The Think Media Podcast: Episode 450
The New Way to Create Online Courses Going Into 2026
Host: Sean Cannell (Think Media)
Guest: Marisa Murgatroyd
Date: September 30, 2025
Overview
In this episode, Sean Cannell sits down with Marisa Murgatroyd—an online education pioneer who has launched 18,000+ students and driven $53 million in course sales—to discuss the shifting landscape of online courses. With skepticism in the marketplace and AI causing disruption, they cover how to stand out, deliver true transformation (not just information), and why the “experience product” is the future for creators and educators.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. The State and Reputation of Online Courses (00:00–04:00)
- Market Skepticism & Burnout:
Online courses are still a billion-dollar-a-day industry, but students are “jaded... burnt out on empty promises” and have grown wary of scams. (A, 00:20) - Importance of Student Transformation:
The best courses “drive action and results,” not just knowledge. Courses should offer a “specific destination” akin to plugging it into a GPS—a clear, actionable path to an outcome. (B, 01:46)
2. Red Flags for Scammy Courses (03:30–11:00)
- Outlandish Promises:
Be wary of “ridiculous promises and claims...make a million dollars in your first year in business without leaving the house with no resources and no expertise.” (B, 03:49) - Lack of Documented Proof:
Vet courses for “demonstrable stats,” authentic testimonials, and verifiable completion rates.“The industry average...is just 3 to 7%...The last round of my signature course...we had 63% complete.” (B, 04:30)
- How to Build Credibility If You’re New:
Start with a Minimum Viable Product (MVP): Test your “core solution” simply and quickly, get a few success stories (even via one-on-one or a small group), and iterate. (B, 06:05)“Build the paper plane version first...Make it real to you. Make it real to the world. Get those first success stories.” (B, 08:30)
3. MVP and Beta Launching: Getting Your First Successes (11:00–16:00)
- Fast-Tracked Proof:
Even free/low-cost, hands-on beta programs or one-on-one coaching can quickly net testimonials and confidence.“Confidence is actually demonstrated success and you can’t manufacture confidence.” (B, 12:25)
- Simplicity Over Complexity:
Start live, imperfect, and “minimum viable.” The first students get “access and a level of...engagement that will never come again.” (B, 14:25)
4. Validating and Shaping Your Course Idea (16:00–21:30)
- Finding Idea-Market Fit:
Use a Venn diagram mindset: target the intersection of your passion and what the market wants. Often, it’s better to start closer to the center of the customer’s desire and iterate from there. (B, 16:28)“If you can help people solve a problem, in some ways you’re being selfish by not doing it.” (B, 18:28)
- Rapid Validation Tools:
Marisa offers a “free five day challenge” using custom AI tools for finding your winning course idea in “five to ten minutes a day.” (B, 16:28; A, 19:34)
5. Information vs. Experience Products – “The Thud Factor” (21:30–31:00)
- Old Model: Information Dump (“Thud Factor”)
Earlier, more info was “better”—big boxes of DVDs, reams of content landing with a “thud.”“The thud factor is really the sound of people’s hopes and dreams collapsing to the floor.” (B, 22:24)
- New Model: Experience & Action-Oriented Learning
Structure courses to deliver quick wins, ongoing action, and tangible movement towards a clear result.“How someone starts is how they’re going to finish...deliver a win within the very first thing that people do.” (B, 25:35)
- Human-Focused vs. Function-Focused Design:
Don’t assume students are highly motivated. Remove friction; make early tasks dead simple and motivating.“You want to train people that anytime they interact...they’re going to do things that allow them to win and get one step closer to that destination.” (B, 26:00)
- Example: Teach musicians to build a “Dream 50” list of ideal shows before tackling paperwork.
6. The Role of AI & Market Disruption (31:00–33:35)
- AI as Information Provider, Not Mastery Maker:
AI offers “all of human knowledge,” but lacks the human touch, actionable frameworks, and motivation-generating design that creates true transformation.“If information alone changed our lives, we’d be living in Google-topia...It’s for lack of motivation and self-belief to take action. And that’s where the course creation industry is still massively valuable.” (B, 28:50)
- Real Course Creators: Guides, Not Just Experts:
The industry will split between “function-focused” info-pushers and empathetic, experience-architects.
7. Mastery & The New Fundamentals of Course Creation (33:35–42:40)
- Becoming a Transformation Architect:
Mastery isn’t about dumping all your knowledge, but guiding students toward a photographable “finish line.”“All experience products are about getting people across a specific finish line...that needs to be so clear and so specific you could photograph someone crossing it.” (B, 36:55)
- Simplifying the Process:
Presence trumps perfection. Real mentors draw from lived experience, not unattainable expertise.“People don’t want to learn from the absolute masters, things that are inaccessible for them...they want real guides to real destinations.” (B, 40:45)
- Relatability Over Hero Worship:
Learners prefer guidance from those a few steps ahead, with relatable struggles—someone who has been where they are.“Who do you want to take you to the top of Mount Everest?...I personally want to learn from the person who tried and failed and would understand me.” (B, 41:44)
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
-
On Outrageous Promises:
“Some people say online courses are dead, but the truth is it's still a billion-dollar-a-day industry. But here's the problem. People are jaded. Courses have a bad rap. Some feel like scams, and frankly, a lot of them are.” (A, 00:30) -
On Tracking Student Success:
“The average industry average...is just 3 to 7%...The last round of my signature course...we had 63% complete.” (B, 04:30) -
On Getting Started with a Course:
“You build the paper plane version first. That usually is actually not just simplified. It's a premium service designed to get the result...pull it back to its essentials and then you're able to deliver it faster and easier and oftentimes, you know, charge more.” (B, 06:55) -
On Course Design Shifts:
“The thud factor is really the sound of people’s hopes and dreams collapsing to the floor and desperation.” (B, 22:24) -
On Experience Products:
“It’s not about selling a course. It’s about giving people a pathway to solve a really gnarly, challenging problem in their life or realize a hope, a dream, an aspiration, a goal they've been struggling with.” (B, 17:24) -
On the Masterclass.com Paradox:
“They have had to lay off their staff two or three years in a row because people don’t want to learn from the absolute masters...They actually want to learn from teachers who can show them a path that they can walk.” (B, 39:51) -
On the Everest Analogy:
“Who do you want to take you to the top of Mount Everest?...I personally want to learn from the person who tried and failed and would understand me.” (B, 41:44)
Important Segments & Timestamps
- Intro & Market Context: 00:00–03:30
- Scam vs. Real Course Red Flags: 03:30–11:00
- Minimum Viable Product/Beta Strategy: 11:00–16:00
- Course Idea Validation (with AI, rapid process): 16:00–21:30
- Experience vs. Information & The “Thud Factor”: 21:30–31:00
- AI, Market Disruption & Next Era: 31:00–33:35
- Mastery, Simplicity & Being a Real-World Guide: 33:35–42:40
- Closing Takeaways, Resources, and Wrap: 42:40–45:34
Resources Mentioned
- Marisa’s 5-Day Course Idea Challenge:
smartcourseideas.com (linked in show notes; free at time of airing) - Marisa’s Platforms:
Live Your Message (website, YouTube, Instagram, etc.)
Tone and Final Thoughts
This episode blends practical systems-level advice with honest, empathetic encouragement. Marisa’s language is relatable yet precise, urging listeners to start small, focus on demonstrable results, and design courses as experience products that drive real action—not just deliver more information. Sean reinforces that the opportunity in the industry is huge for those who adapt to this new paradigm.
If you want to carve your place in the online education space—by building trust, changing lives, and making a great living—this conversation is your roadmap for 2026 and beyond.
Listen for key moments, take notes, and check the show notes for all referenced resources. Follow Marisa at LiveYourMessage.com for deeper dives into transformational course creation.