Sean Cannell (3:30)

Now it might seem like you have an unfair advantage because you were already a guitar teacher. I would say that's a proven topic that people would want to actually pay for. But if someone's listening to this, they want to launch an online course. How would you encourage them to try to validate their idea so that they don't create a course or package something into a course that like, won't actually sell or that people are not interested in actually paying for?

Lauren Bateman (4:01)

Yeah, that's a big mistake that a lot of people make. They release a course and, you know, it's crickets. And part of the reason it was crickets for me was because I didn't have, you know, a giant audience yet. But what I would do, and this is what, you know, when I coach and I work with people, what I tell them to do is go find a Facebook group. Okay, go find a Facebook group, beginner guitar group, how to lose weight group, whatever your expertise is. And just go in the comments and see the questions people are asking. Because most of the time there's going to be a theme or the questions are going to be very, very similar. And you can start seeing what the common problems are that your client or your potential client would have. And then you'd ask yourself, well, you can I create a course around this problem? So remember, courses is helping people get a transformation. You're taking them from point A to maybe point C or point D. You're trying to help them move through this problem and come out on the other side feeling like they've won. So that would be my biggest recommendation, is just do Some research on what people are looking for.

Sean Cannell (5:08)

And what was the name of your original course?

Lauren Bateman (5:10)

I think it was, yeah, Beginner Guitar. Lauren Bateman's Beginner guitar course. I wasn't good at making up names in the beginning.

Sean Cannell (5:19)

That's great. But I mean that's also. That's amazing. That's. That's where you started. You got it out there. As you mentioned, you got two sales, right?

Lauren Bateman (5:26)

Yeah.

Sean Cannell (5:27)

And. And then you've scaled up to there. I'm curious how you determine the, the scope, the course development process. I think that listeners to this can feel overwhelmed. Am I teaching, you know, 10 years? 101, 201, 301, 401 of the topic. Where do I start, where do I end, where do I determine how it should be structured for you? What was your course development process early on?

Lauren Bateman (5:57)

Yeah, so the first version of my course was basically what would I teach someone in the first three months of coming into my studio? So the goal was to teach them some simple chords, some simple strumming patterns and get them to be able to play, you know, a few songs on their guitar. And that, that was the original part of the course. And then, you know, as people went through it, I saw they were asking more questions and then I kind of added onto it and it became a bigger course. But I think for a lot of people that's a good place to start. Is like, if I was going to help someone, what would be the first 90 day transformation they have to go through to feel like they would have a win? So for me, if someone can go from not being able to play guitar at all to being able to feel comfortable playing even some simple songs on the guitar after 90 days, that's a transformation, that's a win. And then you can either create, you know, another module that maybe answers another question, or you start segueing people into other courses that take them further along the journey.

Sean Cannell (6:59)

The time based approach is genius. Like when thinking about. I've heard one person put it this way, you know, if you only actually had. If you want to make a mini course, if you only had a day to spend with a person, or actually if you only had a week to spend with a person, or you only had a day to spend with a person, or you only had an hour to spend with a person. And one of the ways that you can market and sell a course is masterclass or webinars. We'll do those at Think Media. Maybe many listeners have watched one where I will take an hour to Teach as much as I can in an hour. And that leads then to, well, I have a whole course on that because what I would teach in an hour, maybe that's the free thing. Punchline is thinking about a time limitation because no matter what it is, there's only gonna be, oh, as much as I could teach in a day or a week or a 30 day transformation, 60 day, 90 day transformation. That is incredibly insightful. Any other thoughts on course development and maybe mistakes you made early on that now that you've reworked it and improved it that would you wish you knew back when you started?

Lauren Bateman (8:10)

Yeah, I mean, going back to that time perspective is, you know, like I mentioned earlier, I kept adding to the course as people were having more problems and eventually I got this giant course that just took people too long to get through. So we're actually going back and reworking the course so people can work through this a little bit quicker. We're kind of going to split it into two separate courses, kind of like the beginner and then like the late beginner course. So that was kind of a mistake. You know, in the beginning you're like, I have to give so much value, I have to give so much content. But there could be a point where you give too much. So, so keep that in mind. And that's why, you know, speaking to what, what Sean said, the time limit thing is a very good framework to work inside of. And also understanding that, you know, it's going to be frustrating the first time you make a course. And I love the idea of a mini course. That's what I tell people to do. I'm like, just make a course that's really short because you know your mic's not going to work or your lighting's not going to be good, or you're still learning your camera settings. Like you're going to make so many mistakes in those first 10 videos. You know, make those mistakes and then you can make, make something that's bigger. So for me, you know, my biggest mistakes were the lighting and the audio wasn't greatest on like the first iteration of my course, but eventually those are things you can upgrade. So as long as the content is great, content is king, you should do pretty good.

Sean Cannell (9:35)

You know, this also reminds me of what can hold a lot of us back, which is wanting the course to be perfect. And you mentioned kind of it being a mistake, but to me it actually seems like it's more of the process and I think that's been our journey as well. You started and you got your product to market and then you started to get feedback and you started to get questions and then you started to improve it. And to this day you, you're still improving it. That's really a never ending process. If you've never heard of the concept, ship it. Think media podcast and that's s H I P it Ship it. It's a business mindset that prioritizes action, execution, iteration and really launching your project. Even though it's not flawless, the idea of done is better than perfect and speed is greater than stalling. The famous story is Xbox. When the original Xbox was coming out, they had major competition. They were going up against Sony's PlayStation, Nintendo. Microsoft had never created a gaming console before and they ultimately knew they had to get the product out the door. Ship it doesn't mean sloppy, but it means build fast, learn faster and refine as you go. And when they rushed their hardware to market, they ran into a bunch of issues. There were software bugs and crashes, there was a limited game library. They hadn't built any trust. They actually lost billions of dollars. Billions of. They lost money. Every console they sold was actually a loss leader. But you fast forward to today. Where is Xbox now? Bottom line is, as you listen to this episode, thinking about launching your own online course. Not sloppy because I think some people take this to the extreme and they put out a product that shouldn't be released. But I do think perfectionism holds a lot of people back. And the powerful thing about getting your product to market is then you can improve it, learn along the way, create different versions. Lauren, talk about that process. If there's any other thoughts you have on just you've built a multimillion dollar course selling business. What was your propensity to take massive action but then improve all the different things along the way? And maybe not just the course. The systems, fulfillment, customer service. What have you had to learn along the way?

Lauren Bateman (11:52)

Yeah, I mean, you know, and speaking to not being a perfectionist, you know, if you wait for the perfect product, you know, you might, it might take you so long to develop this product. It takes so long to actually make money off of it. So. So get the product out there, make some money. You can always, always improve upon it. And as you sell more and you get more customers, you know, the bigger your business is, the bigger your problems get. You know, I couldn't answer all the emails in the beginning. I was handling all, you know, the password resets and the customer service issues. I was like, okay, this is getting a little bit hectic and this was around the time I hired my editor. And I said, well, I have this editor. Maybe he can also help me, you know, when he has some extra time with doing some of the customer service stuff. So then I started learning how to outsource, manage a team to help me run this business on the back end. And again, you know, a big thing I always did, I always went to the clients and being like, what do you want next? You know, so when I made my second course, I did a survey and I said, here's all the topics that I would love to, to teach you guys about. Which one do you want next? And it ended up being a finger picking course. They really, really wanted to dive deep on finger picking. And I said, okay, perfect. So that was the next course I made. So I had this initial course and again I was getting feedback on that and we'd make notes and I'd be like, oh, I should, I can add a video in here to kind of hit that problem. Or you know, we had an email follow up sequence. It's like, maybe we just need to send people hitting this pain point or letting people know that this is a normal part of the process. But we were really big on listening to what our clients want. So as we kind of build out our product suite, we weren't just randomly picking at this. Well, I think this is what people will want. No, we just went to the customer and we said, what do you want next? So I think that's very important is not only getting feedback on how you can improve a product, but, but also going to your clients and just being like, what do you want? And giving it to them. It makes the process a lot easier.

Sean Cannell (13:56)

What pricing strategies worked best for your course and how did you decide what to price it initially? How have you figured out the process of maybe doing different payment plans or pricing in general? Are you ready to start your YouTube channel but you don't know where to begin? Or have you been posting videos but you're frustrated because you're just not getting the views and nobody is seeing them? For a limited time, you can get the number one bestselling YouTube strategy book, YouTube Secrets for Free at ytsecrets. Com. This book is the proven blueprint that has helped thousands of people go from zero subscribers to a thriving channel. All I ask is that you pay shipping and then I will mail you the brand new updated second edition of YouTube secrets. And when you place your order today, there's a couple other super cool things that'll hook you up with. First, you're going to get instant access to a free deep dive masterclass where I will break down the exact strategy I'm currently using to generate over 120,000 views per day every single day on YouTube and generate over $100,000 per month on the platform, as well as the three biggest mistakes that most creators make when starting and trying to grow their channel. That class is free to watch instantly when you pick up this special offer. Now you're also going to get my video series called the Perfect Video Recipe. One of the updated chapters in the second edition is titled the Perfect Video Recipe. It's actually a formula for how to structure YouTube videos to get maximum views and how to break through in the YouTube algorithm. This is the exact formula that readers of the book and our students are using to generate millions of views. And again, that'll just be included when you jump on this limited offer. Third, you're going to get access to our 1000 Subs Club email newsletter, which delivers actionable weekly tips to your email inbox that will help you get to 1,000 subscribers fast. And we also do really cool weekly giveaways that includes lighting and microphones and YouTube equipment, plus software that will help you on your creator journey. But here's the thing. Supplies are limited on this free book promotion. So if you want to grab this offer, go to ytsecrets.com right now and just place your order covering shipping and I'll get this book in the mail to you right away.

Lauren Bateman (16:12)

I didn't know how to price a course. I didn't, you know, I'd never made a course before. I didn't, you know, and this is speaking to competition. And, you know, I have lots of people in the guitar space who are selling guitar courses for $10, $20. And you know, I was like, man, I really don't want to sell my course for, for 20 bucks. You know, there are a lot of people that had millions of subscribers, so they were playing the volume game. Well, I didn't have millions of subscribers, so I wanted to sell my course for substantially more than most people were charging for guitar courses. And I think I started off with the first iteration of my product was like $97, which was, which was very cheap at the time. And we've kind of gone up and down on the pricing for that flagship course. Now we charge 297, which is a really nice sweet spot for, you know, a do it yourself course with, with not a lot of involvement. For me, this means, like, they're not really interacting with me, there's not a lot of Q and A. And then eventually we started a community for people who wanted that Q and A, who wanted more of that interaction too, who wanted more access to me. So again, talking about, as you grow your product suites, what do people want? Ways you can add different things. So, yeah, it's just crazy how everything goes from being so simple and then. And then it can explode. But pricing wise, we stay around 297, which is a great price point. It's not $20, which a lot of people will. I get emails from people all the time. Well, so and so is charging $20. And I'm like, well, go buy so and so's product and course. Like, here's the testimonials. This works for people and for us, you know, we found that 297 price point works really well and we sell a lot of courses.

Sean Cannell (17:57)

And then you mentioned the community. Did you add that in or do you have some kind of ongoing. If they want to add on access to community?

Lauren Bateman (18:03)

Yeah. So when they buy the course, they get a free trial to the community. Initially we just included it as part of. Part of the thing. But I was like, this is so valuable. I think people would pay for it. So we have a free trial that comes with the course. And then if people want to upgrade, it's 197 a year to be part of the community. I do Q and A in there once a month where people can, can ask me questions. You know, I was just in there before we came on here and I was in there answering people's questions, just saying hello, welcoming people. So there are some people who are going to want a little bit more than just, you know, do it on your own course.

Sean Cannell (18:41)

Yeah. And you know what's interesting is I think this might be one of the most important parts of the conversation is like, price has a lot to do with mindset. It has a lot to do with pricing psychology. And I think we oftentimes project maybe low value on our own education or our own course or our own thing that we're going to create. And we actually, I think the wrong thing to do is to let the market define what your. Your pricing is. Like you said, just because somebody else has a $20 course, okay, that's great. You know, Walmart has a $20 shirt. That's probably a great shirt. Somebody could buy it. Nordstrom has a $200 shirt. People pay for that as well. What's the difference? A lot of it's just psychology, but it's also transformation. You know, I've learned that the, the transformations in the transaction. When I buy a $15 book on my health, which I've done, I have a trigger points book. I have some book about recovering. I haven't actually read the book. I'm gonna be honest, I didn't read it. I paid a, a, a personal trainer $5,000 and I showed up to every single session like so. So at the different levels, you know, $20 says cheap beginner, maybe low effort. 297 says serious transformation, professional instruction, deeper expertise and the information could be similar. But people are also going to be connecting with you. That's the power of starting a YouTube channel, is you're the person. It, it's. Don't even worry about comparing yourself. They're following you. They, they've connected with you on your YouTube channel. You also attract more serious students. Dabblers will pay the lower amount. I d the things I dabble at. I've, you know, I got books on my shelf at the hobbies I've dabbled at that I have not done. But when you, again, when you pay more, you get more committed people who show up. And then also, I think pricing signals positioning at the end of the day. Not to compare it just to like high fashion or something, which can get kind of ridiculous at times, but nevertheless is true. Slap a logo, you could call it Nike. Slap a Nike logo on a shirt or shoes and all of a sudden you're charging 10 or 20 times more for really the hard cost of the good is not any different. But that's positioning. And like you said, you're not if your mindset, you're just selling a course. I think you have a limited mindset. You're actually selling transformation. What would it be worth to transform from a casual, frustrated guitar player into a confident player? And people, I love that you said people really, what they want is outcomes, not hours. And we're learning that as well as we're reworking this next version of video ranked Academy. In today's world, with it being so busy, sometimes we also think, oh, I need to add more videos and more content and more to dos. That's what would make the price go up. That's not actually true. People just want the outcome. And what's actually kind of funny is there's an old story, right, of the individual who had an issue with their computer and they couldn't get their computer to work, so they hired the tech and the tech came over and went to the back of the computer, pulled Out a screwdriver, turned the screw a half inch, fixed the computer, and then charge the person $200. And they said $200. All you did was turn the screw or replace the screw. And they're like, why is it $200? And they're like, well, it's 50 cents for the screw and it's $199.50 for knowing which screw to turn. Funny story. That's probably not even true. But it illustrates the point, right, of, of like, that specialized knowledge. But it's the result. If my computer doesn't work, I just had to do plumbing twice in a row in a week. I had to fix the toilet and then another leak. And my friend Anthony was like, yeah, a weekend of rolling up your sleeves and doing it yourself, you probably could have saved. I paid twelve hundred dollars to replace the toilet, and I could have done it myself for 200. Although what my friend Anthony didn't know is I actually couldn't have done it myself because my skill, he's like, you could. I'm like, nah, bro. Actually, I'm kind of handy. But like, not. Not really. Not at that level. But here's the bottom line, like the, the specialization. If I would have done it, probably would have been leaking again. What am I after? Just wanting to encourage listeners that they probably should rate their prices. You, you probably should go up market because when you charge even higher, you're going to attract better customers, you're going to get more commitment. It's going to lead to more results for the individuals. A lot of these things are pricing psychology. Lauren, any other thoughts on that one as we keep it moving?

Lauren Bateman (23:09)

Yeah. And remember, sometimes, you know, people will pay more money for just saving time. You know, I mean, that's a big part of our marketing because a lot of our people are coming from YouTube. And I mentioned it earlier, I'm like, hey, you're haphazardly learning to play guitar. And you could spend years, you know, you can watch all the free YouTube videos, you can watch all my videos on YouTube for free. And you'd probably become a really good guitar player, but it might take you two or three years, or you could spend 297 in the next six months. You could do everything much quicker. So don't forget that people are also, you know, they're paying for the value, they're paying for the transformation, but they're also paying to sometimes save time on what it would cost to get that end result.

Sean Cannell (23:53)

Such a good point. I was just watching the first episode of the New black mirror. And I couldn't figure out why I had ads. And I was like, am I on the wrong. I was like, what. What? Am I on the wrong Netflix? Or is Netflix forcing ads on my. On my premium account? And. And I couldn't do it manually, and I didn't want to go to my computer. Here's my point. Why would people. You just said it. Pay for an online course where they could watch the information on YouTube? YouTube. The information's all spread out. Some of it's outdated. You also don't necessarily. You don't know who you could trust. Who are you even following? You know? And. And so that's the question we always ask with our online course for. For YouTube. We just say, do you value your time? Because if you have unlimited time, you could just search the web and search AI and search Google and watch YouTube and, like, eventually you'll get there. But smart people value their time, and they'll exchange money to shorten that learning curve. And there's no ads even more so there's no distraction. You're not constantly introducing yourself in every video. And you've. Or you've organized it, you know, One of the people who's helped me with online courses, Chalene Johnson, gave me the illustration that the reason people pay for an online course is it's like baking a cake. But it's not just the recipe. It's the right steps in the right order with the right temperature of the stove, with all of the right. And on YouTube, some videos are about the sprinkles. Like, oh, that's fancy. Like, oh, and that. And you're like, oh, I love that. But if you're gonna get all the right steps in all the right order with do this first, do this second all in one place, no ads interrupting your Hulu or Netflix experience or YouTube experience and being able to watch it in a linear fashion, smart people will pay for that. And some people will never buy an online course. You would have never reached them in the first place. Some people will never buy a book. You cannot actually sell a book to people who don't buy books. It's gotta make sense. It's literally a pot if they're never gonna buy a book. But these are all limiting beliefs. But people who do invest in their education will happily exchange money for packaged information because they understand the power of it. So just thinking about who you're reaching. Hey, we're about to get back into the podcast in just a second, but I have a question for you. Do you want to grow your personal brand this year, do you need more leads and sales in your business? If the answer is yes, then right now is the best time to go all in on YouTube. Today's podcast is brought to you by thinkmasterclass.com where you can get on demand access to a one hour deep dive training revealing how to start and grow a profitable YouTube channel. This year, for a limited time, you can get access to this on demand class entirely for free, where you will learn the three biggest mistakes that people make when starting a YouTube channel. The new rules and changes that have been happening on YouTube and how you can use them to create an unfair advantage, and the exact, exact strategy we use at Think Media to generate over 350,000 organic views every single day. The data is clear. 70% of viewers claim that YouTube makes them more aware of new brands. So don't wait any longer to start growing your brand and business with YouTube. Just go to thinkmasterclass.com to get access to this. No fluff, highly tactical, free on demand training. That's think masterclass.com here's the nitty gritty platforms. When you started, where'd you host this thing? Talk about your, your, your business email hosting community. Have you moved? Do you like the platform you on? Are you frustrated by it? Break some of this stuff down. When people think about where do I host my online course?

Lauren Bateman (27:35)

Yeah. So you know, when I was looking to host an online course, I'm like, bad mentality, which one's the cheapest for me to get started with. And I ended up with Teachable because they had a very cheap starter package. But I didn't like their landing pages as much. The sales side and the marketing side of Teachable I didn't enjoy as much. And you know, when I was taking courses, I started noticing, I'm like, I'm taking this course from this person. They're using Kajabi. I'm taking, you know, I was taking a grant cardone course and I think he was using Kajabi. And I'm like, okay, if these big people are using Kajabi, I should probably also be using Kajabi. So then I had like two or three courses at the time. We rebuilt the platform in Kajabi in the reason I like that, you know, because I was using mailchimp. I had all these different things in different areas and for me, simplicity in business is what I prefer. So I like having everything under one roof. My community is in Kajabi and you know, let's hand it to Facebook, they're they're the kings of like attention and their groups and their communities are, are really great. They really are interactive. But what I found was happening. You know, a lot of people were, were following me on Facebook and they were intruding a lot into my personal time. It's very easy on Facebook, you know, to message a creator, find out their personal brand. I know they've updated a lot of things, but I took things off of Kajabi 1 because I could automate the payments. I could create a subscription plan and automate when people were in the community or we could remove them if they canceled their subscription or they no longer wanted to be a member. Instead of someone manually going in and doing this. The email is all in Kajabi. We, you know, we tag people depending, you know, did they come from the free crash course, did they come from our webinar? Did they buy a course or have they not bought yet? So there's a lot of cool things you can do in Kajabi and I really do like their landing pages. I do think they're, they're nice and pretty and I think their website builder is really great. I don't really like it as a website platform. I use WordPress now. When I first started my website business, I used Squarespace, was simple enough to build and then we were looking for a little bit more functionality, some global templates and stuff that we could do. So a couple years ago I revamped the website and I had someone professionally build it out in WordPress. So that's the one thing I think Kajabi is for SEO reasons and I'm big on SEO. I think WordPress is a much better platform for hosting a website. But in terms of hosting landing pages, selling your courses, having your community, your email list, like you can go very, very far with the Kajabi platform.

Sean Cannell (30:16)

It's a really good recommendation and I would affirm that. You know, over the years we have like recently we upgraded to HubSpot which is ridiculous and I mean great but like it's a very expensive like just kind of higher level CRM and absolutely not the right answer for like a new creator or a starting creator all things considered. And there's all, you know, clickfunnels has had highs and lows and mostly lows lately and high level has come in and there's teachable and there's thinkific. Really Kajabi, I would agree with you is such is just if you overthink it, which a hundred percent of people listening to this will overthink this, they'll research this for months, watch all these videos instead of overthinking it. Pulling the trigger on Kajabi is a pretty smart move and it will take you incredibly far. And I also like betting on companies that have a strong foundation. Like a lot of developers. You know they're going to be here in the future and I guess you don't know anything for sure. But Kajabi, I've met the newer CEO at Vidcon and I met the founders originally and we spent time and been at their offices and I think they have new offices now. Their future is bright. And so anyways, if you're thinking about like, pick one and pull the trigger. And one of my mentors says, scared money don't make money. So sometimes it's like eventually you got to invest in these tools. And asking yourself, what's the cheapest tool? I don't think is the best question. I think thinking about what tool is going to help you focus on what you need to focus on most do the heavy lifting for you. So we'll link some resources in the description below for you. And I do believe with, through our link you could get even, you know, 30 days free and some other perks and bonuses from Kajabi if you want to check that one out. And, and it can be all in one. But here's the other thing you might. It's painful to change, but that's, that's just life, I think that holds too many people back in business. Like, what if someday I have to change? Oh, you probably will. Well, what if it's really painful? It will be. Well, what if, like, I don't do the right thing today and eventually I have to like, remake my course? No, you will like that. That like, you cannot steer a park car. You start in business, you move fast, you get things out and then you just know that like, you want to make the best educated decision today, but then eventually it's going to be okay to pivot later. I want to hear any other thoughts you have on that. And then in this final section, I do want to talk about actually selling the course. The power of YouTube course launches, lessons you've learned. But any other thoughts about delivery platforms, logistics and an encouragement for listeners because this is the kind of stuff that stresses us all out.

Lauren Bateman (32:59)

No. And even to speak what you were saying, like, oh, what happens if I have to change it? Well, we'll hopefully, if you're building a business and you're growing a real business by that point, hopefully you will have A team that will do all of the heavy lifting for you. When we, when I changed over platform, I didn't change the platform. I basically told, you know, my assistant, I said, hey, we gotta move these courses over to this platform. I did like a little loom video on. Here's how to upload the videos, here's how to create a course. And they built the platform for me. So if you're like down the road, what if I have to change it? Just know, you know, if you were on the right trajectory and you're treating YouTube like a business and you're selling a course, hopefully there's going to be some growth. Hopefully at some point you will have a team and doing some of these changes won't give you the headaches. You know, they, you think they will. And speaking to, to process and building a course, you know, the biggest thing I overlooked in the beginning was building an email list. You know, I make so much money off my mailing list now and that was a component that I ignored for a very, very long time. So as you're building a business, even if you don't have a course yet, even if you don't have a, you know, give, give something away for free, start collecting those emails because there is so much money, there is so much value in an email list, start building it from the get go. Do not wait.

Sean Cannell (34:26)

That's really good. And I do want to learn about. Building the email list is one way to sell. YouTube has been helpful with that, how you have sold your course. But I was reminded by when you're making a decision what to name your course, which platform to host it on, all these decisions in business, and I want to hear in a second what you, you said eventually you're going to hire a team. I'm actually curious the stages, how much money did you make first, how long did it take and then when did you delegate? Because this speaks to the fact where that might feel unbelievable to listeners, but it's like that's the faith of being an entrepreneur. You're doing what you need to do today to get the thing moving. But then you gotta level up, you gotta delegate, you gotta hire and you're. You doesn't. Your life doesn't have to get crazy complex. It might be one va, it might be an integrator that's helping you. It could be virtual. They might be all contractors. You could keep it lean. It doesn't have to, you know, there's different ways of doing it. But I was reminded of the 70% rule from Jeff Bezos and I think everybody listening could benefit from this. And it was this 70% is enough rule. And he actually shared this in his 2016 letter to Amazon shareholders. And most decisions should be made with about 70% of the information you wish you had. And what this means is that if you're waiting for like feeling like it's perfect, the title's perfect, you pick the perfect software, you have the perfect outline, you'll never reach there because. And if you wait until 90 to 100% of all the info or feeling all the confidence, you're going to have paralysis by analysis, missed opportunities and slow decision making, which kills momentum in fast moving industries. Your competitors will lap you because you're just taking too long to execute. So if you've got like 70% and some people round down to even 60%, then that's enough. And, and then you want to ask, is the decision reversible or is it irreversible? Can you change your software later? It's an reversible decision. Can you change the name of your court? You might not want to, because it's nice to stick with the name. There's SEO, but you can change some of these. These are not like life threatening decisions. Can you hire somebody and could you fire them? Or like, if they don't work out after a 30 day, you're just clear about that. 30 days, 90 days is a trial. These are reversible decisions. Now some decisions are if they're truly irreversible, then you might want to take longer. But so much stuff in business is about, like, get enough of the information, pull the trigger and then realize like, speed is going to be. The cost of making of indecision is oftentimes infinitely higher than the cost of even making the wrong decision because you can make another one, you just pivot later. So I hope that encourages individuals. Before we get into sales, take us back when you first sold those first couple of courses. But then eventually you said, well, today I didn't even migrate. You know, my stuff. I had somebody on my team do it. I'm curious about the gap. Like, what happened in that gap of did you make $10,000, six figures, like, how much money until you started hiring, reinvesting and then realizing you needed help.

Lauren Bateman (37:38)

Yeah. So I didn't make a change to hire someone. I think I've been doing YouTube for almost three years. I hired my first person in 2020. It was my editor who I mentioned also did some customer service help for me as well at the time. And, and that was the first thing, because that was the most time consuming process for me was the editing. And if I could, you know, because eventually I started spending more time editing, making things look nicer, putting in, you know, picture in picture, arrows, circles, diagrams to help people, you know, it's a guitar video. So I wanted to make sure visually people could follow along with what I was doing on the screen. So my editing time did get longer as I got into my process of creating the YouTube videos. And that was a lot of time that I could reinvest myself into my business either creating content, making more courses for people to make more money, sending out some marketing emails. The best use of my time at that stage was not editing. And in terms of what was I making, I was probably only making a couple thousand dollars consistently a month when I went to hire someone. So obviously we had the COVID month in April where I made like $16,000 in a single month, which is the most money I'd ever made in my life up until that point. But then, you know, people went back to work and once the COVID bump was over, I went back to making, you know, maybe 2,000, $3,000 a month. So I invested that into, into getting an editor for 20 hours a week. And that's what my business coach was like, hey, get an editor and you're going to hire them for 20 hours a week. And I was like, I don't know If I have 20 hours of work. And he's like, well, when you're paying someone for 20 hours, you will find 20 hours of work for them to do. And he was right. And my editor still works for me to this day, five years later. And he's never missed a day of work. I've never had a day where he didn't have something to work on. So I think that also speaks one. You're outsourcing, you're reinvesting in your business is the first thing. And when you reinvest in your business, it frees up your time as a creator to do the things that help you make more money in your business. So that, you know, you can maybe go hire an admin person or you can hire another team member to, you know, manage your community or do other things. And that's what we, you know, we have done. I have three people who work for me now and you know, I have the person who, who handles a lot of customer service. I kind of have my main administrative who, who helps with, you know, sales and touching base with customers and helping out in the community. And I have my editor who basically at this point just, just edits video constantly or makes, you know, graphics for us when needed. So I think those are important things to think about. One, do I have the money to invest in someone? Because, Because I know for a lot of people, you know, when you start making that money, it's so hard. You want to take it for yourself like you really want. You're like, I'm finally making money, even if it's only 1000, $2000. Like those are life changing dollar amounts for people. I don't want to underestimate that. But my recommendation, if you can, if you're really not struggling, you don't need that money. Reinvest it in your business because that's when you can put more of your time into doing the things that actually make more money for your business.

Sean Cannell (41:05)

Such valuable wisdom. And I'm excited to talk about now as we get into this final section. Okay, we've, we've planned out a course, we've made a course and there's obviously such granular detail to this, but we're also talking about getting it to market, getting feedback on it, pick, you know, Kajabi, whatever. 70% of information is all you need. Make a decision and you could prove as you go. But how do you sell the course? How do you market the course? Would you agree that YouTube is by far the number one platform that every course creator should be on?

Lauren Bateman (41:40)

Absolutely. And I can say that with a hundred percent certainty because we survey every client who buys my courses and we say, hey, like, why did you buy now versus three months ago versus like, what was, what influenced you to make a purchase today? And I will tell you, almost 100% of it's like, I watched you on YouTube and I really liked what you were doing on YouTube. And I went and I bought your course. And it speaks to what we were talking about earlier. You have people who have a problem. They're searching in YouTube to try and find the answer to this problem. And then they see you in this video and they've probably watched a bunch of videos haphazardly and they're like, oh, I really like this Lauren person. People will tell me, they're like, you know, I watched this person, I watched that person. But there was something about the way you taught that really spoke to me. And I watched a couple more of your videos and when I realized that, like, I really liked what you were doing, I went over to your website and I bought your course. And hands down, that is the story of Most of my clients, I watched some of your videos on YouTube. I liked you, I bought your course.

Sean Cannell (42:48)

The mistake that 99% of course sellers make is they don't understand that they don't understand the 7114 rule from Google. They run ads and they don't have any core sales. They make a few promotions, they get clicks through their website that sells their course or the landing page or their sales page, but they don't have any course sales. And the 7114 rule is Google has revealed different numbers, it depends on the price point. But essentially that someone needs to spend seven hours with you on 11 different touch points on four platforms before they make a purchase. And that's why YouTube is so powerful, because seven hours, you know, one that speaks to the fact that your videos are 10 to 15 minutes. That means I'm going to watch 20, 30, 40 videos from you. But when you survey, people wouldn't be surprised if a lot of that's happened. And that's so much connection and trust building and relationship building that's happening because you committed to build a library on YouTube. So now somebody, the friction when they land on your landing page. That's what most people say, what's wrong with my sales page? What's wrong with the copy on my sales page? What's wrong with my ads? I'm saying you're looking at the wrong thing. You haven't spent seven hours with somebody before they even made it to your sales page. And then 11 touch points, well, that could be one YouTube video, another YouTube video, this week, the next week, or it's one Saturday. Because a lot of individuals might be like, man, Lauren, she's so cool. They found you from searching, but then they looked in your library and they could go all the way from not even knowing you to purchasing your course in the afternoon because they might spend three, four, five hours with you in one day. And then for platforms, it also speaks to the holistic strategy of those platforms. Might be YouTube, maybe they follow you on Instagram or maybe it's YouTube. They go to your course website, they look at it, they don't even buy at that point, but they touch the website, they check out your other, your main website, they get on your email list, they get a few emails, those would then be emails. A platform websites, a platform course. So Google 7114 rule, the math doesn't have to be perfect because again, if you had a mini course that was $7, well, there's a lot of people. That's an impulse buy. You know, it's that is literally like a checkout line at a grocery store where I'm like, oh yeah, I guess I want some mints and a magazine and some Cheetos. Spicy Cheetos like my son Sean Bradley likes right now, even though they have red 40 and I'm a bad parent for letting him eat those. But you know, you know, forgive me. Rfk like ultimately niche references, ultimately it's thinking about the fact, well, impulse buy might not take as much of a deep impact, but your course $297 our main program, a thousand dollar program. This is, this is one of the reasons why people build Trust is and YouTube is at the center of it all. And may I attack one other thing. Vertical video is cool, shorts are cool, reels are cool. But it's gonna be tough to get to seven hours on short form content. And not only that, a lot of us, even though we may have scrolled yesterday on Instagram or YouTube shorts, I don't remember who I watched. I remember I maybe DMs, some people, some stuff like that was funny. I don't know who the creator was. It is the content. But it's a different environment. It's humor, it's relational. We're not in the same mindset as YouTube. You're an educator, you're a guitar teacher. Stats reveal that people come to YouTube to learn something. The CMO of HubSpot said that YouTube subscribers are the most valuable subscribers on the Internet because those that are serious watching content like yours are there to learn something and thus they're really pre positioned to just joyfully be interested in the course that you're going to eventually offer. So I hope that listeners would consider YouTube as being the fundamental place that every, anybody that ever has a course you currently do, you're thinking about creating one. Build your YouTube influence. Break it down. What's been your experience with that, Lauren, what are your thoughts?

Lauren Bateman (46:55)

Oh yeah. And this is where YouTube gets very powerful because if you know who your audience are, you know their problems, you know their pain points, you can make videos around that. You know, I have lots of videos. My demographic is older adults over the age of 50 who want to learn to play guitar. And some of my top ranking videos, they might not have millions of views, but they're very demographic specific. It's the top mistakes you make when learning guitar over 50. You know, can you learn guitar over the age of 50? I put out a lot of these videos and I get people like, I watched that video you made because I'll talk About like, you know, there are great guitar players out there, but they may not be great teachers or you may have learned with an in person, you know, teacher before, and all they did was noodle in your lesson or they want, you know, they were winging it. They didn't have any structure. So I talk about real pain points and real experiences that I know people had. One, because I was an in person teacher, and two, because people tell me about those experiences when they buy my course. Like, I had this horrible in person teacher and, you know, there was no structure. They were more about playing what they wanted to in their lessons. So I make videos talking about these stories about my students, and then, you know, at the end I'll say, hey, you know, if you have one of these bad experiences, you're looking for more structure and you enjoyed this video. Go check out my course. So I use my YouTube videos as little sales pitches. I'm. I'm educational as well, because we want to give, we want to help people. But every One of my YouTube videos is a sales pitch for my brand, my products, and my services. I might not always do a direct pitch because YouTube doesn't like when you always send people away from their platform. So not every video is a dedicated sales pitch, but I do have some videos that are dedicated sales pitches. And I might briefly mention that I have a course. So we'll put a graphic on the screen that I have a course, little subliminal messaging. But literally every piece of content I have on YouTube is a billboard for my products and services. And what better way to get to know a brand than spend 15 minutes with them and say, wow, and maybe they're going to like, Sean said they might spend a whole day with you because they go down that wormhole of like, well, this is next. Let me watch this. All right, so they're five or six videos in, and they're like, you know what? I remember Lauren said she had a course. Let me go buy that now. So YouTube, hands down the most powerful platform. And I agree with you 100%. You got to do the horizontal long form video. Shorts are great. You know, you can get in someone's feed, but the relationship is really built in that long form content.

Sean Cannell (49:35)

Well, I have one final question for you, and it's about like the next 30 days. Like, what would my next few steps be? I want to commit to building an online course. First couple steps that I should do going out the gate. But if people want to connect with you, shout it out and we'll link to Your stuff in the show notes. And I also want to mention in part one of our conversation, we talked all about YouTube starting from scratch. Growing the lessons you've Learned, growing over 500,000 subscribers. And that has been the engine over $3 million in core sales. Your YouTube channel, as you've just described, has been the engine for that. So even if you never create an online course, there's so many other ways to monetize on YouTube. If you think been thinking about starting if you're on the fence, if you want to learn more information from Lauren, we'll link to part one of our conversation in the show notes. But Lauren, if you want to follow you connect with you, where, where can they reach out?

Lauren Bateman (50:33)

Yeah, the best place to, you know, connect with me and chitchat is to head on over to Instagram. My, my handle is the Lauren Bateman. T H e the Lauren Bateman. Shoot me a DM and I'll definitely get back to you over there.

Sean Cannell (50:45)

Amazing. And my final question is, if we are okay, I'm ready to create my first online course. What are my first couple steps? Like if it's you, you're starting from scratch with what you know today and you're thinking about making progress on that course in the next 30 days, what would you do?

Lauren Bateman (51:04)

Yeah, so step one, just do that simple research that I said. Go, go find a Facebook group, see what people are saying, what are the common questions, what are the common problems? And just write a list. You might not course to solve all of those problems. You know, to solve all the problems is probably a bigger course in general, or it could be multiple courses. Find the theme and say, okay, is there a mini course like I was talking about earlier, Is there a mini course or even a masterclass that you could give to solve this one, two or maybe three quick little problems and then package it in a course and let people know like, hey, are you trying to learn guitar on YouTube but you're feeling frustrated? You know, can you, can you kind of play songs here and there but you can't play through an entire full song? Well, go check out my 14 day guitar success program where I'm going to show you how to go from point A to point B and that's it. Keep it simple, don't try to overcomplicate it. Do your research, figure out, can I solve this problem in five to 10 videos? Don't go and make a 50, 60, 70 video course. You don't need that in the beginning because now you got a course you can test the market and you can get feedback from people so that you can make improvements and you can grow moving forward.

Sean Cannell (52:24)

Such brilliant advice. Think Media Podcast if you've got additional questions about this topic, I know if you're on audio you would need to come over to the YouTube version so you could drop us a comment. I am curious, would you like to learn more about this topic? Do you have any specific questions about online courses? Drop those in the comments because I'd love to do some follow up episodes and help in any way that I can. And we can also like rate, review or share wherever you watch or listen. So grateful for this Think Media Podcast community. Want to send you love and respect today and thank you for making it this far. Who if you're here, you're a real one. You know that. Either one. You're multitasking and you're on headphones and you're like, I actually would switch the episode but I'm taking the laundry out and I'm folding it right now and you're already skipped off if you're on YouTube. But I will say, grateful you're here. Thanks for the love. My name is Sean Cannell, your guide to building a profitable YouTube channel and we'll connect with you in a future episode.