Loading summary
Transcript63 lines
- [00:00]
Sean Cannell
Hey, before we jump into the show, I wanted to give you a heads up that my free YouTube strategy class is available right now on demand@thinkmasterclass.com on the class, I reveal the one YouTube strategy we use at Think Media to generate over 330,000 views every single day. So if you're new to YouTube, this will help you start right and avoid mistakes. And if you're a YouTube pro, this training will help you multiply your your growth. This class is 100% free and you can watch it now on demand@think masterclass.com now let's jump into today's show. He made $30,000 on YouTube with only 5,000 subscribers.
- [00:43]
Nathan S. Swine
One of the biggest myths about starting something on the side is this idea of balance.
- [00:47]
Sean Cannell
No brand deals, no viral shorts. Just one thing most creators never think to do.
- [00:53]
Nathan S. Swine
It's so difficult to spend 40 hours, 40 plus hours a week at a place that isn't exactly where you'd like to be, and then to try to find the willpower to come home afterwards. This whole YouTube thing was born out of just strife, to be honest. Like, I had a day job and it just never felt like I was in the day job that I was supposed to be in. For me, I always felt like I needed to create something else. And the thing that I couldn't grasp, even back when I was trying to get my channel off the ground, was the whole I didn't just want to make money from one place thing.
- [01:24]
Sean Cannell
Like, at what point did you feel like it was time to add on, let alone consistent content to building out more of a business around what you were doing? While all of this is a side hustle, today's guest on the Think Media podcast is Nathan S. Swine, a music producer, husband and father who turned his tiny YouTube channel into a purpose driven side hustle that helped pay off family debt and gave him time, freedom in a crowded niche. And he's not just a creator, he's a builder who, who walked away in peace. So in today's episode, we're going to be covering the monetization model that still works even in 2025. How he built systems instead of burning out, and why most creators fail to grow, not because of effort, but because of mindset. So if you're just starting out, you're feeling stuck, or you're wondering if a small channel can really make big impact, then this conversation is for you now. Nathan, welcome to the show.
- [02:22]
Nathan S. Swine
Let's go, Sean. Pump to nerd out publicly here. This will be great. Starting to Pour into some new creators, talk about strategy. It's gonna be a great episode.
- [02:31]
Sean Cannell
So I want to go right into the promise of the title. Let's start here. How did you actually make $30,000 on YouTube with just 5,000 subscribers?
- [02:41]
Nathan S. Swine
Yeah. So definitely to cut to the chase, that was not purely on YouTube. So I did get monetized in that process, but it was really like with YouTube, so letting YouTube kind of be a top of funnel, so to speak, for products and services that I offered off of YouTube. So I did like courses, coaching, memberships, some affiliate deals that were in there, but really that's kind of where the bulk of it came from, was not necessarily from YouTube itself.
- [03:09]
Sean Cannell
So describe what they actually were. Was that, was there actual coaching courses and memberships, like multiple products? What were the products?
- [03:16]
Nathan S. Swine
Yeah, so started with a course that was the very first thing that I did because it was manageable for my season. And then kind of moved up towards the tiers, right. So if people came in, they got a course for me in the music production space that could help them solve a problem. Maybe the course wasn't enough. So I was like, okay, I could like build a community. So it was kind of the next thing that I did for people who got the course could then have some other people to hang out with. Right. In the community. And then even from that point, it was kind of just like just continuous process of solving problems. Like, oh, there's people in the community that would benefit from one on one stuff. And so that's when I started to offer coaching and consulting. And check this out, even for musicians, like, that's my niche. Like my niche is literally I'm marketing towards quote unquote broke musicians. And even in that crowd, there's still people who would pay a good bit of money to just have someone in their corner one on one.
- [04:04]
Sean Cannell
What was the name of the course?
- [04:06]
Nathan S. Swine
So the course was called Song Flow. And for people in the music space, it's just like helping people learn how to make a song from start to finish. So in my, in my audience, like that is the biggest pain. Point is you've got the desire and dream to write a song, but you just can't finish it, right? So starting is one thing, but a lot of musicians would start, but they just would never finish their song. And so they'd have demo itis as I would call it, right? You're, you're sitting on sketches, you've got half finished songs, they're not even seeing the light of day. And all you want to do is try to get them on Spotify. So my course solved the pain point of finishing songs specifically. So I could have talked about production, I could have talked about a whole bunch of other stuff, but I just kept seeing, seeing man, even in comments on my YouTube videos, like, what you did helped me finish a song or I'm struggling to finish a song. And so that was that first course was trying to help people. Right at the toughest part of being an independent songwriter, which is actually making songs, like getting them across the finish line.
- [04:59]
Sean Cannell
Well, throughout this conversation, we're going to cover a lot of different things in terms of like maybe season of life, time management, how you got views, how you actually led into your course. But I want to drill a little bit deeper.
- [05:11]
Nathan S. Swine
How long.
- [05:13]
Sean Cannell
What was kind of the timeline of starting your channel? You know, it grew ultimately before you handed it off to 8,000 subscribers, which is a great solid subscriber base, but relatively small, especially for the $30,000. I'm curious, did you know you wanted to approach YouTube with this business mindset from day one?
- [05:34]
Nathan S. Swine
I actually did. I did. And I know it's not most people's story, but the thing was, I mean, full disclosure hung out around Think Media. And the thing that I couldn't grasp even back when I was trying to get my channel off the ground was the whole I didn't just want to make money from one place thing. Like I understood the game of, okay, I have a YouTube channel, gets a lot of views, gets a lot of views consistently. I continue the content conveyor belt, so to speak. Okay, I could live off of like YouTube AdSense, right? But I just, that never sounded good to me. I'm kind of like a risk adverse person. Back in the day was a financial advisor. So I'm kind of like conscious about that was like, oh, I didn't really love just one source for something. And so kind of like where that led me to think was, all right, how do I do other things? Like how do I. What's the other stuff that I could create? And hanging around Think Media, going through some of the courses, even back in the day, like four or five years ago, it helped me think bigger. Like I started to think, oh, okay, this is how this whole YouTube thing connects. And even to this day, right as I get to share with people, helping grow their, helping them grow their channels is like YouTube's a playground, you know, and like, man, you can just play on whatever part you want to. You don't have to do what everyone else is doing. You don't have to chase a whole bunch of trends. While there can be strategy there, it's like, man, if you roll up to the playground and you love the monkey bars, like, go play in the monkey bars and do them on over and over again. You don't have to go play in the slide. You don't have to go play in the sandbox. Right? And so that was kind of the perspective shift that I needed before I really dug in, actually created the channel, started publishing videos. I just. I'm the kind of person that needs to know, where is all this going? And so Even with the YouTube channel, I'm thankful to have had the mentorship to start like that.
- [07:08]
Sean Cannell
So how long did it take to hit a thousand subscribers? Originally?
- [07:11]
Nathan S. Swine
That was about six, seven months for me.
- [07:15]
Sean Cannell
And did you get monetized? You get enough watch time? Hours, relatively? Same amount of time?
- [07:20]
Nathan S. Swine
Yeah, about the same timeframe. They both kind of lined up perfectly for me. So it was about six, seven months in, after publishing consistently, that I was able to apply for the partner program.
- [07:30]
Sean Cannell
And what was your season of life at the time? Family obligations, kids? Anything?
- [07:35]
Nathan S. Swine
Yeah, man, it wasn't too pretty. It's like the origin story SparkNotes version is like, okay, this whole YouTube thing was born out of. It was born out of just strife, to be honest. Like, I had a day job, multiple day jobs, and it just never felt like I was in the day job that I was supposed to be in. And. And so for me, I always felt like I needed to create something else, and I always was moonlighting as a songwriter. So my channel is about helping people make songs, But I was actually a songwriter and producer, so that was always my side hustle that I did. And, man, music industry is pretty insane, right? So I was trying to think of a way, okay, I'm already making songs. Is there a way that, like, what's another angle I could take with this whole making songs thing? And it dawned on me, oh, I could, like, teach people. Like, I'm already making songs. I might as well turn on the camera while I'm making a song for a project and talk about how I'm doing it. Maybe people would find that interesting. I was kind of the guy, like, in the songwriting circles, where people would just ask me, like, hey, Nathan, how do you get your vocals to sound like that? Or what was that production thing you did on the drums? And so I just started answering questions that a lot of fellow songwriters and producers were asking me. And so that's kind of where the whole thing started. Was Getting like clear on that initial set of content that I was going to make.
- [08:49]
Sean Cannell
Where are you living?
- [08:50]
Nathan S. Swine
So living in apartment with my wife and got the day job dread going on. We are in debt too and just trying to think of ways to make more money to get out of this kind of daily grind. And so like mad respect for anyone who's just in that spot right now. I just really, really get it. Like it's so difficult to spend 40 hours, 40 plus hours a week at a place that isn't exactly where you'd like to be and then to try to find the willpower to come home afterwards or get up early beforehan hand and turn it on to try to create something. It's difficult stuff. There's this in Ecclesiastes, there's this verse that's just always stuck with me, which is, in the morning sow your seed, and in the evening don't let your hands be idle if you don't know which will prosper right, this or that, or both will do equally well. And that's a hard tension to live in. So that was the tension that we were in. Like my wife and I both working full time. The dream was for her to be able to come home so we could start a family. And she wanted to be a stay at home mom. That was her dream. But I hadn't quite found my dream yet. And so that was the stew that we were in. Is like kind of asking my wife like, hey, what do you say we give this like a year with this YouTube thing and we just see what, see what happens.
- [10:00]
Sean Cannell
Okay. So I like, I love this context because what I'm curious is once you decide to do the YouTube thing, how many hours a week are you spending doing it?
- [10:11]
Nathan S. Swine
Okay, it got down to 10, we got down to 10, which might sound epic. I don't know if you're listening. You're like, wow, okay, how'd you do that? It was not like that at first. I mean, at first I was probably getting a video out like once a month. There was no weekly cadence. There wasn't anything there because I just lacked the strategy. I didn't have a process. Right? Like, I know we talk about systems a whole bunch here at Think Media, and sometimes if you're listening, I get it, like, you hear somebody say, oh, you need a system, you need a better system. And you're like, yeah, okay, whatever. But it's actually true. Like you really do. Like, if the thing you're doing isn't giving you the results that you want you need to change the thing that you're doing. So kind of had this moment where, okay, we're spending like a month to put out a video because it's all side hustle hours, right? And trying to honor time for family on our time for church. Like the whole full life thing, I think a lot of us can understand. And so we got got it down slowly but surely because of a process down to about 10 hours a week to put out one video a week.
- [11:04]
Sean Cannell
What was the timeline then? Because it's hard enough to think about a lot of think media podcast listeners will jump in and be like, okay, I want to start a channel. I'm in similar boat. I've got a lot going on. Maybe I got a full time job or I'm a full time business owner. Where are the extra hours to actually create content? But then you add on top of that the extra hours to create a course or to create a community and to package that course. When did you do that in the timeline of this? Was it after the seven months that you're in? You already have a thousand subs? Like, at what point did you feel like it was time to add on, let alone consistent content to building out more of a business around what you were doing while all of this is a side hustle?
- [11:46]
Nathan S. Swine
Oh man, I love this question. Okay, so full confession, right? Like I would love to say that I knew exactly what I was doing and I totally estimated correctly how much it would be to do a course and make YouTube videos and just be a functional human being and somewhat of a good husband, right? Wrong. Totally underestimated how much all that would be. So initially it's clunky, right? Like this, like the beginning of a whole bunch of things. It's just clunky and messy and you're figuring it out and. And for me, that looked really bad. Like my up. I couldn't. I would try to do the 10 hour a week thing right, with my videos. But then you're trying to make a course for the first time and you're like trying to figure out it's the whole pre stuff, right, Sean, like what do you. Where do you even put this course? And like how does it even exist, right? And just to be clear, not trying to like make excuses or anything, but this was like before ChatGPT was like a crazy thing, right? So like you're the one who's writing all the copy under all the modules and the emails and like all that stuff. And. And so initially I was like, okay, I had a kind of like a lucky strike happen. And I had a video that I published around this whole time period where I'm like, okay, I think I could make a course. And it just kind of went viral for me, as we would say. And the cool thing about following the system and like I was following the think media stuff is this whole thing about ranking videos, which I know that we talk a lot about here on the podcast. And this whole ranking thing is what enabled me to buy back some of my side hustle time so that I could allocate that towards creating courses, creating products, thinking about how I would do a coaching offer. Right? So what I'm trying to say is I had that video just kind of pop off. And because it ranked, meaning it would show up in search results if people were looking for a specific way to do something in a music creation software, my video just kept popping up and it kept getting views and views and views around the clock. So I thought, okay, if I'm getting views around the clock from this one video, maybe I could like go to every other week or every few weeks I could publish a video, try to do it again, try to do like the next part. Okay, if I could rank for another topic. Okay, sweet. Then that could, that video could buy me views in conjunction. The compounding effect of that first video that it did. So maybe you can see where my like, my mentality is going. It was like, okay, if I just rank videos and then use those, since those views, those videos are going to be getting views around the clock. Now I'm cool burning a week to just focus on core stuff, right? Because if I got side hustle time, I got side hustle time. I think it's like choosing reality. I can't wave a magic wand. And no amount of systems right can I think fully give you everything you desire. There's just only 24 hours a day. So I think you got to come to terms with trade offs as a creator and maybe as a creative entrepreneur where you're like, you want to make a course or offer something, you can't have it all. You just as much as you think you can. So you gotta make trade offs. And so for me, that was my trade off. I'm gonna try to rank videos so I can get views around the clock and that'll buy me back time to make this course.
- [14:36]
Sean Cannell
So I wanna unpack a couple of things. That is a great tip. And one of my mentors did say that, they said sometimes you gotta slow down to speed up. We could get on the content Creation, hamster wheel where we, we needed, we wanna do the extra thing, write a book, write it, make a course. And yet also say super consistent. Maybe you need to take a month or two off or even six months. However, red alert. That's why I think media, we say, but if you're gonna do that, rather than just stop and lose momentum. Rank videos. So you're still getting views, your channel's still growing while you work on that next piece, which is the path you took. I'm still curious, were you generally disciplined though with this idea that you worked 40 hours and you spent 10 on your side hustle. And maybe that 10 was disorganized, but that's how much you spent. Or maybe it was devoted to the course because you had a ranked video. Or maybe it was devoted to the next video, but roughly it was always 10. Or was there times where you were really like it was 20, it was 25. There was marriage stress. Like it would. You were really grinding certain weeks a hundred percent.
- [15:37]
Nathan S. Swine
Yeah, absolutely. I think when I was going, getting first started on this whole YouTube thing, you know, like fellow listener, if you're out there, I'm sure you've, you know, You've watched your 11th video of someone talking about how they got to where they're getting to. I did the same thing and I remember one creator that I watched, I can't remember his name right now, but he said that he thinks one of the biggest myths about starting something on the side is this idea of balance. He actually said, I don't think you can be balanced if you're so bold. Right. If you're listening, you're a rebel, let's go. Like if you're so bold to demand a different sort of life, a different sort of week and a rhythm for your day that basically like involves your dream, you know, like doing what you love for a living. That's a pretty bold ask and I love it. I'm all for the ask. But you have to understand what you're asking isn't easy and what you're asking for is going to require sacrifice. And so I really took that to heart, Sean. Like I was like, okay, I'm not going to try to buy into this myth that everything's just going to be perfect and that I can just plot along, you know, four hour workweek, like, hey, mad respect for Tim Ferriss and everything. I just think, man, there's a startup season and you're going to have to give up to go up, as John Maxwell would say. And so like for, for us, for. It took a conversation with my wife. Oh my goodness. The biggest thing I could say, you got someone else in your family, someone else in your household. I don't know, even a roommate or something, it's worth communicating. So I kind of like, I'm nerdy and so like I said, it was financial advisor and stuff. So I kind of like put up this whole business plan and shared it with my wife, you know, and bless her heart, she's so supportive. She has no idea what she's looking at. I'm like, babe, okay, if I could just anyone else get this, Like, I get these subscribers and then if I have X subscribers coming every month that sign up for my lead magnet and then I, you know, I'm just speaking gibberish to her, right? But she saw a plan and I think more importantly, she saw like that I was serious about it, even if she didn't quite understand it. And so because of that, communicating with my spouse, communicating with people who are in the home, it gave me the opportunity to burn the 20 hours in a week, maybe sometimes it was 30. To be completely honest, for four years, half of a Saturday in our home was just Nathan side Hustle day. It just, it was an agreement that we came to. It was part of the thing. So every half day I'm up early on Saturday and putting in like maybe six hours or something on the side hustle thing. So especially when the course stuff started happening and it's all just so new. You're just trying to figure it out. And yeah, it was easy. Easy going to like 10, 20, 30 hours in a week.
- [18:04]
Sean Cannell
So many nuggets, a couple takeaways. Share a plan with your partner. That's really powerful to think about and it doesn't have to be some sophisticated business plan and they may not understand it. The fact you even have a plan. And I also like, half of Saturday is side hustle day. When is side hustle day? If you're listening to this, it might be a different day, but there's not balance at the start. These are some really powerful insights. Now I do want to mention, because we're talking about ranking videos, we're not going to go super deep in this episode to it. But if you're listening to this and that's a new concept. We are obsessed with ranking videos at Think Media. If you've never learned about our seven step system to do so, you actually can get access to a free class. We'll break everything down and you could go to thinkmasterclass. Com we'll link that up in the show notes. You can watch this class on demand. It's a free YouTube strategy class, and we're going to show you the one strategy that's generating over 122,000 views a day across our channels and also how we're earning over a hundred thousand dollars per month without relying on YouTube ads. So the cool thing about this class is whether you're just starting out or you're trying to get momentum, it's going to teach you how to make videos like Nathan's talking about that are getting views for weeks, months, and years to come, not only so your channel grows, but also so that maybe you could build that other piece of your business plan out, whether that's a course, coaching, a book, or something else. So don't put this off. It's free. It's on demand. As soon as you're done with this conversation, this podcast episode, head to thinkmasterclass.com and you can stream that free YouTube strategy class today. So, Nathan, I want to go back and unpack this a little bit because there was a couple things you were also balancing to get clear. Some. Some weeks, it's 10 or 20 or 30 hours. YouTube videos, course content. I'm curious how much time you were devoting to learning. You are a video Reikit Academy student, our main course. You joined the program, but I'm sure you were also. You're watching YouTube videos, you're listening to podcasts, you're trying to read books. You're just a voracious learner like everyone that's listening to this is right now. And so how did you break up that rhythm of learn? Do implement, Figure out how to package a course, a whole nother skill. You're like, man, I have another skill I gotta learn. How do you do that? What was kind of your learning rhythm?
- [20:25]
Nathan S. Swine
Oh, I love this question. This is such a good question that we're still answering with our students to this day. How do you do the whole learning the stuff and then doing the stuff, and how do you balance those for me? Again, a lot of it is just ugly at first, but you figure it out over time. I made use of my commute and I know this, this isn't necessarily a new idea here. You know, in the Think Podcast, like the idea of your, you know, YouTube education happens in the car. And maybe that's like the audio version of a course module or it's a. It's a podcast episode or it's saving a video for later for later that you just have the audio going. I made use of that time. I really did. And so for me it was like 30 minutes there, 30 minutes home. Sometimes it was traffic, it was longer and I was like, hey, cool. And so I just kind of adopted that mindset of like, I know what I'm doing anytime I'm in the car. And to be honest, this might sound kind of crazy. That habit just spilled over and it was kind of like anytime I was in the car, it just became a habit. I was like, if I'm sitting in the car and I should be clear, if I'm by myself, could you imagine cruising down the highway? My wife is like, do you know, talk about CTR and like, whatever. No, no, no. It's like if it's myself, right? Even if I'm running an errand, it's going to take 10 minutes to the grocery store. I'm going to, I'm going to chug away someone. John Acuff, I think you're familiar with Sean, his awesome book called Start. And I read that at the beginning of my YouTube journey. And he has this phrase that just helped me. Anyone else likes a crazy perfectionist, like, some beats none. Some beats none. And that is just, that's like an anchoring phrase for me. And so I thought, hey, cool, I got 10 minutes. Some beats none. Okay. I did a third of a podcast, right? I would have been the kind of person who's like, oh, okay, it's a 30 minute module, 8 minute drive to the grocery store. I'll just save it for tomorrow. I'm like, no, no, no, like, let's get ahead, like some beats not. I could learn something. And so I think just having that, that mindset of how can you hack into your day? Is there something you're already doing? You know, I didn't have a lawn at the time, but like, I know people who get the like, sound isolating headphones so they can hear the podcast or whatever and they're like listening. How can you hack an activity that you're doing in your day to day and kind of throw in some learning in there? So that was kind of the balance for me. I was like, anytime in the car, I'm learning. And then that kind of meant anytime at my desk I'm executing. So I kind of had that distinction there. Not that I learned something at my desk or anything, but I kind of like tried to give myself boundaries and give myself environments to where I knew, okay, I got limited time. So when I sit down at this desk, I just started to get so conditioned into this whole like, this is where I create, you know, that's like a cool identity thing. Like, oh man, I'm a creator right here, right? And so I even had like a song that I would play. Like I had a walkout song, you know, that I'd put on before I film content. All the nerdy stuff. It's fun, have fun with it. Right? But that was kind of what I did. I had different zones for learning, different zones for creating. And I tried my darndest to just respect that.
- [23:11]
Sean Cannell
So once you hit was $30,000 an annual milestone you reached?
- [23:18]
Nathan S. Swine
Yes, it was.
- [23:20]
Sean Cannell
Break that down as approximate as you can remember of like what those income streams were. You could say percentage or you could say, you know, 5K was ad revenue by the end of the year or whatever you think it was.
- [23:31]
Nathan S. Swine
Yeah, sure. Okay, let's. I'll. I'll try to go amounts here. So I would say ad revenue is the lowest by far. Maybe that was like five grand. We'll call it 5K for ad revenue. I would say the biggest portion of maybe that's like 10 to 15k is coaching. Like that was like one on one consulting with artists. I called it artist development. So aspiring songwriters, I would just hop on with them, help them inside of their sessions, help them finish and produce their songs. So that was the heaviest hitter because that's like a lot that I'm doing and offering. And that was the remaining amount would have been. It would have fluctuated year to year, but it was probably core sales mixed with a. Some sort of affiliate opportunity. So there are several opportunities that I had. This is kind of cool. Like I think I just crossed a thousand subscribers. I don't even think I had 2,000 subscribers yet. But I did have those ranked videos. Key point, right? Because I had those ranked videos. I got eyeballs from people who probably otherwise would have never heard of me before. What I'm saying is production companies approached me and said, hey, you're like making these videos on YouTube, talking about how to use this music production software. Looks like it's doing pretty well. Lots of comments, the views, right. And they would offer, they'd be like, hey, could you make a course, a mini course for our company? You know. So it was kind of thing where like they would pay me, me, you know, a kind of like a buyout fees was an upfront chunk, right? And that could be like three or five grand or something at the time. And then I was cut into royalties, you know, like 50% of the royalties. If Anytime anyone bought that course, even though it was nested with them in their company was kind of cool. I didn't have to worry about hosting it. They had it all on them. Anytime someone bought, there'd be like a royalty that would get from that. So I say that that last 10 ish grand there in the pie was, was from those kind of opportunities.
- [25:15]
Sean Cannell
So then, okay, so 5K ad revenue, 10 to 15K coaching course was maybe another 10 to 15K.
- [25:22]
Nathan S. Swine
Yeah. In, in, in between with those kind of, I, I call it courses. Sometimes it's me making it and hosting it. Sometimes it was me doing it for another company.
- [25:29]
Sean Cannell
Interesting. Kind of that. That is, by the way, that's a huge epiphany that I think probably a lot of people listening to this hadn't even thought about. There's so many ways to make money in the creator economy. And if I'm understanding right, what you're saying is you broke down a software company, reached out to you, seeing that you were a teacher, they said, can you actually just be like, hire talent for us to do a tutorial on our software for a flat fee of 3 to 5k as well as royalties? And this was not content that lived on your YouTube channel. This was content that they were hiring you for that they hosted in their own platform or their own channel.
- [26:06]
Nathan S. Swine
That's exactly it. Yeah, it was absolutely awesome. And I think that is a really cool thing to just say out loud. You know, again, I was, I don't, I really don't think I was past 2,000 subscribers when those kind of opportunities came knocking. And it's just, it was just a combination of, okay, maybe there's a little bit of an edge that I had, but I would encourage you, as you're listening, what is your edge and your niche? Right. Which I'm sure we could get into. But like a little bit of an edge that I had. I was actually a songwriter. There's a lot of credibility to me and in my, in my videos. So if, if I can say it, a humble brag, Sean, of like, the music that I was doing on my channel was kind of good. Like, it was above average. Like, it sounded like a song. Right. And so that kind of mixed with, oh, I'm already like looking the part to this company. Like you. I just think you just have no idea. We don't have any idea what's on the other side of pressing, publish and pressing record and just letting time go by. You Rank videos, I think we underestimate. Okay, yeah, people could be Searching for this. Like, other musicians could be searching, but man, like, I don't know, heads of marketing could be searching and like heads of content could be searching. And there's other kinds of eyes that could open up opportunities that are again, because of YouTube, but not necessarily on the platform.
- [27:15]
Sean Cannell
That is a great. That is a great point. Like, it's like the Oprah effector. You know, everyone's only one or two relationships for maybe somebody you want to meet. And your YouTube channel could be a relationship to a job or a collaboration or a partnership or, you know, there is a stat of even Fortune 500 executives watch YouTube. And so what are they watching? And what would it mean to get in front of them thinking through your strategy? That's inspiring. If we were to talk about affiliates, it sounds like affiliates kind of in isolation was never huge. But what were some of the things you did affiliates for? Like Logic? Were you an affiliate for Logic, the software? Or did you ever do like studio monitors or anything like that?
- [27:53]
Nathan S. Swine
Oh, so I so wish I tried. I tried knocking on those doors, but I don't think Logic, at some point they closed up their affiliate stuff. That would have been epic. But yeah, I kind of did. Affiliates were extremely small. It was like maybe I'd list some gear that I used. One of the guides that I would give away is like a freebie or a lead magnet was kind of a gear guide for the home musician. And so I'd have links to some speakers, to some microphones and stuff that were some affiliate links there. But otherwise the, I guess the. I guess you'd call it an affiliate, right? Like those courses I did for other people I would promote. And so I'd be like, hey, go check out this course. Buy so and so company happens to be yours truly teaching it, you know, but if they bought it, I would get a cut of it. So.
- [28:35]
Sean Cannell
Got it. So the idea, this is very insightful. Speaks to the different way. It just makes me think Goldman Sachs talking about the creator economy. Total addressable market doubling in the next couple of years from a $250 billion industry to a half a trillion dollar industry. I love this too, because we're talking about nano and micro influencers here, meaning your channel grew to 8,000 subscribers. And so this makes me think about a massive opportunity right now for these smaller channels. By definition, a nano influencer is 1,000 to 10,000 subscribers. A micro influencer is 10,000 to 100,000, and then a macro influencer is a hundred thousand to a million. To think about the numbers, $30,000 in a year to be at 8,000 subs or less. Is this nano influencer niche, authentic, relatable, hyper niched. And I think the modern term for you kind of making a mini course for another software company is like UGC creators, user gener, content tutorials, trainings. So really the truth, is anybody listening to this? It's perhaps your approach, it's perhaps your strategy, it's how you position yourself, it's all of those details. But you do not need a big audience to make significant money. I want to dive into part of your story and that was finding your first super fan with under 100 views. First, can you define what is a super fan and tell us this story?
- [30:06]
Nathan S. Swine
This is so fun. I hope this encourages you. If you're listening. So, yeah, superfan, I would probably define that as someone who would. Maybe you could just define it as bluntly as someone who would pay you, like no matter what you did is buy anything, right? But I guess on YouTube at this point, I wasn't quite monetized yet. A superfan would have been someone who loved my content. How about that? They would, they watch every video. They wouldn't miss an upload. Really appreciated what I was doing. So much so they had. They actually hit subscribe, they actually hit the notification bell. That's probably a Super fan on YouTube, right? And yeah, this, I was, you know, when I first started, like a lot of people, you know, you just get into the tens of views if that goodness, it was a while before I even saw my first hundred. And yeah, 20 views here, 30 views here. I had this, this dude that was just showing up on like every video and it wasn't a family member. It wasn't like someone I texted about my channel. It was genuinely at the 20 view count level. This is what I love about YouTube. Oh my goodness. At the 20 view count level. This homie found me from who knows where, right? Like, YouTube connected us and bridged that gap. And he just started watching every single video that I put out and would comment on every single video. And it was this incredible relationship of like, I almost couldn't wait until, you know, I could upload because I wanted to see what he would say. And that's kind of honestly what gave me the motivation to keep going. Sean, that's like one of the things because it's disheartening, you know, like when you're getting the tens of views, the 20 views, maybe it's exciting because you're like, wow. But a lot of us have been sold this really, like, this lie that's like, you're not successful on YouTube or successful in the content game unless your stuff is getting hundreds of thousands of views. You don't have a silver play button. Why should I listen to you? Right? This kind of, like, thing that we can fall into and it's just not true. Because at the 20 view count level, I had this guy that I was impacting, right? And that just. Man, that. That lit me up so much that I was like, okay, if I could get one super fan, I could get two. It's the same process. Like, what. What would I have to. If I just keep doing what I'm doing, Logic is right. Try to get a little bit better. 1% better. Every upload I get another super fan and then another. If I get 2, I can get 10, I get 10, I can get 100. And that sort of like, really inspired me to just keep going and keep trying to impact just one person at a time, which is easier said than done. There's a lot that goes into making YouTube videos, but I think if you could try to simplify things. Clear the deck and when you sit down in front of the camera, you're like, okay, one person, One person in my niche who needs to hear this right now. Who needs this help today. It was incredibly helpful.
- [32:32]
Sean Cannell
So when this person showed up at the 20 view level, what were you intentional to do? Anything to connect with them. Were you mainly just replying back to each of their comments? Anything that you did to go deeper?
- [32:43]
Nathan S. Swine
Yeah, absolutely. Replying for sure. My goodness. I think I totally side with Gary Vee, who, you know, is like, if you're getting 20 views and you have two comments and you're not replying to them, like, what are you doing? Right, like, good luck. So, yeah, I really took like that to heart and would, like, reply to anything and everything that I got. Even if it was kind of negative or even if it was mean, if there was any kind of just like, what I would classify as, like, pure evil or something out there. Yeah, I'm going to block it on any of that around. But even if it was someone who disagreed, I'm going to enter in, try to show them some love, try to offer a different perspective. Or even if it was just, hey, thanks for spending your time. Sorry it wasn't your cup of tea, you know. So, yeah, I would reply and. And actually keep the conversation going. So, like, kind of a cool thing, right? There's these engagement. Engagement stuff on YouTube's a big deal, you know, hitting like hitting subscribe, commenting as well. And so, yeah, I would reply to just like, be a good person, try to be a good creator. But also if I reply now, there's two comments on a video that just had one from him, right? And then maybe he would reply back and then I would reply back. And because he's a super fan, we'd have a long conversation. So maybe one video, you know, would go from having a comment and maybe have like eight or something, right? Because there's a lot of back and forth going on. So I don't know how much weight is really there, you know, compared to like a title, thumbnail hook or whatever. But I still think that kind of counted for something of like, wow, there's a lot of engagement going on in this video, even if it was kind of from one person.
- [34:05]
Sean Cannell
Yeah, it's really powerful. And I've heard YouTube employees say that really what the YouTube algorithm is, is word of mouth on steroids. And so if you actually crunch the numbers, if you were to get only one super fan per week, somebody, and by definition somebody who's bought into your content, they love every video, they comment on every video. But here's the important metric. They actually watch the video, meaning they vote with their time. They actually consume the minutes of the video. The way the algorithm is going to recommend content is yes, a little bit of likes, a little bit of comments, but it's actually consumption. And what then the YouTube algorithm does is it recommends your videos to people like the people that are consuming your videos right now. So in one sense, it's not so much that people share your video, although that could be powerful, or they go tell a friend, although that could be powerful as well. It's actually just that they consume your content and engage with it, and then the algorithm starts to find more people like them. Well, the math on that is if you only found one a week, well, in your first 52 weeks of YouTube, your first year, you'd have 52 superfans, but if they multiplied, it would only take six years to get to 1,092 superfans. Now, that might not sound like a lot, but, and I'm not saying subscribers, you may have grown to 8,000 subscribers, you might have grown to 18,000. But we're talking about superfans. I like the way you said it. Somebody who will buy something from you. And Kevin Kelly's famous article is that if somebody spent a hundred dollars with you a year and you had a thousand superfans, it's a six figure business. And the reason I want to break this math down here is for listeners is of course there's stories of people who did it in six months or 18 months later they did a million dollars. But there's those unicorn stories. I like to encourage listeners, where could you be in 3, 4, 5, 6 years? Building up a fan base, a super fan base of people who love you and would refer you and are consuming your content and are engaged with you. That's the real viability of these creator economy businesses. Let's talk a little bit about your system because once you dialed this thing in, I know some weeks you were hustling 20 hours, 30 hours, but eventually got it to 10 hours a week. What did you learn about workflows, templates, content batching? You already mentioned get in your office, put you in a zone, you had your walkout song. I need to know what the walkout song was to get you in the mindset of filming. But like, what are some of those routines that helped you dial in your process of staying consistent in all this?
- [36:40]
Nathan S. Swine
This is awesome and I'll definitely share that with you. It was this. You actually might like it if this helps viewers find out more about Sean. It was just like Russian hip hop underground. Like I don't even know what they're saying, but it was just like you couldn't help but get ready, you know what I'm saying? So yeah, so that's one thing. But yeah, when it comes system. The thing that helped me was this. And this is again like just being real through going through think media stuff. Something that I think is different about the think media approach is there's just a lot of emphasis on reverse engineering. Like there's a lot of emphasis on before you press record, maybe. Here's some things to think about, here's some things to dial in, here's some things to get clear on. Not that other people don't talk about that, but there's the way that we approach it is like, no, no, no, no. If you get this beginning part right, so to speak, you can save yourself a lot of time later. And so what this means is before I press record, which is an all important thing, right? Like you do need to press record, but if you could spend some time up front really doing some research, really thinking through, hey, this next video idea that I have, here's a good question, is it even worth making? Sometimes we just like take our ideas as if they're just pure gold and we're just like, oh yeah, this is going to crush, right? And we don't even do any like, you know, the nerdy term market research or anything. Or even if that's just literally search on YouTube. Has anyone else even made anything like this? If they have, is there even views on the videos? Right? And so you have a whole bunch of time up front where you can get a lot of things right. So for me, that's where I learned to spend my time. So initially when I was creating content, and we can go into this deeper if we want to, but initially I would live stream to create my content. I wouldn't live stream for the live people that could be there. I would as. As think media calls it. I would go live for the replay. Right? I would go live for the evergreen value. That just means, hey, if I hit the live button, I am the first words out of my mouth are not hey, everyone. You know, let me know where you're tuning it. It's no, it's like I'm saying, so you ever. You're having trouble with that microphone you just bought. It's like, I'm just, I'm going right into my script that I made. But the beauty of it being live wasn't even an algorithm hack for me. It was purely, oh, if I go live and once I hit the end button, I'm done. I just edited in real time effectively. Right. Like that saves me so much. So I would spend my time up front in these 10 hours thinking about, okay, what's my idea? What is the good title? Do some keyword research? What's the thumbnail? And I would get all that set up before I would go live and create my content. So the live thing really helped me. And I gotta be honest this. I think a lot of people could go live. And I think it's helpful. It's actually, it's. It's a difficult art form. Like, I know that that's kind of thrown around like, hey, I'll go live and you can whatever. And yeah, like, that's cool. But it's. There's a lot at stake there actually. Right. Editing can actually serve a lot of new creators. If you're not really used to teaching, if you're not even really used to the camera yet, it can be pretty daunting to just hit, even if it's to nobody you hit go live and you just on camera, you know, here we go. Whatever I say. And so I did have a little bit of an edge there. Just because I had taught things before. I really knew my craft. And I spent a lot of time like man, if I went live for 30 minutes at most for a Logic Pro tutorial, I mean what I would have spent like eight something plus hours, you know, like on the research, what the idea is, what the title is, scripting everything out, getting my hook right and then maybe a last hour or something after I went live to just make sure the description or whatever has the appropriate links. But that was a lot of prep to make those 30 minutes worth it. So that was a way that I really, I significantly cut down my YouTube creation time was kind of by eliminating the whole need to do a lot of editing. But I got to just be clear, that's not a strategy for everyone. And I think editing absolutely has its place.
- [40:32]
Sean Cannell
Can you speak also a little bit to like maybe energy management and mindset management? One of the things that you mentioned in our survey was that your one of your biggest battles was even imposter syndrome or doubt. And I know that sometimes for listeners they could feel like okay, I've listened to the Think Media podcast, I've thought about the tips. Like I, I even want to do this stuff but I'm dealing with fatigue some which is very real and physical and I'm also dealing with fatigue or just the resistance which is kind of emotional. Like I'm trying to just like press record but oh man, is it going to be worth it or, or I got all this self doubt or just you know and I know personally on any day when I have a shoot day I'm going to film, there's something to film, there's something on the calendar. I will take a shower even though smell would not be conveyed in video. But I get ready because and it by the way it helps my mindse whenever I'm in the shower I'm in like a doom loop of self doubt. I'm like I don't want to film today. I don't know, my back hurts. It always comes up. That's, that's to this day after doing it that's just personal is that it's all like I don't feel quite ready yet. Man, I wish I was more rested. I wish and I'm, I feel so blessed, you know. Now this is a full time business for me and so even more so when I'm waiting tables at Red Robin or dealing with stuff it's hard to get. So I'm just kind of curious like if you take yourself back to work all Saturday or to film after work and the practical side but also the emotional side, like how'd you do that man?
- [42:13]
Nathan S. Swine
That's so good. I was laughing because I just really get it. It can be the same way. I want to try to just be really careful here because I know that this is a good question and it's a thing that a lot of people answer. And I got to be honest, I'm a little disconnected from what it was exactly like right in the trenches of several years ago. So I want to try to honor that. And if you're listening and you're right there, here's what I would say. This may be counterintuitive advice. It's okay to like, take time. Here's what I would tell myself. You get one. I don't know who I heard that from. Maybe it was like a John Deloney thing or something. It was like, you get one. And what that meant was, okay, I don't really feel like filming today. If that was a this week thing, I let myself not do it. I know this is so against the, like, hustle culture. Just get it, get after it, whatever. Jocko willink, like, let's go. Right? There's a place for that, but there's also just a place for like, you're human. And if you're trying to do this on the side, I think you need to give yourself a lot more grace than our world would tell you where. It's like you are holding down a full time job. Way to freaking go. You're married. Oh, my goodness. You have kids as well. What the. There's so much on your plate, man. No wonder you don't feel like doing something right now because life has taken its toll this week, right? So I would just give myself one. And I wasn't always really good at that. I had a lot of like, mentorship around that to be like. And think media too. I just love the. Okay, so you missed your upload this week. What, did you die like, you know, did your YouTube channel just blow up? No, none of that happens, right? And so I think the best thing I could say to someone who's doing this on the side is to probably let yourself have one. That's all good. Now that's one tone. The flip of it is going to be the folks who I've been here to where we just loop on that self talk and we give ourselves more than one. We give ourselves like weeks, right? And there could be a season. You got to do that. But overall, man, you got to respect yourself enough. I got to say, actually, you got to respect this dream enough. If this thing really means a lot to you, you Want to do something with this YouTube thing again? Going back to what we said before, there's no free lunch. Like there's going to be trade offs and sometimes that's going to be, man, this is, this was a sweat equity day. You know, Like I remember feeling those, like I don't want to film, but I know that I have to do it. And it's kind of, you can see how this all starts to connect. The biggest thing that I still tell like fellow creators today, when you don't feel like creating, you gotta start like saving this box. It's virtual on my computer, but it was a folder where I would take screenshots of any comments that I got, any emails that I got. Cause that's the way my YouTube stuff was set up. Anything where it just clearly, because I showed up that day because I pressed record and publish and published and that people could watch a video of mine, it helped them, it changed them. It, whatever. And I got to tell you, if you're a human with a pulse and you're like an impact mission driven fellow creator here, it only takes reading a few of those for you to be like, okay, all right, let's do this. We got this right? Because as you're reminded, oh this in that moment, it's bigger than you and I sound a little cheesy, a little out there, a Hallmark cardish, but I love some good cheese and I like Hallmark card shout outs. So I'm like, hey, I read a few of those. I'm ready to go. Because I realize I'm not showing up just for me or even for my family or for our future dreams. Maybe in this moment, the way I can get on the camera is to remember this is for someone who I haven't even met yet.
- [45:29]
Sean Cannell
You just talk to everybody. So everybody listening to this is in one of two groups. Group number one, they are so performance driven. Yet there is such a thing as like, your tank is empty. It makes sense. It should be empty. We, we are, we are not robots. And so it's empty at the end of the day, yet you feel this guilt and pressure. I just heard Dan Martell say also feelings are real in YouTube. Meaning like the emotional energy you show up is real. So you think you're going to convey great world class rested emotional energy in a video when the whole day is just beat you up and you have really nothing left to give in your tanks. I know for some of us again you can, you can crack a, you know, energy drink or something, but ultimately we can sometimes Tell. We're like, is that person all right? Like, they're just. And. And so this is tough. But. But I love what you're saying. Like, give yourself one. Yes, that was the day you were gonna film. And yes, that Saturday was your side hustle Saturday. But maybe that was the one side hustle Saturday that you should rest instead.
- [46:37]
Nathan S. Swine
Yeah.
- [46:37]
Sean Cannell
And some people listening to this need to hear that the other side is those that it's been too long and mood. Your moods and your feelings continue to dictate your results. And instead, you have to put your feelings aside and stick to the plan and have an actual plan where you just press record anyways. And I have learned this. It's kind of true about productivity. I will avoid tasks. I'll avoid. I'm working on a VRA outline of the new version we're doing, and it's very. It's a big project, so it's, like, easy for me to be like, well, scrolling sounds fun. Or just even checking my email or just checking in Slack because I'm. I'm avoiding the big, hard thing and even maybe other things that are productive, but, like, they're not the main thing I need to tackle. Brian Tracy calls it eat the frog. In the famous productivity book. Like, you do the hardest thing, the frog would be like, that course outline as opposed to, like, I'm just going to chip away at some. I need to send the team some encouraging messages. Yeah, productive and very justifiable, but avoiding the frog for sure. So ultimately, what's the plan in sticking to the plan and what we've learned about productivity, though, is a lot of times if you just do it, you. The momentum comes after. But getting started is so tough. Like, so it's like, once, okay, I'm just gonna film. Forget your mood, forget your filming. Like, go through the motions, fake it until you press record, and then your emotions start to follow. Maybe that first 10 minutes is more throwaway because you're just forcing it, but now, okay, at least you. You did it. You push past that resistance. So everybody listening to this, either give yourself one and you need a break, you need a nap, you have our permission at the big media podcast. Or you need to just suck it up. Buttercup. It's time to go film. Like, you've been listening to too much YouTube. You've been listening to too much stuff. It's time to. To put your moods and feelings aside and stick to the plan and go press record. All right, a couple more things as we land the plane here. I do want you to get a little technical. You were in music production. Not everyone's in the music production niche, but you approached your videos like a collaborative session. Fun, creative, not just technical. And let's just face the reality when as listeners are listening to this, YouTube has changed. It's a competitive space, you know, today, and we'll come back to this later, but you're one of our think media certified YouTube strategists and YouTube coaches. So you get to work with all kinds of creators that sign up for our video raked academy, elite and accelerator programs. So you see real time, what the challenges are, what's not working anymore, what is working, how people are carving a path to get ahead. But what creators have to face is that there is just more competition than ever before. There's a ton of opportunity, but there's more competition. And I like that. AI is here, for example. So even just the commoditization of information, anyone can pull information and put together a tutorial. This stood out to me with you saying you had an energy and an approach and it's like there was a clearly, you know, you got the 30k a year, you developed some super fans. Things were, you're crushing it. That's not by accident. So can you expand on this of maybe people like, I don't know, other things you're thinking about finding your vibe, finding your uniqueness, finding your brand. The intentionality to approach videos in a certain way, to not just be technical in a technical niche, is something any listener can learn from to maybe carve out how they could be different with their content going forward.
- [50:09]
Nathan S. Swine
Oh, man, I love this. Yeah, this is a consistent conversation. The way I've been phrasing it lately, Sean, even with creators that we're working with is like, we gotta find your Trojan horse, right? Like, we gotta find the thing that's gonna sneak you into the YouTube algorithm. And like sneak is kind of just like it's not actually happening, but just basically that's this. It's the thing that's like, oh, this separates you, thus gives you a distinct advantage over the other people in your niche doing the same thing. So that just applies whether or not you're in the education space teaching something technical or it's more entertainment vlog style based. The fact is you being you is the biggest asset you have. Oh my goodness. And if you don't click out yet, because me a few years ago would have clicked out after I heard someone like me just say that, like, you being you is the only you you ever need, you know, Like, I get it, it's cheesy. But, like, it's called YouTube, and I think there's, like, there's a reality check here in 2025. The style of content that we're seeing, like, how do you stick out about. Yeah, it is. It's. Competition is fierce. Lots of stuff. AI. The way that you differentiate yourself is trying to find out what makes you you. So maybe the best way to illustrate that. Yeah. Is, like, how this worked for me. So music production space, typically, okay, so there's this, like, piece of software called Logic Pro X. It's kind of like Photoshop, but for musicians. It's the thing that we use to make songs. Right. So when you. When you're learning about this piece of software, it is a piece of software. And no disrespect, but I noticed in my research that a lot of people doing tutorials on this piece of software really knew the software weren't really the best teacher or even musician, if I may be so bold. Right. What I'm listening to as they're demonstrating how to use the software. Just act hard. Yeah, it's hard. Love you, bro. You just can't sing. It's okay, right? Like, it's that kind of thing. And so I was one thing. I was like, okay, well, like, I just. I know a strength. I have, like, written songs for, like, a decade and a half up to that point. Okay. I can make good music so that when I'm teaching people, they're at least listening to something that's like, it's good, it's mixed, it sounds nice, right? Keep people on the video longer. That was one thing. The second thing was while you can know the ins and outs of a piece of software or a specific niche, specific topic, the way that you communicate it is everything on YouTube. Because I do think there's an audience for just about everybody. You can come at it more analytical and more technical, and you're probably going to attract the people who appreciate that stance. But I was going after artists, right? Like, in my niche, I'm going after the people who have dreams of, like, putting their stuff on Spotify. And I was like, ooh. A differentiating factor is if I could show up as the fellow musician, right? Not a teacher in a classroom. Because I'm like, this is music, y' all. This should be fun. It should be. We should be jamming out. Why are we, like, in a classroom tucked up, and the guy's got a shirt and the tie on? It's like. It's just not the vibe. I was like, no one else is, like, trying to have fun with this whole music thing, because, by the way, just like, YouTube, that should be fun. And I was like, that's what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna, like, be me. I'm gonna be the Nathan that I always was in the sessions that I was in. I was the guy that would, like, I don't know, keep the mood up and, like, have the ideas and keep everyone moving. And so the biggest differentiator for me is at the beginning of my journey. When I was doing the live streams, I showed up and I definitely taught and I taught very technical, and I kind of dressed a certain way. I really wasn't Nathan. I wasn't Nathan the songwriter. I was Nathan the YouTube music educator, which really wasn't, like, who I really was. And so those videos did okay. Maybe the most I got was, like, hundreds of views, which was cool at the time, but the second that I pivoted and I shifted and after doing this research is when I figured this out. I was like, okay, I gotta just take a shot at being me. I took off the nice. You know, the nice clothes and swapped it for, like, my session clothes. I had a backwards hat on. The hair wasn't all nice. And I just literally talked to the camera like I was with one of my bros making a hit. Like, that's literally how I went after it. And that. I think there's so many things in there, the relatability. All of a sudden, I'm myself. The camera really picks that up. And I think that that is. That's the unique advantage for me was, like, when I decided to lean into who I really am, my audience found me. Sean, I remember this from years ago. You've always said, your vibe attracts your tribe. And that's what went on there is. Because I actually was my vibe, you know, And I think people appreciated that. And to no surprise, really, the comments were like, wow, you know, this was really easy to watch. Or I love the energy here. Like, this is so fun, right? Or the favorite meaningful comments, which were like. Like, this makes me want to make music again. What the. Right. How could I not read that and be ready to make another video? So, like, that's kind of the. The distinction that happened for me.
- [54:49]
Sean Cannell
There's so many nuggets in there. And I think that this might be one of the most powerful parts of our conversation, because one, I think the under talked about strategy on YouTube. You said communicating, but I want to say connecting.
- [55:04]
Nathan S. Swine
Ooh, yes.
- [55:05]
Sean Cannell
Like whether you make a connection with the viewer. The tone of your video started to change. The relatability of your video started to change. And you weren't being inauthentic, but you were just being kind of what you thought you needed to be. I'm sure you dressed nice at certain times. We button up to go do something professional. But when you just stepped into dressing like you normally would, talking like you would with the homies and with your friends, you clicked into the right tone. It's almost like you got into alignment. And it actually reminds me, I think there's three takeaways that people can have. There's a book from John Maxwell called Everybody Communicates, But Few Connect. In this year on YouTube, everybody's making videos, but lots of videos are not connecting. Like, okay, there's the information. There's just something about it. Like, I mean, I could pull some nuggets out of that, but it's kind of a grind watching it. It's kind of tone pace, finding your vibe. And so these takeaways. Connection always trumps communication. People don't remember what you said. They remember how you made them feel. That's a hard thing to teach, but the feel of your video is. Is a big deal. And it feels. Dress makes you feel a certain way. Vibe makes you feel a certain way. If you feel buttoned up or it feels like someone's just reading off of AI versus, like, really connecting. Okay, feel matters. So connection. Connection is a skill, not a trait. Finding common ground, Keeping communication simple, capturing people's interest, inspiring them, staying authentic. You locked into something that anyone can learn to connect. And at first you were not doing it, but you were able to do it. So I want to encourage listeners, they. That it's. It's learnable. This conversation could shift the whole vibe of your future videos by you just being intentional to develop connection in your future videos. And then lastly, you must focus on others and not yourself. Great communicators make it about the audience, not about themselves. And they have a heart of connecting and serving, not just performing. These are just a few takeaways from John Maxwell's book. Everybody Communicates, but Few Connect. I love that story that you shared, and I think that that gives us some nuances of thinking about how we show up and what energy we show up in in our next video. Okay, we are going to land the plane here, but I do have one final question for you that I think might be one of the most powerful questions. And actually, we need to cover one thing. So with that the one big thing that no one's ever Talked about on YouTube that I can really think of, this is a very rare scenario, and that is you stepped away from your channel, but you actually handed it off to somebody else. Ending how to end a YouTube channel. There's been many deaths of YouTube channels. There's many YouTube channels that just stop. There's been many people that just burn out and respect people go through all kinds of different stuff. But the fact that you eventually saw what you were doing, saw where your life was going. Can you tell us, like, what happened here? And how did you hand your channel off to somebody else? What gave you that decision? And I think even if this is not what's on our mind, think media, podcast community, like you might. This is just going to be a great thing to listen to because we don't think this far ahead. We don't even know that this is possible. So it's kind of a surprising topic. Tell us a little bit before we, you know, cover our final questions.
- [58:19]
Nathan S. Swine
Yeah. Oh, man, that's. That's actually so true. Because, goodness, when I started, and even up till maybe a year ago, I hadn't even considered it. I was like, what? You could just like, sell your channel, give your channel to somebody else, but this is actually an outlet that you can go through. So for me, I mean, the truth is, going through, creating the channel, it was incredible. Like, did so many cool things for us and our family. At the time I mentioned we were in debt when I was starting the channel. Fast forward a couple years, Praise the Lord. Like, the channel literally accelerated the rate at which we paid off all of our debt. We became debt free. We had money in the bank before our new son. It did so much in addition to a day job. But here's the thing with me, and this is a personal thing. I always viewed a day job as a means to an end. So I actually had made the decision. I never challenged my assumptions, so to speak. I just assumed, oh, the path for me to own my own thing, right, is to be an entrepreneur. And I wanted to be the kind of entrepreneur that didn't have to be limited to a physical, like, environment, like a location or sell physical products. I love the whole passive income things conversation for another day. So I was like, okay, YouTube, online business, I'll just build that, grow it. And now I get to, like, be an entrepreneur. But this is crazy. And if you're listening, lean in because this question will haunt you. So I'm sorry, but it's good for you. What do you want to want? I had a mentor ask me this. Like, I was like talking about stuff and like, career path stuff. And he was like, well, what do you want to want? So I was like, okay, well, I want freedom and flexibility. I want a theoretical, no cap on income. I like eat what I kill, get after it, right? I kind of want to just be able to take a Monday off if I want to. Like, I want, you know, a lot of the things that we want because of this YouTube thing, which it absolutely can provide. We see it each and every day around here. But I wanted those things, right? Or I should say, like, those are things I really wanted. But on the surface level, I was like, I want a business. I want a YouTube channel. But I wanted a business and a YouTube channel for those things. Freedom, flexibility. So after that just blew my mind and like, put me in therapy for a week because I had to deal with all that was like, okay, what I actually want is the freedom and flexibility. And I never considered that in the creator economy, there's actually a whole lot of paths that you can do that you. There's not just one size fits all. So while I'm all for in this crazy, I'm a coach here, right? Like, I'm all for helping people build their YouTube business, helping people build their channels, I am a champion for those folks. For me personally, I just realized, oh, there's other ways that I could get the same things out of my YouTube channel somewhere else, right? And so being in the music industry, a way that I would phrase it on my channel for people is like, a lot of people don't think you're a successful musician unless you're like, Beyonce, like, in the music world. And the perception of a lot of people, it's like, it's zero to Beyonce or an Ed Sheeran or whatever. It's like a big household name. Oh, that's how you've made it as a musician, which is a complete lie. Like, I'm living proof. There's so many people you've never heard of making a full time living writing songs because they're behind the scenes. They're not up in the lights. There's alternate career paths within the music industry. The same thing is true in the creator economy. So for me, I had to decide, okay, what is the. For me, I'm a Christian, follow Jesus. So I'm like, where do I think the Lord's calling me right now? And after again talking with my wife and kind of deciding what our future would look like and to Just full transparency, finding a place like Think Media being like, oh, wow. Actually, I think everything that we want, all the dreams that we have, although they're big, could fit here. And like, maybe there's another role that I could have in the creator economy and still be classified as a full time YouTuber. I know, Sean, you call all of us that right here at Think Media. Like, you're full time YouTubers, you're dealing with YouTube every single day, right? But there's a different path for the same end result is kind of the reasoning behind that for me. And so the way that I went about that was I had a buddy who's in the same niche, someone who I'd done some affiliate stuff for. We'd done like products together and launched each other's stuff. I just approached him and was like, hey, man, here's kind of where we're at with life. Here's where I think the Lord's calling me. You interested in the channel and the whole business as a whole. So not just the YouTube channel, but like the business it supported. In full disclosure, he got a bro deal is what I called it. The amount he paid was significantly less than I probably would have offered it to anybody else. But I want it to go into the right hands so that he's the right guy to steward this thing that I was just so blessed to be a part of, to help build and he gets to continue it. So in a nutshell, Sean, that's, that's.
- [62:42]
Sean Cannell
That whole thing super powerful. I have a lot of takeaways. Like one, the fact that, okay, ultimately though you built a channel up, the channel is successful, you start thinking about your own life. You're talking with your wife, you're talking with your family. It's possible to sell your channel, to exit your channel. Maybe more accurately, you had built a business and it wasn't jeeva, just the channel, it was the courses, the intellectual property, whatever you sold that, you move it to a different place. I love this other insight of what do you really want to want? Or what's like the deeper levels? Like, is it, do you want to be full time on YouTube? Do you want an online business? Is it ultimately freedom that you want? Is it a rhythm? Is it working with people you love? Like, there's just so many different. Some. Maybe the creator economy can also be really lonely. I think what's kind of cool about what we have at Think Media is it's a lot less lonely because we have a whole community of people get to work together and that's part of my value system too. It's like I've heard it said, stay small, keep it all in terms of business where if you just want the biggest margins possible, you maybe are optimizing for a very high margin. Simple. Tim Ferriss Four Hour Work Week Like I want to work as little as possible to get the most amount of margin possible so I can check out because I want to focus on my hobbies. That's a self awareness statement. The flip side might be I want to do cool things with that make a difference in the world with people that are cool and that I enjoy doing life with. That's where I lean in more. And we've experienced As a business owner at Think Media, there's been times when margins have been severely compressed. One I'm believing for a big future. But also that's not my main thing I'm solving for. If I've got enough personally as founder to as I've said, pay for guacamole at Chipotle and two scoops if I want. Like if I could pay my own bills. I love what we get to do at Think Media. I love the the vibe, getting to know you, different families and I believe future is bright and I'd much rather do a community thing. Well, I'm encouraging listeners and what you're saying is is maybe success in the creator economy or getting to work from home or going part time. Not maybe. It for sure could look different than you think it does. There's different career paths. We do say everyone working at Think Media is a full time youtuber. Started with me being a full time youtuber but now we do this full time and we have different roles, responsibilities and hats wear. But it just speaks to what's possible. And thus as you lean into this podcast, maybe you're even already a member of VRA or something like that. Your full time on YouTube might look different. You might be a YouTube strategist, you might be a coach someday or something else. So that's really cool and inspiring. Okay, there's a couple things. I do have one final question, but before we get there I do want to let listeners know. You know, as of today, Nathan is actually a coach inside of our video ran Academy, Elite and Accelerator programs. That's our highest level of YouTube coaching. At think Media, if you have enjoyed this conversation and you're serious about growing your channel, scaling your income, you want one on one coaching or strategic planning calls, hands on support channel reviews, all that kind of stuff, it's application only and we Only work with people that's a good fit for. So there's actually like zero stress. And going to viralvideocoach.com filling out the application. One of our team members will connect with you if it's even an initial fit. If not, no big deal. So you really have nothing to lose. You can click the link in the description or go to viralvideocoach.com it's really where we help entrepreneurs and creators map out a personalized game plan, audit their channel, and stay accountable week after week. And Nathan is one of our coaches over there, as well as a team of six or seven people I think now that are. Are think media coaches. And so if that sounds at all interesting, check that out. Viral video coach.com or the link in the description. Last question, Nathan, actually, before the last question, any. Any thoughts, anything you want to shout out? People can, if they want to follow you on Instagram or go check out, you know, this music production channel which is now being ran by the. The bro who got a good deal. Anything else you want to shout out if people want to connect with you?
- [66:48]
Nathan S. Swine
Oh, man. Yeah, I would say, yeah, if you happen to be listening and you want to make songs and stuff, you could go to Bedroom producer. That's the YouTube channel. And bedroomproducer.com is the business website. It's in wonderful hands, so you'd be well served there. And I would say, yeah, if you want to connect about, like, YouTube stuff, like, yeah, I mean, Viral Video Coach would be epic to go see if it'd be a good fit because, man, it's not just me and it's not just Sean. There's just, oh, my goodness, whole artillery of. I always say, like, we do YouTube battle. Like, you just have people who are just passionate about YouTube, just wicked savvy with how they have run their own businesses and help other people run their businesses. And so, man, I'd love to hang out like there if that'd be. If that'd be good. If you're in VRA already, maybe I'll see you on a think tip or something soon.
- [67:31]
Sean Cannell
Yes. All right, well, I want to acknowledge you. It's been an amazing conversation. Final question, though. What would you say to a creator who's under a thousand subs right now and feels like giving up?
- [67:46]
Nathan S. Swine
Okay, well, if you are under a thousand subscribers and you feel like giving up, the first thing I would say, and I've said this to many people that been able to work with, is like, welcome to YouTube. You know, these are very Real conversations and coaching calls. Welcome to YouTube and really welcome to anything under the category of pursuing your dream because you're going to hit the lulls, right? There's books about this, the dip, right? You hit this thing, this resistance, you feel like giving up. What I would want to encourage you with is that anybody you look up to right now, this is something I had to remember. Anyone that I looked up to when I was starting had to start somewhere. I mean, you know, the cliche thing in the YouTube education space is like, even Mr. Beast, right? Because he's like a really big YouTuber, but, like, his, like, home. Home videos are out there, right? Like, the dude started somewhere. I would say the same thing to musicians, right? Your favorite artist started with really bad songs. They started with demos on their hard drive. They had to fight through the same things. So really after you realize that, it's like, okay, so really the difference maker is me just choosing to continue. You know, like, it's kind of crazy. Like, I know that's. I didn't probably be oversimplifying things if I knew more context on someone's situation could be a little bit different. But if you're just feeling the stress of it, you're like, man, I've been at this video after video. What's going on? I just want to encourage you, like, it's not over by a long shot and maybe it's time, if you've been at it for a while, to just get another opinion. And I'd love to hang out with you. We'd all love to hang out with you at Think Media, but wherever it is, some sort of coach or even someone who's in your niche, just you could link up, like, link up with maybe a little further along just to try to not do this alone is a big, big defense system against fully burning out. As in, I'm done with my YouTube channel. Closing it down. It never got anywhere. Find somebody to rock with so you can hold each other accountable. Champions come in pairs of two because they battle each other to perfection. So stay the course, jump into a community. Remember, everybody starts here. Everybody's thought the exact same thing that you have thought. So the only difference now at this point is to decide to step. And you don't have to jump. You can step.
- [69:48]
Sean Cannell
Amazing advice, Nathan. Thank you so much. And Think Media podcast listeners, if you got value today, like rate, share, subscribe wherever you watch or listen, and your feedback really does mean a lot to us. If you leave a review on Apple Podcasts or a star rating on Spotify. It just helps get the message out of the Think Media Podcast. And I do want to thank you again for being a part of this community. And until next time, my name is Sean Cannell, your guide to building a profitable YouTube channel. This has been the Think Media Podcast, and I'll catch you in a future episode.