seven as many as come to mind. You think about those pivotal books that are going to help me level up, go to that next level, help our listeners and maybe it ties into this conversation and maybe it just ties into those were pivotal life shifting moments. When I read that, it really Influenced me. What, what, what books come to mind, Ken?
- [59:10]
Ken Coleman
Yeah, I'll start as early as I can remember. Just like, just crazy good books that shaped me. Dig your well before you're thirsty by the envelope magnet Harvey McKay. He's written several best selling books, but that book my dad got for me as a senior and graduating senior in high school. Dig your well before you're thirsty. The art of developing deep relationships so that when you need a most you're not looking for them. You can call them at 3 in the morning. That was a profound, simple read. But, but, but, but a banger book for me. I would have to say a couple recently that I read. Nobody's heard of this book. It's called Barking up the Wrong Tree by a guy that's a little known research journalist. But it is all about success and winning in multiple areas and it does all this research and it says, well, we thought this about how to handle fear, but this is actually how you handle it. Phenomenal data in it. I think it's an absolute banger. Another one that most people don't know, but a fabulous book called Top Dog the science of, of winning and losing. Poe Bronson co wrote this pose famous for writing what should I do with my life. But this book is again he co authors it with I believe a physicist. But it is just, it's the science of winning and losing like in life. It's phenomenal. I love it. I love it. Another banger is, I think one of the best biographies I've ever read on Thomas Jefferson by Nashvillian and Pulitzer Prize winner John Meacham. It's called the Art of Power and for me it's a banger because it does a real deep dive analysis on one of our founding fathers. A much, you know, a controversial founding father certainly, but also very influential founding father. And it's largely from his letters that he wrote. So if you love reading about famous people who have flaws but nonetheless overcame a lot and did amazing things that span the test of time, that's a great one. And then I'll finish with this one. I've got more. I'm trying to keep it succinct. An absolute banger. And it's the smallest banger book of all time. It's a little teeny book about this big. It's called Steal like an Artist by Austin Kleon, who's in Austin, Texas. And I had the privilege of interviewing him years ago on the Entree Leadership Podcast. That book has shaped me as much as any book I'VE ever read and it's a little easy read and I don't even know if you could consider it a book, but it is awesome. So those would be bangers for me, man.
- [62:07]
Sean Cannell
Such a great list. And I'll make sure that all of those are in the show notes as well as Ken's resources and I would add to the list your book, Ken Proximity Principle I talk about all the time. We actually just did a three day, a two day YouTube mastermind in Las Vegas and one of the sessions was kind of more three principles that really changed my life and helped me scale 1 was scared money don't make Money. One was the importance of vision, but one was the Proximity Principle. And man, it's such a powerful principle and a powerful book. And so I would recommend a couple things to Think Media Podcast listeners if any of those resonated with you. Check out some of those resources and books in the show notes. There's also another conversation that Ken and I did that was very powerful on the Think Media podcast, which would be a great follow up listen that will also link in the show notes and then check out his resources and his new show. And I want to thank you again for being a listener to the podcast. If you got value today like rate, share, review wherever you watch or listen, my name is Sean Cannell, your guide to building a profitable YouTube channel and I cannot wait to connect with you in a future episode.