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The Think Media Podcast
441: Why Small Creators Are Making $100K+ While Big Channels Struggle
01:22:33
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- [00:00]
A
Hey, before we jump into the show, I just wanted to take a second and say thank you for listening. I know that life is busy and you have a lot of options when it comes to the content you consume. So whether you're new here or you've been listening to the Think Media podcast for years, I just want to say thank you and I appreciate you. Okay, let's jump into the show. If you're a content creator, the smartest money move you can make. It's launching your own digital course, even if your audience is small yet.
- [00:28]
B
100 people on his email list and a small social media following, and he made $12,000 right out of the gate with his first course. And the reason he was able to do this was two reasons.
- [00:39]
A
Number one, Amy is a New York Times bestselling author and host of one of the top ranked online business podcasts. She has generated over $120 million in revenue.
- [00:49]
B
One of my secrets to success that I teach my students is we're creating one course and then we're going to launch it over and over and over again. You only need a tiny substance sliver of the Internet for you to be profitable. If you sell a course for a thousand dollars and you sell just 10 of them, that is a lot of money.
- [01:07]
A
What would you say is the biggest mistake that people are making right now when it comes to digital courses?
- [01:13]
B
The biggest mistake? I see two things. Number one.
- [01:17]
A
Amy Porterfield, welcome back to the podcast. I'm excited to get super deep and tactical in this episode, but so much has changed in the social media, digital courses, online marketing space. I want to go right into it. One of the hottest topics right now is artificial intelligence, AI, ChatGPT, or perplexity and Gemini and all of these tools that have kind of shifted the landscape. So can you give us sort of a state of the union of what's new and what's now when it comes to digital courses and online marketing and then some of the opportunities with AI.
- [01:55]
B
Yes. So I have been saying for a while that there's a new era of digital courses on the horizon, which makes me very excited because I've been in this world for 16 years and it's time for that new era. And I think what's been ushering in that new era is partly or majorly due to AI. And so before we get into AI, to answer your first question, I think what's happening across online marketing is people are expecting personalization, not just wanting it. I think we've gotten to the point that they are expecting It. And what I mean by that is they want to be able to pitch and catch. They want to be able to ask their questions and get personalized, personalized answers back. They want more than just a community, but those personal touch points within the community. We've seen this over and over again. It's been happening, but I think it's at a bigger place now. And I think when we think of AI, how can AI and personalization kind of make its way into digital courses? Well, this is a thing that I obsess about. So first I need to get it off the table that using AI to create your entire course is the worst decision you can make. Not because you might think, oh, Amy, you're biased. You teach people how to create courses. Listen, I love AI and I want you to use it as a big part of your digital course. But when you use it just to create the course, it is watered down. Your pov, Your point of view is absolutely not in there and you will get lost in the sea of noise. And it's never been more difficult to get noticed online right now. So that's the last thing you want to do. However, using AI with the question of how can I use it internally and externally in order to create more personal touch points is one of the best questions you could ask. And so you want me to share an example of what I mean by that?
- [03:41]
A
Yeah, I would love to hear maybe like a practical. How much time is it saving? What is it actually doing for us? Case study or something like that.
- [03:49]
B
Yes. Okay, this is a great question. So when you think about using AI for, for, let's say to create a course and launch a course, some of the things that take a really long time is to flesh out all of your ideas. Another thing that takes a lot of time is to write all your sales copy to sell your course. Um, another area would be to obviously record your programs. Whether you're going to do it live or pre recorded, that still takes time. So AI can absolutely help with all of that. So when I say don't, like, plug your idea into AI and think that's your course, we don't want to do that. But plugging your AI, your ideas into AI and going back and forth, based on my experience and with my students, you're saving at least 10 hours if you use AI, right? And I teach my students how to use it to get something very specific to their knowledge and skill, you could save roughly 10 hours on creating the course if you use AI. Right. You know, the right prompts and the right tools. Another thing to look at is again that personalization. How can you make your course more profitable? So if the question is how do I make more money with my course, Amy, while building in these personal touch points? So let me give you an example. One example would be when I say look at AI internally with my company, we want coaches reviewing the work of my students like real people, looking at it from their perspective of experience and skill and finding the nuances to help them make it better, whether it's reviewing a webinar or a sales page or a course outline. But there's ways to use your proprietary information as an AI tool internally in your business to, to support those coaches, to now bring it to an entirely new level. That kind of thing saves your coach time, but also allows you to use a tool so your coach is better at what they've done, better than they've ever been. So you start to think about, sure, you can add an AI tool to your course, but you could also use it internally to create a more personalized experience for your students.
- [05:47]
A
What personally AI tool platforms or tools are you using on a day to day basis? ChatGPT do you prefer? Claude, what's the breakdown for you?
- [05:57]
B
So we've used chat GPT and Claude. We just prefer ChatGPT. So I am a, this is how I do everything. I first focus on one platform as long as it's good and I go all in and I become an expert before I move on to something else. So we were dabbling with both, but we've gone all in with ChatGPT. It's. We're working on AI agents. It's something that we use consistently. We just created a thing called Write like Amy and it essentially is all of the things that I've written, all of my newsletters, all of my podcast scripts, everything, and all of our emails and sales pages and all of that. But we want the whole team to use it if they're ever speaking in my voice. And so things like that are become just a norm in our business. But it's interesting, Sean. It's something that I have to encourage if me as the founder, if I'm not on the forefront of it and then I don't see my team adopting it as much as I want them to. So I've had to be like the example and really encourage it. I've paid for trainings for them. I'm in an AI mastermind, like it's a big deal to us.
- [07:00]
A
You are a content creator yourself. Does AI come into your workflow when you're creating a new podcast episode.
- [07:07]
B
Every AI comes through in our workflow with everything. And so with a podcast, we have a special GPT all about podcast titles. We have another one about how to find the best questions to ask a guest. We have another one for my solo episodes. So we've trained it to ask the right questions and pull in the right information, and it has been a game changer for us. Now it still makes. I still have to push myself to say, okay, is this as good as it can get? Like, where is. Where. Where's the Amy in all of this? Even though it's trained to write like me, I still want to give it that personal touch, but it sure gets us there a whole lot faster.
- [07:43]
A
I want to come back to what you said. Pov. You said it quickly. You said pov, your point of view. And then we kind of moved on. Because the downside of AI is everyone has access to it. Solid, or at least decent information is now at everybody's fingertips. But POV is this unique factor. This is that unfair advantage. What are some of the aspects of listeners figuring out their own pov, their point of view, articulating it? Why is it important? And how does that also make somebody ultimately different so they can stand out?
- [08:16]
B
Okay, I love this topic. So we've been talking about it a lot because as you just said, AI does not have a POV like the listeners here do. And number one, even without AI, when you want to become known for something in the online space, you have to have a strong point of view. And by point of view, I mean what are your ideas, your experiences, your thoughts, your skills, your insight around a specific topic? And one of the most important things you can do, whether we're talking about courses or AI or taking it off the table, is to become known for something. So when a group of entrepreneurs are in a room talking about, you know, I really want to create a digital course, it's not ego saying this. I have. I have earned it over 16 years, but my name will be in that conversation. I have no doubt. The reason for that is I have had a strong point of view of the value and the benefits of creating a digital course in your business. And I talk about it everywhere. And sometimes, Sean, I think, sometimes I get tired of talking about it. Like, I've talked about it for a long time. AI makes it more fun. Now, it's a whole other conversation we can have, but I just know what it can do for people. So even on a day I might be Bored answering the same question. I'm there for it because I know what it can do for my students. So my point of view is layered in all the years of experience and all the different things and all the mistakes that I've made. But you have to talk about it a lot. And when you do, not only do you become known for something, you then start to open doors. So, oh, we need someone to speak on stage about courses. Call Amy. We need someone on a podcast. Call Amy. Like, that's the stuff that my students truly want. They want their name to be thrown in the mix. And so a strong point of view that you use across all channels is essential. And if you want to beat AI, if you don't want to be watered down, then that is what you're bringing to the table in everything that you do. And that is something that AI cannot replace.
- [10:14]
A
I want to talk a little bit about the evolution of a brand. I would agree with you. And maybe some individuals are meeting you for the first time, but you step into this online marketing world, into the digital course creation world, and you are like the gold standard. You're exactly right. Your name comes up in these conversations. Over a decade, you've built that brand. But I noticed something on your social media recently. You articulated that you were making a pivot in some of the topics you're talking about on your podcast. And a mutual friend of ours, Rory Vaden, also does talk about their seasons of a brand evolution. And the power of niching down at the start or becoming. What do you want to be known for at the start is critical to breaking through. You become known for people who started to meet Sean cannell because of YouTube, how to start a YouTube channel, how to grow a YouTube channel. But as my brand has evolved, many individuals might say, but you're talking about different things. You're talking about faith, you're talking about online business. Yes.
- [11:09]
B
Working out.
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A
There's. Yeah, there's something about breaking. Yeah. Working out, getting shredded, you know, and all these different things that kind of get added on. I'm curious how you think about seasons, if you were giving advice to someone who's just starting versus at a much more mature and evolved, you know, place in their career like you. But then personally, what's this transformation that you've been going through and. And how much is it personal and how much is it also strategic because of what you're seeing happening in the landscape?
- [11:41]
B
Oh, I love that question. So I come from the philosophy that you should earn your elevation. And what I mean by that is, when you want to elevate your brand after a few years, you typically want to make sure you've earned it. You have to be known for something. Just like Sean is known for YouTube and I'm known for courses. There is power in that. And how do you get there? Years and years of staying in your lane. So that's the discipline. You know, Alex Hormozi talks a lot about discipline. That is the discipline that I will subscribe to all day long. But once you've done that and you know, you might say, how many years, Amy? Or how long? You'll know. You'll know that, okay, I'm in my lane. I am known for this. You don't have to be the top 1 or 2%, but you are well known. And once that happens, what typically happens personally is you start to be called to. You want to elevate, you want to expand, you see opportunities. So I'll give you an example. For me, I have taught digital courses for many, many, many, many years. And it wasn't until last year that I finally said, you know what? I'm ready to work with a small group that wants to build multimillion dollar businesses, whether it's courses, memberships, coaching. In my world, I've had experience with all. I'm ready to take the next step. Five years ago, I would have never been ready to do that $30,000 mastermind with 20 people. I've never done anything like that before, but I knew I was ready based on my experience and my desire for something different. The desire for something different or variety. It happens at every stage, but you have to control it for a little while. You don't want to be hopping everywhere, not being known for anything. So it's that discipline. You'll feel it and you're thinking, okay, I'm ready. So to answer your question, yes, it's personal. The, the evolution that I've taken our elevation in my brand. I 16 years in and I'm ready to start expanding and helping people in a bigger way. That doesn't mean I'd ever ditch what I'm known for, but I'd like to add to that. And so for me, it's, I want to be in a coaching setting. Small group coaching, mastermind, smaller groups, but bigger results. So I personally feel called. But then I also looked at my audience and thought, oh, these people have been growing with me. I have some people who've been with me 10 years, I don't have anything to offer them. I'm ready. I think My audience is ready. Let's go together. So it was a nice dance between the two that I was able to find.
- [14:04]
A
And can you articulate the pivot in your own words of what it was and what it is now?
- [14:10]
B
Great question. So what it was is I help people build businesses using their knowledge and know how by creating digital courses and launching them online. That's what it was and probably still is in many ways. What it is, or what I would like it to be is I help people. I help more women than men, but I've got a lot of men in my audience. I help people build businesses online based on their knowledge and know how, period. Meaning not just in digital courses or another way to look at it is I help people build million dollar businesses. The million dollar part. Sean, I want to mention I'm not a girl that thinks like, you have to have tons and tons of money and roll around in it and show your Lamborghinis and all of that. You know me enough to know I'm not that. However, I do believe that when you make your own money, you create your own freedom. And I'm really big on lifestyle freedom and having choices and opportunities is a really important thing to me. And when you have wealth, you're able to have more choices and opportunities and do wonderful things with that money. So I'm never going to shy away with from. I hope people make money.
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A
I love that. And I would last. Part of this would be the math, meaning how many podcast episodes did you do? You mentioned 16 years.
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B
Yeah.
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A
Which doesn't have to be the math for everybody, but I want our listeners to hear that. It's a very powerful statement. People have been doing this for 16 weeks and they're like, am I ready to elevate my brand? And so 16 years. But you kind of have been going through a topic change, topic expansion and elevation in your content. How many episodes in did this were you in your podcast now?
- [15:46]
B
Okay, so I have a. I had a podcast called Online Marketing Made Easy and I've since retired it. Part of the Evolution or the Elevation? I gotta get my words right, but they're kind of both right now. But I had over 700 podcast episodes on Online Marketing Made Easy and we switched over to the Amy Porterfield show and only on 23. And in some ways it feels like I'm starting from scratch, even though I know I'm not. But, yeah, over 700. And when I tell people, one of the things that I talk about is I generated over $120 million in revenue primarily from my own courses. I say 16 years. The bulk of that probably came from the last five to seven. So that's another thing. I wasn't making tons and tons of money right from the get go. And my first two years of business were a disaster. I think every day I thought, I'm going to have to beg for my 9 to 5 job back. This. This is not what I thought it was. And so I think that's great for you to point out. Many, many, many podcasts before I was ever known for anything.
- [16:45]
A
That's beautiful. So the recent pivot too was actually letting go of a name, letting go of a previous show, and launching a new brand in a new show.
- [16:53]
B
Yeah. So that's like a big deal. So online Marketing Made Easy is what I've been known for in terms of my podcast. And it also attracts a very, very, very new audience, which is okay. I have tons of newbies in my audience. But what it didn't do is attract the next group of women and men that I would like to serve. And so I knew something needed to change there, but it was a huge risk. It's not like my new podcast. The minute it went off, it like took off twice as big. I didn't expect that. I actually expect a smaller audience in the next few years, but just at at a bigger opportunities for them. We'll see. The show's doing just as good as the old one. It's just not like five times better. That wasn't really my point. I also kept it in the same feed, which helps a lot.
- [17:39]
A
Yes. Love these insights. And for our Think Media podcast community, the thought is thinking about the evolution of your own brand branding, when to pivot. But for a lot of us, when to stay disciplined and to stay in our lane, build that momentum and earn your elevation. I love that quote. What would you say is the biggest mistake that people are making right now when it comes to digital courses?
- [18:03]
B
The biggest mistake? I see two things. Number one is that they are not taking the selling vehicle serious enough. So what I'll hear is, amy, no one's buying my course, but it's on my website, which will never work. No one's coming. Not they're not seeking it out from a website. Number two is like, well, I sent out a few emails, I posted about it on social. As you and I know, Sean, that is not enough for most people. And so getting serious about how you're promoting and then continuing to promote. One of my secrets to success that I teach my students is we're creating one course and then we're going to launch it over and over and over again. I have launched the same course since 2019 and every year it gets bigger because I get better at teaching it and better at marketing it and better at attracting the right audience to it. So one of the biggest mistakes is creating a course once and then jumping off to the next thing. So that's the second one. The first one is not having a selling vehicle that you really get good at. 2 is creating it and launching it once and moving on to something else. I want you to launch it 10 times. And then the third thing is thinking that having too many offers. So a lot of times when I work with my students I'll say we need to strip this down. You have way too many things going on where you're not focused on one thing enough to get really good at it.
- [19:23]
A
Strong insights and I'm curious on the the selling promotion side, you know when it comes to stats from think like Google when it comes to best practices in online marketing there's this old phrase that would say the law of seven that people need seven exposures to your brand messaging but for the last few years it's been completely disproven. Think with Google will reveal that. No it's it's 29 touch points or the 7114 rul. It's like seven you know across 11 different messaging places four platforms. You know there's mult bottom line is is the math is is going up and I guess what I'm asking for is there's still future is bright to launch and create a digital course to change people's lives to make money doing it. But it feels like we're in an environment where it takes a lot more rigor and where we need to have realistic expectations. To your point you send one email, you do one social post. That's not the world we're living in anymore. It's. It's kind of multi platform it nurture. Right. What is your experience with that shift that has been taking place and how you think of a holistic online presence but bring it down to the individual that's also like well I don't have a team that's helping me respond in manychat or I don't even, I don't even know how to set up manychat and DM automation and all of this feels very overwhelming. So how can this increase amount of sales and promotion need actually be solved for people that are starting up?
- [21:01]
B
Yeah, I love this question because you're right, it's taking. It's actually what we're seeing is buying habits in digital course students, membership students, coaching students. They're just taking longer to buy. So what you just said makes perfect sense. But I want to remind people who are listening that you only need a tiny sliver of the Internet to pay attention for you to be profitable, whether it be courses or anything else. So if you sell a course for a thousand dollars and you sell just 10 of them, that is a lot of money, especially for someone just starting out. So you're right. You've got to set really clear expectations and be careful about that. My biggest mistake, Sean, when I was starting out is that I would look at what everyone else was doing, assume they were making hundreds of thousands of dollars, look at my bank account and instantly say I wasn't cut out to do this. And first of all, we have no idea. And we all know the backside of some people's businesses is not as shiny as the front, but also it just doesn't matter. So knowing that, yeah, in the beginning, it's going to take more work and more time to start seeing those numbers get bigger and bigger. But they don't need to be huge in the beginning. You don't need to be making the kind of money that I'm making. I have a team of 20 people serving how we serve our, serving our students. So right now, as a one woman, as a one man show, $10,000 for a first launch. I hope you're celebrating and you're realizing I don't need tons of people to pay attention. You're a one man or a woman show. That means pay attention to as many touch points as you can. If you can get in the DMs and just have the conversations way better than you posting 10 times a week on social media. So just think about where those 10 or where those touch points, that's where you want to be spending your time.
- [22:43]
A
I want to cover the course math. I want to talk about identifying what's the best course for us. I want to dive into a lot of tactics and some of the new stuff that is working in digital courses now. But before we get there for some listeners, they might want to take advantage of some of the deeper dive trainings that you have going on. There's two things that we'll link up in the show notes. First is you have a boot camp. What even is a boot camp and what's going to be happening on that and we'll make sure to link this up in the show notes, but break that down. Amy.
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B
So I do a bootcamp once a year called Course Competent. It's my most favorite thing I do. And it's for anyone who's thinking about creating a course, not sure if it's right for them, what it might look like, what topic would I do, how much would I charge, what kind of course would I create? I address all of that in a bootcamp. So bootcamp is essentially a short period of time where I show up live. I teach you what you need to know to kickstart your experience, and I show you what it will take to make this happen. And so there's a lot of live interaction. We have a lot of fun in it, and it goes by really quickly, but you walk away knowing, okay, this is right for me. Or maybe not. So it's just 47 bucks. It's the cheapest thing I offer all year, and I do it just once a year.
- [23:58]
A
Okay, amazing. So depending on when you're listening to this, that it starts, it stops, and it's over. So. So you could check out the link in the show notes and if that's something you want to research, highly recommended. If you want to go a little bit deeper on that and into some of these topics. Which brings me to this idea of email marketing and this idea of one. How do you start, grow, and think about an email list? But what. How many people do we really need on an email list for it to be effective? Like, what kind of numbers? Because to your point, again, we're looking around comparing ourselves to others, which is not helpful. But we just think somebody, they must have millions of followers and they got a hundred thousand people on their email list. What's like, the real what's working with email marketing and what it takes?
- [24:46]
B
Okay, I love this question. What's working with email marketing? I want to address that first. So we've studied this a lot. I teach list growth, and I do it in my business every single day. And recently, we've really become obsessed with personal newsletters. Now, what I mean by personal is essentially, you're adding a little bit of your personal life with a little bit of your business life, and you're kind of combining them together just to show a different side of you. So typically, this works great if you're your own personal brand, but to be quite honest, I think it works great with businesses as well. I've seen it both ways. Every Tuesday, we send out a newsletter to our entire audience, and I always tell a personal story that I write on my Own. This is the kind of the kicker here. I do this. I don't care if I have a team of 20 or not. It's important that it comes from me. So I write the story every week. Something of a lesson I've learned a big mistake. I've made an embarrassment I had usually all related to business. Then I give some tips of resources, news articles, news videos related to online marketing. And then I tend to teach one thing. This week I taught how to write a really good hook for an email or social media post. And then I tell one silly story, typically about my life, usually about my husband who's a little bit weird and does weird stuff. So I usually tell that story. So that's what the newsletter is. And it has worked so well. Our open rates have skyrocketed and and versus in the past I would just send an email every week saying I've got a new podcast. Here's what it's about. Go check it out. So what's working right now in email marketing, again, I said it from the beginning, is getting more personal, inviting people in, and getting a little scrappy with how you do it. The newsletter doesn't look beautiful. It doesn't have a designed header, really real and raw. And I think also that is working really well. So that's one thing that I wanted to bring up. But you asked a great question. What does it take? Like how many people do you have to have on your email list in order to, let's say, be successful to sell a digital course? Let me tell you a quick story. This is not an anomaly. I've seen this over and over. But this is one of my favorite stories. I have a student named Rob Green, and Rob Green is a photographer and he photographs college students, like when they're graduating or high school students when they're graduating. So he's in person, in your face, doing his thing. However, he had an idea for a digital course and it was to teach people how to make a flash photography look like natural light. So take flash photography. How does he make it look like natural light? He knows a million things about photography, but this was that one thing that he did really well. So he created a digital course. Never created a course in his life, never sold anything online. He had 100 people on his email list and a small social media following. And he made $12,000 right out of the gate with his first course. And the reason he was able to do this was two reasons. Number one, he created what I call a Spotlight course. A Spotlight course is to Take one area of your expertise and go deep on it. The course doesn't need to be super long, just as long. Just give them what they need to get the results you're promising. But it cut through the noise. He didn't teach photography for beginners. He didn't teach everything he knows about photographing students. One specific thing that someone's like, oh, I want that. And that's why it was so successful. Another reason is he engaged with his email list. He only had a hundred people on it, but he would reply when they would say something. He'd get in a conversation with them. He knew these people, and they were ready to buy when he was ready to sell.
- [28:09]
A
What kind of price point for a Spotlight course? And I'm sure it could be a range of lengths, but how long are we talking?
- [28:15]
B
So typically, price point around a Spotlight course is between 2 and $500. That's typically where it lands in a really sweet spot. And how long? A lot of times people say, well, how many modules, how many videos? And I always say, as. Do as few as possible to get the results you're promising. Sean, one of the challenges with anything you create online now is that people's attention span is wildly short. Like, it freaks me out a little bit. And so what I teach my students is, let's say you need five videos to teach whatever it is you're going to teach, or, excuse me, five hours to teach whatever it is you're going to teach. Let's make each of those videos 15 to 20 minutes. Let's make people feel like they're getting a quick win as they go through your program. Because if not, if they see a video that's an hour long, like 10 years ago, when I created courses, I had tons of videos that were hour long. No one ever complained. Today, they would never watch it. So give them those quick wins. Make those videos short. It's a little trick to get people to the finish line faster.
- [29:15]
A
Quick break. If you've been thinking about creating a course but you're stuck on what to teach, how to price it, and how to build an audience that's ready to buy, Amy has a free online class that will walk you through the entire process. To get access to it, just go to digital course class. Com. It's 60 minutes, totally free, and it's going to help you map out your first or next course, even if your audience is small. So to get access, just go to digitalcourseclass.com or use the link in the show notes to get access and Start today. And this is taking kind of a step back, but for listeners, you know, in our community, we want to build YouTube channels. We are probably heavy text message, SMS and there's can be that mindset of email, email marketing. Is it really that effective? What is the importance of email? Okay, is it?
- [30:07]
B
Yes.
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A
Is it? Yeah. Is it just like take it or leave it or is it a fundamental foundation of success in digital courses?
- [30:14]
B
I would venture to say I think it's the most important asset in your business. Definitely is in mine. And so many of my peers like the number one most important asset. And here's why. Social media is fickle. You are competing with the algorithms. Maybe you're going to be shown, maybe you're not. The, the consensus is 4% of the people that follow you are actually going to see a post, which is horrific. Now you might argue, but Amy, you know, there's a lot of things like people send out emails that get stuck in the promotion folder or the spam folder or different things like that definitely happens. But the rate of engagement from an email versus social media is four times. Like people are four times more likely to take action with an email than they ever will with a social media post. That is important. Also you own it. You own your email list. No one can take it away. But that Instagram, I just had a friend yesterday that says, he said he's had his Instagram down for a month. He like doesn't even promote on it and it just went down. Imagine if his whole business was built on that. I always say don't build your business on rented land. Social media is rented land. You are not guaranteed it. So having your email list, building those relationships, having your personal newsletter, I'm telling you, if you do this right, there is a whole other opportunity of revenue for you that right now you are leaving on the table.
- [31:32]
A
So if I'm a YouTube creator or an entrepreneur, online business owner and I'm creating YouTube content to build my business and meet the right people.
- [31:43]
B
Yeah.
- [31:43]
A
What are the best freebies working today that I could offer during my free content?
- [31:52]
B
Yes.
- [31:53]
A
That would actually get people excited and actually get people opting in and actually delivering value and results to lead to that end goal where if it's right for them and it's a good fit, that our products, offers and services could.
- [32:07]
B
Be the conclusion, hands down, a quiz. And it's been that way for a few years now. When last time we talked, I might have said the same thing has not changed. So let's talk about this quiz, assessment Whatever you want to call it. But the reason why quizzes work so well. And for some reason, they're very cheap to run ads to. I'm not sure why that is. It's just a fact. But the reason they work so well is we love to talk about ourselves. We love to say what we love, what we're like, and then we love to get information that says more about us. That's why people take the Enneagram. Oh, I'm a three. Oh, by the way, what are you, Sean.
- [32:38]
A
Okay, side quest. But not only do I report as a three.
- [32:42]
B
Yeah.
- [32:43]
A
And I've thought that for years, but I was having a conversation with my friend Bethany, who's very deep, and she goes, you know what? I think you might be a four. She goes, I thought I was a one, but I ended up being a nine. I go, hold on. Are you allowed to change? She goes, yeah, yeah. Like, she goes, and sometimes you're actually wearing a mask because of trauma or because of coping or because. And so. And so turns out. And of course, talking to Chat GPT as a therapist all the time, and Chat GPT has all these memories and knowledge of me. I present that. And ChatGPT goes, Whoa, that's probably true. Wow. And it's like, when I think about you. Yeah, you're probably, like, trying to be an achiever, and you're thinking about image, and you're thinking about that enneagram3 stuff, but when, in fact, you're actually kind of deep and sort of melancholy and you overthink things.
- [33:35]
B
So deep. Yes. Yes, you are. Okay, I'm kind of agreeing with this right now, so. Okay. But look how cool that exchange was. We didn't even plan that. But the minute I said an assessment that he knew, boom, we're in this conversation. And we love to talk about, like, I'm a three, you're a four, and all of that. And so that's what a quiz will do for your audience. So when you create a quiz, they answer a bunch of questions. Now, you've just received a ton of information about your audience is, like, the coolest thing ever. But then you can give them information about themselves that allow them to make decisions, do something better, move in a different direction, whatever it is your topic is. But here's the cool thing about that. When you give them their information now, you get to give them their marching orders. So, Sean, this is what it says about you being a four before. So here's what you can do now in order to take that to the next Level that do now might be go listen to your. Go watch your YouTube video. Go listen to your podcast. Go buy this program from me, whatever it might be. I use it in tons of different ways. So hands down allowing people to learn more about themselves and get into those conversations. It could be such a fun social media thing. DM me, let me know where you landed. I have a. One of my students did one. I'm going to get this wrong, but it's something like are you a cat, fox dog or something else? And you're like, I want to know if I'm a fox or not. Like. So you take this quiz and then she has you DM her and you get to talk about it. So you can also make it fun and kind of curiosity based.
- [35:03]
A
Okay, before we move on, cause I want to talk about reverse engineering the online course math of even a hundred thousand dollars a year, which sounds perhaps crazy as a side hustle maybe while somebody's got their full time job. So we'll cover that in a second. But I can't move on without hearing your enneagram number.
- [35:19]
B
Okay, so why I totally related to you. For years I thought I was a two with a three wing helper forever. And when people would talk about it too, I'd be like, that's not me. I actually think I'm a little bit more selfish than twos are. But when you said trauma, absolutely. Some things have happened in my life where I could see me going very much to the people pleaser helper kind of mode. And so after I did some healing and some therapy, I took it again. I took the actual quiz again. Clearly three, two, so. And I fully identify with that.
- [35:52]
A
Wow. So we're, we're all, we're on a healing path. And I think listeners might realize too it's all a journey. And I didn't know we were going to talk about trauma and healing today as we're talking about digital courses. But I'm enjoying this conversation and I do want to talk about a hundred thousand dollars for listeners especially and why I love having you on the podcast. When we think about the fact that YouTube will pay you for views and you can get monetized once you get a thousand subscribers, 4,000 hours of watch time. The trouble is is not only does it go up and down, but if you're going to make any significant amount of revenue, you need millions of views and you need a high CPM and a high RPM and it can be really cool. And eventually as your brand grows. I'm so grateful for the fact that YouTube is the best paying platform by far. However, once you get into your own products, your own services, building up your email list and having your own offers, the path to a hundred thousand dollars, let's say, in 12 months, is a lot closer than people realize. Now, this podcast. I know your brand. My brand is not get rich quick. It's not. We're not trying to overhype things, but there's a real practical path to this, and it's a lot more common than I think most people realize. How does that break down? And you have your students, maybe case studies, and realistically, I'm sure some people shoot out of the gate and their first launch, you know, is wild. But also, as we build this up, you mentioned your first two years in business were a disaster. That's very encouraging. Yes, I think we could relate to that. We. We. Again, we're all thinking, like, on my first video, my first launch, my first product. So maybe the steps to it, what is maybe just a practical path of what it might look like over the next few months, but even call it the next few years to reverse Engineer back from $100,000 with digital courses.
- [37:50]
B
Yes. Okay, so I'm not good at math on the fly, but I am good at kind of breaking this down. So I won't get specific into numbers, but you'll get the whole concept. One time I tried to do math on camera, and you would be so embarrassed. Wait, was it with you that I tried? I think it was. Don't do this to me, John. I'm not good. But the concept. The concept is very important. So let's say you want to make $100,000 in your business, and let's say that all through 2026, we'll even move forward. So my goal is $100,000. What most people don't do is break things up at the very specific offer level. This is the mistake I've seen made. And if you just start to run the numbers very specifically, one is like, oh, that was different than I thought, and I might want to move some things around. So here's what I mean. Let's say you have a digital course, and it's $1,000. And like I said, your first launch, you sell 10 of them. So right now you've got $10,000. What typically happens when you follow my model or a really proven model, Every launch gets better and better. So if you launch three times a year, which I encourage my students to do, the first one, maybe you make 10,000. Second one, there's no doubt in my mind you can double that third one, let's just say you triple it. So you've got 10,000, then 20,000 and then 30, which is a lot of money right there. But you're not going to get if you're just launching a course for the first time. I never over promise. I don't think you're going to make a hundred thousand dollars your first year if you have a really small audience. If you have a bigger audience, of course, all day long. And some of my students have proved me wrong, but I also don't want to bank on that. So now you want to think, okay, well what can I do to close the gap? So that's when it comes into group coaching, one on one consulting, small group mastermind, whatever it might be. There's so many other opportunities that don't require you to create a whole new course. You don't need a whole new membership. Also YouTube, there's, you know, if your students are learning how to build those YouTube channels, there's going to be revenue that eventually will come in. So you want to think of, okay, maybe my YouTube revenue, maybe some of my one on one coaching, then my course, it may be affiliate marketing. That's another way that I tell my students, kind of fill the gap when I say affiliate marketing. It might be I promote a course like Sean has a course and I'm promoting it as an affiliate. Or it might be, you know, I love membership IO I use it all the time. So I tell all my students they should use it. That's an affiliate marketing that starts to add up throughout the year. So what I want your listeners to do is sit down and map it out like what actually feels possible. But here's the little trick. I'm getting a little nuanced here, but let's say once you map it out first, launch 10,000, second 23rd, 30, and then you're filling in. How many students do you need to have to make $30,000? So you need 30 people to buy. Well, if you start to learn about conversion rates, I know I'm going a little deep here, but a webinar, if you do a really good webinar, you might hit 10%. So how many people do you need on that webinar for you to sell? 10% to start hitting your numbers? Like we have to start looking at those numbers. And that's like I'm on a crusade with this because I don't think people get down to the details enough. So I think that's really important. But I brought up my computer here because I just did a training where I shared something that I want to share. I know your audience can't see it, but I have a student, her name is Hadar, and Hadar lives in Israel, and she teaches people how to speak. Let me read. It specifically helps non native speakers of English speak English with clarity, confidence, and freedom. So essentially it's around the accent so people can understand what you're saying. So this is what she does in a digital course. The first time she launched it, she wasn't making much money and didn't know how to do it. So she started using my model. And when she started using my model, the first real successful launch, $109,000. Now, that's a lot of money, but let's pretend it was 10,000. Let's just pretend the next time she made 131, she made a little bit more. So just put it in your own numbers. Then 155, then 235, then 343,000, then 499. What I'm showing here is you don't need to make those big numbers. She might have a bigger email list or community, but what she did is she stuck with one thing. And each time it got bigger and bigger and bigger. That's the secret to hitting 100k, not ditching one idea because it didn't do as big as you thought it would. That's the part that I think is the most important.
- [42:23]
A
That's such a powerful insight, and it's hard to stick with one thing as creative it is. We have lots of ideas. There's so many different things we want to talk about, and usually we're not even done with the first thing we're creating before we have ideas for three or more, you know, three or more ideas. I was talking to somebody at a meetup once, and I was excited about their enthusiasm because I was like, what are you working on? And they're like, I'm writing a book. I'm actually writing three books. And it was. I was like, oh, it's encouraging. You feel inspired. But that's a big red flag. I was like, you're writing three. How about we get one book done? You. You have a New York Times bestselling book. You know, I wrote the book with my friend Benji. YouTube Secrets. It's so hard to write a book that's so hard. Impactful.
- [43:09]
B
So hard.
- [43:09]
A
Don't write three books.
- [43:11]
B
That's a nightmare.
- [43:12]
A
Yeah. And. And same thing, I think, with an online course but then only that, like, even if you get it done and published and out there to stick with it and then just compound it over years. It's a very powerful insight, which I do want to talk a little bit about course topics because I'm sure our synapses are firing as we're listening to this conversation and we're having ideas. But we might be in one of two camps. One, I don't really know what I would make my course about or if there's even a course topic people would buy. Or two, I actually feel pretty convicted. This is what I think I would make it on, when in fact that actually might be something that's not going to be successful. What's like the filter test for choosing the right course topic. But let's be blunt, also choosing a course topic that people will actually buy, not just a creative idea in my own mind, but something that there's market demand for. It's positioned in such a way that it could change lives, but also be financially successful.
- [44:14]
B
Yes. I love this question because I created something called the course creation sweet spot. There's four quadrants and essentially it helps you. It's your initial step into could this actually work for me? So the first one is your knowledge and your know how. Especially if some beginners are listening. You might think, amy, I don't know enough. I need to go back to college. I need more certifications, I need more years. Amy, you've done it for 16 years. Sean, how long have you done it.
- [44:38]
A
For YouTube since 2007 and fake media since 2010. So it's like coming up on 20 years.
- [44:44]
B
Come on, you look too young. So, yeah, we've been doing it for. So you might say, I don't have that many years. But remember, we started with a whole lot less experience than we have now. So what I tell my students is you need a 10% edge. You need the knowledge and know how to at least get results for yourself. And you know how you got those results or for somebody else or both. And so you don't need to have taught it for years and years. You need to know how to get results for people because you have proof you've done it for yourself or someone else. That's the first quadrant. And that could just be you're 10% ahead of those you serve. One of the best teachers is someone that's very close to what it took to get those results. Like, oh my gosh, I was there just a year ago. I know how to get you out of that. There's power in that. So that's the first quadrant. The second quadrant is what are the challenges or desires of your audience and are you meeting those? So you've got to get really clear if you have this idea like Amy, I want to teach xyz. Well, does your audience care about that? Do they want that? Some people will come into my world and they'll say, I want to teach happiness. And that is way too broad. And also, you're going to get lost in the sea but of noise online. But if someone said, I wake up every morning and I don't feel grateful, I want to learn how to feel more grateful, then we're onto something. We're getting more specific, but we need to understand what is their challenge or desire. Usually the easier way to go is what is their challenge. If you can meet someone's challenge with a solution, you're. You're in the zone. The third quadrant is the profit opportunity. What will people pay for? So if you're creating something that you've never seen anyone pay for it, let's not create that as our first course. I want to know or do people pay for coaching and masterminds and consulting? Are there podcasts about it? Are there YouTube channels about it? Is there this desire to take in this knowledge? And more importantly, have people paid to get the results that you're promising or something similar? Very important. If the answer is no, I don't want you to do this as your first course at least. It's very hard to convince people when you're new at this. The fourth and final one is the most important that often gets overlooked. I've been absolutely guilty of this. One time I created a course about Facebook ads when I was so done with teaching Facebook ads, and I hated every minute of it and it never saw the light of day. You have to choose a topic that lights you up just because you've been in the job for 20 years and you know HR, you don't have to teach that in your course. It has to light you up because it's hard and the days are long. And when you feel like you've been, you know, ran over by a truck, if you love that topic, you'll get back up. So that part is really important. So those are the four quadrants where you start to find your sweet spot.
- [47:29]
A
I'm curious one. It's been exciting to see how you've talked about earning your elevation. You're tapping into a fresh wave of passion as you've expanded your brand, but you've also for 16 years talked about the same thing.
- [47:43]
B
Yeah.
- [47:44]
A
I think even for the most seasoned listeners of the podcast right now, they probably find ebbs and flows of something they're genuinely passionate about, but they try to relight their fire on it. I think about it. I'm in a rebuild of our core YouTube course right now, and I. I am obsessed with YouTube. I truly geek out about it, but if I'm honest, there's some days where I'm like, okay, yeah, I. I've. Yeah, I've been talking about this for a long time.
- [48:11]
B
That question a hundred times.
- [48:12]
A
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, that's true. On a Q and A. You keep. It can feel like Groundhog's Day when you have your niche, you have your lane, and. And that can kick in after a few months, even a few years for people who are serious. They're listening to this, but they want maybe some tools or mindset hacks for. How have you kept your fire bright for 16 years about digital courses?
- [48:37]
B
I don't make it all about my business, and this part's important. I have a beautiful marriage with a wonderful man. I have a great stepson who's been in my life since he was 4. We live in this wonderful place in Nashville. I love my life. So if I have to answer a question a hundred times around a topic I love, but sometimes, yeah, it's a lot, I will answer that question a hundred times. I'm very clear on the life that I want and what I want just in general. I like to be the best, Sean. I like to win. I like to try new strategies and see if they work. So if that means there's a lot of mundane things in there as well, I'm totally here for it. I do what it takes to get what I want. And I know, Shawn, this is not going to be maybe your audience, but Sex and the City, you know the show, right? Charlotte is one of the characters. And one day someone asked charlotte, do you love your husband every single day? Like, this woman was having problems in her marriage. Do you love your husband every day? And she said, I don't like him every day. I don't like him every day, but I love him all the time. That's how I feel about my business. I don't like it every day. I don't like to do some of the things, but I love what I do and the people I serve. And more importantly, I love the life that I have. So I will do that stuff if it gets me to what I truly want. So know what you Want.
- [49:56]
A
So it sounds like there really is it. It might not be the correct correlation, but it does make me think of, like, cognitive behavioral therapy or kind of like, you know, belief, feeling, and then action. So if I'm understanding, and I could be off here, but if I'm understanding, it's like, okay, when it comes to content creation, business building, building an online business, it's maybe a mistake for us to think we're. We're lacking passion, so maybe we need a change. We're lacking the spark, so maybe something's wrong. We have to change everything and completely rebrand ourselves, when in fact, the thought process and internal process we may need to go through that you're going through is, okay, what is it you want, though? And what's. What's the vision? What's the why? What's the bigger picture?
- [50:44]
B
Yes.
- [50:45]
A
And once you get clear on your marriage, your goals, the life you want to create, then you're now looking at the current hard work you don't feel like doing today necessarily at a 10 out of 10, but the passion level is raised, and you're able to summon that discipline that you need because of that. Am I. Am I articulating that clearly?
- [51:07]
B
Oh, spot on, my friend. Sounds like a man who totally understands.
- [51:13]
A
And for you, is there a process? There's a lot of individuals. The clarity question's tough because I think on the one hand, it's such a simple question. What do you want?
- [51:24]
B
Oh, it's so hard, though. So hard.
- [51:26]
A
And. And so is there a few journal prompts or whatever, somebody right now they're listening and. And maybe they're like, yeah, I think I know what I want. But maybe they're actually like, well, now that you're Sean and Amy, you're asking me what I. I don't know, actually. I mean, do I just. Do I want just more views on YouTube? Do I just want more money? Like, I don't know. What. What do I want?
- [51:45]
B
Okay, I have an exercise for you. Mel Robbins did this. Mel Robbins had a friend group, a text friend group, where she had us write down five things we wanted every single day. Now, five was a lot, so let's make it easy. Let's do three. I really struggled with it. So three things every day for the next 30 days. What do you want? And your goal is not to keep repeating the same ones. You could repeat a little, but you got to expand. And so it might be, I want a hundred thousand YouTube views. It might mean I want such and such on my email list, but it Also might mean I want a farm in Nashville, whatever it is, but for 30 days, put it in your phone. Three things every morning. What do you want? And after 30 days, I want you to look at that list and I want you to take a virtual highlighter. What are the ones that stand out the most? What are the ones that you couldn't help but repeat? And I'm going to tell you right now, it's one of the hardest exercises I've ever done, but it's so worth it.
- [52:38]
A
Okay, so you. You lessened it for us, but I know the Think Media podcast, we are not timid or weak. We are goal getters. We. We are ambitious and we like doing hard things. And so are we doing five? Five. That. So that would be 150 things we want. You're saying the exercise is for 30 days. Every day you're writing down five things and you're trying not to repeat.
- [53:02]
B
You're trying not to. Yes.
- [53:04]
A
Oh, if I was to. Day one. This is funny. The first thing that came to mind. What is. What is five things you want every day? The first thing that came to mind was like, I want coffee.
- [53:13]
B
Okay, good. See, so this is good. You could keep it simple like that with your gut every day. What comes up for you?
- [53:19]
A
So, I mean, I was like, coffee. You're like, I want a farm in Nashville. I'm like, I just want a good cup of coffee. But are you overthinking when you do this exercise in the sense of aspir? You know, I want deep meaning and connection in my relationships. It's like, I just want some Greek yogurt and some organic blueberries.
- [53:38]
B
I think we need to do a little bit of both.
- [53:41]
A
Okay.
- [53:41]
B
Yeah.
- [53:42]
A
And so, and so what were some of the. We'll move on after this. But, like, what, when you found, were you finding, like, is it. Was it things like, you know, presence or connection or a healthy culture, my team or ability to get outside and get fresh air? Like, what were some of the things that gave us some sparks?
- [53:58]
B
Some of it came up for me is I wanted more space. That was the one that came up a lot. If you look at my calendar, most days it's pretty stacked. Now I work a four day work week, so I take Fridays off, so that kind of contributes to it. So I, I do what it takes to have that Friday off, but I just white space or time off or time at the lake with Hobie. Like, that came up a lot in, like, different ways. That's why you're going to look for some patterns, like, oh, there's a theme here. It might be a few different things. I also wanted a lot of help. I wanted someone to prep my food. I wanted someone to clean my house. I wanted someone to walk my dog when I couldn't. So there was a lot of support that I wanted as well. But look for the patterns, because those kind of things will really show up.
- [54:40]
A
Got it. And then if you also get clear, I mean, we could be. Must be nice to have a lot of help. But you're like, for sure. But that's the benefit of being a business owner, being an entrepreneur, and crafting a clear vision for the future that you want to create. And then really reverse engineering back because you really can create that lifestyle. Especially as your clarity increases.
- [55:02]
B
Absolutely, yes. That's the way to look at it.
- [55:04]
A
What's the biggest lie people believe about course creation?
- [55:07]
B
Ooh, this is a good one. The biggest lie that they believe about course creation is that their topic has already been done, so why should I even do it? Like, we haven't even started creating it. But the biggest thing that stops people is it's already been done before. And the worst part is, Amy, it's been done before, and it's been done by someone way bigger than I am, so I can't create that course. And I come back to, you need a tiny sliver of the Internet to pay attention for you to be profitable with your course. Who cares if a big shot did it? When I started 16 years ago, there's this woman who's still a big shot, Mari Smith. And I started by teaching Facebook marketing very different than what I do now. And she was the queen. People called her the queen of Facebook. I think they still do. And. And I had the audacity to think, well, maybe I could do a little of that as well. And she taught me a lot of stuff. She's a wonderful woman. But I went off and did it my own way, and then it morphed into something different. But if I looked at Mari Smith, I could have easily said, there's no room for me and look at where I am 16 years later. So do not let that lie creep into your mind.
- [56:14]
A
I just want to affirm that what's so. It's such a lie. And what's so weird about the Internet. And maybe, you know, listeners to this, you might be kind of deep in the rabbit hole. Maybe you already follow Amy, You've been listening to this podcast. You start learning, like, who's who in the social media zoo or whatever. Your feed is full of this kind of information. But I think none of us realize how big the world is.
- [56:38]
B
Yes.
- [56:40]
A
And even when I think about YouTube, there's. There's an individual that is more on the agency side. Huge YouTube channel, much younger. You know, I'm 41. This individual is like early 20tw 20s, has built a massive business. And we'll do sometimes live event that can just have outrageous numbers of people on it. But what I also, what I realize is I see that and I might feel intimidated or, oh, it's saturated. There's so many people there. But what I realize this might sound funny. Nobody even knows it's happening.
- [57:14]
B
Right?
- [57:15]
A
There's, there's somebody that is in the online course space that I believe you've worked for in the past who will say, yeah, we just had a million people. They'll be like, we had a million people on our live event and in our three day thing. And I'm like, a million people?
- [57:31]
B
Yes.
- [57:32]
A
Well, it's already. And then I realized, I'll talk to my. I got 31 people on our team. They're like, I didn't know that was happening. Like, I didn't even know that. So we are talking, I mean, what is it? 7, 8, 9 billion people on the planet? Hundreds of thousands of people are coming on the Internet every week. And it's just, it's such a big world. But I really want to attack that lie even deeper. To your point, we're also talking about like, smallest viable audience. We're talking about specialty. We're also just talking about, I mean, generations, ethnicities, ages, style, your way of doing it. The world is so much more abundant than we realize. But it makes us frankly just not take action or get stuck in insecurity or get stuck in overthinking when we're so concerned with what everybody else is doing.
- [58:19]
B
So concerned. And we are literally. You're right. The things we worry about. People aren't even, it's not even on their radar. I have a coaching client I work with one on one, and she's in our world. And I'll say, well, you know how XYZ is doing it. She's like, I've never heard that name in my life. And I'm like, what? But it's true. I'm so glad you brought that up. So that's why I'm all about be a racehorse. Put your blinders on. Don't look left or right. If you asked me, Sean, I know who you're talking about. But if you ask me, tell me about your competitors program, tell me about what they're doing. Genuinely, I have no clue. It's none of my business and it will only make me feel bad. So I will literally never go there.
- [58:56]
A
Yes. Blinders on Racehorse is the mascot of this podcast episode. Racehorse. Horse emoji. If you're on YouTube or horse emoji and you're able to comment, that's a really good. I needed to hear that one.
- [59:10]
B
Important.
- [59:10]
A
Just blinders on in general because I all, you know, I also am procrastinating a lot of times so I just start scrolling. I'm looking for dopamine distractions and but it's like to, to get this work done and to stay focused and to come up with your point of view and to get it published and get it organized. We need to kind of shut off the noise, put on the blinder, stop worrying about what everybody else is doing and focus on what you're going to build. If someone's listening, they're in a 9 to 5. They're excited about this. They've been thinking about doing this for a while, but they feel the limitation. And you add kids into the mix, you add in some other things, even just energy management, time management, energy management being more important because you know, hey, you get home from work, you get up super early. Can they start a digital course on the side or is it too much?
- [60:01]
B
Oh, I'm so glad you asked this. That's how you should start it. If you're still in a 9 to 5 and you're looking for a way out, you start a side hustle. And there's no better side hustle than a digital course because it's something that can, you can sell over and over again even if you're not actively on live all the time. And so I love the idea of a course as a side hustle. Now what this means is that it might mean you're waking up an hour earlier before the whole family gets up. That's what I did. I was a 5Amer. I worked for an hour and a half before the boys got up. Or I'm not a really late nighter, but if you are, we work a little bit later. There are sacrifices you make in the beginning that I promise you, Sean and I are not making today. We make some sacrifices, maybe in a different way, but the things you do in the beginning, that hustle. I don't want to teach hustle mentality, but I will say there's no way to skip it in the very Very beginning. It's going to take making some sacrifices to make it work, but absolutely, you can be creating your course in the margins of your life.
- [60:59]
A
So. Good. Well, as we cover a few other things, I do want to talk about some of the resources you have for individuals listening and if they want to go deeper. There's actually two specific things. We'll make sure these linked are linked up in the show notes. If you're watching this podcast early or listening, one of the things you have is a boot camp. We mentioned it earlier, but we'll link that up in the show notes again. How long is this boot camp? There's a small investment for it, but what exactly are you going to learn, do and walk away with?
- [61:30]
B
Yes. So it is three trainings live with me and then an extra bonus finale training where I tie it all up in a bow and I show you how it all works together. So in the training means I'm going to teach you how to create your sweet spot. Remember I talked about the course creation sweet spot? I get into it more detail, give you a lot of examples and give you the exercise to find your own. So you're not going to leave Course Confident Bootcamp without knowing what you want to teach in your course. You're also going to learn what type of course you want to create. There's a starter course, spotlight course, signature course. I break it all down to allow you to think, okay, this is how I might approach this, depending on the type of course I want to create, which starts moving you forward, you start getting excited. I'm also going to teach you how to price your course. We're going to do a lot of course math, but I'll have my slides where I'll give you real numbers and break it down like I'm a mathematician. So there's a lot of course math to show you what's possible to actually get it in reality. And then finally, how to grow an audience that is ready to buy when you're ready to sell. It's the number one thing we got to focus on. So growing an email list, growing an audience so you can sell a course, it's a big part of the Bootcamp as well.
- [62:38]
A
So if you want to join Amy's Bootcamp, check out the show notes or the YouTube description. There'll be a link over to that where you can learn everything you can register. This is a very limited opportunity because it's live and then it's over. So check that out because that is. That's something scarce now. Also, depending on when you're listening to this, if you want to do it all in like one class.
- [63:01]
B
Yeah.
- [63:02]
A
And as much as you can cover, you have a free class online. You could go to digital courseclass.com and then we'll also make sure that's linked up. What's the difference and what are we learning on this class?
- [63:16]
B
So the difference is the class is 60 minutes and it's not as detailed. I don't get to get in the the details with you and actually implement with you like the boot camp. So the boot camp's more hands on. But if you're like, look, I gotta get in and out and I just gotta understand what does it take to create a course. The class is a great option as well. A lot of times I tell people, just do both. I think you'll find value in both. But if you only have an hour to give me, get on that class for sure.
- [63:42]
A
And that's a great price too because the price for the class is free.
- [63:45]
B
Yeah, the class is free. Yes.
- [63:47]
A
So digitalcourseclass.com definitely hit the link or description to check that out and that will help you unpack some of these ideas at an even deeper level. As we have just a few more minutes in our conversation. But I'm really interested in this question. You've helped thousands of students succeed at digital courses. You've got to interact with so many different people doing different topics, niches, backgrounds. What's the difference and differences of those who succeed and those who stall out?
- [64:20]
B
Love this question. And I think the number one difference is those who succeed have been 100% familiar with messing up every single step of the way. Meaning those who don't, they mess up and they believe they are not meant for this. I was so close to being that person. This isn't working. Everyone else is having success, but I am. I'm not cut out to be an entrepreneur. But what I had was I thought, holy cow, I want to be my own boss so bad. I do not work, want to work in a 9 to 5 and I want to have a lot of money. And so I thought, well, this didn't work. My first launch, I made $267 and cried for weeks and weeks. That was a huge failure. But I knew I wanted something bigger. So I did it again and again. The only difference between someone who does it and someone who doesn't is someone who does have the success, knows that it's going to be messy, knows that they're going to make a mistake and they still get going because they know. They'll figure it out.
- [65:16]
A
So if I'm hearing you, it makes me think of some of these. They're almost cliches, but they're so true and powerful that failures are the stepping stones to success.
- [65:26]
B
It's so cliche and I, I try not to say it, but I want to say it because it is. It's literally the only reason I'm on this podcast with you today. If you had me list out a hundred mistakes I've made, I could rattle them off so fast it's not even funny. Some of them I'm embarrassed about and don't even want to talk about. But at the same time, I did know that I wanted that freedom, so I had to stick with it.
- [65:46]
A
I think another quote I heard was that winners have failed more than losers have even tried.
- [65:53]
B
Okay, that's what I was trying to say. Say it one more time for me so I can remember that one. That one's good.
- [65:58]
A
Winners have failed more than losers have even tried.
- [66:03]
B
Yes, that's what I mean. That is exactly what I mean. I love that.
- [66:07]
A
Yeah. And it does make me think because that might go in one and out the other, but it's kind of like we beat ourselves up for our quote unquote failures, not understanding that that actually is the investment that we need to make. I've heard the other term called dumb tax. Like you pay a tax of making mistakes. You pay a tax. It's like the price of entry. It's. The price of entry is a lot of failures. The price of entry is not that you're getting it right, it's that you're trying, making a mistake and then, and then learning from that mistake, that's very powerful. When someone has maybe a mindset though of I don't really know how to teach and who will listen to me. Some people teaching comes naturally too, meaning they taught in their previous job. They taught their, they coached their team a little bit. They were middle management. They, they had certain things they were doing. What are some of your advice for once you actually get inside of the course or just, just being a better teacher in general? Like what's working today as it becomes to being a good educator, Being a good teacher.
- [67:10]
B
Yes. Okay, number one is what I mentioned earlier, that you know how to create bite sized pieces of content that people can easily digest, think easily digestible content. I think that's one, a sign of a really great teacher. The second one is knowing what questions to ask your students. So when I, I teach people how to teach in their courses because this is some something that not everyone's been taught. And one of the things I teach my students when you're teaching is to know the right questions to ask so that they can be part of the conversation. If you have a slide of like a hundred death by, you know, death by bullets, a hundred bullet points on a slide and you're just boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, you have lost them. So another thing is that to pitch and catch with those questions, the third one is you gotta tell stories. You've gotta tell stories of what it looks like for you or your students or people you've worked with in the past and bring alive your content through those stories. We all know storytelling is king. It works every time. You can incorporate that in all of your teachings inside of a course that's so great.
- [68:13]
A
And if we get a little bit advanced at the end here, if someone's listening and they have some success under their belt, they have been doing this, they maybe have a couple launches, but they need to retune a little bit, maybe they've hit a plateau as many have, because the landscape is shifting. What do you think it takes right now? Or some of the new stuff for scaling, thinking different? What, what are maybe some of the conversations you're having inside of your high, highest level program where you are helping people build million dollar businesses? What's the scale conversation that's taking place there?
- [68:47]
B
I just had one with my mastermind. We were going around and we're saying what's working, what's not working? And one of the things that came up a lot is offering a low priced, really low price, I like $37 offer, even if it's leading to like a $5,000 program. And I'm like, no way that that's not working. And so many of my mastermind members said no it is because there's a trust recession right now. People are trusting you less and less and AI is not helping that. And so with this trust recession, being able to get people in your world, even with just a little bit of money so that you can then have them, part of your community makes a huge difference right now. So something like that leading into let's say a bigger course. Absolutely. It could be a PDF, it could be an audio. We're not talking about a mini course, something really simple. So getting people to pay in the early part of your engagement, very important right now. And then what I talked about earlier, this personalization, I cannot hit this enough. How can you make people feel as though there's a personal connection with you and your students without getting on one on one calls. And it might be voxer exchanges, it might be through text messaging. It could be through these small groups that you put together in a bigger course, but allowing people to connect with you and each other on a smaller level, more intimate, it makes a huge difference. That is what's selling with courses right now.
- [70:06]
A
I want to unpack one statement you made because I'm not fully sure what you mean when you said, you know, there's a trust recession, agree there's many reasons for it. You said, AI is not helping. What do you. Why do you think AI is not helping? Or why is AI?
- [70:20]
B
Let me give you an example how I personally think it's not helping. And believe me, I'm the hugest fan of AI, but this part is not my favorite. So recently, you know how everyone. Well, not everyone everyone. A lot of people are talking about the Diddy trial. It's. It's going on right now.
- [70:36]
A
I saw he was just convicted.
- [70:38]
B
Okay. Well, I saw on social media yesterday, he was convicted. He will get life in prison. And that the woman Cassie, who put all the charges against him, she was interviewed. Like, I'm relieved. Thank God it's over. Today I just saw on social media that he did not get convicted of the bigger charges. He got of smaller charges.
- [70:59]
A
Do count smaller charges? It might have been a slap on the wrist.
- [71:01]
B
Yes. Okay. But I literally was working out with my trainer this morning. I'm like, did you hear he's going to jail for life? Believed it. It was a reputable source. I thought literally was quoting people. That's the kind of stuff. This is a silly example, but that stuff happens every day. So who do you trust anymore? Who can you believe? And if that continues to happen, it's going to trickle into our worlds. Is that really Amy or is that some weird ad that's running? That's not even her. So that's why if we can make those personal connections, that trust starts to grow. It's real. If you make it real, that's where the trust grows.
- [71:36]
A
That's a great point. It's understanding the broader landscape and context that there's a trust recession in general. Deep fakes news, what's happening on social. And then, yeah, that's the emotions that triggers. Although it's. It's a very serious case, but a more side issue. You're confidently saying it and then the truth comes out and you feel like, wait a minute, was I lied to? Was I tricked? What did I Believe.
- [72:01]
B
And I'm embarrassed, literally. And it was in video, so that's why I said say AI think it was AI generated video. That was just fake. And so then you start to second guess yourself.
- [72:12]
A
Yes. Man, that's so great. Okay, as we land the plane with a couple of my favorite questions here. What do you wish you knew before you created your first course?
- [72:24]
B
Ooh. What I wish I knew before I created my first course is I don't need to put everything in the kitchen sink in it to prove myself. No one's asking you to prove your worth in a digital course. They're asking you to get them resolved. You're likely putting in way too much.
- [72:38]
A
It's not necessary in today's world. How long is a signature course? I know you don't want to say the math, but I'm just curious. Is it 10 hours, 15 minute videos? Is it 5?
- [72:51]
B
I look at it more in weeks. Typically a signature course is between 6 and 12 weeks. Anything more than that, you're asking them to pay attention for too long. And so let's say it's a six week course. Then it might be one module per week and each modules are breaking up into videos. So maybe an hour a week. So I'm talking six hours over six weeks, that kind of thing. That's how I kind of look at it.
- [73:17]
A
This is kind of then a personalized question and maybe you can give me some coaching that individuals could benefit from. We have a program called Video Ranking Academy. And as a student of yours, I think about how do we make this better and better? And one of the things we're launching is called VRA Fast Start to get you started in one hour. VRA Fast Start. Then what already existed and we're rebuilding is VRA foundations. Then it's like, okay, we're going to re go through what we're learning here, but at a deeper level. And then the final section is VRA Masters. We have a seven step framework. And the idea is like, okay, can we go? Let's go through it in an hour. Quick. Like basically 10 minutes for each step. Roughly 70 minutes. Then let's go through it in maybe three hours and then maybe six at the various levels of the program. I'm just curious if you feel like my thinking is kind of sound for today's world or how you might tweak my approach during this rebuild.
- [74:09]
B
I'm loving it. I love the kickstart. This is something so valuable for all future course creators if you can get them a quick win early on. You've got their attention. So kickstarting. In any kind of program, I do the same thing. I love it. And then that's so smart. Where you're just saying, we're going to do a little bit more. Now they get their buy in. Okay, I'm seeing some results. We're going to do a little more. They're more likely to spend the hours down the road when they see there's proof in the beginning. Our friend Stu McLaren, he does a program on memberships and he actually has, let's say he has seven videos in a module. He'll have. The first four are essential. If you want to go deeper. You can do the other three. But the results he's promising you, if you just do the first four, you're good. Of each module. That's kind of the same concept as.
- [74:55]
A
Well, that's a cool concept. This idea that, okay, one, avoid the whole kitchen sink.
- [75:00]
B
Yes.
- [75:00]
A
But two, they're also maybe then speak to two Personas. One is like, you gotta watch these first three videos. That's gonna be foundational. But there's maybe that Persona that I want a little bit more. I wanna go more granular, minimum effective dose. But there's always people that want victims for punishment. You know, they're like, just give me it all or so having kind of these expansive options. I love this. Okay, what's one thing done every single launch for the last decade that still works?
- [75:32]
B
Oh, so I actually have a lot of them. One thing I'm known for is tried and true strategies that aren't trendy. So I could go on and on. But the one, the one that's like never gone away are webinars. And they are also called masterclasses. But I and my students have seen huge results this year and we've seen them 10 years ago as well. When you do them right, webinars are still alive and well.
- [75:55]
A
And if you're also thinking about your career, of what's really changed significantly, which we've been talking about, but also what hasn't because we're always on. The new webinars is a good foundational one, but maybe macro about digital courses in education.
- [76:09]
B
So what has changed?
- [76:11]
A
Yeah. What really hasn't changed? Yeah. What hasn't? Has it? But it hasn't. Yeah.
- [76:17]
B
Okay. So what hasn't changed about courses is that people do when you think, oh, my God, I want to know how to do something. Sure. You might say, I'm going to do a little research on ChatGPT. But when you're serious about getting results. People will instantly say, I want to buy a course that has not changed. We see it over and over. I'm in many, many groups that people's courses are thriving. So people still are gravitating toward, I want to learn this. I'm going to get a course. Especially for someone who has gotten results for themselves or somebody else that's the same. But what's the one? Is the other one? What has changed? Yeah, yeah. I think how you create a course has dramatically changed for the better. There's, there's no doubt in my mind, you know, you know how parents say, like, I used to have to walk to school up hills both ways. That's how I was with courses. Like, I created every single thing from scratch. Now you don't have to. I teach my students what prompts to use how to navigate AI. So it's not a watered down course, but absolutely, you can get it done a whole lot faster. Use a guide like me or somebody else you trust so you get the nuances and the experiences you need. But also use AI to help you get it done faster. Absolutely.
- [77:24]
A
We have one final question, and you could be thinking about a story or stories of the why behind all of this and that power of a digital course to transform lives. But before we hit that final question, I do want to thank listeners for making it this far. And of course, if you get value out of a show like this, it always means the world. If you like, rate, review, or share wherever you watch or listen to, Think Media podcast and check out Amy's resources as well. If you're listening to this and you want to go deeper with your learning, two options, they may or may not be available, so act quick because they do expire. She's doing a masterclass that's totally free and you could check that out@digitalcourseclass.com and we'll make sure that's in the show notes. And then there's also a boot camp, which is a small investment, but it's a much more immersive experience and that will be linked up in the show notes as well, as well as time codes, chapters, everything else. And show notes from this episode and want to send massive love to you for listening to the podcast today and to you, Amy, for always bringing massive value. But I want to end with just one final question, and that is there's a lot of grit that goes into this. There's learning. We're studying your stuff. We're stretching ourselves, we're getting uncomfortable. It's not going to be without pain. And so having a vision of what the pain is for, but also what the promise is on the other side of the sacrifice and the stretching of ourselves to make our first or next digital course. What is some of the stories that are either personal or from your students of just the result of all this, the difference it can make in our lives and in our families?
- [79:08]
B
Oh, I love this question. So how can, how can a digital course actually make your life better or transform or allow you to have the life you want? So many of my course creators, it's so beautifully simple. I asked them, what do you want most if you're or when your course is successful? And the number one thing I hear and the number one thing most of my students get with their success is I want to be able to pick my kids up from school at 3pm I want to be done with my day. I don't want to have to ask anyone for permission. I want to be able to do that. And so many of my students talk about that. Another one of my students who did incredibly well teaching people baking, she wanted to buy her mom a house. Her mom was a house cleaner. She, she was from Mexico. She didn't speak good English, but she has worked her butt off all her life and she just wanted her mom to have a house. She never had a house. She was able to buy her a home. Like that's a big deal to be able to take care of your parents. Another woman that created a course, her course was on Evergreen, so she was selling it every day. Automation, something I teach my students how to do. And when her dad became sick and he was in hospice, he was dying. Dying. She took off three months and she was just there for her mom and dad. That's the beautiful thing to have something in your world that you can sell over and over again. So it's, it's the little moments or the big moments in our personal lives that take a dramatic change when we have a successful course that we focus on.
- [80:36]
A
Amy Porterfield, so grateful for you coming back on the Think Media podcast. Thank you so much for adding massive value today and I look forward to our future, future conversations.
- [80:45]
B
Thank you, my friend. I appreciate you having me.
- [80:47]
A
If you enjoyed that conversation with Amy like I did, it always means the world if you like and leave a comment on YouTube or if you're listening on audio, if you just rate and review the podcast wherever you listen. Also, you heard about some of Amy's resources, but she only does these types of things like a couple times a year. I think it might only be once a year in her case. And she has some free trainings. One is a boot camp. It's called Amy's Course Confident Boot Camp. And if it's before September 11th, then you can still get into it. So this is a limited opportunity. Now, this is a small investment of $47 to grab a ticket, but you're going to walk away knowing your course topic, the type of course and the price, plus an audience growth plan. So that's available@digitalcoursebootcamp.com and of course, you can use the link in the show notes to see a summary of all of these cool resources. And if you're looking for a free class, you have a little bit longer to take advantage of this. Or if you miss the bootcamp and you're listening to this podcast later, then you can go to digital courseclass.com that's a free 60 minute masterclass. And so check both of those links links out in the show notes so that you can jump into Amy's proprietary process and ultimately her goal of helping you build a business and a life that you truly own through the power of digital courses. And as always, my name is Sean Cannell, your guide to building a profitable YouTube channel. This is the Think Media podcast and I cannot wait to connect with you in a future episode.