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- [00:00]
A
The economy is shifting fast. If you're an entrepreneur or creator serious about scaling with YouTube, this is your moment. October 2nd and 3rd in Las Vegas, we're hosting the Think Media Mastermind. It's exclusive, it's application only, and spots are almost gone. Apply now@thinkmediamastermind.com Some people say that online courses are dead, but the truth is it's still a billion dollar a day industry. But here's the problem. People are jaded. Courses have a bad rap. Some feel like scams, and frankly, a lot of them are. And students are burnt out on empty promises. So how do you stand out in the middle of all of this? And how do you create a course that actually gets results? Build your reputation, gives your students transformation instead of just more information. That's why today I've brought on Marisa Murgatroyd. She's helped over 18,000 students successfully launch their businesses and generate more than $53 million in online course sales. She's been featured in the Inc. 5000 list four times and has spent years studying the world's most addictive apps and even games that keep people hooked. And she's cracked the code on how to use those same principles to grow a thriving online education business. So in today's conversation though, we're going to dive into the changes. We're going to dive into really what makes courses, actual scams like the low quality ones that don't get people, results that hurt your reputation. And then we're also going to talk about how to stand out, how to actually create courses that change lives, the changes that are happening this year, and ultimately how you can benefit and impact people and make a great income in the process. Marisa, welcome back to the podcast.
- [01:47]
B
Thank you so much. Super good to be here and can't wait to talk about all of this because right now. Thank you. The course world is changing so much. And the one thing you didn't mention in the intro, which I think is key to everything today, is that I've actually inspired over a million hours of life changing human action. So I think that the big difference between a course that sits on the shelf collecting digital dust if it sells to begin with, and a course that actually makes an impact, transforms lives and, and kind of become something that people rave about and share with their friends, is the ability to drive action and results. So, so many of these scam courses that you're talking about, they are making these giant, big, broad promises like make a million dollars in your first year in business without leaving the house with no resources and no expertise. And so there's a difference between a promise and a destination. So the best online courses have a very specific destination. Like if you were to plug this destination into a gps, there would be a specific route to get there. And so the best courses are usually the shortest, fastest route to a precise destination. And if someone is marketing a course where they say, okay, this, this is what we're going to do, this is the timeframe in which we're going to do it, and this is the exact destination in process by which we're going to get those results, then they're much more likely to be the real deal. So that's one kind of flag in terms of figuring out whether this course is a scam or whether it's something that's really going to change your life.
- [03:30]
A
Well, it's such a strong start and I actually want to ask you a few more questions about kind of scam versus legit and then speak about sort of the experience, information divide and then some tips for standing out but kind of diving back in. What are some of the biggest red flags people should look out when, look out for when buying a course?
- [03:50]
B
100%. First of all, ridiculous promises and claims where there can be outliers and people who do actually make, you know, huge success and huge progress and have seemingly miraculous transformations. But what you're looking for is the average person. So look for programs that actually have track records and actually have demonstrable stats that they're willing to share. So I know in my company, our, what we call our North Star metric, which is the metric that guides every action and every decision in the company, is student success. And so the average, industry average for kind of regular courses, not the kinds that I teach people how to make, but more information products or home study programs, is just 3 to 7% of people will actually even complete the program. The last round of my signature course experience product Masterclass, we had 63% complete. And we can verify that. We can document that. We also have over seven, I think over 3,000, I think 500 testimonials or 3,400 testimonials, the single program out of just over 7,000 students. So when you have that kind of wall of proof, like you can go through, click through every single one, they are different people. You can tell that they're real testimonials, they got typos and, you know, people from all sorts of countries with interesting English and things like that. So you know that they're real. They're not those perfect Fake, you know, testimonials. So you're looking for that kind of is the person who's sharing this with me how have a track record of getting people results and people who are like me, with my level of experience, my level of background. Now that may also create an objection for you if you're a brand new quer saying, well, I haven't created that yet. I don't have a track record, I don't have testimonials, why would someone trust me? And two things for that, because I don't want to answer the question in a way that creates an objection. A doubt or hesitation in you is you want to get testimonials and create success stories as quickly as possible. So when you're creating a new program, I actually recommend creating what I call a minimum viable product, an MVP version. And usually that version is just designed to test the core solution inside of your course. The way I describe a core solution is say you wanted to build a jet plane, this big fancy plane that travels the world, right? And a lot of people have this big ambitious dream for the course that they create. But that dream is holding them back from taking the next step because they feel like they have to invest tens of thousands of dollars and hire professional crews and learn how to edit and learn how to build funnels and do all this stuff. But that dream is preventing you from just taking the next step in the real world. So if the core solution of a jet plane is if I put wings on something, it will fly, what's the simplest, easiest, cheapest way to test that jet plane? Well, the easiest way to test that is a paper plane, because you've got wings. And will a paper plane fly? Yes, it will. So you build the paper plane version first. And that usually is actually not just simplified. It's a premium service designed to get the result that whatever program or course you ultimately want to create will deliver. But you pull it back to its essentials and then you're able to deliver it faster and easier and oftentimes, you know, charge more. Especially if you're starting with people in your sphere of influence, people that you already know, or people that are just one step removed from you. That way you're able to create success stories really quickly by kind of delivering a high touch point experience to a few people. And I've had a lot of different kind of students do this. My favorite one that I like to talk about is Kat Curry, because she actually had this, has this Instagram makeover course that's had over 10,000 students now. But she started with an Instagram makeover service and within a week earned $16,000 selling it, then delivered one on one Instagram makeovers that gave her the experience that also allowed her to trip to create a better course at the end of the day. But she got paid to build her product and to test her idea with a simpler version before going to the fully scalable leveraged version. So if you don't have experience kind of selling the thing that you ultimately want to sell or delivering the transformation, get that experience in the easiest way possible. Do it in a way that tests that core solution. So you know, if you can sell the MVP version, then you're going to be able to sell that kind of next level version as well. So that's kind of my recommendation. And then you have real stories and that you can share in your marketing with real testimonials and case studies and videos. So it just feels a lot more real because a lot of times when people start, they kind of. It feels like you're selling a can of hot air, to be quite honest. Right. It doesn't exist yet. It's invisible. Like, so you've got that feeling to it before because it's not really real to you and it's not really real to the world. So make it real to you. Make it real to the world. Get those first success stories so you can speak about it in this grounded, embodied way. Because you've had the experience.
- [09:07]
A
Yeah. So what I'm learning from you is some of the biggest red flags in if you're going to purchase a course is if you're seeing somebody make outrageous, huge promises, make huge claims, and also if they're lacking testimonials and if you can't dig into the average results, not just the outlier results, that is some of the biggest red flags. And that's why a lot of people think courses are scams. Cause they often are. They made huge promises, they don't really deliver. They're maybe just marketed well. And they also just might be an information dump or something, but they're not actually getting people to a destination. They make promises, but they're not a GPS to get people to a destination. But I also am learning from you. The good news is though, that also creates a gap because it's like, well, how do you get into the industry before getting to your level where you're getting 10 times better? The industry average, You've got all of these testimonials. But if I'm starting from scratch and that's solvable by starting small and starting simple and creating a minimum 5 viable product. A simple course, quick wins for people. Something you can also launch quickly so that you can get those first few testimonials. I also like what she said here. It's actually how I started our Video Ranking Academy program that you might even before building and fully packaging the course, you might do it more interactive, you might do it as a service. Your case study was, you know, a service of somebody actually holding people's hands to do an Instagram makeover with them. When I was designing Video Ranking Academy, I figured out my framework. I figured out my seven steps. I had been doing it in my own life. I actually one to one DM'd people and I said, hey, would you be open to me sharing this information with you, walking you through this actually for free? Now you might recommend there's a way to sell it, but. And I actually just first thought so that if it works for you and you like it, would you be willing to give me a testimonial in exchange? I wanted those first few testimonials and I wanted a chance to in an interactive. What I liked about that too was it wasn't just like filming a video and then putting it out there without the feedback. I was able to learn and interact with the person and have them kind of poke holes in my ideas or get confused. And I did it with. I want to say, I think I reached out to 10 people. Three said yes. I went through that process with three people. I got three testimonials and it also really helped me refine my idea early on. Is that kind of what you're describing?
- [11:34]
B
Yeah. So if you're going to do it for free and you can, I recommend limiting it to like one or two or three people because sometimes that becomes a crutch of just continuing to give it away for free. But the thing that really matters is when it comes to pricing in value, you have to be able to embody that price point and embody that value. So if you feel like, you know what, I've not done this. I don't have proof, I don't have results. I just don't feel comfortable and not going to make that sale because you're kind of like selling from your back foot. So if it takes doing it two or three times with someone for free to give you that embodied confidence, then yes, because confidence is actually demonstrated success and you can't manufacture confidence. Experts will say, yeah, just flip the confidence switch and like fake it till you make it. But people can sniff a fake out from a mile away. And this isn't about thinking that you're a fraud or anything like that. It's just about creating a container in which you can get some demonstrated success and traction with someone. And that will give you a whole different level of confidence. You can also do a beta group. So there are some kinds of programs and things that one on one is not possible for or it's really tricky. And maybe you want to do a small group of three or six or whatever else it happens to be. And I recommend a particular rapid product creation methodology there where you just deliver it live the first time on Zoom and record all the sessions. And then people don't expect it to be perfect. And then you can interact and engage. You invite them to write in the chat. If something is not clear and then you're making it more interactive, you might actually realize they have questions that you never even thought to put in there. And so you can make the training better and refine or even if you're not good on the spot and kind of changing it as you go, you then change the next training that you're going to deliver based on the feedback that you got, or add some supplemental behind the scenes or look over my shoulder things to kind of fill in the gaps as resources. So it's a really good way to do it and it takes the pressure off and it's so much easier than you think it can be. Of course you've got to get certain things right, but it's definitely a lot easier. And I think so many people will go and look at say your finished product, your jet plane version or my jet plane version. I'm in my 10th year delivering the program, right. And then try to create that, that from the ground up. But my first version wasn't like that. My first version I delivered live, I think I was there live five days a week to deliver it. It was like that. And so people are coming on live every single day of the week. And I delivered it. But those first group of students who, who, you know, don't think that your first version is going to be bad. My first version of teaching people how to create experience products, I think I, I had about 400 or 450 people and I had, I had already had a pretty sizable following when I created my first course. But many of them have now created million dollar businesses and I'm still in touch with them because they were on with me every single day and we got to know each other and Create that relationship and that's really precious. The first people get the advantage of access and a level of kind of care and engagement that will never come again, you know. So when you have that beta program, those beta students feel like they're on the ground floor, those beta customers of something, so they're co creating it with you. And that experience oftentimes is just got an irreplaceable quality. So minimum viable does not mean that you're, you're kind of delivering something that's not complete or that's inferior. It just means simple. And a lot of times simple actually matches what people want for them to be simple, to be real, to be authentic, to be raw. People like that, they don't necessarily like the, the finished jet plane versions. There's certainly advantages to that, but there's an advantage to the first versions too. So I think people forget that. So even as you evolve, you're going to look back and remember those first kind of versions with, with fondness. I bet you remember all three of those clients. You could probably name them. You probably know what they're up to today.
- [15:33]
A
Exactly. It's been, it's relationships that have lasted since that time. And so I love all these insights now. This does kind of bring us to the next step. I do want to talk about the future of online courses, how things are changing and some of the pitfalls that people can follow in if they don't adapt right now with. But the next step for many, if they want to say I want to tap into a billion dollar a day industry, I want to do it the right way, they will struggle with what should my idea be and what actually is. Not just an idea that pops in my mind that I want to do, but what will actually be successful, what will actually resonate with the market, be aligned with my passions. You do have a free resource. I think in the future it's actually something you charge for depending on when people are listening to this. But if they want to check it out, it's a five day challenge to help people come up with course idea. And can you tell us about what exactly that is? And you know what I like, how long does it take a day? Like what? What?
- [16:28]
B
Yes. So these are actually five to ten minute videos that might take you another five to ten minutes or 15 minutes to implement. But I also give you AI tools that I've custom designed to help with the three hardest steps as well. So I actually this mini course is the distillation of 15 years in the industry. And so the Ability to get someone to that right idea hyper fast is actually, they always say, the simplicity on the far side of complexity, right, of just having done this so many times with so many thousands and thousands of people to kind of know where the hangups are and what are the essential steps and lenses for kind of fine tuning and sharpening that idea. Because a lot of what people do, it just kind of spins you in circles. But the idea is kind of where you meet the market, and that's critical. I think one thing that stops creators or people who really want to start is they're looking at what they want to teach or deliver, and they're not really considering where is the market. Now, who are your customers? Specific. And if you think of a Venn diagram, you know, where one side is what you want and the other side is what the customers want. I heard this, that if you start closer to the, the center of where the customer wants, at the edge of what you want to deliver, that's the best way to start. And then you can kind of move more towards the center of what you want to deliver and the edge of what they want once you've got that reputation built. But switching from, hey, I want to create a course to what problem can I solve? What transformation can I deliver? You know, where do I see people struggling or hurting or suffering needlessly, or even how can I bring them more happiness or joy in the moments of their life? You know, these are the questions to ask that open the veins of gold. And that's kind of what we're looking for. What are those veins of gold where you can, you can kind of serve that. And when you do, you know, people are just excited because it's not about selling a course. It's about giving people a pathway to solve a really gnarly, challenging problem in their life or realize a hope, a dream, an aspiration, a goal that they just might have been struggling with for five or 10 years. And I always like to say is that when you, if you have a solution like that, if you can help people solve a problem, in some ways you're being selfish by not doing it. Because then I think people think that they need to have everything perfect, but then it becomes about you, right? And then your fears can be paralyzing. But when I flip the lens to thinking about as what can I help people do, then it makes my inner voice, it like just flips the switch on it kind of like a, a train where you go on this track or that track, you can go down the track of all your fears and your doubts, or you can go down the track of wow, I've got a lot of good I can do in the world, a lot of people that I can help, a lot of problems I can solve. And I've learned to just sort of like pull that lever to switch myself that way and then recognize, you know, why would I let these stupid fears and doubts that are just not even true stop me from having this impact, making this difference while also being able to make an incredible living for myself and having this awesome life where I get to wake up and just do things that I love and help people and in ways that are deeply fulfilling.
- [19:35]
A
Well, I love the insights you're sharing here. And if that sounds interesting to you and you want to crack your profitable course a idea using three free AI tools. That resource is available at smartcourse. Ideas. Com now of course, we'll link that up in the show notes. And for anyone who's a longtime listener of the Think Media podcast, that distinction you made I love because it's a free five day challenge. People have been a part of our challenges and they've learned very valuable, but usually like 90 minutes to two hours a day. So the fact that you can get fierce clarity on your course idea as well as the strategy behind it in just a few minutes a day, I love the way you've done that by the way. It has me inspired to think about how I could bring transformation faster and how I could create something that is just as efficient and helpful for our community, but that will be for the future. So if you're listening to this smartcourse ideas.com and I'll link that up in the show notes, we do need to talk about this next part and this is so important. The experience, information divide. The course industry has been massively disrupted. Understatement. You know, you've been at 15 years. I think that, I think the first online course I purchased I purchased 15 years ago or so, right around 2010, maybe 2009. And then I started learning about it in the success of years and there's been so many changes, but then boom, AI hits the the industry plus competition plus saturation plus this idea. Seth Godin wrote a book called, you know, All Marketers are Liars or All Marketers ruin everything. The nature of just marketers and content creators and the fact there's going to be bad actors out there that don't have great reputation, but reputations but just, you know, kind of like vultures jump on these different opportunities. It's created an environment where there's just massive disruption. And of course, it gives some people pause to even wanting to get into the industry. I don't want to be scammy or selly. It's caused, you know, some people pause because is it too competitive or is AI just replacing courses? But you'd really teach about experience compared to information. And let's start as we're having this conversation in this section of the podcast. You call it the thud factor. What's this thud factor and what's changed?
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B
Yeah, so I actually remember being in a conference room, like in 2011 or 2012, when I was just getting my start and on the stage was actually. Well, I won't say who it was, but was this guy being like, you want to deliver so much value, you create the FUD factor. And it's like, you know, and you want to. They was also talking about print on demand. You wanted to print in demand and, like, ship DVDs and CDs to people's doorstep and have it be this big box that would, like, land with the thud. So they would be thinking, oh, my God, look at the value in here. And I remember that in my very first program, I did that, and each module was like a course in and of itself. And I was just trying to do this big, comprehensive, everything that you need to know about online business course, because that's what the kinds of programs that people were creating back in the early 2000 and tens, right? And I realized that the thud factor is really the sound of people's hopes and dreams collapsing to the floor and desperation. Because people don't want all of your knowledge and expertise and all the possible information to get a particular result. Result. They want what I call the bird's eye view. So you might have heard, like, as the crow flies, right? You want to think about that in your program. What is the fastest route to the destination? So assuming that people don't want to become an expert, if you're doing a certification or train the trainer, that's a different thing. But for most things that most people want to learn, what's the fastest, simplest path to the outcome? And that's actually something that AI is not always good at, because AI has access to all of human knowledge and all of human information, including bad advice and good advice, if it's been published, is querying this. Am I right? So base. Someone who's got expertise in a particular area and knows what it takes through grounded practice. I like to like, you know, personally, I'm a practitioner I'm never going to be the person who only teaches and no longer does something myself. I just completed my 33rd course and program, launched it this year, just finished delivering it. So I know when I'm still in the weeds and I'm still doing it on a regular basis to be able to understand how the market has changed and how I can continue to evolve. So the best courses come from practitioners, but also practitioners who've learned how to teach and deliver results to others, not just a result that they've done themselves right. So the idea is creating that bird's eye view, the fastest path to the destination, where you say, you know, yes, you could do this, this and this, but honestly, these are the essential things, like you'd commented on, wow, five to ten minute video a day to crack the idea. Well, that distillation comes from 15 years of experience. Is that making sense? So I know that 100% 50 possible ways to come up with your idea, but I found just the five that actually move the needle and I'm going to remove the other 45 for you. So this is what the best courses do. So courses, there's a difference between like just information dumps, like I said, which is just, let me just give you a bunch of information. And you used to have entire modules which was just context sitting. Now I believe in getting people into action from moment one of day one, because how someone starts is how they're going to finish. So right away, the way I teach people to create courses is you want to deliver a win within the very first thing that people do and make it a win that sets the stage for the ultimate win at the end of your program. And, and so you want to train people that anytime they interact and engage with you, they're going to do things that allow them to win and get one step closer to that destination that we were talking about. Right. So what you're doing is you're creating an implementation roadmap and you're giving people the step by step instructions in a way that actually is super simple, that anyone can do it, where you're removing complexity, you're removing doubt, you're giving templates, you're giving frameworks, you're giving formulas, so, so you can't lose. Does that make sense? So let me give you an example to make this real. I had a student who was teaching musicians how to get their music listed on television shows. And the very first step that he had people do before he came to me was go kind of fill out the paperwork to get registered with each of the TV studios that accepted music by amateur musicians. And I was like, dude, you're asking musicians to do paperwork. You can get there. But I wouldn't start there. I had him reconfigure the program where the very first step was to create the Dream 50 list, which is the 50 television shows that if you were on just one show by the end of the program, it would be a massive win. But here's where a lot of people don't take it far enough. Then you have them go just figure out, well, what are your favorite shows? You want to do the laid work on behalf of your students, so there, there's no place for them to get stuck. So I said, okay, so go figure out what are all the shows that do accept submissions. Then I want you to organize them by genre, right? And then have people look at all the different shows. And now if everyone put something on their list, they're like reinforcing the promise and the destination 50 times over every single time they checked off one of these things on the list. Does that make sense? So I'm going to choose these 50 shows. You've got it sorted and organized for me. I know it's feasible. Then, then they have a vision of what success looks like. So that very first training, it gets them into an action, but an action that sets up the destination and then creates desire to continue. And we want that action to be so simple that nobody can fail. Right? So removing all friction while making the action step clear and creating action, that creates a vision of the future too. Now when people started the course like the success rates just skyrocketed by simply changing the very first steps. So this is an example where if AI was saying, how do you get your. If you were to ask AI how do I get my music listed on television? They would probably tell you to go, well, here you have to go to this website and fill out this paperwork and do this stuff and you're like, at that point in time. But here's the thing, this is actually a difference between I don't want to get too geeky, but it's something called a function focused design versus human focused design. Function focus is we want to get people listed on TV shows. The first step in the process is fill out the paperwork. And it's assuming that people come in with massive amounts of motivation and skill and are self motivated to do things. Human focus is like humans are coming in, they're messy, they're gnarly, they're overwhelmed, their kid just puked in the corner, all this stuff that's happening in real life and then say, okay, given that I don't have someone's full attention, given that they might have 10 other kind of fires raging in their life right now, how do I make this next step so easy and accessible and use it to generate and reinforce the motivation that it took for them to buy and validate that it was a good choice for them to make and also kind of prevent the buyer's remorse. That often happens when people go for their big dreams and hopes. So this is kind of the difference between an experience product is what I talk about in an information product. Because if information alone changed our lives, we would be living in Google topia. Like we would have six pack abs, we would have overflowing bank accounts, we would have healthy relationships with everyone in their lives because we know how to do everything. Or we can find out how to do everything with a couple clicks of our button on chat GPT. But do we do it all? No. How many of you have like 10 or 20 extra pounds? You know, how many of you have some relationship in your life that's degenerated to the point where you're not sure you can recover? You know, how many of you, you know, continue to make say decisions, whether it's buying decisions, eating decisions, you know, financial decisions that don't necessarily support your biggest goal at all times. We, we all do. That's the human condition, but it's not because of a lack of knowing. AI has taken care of that. Google, YouTube has taken care of that. It's for lack of motivation and self belief to take action. And that's where the course creation industry is still massively valuable. It's not just giving people motivation and self belief, it's manufacturing it through the structure of the course, but also it's providing the guidance, the accountability and support. Because no matter what, there is going to be friction in the process. You know, so I always heard that true mastery is not preventing problems, it's having a plan in place for what to do when you hit them. So ultimately, as a course creator you are a guide to a destination. You know all the roadmaps, you know every pothole along the way, you know every possible detour, wrong turn people can take and you're there to not just show them the path, but also standing at each of the potholes and each of the detours being like, I see you kind of found yourself here totally natural. It happens sometimes, right? And guiding people back, that was a.
- [30:47]
A
Power packed a lot of Insights, a few takeaways for me. I love the idea of you mentioning mastery. You know, one of our core values at Think Media is the pursuit of mastery. And when you talk about this, it just becomes abundantly clear to me, again, the difference between a master like yourself and someone at a shallow level. And I actually don't blame people for, you know, thinking online courses are scams because again, so many people just slap information together or they haven't got, they haven't done the work that you're describing to think about bringing transformation. So it's like, it's not that it's not necessarily valuable or even, you know, connected to the dollar amount someone might pay, but the level of distinctions with which you're thinking about where people start, what's happening in their mind, how to drive them to results. These are not even comparable things like just thud static information versus an architected experience. On the level which you've diving into psychology, I mean, it's giving me so many insights where I would almost argue 99% of online courses are function focused design, which is already the problem. But if it's human focused and you now have empathy, understanding of the individual, you're structuring things so that there is constant wins, emotional engagement, you're, you're hacking their psychology in an ethical way to drive them towards a result. It just shows me why you're one of my mentors in this space for just learning how to continually do a better job at what we're doing in terms of our education programs. So experience versus information, that is a major divide. And the creators and business owners and teachers who create transformation products are going to continue to win no matter what cynics say. Like if the online course industry is not going anywhere, but there will be a divide between those who have trust and those who have testimonials and those who experience results. And then I'd also, I kind of want to, I, I feel an objection here that I'd want you to hit though, because as I listen to you talk, number one, it's clear that you're a total master. Number two, it's clear that you're worth following if somebody wants to do this to, you know, let you teach and train them. But it also still might. I, I'm like, this is like, kind of overwhelming because if I want to do what you do, man, I just kind of want to sit down and organize my, I mean, ultimately it could be joining your program and that's why it exists, because people need your help. But if you were to just give people, like, some insights in a way, totally reshift their paradigm. Like, they need to become someone who's skilled at, at not just transferring information, but transferring 26 other distinctions or more in terms of how they're doing this. What are those first steps?
- [33:35]
B
100%. First of all, I want to quickly do one more red flag. So because we are talking about red flags, and I jump straight into the solution. But another red flag is when you hear someone's origin story and why they're doing what they do, and if they don't have a good reason why they're delivering a particular product or program, then they might just be doing it to make the cash grab. And there's nothing wrong with getting paid, but when you're able to line up what you care about and something with what you're getting paid for, it's going to be a better teacher or mentor because that person actually is invested in your success because they've seen the result in their own life. So I'll say that that's another kind of challenge in terms of the overwhelm factor. I know I've got a level of depth and experience that, you know, after 15 years and $53 million in online course and program sales, you know, it's easy to compare your paper plane to my jet plane. And I said that that's a trap, right? You. You definitely don't want to do that. But the good news is that even though what I'm talking about is counterintuitive at first, because it's not the way that we've experienced courses before, and it's not the way that we actually experience education. The current education system began in the industrial revolution to train people to become factory workers who all needed identical skill sets. They were not trained in a world in which reinvention is one of the core, you know, requirements, you know, independent thinking, the ability to kind of make your own conclusions. So on the one hand, we've all kind of been sat in school rooms that didn't feel like engaged us and supported us in learning. And so we think that that's what learning is. But true teaching is actually helping people develop the skills for themselves. But ultimately, an experience product is designed to get people to take action from moment one of day one in a way that's so natural and so easy and actually reinforces their commitment while developing their motivation and helping them grow skills each step of the way. So I know it sounds like a lot to process when I first share it and explain it, but so many of my students find that it's actually really simple and really intuitive, and it actually fits with what you've experienced in your life. We've just been taught that learning is something different that doesn't actually match, which is why we're creating the products and programs that don't actually deliver results and transformation. Not intentionally, but just because that's how we learned and what we experience, both in the schoolroom and through the programs that we've taken in the past. So this is a really different way to create courses and programs. So when you first hear about it, you might need to kind of rewire the way you think about it. But ultimately, so many of my students find that it's deeply intuitive because it's what we know to be true. And it's also all the more reason, if you're considering doing this, to actually learn a methodology like that. Because what you might naturally do just from what you've learned to do and what you've seen out there, is not the roadmap that's going to create a course that drives results and transformation and people's results and transformation and the experience they have, how they feel going through it, is actually the key to your future success. Because when you can deliver results and transformation and positive feelings and experiences, people will refer you, they'll want to buy from you over and over again. Your lifetime customer value will go through the roof, and it's going to give you confidence, because you're going to see people taking action, you're going to see people getting results, and you're going to realize the value and impact of what it is that you have to offer. Now, a lot of people go into course creation because they themselves have either mastered something or developed a skill set, and they want to share that with other people. But there's a difference between having a skill or having a knowledge base and being able to transfer that to somebody else. So they develop that skill and they get results for themselves. And I think many people, when they first jump into this idea of course creation, are only thinking of it from the perspective of sharing knowledge or expertise. But I found that all experience products are about getting people across a specific finish line. And I say that finish line needs to be so clear and so specific that you could photograph someone crossing the finish line. You can have that photo finish race like a, you know, Formula one cars and things like that. And then all you're doing is helping as many people as possible get across that finish line. And I find that that actually simplifies Product creation, because all you need to put into your program is what's going to help people cross the finish line. And the truth is, what they're paying for is not the knowledge, it's not the information. It's crossing that finish line. So an experience product is not about knowledge transfer. It's not about sharing expertise. The best experience products either help people achieve a goal or complete a project, or enhance their performance in a key area of their lives, or enhance their status. So those are all really powerful finish lines. Now, you can add things along the way that kind of sweeten the pot, but that's ultimately what you're doing. So if you can reframe to understand. And a lot of projects aren't about necessarily achieving goals. And school wasn't about achieving goals or outcomes. School was about passing a test. Schools was about developing skills in isolation, in a vacuum that hopefully would be useful in life at some point in the road. But experience products are about helping people achieve results that are going to benefit them right now, you know, in their current stage of life, in their current reality. And that's also what makes them really sellable. Because when you get that clear and specific about what I call your product mission and what that finish line is, people are buying that outcome or transformation and your path to the outcome or transformation. So I've actually found that this approach simplifies product creation and gets people to a result faster in a lot of different ways, by working more naturally with the way that we learn and by kind of reframing the expectations for yourself of what your program needs to be to really demystify the process of what needs to be in it, how robust it needs to be, what's actually important to people. I like to say it's presence over perfection. Like a lot of people think they need to have all of these, like, fancy videos and Whiz Bang effects and hire an editor and hire a crew and buy all this technology. But you can show up on Zoom with your crappy computer camera, and if you're really present and grounded and real with people and guiding them, they're going to find that more valuable than all the fancy Whiz Bang videos. In fact, Masterclass.com the company that has Steven Spielberg and, you know, the, the French Laundry chef Thomas Keller and the famous astronauts and Simone Biles and all of these people, they have actually had to lay off their staff two or three years in a row because people don't want to learn from the absolute masters, things that are inaccessible for them. They actually want to learn from teachers who can show them a path that they can walk. It's not necessarily the path to best in the world, absolute mastery, total perfection. But it's like, how can I do this in my life right now? How can I get out of this pit? How can I solve this problem? How can I overcome this challenge? How can I get to this outcome? And these are real people who want real solutions to real problems. And as a real person with real problems and real solutions that you've developed through the school of hard knocks in life, you can deliver that. And I find that that's what people want. That's what they'll pay for. They want real guides to real destinations. One story I like to tell, just to allow you to really embody the power that you have right now and the potential that you have right now is imagine you wanted to climb to the top of Mount Everest and you had choices as to who your guide or mentor would be. One of them was an Olympian who has, like a perfect body, who has been in extreme conditions his entire life, kind of trained, you know, at the top of the highest mountains in the world, and basically won gold every single time from the time he was a kid. And the other one was kind of like an overweight computer programmer who used to watch extreme sports on TV and never did it for himself. And then one day woke up and said, you know what? Enough. I'm tired of watching people do this. I'm going to do this myself. But he didn't get to Everest the first time or the second time or the third time. First time he wasn't fit enough. Second time, he didn't have the right gear. Third time, the storms came in, but he got there in the fourth time and he learned everything about what might stop you from getting there along the way. And he realized that he could make this dream come true for almost anyone. Who do you want to take you to the top of Mount Everest? Well, it probably depends on who you are. If you are that hyper fit uber Olympian, you might choose the other hyper fit Navy seal, uber Olympian. But if you're like a regular person with a big dream, I personally want to learn from the person who tried and failed and would understand me. Right. And that's what we forget.
- [42:41]
A
Yeah, that's incredibly. I took so many epiphanies away from that. And I would agree that's, I think, what people don't realize, they think that person's unrelatable. And there's an objection there that's like, well, of course that guy can do it, but my lung capacity is probably not there. But when it's somebody who's just a few steps ahead who can share with me their struggle and their destination and then give me a proven path, that is a massive opportunity. There's a few other takeaways I want to share, but as we land the plane, I do want to just remind people about a couple things. If you're listening to this, there's been so much information you're probably trying to grab it all. But if you want to stand out, avoid being another scammy course and crack your profitable course idea. Then remember that Marisa has a free five day challenge and it's only five to ten minutes a day to crack your profitable course idea with AI entirely free smartcourse ideas.com and we'll link that up in the show notes three free AI tools. So thank you for putting that together so that you could get a idea quick when it comes to locking that in and consider all she's just done the heavy lifting. She's done this for 15 years so you'll be able to benefit from that. I also wanted to share a couple of my biggest takeaways there. I am so inspired listening to you talk about the education system, how it used to be and even still is all form formed in the Industrial Revolution versus where it is now. And this gets me excited. For listeners that do want to get into the education space to package what they know in an online course, even better to package what they know in an experience product. I am personally I love learning lifelong leaders or lifelong learners. I love online courses myself, books, all this stuff. But there's just such a difference between the Industrial Revolution model and this new model of independent thinking and really empowering people and inspiring people and actually leading them to results. So that got me so inspired hearing that. I'm sure a lot of our listeners, I know a lot of people in our community are even about unschool or world school or homeschool and are contrarian in their thinking. This is the new era of people that are changing people's lives and also making a great income doing it. And so I love hearing you talk about all of those things. So I do want to make sure think media, podcast listeners check out show notes and some of the resources that are happening. That free challenge is typically a mini paid course. So depending on when you're listening to this, definitely take advantage of it now because free is a great price and you could if you are watching this sometime later, even the modest investment to get into that is worth doing as well. So that's that. Smart Course Ideas Marisa, you've added a ton of value today. If people want to follow you, connect with you, where are you at online?
- [45:28]
B
Live your message.com, live your message on YouTube, live your message on Instagram, live your message across the world. That's where you'll find me.
- [45:35]
A
Thank you so much for all the value you added today. And Think Media podcast listeners. Hey, if you have value today, it means the world if you like, rate, review or share the podcast wherever you watch or listen. And hey, by the way, you're listening to this on Spotify or Apple. You've been here a while, maybe a few weeks, even a few months. You've been getting value, but you've been procrastinating, leaving a review. Clicking five stars on Spotify takes one second. Can you just open up your app and do that? And if you're on Apple, I know you can leave a text review and it really does spread the word. Again, if you're not getting value, then don't do it. If you actually have a complaint, I guess you could do that as well too. We'll take it. I would love your feedback. But seriously, so grateful that you are part of this community. And until a future episode, my name is Sean Cannell, your guide to building a profitable YouTube channel, and I can't wait to connect with you soon.