← The Think Media Podcast
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- [00:00]
A
Hey, before we jump into the show, I just wanted to take a second and say thank you for listening. I know that life is busy, and you have a lot of options when it comes to the content you consume. So whether you're new here or you've been listening to the Think Media podcast for years, I just want to say thank you and I appreciate you. Okay, let's jump into the show. Views are down globally, but it comes down to one word of why small channels don't grow. And that one word is strategy.
- [00:30]
B
Today, Sean and I are diving into the exact framework that's helping small channels break through.
- [00:34]
A
Right now, the first ingredient in the perfect video recipe is the idea. But your ideas suck. You want to be capturing a lot of ideas to narrow down to one strong idea. Ingredient number two of the perfect video recipe is the hook. There's an interesting thing that you can learn that could help YouTube videos about how James Bond movies open.
- [00:56]
B
Let's talk about the content. That's ingredient number three, and then the which is ingredient number four. So welcome to the Think Media Podcast, the number one show bringing you unfiltered YouTube tips for building a profitable channel. I'm Nathan S. Wine, one of the coaches here at Think Media, and today, Sean and I are diving into this framework that's helping small channels break through right now. Like, no joke, I'm watching it happen in real time with our students just about every week. And I wanted to bring it to you right here ASAP and go through this with Sean, because your next upload could be the one that changes everything. But I know that sounds hard to believe, but as a coach, just take it from me. I'm seeing creators who've been stuck at the 20 view count level get hundreds. I'm seeing creators stuck at the hundreds of view count level get thousands. And it's not luck. It's just because they stopped doing what they were doing before and instead started doing these four things on every video. That's it. Four things. The algorithm, I'm convinced, is actually craving content from small creators right now. You just need to know what it's looking for. So, Sean, I want to dive deep into this framework because I believe this is the blueprint small channels need right now. So let's fight for these creators. You in?
- [02:09]
A
I'm in.
- [02:10]
B
Let's do it. Okay, cutting right to the chase. What is the number one diagnosis, in your opinion of why small channels don't grow?
- [02:19]
A
That's a good question. And to challenge me with the, like, the one thing, like, the One thing they're lacking. I don't know if there is just one thing. However, I think I can come up with one thing. And it comes down to one word of why small channels don't grow. And that one word is strategy. Or rather the lack of it. A lot of people just post and pray. A lot of people just take massive action and press record and start posting videos. And I do want every creator that is moved from being a consumer to being a creator to feel like you've accomplished a lot, to start building momentum. But the missing piece is most likely strategy. If I answer your question more specifically, it isn't really just one thing. But I think there's some big culprits, and this is what I would focus on. I think, number one, they have no clear focus or niche. So the reason they're not growing, which this framework will help, is like, who's your channel for? What problem does it solve? A lot of small channels are making the wrong content for the wrong audience. I think another aspect of strategy would be poor packaging. The perfect video recipe that we're going to be talking about is essentially figuring out the idea of packaging. And so that's going to be the next one. I think the next one will be inconsistent value. Huge question, like, what is the actual value proposition of this video? Does your video clearly solve a problem or does it entertain people or does it educate people? And if it could do all three, if it could be what would be known as kind of edutainment, pure entertainment, or there's something to learn in it, there's a takeaway. What's the tangible value? What's the takeaway? With all of the videos out there, you want to make sure that there's real value added to the viewer's life. And then I think the last part of strategy would be the wrong format for the moment. What do I mean by format? Vertical is a little bit different than talking head, than a video podcast like this, then a video essay, then faceless content, then overhead drawing there. There's more formats than people realize. And sometimes maybe the information is disorganized, but it's, you know, it's. And it's presented in such a way that if you just change the format, like brought some organization to it, maybe presented it a little bit different, maybe gave up a previous format, tried something else that could fix your problem. So those. If I was doing a check engine light for small creators, the one big problem is a lack of strategy. But strategy is multifaceted, and that's the nature of YouTube, that's the point of this podcast, is like, if our problems could be oversimplified down to one thing, then YouTube would be easy. But YouTube is a collection of, like, multi, multiple disciplines. It's like, man, we're doing video and audio and visuals and thumbnails and titles. And the real dream is to get all those pieces working together. But I think the cool part of this framework is it brings some order to the chaos, brings the ability to make some hopefully complex things more simple so listeners can start getting views right away with this information.
- [05:34]
B
Oh, that's good. I think about, like, the toughest part about being a small channel is probably waking up and seeing that nothing has changed, right? That, like, channels in the same spot, no more views. Video that you thought would do great, didn't do great. Nothing's happening, no comments are rolling in. And I love that we're already talking about a really. A hidden gem here is to just, like, switch things up. Strategy might need to be looked at again. Format might need to be looked at again, right? The definition of insanity is like, doing the same thing, expecting a different result. And so I love that's where we're starting this. So in light of that, right, like, how do we change things? How do we wake up and see different results in our channel? You know, I've heard you say a whole bunch this year, Sean, that it's really, like, never been a better time, even for anybody really, on YouTube, but even for small channels. And so let's, like, switch gears. What's the opportunity, like, what's at stake on the other side of understanding a framework like this, even over the next six months for people.
- [06:31]
A
Okay, so what's the opportunity on YouTube right now? I mean, there is huge opportunities and huge challenges facing creators. I think if you think about the challenges, there's more competition than ever before. Views are down globally. Neil Patel, who was recently, recently on the Think Media podcast, talked about that. They're. I would say they're more distributed. There's a lot of attention on Shorts, which is an opportunity, but there's frack, you know, people's attention is. Some of it's on Shorts. There's still plenty of people watching Long form, but some people watching TV and fractured attention. A lot of people are watching Netflix and Hulu. So just views are down. That's fixable, but that is the reality for many more competition views being down. There's a lot of good things like AI that can help creators go faster, but it's also making it easy for more people to get in the game. So just more volume of content. So these challenges are overcomeable. And the good news and some of the big opportunities are one, there's a massive opportunity for small channels YouTube employees like Todd Bupre and Renee Richie. You know, Renee's been on the podcast a couple times. He's talked about like, they have a dedicated team at YouTube to help small channels get discovered, to make and encourage the algorithm and set the algorithm up so that new and small channels have a shot. I totally realize it can feel like there's no way to break through and the algorithm is against me. But the truth is it's in YouTube's best interest for new creators to rise up. It's in YouTube's best interest for the creator economy to continue to expand. So they actually are rigging the game in your favor and not against you. You just need to know the rules. You need to understand how the algorithm works. You need to increase your skills to take advantage of that opportunity. What we're seeing is on people's subscriber feeds on their homepage. I see this all the time. I of course see big creators. I of course see videos that are going viral, but every single day, maybe it's the fourth or sixth video in the feed, maybe it's the eighth video. I'll see a channel that has under a hundred subscribers. I'll see videos that have 22 views. The key is those videos are about subject matter that I have expressed interest in. I'm talking as a viewer now. And it's YouTube giving some impressions and giving a shot to new and up and coming creators. That's a real thing. The other big idea, as far as opportunity, is that a lot of people have articulated that we have moved away from the era of social media and we've moved into the era of interest media and that subscribers don't matter anymore, quote, unquote. What that means is that brand new channels are having breakout videos if they craft content that knows how to leverage the algorithm. And that's what this framework will do. I know we're going to get there, but it's like this idea of, I'm sure small creators can be frustrated. Like, why did this new channel, who's only posted three videos and their third video got 33,000 views, but I've posted 300 videos and they're all stuck at 3:30 views. It's a real thing, but it's because probably of their storytelling, their structure, their packaging, maybe luck, maybe also they got lucky. But nevertheless, the content Itself luckily ended up in a format that it got clicked on. It kept people's attention, it tapped into a verifiable audience and interest. And it's the fact that algorithms are not serving subscribers and followers in the same way they once did. Now they're just sending videos and content to people based on interest. The last big idea here, which is a major strategic insight for small channels to understand, is that the YouTube algorithm looks at viewers watch history to determine what videos they are sent next. The reason that's so profound is if you're listening to this, just think about what you've already searched or you watched. As soon as you start getting interested in vertical gardening and you search that one or two times and then you watch a few minutes of a couple of different videos about vertical gardening, the algorithm starts to send you more content related to vertical gardening. The big insight is the strategic decision for the small channel to get clear on the niche you're in, the topic you're creating, and to have then fierce clarity in your video itself. To really tap into keywords. It's kind of a funny because people are like, tags are dead. But like to tap into vertical gardening is a keyword, like to tap into that and even maybe something more specific like wheat grass, vertical gardening for biohacking and health. When you get into something specific and your videos optimize around these validated topics, these topics you've done your research on ahead of time. It's why you can jump into the conversation as a new creator and start getting views which, which hopefully trying to simplify things, comes back to strategy. It just means we're putting more thought, more strategy into our total channel, into the individual videos. And so by the end of this episode, like using this framework, it's. You have a great shot of getting double 4x6x10x more views on your next video simply because you can have a better strategy, a better approach and anybody can follow this framework in this recipe.
- [12:05]
B
Oh, let's go. I gotta say too, before we jump into this first ingredient of this recipe is I think as a coach I've, I'm getting allergic to the phrase the algorithm is against me. I don't know, I hear someone say it and it's like total respect. I get it. Like fellow creator too. I have felt this before, but it's just now, I mean, man, you said it so good. Like the watch history, small creators, the team that YouTube has. I've been telling creators a lot like the algorithm isn't like against anybody, like to actually take that phrase at face value, for the algorithm to be against you, you've had to have, like, violated something crazy. You know what I'm saying? Like, for it actually to, like, channel is done, you know, terminated. But, like, the algorithm is more often than not waiting for you to kind of get your act together. Right. Like, the algorithm wants you to figure out these key ingredients that we're going to walk through today. So I'm just ready to, like, go for it, Sean. Like, we've got these four ingredients that make up this perfect recipe, and this is the exact stuff that we teach inside of our coaching programs. The very first ingredient is the idea. Would you mind, like, let's get tactical. How does a small channel nail the idea?
- [13:13]
A
Yeah, that's great. I would say that when we talk about the first ingredient in the perfect video recipe, which is the idea, I like to call it the. The big idea. Because for a lot of creators. Here's a. Here, you could follow along in this episode and, like, almost, like, take notes first. It's like, brainstorm 10 to 20 ideas for your next video. Now you have 20 ideas. The reason I like to call it the big idea is because chances are, half of those video ideas, maybe 60%, maybe 19 out of 20, are not very good ideas. Your ideas suck. Now so do mine. One of the things I've learned is that you want to be capturing a lot of ideas to narrow down to one strong idea. And we're not talking about overthinking this here, but it's just, I think you need more thought. There's actually a book I read once called the Idea Machine by James Altucher, who actually talked about the power of sitting down and writing 10 ideas down every single day. And he recommended. He's like, stretch yourself to write 10 business ideas that don't exist yet that solve problems just to get your brain working. And then he was like, write down 10 ways you could deepen your relationship with your spouse. Then he's like, write down and like, you're gonna train your brain to be better at coming up with ideas. But the exercise was. And number one, stretch yourself to get to 10. Cause you're like, here's the first five. I'll write her a card. I will buy her a gift. I will. I will. I don't know. I only had two good ideas. Like, so force yourself to get to 10. Well, okay, when you're thinking about your YouTube channel, like, what are 10? And you want them to all be good, but then when you re look at them, so the first thing is the big idea. And that includes three elements, which is the thumbnail, the title, and the idea. The topic, the thumbnail, the title, and the topic. And where I find a lot of creators, they skip the step of the topic of the idea, and they're like, how do I just write a good title for the thing I want to make? And it's like, slow down a little bit. How do I start designing a thumbnail? Let's really consider the idea first. You know, when you look at some of the YouTube strategists that have built channels or that coach some of the biggest channels and work with even, like, Hollywood and whatnot, a lot of them will talk about how they will spend ten to a hundred times more time on the topic, the idea itself. Then most creators would think you would need to. So for some, they just skip it. They're like, tomorrow I want to talk. They got a DIY homesteading channel. They're like, tomorrow I'm going to talk about my chicken coop. You're like, all right. I mean, it's actually solid topic. Actually, I would green light that. But, like, how can we. Let's take it a little bit deeper. And they're like, I got the idea. Let me figure out a title. Let me thumbnail it. Let me just go on. It's like, okay, hold on. If you just took one minute on that, can you at least take 10 to 100 minutes to really brainstorm what is the specific topic? And I think the power here for small creators is I'd call it angles. How many different angles are there on this topic? We were just recently brainstorming a podcast with Ken McElroy, which will be out by the. The time that this podcast episode drops. And he's built a 475,000 subscriber channel. And he's a businessman. He does real estate investing. So there's like, well, there's the business side, how. And then we start. These are titles, but they're like angles on the topic itself. How this CEO got 500 subscribers or how to use YouTube for business. So we're like kind of looking at it. We're looking at the topic that we're holding, and we're trying to look at it almost like from a 360 degree. I don't know what dimension it would be if it was a sphere. It's like you almost want to look at it not just from 360. You want to look at it from every different vantage point. So we're kind of like looking at this Conversation with Ken and eventually it's like, okay, what are some different. What's true about the episode? We don't want to be clickbait, but what's also the most interesting angle? What are the different things? And this was after the fact of recording. But the powerful thing was I reshot an intro later to lead into it. All that to say is eventually I discovered the truth that Ken has raised essentially or acquired with leverage a billion dollars in real estate since 2020 when he started YouTube. And so then I was like, is that true? I actually checked with him and then I look and it doesn't mean he's made a billion dollars. So. But it's a true angle because once you invest the money in real estate, there's the value of the real estate. And he's all that to say is, this is all the thought that just went into kind of like, what's, what's the angle? What's the topic? Which this all kind of happens together. Meaning while I'm thinking about the big idea with Ken, okay, YouTuber has raised money with YouTube content creator business. All these things I am simultaneously thinking about, okay, what are the different titles and how is that going to come together and what are the different thumbnail opportunities? And so what could the thumbnail show? Would it be just a picture of Ken? Would it be a picture of Ken and me? What would the words on the thumbnail say? And so the first ingredient of the perfect video recipe we teach at Think Media is the big idea. And it includes the topic, the title and the thumbnail and sort of like work through all of those and then rework through those and let's land the plane and we could take it as deep as you want, but let's just kind of like you would brainstorm. As James Altucher talked about in his book up to 10 titles, I think that small channels could benefit from challenging themselves to come up with up to 10 titles for their video, up to 10 topic angles for the one video, and up to 10 thumbnail ideas. Now people are probably like, what are you talking, I got a full time job, I got kids, I'm trying, like, I don't have time to do that. I'm not saying you have to design it all. I'm saying exercise your brain. You don't have to design 10 thumbnails, but you could brainstorm just like you got up and did a journaling practice, Practice be like, okay, Ken, only the. The guest and me, no guest, just words like and, and, and as you think through that and, and I like to plan on paper or plan on at least a digital Google Doc. Then when you look over and mull over a little bit and sort of stare at it and just think about it for a few moments. You've put so much more strategy into topic title and thumbnail. Perhaps before you've pressed record, or maybe you've interviewed a guest like I did on the Think Media podcast. I had the interview that I just cut into and I repackaged it later. I was like, well, let me get all the information. Let me now like that. He said, and now let me think about how to package it. Important ingredient number one. And the point of the framework is just like cooking a meal. If you have the right ingredients, but you do them in the wrong order, it's like you don't want to start adding the frosting before you've baked the cake. If you put that in there, the frosting is going to melt. It might blend together with the cake batter. You had the right ingredient, but at the wrong time. The reason this is first is it's like really being like, okay, this idea is strong. Now I've come up with a good title. I've thought about the thumbnail. And so if you are doing a DIY homesteading channel and it is about chickens, you start thinking it could be how the chickens broke out and went crazy. The chickens attacked my kids. Like how, how I doubled my roosters eggs. And, and, and you were just going to call it like update of my chickens. Which I know you see your coaching creators all day. You're like, okay, that we started. Like we, we have the topic, you know, June update of chicken eggs that we've done. And it's maybe just factual. Great. Okay, let's cook on it. Let him cook. Let's cook it up a little bit. We're gonna let it. So let's cook this. Okay, so what are the different angles? And so you're, you're even like poking your idea a little bit. Where. How many eggs did they last month? Why'd you double? And then the desire of the viewer is like they want more egg production from their roosters. Okay, So I knew I wanted to talk about my chickens. Fine, maybe that's the thing. But let's cook on that. Let's massage the idea to get it dialed in. Really, before we move to the next step.
- [21:46]
B
Oh, this is fire. I want to hang here for just a second because, you know, I'm trying to think back like when I was trying to just get my videos to do something different than they were doing for me. Get out of the 20 view, count to the hundreds, to the thousands maybe. Right. And something that I, I, I would love for you to explain just a little bit further, if you don't mind, is the difference between, okay, because you say big idea and I know that sometimes we could interpret that as, does that mean like a big, like, like a big video? Like I have to do something kind of like a Mr. Beast style, like a big idea. Okay, what's like the, okay, the big thing that I could do. And I just think a lot of channels, especially around think media too, like, hey, we have a heart for entertainment channels, but we serve a lot of education based channels and I have found they're like, what? So what does that mean for me? And it's like, no, no, no. Like what's the big idea in your niche? And the big idea is like, is this. It's the refinement, it's the poking, it's the reiterating. So I wonder if you wouldn't mind explaining that to creators just for a second, like to that small creator who's like, oh, I have to like do something big, you know, like a big video.
- [22:52]
A
So that's a great way to put it because it could feel overwhelming, like I have to do something extraordinary. That's going to take a ton of energy and emotion. Here's how I would, here's how I put it. You have the basic idea which will stick with the chickens. And the basic idea is, I have a chicken coop, I'm raising chickens. Huge, great niche. There's other people who want to do the same. Maybe they just want to get started. Maybe they just want. I think it's about massaging the idea and then thinking about how can you do a few things? How can you raise the stakes? How can you tap into pain or problems the audience has? How can you tap into emotion or curiosity? How can you increase the drama that makes people uncomfortable? Because they might be like, well, I don't want to make it clickbait. I actually think you should click bait. You should just do it ethically. So if there is no tension in the title, if there's no, these are storytelling elements, if there's no conflict, then there's no urgency. If there's no urgency to click. So I'm just making some notes here in my journal. That's a lot of different elements that just took a basic idea and can turn it into a big idea. If basic idea, monthly update of my chicken cooperation parentheses for diy homesteaders. All right, the basic idea is there. But then you say how can I raise the stakes? How can I tap into pain problems? How can I tap into the viewer emotion, create curiosity? How can I create drama, tension, conflict or urgency? That's like 10 distinctions of different ways to inject the storytelling element into it. And so if we were to just be teaching Excel tutorials or Microsoft Word tutorials, Microsoft Office tutorials on one hand, actually more power to you. A basic search based tutorial is still great. This year especially, you're covering new. You're doing programming, you're helping people write code, you're helping people learn AI to write code. Sometimes it's just what's the intent of the video? It could be a very strong, I would say big idea to just be like complete tutorial for getting started with Microsoft Excel 2026. Awesome. You know, and it's clear 10 steps. And so it could be that you were just gonna, you thought about it like I want to help people get started. But what became, what amplified the idea was like actually if I really broke this into a structured tutorial and I really thought about the beginning, middle and intro. Now actually it might even be a three part video. And so I should probably break it down because each one would be 10 parts. A lot of like thoughts. So it's massaging that. Yeah, that's one thing. But let's take it back to the chickens. You start thinking instead of just doing an update, you might think, man, the angle of this video is like let's take it the non search based way and go like the more suggested curiosity based trigger the algorithm way. How our chickens almost destroyed our marriage. Still about chickens. And you're like these chick like hey, and that's your. And then it still could be like June update on Anderson Farms parentheses in the end. That's kind of tying in to like the fact you're vlogging and you're all. But that that's a storytelling. It just went from a another way. Big or small. Think about scoring the idea. What is the idea on. On 1 out of 10 and of how strong it is. June Chicken Coop update. That's maybe a one or a two and you know how the chickens almost destroyed our marriage. It might be a 5 or 6. If it's and it's true and you start thinking we got in all these fights, you start bringing in real stuff that people can relate to. It's still all about the chickens. And there's a hook in the beginning. There's the whole Deal. So it's. It's looking at. We're throwing a lot at listeners, but it's massaging the idea and trying to get. I don't mean 1 out of 10 in terms of YouTube scoring when you release a new video, but the parallel is actually that you'll probably get a 1 out of 10 if you increase the strength of the idea, which hurts the math, because I want the 10 out of 10 to actually be the score of the title. And so I don't even know if you could follow along with this. But ultimately, yeah, just like, how strong is the idea? Weak, medium, or strong? And what I would encourage, you know, viewers. And of course, that's also why you're constantly working with creators. And, you know, what we do here at Think Media is because this is an art form to learn, it's a skill set to learn. It's something to practice, it's something to think about. These different elements, it doesn't necessarily come natural to us. You definitely don't learn it in one day, but it's something to work on every day. That's why we say get 1% better. That's why it says it right behind you. If you're watching the video version of this, you've got a Think Media graphic that. That's a one of one that Tekashi designed for you. I'm like, how did you get a canvas that I don't even have that. We need to put that in, like, our Think Media store that doesn't even exist, but you got this awesome, you know, 1% better. It's that it's like, this is. This is why there's also so much hope on YouTube. Because as you. You learn these skills, you. You develop this way of seeing and this way of thinking. It does not happen overnight, but every day you work on it, you get a little bit better and. And then that's why you say. We say you're one video away from changing your life. You're one video away from a video ranking. You're one video away from it breaking out. Because the right packaging, the right angle around how you frame your chicken coop update for your homesteading channel could be the difference between a hundred views and 100,000. Hey, we're about to get back into the podcast in just a second, but I have a question for you. Do you want to grow your personal brand this year? Do you need more leads and sales in your business? If the answer is yes, then right now is the best time to go all in on YouTube. Today's podcast is brought to you by ThinkMasterclass.com, where you can get on demand access to a one hour deep dive training revealing how to start and grow a profitable YouTube channel. This year, for a limited time, you can get access to this on demand class entirely for free. With free, where you will learn the three biggest mistakes that people make when starting a YouTube channel. The new rules and changes that have been happening on YouTube and how you can use them to create an unfair advantage. And the exact strategy we use at Think Media to generate over 350,000 organic views every single day. The data is clear. 70% of viewers claim that YouTube makes them more aware of new brands. So don't wait any longer to start growing your brand, brand and business with YouTube. Just go to thinkmasterclass.com to get access to this. No fluff, highly tactical, free on demand training. That's thinkmasterclass.com powerful.
- [30:11]
B
I think that, you know the second ingredient that we're about to get into, really from the second ingredient on, I think it's like this is how you get the viewer or people to stay on your video to get their buy in and have them consent, continue consuming your content. But I can't understate this enough. This, this first section, we're really hunkering down here. This is no different. A coaching session, Sean. Like if I'm on a coaching session with someone, right? We are spending the bulk of the call right here. Right here. It's ideas, it's ideation. It's what the angle. It's like scoring the idea and battling it out back and forth, right? Maybe even throwing in some AI into the mix to try to help things as well. But this is mission critical because this is actually the gateway to more views. This is the starting point. If you can get more people to click, right, that's where it all starts. Because we could, I hear this all the time. You could have epic content at like minute four or whatever. You're like this chick. Okay, so you're going with chickens today. I guess like the chicken stuff that I'm talking about is so good. The story I have about my wife and I, whatever, is so good. But here's the thing that we didn't present it in a way that gets people to click. They don't see it, right? So it's like this actually matters. This is where all, all the dreams come true on YouTube by getting people to just click. But then there's more. We can't just like get people to click because the last thing we want is people clicking and then bouncing. We want people to click and stay. Second ingredient we call the hook. That first 30 seconds make or break. What works for small channels when it comes to the second ingredient, Sean? The hook.
- [31:41]
A
Yeah. So the powerful thing about the perfect video recipe is you want to go through the steps in order. And if, like you mentioned, if you do step one and you have a level of clarity there, then things start to flow naturally off that. And inside of video Reiki Academy, we have a process and it all starts with starting with the end in mind. It all starts with the reverse engineer and researching before you press record. And so by the time that you write your hook, if possible, and to define. So ingredient number two of the perfect video recipe is the hook. What is the hook? Well, it's the opening of your video. How long is that? What does that mean? That actually doesn't have a specific length. And this might be frustrating, but the hook might be 10 seconds, it might be 30 seconds, the hook might be three minutes. What? Well, if you've got a 30 minute video or an hour long tutorial or training, the hook could absolutely be three minutes long. I think about James Bond movies and there's an interesting thing that you can learn that could help YouTube videos about how James Bond movies open. One of the insights really helped me get more views on YouTube. And that's something I learned from again, James Bond. And it's first this idea of cut to the chase. And basically every James Bond movie, the opening is a chase scene. It's just like, boom, the video starts and all of a sudden James Bond is on the run. There's like machine guns going, why is he on a jet ski? There's 40 guys chasing him along the shoreline. There's, you know, a Porsche and somebody's like shooting a machine gun at the top out of him. Like, what is happening? And so much is happening in your brain. There's like a lot of dopamine. There's a lot of excitement. How did he get himself in the situation? What is in that steel case that he's holding in his hand that's handcuffed to his wrist? Where's this all going? And then after 1, 2, 3 minutes, a lot of movies follow this formula. It'll go two weeks earlier. So you start realizing. So then it cuts back and then James Bond, he's chilling there. He walks into a bar, he gets his drink shaken, not stirred. It's much more chill now. We're going into character development. Who's that interesting lady at the other side of the bar, Is that going to be somebody he's romantically involved with? Is that going to be a partner? Does she betray him later? But like you now, cut back to laying the foundation, getting into things. YouTube creators can benefit from this. And again, we're talking like Hollywood level storytelling. But you could apply that to your chicken coop video. How do you cut to the chase? How do you. But all that to say the reason the hook could be long is because it's getting you hooked. It's getting you into watching a whole two hour film. It's getting you bought into what's coming up. You know, the second principle I learned about the hook on entertainment was reality tv. It literally says coming up on the Kardashians. And then there's like a fight or a conflict and it's like, Kim, I can't believe you. And then it's like Chloe, no. And they like throw and break a glass. And then it cuts to another scene and like Kim and Kanye, that's throwback. I know, I'm like years expired in Kardashian updates. But you know, they've got some conflict. Oh, they go shopping. Does she buy this purse or that purse? It's like teasing what's coming up. And it might show you. It shows you a couple things. It actually shows you all the best scenes, it shows you all the highlights, it teases all these peak moments that are coming up. Gets you excited and yet you still watch. And then it goes back and it's like establishing shot in Calabasas and just the usual characters and they. But that they need to do something in the beginning. So that's kind of this idea of the hook. How long can it be? As long as it needs to be. But I would argue most creators should probably take it a lot more serious and it, it probably could be the longer than most think. Extend the hook out, cut to the chase, start delivering value right away and maybe even deliver the whole first portion. Maybe you have a five tip video. The first minute or minute and a half could actually be the first tip. And you're like, that's actually the first of five tips. I'm going to share the next four with you in just a second. But if you're new here. Welcome back to the Think Media podcast. So the whole beginning is like we're cutting to the chase. We got right into it. Machine guns, helicopters, the whole thing before just being like. I think what's kind of outdated when it comes to YouTube strategy is the idea of saying like in this video, I'm about to tell you this and tell you this and tell you that, which we've taught for years and all of our students do. It's not bad, it's factual. But I think things are different on YouTube this year. You know, and moving forward, it's like, if you've done the big idea, right, the topic, the title and the thumbnail, they already know what it is. They've clicked on knowing what it is. Like, they. You're getting straight into it. If you're doing an Excel spreadsheet, you know, tutorial or beginner guide for the newest edition, you might just go, all right, we're going to open up Excel and get right into this with step number one. You might just get right into it because they clicked on the right packaging than the right. The right in it. But the big idea of the hook, not to be confusing, the main principle of the hook is that now that we have thought about what our topic is, what the exact title is going to be, what the promise of the video is, which we're defining in step one, what are we promising to viewers? How can we now cut straight to the chase and grab people's attention? Establish our authority, set an agenda for the video and include some of the things we mentioned, like, in a way, give a reason to watch till the end, put some urgency or stakes to watch. And some of these terms sound so disconnected, perhaps from education, because we're like, it's just going to be a tutorial, but you will get more views and you will get better watch time if you start learning some of these best practices, just listening to this and getting 1% better on your next upload, putting a little more thought and strategy into what do people hear first? What do they see first? What are the opening 10 or 20 or 30 seconds? You're going to do better by just thinking about it. But there's a lot of powerful elements to strengthen the hook and then, you know, lastly. And we can unpack it more. But my thought is also, like, it might sound like we're emphasizing everything, like every part is the most important part and you should spend more time on it. But these first two parts, it's like, really true about, like, not only should listeners spend more time crafting the big idea and the topic, the title, the thumbnail, AKA the packaging, they should spend more time writing out the hook. Let me tell a personal story. It's like, I freestyle, I outline my videos, I don't script them typically, I outline my videos, I do not script them. I will a lot of times use Google Docs. Typically, I have numbered points, tips, and takeaways. So I'll have a numbered point number one, two, three, let's say. And then underneath that, I might have a couple bullet points that are just triggers to remind me what I want to say. Maybe there's a prompt to remember that story or that illustration or that case study. Maybe there's a metaphor or something and I'll just give myself some cues. But beyond that, I'll then freestyle around that. I'm not reading off a script. I'm just following an outline. But, Nathan, what I would say is, typically I script my hooks word for word. On the Think Media podcast, what people will notice is sometimes, like, YouTube viewers will be like, he doesn't even look at the camera. Like, what is he doing? He's, like, looking at his notes. He's like. Because, like, it's a podcast. A. So I kind of just accept that I might read or look at my notes or reference something. There's some people. I heard one person recently, they were like, he doesn't seem super engaged with his guests. Which, by the way, I appreciate this feedback because I'm like, you're right, I should stay engaged. I want to, like, keep the eye contact with the camera or whatever. But what I'm actually looking at is I'm taking notes myself. All that to say is once I get into the content, I'm less concerned. And our watch time's pretty good and our channel grows pretty good. And what's. Because once you're into it, that's different than at the start. I just shot a hook today for this episode that we're doing with Ken McElroy, and I made sure every line was delivered perfectly. Every line was eye contact with the lens. The whole opening of the video, I sat down and polished. Of course, if you. If you quote, unquote, polish an entire video, it. It might benefit from improved performance. But just if. If. For what it's worth, my own personal behavior is spending a significant amount of time on the topic, title and thumbnail, and then spending a significant amount of time on crafting the hook. And if you get those things right, you set it yourself. You're like, there might be some gold or some unlight at minute four in the video, but people will never make it to minute four if they don't click in the first place because of a good big idea. And if they don't stick around and actually feel a reason to watch until minutes. Minute four because of what you Craft inside of the hook. So I think these first two are stacking, but they're disproportionately important because they're what are getting people to actually stick around with your video, know what's coming up and increasing your watch time overall.
- [41:15]
B
This is huge. These first two, I 100% agree. I'm like, if you're going to spend your time somewhere, the ice cold tactic right now for the small channel is right here. Better ideas, better hooks. Like, I swear I've seen this, Sean, like over and over again. Few tweaks on the title thumbnail. The idea itself, it's a good representation of the idea. We click into the video, those first few sentences are in line, right? It's like they're talking to the viewer. Those videos get more views. I swear, outliers are made right here. This whole conversation, we just had small channels. Your next video could be on the other side of just these few tweaks. Sean, I had a thought as you were talking about the length of a hook. I've had this, I've had this idea. I want to run it by you right here on the air, so to speak. So I have a background in music. I know you have a background in music. Artists and musicians just being in writing sessions and stuff with them. Like they will stress out over the opening line, the very first line of the song, the lyrics, like, what's happening right there? And there's several different things. Like, you know, in Spotify, a stream actually isn't a stream unless it's been played for 30 seconds. And so there's like actually all this retention crazy stuff that happens for musicians and Spotify. But to bring it to YouTube, it has made me think about. I think we should, we should stress over that opening line more. As creators like that. Just the first thing out of your mouth, whether it's what you're saying, it's what you're showing, it's a combination of what you're saying and what you're showing. I'm curious your thoughts about how important that initial interaction is after someone is because here's the reality, right? We all do this. Someone has made the decision. It might be a little dramatic to say, but they've taken the risk to click in on a video that they nailed the big idea. The packaging is great. Title thumbnail. It's like this is. This seems like what I'm looking for. But what's that difference between like people who click in on that video and then leave right away? I've totally done this it's like something just feels off in those even first five seconds. Like, any insights there about what's going on and what, you know, a small creator could take away from it?
- [43:22]
A
Well, there's a couple insights and the first thing is what a powerful illustration for you to bring up with your experience in writing songs and helping people write hit songs and crafting music. And you're exactly right. I have a couple references here, and this might feel a little off brand, but I'm going to go there because there's a whole side of me that people that listen to the podcast know. I'm a person of faith and I love Jesus, but I also was raised by the Wu Tang Clan as a white kid in a Christian high school. So, like, hip hop has been a big influence for me. So I actually have a line that is from a particular song. But you're absolutely right. I. There's this underground rap group called Dilated Peoples, and there's this one line where he actually kind of references this. He goes, I like to start every verse with something to quote the devil, you know, is better than the devil you don't. And I've never forgot it, but even his him saying that. I like to start every verse with something to quote. What is the first sentence? Is it. Is it provocative? Is it triggering? What is that first thing you hear? And this can feel like a lot of pressure. I mean, I want small creators to take a. You know, and creators of all sizes take a deep breath and be like, geez, you know, do I have to be Aristotle, Socrates and have like a biblical first line? Like, no, but, but, but you brought it up like the point. So then, you know, Jay Z from Diamonds from Sierra Leone says, I'm not a businessman. I'm a businessman. Opening line. Notorious B.I.G. juicy. It was all a dream. I used to read Word up magazine 1. And then these turn into memes. Think about these songs where just a phrase. How about this one? Hello, darkness, my old friend. Yes, that's all. That's five words. And Simon and Garfield are having that whole thing stick. But here's the one I want to share, and I'm going to censor it a little bit. There's a rapper named Central C and wrote a song called Doja. And the opening line is, I'm going to say almost every word. I'm going to censor the B word. Okay? How can I be homophobic? My B is gay. That's the opening line. Now it's like, what? Like he just went 0 to 100 real fast. And you're also like, what does that even mean? Like. And so this line exploded in popularity. First line, a couple reasons. Because it's contradictory and provocative. So wait, how can I be. That's already a touch. Touchy issue. How can I be homophobic? It's also humorous. It's like meme worthy. So it's shareable and it's also memorable. And it's just kind of like, hello, darkness, my old friend. So you gotta know that these artists that actually sometimes have writers helping them or their, their, you know, that's on brand for him, you know, whether that's cursing or talking about subject matter. And so everybody listening to this, the principles, which is what we do here at the Think video podcast, I think we can learn these powerful principles about cutting through the noise, you know, thinking about what's happening in culture. It's provocative. It's. It. It's a counterculture. Like, wait, he's not allowed to say that. That's the other. Like, wait a minute, you can't. You can't even talk about the. He just did. So thinking about packaging and the hook, you're just absolutely right. So you just kind of got me inspired. You tapped into me thinking about, you know, is this the real life? Is this just fantasy, bohemian, rapisty? It's soon. And anybody that goes to a wedding, which is where a lot of our listeners, like, they're not usually they're like, yeah, I don't really turn up to music like that, Sean. I only listen to, you know, praise. 10, 5, 3. But I'll turn up at a wedding. You get me. Like that song that hits me from that R B classic from high school. Man, that just gets me back, you know, I must mainly listen to worship music, but I might be able to spin a little Casey and jojo, you know, 98 degrees. It takes me back to that one that got away. So anyways, there's the power of focusing on the first line. I think I might have forgot your second question. It's worth thinking about and it's worth. We're taking a lot of side quests here, but this particular side quest is interesting. Creators need a point of view. Small creators need to work on formulating a point of view. And consider this. If you're just like putting out some same old information, that information's on AI. That's. But people want your videos. You're listening. They want a human. They want someone to guide them. They want someone to teach. They want to find new creators. They want to find Your channel. But you got to work on your message, you got to work on your communication. You gotta improve these skill sets and this skill set of dialing in these, you know, levers, if you will, to improve your hook can be incredibly powerful. And your first line might set the tone, create some cognitive dissonance. And you don't have to be off brand and be provocative like you aren't, or say something you don't believe. But take it all the way back to my favorite example, leader of all time, communicator of all time, and you know, the one I've put my faith in. Jesus Christ himself. Everything recorded in scripture of how he was as a communicator, best in the world, none better. And he would often say, you've heard it said this way, but I tell you, it this way. You've heard it said, eye for an eye, but I tell you, turn the other cheek. Knowing his audience, the key, he understood his audience. He understood what was happening in the culture. He was driven, of course, by pure truth and pure integrity, but was able to cut through the noise and be provocative and what people be like. Or that would flip their mind. Wait, we've never heard it said that way. How does he teach with such great wisdom? That's the area we want to grow in as communicators. How do we inject some wisdom, some point of view, some perspective in this? And what's waiting for you on the other side is, you know, in Central C's case, it ended up being a massive hit. Whether he got views from people who were offended, people who shared it, what did he just say? People who thought it was funny, people who thought you're on to something. If you're of course, staying true to yourself, you're being in alignment with your own integrity, but you're cutting through the noise in such a way. I don't remember the next question, but that idea of how long an artist spends on the first line, I think is a powerful thought about how important the hook is.
- [50:03]
B
Oh, that was it. Just the idea of the thought of, yeah, what is that initial encounter? And if we're already putting so much work into the big idea, we're going to put that work into the hook. Thinking about that, I love that and I love actually bringing this, like, you know, hip hop energy into, like, the Excel spreadsheet tutorial space. Like, I just like. Not that you have to go crazy, but even just like flipping conventional wisdom in your niche right on its head in that opening line. Something that gets attention, that stirs things up, even your vibe or how you come across. Like, I think there's an opportunity there that probably doesn't get talked about enough. So I'm happy with the side quest right there, but we will keep it moving. We've talked about getting them to click small channels. How do you get people to click? Get a better idea, bigger idea. Not necessarily in terms of scope, but in terms of angles. Right after they've clicked. We got to get their buy in. The buy in happens in that hook. We talked about a preference. Pretty cool strategy. Thinking about that first sentence, setting the tone. Okay, Sean, someone's clicked. They've got the buy in. These last two ingredients, if it's cool, just want to combine them a little bit. Because again, like, we spent a lot of time on the parts that matter the most, but we don't just want people to click and stay for 30 seconds. We'd like the rest of the video. Let's talk about the content. That's ingredient number three and then the transition, which is ingredient number four.
- [51:20]
A
Yeah, that's great. And I think for defining terms, the four ingredients of the perfect video recipe are the big idea, number two, the hook, number three, the content number four, the transition. And I would include. This might sound counterintuitive for, for some, I would include in the content the cta. I would include in the content the call to action. For those that are maybe more advanced in online marketing or those that want to achieve a result, they want to get leads, they're trying to think about how do I grow my business or how do I give a reference to even an affiliate link or make money on YouTube. Notice that the final ingredient of the perfect video recipe for YouTube is the transition. What does that mean? We'll come back to content? It means that the way you end a YouTube video would be familiar to most is that you should be pointing to another YouTube video. But the way that a lot of people would talk about how to make a video in video marketing circles is they're like, hook content, call to action. Like, first thing, grab attention, do the content in the middle and then tell the viewer what to do next. Or give a call to action, which would be to a website or somewhere else. And that's just not what you want to do at the end of a YouTube video. So the fourth ingredient is the transition. How do you without letting the viewer know you're ending transition, agitate another problem, open another loop of curiosity, point to another episode or video in your library and then say click or tap the screen or click the screen to watch what's next. Or utilize the power of an end card to. Instead of just having a viewer watch a singular video, how do you hopefully encourage them to watch multiple videos in a row? Create a viewer journey where they could binge your content. And you know, if you really look at the math, how many people click end cards, it's people are going to jump on their own, they're going to go where they want next. It's not a ton, but I've seen that many people don't even get any clicks or very few. And maybe get 1%. And you can look at this in your analytics. If you could raise that up to 5 or 10%, which we've done. That's wild. And that's. And then you multiply that by, you know, of course I think media, we have videos with a hundred thousand views. I think we have over 40 or 50 videos now with 1 to 10 million views. Well, 10 million views, 10% of people, that's a million people clicked your end card if you got it to 10%. So how many people. Again, many people might just jump off they liked your one video, but you want to intentionally, intentionally strategically transition people to another video. That's step four. So if you take it back to content. The reason I'm mentioning the CTA is that people then wonder and from entertainment, maybe not as much, but of course in education, but, but then when, when do I like let them know about my thing or when do I tell them about my website or when do I tell people about what I have to offer? My argument is that the content in the middle either either maybe you don't include it. Not every video has, has to have a call to action in the sense that you got to go to a website or go do something. And not every creator is building an email list. Although every creator should be thinking about building an email list. In my opinion, that's where you would include it. You'd actually include it somewhere in the middle of the video. And I think that's probably a conversation for another day. So if we land the plane on the content, it's probably a part two episode because there's just so much here. I mean now we're in the bulk of the video. If I thought about one word that sums it up, it would be structure. Is that there is structure to your content. This is why a hundred percent of people listening to this can get more views on their next video if they just have better structure. You're an entertainment channel. Stories have a Beginning, middle, and end. There's a structure to it. Even better. They have, like, rising conflict, they have some resolution. They have multiple con conflicts. It's kind of like the advanced level of this is hooks aren't just at the beginning of the video. You might rehook multiple times. I think the Mr. Beast culture for it is a continuance of raising the stakes. And the way to understand this is there's a premise at the beginning of the video, like a hundred old people versus a hundred young people. And then mid video, it's like, and now there's a hundred dogs introduced into it as well. That's what. And then it's like, and now we're not just giving away a million dollars, we're actually going to give away $5 million. But it's introduced later. So you're about to jump off and there's like these multiple. Well, that's Mr. Beast. I can't do that. Yes, you can. You could just think about the structure. What are the different plot points that are happening in your video? And if it's as simple as an Excel tutorial, it's thinking about the structure. Is it logical? Is it linear? Is it. How can I make it more interesting? How could I think about re engaging the viewer to where. When it might get boring? People need to be themselves. And not everyone's going to inject hip hop lyrics or Simon and Garfunkel, but that's the kind of stuff that makes a boring Excel training a little bit more interesting. What? Maybe there's some references, some humor, some dry humor. Maybe it's not humor. Maybe it's just kind of a reset of attention. Maybe it's a metaphor. There's a lot of ingredients, but at the end of the day, I think about structure.
- [56:33]
B
Okay, Sean, So just keeping in mind that creator who could listen to this episode, there's a lot of stuff that we covered and a lot of good side quests, you know, and some questionable. But no, they're all. They're all good thinking through their next video. All right, so someone's going to put this down. Next upload's on the way. It could be overwhelming to think about all four of these parts. Okay. The big idea that's important. Okay. The hook is important as well. Well, they're all important. There's four ingredients. Would it be safe to say, to try to, like, enable the best output forward? Just focus on for your next video, your big idea and your hook. And then when it comes to the content in the transition, do your best Know they're important, but spend the time, like, what if you double the time that you spent on that big idea? Fleshing it out, fighting for the right angle, that hook, thinking about that opening line, thinking about the vibe, thinking about what the viewer's experiencing after they've clicked on what you've presented to them in the title and thumbnail. And that's great for that next upload. And then when it comes to the content, just deliver it. I've often said this to creators, like, in the beginning, right, where it's like, there's a lot. It's overwhelming. Hey, let's focus on the highest roi, which is going to be the idea, title, thumbnail, and then that hook. And when it comes to content, do your thing, right? Just like, teach. Teach about Excel. Open it up and walk me through the three steps that you're promising, right? When it comes to the chickens, talk to me about the best feed for them, right? Let you just talk. Just give me your expertise, give me your entertainment. And maybe for that next upload, then we can start to attack the content. Is it safe to say? What I'm trying to say is, like, that the pressure is a little off. If you've kind of done your part with the big idea and the hook, when it comes time to the content, you can try, kind of do your best with it and try to get better at that each time, 100%.
- [58:13]
A
And I want to just remove pressure. Like, the power of listening to an episode like this and, you know, continuing to listen to content like this and being subscribed is, you know, we're learning, we're leveling up, we're challenging our thinking. But this is a lot. I've got peak empathy. It's like, you know, you've been doing this for years. I've been doing this for years, and we've been just focused on getting 1% better. One of our core values at Think Media is the pursuit of mastery, which is also. It's a pursuit. And perfectionism is an enemy, too. Being stressed of getting everything perfect leads to paralysis, but taking action, taking massive, imperfect action. And I also like what you said. If you doubled your time, because, Nathan, a lot of times people might spend one minute on, like, thinking about the idea for the next video. So guess what? We're asking you. Take two minutes this next week, double your time to take a whole nother minute to review. Maybe more practically, maybe you plan out your video for about five minutes. You'd be shocked that if you spent 10, how much of a difference that could make. And then, yes, I would agree with you. If you lock in step one, just the big idea, and you lock in your title. Like, if we kind of end where we started and we think about, if you're just doing chickens, how many different angles could you do on that? You could say, the chicken coop glow up. You won't believe the before. Or Five Things I do Differently on My Chicken Coop. DIY Mistakes to avoid. Back to big idea. That's. To me, that's like, it just took an idea. Chicken coop update to a big idea, A better idea. Five Things I Do Differently on my Chicken Coop. DIY Mistakes to Avoid. And then thinking of maybe about the hook. Hey, in this video, I have, like, oh, I've made so many mistakes when it comes to raising chickens. I've been doing it for the last five years. I've learned a lot of lessons, and I kind of just want to go through five ideas I wrote down of my chicken coop that I want to avoid. That's it? Yeah, totally. Then, like, go through the ideas just freestyle. But, like, locking that in sets a direction that'll make your content that much more easy to follow. That is the structure. By defining that, the angle and the title and the idea is the five Things I Do Differently on My Chicken Coop. The DIY Mistakes to avoid, you've given yourself confidence and clarity and structure for what the video could become. And so, no, you don't need to then sit down and be like, what is the. The raising conflict in the introduction of a, you know, the villain and in a protagonist and antagonist that comes at minute three for my chicken. I mean, those are cool thoughts, but speed is helpful. And so when you also think about man, that's a good title that I would click on for somebody that wants that promise and that result, that's strong. That is something that I could just. Chicken scratch. No pun intended. Write down the five mistakes because they just come to me naturally because it's something I'm living. But I spent more time to your point. Yes. Back where we started. What's the. What's the angle? What's the topic? How are we going to title that? What's the thumbnail? That could be interesting. And then what am I saying right up front to just let people know that that's what they're about to learn? And you're talking to. Then you're talking to also just friends on the Internet. You're looking in the camera lens. You're talking to one friend like you were sitting down to have coffee. Or the sweet tea on your porch, talking about chickens and just being like, yeah, you know, I made some mistakes over the years. I mean, a couple things that come to mind, number one, number two, number three, and then being thoughtful. And then it's like at the end of your video, you just maybe know ahead of time, you make sure you record and you're like, I hope you enjoyed this video. Click. Subscribe for more stuff from Anderson Farms, where we're just talking all about homesteading and our farm life. And, you know, recently we redid our whole approach to how we're dealing with the cows. Or recently we just redid our whole thing of how we're dealing with the garden. Click or tap the screen if you want to watch that. Then you would have just hit the perfect video recipe. You define the big idea, you thought about your hook, you delivered on the content, you gave a transition to another video. On a simple level, if you use the recipe, it'll work for you. And then our encouragement is it's kind of just like cooking and stay in the kitchen and don't quit. Personally, I'm trying to get better at cooking, and there's been times I've overcooked the chicken. Personally, when you're having friends over and you're barbecuing and you want to cook the perfect steak, but you got into a conversation and you forgot and now your family is about ready to excommunicate you because they like medium rare. But it's not only cooked all the way through, it is a brick. That steak is like rubber. That's frustrating, you know, but you, you gave it a shot. You cooked a meal, you put it out there, people ate it. You lost a few family members. You're repairing those relationships in therapy. But stay in the kitchen, keep cooking, keep posting new videos and, and keep getting 1% better with every upload. Even if you don't nail the recipe perfectly by just having a framework and some structure you can make, you can make changes and improvements over time. That's why we like to say small tweaks lead to giant peaks, there it is.
- [63:23]
B
That's your battle plan. Small creators go forth, think about these things. Take it one video at a time, 1% better with every single upload. If you got value today, hey, like, share rate, review wherever you watch or listen. This is the Think Media podcast. I'm Nathan Eswine, and I can't wait to connect with you in a future episode.