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The Think Media Podcast
428: Over 40? Why Now Is The Perfect Time To Start YouTube, AI Revolution, Business Strategy with Ken McElroy
01:45:29
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- [00:00]
Sean Cannell
Hey, before we get into today's episode, let me ask you a question. Do you want a step by step plan to start and grow on YouTube fast? Well, we're doing something brand new and it's called YouTube Jumpstart. It's a free three day online event and it's happening July 23rd, 24th and 25th live and online. You're going to get the exact blueprint we use at Think Media to grow, get views and even earn money before hitting 1000 subscribers. No fancy equipment needed. We're also going to be sharing some of the latest AI tools and YouTube strategies that we've never taught publicly before. So don't miss it. You can go to tubejumpstart.com to register for free and save your spot. And that is tubejumpstart.com to get access to this three day free online event. All right, let's jump into today's episode.
- [00:55]
Ken McElroy
As a business owner, I think that's just the wrong way to do YouTube, period. Do the opposite of what people are doing. It takes risk, but that's actually, I think, what, what Everybody wants.
- [01:05]
Sean Cannell
Ken McElroy is a real estate mogul, investor, CEO who's raised over a billion in capital. He has built an incredible YouTube channel with over 470,000 subscribers and 45 million views.
- [01:16]
Ken McElroy
Every partnership that I've ever seen, it's always that one person feels like they're pulling more weight than the other. And so the question is, if they're not aligned or they do the exact same thing, it's probably not a good partnership.
- [01:27]
Sean Cannell
So do you think the average person is underestimating AI?
- [01:30]
Ken McElroy
I do. I think it's the greatest time to start a business ever. Ever. A friend of mine who said that he represents a company where they have an AI board member.
- [01:38]
Sean Cannell
Okay. I mean, is it a sentient being I didn't go into, they have equity.
- [01:43]
Ken McElroy
All of that stuff is interesting. But if you're over 40, you're not worried, but you should be. When YouTube came around, I was like, this is a great opportunity for me to be quite honest, not to have to get on the road, not to have to fly to some place and speak in front of a group of people and, you know, and I could be home more with my family. And I'll tell you something really interesting. I get so many emails and conversations and people coming up to me, they're like, thank you, thank you, thank you. I'm not always right, but I just put it out that way. YouTube gives me more than I, I Give it. I feel like we own over 10,000 apartments now and a couple billion dollars worth of assets. And so I started with a business and then I'm backing into YouTube and I cannot believe the power it has.
- [02:29]
Sean Cannell
I still don't think you went viral by accident.
- [02:31]
Ken McElroy
Yeah, no, I agree. My channel's been growing the way it has been for various reasons, but I think those are really, really important things.
- [02:37]
Sean Cannell
Well, first, today's guest is not your typical influencer. This year already he has bought over $503 million in real estate raising money using YouTube. And so you see a lot of people spouting off business advice, real estate advice, and even content advice on the Internet. But if you dig deep, you find that they don't have a ton of depth. Well, I'm excited because today's gu, a real estate investor, CEO and strategist who doesn't really just care about going viral, but cares about trust, leads and leverage. Ken McElroy is a real estate mogul and investor CEO who's raised over a billion in capital and he has built an incredible YouTube channel with over 470,000 subscribers and 45 million views. So this is going to be a power packed episode on YouTube, strategy on starting and growing and really on the business mindset and a strategic mindset that you're probably not going to find anywhere else on YouTube. Ken, welcome to the show.
- [03:36]
Ken McElroy
Hey, thanks. I appreciate being here.
- [03:39]
Sean Cannell
So I'm super grateful to talk to you. And let's go kind of in the lightning round with a few things. You've got 470,000 subs. What's working best right now on YouTube that you've seen for growing your channel?
- [03:50]
Ken McElroy
Well, the shorts seem to be working right now. Right. And we just kind of started though, so, you know, I'm still learning about YouTube. You know, I started with a business and then I'm backing into YouTube and I cannot believe that the power that it, it has and holds. And so I'm still learning.
- [04:05]
Sean Cannell
How long have you been on the platform?
- [04:07]
Ken McElroy
Really, just about four or five years. And, and you know, I, we had a channel before that, but we really didn't do much on it. And the pandemic kind of gave me the time to, to dedicate to it and that's really when I started focusing on it more.
- [04:22]
Sean Cannell
And what was your motivation and mindset being a busy business owner, operating all kinds of different stuff to take the time to invest in content?
- [04:30]
Ken McElroy
Well, I had a history prior to that of speaking and I have books that I've done Over the years and you know, we have a. I have six different books on real estate and those have done really well. And so people knew who I was. I was doing book signings and touring and things like that with, with one of our investors, Robert Kiyosaki, who wrote Rich Dad, Poor Dad. So, you know, I had a little bit of experience out there and what happened was I saw these YouTube influencers, mostly young, online, selling books and tapes and courses, and I'm like, you know, what is 20 year old really know? And, and I'm like, well, I think the, I think there's a market for, for knowledge. And I never had the time and, and here I was at home. So I found a, a guy to help me film off of Craigslist of all places. He came to my house and, and we just started.
- [05:20]
Sean Cannell
How long you been in business?
- [05:21]
Ken McElroy
Been. Been in business over 30 years.
- [05:24]
Sean Cannell
So you mentioned, you know, these young influencers giving business advice. What's your brutal opinion about maybe some of the real estate advice out there? The people just putting stuff out on YouTube. When it comes to like, who we're listening to for advice, I always, I.
- [05:40]
Ken McElroy
Always just default to who is your teacher and what are they doing? Right. I feel the same way about the school system, to be honest. Like, who am I getting advice from? And that's why I love YouTube, because if you really flush it out, you like, like for. I love golf, for example, I'm going to go watch people that are actually at the top of their game that are videos, right? Those are the people. But there's a whole slew of people that aren't. And so it's the same kind of thing in real estate for me is I want to, I'm not looking for house flippers. I'm not looking for people that are trying to sell coaching and mentoring. I'm. I'm really looking for people that are really doing it. And those are the people I follow.
- [06:20]
Sean Cannell
And how do you. What's like your sniff test for that? Or what would you say, how many fake or exaggerated claims and exaggerated gurus are there on the Internet right now?
- [06:31]
Ken McElroy
I would say most. Yeah, I mean, you know, I'm sure some people have really good points here and there, but the, you know, there's not a lot of old guys like me on YouTube. And so that's actually why I'm excited about it because. And I think that's partially why I'm. My channel's been growing the way it has been. It's, it's not that I Have any revolutionary advice? It's just guys my age and even friends of mine that I really admire. I would call them peers. They're not on YouTube, right?
- [07:01]
Sean Cannell
Yeah.
- [07:01]
Ken McElroy
And those are the guys. That's really the environment I hang out in, mostly.
- [07:05]
Sean Cannell
Yeah. So that's interesting. It's one reason why I'm so grateful you're on the podcast is because of just the depth of knowledge that you have and what's your mindset when it comes to YouTube. Because, of course, a lot of creators think about ad revenue. I'm thinking that's. That's not what you. You care about. What do you track instead?
- [07:23]
Ken McElroy
Yeah, I'll tell you. I'll actually tell you the funniest story ever. This is absolutely true. I first did my YouTube videos, and I. A couple of them went viral, and I think that's probably because a lot of people were home during the pandemic. And about four or five months later, the guy who was helping me goes, you know, how much money are you making? I go, what are you talking about? I. And he goes, well, you know, like, they run ads against your stuff, and there's money that comes in. And I'm like, where? Where is it? Where? How much is it? And we. After. After figuring it out, we realized that we had. Somebody had set up a bank account attached to it, and there was money in it. And that was. Actually, I didn't do it initially for money, and I found the money later. And then I started thinking, well, man, if. If I can really embrace this and I can have YouTube pay for my staff. And that was where my head was. It's just like any other business. How do I generate money on YouTube so I can employ people to get my message out there more? And so that's really been my focus. I have never, ever taken one nickel out of the company for anything, any kind of living or anything. It's always poured right back into people or to growth of the. Of the business itself. So. So yes, it's super secondary. It's really fun. And. And I'm learning so much because the people I'm hiring, they know so much. I know. I know nothing compared to them. You know, it's. It's. It's been a blast.
- [08:51]
Sean Cannell
So you accidentally were essentially making money. You were like, wait, I've got money. It's just sitting in a bank account that was set up. Couple videos went viral. What is the. Some of the secrets? Because I can see some strategy in the topics you cover, the titles you choose, you definitely tap into Kind of maybe a news and a perspective and always. There can be so many ups and downs with interest rates and all these different things. I don't, I still don't think you went viral by accident.
- [09:19]
Ken McElroy
Yeah, no, I, I agree. Now I watch. You know, I'm, I, I have a huge responsibility because people invest with me. That's like my, that's, that's what keeps me up at night. Like, am I, I have the trust of so many people and am I putting their money in the right place? And to me, that's, that's the whole issue. And so I'm OCD or anal or whatever you want to call it. Over all the data and all the analytics with markets, with submarkets, with development, construction, interest rates, inflation, operating expenses, you name it. So that's where I spent all my time. And so what was easy for me was to be able to just talk about those things on the channel, and that's really where I need to be. And so what I'm doing is, I'm saying, this is why I wouldn't buy here, or this is, this is the obstacle I've got going on. You know, we've got. I've got 300 employees, and we own over 10,000 apartments now and, you know, a couple billion dollars worth of assets that we bought over the years. And I've sold a bunch, I own a bunch. And so I have a property management company, a development company, a construction company. And so we're doing all these things. And so, so I am literally in the boardroom with lenders and, you know, private equity and wealth managers and, you know, my own people trying to figure out how deploy the right capital in the right spot for the return for not only myself or for my investors. So that's what I do 95% of the time. And so for, for when I get on a mic in front of YouTube, I, you know, I'm, I'm already there. There's not a lot of. There's not a tremendous amount of research there. There are some things that, that I'm tracking, like everyone you know, I'm tracking the Fed, I'm tracking the administration and the policies and those things that are going on. So what actually has been helpful is I actually take what I'm reading or researching for granted. And everyone else around me is saying, you should be talking about that. You should be talking about that. I'm like, oh, good idea. So it's actually the opposite, where it's not a tremendous amount of prep. It's really. I Literally move from my boardroom into the podcast room with almost the same topic that I just had and sometimes was really cool. Examples for people where they're across the table from. And so it's kind of real time.
- [11:51]
Sean Cannell
So there's a couple of big takeaways for me. It would seem that in a way, your YouTube success is at the intersection of lived experience. Nothing beats actual experience. Time in the trenches, what you're already doing in terms of research, what you're already researching, what you're already studying, and at the intersection of those and then real operation, not just previous experience, but having case studies and stories from what's happening now. And so you're just. YouTube's just an extension of that because you're living it over here. You can make content quickly because you're not coming sitting down to research content. You're living that real estate life, that investing life, and then just hitting record and making videos about it. And people want to know what you know because you're playing the game at such a high level.
- [12:40]
Ken McElroy
Yeah, that's exactly right. So. So as an example, like, we have. We have properties that are doing really well. We have properties that aren't right. And we're all over that. And so I talk about that, and we have properties that we're developing and we have properties that we're buying. We have properties that we're refinancing. So I just bring all that into the podcast room. Real. And we just talk about that.
- [13:01]
Sean Cannell
Your wins and your losses.
- [13:03]
Ken McElroy
Yeah, yeah.
- [13:03]
Sean Cannell
Something. Yeah. So this one's going well. Lessons. This one's not going well. Gives you the case studies in the real substance, which is going to make you stand out from somebody who's either just doing theory, information might be good, but it's not the lived experience and the book of business and all of that that you have going on.
- [13:19]
Ken McElroy
Right, right. And the cool part is I can. I can bring in some of my people. Like I brought in the head of our management company as an example. And one of the. One of my topics was what's really going on with my 10,000 tenants? And she came in and she was nervous as heck, as you can imagine, but she crushed it. And she's like, this is really what's happening at the street level, at Main Street. So those are resources I have that, you know, are.
- [13:45]
Sean Cannell
That work for me now for other professionals, investors. They're in real estate. Maybe they're. Maybe they're agents, maybe at a high level. Business people, entrepreneurs. What do you think the decision making framework, you would encourage them if they said, you know, I'm trying to think of YouTube is right for me. Should I do YouTube and why should I do YouTube? Is there going to be an ROI for me? How would you coach a professional to make that decision?
- [14:09]
Ken McElroy
Really good question. Well, first I will tell you. When I was doing all my deal, I was doing all my real estate investing and all that stuff. And then I ran into Kiyosaki, Robert Kiyosaki. He had written that book, Rich Dad, Poor Dad. I had not read it and I didn't know who he was. And he said, you know, I want to invest with you. I'm like, okay. You know, just like, you know, I was raising capital at the time. I went to one of his events and he asked me to come up and speak. And I couldn't believe the amount of knowledge that people were looking for in the room. And, and that kind of showed me that there's a lot of people out there that really just want, like, what's really going on at the, at the Main street level. And so, so that's when I kind of learned that there's this insatiable appetite for people that really don't know how. And, and so, so I had done that for some time. And so when YouTube came around, I was like, this is a great opportunity for me to be, to be quite honest, not to have to get on the road, not to have to fly to some place and speak in front of a group of people and, you know, and I could be home more with my family and not have all that travel. I can get to more people quicker. And, and you know, I'm really saying kind of the same things I was when I show up at somewhere. And so I was doing some speaking here and there just to elevate our brand. And this is who we are, this is what we're doing. And, and YouTube just really, really obviously escalated that to incredible degree. And so, so for us, I'm just trying to take a local little company out of Scottsdale, Arizona, like that I have, that I've started and, and let more people know about it. And it seemed to work.
- [15:56]
Sean Cannell
So if you were coaching somebody, would you say you were already speaking? Do you think that's a prerequisite that they are going to want to be on camera and actually create content? I do.
- [16:06]
Ken McElroy
I think they need to learn how to communicate. And I'll tell you something really interesting. I'd been doing all that stuff for all those years and, and I've actually hired speaking Coaches and all that kind of stuff because, you know, I think like anything like, yeah, if you want to do something you, you know, whether it's running a Marathon or CrossFit or anything, it's good to have coaches. And I just firmly believe that. So I felt the same way. And so yes, I think anytime that you can learn that and what I did is during the pandemic of all things, I went and took comedy class, standup comedy. And I did it obviously because I was like, I need to learn, you know, how to bring more comedy, more, more humor because I'm kind of serious when I'm on stage. And I didn't like that about me. So I'm constantly doing things like that and I think the, that you can just, you know, sharpen that saw. And so yes, I, I don't think that. I think everybody starts at the same place. They don't know how to do it. My wife and I did it together and she is shy and afterwards she, about a week later she, she had to do this presentation with somebody. She goes, I just stood right up for five minutes. And she goes, it was easy as heck. You know, compared to, you know, have we had to do a live at the end of 12 weeks, we had to do a live studio audience stand up come routine. And she said compared to that this was easy. And so, so yes, those things do matter. And I, and so yes, I think any, anytime anybody can learn how to present, speak better, communicate better, articulate really complex things simply. I love that in Steve Jobs book he talks really, really a lot about this. You know, how do you take something so complex and narrow it down so that people can really, really understand? Kiyosaki is a master at this through storytelling and all that. That does not come natural. You know, you have to read, you have to listen, you have to absorb. And, and so I'm still continuing to do that today.
- [18:04]
Sean Cannell
So If a operator, CEO, business owner wants to get into YouTube, you're. They're, they're talking to you about whether or not they should do it or how they should approach it. They, number one, need to have the desire. Yeah, they maybe still need to work on their skills. Would you. What if they said, but I don't want to be in the content myself, but should I leverage YouTube if I want my to get more brand awareness, if I want to get Leads would in 2025, would you recommend YouTube as an asset, a strategic business asset for business owners?
- [18:36]
Ken McElroy
Without a doubt. And I'll tell you one of the books that I bought after we met was founders brand. I actually still have it with me even I was reading on the plane here. And it specifically says that people follow people, not necessarily these corporate brands. And, and there's some truth to that. And you know, I know it does get gray in some of those areas. But, and I, I think that most people don't really want to be on the forefront. They maybe, you know, they like to be a little more humble or they think it's egoic or whatever. And, and I agree with a lot of that. But I will tell you, and I actually, I don't do it for any of those reasons. I, I believe that Wall street specifically is taking people's money. They're taking it in the form of a pension, they're taking it in the form of insurance policies, they're taking in form of 401k or retirement and they manage it for themselves. And so most people don't understand how to, what to even ask. It just gets managed. And, and so that's, that's the villain for me is I, and so for me this is an opportunity for me to say take control of the don't. You don't necessarily have to invest with me, but take control. And this is what you don't get taught in school and take control of your finances. And even if you turn it over to somebody, ask the right questions. And so, so that's, you know, so when you start to think of the why, whatever the why is, it's not, this is way bigger than me raising money for real estate. And so I think then it starts to make sense.
- [20:14]
Sean Cannell
So that's interesting. So, so part of, because for someone listening to this, especially professional, and especially a professional that's maybe already wealthy and successful, it might be hard to get over the hump of the effort it's going to take or the time it's going to take to do YouTube. But what you're saying is, but if you got a bigger mission and oh, you know, I don't know, I might get uncomfortable. I don't want to put myself out there. What are people going to think? You're saying? You get a stronger why than all of that and YouTube is an amplifier. So that's why you invest in it. That's why you want to figure it out. Am I tracking 100%?
- [20:44]
Ken McElroy
And I, I get so many emails and conversations and people coming up to me, it just, even, even at the airport they're like, thank you, thank you, thank you. You know, you've changed the direction of My family and you know, because I really tried to just put out this is, this is the way I see it. And right or wrong, you know, I'm not always right, but I just put it out that way and it's received that way. And I'll tell. YouTube gives me more than I, I give it. I feel like.
- [21:15]
Sean Cannell
So what's your goal with every video you post? How do you track success?
- [21:19]
Ken McElroy
Well, obviously like everyone you know, on the, on the impressions and the views and all that kind of stuff. And so like anything, I'm trying to be as good as I can. I'm learning about, you know, hooks and the way ad spend works and, and all those little things and cadence. You also being really clear and short and to the point and all of those things. So, so for me, that's what I'm trying to do. And, and, and, but, but at the end of the day, I think success is. It all rolls up to just the education part. If, if, if my channel is viewed as one of the channels that, that, that's not selling people stuff. It's just, you know, it's just educational. I get this all the time. I know you don't have to do this, but thank you. I just, yeah, you just look at my comments, you'll see a lot of people say thank you. In fact, sometimes people get on me for like being late or something. Sometimes I'm late and they're like, give him a break. He doesn't have to do this, you know, and so it's nice on my community kind of covers my butt sometimes, you know, because I'm busy. And so that's been, that's been great. So the community's given me a lot.
- [22:32]
Sean Cannell
Well, so then you're giving all this incredible information. You're changing people's life. They come up to in the airport. Thank you for the impact. Yet at the same time, people can also still be an investor with you or they still can discover education materials that'll take them deeper. So how does that happen with your YouTube channel?
- [22:51]
Ken McElroy
Yeah, so there's a few ways, you know, we don't, I don't know that I've ever done a video says you. Do you guys want to invest with me ever? I just always say, here's a deal I'm working on. We just bought a deal in North Scottsdale. It was $97 million. We just closed it like less than a month ago. And we had like 50 million in debt and call it close to 50 million in equity. Right. And you know, I just Talk about it. I got to steal an escrow. I take a video, walking around the hallway, say hi to the manager. You know, just real basic. And sometimes I'm in the boardroom or meeting with maybe some lenders and, and what they do is they, they like, hey, how do we know more about this deal? And that's, that's kind of how it go. And it's not, we don't do any kind of pitches or investment, any kind of decks or anything like that on YouTube. We, I just literally talk about the stuff I'm working on, and organically the list grows. I think we're a little over 4,000 people right now that, that say that they can, that they want to invest in our deals. All accredited investors.
- [24:03]
Sean Cannell
So, so you're building an email list of accredited investors. Yeah, and there's this term called brand lift. So essentially, if someone sees a video, they see content, they see you walking through. What may be happening is they're looking up your website or they're clicking through to be like, their interest is created, they're looking out your brand, they're seeking out your brand. And then their, their curiosity is peaked. They want to get on that list so they could get into the deals.
- [24:30]
Ken McElroy
Yeah, that's right. That's right. And so what we do is I just keep everybody up to date on where we are, and then when we hit send for the, when the business plan is done, and I've done all my due diligence, we hit and that business plan gets sent to everyone at the exact same time. And, and then they, it gets filled based on my investment relations team. They, they basically get the emails and say, I'm in, I'm in, I'm in a minute. And that's how we do our raises.
- [25:02]
Sean Cannell
So do you think you've seen probably different approaches? Do you think that business owners should pitch or sell on YouTube? It's not your philosophy. Are you intentional about being against that? Maybe the ways other people are doing it a little harder sell. It seems like you have kind of a soft sell approach and you're clearly, it's clearly working.
- [25:23]
Ken McElroy
Yeah, I, I, I, I have this theory. The bigger the brochure, the worse the deal. I believe that. Yeah, like, the more you have to, like, you know, if, you know, like, like if I sit down with you over a restaurant and I, I carve something out on a napkin, you know, it has three or four moves and you're like, okay, I got it.
- [25:46]
Sean Cannell
It makes sense. It's simple.
- [25:47]
Ken McElroy
That's it. I, I Think everything should be that simple. And if they're not, then there's all this sales stuff around, whatever it is. And so I always, I'm like, that doesn't sniff correctly to me. You know, it just seems to me like. And, and I always have the same model too, for me. So I'm a cash flow guy, period. I'm not a capital gain guy. So the difference is if I'm going to buy something today, it has to have cash flow, period. If I'm going to take it out of a 4%, let's say treasury, it's got to make way more than that, period. It's not going to be, oh, if we do these things and the market, you know, cooperates, then, you know, so I don't do any of that. So everything we buy has to have that sniff test. And then of course, I want what's called forced equity. So it needs to have some kind of story says, you know, it's 50 occupied and you know, we're gonna bring it up to market or whatever it is. You know, just nothing crazy. So. So real basic stuff that people can understand.
- [26:51]
Sean Cannell
That's fascinating. I love the vision of simplicity and the more marketing, sales fireworks, if you will, and people are doing cartwheels to try to make a deal happen. The simplicity of. If you got the real stuff, it doesn't need all the spice.
- [27:09]
Ken McElroy
Doesn't. No, it really doesn't. Like, it's. I mean, you know, I mean, you know, like you bought stuff before, you're like, okay, let's. This is a good deal.
- [27:18]
Sean Cannell
Yeah.
- [27:19]
Ken McElroy
You know, immediately. Most people know immediately. And so, you know, I just. Now, for me, it's how many people know, right. And it's different. I'm just, how can I increase my bandwidth of people actually seeing that video of me walking through a project that we're about ready to buy and, and, and, you know, so to me, that's the right way to do that, is just let more people know, but never have any kind of closing technique or any kind of stuff like that.
- [27:47]
Sean Cannell
Do you think all real estate investors should start YouTube channels?
- [27:50]
Ken McElroy
No. Well, I guess it depends on, you know, what kind of investor they are.
- [27:58]
Sean Cannell
Yeah.
- [27:59]
Ken McElroy
So, you know, there. And here's what I mean. Like, I think we just went through that and there's a tremendous amount of people that realize that they could raise money on YouTube, and they did. And that's starting to show itself now. And, And a lot of those people.
- [28:21]
Sean Cannell
Are really in trouble because they might have been good at communicating, good at Content, good at marketing. Big brochure.
- [28:29]
Ken McElroy
Yeah.
- [28:29]
Sean Cannell
Or, and, and got some money, but they didn't. Especially some people that maybe deployed that in the last four years at the wrong time.
- [28:36]
Ken McElroy
Yeah. And I would, I would go out and even say that I don't think they believed in their heart that they were actually doing anything wrong.
- [28:43]
Sean Cannell
Sure.
- [28:44]
Ken McElroy
But they don't know what they don't know. So they think that money is. When you have money, you should go buy stuff. I don't think that way. I think when you have an incredible deal, then you go find the money. It's very different. So, you know, you never, you never hypes. It's the wrong, it's the wrong way around. Like, you always find something that. And then like, like again, like if I'm sitting with you and I go check this out, you're like, okay, I want it on that. Then I, the, the, the business plan and the raising the money become the very last thing. It's actually the easiest part. The reason raising the money is honestly the easiest part.
- [29:26]
Sean Cannell
If the deal is great.
- [29:27]
Ken McElroy
Correct.
- [29:27]
Sean Cannell
Yeah.
- [29:28]
Ken McElroy
Yes, exactly. Right. So that's what I mean by real estate investor. So, so, you know, it's a big category. And so, so the question would be, you know, and, and there's so many of these examples if, if there's somebody that was a teacher or a plumber or an engineer, and all of a sudden they're like, I'm going to go out and raise money online. They're a real estate investor, you know, Would you invest with them? Probably not. I probably would, though, if they, they got the heck beat out of them, you know, after four or five or six years or 10 years. And so my general rule is not to really listen to anybody that hasn't done it for at least 10 years because they have to go through cycles. Like right now, people are like, they're freaking out. My entire career was built on today's interest rates. Like from the beginning.
- [30:21]
Sean Cannell
Yeah.
- [30:22]
Ken McElroy
Like, what we just went through was a gift. Yeah. So this is super normal for me. But if you started six, seven, eight years ago, you're freaking out.
- [30:30]
Sean Cannell
Yeah.
- [30:30]
Ken McElroy
Like, this is the worst market ever. It's not. It's the greatest time. So, you know, I have a different perspective. And so you have to, you don't learn anything when, when things are. Times are good. Like you learn everything when you're losing stuff and, you know, and a deal doesn't go well and you're talking to your lenders and your investors and, and you're scrambling with your property managers and, and you know, that's actually, that's actually when you learn the most.
- [31:00]
Sean Cannell
Are you ready to start your YouTube channel but you don't know where to begin? Or have you been posting videos but you're frustrated because you're just not getting the views and nobody is seeing them? For a limited time, you can get the number one YouTube strategy book, YouTube Secrets for free at ytsecrets.com this book is the proven blueprint that has helped thousands of people go from zero subscribers to a thriving channel. All I ask is that you pay shipping and then I will mail you the brand new updated second edition of YouTube secrets. And when you place your order today, there's a couple other super cool things that I'll hook you up with. First, you're going to get instant access to a free Deep dive masterclass where I will break down the exact strategy I'm currently using to generate over 120,000 views per day every single day on YouTube and generate over $100,000 per month on the platform, as well as the three biggest mistakes that most creators make when starting and trying to grow their channel. That class is free to watch instantly when you pick up this special offer. Now you're also going to get my video series called the Perfect Video Recipe. One of the updated chapters in the second edition is titled the Perfect Video Recipe. It's actually a formula for how to structure YouTube videos to get maximum views and how to break through in the YouTube algorithm. This is the exact formula that readers of the book and our students are using to generate millions of views. And again, that'll just be included when you jump on this limited offer. Third, you're going to get access to our 1000 Subs Club email newsletter which delivers actionable weekly tips to your email inbox that will help you get to 1,000 subscribers fast. And we also do really cool weekly giveaways that includes lighting and microphones and YouTube equipment, plus software that will help you on your creator journey. But here's the thing. Supplies are limited on this free book promotion. So if you want to grab this offer, go to ytsecrets.com right now and just place your order covering shipping and I'll get this book in the mail to you right away. So when it comes to building the machine of YouTube team delegation, you have a co host. There's others that might want to co lead or have, you know, co host a podcast with a spouse. There could be pros and cons or challenges with that. They're Listening to this, but you're not editing, you're not uploading. So what does your team handle? And how did you build that?
- [33:25]
Ken McElroy
Yeah, so I first started with my guy Jerry, who, right off of Craigslist, literally came to my house. He did everything.
- [33:33]
Sean Cannell
What was the Craigslist search for me?
- [33:35]
Ken McElroy
It was just somebody who could video it.
- [33:37]
Sean Cannell
So it's like videographers in video and edit.
- [33:41]
Ken McElroy
Yes, exactly. Right.
- [33:43]
Sean Cannell
Okay.
- [33:43]
Ken McElroy
And there's Covid. Yeah. And. And my idea was. So everybody had been sent home, as you know, and we had. We were like, okay, well, we probably need a studio now, because people don't want to travel. So I had my. One of my original books that was a best seller. Still is crushing it. It's called the ABCs of Real Estate investing. I'm like, I'm going to turn that into a video book. That was actually how I started.
- [34:11]
Sean Cannell
For free.
- [34:11]
Ken McElroy
For free. Yeah.
- [34:12]
Sean Cannell
So I'm gonna take a book that I have, film a video series around it, upload it to YouTube.
- [34:16]
Ken McElroy
So that took hours and hours and hours. Right. Going through each chapter. And he came to my house and we filmed it. And then he's like, you know, we. We probably should. Like this. You could probably sell this. I was like. Because I had never sold anything online. And. And so we put it out there for a modest price. I can't remember off the top of my head, but it was not very much. Few hundred bucks, maybe. And we sold, like, $250,000 in a week.
- [34:43]
Sean Cannell
Yeah.
- [34:44]
Ken McElroy
I was like, what? And these are probably people that read my book, because by that time, the book had been out for over 10 years. And. And so. And that paid for my studio. So, like. Okay, this is interesting.
- [34:57]
Sean Cannell
At home.
- [34:58]
Ken McElroy
No, we. We did it at my office.
- [34:59]
Sean Cannell
Okay, so you had an office in Scottsdale.
- [35:02]
Ken McElroy
Yeah.
- [35:03]
Sean Cannell
And you had some space that you devoted. Do you know how big the actual studio is?
- [35:07]
Ken McElroy
Yeah, it was. It was probably 20 by 30. It was an. It was a file storage room.
- [35:12]
Sean Cannell
Okay.
- [35:13]
Ken McElroy
In my office. We just pulled all the files out and painted it black and erased ceilings.
- [35:17]
Sean Cannell
And how much did you spend?
- [35:19]
Ken McElroy
We spent. Well, the actual. What they did is they. They. They built a studio in a hangar. And then we went and checked it out. We. It was like, you know, like, you could check how you wanted it, how big and all that satter. Raise floor and all that. And it had the bars up top with the. With.
- [35:36]
Sean Cannell
So you went, this is a very nice studio.
- [35:38]
Ken McElroy
Yeah. And I didn't know any better. Right?
- [35:40]
Sean Cannell
Yeah.
- [35:40]
Ken McElroy
I was like, okay, yeah. So so we had somebody kind of quarterbacking it and it ended up, that ended up costing us 150 I think.
- [35:49]
Sean Cannell
For just that and that and counting the cameras and everything.
- [35:52]
Ken McElroy
Yeah, yeah.
- [35:53]
Sean Cannell
Okay.
- [35:53]
Ken McElroy
And then, and then we had, we have our own house construction team. Right. So I just called my John or Krause, our head of construction. I go, hey, I need this room turned.
- [36:02]
Sean Cannell
Yeah.
- [36:03]
Ken McElroy
And so he came with his crew and did that. And so I was pretty cheap, but yeah. And then we just started filming in there. But.
- [36:10]
Sean Cannell
And his name was Jerry.
- [36:11]
Ken McElroy
Jerry, yeah.
- [36:12]
Sean Cannell
He make it all the way. So now he's still here? He's still here.
- [36:15]
Ken McElroy
He's still with me. Yeah.
- [36:16]
Sean Cannell
There's a studio. You. And did you, did you shoot the ABCs of real estate investing just at your office?
- [36:22]
Ken McElroy
My house. At the house. Because the office was closed at the time.
- [36:25]
Sean Cannell
Got it.
- [36:26]
Ken McElroy
And, and so that's when I realized, but then I, to be honest, I didn't really want to be in the product selling, you know, that like, like courses. No, no, that wasn't really my thing. So you know, I, I, I wanted, I did that to, to, to build a studio. Right. I was like, well, because it's either out of my pocket or go figure this out. So we figured that out. That worked. And so after that more people wanted some stuff. So we did that for a little while. But I was like, you know, that's just not my thing. I don't really want to do courses and coaching and those kinds of things. Now, now what we have found is there's, there's a lot of people at different price points that want to different things. And so we've now kind of settled in on, you know, on, on a program. You know, we have a, a very.
- [37:12]
Sean Cannell
Basic, like a membership.
- [37:14]
Ken McElroy
Yep, very basic website based membership where they have access to me. And then I have the Limitless conference, which is one time a year. We have about 2,000 people coming up, 50 speakers, five stages. And that's for like more accredited type investors. And then I have a mastermind that I do four times a year. And that's, that's a little bit more expensive. It's, but it's, and that's me for, for you know, two and a half days.
- [37:44]
Sean Cannell
Got it. So you've kind of built out different levels to serve people. Different levels. They may not, they're not an accredited investor yet, but they want to get into the real estate game. They could be a part of your membership. How long did it take to build out these things?
- [37:56]
Ken McElroy
Forever.
- [37:56]
Sean Cannell
Yeah, it's been the last five years.
- [37:58]
Ken McElroy
Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, it was all like, it was, it was driven by customer. Not really that strategic. Be honest. I didn't really sit down and go, this is, you know, it was, it was, you know, who are we serving? And also looking at other people. What are they doing? How does this work? At the same time, trying to run my business, you know, but what was happening is we have a lot of people that want to. Want to be coached or mentored, and I don't have the time for that. And I didn't want to be in that business. But I did say if, if I could create a mastermind and have four events a year. First I checked my wife, like, this is cool.
- [38:40]
Sean Cannell
Yeah.
- [38:40]
Ken McElroy
And she's like, yeah, yeah, let's do it. I go, okay. So we did that. And, and I have four partners in that so that I don't have to carry all the weight. So once again, not necessarily doing it for the income. Doing it just to, to. Because I have investors that are with me that are in that mastermind, but also we bring in all kinds of stuff. Like the last time it was all AI and all gold and silver and, and, and George Gammon, he's a partner. You know, he, he's just, you know, speaks about the, you know, he lives in Columbia. He looks at the world a little bit differently. And so, so we have, you know, this. And that's, that's what I learned, John, with my investors, like anybody, they're not all in with me. You know, they're everywhere. They want to know about gold and silver and oil and gas and, and real and self storage and multifamily and single family. And they want to know about stocks and bonds and, and all those things like anyone would. And so that's the goal of that. And that's the goal of Limitless, too. I just listen to my investors and they have so many questions on so many things, and I like to stay in my lane. And I'm like, you know, it's a really, really good idea. Let's bring everyone into one room and vet them, make sure that they're really doing the work and they're not just selling products. So I got Limitless. There's no selling from stage zero.
- [40:05]
Sean Cannell
Yeah.
- [40:06]
Ken McElroy
It's just pure education.
- [40:08]
Sean Cannell
How big are the masterminds?
- [40:09]
Ken McElroy
We, we're at around 50 right now. So actually we're. And we, we capped it at 50.
- [40:14]
Sean Cannell
And, and that's. And they go to all four or just 50 each.
- [40:18]
Ken McElroy
They're, they're 50 people, four of them. Four. Four events a year.
- [40:23]
Sean Cannell
So kind of very exclusive way to get connected is that also have you. I mean you said it's not really a money making thing especially compared to everything else you're doing. Have you found though, it's this idea of iron sharpens iron, like getting that deal flow, knowledge flow that if you're, if there's anything you want to do. It's kind of like you mentioned, if you were gonna take health seriously, you would hire a coach and get a trainer. But even this, the community you're in, that just amplifies everything.
- [40:50]
Ken McElroy
It's unbelievable. And I'll just give you an example. We just had it in Orlando and we. I was trying to figure out why is gold making such a run on like, you know, it's on this crazy run right now. And I was like, I don't know. I'm in the real estate game. I'm trying to keep my head down on that. So we put. We have two members. One is Mike Maloney who owns GoldSilver.com the other is Daniel Samuelson who has. Is one of the biggest gold dealers out of Austin, Texas. We had those two and we had Robert Kiyosaki and George Gammon just do a panel to 50 people. Wow. And you know, like just softball questions. And they all had different perspectives and George was looking at it from the euro dollar and out, you know, what's going on with people trusting the US dollar and the flight to that. And Dana, you know, Mike, Mike lives in Puerto Rico. So, so. And they're all Mike Mike. And by the way, all, all those people are, are our own members. They're not paid speakers. So they, they got. Came out of the room. And so those are the. So everybody's. I, I feel like everybody has a really, really good perspective on what they do. And a lot of people are at the top of their game and, and you can't be everything. So for us, you know, we do bring in speakers from time to time, but I think that when you, when you can just bring something up like that out of the room, it's powerful, you know. And so, so that's what that's for. And, and also the one on ones, you know, the breakfast and the lunches and the dinners and you know, all those kinds of things. I mean, that's how we met, right?
- [42:22]
Sean Cannell
That's right.
- [42:23]
Ken McElroy
Yeah. Just that side stuff is, is, you know, being also important.
- [42:28]
Sean Cannell
That's a great point. We were in a room of less than 100 people.
- [42:30]
Ken McElroy
Yeah.
- [42:31]
Sean Cannell
@ a YPO thing and we're both speaking, but we sit down, we have lunch. Here we are.
- [42:38]
Ken McElroy
Yeah.
- [42:39]
Sean Cannell
Yeah, that's. That's so powerful. Okay, so we're talking about team. What has it grown into for the isolated YouTube stuff. So Jerry, he's helping you film. What's it take to get done? Titles, thumbnails, channel management, all that.
- [42:52]
Ken McElroy
Yep. So I've got got basically just a few people. I've got Jerry basically. So what I've, what I've done recently is, is we have Jerry in charge of podcasts. So Jerry does all the filming, he does audio video. So you know, we're crushing it also on their downloads for the podcast. So he's just in charge of podcasts. And then we have a, a guy by the name of Josh who does our YouTube and, and Josh comes up with the titles and thumbnails. And then we have a lot of that stuff outsourced out of the country. Some of it, not all of it.
- [43:28]
Sean Cannell
Like some thumbnail design.
- [43:30]
Ken McElroy
Yep, thumbnail design and, and titles and, and all of that. And so Josh is pretty much in charge of that. And then we have a guy in house. So as, as a real estate company, I have a marketing team of, you know, a dozen people. Right. How do I fill my projects and you know, keep our brand relevant? All that stuff. On my other, on my core, I've been able to utilize some of those folks. But also I have a full time guy that, that does our social media, you know, and Twitter, LinkedIn. You know, the, the stuff that's relevant for me is mostly, I would say Twitter, LinkedIn and YouTube. I would say even though we post on all the stuff and then we have the KPIs and the metrics and all that kind of stuff for, for all those kinds of things. And, and then my assistant Annika kind of is our quarterback. Right. And she will eventually move to probably running the whole thing. Thing. And then we have a, a kid out of India that does our website, the kind of the back end, make sure there's nothing broken and all that kind of stuff. And I'm saying like, I know, but that's what he says. It's broken. I will fix it. Okay? And that's it.
- [44:39]
Sean Cannell
So if I'm a business owner and I don't have unlimited resources or, you know, nobody does, but I don't. I, I've got limited resources, but I want to deploy some capital. My business is doing well. What would a realistic investment be if you were coaching somebody that wanted to to do it kind of big like you are build a studio. Maybe not a crazy, maybe not spend $150,000, but you know, get the team and what are some maybe tips and advice you've learned and lessons and how they might build that team up to support them on doing YouTube.
- [45:14]
Ken McElroy
First of all, you don't need to spend that kind of money at a studio, I realize. Right. You know, for sure. You know, know that was a. I wouldn't call it a mistake as unlearning lesson.
- [45:25]
Sean Cannell
Sure.
- [45:26]
Ken McElroy
But you know, people, what I've noticed is that some of our best videos are when we're at some of my properties and you know, so you don't need a studio. So. So for me, I'm. It feels like that the more authentic you are, the more stuff you're doing out there, like if you can film things that you're actually doing out and about, those are just, just as good. And, and, but then I, I think the. What people. There's a lot of hype. So if, if, if you, if you really want to grow your audience, you just tell them the truth. Like, it's just like this is what's going on with me and you know, and that's it. And it's truthful and it's, it's not always easy for people. Some people don't like to. They think that.
- [46:17]
Sean Cannell
Well, some people have something to hide, perhaps.
- [46:19]
Ken McElroy
Yeah. And. And so I think that that's been one of the bigger things for us, you know, and, and you know, in running a business the size that I have now, it's got, like I said, we got close to 300 people. That's what I have to do anyway. I mean, I can't sit down with my cio, my coo, my cfo, my CEO and bsm. Sure. I'm like, like.
- [46:42]
Sean Cannell
Because you got real math, real investors.
- [46:44]
Ken McElroy
Yeah.
- [46:44]
Sean Cannell
That really has to work.
- [46:46]
Ken McElroy
Right. So, you know, those are the conversations we're having anyway.
- [46:49]
Sean Cannell
Sure.
- [46:49]
Ken McElroy
So, you know, now some of them. I got to be careful. Can't. You know, there, there are, there are sensitive subjects out there with personnel and things like that, but mostly there's. There's a lot you can put out there. And, and I think that if you want to clearly define who you are, talk about the stuff that's going wrong and, and you know, and, and oftentimes I think the, the community sometimes offers really, really interesting and good answers. Stuff that you maybe haven't thought about.
- [47:20]
Sean Cannell
What do you think about rev share vs salary for creative talent? Yeah.
- [47:26]
Ken McElroy
So I'm all over the map on that. And just in my business I, I always believe that if the people who are okay with Rev Share are confident in themselves. So. And the ones that aren't want the salary now. So I always start with Rev Share and then I move to salary perhaps or some kind of base. But you know, in the real estate world, my acquisitions or even in the residential side, which I don't do, but those are all eat what you kill models. I'm, I'm a big fan of that. You know, you, if you can do what you say you can grow it like that, then I'll give you a lion's share, you know, but let's, let's both win and because I find that sometimes that creates a comfort or for them. But I always reward the person who's proven themselves over a couple years on the Rev Share model. So I start with Rev Share if I can. Not always, but most of the time. And then there's some kind of always incentive based and pay them really well and then move them to salary.
- [48:34]
Sean Cannell
For some people listening to this though, it's like a. What do you think about this model? Like okay, I want to get into the YouTube game. There maybe isn't any revenue yet related to YouTube, like maybe giving up some of the ad revenue, but maybe cast some vision and say hey, like if you help me grow this, you obviously need to make a living or maybe I just pay you as a contractor because we're only shooting some videos sometimes. But if we grow this together, this could turn into something and you know, I'll give you this Rev Share. I've got one of our, our students and part of our community, Ben recently he is actually doing 50% of his ad revenue which his channel has grown so much for an individual that's helping him. It's a six figure income for this individual, but it's worth it to him because his YouTube channel also drives to other places. So I guess if you're, if you were coaching a business owner, maybe how they might cast vision, get some people enlisted but early on, like what should their mindset be if the early on their YouTube channel it might see it as a giant sunk cost that it's not growing yet, the views aren't there yet. How long do you need to invest in this thing and how might you cast some vision? I mean what are your thoughts on if maybe I was building this thing up, kind of bootstrapping it as a separate media company inside of my company.
- [49:50]
Ken McElroy
It's a really, really Insightful question. There's a few things. One, I. I don't think that a business owner that's starting has the knowledge to grow a YouTube channel at all. And. And so I just look at. I just look at my own. I'm like, okay, what's, you know, what is. What does that mean? Like, you know what I mean? Like, really basic things. So. So funny story, but Josh, who is 19, when he. When he. When he came to me, okay? And I. He came up to me, goes, your YouTube channel sucks. And I go, that's a great, you know, sales pitch. And he laughed. And. And I said, you know, tell me more. Right? And. And he said, you know, these are the things. And he just saw me. I was just doing my thing and not really paying much attention.
- [50:41]
Sean Cannell
Where did he run into you?
- [50:42]
Ken McElroy
And we were at a. I was at a Rebel Capitalist conference in Miami, and he was attending. And there's a whole story behind that on. On how he got there, which is just incredible. But what he did is he poured himself into YouTube and he apparently knew who I was, studied me, walked up to me and he said that. And I said, okay, tell me more. And so I said to him, okay, let's do this. I'll take my total views, my total revenue, actually, for the last 12 months, and that'll be the base. And I'll give you a percentage over that. That. A large percentage over that. And he's like, done. And that was how I met Josh. And it wasn't me going out and try to force something. It was him coming to me. And. And now not everyone's in a position to where that's going to happen.
- [51:33]
Sean Cannell
You already had some momentum.
- [51:34]
Ken McElroy
I did.
- [51:35]
Sean Cannell
And a brand.
- [51:36]
Ken McElroy
And a brand. Right, right. But the point was, is I didn't go out and look for this. Like, I was trying to find an assistant. Like, it. You know, it's a very unique person.
- [51:47]
Sean Cannell
Sure.
- [51:47]
Ken McElroy
That would actually be that comfortable. And he's crushed it. Like, crushed it, you know, from what he's done, from when he started. And I've learned a lot from him. And. And, you know, he's. I think he's 20. He's 22 now. Right. You know what I mean? And. But he pitched me. And to your point, I already had things. Things going, but I probably would have flatlined had I not done that. And. And he made a lot of money. We grew. And so all of those things. Things were beneficial. And. And so I guess back to the original thing. I think if somebody just wants to start a YouTube channel. I remember get trying to get on the phone with people. What do I do? What do I do? What's a hook? You know, you know, like just basic stuff. And so you have to go through that. You're way better off. You want to. You want to. You know, a hack is find somebody that is willing to do that, even if it's for a short period of time. Time. And there's nothing wrong for paying for that, in my opinion, to, to fast track stuff.
- [52:49]
Sean Cannell
Yeah.
- [52:50]
Ken McElroy
And you know, I, I think a consultant maybe would be the first line of defense. And, and then. But the. The on their side, to be fair, are they career. Is that business owner really committed? Are they really committed to cranking out content? You know, and what are they going to be like? And are they gonna, you know, are they gonna. Oh, well, it's a pain in my butt. You know, I'm, you know, is it going to be that. Because I know a lot of people try podcasts that way. And so I think it go kind of goes both ways. You know, once. What I, what I realized is when I, When I found Jerry and I. I did my. My first couple youtubes, I didn't realize that I was all in, you know, on day one.
- [53:33]
Sean Cannell
Yeah.
- [53:33]
Ken McElroy
And, and you know, now we've grown that for me, I've just been obsessive on how do I make it better.
- [53:39]
Sean Cannell
Yeah.
- [53:39]
Ken McElroy
And how do I deliver more results for. For the people watching. And, and so it, it does go both ways. You, you know, if you have something unique, a business that's unique or something that people want and that's out there, that's. Or even just a good idea, I think peop. The people in that space would. Would love to be part of that ride. It's the ones. It's kind of that brochure thing again. You know, it's, you know, what is their full commitment to it.
- [54:09]
Sean Cannell
I want to drill down actually a little bit on these roles. Jerry, Josh. But what's interesting you just said sounds like a really important insight if this thing is going to work. Yeah. You could hire talent, you could hire a team, but the main person, they got to be in on it. A lot of business owners are like, can I just hire somebody to do YouTube for me?
- [54:28]
Ken McElroy
Correct.
- [54:29]
Sean Cannell
Can I hire somebody to just do my podcast for me? When you say you, you. You learn later that you were in it.
- [54:35]
Ken McElroy
It.
- [54:36]
Sean Cannell
What does being in it mean? Yeah, means you care. You're bought in. You're actually. You're not just being fully told what to do. You're a content creator yourself.
- [54:45]
Ken McElroy
Yeah.
- [54:46]
Sean Cannell
You're. You're formulating the knowledge, and you're learning yourself. You're trusting others, but you aren't just outsourcing it. The. The claim we could be making here is it's not outsourceable fully.
- [54:59]
Ken McElroy
Right.
- [54:59]
Sean Cannell
Is that true? Hey, we're going to jump back into the conversation in just a second, but I saw a YouTube stat recently that shocked me.
- [55:05]
Ken McElroy
Me.
- [55:05]
Sean Cannell
68.8% of the people that watch and listen to the Fake Media podcast are not subscribed. So if you're loving this conversation and you want unfiltered YouTube tips for building a profitable channel, then hit the subscribe button so you never miss a future episode. Okay, let's jump back into the show.
- [55:26]
Ken McElroy
I think what happens to all entrepreneurs, like, and I'm guilty of this, I want to outsource everything thing.
- [55:32]
Sean Cannell
Sure.
- [55:33]
Ken McElroy
You know, you get to a point.
- [55:34]
Sean Cannell
Where you're like, I'm done. Like, I just. Can I just have somebody, like, fully run my Facebook ads maybe? But you still got to be in it.
- [55:41]
Ken McElroy
Correct? Yeah. And so there's still. You still got to keep your foot in. And. And that's. I've done this with my companies, too. I. I've tried this over and over and over and over and over. And. And, you know, I'm always trying to replace myself. I believe that the business is there to provide my lifestyle and give me time and freedom and be with my family and all that, not for me to be in the middle of it. And so I'm always looking for ways where I can delegate. But that comes with the price, especially if you hire wrong or you don't train correctly or that person's not committed or whatever it is. But I. At the. With this, it's different. I think. I think people, they want to hear from me. You know, I'm the one that is investing their money. And. And I can't pass that off to somebody and say Ken says, or this is what I think, because, again, it's no different than, you know, just somebody. It's just. They see it. You're just outsourcing it to somebody because you don't have the time for me. So that's the way I see it.
- [56:43]
Sean Cannell
So I bet everybody listening to this would want a Josh. They'd want a Josh archetype. What would you say his role is if there was a job title?
- [56:52]
Ken McElroy
Well, first of all, he's super. He's unemployable.
- [56:54]
Sean Cannell
I understand so. Because first of all, they're like, there's this unicorn, and. And, you know, essentially a YouTube strategist, but maybe a few other things. You know, where do I find these unicorns? But even. What even is it. What would you call it?
- [57:08]
Ken McElroy
Yeah, yeah, it's. It's a great question. And not to mention the fact that you go down a rabbit hole and then you realize it's not right. That's actually the real issue that you.
- [57:17]
Sean Cannell
Realize the individual is not a unicorn. They're. They're a tiny horse, and they were just flexing. The brochure was big. And that's true. Like, who do. Does the person really have the chop pops, the dabs?
- [57:27]
Ken McElroy
Yeah.
- [57:27]
Sean Cannell
It's like anything else.
- [57:28]
Ken McElroy
Yeah. And I. I think what. What clears all that out is that question you asked me earlier, which is the percentage of the rough share. You know, if they've got the confidence, that clears that. That. That just eliminates the playing field right there. And, you know, if you hold the line there, you will find it.
- [57:46]
Sean Cannell
So I. So back to what does Josh do? Would you say it's the packaging, it's the title, thumbnail concepts. You said you probably would have flatlined if it wasn't for essentially getting a YouTube strategist.
- [58:01]
Ken McElroy
Yeah, for sure. Right, right. You don't. Again, you don't know what. You don't know. And as great as Jerry is, and he is, you know, he only has so much capacity himself.
- [58:12]
Sean Cannell
Yeah.
- [58:13]
Ken McElroy
So. So I think you always got to be looking and. And. And, you know, how does Josh and Jerry work together? Right. And so, you know, and they work together really, really well. Josh is a consultant. He's not on my payroll. He has his own business, and I'm a client. So that. That, I think is a great relationship. But what Josh does is he sits down with me, and. And I. I. He's like, what's going on in your business? And I'm like, boom, boom, boom. This is all the stuff I'm working on. He's like, oh, my gosh. Like, okay, let's do this, let's do that. And he'll go out and do a research on something that I'm really already doing, and. And he'll. He'll take something that I don't really think is that significant, and I'll go, that's. That's. That's really interesting that I think people would really like to.
- [59:03]
Sean Cannell
And turn it into an angle.
- [59:04]
Ken McElroy
Yeah.
- [59:05]
Sean Cannell
Turn it into a video.
- [59:06]
Ken McElroy
Yeah.
- [59:06]
Sean Cannell
So after a conversation.
- [59:07]
Ken McElroy
After a conversation with me. Yeah.
- [59:10]
Sean Cannell
And so this is interesting, too, because I think The. Maybe the myth some people believe would be, why can't Jerry, doing the videography, the editing he's shooting, he's doing all this stuff. Well, why can't he just, you know, do everything? But there's different skill sets.
- [59:24]
Ken McElroy
Yeah.
- [59:25]
Sean Cannell
And there's different, like you said, bandwidth and capacity. And so this. This YouTube strategist position is a particular set of skills different than videography. These are all different skill sets. And am I tracking.
- [59:40]
Ken McElroy
Yeah, 100. Right. And then I think if you're really managing this, then that evolves as well.
- [59:48]
Sean Cannell
Yeah.
- [59:48]
Ken McElroy
If you're really looking at your KPIs or your analytics, and. Which I wasn't in the beginning, but now I'm. I'm seeing you. Oh, okay. Yeah, I get it here. So. So. So now that's what Josh brought. He's like, there's a drop off on this video. We need to do this. You know, so all the stuff that Jerry and I didn't see before, and now Jerry knows, which is awesome.
- [60:12]
Sean Cannell
Which levels up the whole team.
- [60:13]
Ken McElroy
Absolutely. Yeah.
- [60:14]
Sean Cannell
A consultant, you get coaching, you get strategy, might be temporary, because everybody absorbing that information, maybe somebody internally, is developed by that individual.
- [60:23]
Ken McElroy
Yes. Right. Yeah. So the whole team gets better. And Josh has definitely made our whole team better at the way he views things, the way he views thumbnails or titles, even. You know, in the beginning, Jerry was filming, he was editing, he was doing the titles, he's doing the thumbnails. Right. And we actually did very well. I'm very, very, very pleased with what Jerry did.
- [60:44]
Sean Cannell
Yeah.
- [60:45]
Ken McElroy
But now Josh brings a different perspective, and the whole team's getting a little bit better, even on our podcast titles and those kinds of things.
- [60:52]
Sean Cannell
I want to talk about what you've learned working with a co host who is also your wife.
- [60:56]
Ken McElroy
Yeah.
- [60:57]
Sean Cannell
But one final question. Was Jerry the first person you reached out to on Craigslist?
- [61:02]
Ken McElroy
Yeah.
- [61:03]
Sean Cannell
So do you feel you got lucky? Kind of.
- [61:05]
Ken McElroy
Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
- [61:06]
Sean Cannell
Because as I feel like, you know, almost 100% of business owners wish they could go on the Internet and find. We call them a shredder. A producer, shooter, editor. Yeah, that's local. Like, my gosh, if I could go on Craigslist, find somebody that could come to me or film and that could do. He. Jerry. You know, like you said, he actually was doing titles and thumbnails and all that stuff, and he was the whole genesis of your channel.
- [61:30]
Ken McElroy
Channel.
- [61:31]
Sean Cannell
But sometimes you have to kiss a few frogs before you meet a prince.
- [61:34]
Ken McElroy
Yeah.
- [61:35]
Sean Cannell
And you got lucky, though. You got the. The first person you reached out to on Craigslist, I guess. Final thoughts there, because maybe the perseverance it would take. Or in 20, 25, you know, a business owner's like, okay, is it worth. Is it worth it to find a Jerry?
- [61:50]
Ken McElroy
Well, okay, so I'll tell you exactly how that process worked. Jerry's, by the way, is in his 50s, and he's an ex banker. Banker.
- [61:58]
Sean Cannell
Okay.
- [61:59]
Ken McElroy
And he. He's like, I'm tired of the bank. The banking business is, you know, consolidating. And he's like, I'm gonna start my own thing. So he started his own thing as camp shooting photography and videos and things like that. So he did not understand social media, did not understand YouTube, did not understand any of that stuff.
- [62:16]
Sean Cannell
Got it.
- [62:16]
Ken McElroy
I was interviewing because I get. I didn't know better. I was. And I. I think we had four different interviews. Four different people applied for the position, and I picked Jerry.
- [62:27]
Sean Cannell
Okay, so you had four applications for a video position?
- [62:30]
Ken McElroy
I actually had more than that, but we actually. I actually spoke with four people. Then I picked Jerry. And then from there, we learned together. So he did not. He's, you know, he's in his 50s. Right. He's. He didn't grow up with social media and all this stuff either, just like me. So, you know, so we were learning together, you know, buying books, you know, like Mr. Beast book, and studying that book and going through the chapters and like, okay, let's try this. Let's try this. Going on YouTube videos. And so Jerry became obsessive with trying to be better. And so he's developed into that and. And.
- [63:03]
Sean Cannell
Okay.
- [63:04]
Ken McElroy
Powerful. Yeah.
- [63:05]
Sean Cannell
One other thought about this. How important is chemistry when it comes to getting a team member like that? What I mean is, man, if they're going to be in the studio with you, filming with you, and it could be in any role, but when it comes to the person's vibe, it's everything.
- [63:21]
Ken McElroy
You know, I mean, we're like like brother and sister or two brothers. I guess that's how we argue all the time. Yeah. And in a good way. Right. Respectfully. Right. And. And he's got his opinions, I've got my opinions, and we both respect each other's positions. And, you know, 80% of the time, it's perfect. But, you know, And. And I love it, because the last thing you need is a yes person ever. But you have to have the vibe. You have to have the chemistry. He's incredibly loyal, you know, and in the beginning, as you can imagine, it wasn't that Great of a channel. And. And so, you know, he's watched it grow.
- [64:00]
Sean Cannell
So timeline. I love this story because you meet Jerry, you. You actually do go through kind of a interview process. You narrow it down to four. You find the right individual and you grow with them. Realistic expectations, you earn the benefit of being in the pandemic. People were locked down, they're watching stuff. But nevertheless, you had a growth curve. And so this investment into YouTube was certainly not overnight. You've got crazy, almost 500, 000 subscribers now. I mean, future is bright. This thing is just going to continue to grow. But this was, what would you say, just like any other business, too, if you're going to commit the capital, the mindset, maybe the team, there's a lot. There's risk.
- [64:42]
Ken McElroy
That's.
- [64:43]
Sean Cannell
Risk is in the definition of entrepreneur. No guarantee it's going to work out, but if you also don't give it an adequate effort, then you can't judge yourself for failing because you're like, I always kind of dabbled at it. And you, like, tried for two weeks. What do you think is a range of, if a business was going to put some money time team into a real serious YouTube strategy, how much time they should commit?
- [65:04]
Ken McElroy
I will say that I first think you really have to have a really hard conversation with yourself about whether or not your product is good. Like, you know, I know that's kind of harsh, but.
- [65:16]
Sean Cannell
Sure.
- [65:17]
Ken McElroy
But the reality is, is everybody thinks like, you know, I'll just pick on realtors. Right? Everybody thinks that what, you know, realtors all think what they do is unique, right? Okay, well, there's a thousand of them doing the same kind of stuff. Okay, now, not saying they're not good, but the point is it's a pretty crowded space and how do you differentiate yourself? So I think you got to start there because if you. If you're trying to, you know, run alongside of all these things, then you're, you know, the noise is there and it's hard. So you really have to. I think.
- [65:50]
Sean Cannell
So people skip to marketing. You're actually saying, let's start. What's your usp? What's your unique selling position? What's what. What are you bringing fresh to the online space, the education space, YouTube space?
- [66:02]
Ken McElroy
It's different.
- [66:03]
Sean Cannell
Strategic conversation first.
- [66:04]
Ken McElroy
Okay, yes. And then. And then I think it gets really exc. Exciting because if you know it, like, ever, there is always something. And, you know, for me, it was, you know, fly on the wall. Like, how can people see what's really going on in the boardroom, you know, on these big deals and, you know, how are we really structuring them and how, you know, how's the money being?
- [66:28]
Sean Cannell
Which is super unique.
- [66:29]
Ken McElroy
Correct. Very unique at the level you're playing.
- [66:32]
Sean Cannell
So you think about. And. And would you say listeners, there maybe are some unique angles. They don't realize it. Like, what. What is it about your life, your business, the behind the scenes, bring the camera to the authentic place you're kind of digging in. But, like, you got to find out something fresh to bring to it.
- [66:48]
Ken McElroy
Right? That I think is first of all, first and foremost. And then I really believe, because you're gonna. You're gonna accelerate at a faster rate with something like that, you know, people are going, oh, this is. This is something I didn't know about. This is something that I'm going to follow this person. You. You know, I. A great example is, you know, all the online supplements or all the online workouts and, you know, like, you know what I mean? So really crowded.
- [67:16]
Sean Cannell
Hard space can be crowded.
- [67:17]
Ken McElroy
Very difficult. Right? So. So, you know, what is it that is really, really super unique. Right? And, you know, and I think that their real estate is the same team. So what is it? And that. That, I think, is the number one thing. And then I. I believe it's much easier to build a team around that.
- [67:37]
Sean Cannell
How long did it take you, if you, like, when you think about the time and money, we know you spent $150,000 on the studio. You didn't need to spend that. But you. What was your mindset as far as investing? You said it took some time. Took some time for Jerry to learn.
- [67:50]
Ken McElroy
Yeah, yeah.
- [67:51]
Sean Cannell
It's months.
- [67:53]
Ken McElroy
Oh, years. Years, for sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And every year, like when. I'll just tell you some of the numbers. Like in the first couple years during the pandemic, you know, right out of the gate, we were doing like over 30, 000amonth on YouTube in revenue. Yeah. I was like, this is awesome.
- [68:10]
Sean Cannell
So timing helped because everyone's locked down. They're watching.
- [68:13]
Ken McElroy
I thought, oh, this is normal.
- [68:16]
Sean Cannell
Oh. But then it went down.
- [68:17]
Ken McElroy
Oh. To Ted.
- [68:18]
Sean Cannell
Okay.
- [68:18]
Ken McElroy
Yeah. I was like, oh, okay. So all of a sudden I was like, oh, this is good. This is lock and leave.
- [68:24]
Sean Cannell
Yeah. No.
- [68:26]
Ken McElroy
So all of a sudden, that went all the way down to 10. And I was like, okay. And I had kind of put a team together. I was like, okay. So all of a sudden we had all this cash paying people. It was great. And. And I was like, doing my thing. And then I was, oh, this is going the other way now. Which YouTube can give and it can also take. And so all of a sudden I was like, okay, I have to figure this out. Out. And that's when I started figuring it out. And I was like, okay, the, the videos are, you know, too long, they're this or that, they're not edited well, all that stuff and then start going back up again. And so it was a really good lesson. It, it came too easy. Then it went away and, and I was like, okay, just, by the way, that's how business is. Like, that's how my business is. That's all my businesses are. Sure, yeah. So it was, it was, it was, was, it was, it was good. And then it was even better because when it's going the other way, that's when you learn.
- [69:17]
Sean Cannell
So we got to talk about co hosting with your wife, but I have one other question. I want to close the loop. Early on you said YouTube pays for itself. Essentially this team you're talking about, the investment in YouTube is, is self liquidating. It covers cost. You and, and do you treat it as its own business within your business?
- [69:39]
Ken McElroy
Yeah.
- [69:39]
Sean Cannell
Did you set it up?
- [69:40]
Ken McElroy
I set it up that way, 100% that set it up as its own LLC.
- [69:44]
Sean Cannell
Interesting.
- [69:45]
Ken McElroy
And we just signed a big contract, you know, advertiser.
- [69:50]
Sean Cannell
What is all in that LLC? Just the YouTube channel or essentially like the education brand side of things.
- [69:55]
Ken McElroy
So yeah, so I have a, it's called Ken MacRoy.com and it's just an LLC. And all the, you know, we get the, the podcast revenue, the YouTube revenue, the app sponsor revenue or anything like that all dumps into there, there. The stuff from our Ken Pro subscriptions, it all dumps into there. And then we run a P and L just like anything else. So we have, you know, the. Josh is, you know, what do we pay Josh, what do you pay Jerry, what do you pay Steve? All that stuff is all on there.
- [70:23]
Sean Cannell
Got it. So you've got construction company, you've got the real estate deals, you've got these different entities. You started a, essentially a media company entity.
- [70:33]
Ken McElroy
Yeah.
- [70:34]
Sean Cannell
So if you were like a roofing company doing 10 million a year and the Pacific Northwest where we're recording this and you wanted to then go into this media play. One way of thinking about it would be, okay, I'm going to set up an llc and, and if they were maybe to do something similar to you, eventually it's going to be maybe a mastermind and maybe events and, and then the YouTube revenue the podcast sponsorship, the way you looked at it was I'm. I'm starting immediate. Is it. Would you call it a media company? Would you call it a personal brand?
- [71:06]
Ken McElroy
I would, I would call it a media company now. A couple reasons why. One, I dumped all my book revenue in there.
- [71:12]
Sean Cannell
Okay.
- [71:13]
Ken McElroy
To also seed it. Right. Because, you know, the books are. We're. I have my own publishing company.
- [71:18]
Sean Cannell
Where was it going before the publishing? Well, yeah, I mean, because it was nice to have the book revenue and to seed it.
- [71:24]
Ken McElroy
Yeah.
- [71:25]
Sean Cannell
Was it a different entity or was it.
- [71:26]
Ken McElroy
Was. It was in Kenmore.com but it was a company called KM Press.
- [71:31]
Sean Cannell
Yeah.
- [71:31]
Ken McElroy
So I just, I, you know, there's the publisher and then there's the author.
- [71:36]
Sean Cannell
Sure.
- [71:36]
Ken McElroy
I'm both. Both.
- [71:37]
Sean Cannell
Okay.
- [71:37]
Ken McElroy
But I also have books, other people's books that I publish. So. So I was dumping the Author revenue into KenMcEroy.com and then I also put Limitless into there. So, yeah. The event. Right. And so, so it was more than had, you know, had more enough capital to kind of pay for itself. And, and so that, that's how I funded that.
- [72:01]
Sean Cannell
Okay. Loving this conversation. This is a whole nother level of tactics and detail. You co host with your wife.
- [72:08]
Ken McElroy
Yeah.
- [72:08]
Sean Cannell
And you talked about early on, it sounds like both of you were already maybe ready to jump on camera. But you also had a learning curve. You went to comedy classes together.
- [72:19]
Ken McElroy
Yeah.
- [72:20]
Sean Cannell
And was this her ambition to be on camera with you? Was it a tough learning curve? When did it start? I need to hear the details.
- [72:28]
Ken McElroy
She for sure did not want to be.
- [72:30]
Sean Cannell
Okay.
- [72:31]
Ken McElroy
Yeah.
- [72:32]
Sean Cannell
Was it your idea?
- [72:33]
Ken McElroy
You. Yeah, well, it was kind of both. So. So here's what was happening. I was getting criticized by being too high level.
- [72:41]
Sean Cannell
Okay.
- [72:42]
Ken McElroy
I've, you know, I started small like most people, but I don't talk that I'm doing. I talk about what I'm working on. So people, people are like, I can't.
- [72:51]
Sean Cannell
Wrap my head around $53 million multi family deal. I'm trying to start real estate.
- [72:56]
Ken McElroy
Right. So. So I had that issue issue again, listening to the customers. Right. And that's the majority of them.
- [73:03]
Sean Cannell
Totally.
- [73:04]
Ken McElroy
The majority of the customers are not tracking with me. So that was an issue that we had at the channel. Whereas my wife, she's knocking down these little deals and putting renters in there. And. And the other thing that was pretty interesting is that she, the way she was raised, which is amazing. Her, her, her parents taught her, don't have any debt. Right. And I'm like, no, you need Debt. Sure. And so I was, so we have this different opinion.
- [73:34]
Sean Cannell
How much debt do you have on debt?
- [73:35]
Ken McElroy
Oh, gosh, 6 or 700 million. Probably easy. Probably.
- [73:40]
Sean Cannell
Maybe even a little learning curve for it. She was taught, no debt. You're like, we got 700 million.
- [73:45]
Ken McElroy
She's like, no, not me. Yeah, you. So, so, so anyway, she was buying these single families and, and she doesn't have any debt on them.
- [73:55]
Sean Cannell
Yeah.
- [73:55]
Ken McElroy
So she would pay them off. And I was like, why don't you put some debt on that? No, no, no. So we would have these little, you know, little discussions, I guess. And, and I said, you know, like, it's really. She, like, she has like, the Dave Ramsey approach, you know, which is, you know, stay out of debt.
- [74:11]
Sean Cannell
Totally. And even in real estate, 100.
- [74:15]
Ken McElroy
And, and, and I don't always agree with him. And, and, and, you know, for various reasons, but I, I, I think that the right amount of debt is because my tenants pay it off.
- [74:25]
Sean Cannell
Yeah.
- [74:25]
Ken McElroy
Not me. So, yes, I don't want to be in debt. I don't want to be in credit card debt or, you know, my automobiles or anything like that. But for something that's an asset, that's, you know, anyway. But she still doesn't want any debt. So, so I was like, we need to, you know, talk about this. So first started that way and, and she, you know, she's out looking at stuff like she's doing, doing small deals, that, and finding renters. She's in the property management world, so she's got these great stories. The property management side, she's doing some Airbnb stuff and, and, you know, so she's, she's got a real estate license and so she's boots on the ground, Main street, looking at MLS and, and very different from what I do. And so we would circle back.
- [75:09]
Sean Cannell
When did that start?
- [75:10]
Ken McElroy
Well, she's always done that before.
- [75:14]
Sean Cannell
When did the co hosting start?
- [75:15]
Ken McElroy
Oh, gosh, maybe four years ago.
- [75:19]
Sean Cannell
So three. Four years you've been doing this? About five years. She got in?
- [75:22]
Ken McElroy
Yeah.
- [75:22]
Sean Cannell
One year.
- [75:23]
Ken McElroy
About a year. Yeah. A year, year and a half later.
- [75:25]
Sean Cannell
How was it? First couple episodes. Rough or smooth?
- [75:28]
Ken McElroy
No, it was really smooth because we had already had the convos. Right. So I, I'm like, it's actually interesting. Like, we'll, we'll go home. And she's like, oh, I'm doing this. I'm. And you know, I'm like, you know, you know, she just can't, can't wrap her head around the stuff I'm working on and and well, she can, she understands it. But so mostly it was about me talking about her stuff and, and I go. And so she came on, it was, she's pretty natural and it was really, really, really, really good. She's also the a student in our family. I am not. And so that was really, really good. So she comes to these very prepared. Like, you know the podcast structure. Oh, very much.
- [76:10]
Sean Cannell
Is that the main story? So, so you do your own solo videos, but essentially is the co host thing, the podcast?
- [76:16]
Ken McElroy
Yeah, we do that live and then every once in a while, you know, we'll do some other stuff together. But you know, like, she does, it's really been fun and she, she's pouring herself into this because she owns a bunch of real estate now, free and clear, has her own tenants, her own income and all that stuff aside of me. And I think that's really appealing for married couples where she's got her own thing, her own llc, she's got her own money coming in. And, and so I, that's been well received as well.
- [76:46]
Sean Cannell
Do you recommend couples working together?
- [76:52]
Ken McElroy
Depends. You know, I, I, I was married before and my wife was raised our kids incredibly, but did not know or care really, or didn't even ask questions about what we were saying, doing ever. And so, you know, well, she didn't.
- [77:11]
Sean Cannell
Even have the desire.
- [77:11]
Ken McElroy
Correct. Right, right. Which is fine. Like, I mean that sincerely, like, but we, we could not have been more different. And, and so, you know, she was doing a bang up job raising the kids and I was doing a bang up job growing my business. But you know, oftentimes that just wasn't, you know, the flow wasn't there, you know, on, on whatever it is that, you know, each of you do that day. Right. Whereas Danielle and I, we've been together for almost 10 years. It's very different. You know, she's out doing her thing, I'm out doing her thing. And so there's some synergy, quite a bit actually, in, in what we're, you know, you know, you know, she's literally, I'll tell you the funniest question. We were in the office the other day and Jerry, I, I go, when does the Fed meet? She goes, June 17th and 18th. And Jerry's like, you guys are a mess. He goes, that's your conversation. And I go, yeah, it kind of is, you know, like, like we're both looking at those kinds of things.
- [78:10]
Sean Cannell
Yeah.
- [78:10]
Ken McElroy
And, and it's so there's a lot of synergy there.
- [78:13]
Sean Cannell
And assuming the person does have the Desire. If you're given a friend some wisdom about how intertwined they want to be in business with a spouse, what kind of maybe prompting questions would you ask? Yeah, are you a business owner or serious content creator that is struggling to crack the YouTube code? Are you feeling stuck, stuck, overwhelmed, or just plain frustrated with slow growth? If so, then our new one on one coaching program@viralvideocoach.com is your premier ticket to YouTube success, becoming the authority in your niche, attracting engaged leads and loyal customers. We offer one to one coaching with our YouTube experts that'll help you get results, results fast and a supportive community that's cheering you on. So if you're ready to stop wasting time with trial and error and to stop leaving money on the table, then head to viralvideocoach.com to apply to see if you qualify for our coaching program. But heads up, this offer is not for everybody. It's only for serious content creators and entrepreneurs that are ready to take action. So if that's you, head to viral video coach.com to apply or click the link in the show notes. All right, let's jump back into the episode.
- [79:30]
Ken McElroy
I think a lot of times, you know, I always do this with partnerships, not necessarily just spouses.
- [79:35]
Sean Cannell
Sure. You know, like what basically, I mean, in the same, it's not quite this deep of a level, but like business partnerships are.
- [79:42]
Ken McElroy
Right. Like I have a partner. A business partner. Yeah, Ross, he, he does construction, hip debt. I, you know, I work on acquisitions and, and equity and, and property management and the operations and, and we communicate a lot. So he's crushing it. I'm crushing it. We get together, we talk frequently and you text and talk almost every day. So it has to do every partnership that I've ever seen. Now it doesn't matter if it's husband, wife, or two business partners. It's always that one person feels like they're pulling more weight than the other. Doesn't matter who, like, it doesn't matter if it's a woman, doesn't matter if it's a guy, doesn't matter the age. And so that is primarily the issue. And so the question is, you know, if they're, if they're not aligned or they do the exact same thing, it's probably not a good partnership. So they, they, and they really have to communicate about this, you know, because I find that what happens is like, I've just, I've had so many businesses over the years. There are some partners that look at that company as the paycheck. There are Others that look at it as money for growth, just that issue is going to crush a partnership, you know, because you have one that wants to pull money out, the other wants to keep money in. Doesn't matter, you know, their age or their gender. Just so you have all these things I think that you got to be aligned on from a partnership standpoint point.
- [81:18]
Sean Cannell
You think people rush into them too much?
- [81:19]
Ken McElroy
Oh, yeah, without a doubt. Yeah, all the time. You know, they do it like haphazardly and it's you, you know, and I'll tell you. So I had my own business and Ross, my partner, has his own business, and I was looking to expand, and he was looking to expand. He had a construction company and a construction license. He's a general contractor. And I was like, one of the things I need is a general contractor's license and understand how to build a property. Apartments, because I build apartments too. So we have about 150 million under construction right now. And so that was part of that strategy now. And so when we met, I was like, okay, he brings us construction and development piece that I don't know how to do. And, you know, so. So I think when you, when you blend into a partnership, you. You have to look at things, how do they benefit it, the whatever it is you're going to do? And do they bring a different perspective? Like my wife, who brings that, like, again, I had this big gap for, I thought, the majority of the audience. And she resonates not only with the women, but just the. Anybody who's doing that single family stuff.
- [82:28]
Sean Cannell
So the power in this case, you've learned, working with a co host is there was already that dynamic that you guys had. There was the desire there, it started naturally, but also the power.
- [82:40]
Ken McElroy
Power.
- [82:40]
Sean Cannell
Also having the man's perspective, the woman's perspective, two different energies make the show more interesting. And. And then also the two different levels. So does she to this day sometimes say, like, oh, can you explain that a little bit or break it down?
- [82:53]
Ken McElroy
Because it's way better.
- [82:55]
Sean Cannell
She's fighting for the audience.
- [82:56]
Ken McElroy
Yes.
- [82:57]
Sean Cannell
Where you're. You're talking up here and then she pulls the info down.
- [83:00]
Ken McElroy
Absolutely. And that's. That is the beauty of it. Right. Because, you know, and also I give her the permission to do that. Not, not that she needs it, trust me. But what my point is, is what I'm saying is I don't get frustrated with that question because I don't even realize I'm doing it. I'm talking about capitalization rates or internal rates of return or whatever it is. And it's like. And she's like, whoa, walk me through that. It's so good, you know, and, and so, yeah, that's what, that's what she does. And, and she has a really, really, really good way of, of, you know, bantering with me too, you know, so fun.
- [83:39]
Sean Cannell
I've got a couple final questions. I think these would be like some of the juiciest questions that we will talk about. But before we get there, I want you to give a call out to some of your stuff. We'll link it in the show notes. But if people want some of your resources and then tell us more about the event.
- [83:55]
Ken McElroy
Yeah, so Kenmacro.com is the place to go for everything, right? Everything's on there. You can find our company, all my stuff that I'm doing. The, the big event we have is called Limitless. It's called limitless expo.com. so what I did was I, I was like, we need a venue with all these different experts to be able to say what's up. Right? Real, real, real people. Not necessarily speakers, not big name speakers. These are people that are really doing stuff. And, and so we have like a manufacturing panel, we have a crypto panel, we have a gold and silver panel, we have a water panel, we have somebody talking about timber, self storage, you know, everything. And, and it's super vetted, embedded. And, and so I'm actually going out and trying to find all these folks that can really talk about these kinds of things. And a lot of times they don't have books, they don't have big followings or anything like that, but they're really doing cool stuff. So that's what Limitless is. And it's really, really, really grown.
- [84:48]
Sean Cannell
Can anybody attend? Yeah, you said it's mostly accredited investors though.
- [84:53]
Ken McElroy
That's where it's headed. It's interesting. It's not really a beginner. So we don't really say this is how you buy your first, first this or buy your first that. There's a lot of people that do go that are, are looking. I would say it's, it's a, we get a lot of people that are making a lot of money somehow they're paying a lot of tax and they're crushing it in business and they're trying to figure out how do I legally keep more, you know, a lot of professionals, you know, doctors, lawyers, that kind of stuff. And, and so, yes, and it, it's, it was, it's really. Last year we did a whole thing on Health. And I got RFK Jr. To come. Yeah. And I, I interviewed him in front of a couple thousand people and, and all we did was talk about this is before, you know he actually, I got him before he was appointed by Trump or any of that. And, and it was just, we just talked about health, you know, the COVID vaccine. And now he's got his own views. I don't agree with all of them is, you know, it's different. It's not, it wasn't a real estate conversation.
- [86:01]
Sean Cannell
Yeah.
- [86:01]
Ken McElroy
It was about cyber security and those, those kinds of things.
- [86:04]
Sean Cannell
Interesting. So. And where is it?
- [86:06]
Ken McElroy
It's in Dallas, Texas at the gaylord. It's limitless expo.com.
- [86:11]
Sean Cannell
Okay, great. We'll link that in the show notes as well. And then of course. And then also the networking. So this is a different kind of room of people that, yeah, that, that.
- [86:18]
Ken McElroy
That'S what a lot of people go for. So we have like the sponsors are paying big money now because of the following. Because it's so been so fruit the.
- [86:29]
Sean Cannell
Type of people there they want to get in that room. Yep, that makes a lot of sense. Okay, as we land the plane, what is one belief about YouTube that you had five years ago that you no longer believe now?
- [86:41]
Ken McElroy
A belief around YouTube that I had that I don't have now. I, I don't think it's as difficult as I first thought. In other words, when I, for example, if I, for me in the beginning it was like, like trying to learn like Chinese or any kind of a foreign language and you know, as you, as you know and I do, you know, I try to learn all I can. Once you start to just put one foot out and the next one out, I think the most people can figure this out with you know, some books like you guys have written online there. There's these little, little, little things that next thing you know, you know, in six months to a year you're, you'll be as good as anybody.
- [87:23]
Sean Cannell
I love that. And then how about an overlooked piece of advice that you wish every business owner knew about investing in content creation.
- [87:31]
Ken McElroy
I would say that the, what you don't see do the opposite of what people are doing, you know. And I, I mean well there's the, the people. The organic way to grow is non flashy and being super authentic and telling the truth and tell them where all the bones are buried or whatever you want to call it. That takes risk. A lot of people don't see that. But that's actually I think what everybody wants because the Crowded space is all the hype. So it's the opposite. And so some of the stuff that gets the, you know, one of the things I, drives me nuts is, you know, I was looking at this a B testing with Eric sue the other day. He sent me this thing. It was super cool. It's like the exact same topic, 1, 1 positive, 1 negative. And the negative had like two or three times more. And I just shakes my head. It just drives me nuts that people gravitate toward that. But they do. And so all that really means is that if you can come out with that stuff, stuff and it's truthful, you'll crush it.
- [88:43]
Sean Cannell
So you're talking about a, maybe a doom and gloom. Especially in real estate and finance. People will do the doom and gloom negative angle and people will do the positive angle and you could call it clickbait. And the negative one gets 3 to 4 to 5x more views.
- [88:59]
Ken McElroy
It drives me nuts.
- [89:00]
Sean Cannell
But your point is if the negative one is true, then you're being honest.
- [89:06]
Ken McElroy
Correct.
- [89:06]
Sean Cannell
But, but if you're just baiting views and that becomes your brand, be careful.
- [89:13]
Ken McElroy
And there's people out there that have done that.
- [89:15]
Sean Cannell
Yeah.
- [89:15]
Ken McElroy
They're like, okay, I mean how, how many crashes are you really going to predict? Right.
- [89:20]
Sean Cannell
Like my friend, my friend Michael Zuber from One Rental at a Time says he calls them doomers.
- [89:26]
Ken McElroy
Yeah.
- [89:26]
Sean Cannell
It's a whole category.
- [89:27]
Ken McElroy
Yeah.
- [89:27]
Sean Cannell
In real estate.
- [89:28]
Ken McElroy
Yeah.
- [89:28]
Sean Cannell
Like they might not even be investing in real estate, but they make a lot of money off YouTube ad revenue. I mean, relatively. Because they can get so many views off.
- [89:35]
Ken McElroy
Yeah.
- [89:36]
Sean Cannell
Off doom.
- [89:36]
Ken McElroy
Yeah. Yeah. And I, I, you know, that's, that's just the wrong, I, I think that' wrong way to do YouTube, period.
- [89:43]
Sean Cannell
Yeah.
- [89:44]
Ken McElroy
Because it's just not truthful, it's not authentic. And, and they're doing it just to, you know, pay their bills, you know, if you can. And by the way, there's plenty of stuff that goes down in business. Right. There's plenty to discuss.
- [89:59]
Sean Cannell
Sure.
- [89:59]
Ken McElroy
So that's, that's what I would do.
- [90:01]
Sean Cannell
Okay, last question that I, with the blessing of having you here and I wanted to just thank you so much for all the wisdom and taking the time to come to the studio here. The personal question that people could be a fly on a wall and listen to. We're about to celebrate our 10 year anniversary in October of this year. For our company, there was five years before when it was just a side hustle YouTube channel. But that's basically 10 years of getting serious as an entrepreneur. Starting a business around 25W, two employees, probably 10 more contractors, and on our way to eight figures a year of top line revenue. I'm curious. I am 41. I'll turn 42 this year. What advice do you have for me at this season in my journey at the ten year. Sure. Coming up to ten years of business. 42 to you could might say if I knew then what I know now, maybe how I'm navigating red flags to avoid things that I might not be able to see. Just taking the unique opportunity to get this with you here and you know, seek wisdom.
- [91:15]
Ken McElroy
Well, I just celebrated a couple years ago, 20 okay. With my partner. We had a huge event around it and we're, you know, a couple years, we got our 20, 25. And I think what I've found is that my experience has been that everyone is good. Like every employee, every vendor. I believe that. And I think there's value in everyone. And what happens is as busy business owner, sometimes we don't take the times. People learn at different stages. They, they learn at different speeds. And so I think for us, one of the things that has been extremely successful, you know, people talk about, you know, getting promoted and all that kind of stuff, which is great, but one of the mistakes that you can make is, and we made this is we promoted people that had been with us from day one into positions that they ended up not being great, great at. And I know this is the opposite again, but you know, and, and not that we, not that we let those people go, but what happens is, I think a lot of times as people want the vision and they want to grow and we, we promoted people because it was easier. Oh, this person. And so what happens is you load up your really good folks with things and then they don't do a good job job and, or you move them to something that like, like water off a duck's back. Oh, I got this. And they're crushing it. And then you move them over here and then, then they're, you know, then their energy is lower and all that kind of stuff. And, and I'll, and I'll give you one example. We, we did a company event where we had a, we had a girl that was with us for eight or nine years and her supervisor came over to me and he's like, hey, this girl, she's not doing such a good job. And I looked at him and I go, what changed? Like, like she's been amazing. Well, but you know, he has list, right? And, and I looked at her and her energy was low and all that kind of stuff. Anyway, so I was on stage and we had this lady come in and we were talking to the group. There's about 100 people in there. And she stood up and about something else. And I go, so, what's going on with you? Like, and she just started crying. She's like, my mom's, you know, got cancer and I had to move and I, you know, I'm driving, like, you know, 75 minutes every day here and there. She had this whole. Everything just kind of came out, right. The whole room obviously lost it, and that was it. Like, you know. And so what happens is, like, people have real stuff going on. And so as a business owner, sometimes you don't consider all of those things.
- [94:12]
Sean Cannell
So as we land the plane, I just want to make sure I understand you. On the one hand, it sounds like your answer to my question is people that, like, what think it. At 10 years in, people think about people. Part of it. Think about really caring for your people and staying connected to them. And that also through the ups and downs of seasons, they might be going through stuff with family, different issues, and they grow at different rates, and you want to grow with them. But also, as it pertains to people, be careful how you promote or if they're in a particular area. And am I hearing that the, the. Maybe the mistake is that in some cases let them continue to crush it in their area or be at this level in the company, but you maybe need to bring somebody else. It's easier to promote somebody, but you need to maybe think bigger, higher externally, because if you're going to go to that next level, maybe some of the people that got you here can't get you there.
- [95:05]
Ken McElroy
Well, and the other thing. And I'll just end with two other things. One is when you bring somebody new into a company that's, you know, crushing it. Like you guys are at 10 years, they come in with this fire in their belly. Right. That some of the other people that have been out like this the whole time don't necessarily have, by the way, not bad. Just is. And so all of a sudden that, that can be good, you know. Yeah. And then the, the last piece is, I think, is, you know, every piece of business, every piece need. You need to focus on margin. So, you know, I always, I always laugh when somebody says, I go, well, we're not making any money. Well, we'll just, we'll make it up in volume. Well, no, we won't. Like, volume doesn't help if there's no margin there. And so the margin is really important. So when you, when you, when you're looking at venturing forward in something, what's the actual return? Because there's time, which of course we don't necessarily always value ourselves. I wish we did, but we don't. You know, but then there's the money. And, and so I think those are really, really important things. And, and once you hand the keys to the kingdom over to the staff, it doesn't always go the way you think, because they don't always look at the business like you. They don't always say, well, how much was that staple? Are. Right. They're like, we need 10 staplers.
- [96:29]
Sean Cannell
So cost can drift.
- [96:30]
Ken McElroy
Yeah.
- [96:30]
Sean Cannell
The way they steward the money can drift.
- [96:32]
Ken McElroy
It does drift. And, and it's, it's just part of human nature. It's not right or wrong. It's just, again, it's kind of like the YouTube channel. Right. You can't back away and just expect, you know, so, so I, I, I make, I make a joke, you know, with AI, for example, I go, I have a really good friend that's in ypo that has 160 people. He's a PR and ad agency out of LA LA. And he's like, I, I got from 160 to 110 people because of AI. I'm like, oh, that's good. I, I think I, we must have hired all those people, you know, because everybody in my company's hiring content writers and all this stuff. But by the way, I'm not saying we shouldn't have them. Sure. But I'm saying that, you know, so, so what happens is in an older company like mine, things like accounting and marketing and HR and all that stuff, that's really, if I was to start that business today, it'd be very, very different. Right. With all the systems that you have.
- [97:28]
Sean Cannell
Sure. And so AI might make some positions like, it's so disruptive.
- [97:32]
Ken McElroy
Correct.
- [97:33]
Sean Cannell
But your company has grown and organizations drift towards bloat.
- [97:36]
Ken McElroy
Yes.
- [97:37]
Sean Cannell
And they drift towards complexity.
- [97:39]
Ken McElroy
And they always, they already feel like they're at a capacity. Right. Everyone in your business feels like they're a capacity. So how much time do they really have to go, how do I make my job more efficient? And you know, is it really aligned with them? Not normally. So it needs to come from the leadership. And, and so that's been a big one too, is there needs to be somebody in the visionary role that is saying, hey, you know this, we're not hitting Margins here and you know, why do we need all this excess? Is there a better way? Is there a more efficient way? And you know, and I think everyone kind of went through this last 10 years of buying software, you know, that would, you know, save the 20, 30%, you know, and all they really did is just buy a lot of software. But I think this next chapter is different with AI.
- [98:29]
Sean Cannell
I mean this is kind of common on our events and our podcast. I'll say we're landing the plane and people are like, how long is this taking? You know, I'm like, well we're taxing to the, you know, gate right now. You'll be off the plane soon. But one final topic you brought up AI and that, that's, that's a big deal. You're bringing it up. It's changing Huge.
- [98:49]
Ken McElroy
Huge.
- [98:49]
Sean Cannell
What, what's your take? You especially if we're thinking about, I'm thinking about our 10 year anniversary. You're coming up on 25 in business and there's people that are just starting right now. But it's an entirely different landscape. What is your take on AI? The impact on the workforce, the content creator, the investor.
- [99:07]
Ken McElroy
I think it's the greatest time to start a business ever. I mean that like now if you're in a service business, like I'll just give it. I, I got a 12 page page term sheet the other day from something that I'm working on and I, I'm running 100 miles an hour. So I shot it into AI said how would you renegotiate this? Right? You know what I mean? I'm like, oh my gosh. Printed it, grabbed or, you know, I saved it and, and read it on the plane, you know, instead of sending it to an attorney, which I would have normally done. And, and, and I, I think that if you're in the CPA or a bookkeeping role, you should, you should have your eyes wide open right now. Same thing with legal. I have a really good friend that owns a syndication comp. Legal attorney, owned a very, very successful business. Syndication attorney, securities attorney out of la, Orange county. And he sold to his partner about a year ago. He called me and he's like, I just want you to know, first thing I go, why? He goes, in five years, this, this business is all going to be online. And so you know, the people that are really paying attention are, are, are, are seeing that. So, and, and it just looks to me, especially with AI agents and the way these are all getting set up and we're at the very Beginning, I think we're in the first few innings and, and I, I, I think that the, the older companies like mind, most of them aren't going to change. They're just not, they're, Are you guys going to change? Yes, I'm trying. But again, it's like I, I'm, you know, I'm the, I got this cruise ship.
- [100:45]
Sean Cannell
Yeah.
- [100:46]
Ken McElroy
You know, and, and trying to turn it, you know, with, with 20 years of, of loyalty and all that stuff of systems and stuff like that.
- [100:55]
Sean Cannell
Did you see these letters from the CEOs of Shopify and some of these other businesses that said they leaked and they basically said like, hey, you know, all of your jobs are in jeopardy kind of. And they're like, you need in mind too, like if I don't adapt, if I don't grow. And these were CEOs company wide memos or letters because of AI and essentially also just changing KPIs and quotas and saying, hey, if you could get there without AI, well, cool. But that's probably impossible. So, so the bar's raising. Y' all need to adapt. Have you sent a message like that to your team?
- [101:33]
Ken McElroy
Well, first of all, I think that's a heck of a great strategy to leak that memo, you know, because yes, that's where it's headed.
- [101:41]
Sean Cannell
Yeah.
- [101:41]
Ken McElroy
And yes, I'm having those convers. But you know, like anything when you have, you know, a legal team or a, you know, a team in accounting and, and we're heavy accounting and obviously legal and all that kind of stuff, you know, it's, it's, you know, it's like prying up a rock that's, you know, sitting in the, in the dirt hard. You know, it's just, it, it doesn't move their capacity and that you have to first educate them, you know, on what you're looking at and they have no clue. Then, you know, then this. So, so it's like I remember I used to use a driver all the time. Ted. I love this guy and he had nine cars and he was crushing it and he had contracts with all the hotels and I was in San Francisco and when Uber got released, way long time ago and I've, I used it and I, I go, I, I, he picked me up in Arizona and I go, hey Ted, man, you got to watch out for Uber. Ah, what are you talking, oh, next thing you know. No, Ted. Right. And so that's, I think, you know, we saw that with the travel agencies and you know, we're seeing that with, I think it's coming with financial planners. It's certainly happening with real estate agents. You start to see these businesses that are really just commission salespeople for something bigger that, you know, they're, they're. I, I do think they, I think this is very different. We have Waymo in our, in our area, which is the driverless car in Phoenix. And, and I take them every once in a while and sometimes I, I need a bigger car. So I always ask Uber guys, I'm like, hey, why aren't you out here? I never see you guys anymore. He goes, we can't compete. So they can't compete with a driverless car already. And so they're out in the, you know, the Chandler Gilbert Tempe area where they're not yet. And so, you know, you start to see these things, things shifts already. Picture.
- [103:39]
Sean Cannell
Do you think the average person is underestimating AI?
- [103:41]
Ken McElroy
I do, yeah. Yeah, I do. And I, I, Yes. I mean, the employer is looking at it because as you know, with inflation, our costs are up, our labor costs are up, everything's up. And it's you. I was on a Zoom call this morning with a friend of mine who said that he represents a company where they have an AI board member. You can believe that. Okay, think about that.
- [104:06]
Sean Cannell
So it's like an AI. I mean, is it a sentient being? I didn't go into equity.
- [104:11]
Ken McElroy
I didn't go into it, but I was like, that's incredible. So you feed it.
- [104:15]
Sean Cannell
They try to keep it happen.
- [104:17]
Ken McElroy
I don't know. I was like, I was like, man, that's, that's, that's crazy. You know, and if you think about it, if you feed it everything it needs, sure, it has it.
- [104:26]
Sean Cannell
What's super intelligence? I mean, I heard it put this way too. What's the iq? Now, you can't fully apply IQ to AI because of emotional intelligence and different things yet, but, but humans can't compete. The IQ is peak. Yeah, it could be. I, I did the Math once with ChatGPT. 180, 220, 240. So, so it's smarter. It just is super intelligence, especially in a particular category, decision making, different things related to business.
- [104:54]
Ken McElroy
And I think right now it's all at the, you know, call it the service level stuff. Right. But before long, it's going to move right up to C suite for sure, right? Yeah, well, for sure. Like, you know, it's headed that way, right? Yeah. So all of that stuff is interesting, but if you're over 40, you're not worried, but you should be.
- [105:14]
Sean Cannell
Sure. Ken, this has been an honor.
- [105:17]
Ken McElroy
Yeah.
- [105:18]
Sean Cannell
So thank you so much for coming on the podcast and Think media podcast, like rate, share, review wherever you watch or listen. My name is Sean Cannell, your guide to building a profitable YouTube channel, and I will catch you in a future episode.