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- [00:00]
A
Hey, before we jump into the show, I just wanted to take a second and say thank you for listening. I know that life is busy and you have a lot of options when it comes to the content you consume. So whether you're new here or you've been listening to the Think Media podcast for years, I just want to say thank you and I appreciate you. Okay, let's jump into the show.
- [00:21]
B
It is so tempting to just, like, quit. Could be, like, one video away, and you just never know when that thing is going to finally click and you're going to be like, oh, okay, I'm starting. I get this.
- [00:32]
C
If we're stalled, that what we've been doing got us to where we are, but to get to where we want to go, we're going to try something else. And so I love that you even took a shot at one of these 16 strategies. I think a lot of people could do this, and it's as simple as here's why it's amazing. Welcome to the Think Media podcast, the number one show bringing you unfiltered YouTube tips for building a profitable channel. I'm Nathan Eswine, one of the YouTube coaches here, and I'm joined with Josh Morgan today. And Josh is someone that had real traction on his channel, had built a successful channel, but. But it hit that frustrating wall where growth stalled out. And so in this conversation, I wanted to bring him on and just start. Start to break down exactly what he did, the pivots he made that helped him get momentum, going back on his channel in a pretty short period of time, and not just get more views and more exposure, but actually have income as well. Josh, how's it going, man?
- [01:24]
B
Hey, what's up, man?
- [01:26]
C
I'm so stoked for this.
- [01:27]
B
Yeah, me too.
- [01:28]
C
It's gonna be great. Well, hey, for people just, you know, linking up with you for the first time. Can you just give us a little story, just briefly? Who are you? What's. What's your channel about? You know?
- [01:37]
B
Yeah, absolutely. I. My name's Josh. I have been a pastor or in ministry for, gosh, 20 years or so. And several years ago, I finished a doctorate in Christian formation. And I had all this stuff, all this content, all this great stuff I learned. And I'd been, you know, applying it hands on in ministry, but started thinking about other channels maybe I could share this stuff with. So do I want to write a book? Do I want to, like, what do I want to do? And it just was clearly even communicated to me, like, hey, you need to start by sharing this stuff online. My start really was Instagram. So I spent a lot of time, short form Instagram. I spent a couple years growing to about 35,000 followers. And so. But then after a couple years, started really hearing the importance of things like email lists and other types of, like, relationships with, you know, your followers or customers or whatever. And so that's when I came across Think Media V R A stuff. And yeah, so that pivot has been a really interesting one for me because I was just taking Instagram reels and putting them on shorts and I was getting a lot of, like, traction. And I was. If I found, you know, on Instagram, if you have a reel that does well organically and you put money behind it to boost it, oh, yeah, it's going to do well. Right. So I kind of was applying the same logic to. To. To YouTube with a couple of posts that had done like, super well, like hundreds of thousands of views. So grew pretty quickly. But about the time that I kind of started figuring out, oh, there's like a different strategy on this platform for, for developing a particular type of follower and if you want to establish a business. And. And it took, I mean, it took like several months, almost a year to really fully make that pivot and start seeing the kind of traction that we talk about in VRA all the time.
- [03:40]
C
Wow. Okay, so I'd love to jump into what stalled growth looked like for you, so. Cause it's kind of wild. I think when we first met, like, you jumped on a group call inside of our elite program, and I remember being, like, surprised in a good way. Look, but I think you have like 20,000 subscribers on your YouTube channel. Does it sound right? Like, do you remember what number you were at?
- [03:59]
B
Yeah, 20, 21 something. Yeah.
- [04:01]
C
Yeah. Okay, so, like, that's kind of wild. Just to say out loud, this is why I wanted to bring you on for the conversation is like, at that level, that's actually a level a lot of people like to be at. That's usually, you know, if you've got everything else going on, to 20,000 subscribers, man, that feels like a pretty big milestone for a lot of creators.
- [04:17]
B
Sure.
- [04:18]
C
But why was that stalling for you? You have the number there of subscribers, but what did you feel like was missing at that point?
- [04:24]
B
Well, a big part of it was a significant number of those followers were coming from viewing and maybe even subscribing when they were looking at the reals that I was posting as shorts.
- [04:38]
C
Oh, yeah, okay.
- [04:38]
B
But they weren't connected to anything larger, like, like like brand or like a business plan or. And. And they weren't the type of followers that were necessarily even ever going to see my stuff again, you know, and so for me, a big stall. It really was. I felt like I got to a crossroads where I was like, okay, I could keep putting all this energy, effort, time, money, even into growing the follower counts, or I could really try to understand how this platform works. You know, spend some time, like, listening and learning from people who've done it and really, really kind of take that hit of like, this isn't going to be super fun for a while, but if this is really real, then, you know, it'll be worth it down the road.
- [05:28]
C
Yes, a hundred percent. Okay, so, like, what was the first move to get, like, unstalled? Like, the first move that you took to start switching things up? I just remember, and I want you to tell the story. I do remember on a coaching call, you just came back and you were like, so, like, I have this video that's doing really well, and it was like an outlier video. I think it might have been one of the first outliers you had in. In a minute for long form on your channel. What was. What happened there? How'd you start to get unstuck?
- [05:55]
B
Sure. So, I mean, at the very beginning, what I got into was the foundations. And I think the very first thing I ever did was the niche finder.
- [06:06]
C
Oh, inside our course. Yeah. Okay.
- [06:08]
B
Yeah. Which. So that was even before joining Elite or anything, and really just having to go through the work of going, like, what is my niche? Like, what. What am I doing? Why am I doing it? Who's my audience? That was super helpful. So then fast forward, because by the time you're in coaching calls with you guys, if you don't. If you don't at least have some sense of understanding of what that is, it's really hard to then take and directly apply it. What you guys are sharing with us, we are teaching us, you know, and so, yeah, by the time. By the time that I got into this call that you're talking about, I think I had enough of an understanding of what I was trying to do that I felt a little bit more comfortable trying out different types of videos. So whereas I was pretty much just doing like talking head teaching style videos, you know, Sean has a list of I was like 16 surefire video ideas or whatever.
- [07:03]
C
Yeah. Straight up.
- [07:04]
B
So he had like the podcast or he had the. There was one that was like the skyscraper or the interview or the one was reaction video.
- [07:14]
C
Yeah, that's right. Yeah.
- [07:15]
B
So then. So then, like, combining those things, I gave some. I gave Reaction Video a shot, and it quickly became like, the best performing. Up to that point, one of the best performing videos I had. So that was really exciting.
- [07:28]
C
That's crazy. So let's dive into this because we're talking about. Yeah, there's, like, some modules in our, you know, training and stuff, but one of them is the 16 sure Fire video. You know, video structures, video formats. So the one that you chose was Reaction style content. Can you break down just for someone who's listening, who. That I may not even know what we're talking about.
- [07:49]
B
Yeah.
- [07:50]
C
What does that mean?
- [07:51]
B
Yeah, it's. I'm sure that our listeners have heard that because. Or have seen this more and more. Maybe I'm seeing it more and more.
- [07:57]
C
Yeah.
- [07:58]
B
Where you have a. A content creator who is essentially watching something else, an interview or somebody saying something, and then. And then in some way, shape or form, they're reacting to it. Now a lot of them are. It's funny because it'll be a little square and they're watching it and they're just kind of going, you know, they're just like, making faces or something. That's right. And they're not even saying anything or. Or they might go like, yep, at the end or something. But this is so my. My niche is spiritual formation in the area of, like, discipleship. So it's. It's how to help people grow in their relationship with Jesus. But specifically, I'm kind of coming at it from like a, like a worldview type perspective. And so because I was willing to play with a few different types of videos, when I came across Reaction, I thought, oh, this is. This is very interesting to me because I'm listening to what Stevo or what, you know, James vanderbeek or Matthew McConaughey or Judd Apatow or like, I'm getting to hear their perspective on, like, spirituality and God. And then I essentially can hit pause and then I can go, here's. Here's like a biblical perspective on that same thing. But it was cool. Was. I was like, oh, this is. This is actually perfect for what I'm trying to do. And I would've never even thought to do it had I not had the, like, kind of nudge from you guys to try some different stuff out.
- [09:31]
C
Quick question. Does your YouTube channel feel stalled because, you know you need to try something new, but you just don't know what to do next? Josh just shared how one small nudge in a repeatable format, helped him stop guessing and get momentum again. And if you want help with that, this is exactly why we built VRA Elite. It's our YouTube group coaching program. If you want to talk to our team and see if it'd be a good fit for you, you can go to viral video coach.com to apply. It's not a fit for everyone, but if it is a fit for you, we'll get to hop on a free call with our team to get a look at your channel and help you strategize next steps. All right, back to Josh. I mean, first off, hats off to you for even trying something new, because I think that actually holds a lot of people back. When you're at this stalled spot, you're stalling for a reason. So, like, even just being a coach and, like, working with people, it's like, you. You're gonna have to try something new. That's usually right. Like, if we're stalled, that what we've been doing got us to where we are. But to get to where we want to go, we're gonna try something else. And so I love that you even took a shot at one of these 16 strategies. But this reaction style, I think, is so slept on. I think a lot of people could do this. And it's as simple as. Here's why. It's amazing. A lot of people don't know. Maybe you or me per se in the world. Right. But you and me versus nobody knows who we are. Actually, I'm surprised we got you on the podcast. Like, our people had to go back and forth.
- [10:51]
B
No, I know exactly what you're saying. Nobody knows. They could care less who I am.
- [10:56]
C
Yeah, but it's like. And that's a lot of us, you know, listening here to, like, podcast, like, relative to the world. You know what I mean? Gee, who is Josh Morgan? Who is Nathan S. Wine? Who's Stevo Gee? Well, okay, just a lot more people just know who that is. And it doesn't have to always be a person that you're reacting to. It could just be things inside of your niche, News headlines, a new product line, changes in your industry. Like, there's a lot of different things you could be reacting to that do a beautiful thing, which is connect what's unknown, which could be you, me, the creator. Right. To something that is known. A person, a place, a thing. And so I'm just. And you've. You didn't just do this one time, though, right? Because this led you to do. You've done other, other reaction style content.
- [11:39]
B
Yeah, I've probably, I've done at least half a dozen now. And, and then it also opened up the door to. Because so this, the reaction setup that I've put together, which again, even having you guys to like, you know, like a tech office call where I can go, what is that software? And how does that work? And to have somebody literally, literally, like I'm, I'm sitting here watching them like take over my computer and like help with settings and stuff like, that was fantastic. It's pretty sick. But the set, the setup is similar to a podcast type setup. And so, so I'm, I also have like an affiliate relationship with Logos Bible software. And so I was set up to do a, like a interview. I'm drawing a blank. You know when they do, when they like show you how to use the software.
- [12:30]
C
Oh, you do like a tutorial. You probably.
- [12:32]
B
Yeah, yeah. It was just like a run through of some new features. Okay. And, and so, and so that it made that easier. And then, then those videos have just been like exploding. So.
- [12:43]
C
Yes.
- [12:43]
B
And we're about, kind of one led to the other.
- [12:45]
C
That's okay. You already read my mind, man. That's where we're going is like. Because there's an effect here that happened which is pretty exciting. But for real quick, like you said, you're set up for reaction content. Can you break that down? Like, what have you learned about how to do that? Because there is a little bit of tech involved, right. How do you get the other thing on the screen? And you have to. How do you do that?
- [13:03]
B
I used to be in woodworking and when I first started, I had, I had like a chop saw. And so the name of the game at that point was how many different ways can I use this chop saw? And then eventually I would learn and I'd go, oh, there's actually a tool that does that. I don't have to use the chop saw for this. I can use the jigsaw or the router or whatever.
- [13:24]
C
Okay.
- [13:24]
B
So a lot of, a lot of video has been that where you go, you can, you can make stuff work and then eventually you go, oh, there's a program for that or oh, there's a piece of gear for that or whatever. So basically what I do now is I, I use OBS broadcasting software and, and I had to upgrade my computer to really handle it. But it, it essentially allows me to record the, the video itself. I can record a video of me reacting to it.
- [13:53]
C
Yeah.
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B
And it just, it just Makes the, the post editing so much quicker and, and, and look really great, you know, and so.
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C
Got it.
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B
Okay, that's been, that's been a big one. Is that kind of upgrading to the point where I could utilize obs?
- [14:07]
C
Yeah. Okay. Huge obs. Okay. So like you've got some sort of software that you need that will allow you to put the thing you're reacting to in the same screen as you. Right? Cause it's pretty, pretty important. Have you ever had any flags just out of curiosity, like YouTube strikes or copyright stuff?
- [14:23]
B
No, I was really concerned that I was. And I haven't had any. And anything that even looked like it where it kind of said, hey, we noticed you're using someone else's stuff, but we're not going to like penalize you. So that's like the closest I've gotten.
- [14:36]
C
Dude, that's YouTube just being like, we see what you're doing, but it's all right, we're here.
- [14:40]
B
We just want you to know that we're here.
- [14:41]
C
We just want you to know that we're here, big brother. Yeah. Well, hey, I think actually I would encourage our audience if you just go to Dr. Josh Morgan, search that on YouTube, you'll find his channel, and you can check out some of these reaction videos because you do it really clean. And of course, I'm certainly not a lawyer or like well versed in copyright law and all that kind of stuff. Disclaimer out of the way. But I will say the way you're going about it lends itself to less chance of copyright strikes, stuff like that, because you're differentiating the content. I think that's the main thing YouTube wants to see is. And so what that means is, okay, I've seen this before. Great, I'm gonna go try this reaction style content. Cause it sure worked for Josh, you know, and so then it's just like they find something and it's just like the shot is just the person watching the thing. And so having those disruptions of, like you said, you'll pause it, give some insight, give some clarity, give a teaching point, application, hit play, go back into it, maybe even through editing, like chopping stuff up. Like just the whole point is when you do a reaction style video, you want to make it different and make it fair use. Right. Is like the term where you're just commenting on, you're just trying to comment and you, you're trying to do this for an educational reason, for a value driven reason. So I think that's important. I think you have A really good setup for doing.
- [15:54]
B
Thanks, man. And. And just kind of a side note so, you know, copyright and all that. I know that Sean, just recently I saw he came out with something that talked about the just. Just enormous numbers of people who are getting demonetized for different reasons.
- [16:09]
C
Right?
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B
Yeah, so a little bit. But even more kind of affirmation in this direction for anyone who's interested in this route. This week I actually hit my monetization finally.
- [16:20]
C
Yeah.
- [16:20]
B
And so, yeah, so not only so so it was like the opposite, you know, so YouTube saw my stuff and they were like, hey, you're good. We do approve you, you know, so.
- [16:28]
C
Wow. Hey, well, congrats too. That's awesome. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Have you gotten the. So have you submitted? You're just waiting to hear back. The. I submitted.
- [16:35]
B
I heard back got approved and now I'm like, I think within 100, maybe 140 hours from like the. The top tier one. So, like, we're just about there.
- [16:45]
C
Oh, my man. I'm stoked for you.
- [16:47]
B
Come on.
- [16:48]
C
That's a way to kick off the new year. Yeah, dude, that's awesome. Okay, so what has happened? You shifted, you tried new content, and that definitely started to, you know, have things kind of unfold for you, views, new stuff. But what was cool is I remember it was like in the series of a few weeks, man. We were just talking about this before we were recording. It was like on the second call, it was like the. Or whatever. The next week you came in, you're like, so this other video now is doing really well, but this is in a totally different lane. Right. Can you talk about what you teased a little bit ago? What is this next video? This tutorial? You did software. How'd that happen?
- [17:23]
B
Well, so first of all, just shout out to you, and your Thursday morning meetings are always really great or your cohort lessons, because I feel like a lot of these have come out of that where everyone, you know, I'm in. I'm in like three or four of them a week, pretty consistently.
- [17:42]
C
Yeah.
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B
And everyone's kind of got their little space where they're encouraging. I feel like. I feel like I always come out of yours with homework.
- [17:49]
C
And.
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B
And so then.
- [17:50]
C
Fair enough.
- [17:51]
B
And I would be like, Jack. And I'd go, you know, do it. And, you know, would see how it went. And then I'd come back and report. Let me look back at the timeline. So I had. I had done my first reaction video.
- [18:01]
C
Okay.
- [18:02]
B
And then. And then I followed up with a talking head. Then I Did another reaction video. And both reaction videos, like, easily outperformed all my other stuff.
- [18:11]
C
Wow.
- [18:11]
B
So I'm starting to kind of think, okay, there's. What is it? Success leaves clues, right? And so, man. Yeah, Dude. And so Sean heard you.
- [18:20]
C
Where is he? You know? Yeah.
- [18:21]
B
Hey, did you notice my little.
- [18:23]
C
Yes, I see it. Shout out YouTube secrets. And I see that. Is that a dragon back there too?
- [18:29]
B
Yeah, yeah, Eagle. And then I like to keep an extra copy if I ever have, like a. Like an itch I need to scratch or something just to. I like it to just. I like to just be around it, you know?
- [18:41]
C
Oh, man. Totally immersed.
- [18:43]
B
So anyway, like, I'm kind of in this zone where I'm. I'm starting to pivot. I'm like, okay, this is. There's something here. Like, it. It's different. People like it. I thought it was a lot more fun too, because, like, big deal. It's like having a conversation with somebody. I mean, they're not there.
- [18:57]
C
Sure.
- [18:58]
B
But I'm. But I'm hearing them and I'm responding to them, and I just. Much more comfortable and natural with like a back and forth and so. Which was really, really cool. So then the. I reached back out to. I've been talking to Logos about doing, like, a demo of some new AI features that they're incorporating in their software that. That, like, hadn't been released yet. And so, so then I'm. So I found myself on a call just like this with a executive director of Logos, and he's telling me about these AI features that are. I think two or three of them had. Had just come out and one hadn't come out yet.
- [19:41]
C
Okay.
- [19:42]
B
And so. So then I, Taking all I had learned from the Reaction videos, I pieced that into a similar style, you know, demo type video.
- [19:54]
C
Yeah.
- [19:54]
B
That they then collaborated with. And then that when I posted that, I was able to say, like, hey, there's like this secret AI feature that Logos just revealed. And all the Bible nerds went crazy over it. So. And that one, that one became, like, to that point, it was easily the most successful one. I had some affiliate links in there where that was the first time I. I, like, made where I was like, oh, so this is how people, like, generate a pretty. A pretty, like, decent income from this kind of stuff. Those. The first experience I had with that.
- [20:29]
C
Wow.
- [20:30]
B
Yeah. Really cool.
- [20:31]
C
I love that story. And it's cool looking back at your timeline here too. Like, I see the Stevo video and you just see this big uptick and then just A couple videos later, well, you got some more reaction stuff. And then, then there's this video. And I remember you talking to me about this in that call. So here's what's interesting to me. Like, how would you. Because you just went through this process, you know what I mean? And you're like, just in. It just got, like, monetization going on, which is. I love your story. It's, like, so fresh. It's happening right now. Like, people could literally go do some of this stuff.
- [21:01]
B
Yeah, change. If I can do it, you can do it.
- [21:04]
C
Yeah. Like, cheers. That's what I mean, literally why we're talking. And so when you think about, okay, how did you. How would you encourage someone to go find an affiliate link? I don't know, like, how, you know, like, how would you encourage someone to think through what's something in your niche, your industry, whatever, like, that you could make a video about out, have a link to. And then potentially, like, you have income coming in from a YouTube video even before the YouTube Partner Program is in full effect, you know?
- [21:29]
B
Yeah, the. It's. It's pretty wild now that just like anything else, when you get into it, you start realizing, like, oh, I feel like everyone's got affiliate, like, opportunities. Man, I wish I could remember. I literally just saw an email and it was. I'm. This is not what it was, but it was almost like Walmart had said, like, hey, you want to be an affiliate? It was, like, so random. And I was like, oh, my gosh. Like, everybody's doing affiliates now. And so, yeah, I think if you're, if you're hearing this, I would kind of start with, like, the, the things that you frequent that are in your niche. So for me, I'm a pastor. I study the Bible. I was already using logos, and then now they happen to reach out to me. But I bet, I bet I could have looked into, like, someone. Right, right. And so it could be if you're in, like, fashion design, maybe you kind of look around there, or if you're in, like, real estate, I don't know, like, you know, like, maybe website tools or something. But maybe just kind of look around and see what those are. See what they're, like, requirements are. And then when I, I found that when you, they, they connect it to a video, you have a clear call to action. You make sure that that link's, like, right there. There we go above the fold so that they can click on it. And that would be some. I would just say, like, do it and try it. Again and try it again and see what happens.
- [22:52]
C
That's huge. You just get. You dropped the gem right there. So I just want to repeat it for our listeners. Like, okay, it's one thing to do all of this and find an affiliate and actually have a link you can drop. That's great. But it's kind of like that's step one. And there's a few other things we need to do is the second thing is like make the video. Make a good video. Right? But then also, this is huge. A lot of people miss this. Well, because I'll hear it all the time. I'll have the links in my description. But like, I'm not. No sales. Nothing's happening, no one's clicking. And it's like. I look at the description and it's buried. It's like all the way down at the bottom. And then I ask, what are you talking. Did you talk about it in the video? No. So it's like. And I'm laughing because I know I've made the same mistakes and it's just part of learning things. But you also need to think through then this whole other skill of how do I make it so easy for people? And I think the word we've used in calls before is like frictionless. Like so easy using the tools that YouTube gives me. Like, how do I just make it easy for people to click the thing, you know? So I think again, you're a great case study to go check out some of your videos with the Logos Bible software. Just because of how you're setting up descriptions, how you're talking about it in your videos, any teaching points there? Just because it's fresh for you. Like, what have you learned about making sure it's easy for people to click a link and how you. How do you talk about it in a video without feeling salesy or something? I don't know.
- [24:16]
B
Well, it helps to really be like, to really believe this is valuable. I mean, this is a really valuable thing. And I think it's really going to add value to your life. So that helps. I think a second one is really make sure that your video delivers the value before you're asking them to do something. So, so, so you're making a promise and you're like, thumbnail title hook. You're introducing this video. You know, you're promising something like, give that to them in the video. Then come back around and go, you know, it's like, well, if you thought that was great, you should. Here's something that, you know, if you Want to go deeper. Here's this tool that's really great. Now let's get back to the video. That's kind of how I'm trying. I try to approach it. So. And then what I've noticed is there's another thing Sean says about if something, something make a sequel or make a second one or.
- [25:12]
C
Oh yeah, yeah. Success leaves clues. Make part twos.
- [25:16]
B
Make part twos. Yeah. And so something I've noticed is I've gotten a lot of questions, like a lot of comments, a lot of questions. A lot of people who are like, yeah, I don't know about that. Maybe they're a little skeptical about AI and Bible software. So then I, I've just have started kind of making a list of that and then I'm going to reach back out to the director and just say, hey, can we do a follow up? Would you be willing to address some of these answers? And so, so I've, I've already been kind of thinking what would a part two look like? You know?
- [25:50]
C
Oh my goodness. Success does leave clues. Make part twos. I dig it. And it's cool to see like looking at your channel too. It's just fun, you know, seeing that. Wow. Some, the main, like main pillars of your long form content now are definitely like reaction style videos and we're doing tutorials talking about logos. Right. And so it's probably like you've probably created pillars on your channel that you might just keep rerunning, you know, for, for quite some time, honestly.
- [26:14]
B
Yeah, I just A little secret too. I week or two ago I took the original video, I edited it down, I cleaned some stuff up, I re like packaged it and actually reposted it and it's gonna, I think it might end up doing better than the first one. So.
- [26:30]
C
Wait, which, okay, which video?
- [26:32]
B
The. So if you. Back in November is when I first posted that logos video.
- [26:38]
C
Oh my God.
- [26:40]
B
And so I actually cut it down a little bit and then repackaged it and like moved the call to action and all. Like I, I mean I significantly changed. It's the same thing, but I significantly changed it and I've. I think it might end up outperforming it. Not too long.
- [26:55]
C
Okay, so we'll just, we'll anchor here for a quick second before we move on.
- [26:58]
B
Yeah.
- [26:59]
C
Because I'm sure someone's listening is like, you can do that?
- [27:02]
B
Wait a second.
- [27:03]
C
Yes. Like you. Wait, what did you, what did you do? And it is crazy to see here. Okay, like that first one you posted in three months has about 15,000 views. This second one you posted, which you're saying is the same thing. You change some stuff in nine days. It's at 11,000. You're totally right. Like, this is pacing to outperform the first one, but it's the same video. How did you change this? And when did you get this idea? This is even news to me. I'm pumped.
- [27:26]
B
Well, here's another thing I got out of one of your calls was you can, when you look at your analytics, you can actually look at where people dropped off and you can actually cut that stuff out. Which was probably not good for me to learn because I spend so much time messing with that now. Oh, no, but what you can also, I mean it, it, it you. So you can trim that fat away and maybe make your video even more higher performing.
- [27:51]
C
Yes.
- [27:51]
B
But you can also look at that and go, you can, you can go back to the video. You can, you can have that over here. And then over here you can trim that stuff out.
- [27:59]
C
Yes.
- [28:00]
B
Save it again, repost it. And so what I did was I like, I really trimmed down the intro. I took like all the stuff at the end. I like lost all the stuff at the end. I really trimmed it down and I kind of represented it as more of like, not really a highlight, but like, yeah, here was the whole interview. Now here's just like the, the meat, you know, meat. And it's still like a 20 minute video. But yeah, yeah, it, it kind of after like maybe a week, you know the thing where it'll say like 1 of 10 or 2 of 10. Yeah, yeah, it's telling you how it's. So it kind of ended up shooting past it. I was like, oh my gosh, this one's gonna outperform the other one.
- [28:38]
C
This is crazy going. Okay, so a couple clarity points here because we are playing with fire. Just as a coach, I know someone's like, oh, I'll just start downloading and re uploading. See this? That's not exactly what you're doing here. Like, there's some significant changes to the whole structure of the video. You are reusing footage you already shot. Right. But you're saying. So like you change significant things, even maybe change the sequence and stuff. But the reason you made those changes, this is the insight, is because of the analytics, like the retention curve from that first video. So you knew what to edit out.
- [29:10]
B
Because if it was like, if I lost like 15 of my viewers in the first like 20 seconds, I'm like, well, let's get rid of like 10 of those seconds.
- [29:16]
C
That's right.
- [29:17]
B
Let's see if we can keep them around longer. You know, let's fix that.
- [29:19]
C
Okay, That's a power up right there.
- [29:22]
B
Hey, I got a question for you. Yeah. Can you coach me right now?
- [29:25]
C
Live coaching. Let's do it.
- [29:28]
B
So then what. What would you say about creating like, later, like creating clips out of that,
- [29:35]
C
out of this second one that you've
- [29:37]
B
made either one of them, but even smaller clips of the original video or videos, for sure.
- [29:43]
C
I actually think that could be a really strong strategy. And I think it's. Especially if you're pulling out what you think in like 5, 6, 7 minute segments instead of like 20 minutes, like breaking it down. And again, what you could do is use the retention curve and be like, okay, what topics or comments even, what are people interested in from this video? And then what would be worth isolating as its own thing? I think in a pinch too, or just to help spread out your content calendar.
- [30:07]
B
Yeah.
- [30:07]
C
Under underrated move. You know, if you've got the analytics to, you know, kind of back up that play. Yeah, I like it. Yeah.
- [30:13]
B
All right.
- [30:14]
C
Okay. Well, now we know what you're going to be, you know, doing. Yeah, that's awesome. Okay.
- [30:19]
B
Yeah, that's right.
- [30:20]
C
All right. I'd love to kind of fast forward to. We've talked about, like, kind of how you got unstuck, lessons learned. I'd love to jump into, like present day. And we kind of already talk about this now, which is fun. But you, you definitely have more momentum now than you had before, which is exciting. How are you handling it? You know, like, what's. This is also a big coaching point. A lot of people don't know what to do actually when things start going well, it's like views come in or affiliate links are being clicked. And I'd love to hear about your process now. And you can take this really anywhere you want because things can be helpful. But maybe like, okay, after you uploaded a video or when uploading a video, what are you looking at now? What metrics are you care about? Are there things you're checking based on the stuff you've learned the last few months?
- [31:03]
B
Yeah, it really helps to have. So I told you niche was a big one. Like figuring that out, really, just solidifying it. And then format takes a lot of pressure off too, because you're not like, what am I going to do?
- [31:13]
C
Wow.
- [31:14]
B
But I still, it's funny. I mean, I still feel stuck often.
- [31:19]
C
It's.
- [31:20]
B
You still. I feel like I don't you still kind of. You'll hit. You'll have that post that gets like a thousand, like 2,000, 12,000, 15,000. And then the next week you post one and it's like 50.
- [31:31]
C
Yes.
- [31:32]
B
I just still happens. And so I think I'm just trying to. Well, one. One thing I've learned is again, this is so different than short form. Like your videos are not like either make or break in the first 24 hours. You know, it. It could take weeks, it could take months.
- [31:51]
C
Yep.
- [31:52]
B
So an example is I did back in December, I made a video and it was just a reaction to like James Vanderbeek talking about some faith stuff. And it didn't, like it didn't get any traction. And then maybe last week I checked it and there all of a sudden I had like seven, almost 800 views. Well, it's because he passed away and people were now like looking for stuff about him.
- [32:20]
C
Wow.
- [32:20]
B
Which one? That was interesting because it got a huge boost just because people were searching for it. So like I had kind of set it up for them to find it.
- [32:29]
C
Yes.
- [32:29]
B
But then for me personally, I was just really thankful that I had done it in a way where I wasn't like, it wasn't like, like I was grabbing for views. I was just trying to make something quality so that like when the guy passes away, I'm not gonna feel like gross about this thing that I made about them. You know what I mean?
- [32:50]
C
Of course. Yeah.
- [32:51]
B
Yeah. So I learned a lot through that. And so, yeah, even when you feel stuck, I think it's just more about kind of trying to think long term, trying to be consistent, knowing like, hey, this, I've seen this work. I can keep. Keep at it, you know, and so that's really all I'm trying to do.
- [33:07]
C
I love it. It's. It's also really cool too. It's. This is an interesting thing that I'm picking up more on. Just as like it's been longer that I've been coaching and helping people out and there's some crazy stat which I should get the actual stat. So I am intentionally paraphrasing and someone can go back it up. Okay, I'm aware of that now. But there's the like some. There's some crazy correlation between people who are net worth millionaires or even like beyond that, like just crazy high net worths. There's some correlation between that number that people get to and like their level of integrity. Of integrity actually of values and stuff like that. I think it was the Ramsey Study of millionaires or something. But and it's just interesting, I'm just noticing this more with people I've been coaching now and just been doing it for a little bit and just seeing channels get their silver play buttons, seeing channels getting monetized, seeing channels that are doing well. And just about all these people I'm picturing in my head right now, and you're one of them, is like having a high level of integrity. And what kind of what you just articulated, which I actually don't think a lot of people can articulate, which is like knowing just to even have the thought process and awareness of how I would want a video to be perceived because I published it is actually it's a values thing. Right. Like you know what you're not going to do, you know what you will do, you know what you're going to stand for, you know what you're not going to tolerate. Like I don't know if you want to lean and maybe I'm just inviting the inner pastor into the inter, you know.
- [34:35]
B
Yeah. You know what I mean?
- [34:36]
C
But like that's obviously part of your world in your, in your day to day work. But how do you. Yeah, anything there like thinking through values and maybe even helping out. We have significant portion of people could be listening to this who is a faith based creator and just trying to navigate that whole thing to content and doing it well. Any thoughts there?
- [34:55]
B
Oh man, so many thoughts on that.
- [34:57]
C
Here we go.
- [34:59]
B
So, I mean it is such a potentially tricky thing to navigate. I, I mean just total honesty.
- [35:07]
C
Yeah.
- [35:07]
B
I was just this morning, you know, like studying, praying, you know, and, and just talking to the Lord about this thing in my heart that pops up on occasion that just wants to be made much of. And, and man, like you have like, if you want to feel like people are making much of you go, go make stuff that they like on social or like YouTube or whatever. And so yeah, I think, but I think the, but you know, the reason I was talking to the Lord about it was because I personally believe, you know, that he's my God, that Jesus is my Lord. I, my, I ultimately want my life to honor him. And he, you know, I do that by like loving other people and that that reflects him, that represents him.
- [35:56]
C
Yeah.
- [35:57]
B
And so that's a, that is a lens that I'm regularly trying to think through and create through.
- [36:07]
C
I appreciate you just being honest and like kind of being real there. And I know that, you know, you would even admit yourself like working towards this end perfectly. Right. Because we're all human. But I do think you are a cool model. And there's several other people I can think of, too, of, like, you're doing reaction content, which is typically a can. It's. It's. I feel like it's a slippery slope, man. Like, with what you're reacting to and choosing to engage with and choosing to attach your name to, like, wow. Like, it's a great views accelerator. That's why it's one of our 16 strategies inside of our training. Right. And it works. You're living proof. But I like that it's working for you in the way you want it to work for you, and I think that's something. If you're listening, don't forget, if you hear a YouTube tactic, a strategy, a thing to do, it doesn't necessarily mean that, you know, you can't do that specific strategy your own way. Like, a good question is, what would it look like for you to do a reaction video? If you're listening, right. Or like, you. How would Josh do a reaction video? Okay. This thing happened. Or the. Or even take it to the other side. Affiliate links and partnering with, you know, companies. My goodness. It's just. I think it's really important to have these guardrails in place. Right. Because a lot of people just reach. We just reach for things. I just want the views. I just want the money. I just say yes really quick, and there's nothing keeping us intact. So I. Dude, I appreciate that because there's a lot of gems in what you just said.
- [37:26]
B
Awesome.
- [37:27]
C
Yeah, I. I'd love to, like, pick your brain on what. What the next chapter looks like for you. What do you see, you know, what do you see in the next few months and when it comes to your content strategy, income streams, how you're using YouTube, how you want to use YouTube to, you know, funnel people to something or. Yeah. What do you think?
- [37:43]
B
It's interesting how. How this has turned into teaching opportunities for me.
- [37:47]
C
Wow.
- [37:48]
B
And I. Literally teaching. So I'm a adjunct professor at a seminary here in Fort Worth, and I have actually, for about maybe six months now, been in conversations with the Dean of Missions, who. Who knows what I do. And we've been developing a class that seminary students will take.
- [38:12]
C
Whoa.
- [38:13]
B
For sharing the gospel online. And so it's a lot of what we've been talking about, like, understanding how it works, having those kind of guardrails, you know, so how. You know, maybe instead of, like, thinking of being a missionary in a different continent, like, what would it look like to Be a missionary online. And so that's like, come on. Super exciting. And then. So that's not necessarily, like, what kind of videos am I gonna be making?
- [38:43]
C
Sure what's on your mind, though, like, next.
- [38:45]
B
But yeah, it's like, Like, I would have never. I would have never thought, like, oh, this is gonna be a seminary class, you know. Yeah. And then just some, like, coaching opportunities with some people who. They love the Lord. They're trying to figure out the, like, online ecosystem thing.
- [39:02]
C
Yes.
- [39:03]
B
I mean, these are. These are like a couple of gals that have, you know, they've got books with publishing houses coming out this year, and I'm helping them think through, like, online presence and stuff, you know.
- [39:14]
C
Wow. So already just passing on kind of what you've been learning.
- [39:17]
B
Yeah. And that's my favorite. Yeah. And then. And then I think that the. So then, like, what am I doing on YouTube that. That hands on. It helps shape that because I go, I learned this. I can share that with you. I experience this. I can empathize with you. And so, yeah, I would love to see. I've. I've gone back and forth with logos a little bit on some ideas that if I don't know that they're gonna be like, yeah, great. But if they were, it could be really cool avenues to go down. Yeah. Like, if I were to incorporate logos in some of these reaction videos, like, is that something that. To see, like, it in that context, you know, because. Or, you know, I have some lead magnets that I've developed for spiritual growth, and, like, you know, is that gonna. Is that gonna encourage somebody? Do they want to be kind of part of my weekly, like, encouragement email, like, just kind of just developing those things?
- [40:13]
C
I love this. What I'm really. What I'm hearing you say is, well, there's a lot, you know, which is cool, because I don't know that you, what, six months ago or whatever it is, like, would have necessarily seen any of that. You know what I mean? So the other side of getting unstuck and trying new things and, like, everything you've walked us through in this episode so far, from getting clear on your niche, trying new formats, you know, setting up values and guardrails, like, now all these other things are on the table that weren't just there, you know.
- [40:40]
B
Absolutely. Well, and I'll say this, so some of those things, no, I didn't know. Some of them. I did. And after. And I spent a long time trying to figure out, like, I was like, okay, I can only really put all my effort, energy into one thing. And then, you know, it really became clear that that thing needed to be YouTube. And if I was gonna, like, learn how to do that.
- [41:03]
C
Yeah.
- [41:04]
B
Then I needed to, like, connect with Think Media. I needed to join vra. I mean, that was, like. It was a while. It was a while to get there, like, several months. But last July, I was like, okay, this is what I need to do. And I'm. I'm gonna invest in this, and I'm gonna. I'm gonna be all in. And. And it's been. It was a really great decision, for sure, man.
- [41:25]
C
I'm so pumped. And. And just, like, so cool, right, that it sound like at the right time, you're like, it's really time to take this YouTube thing seriously. Let's go. Let's get help. And to your credit, too, like, you are. You're showing up to all the calls, man. You know what I mean? Like, you're doing the homework. It's just cool to see what's happened in such a short period of time because of these changes, which is why I wanted to just, hey, like, let's hang out in front of our audience, and maybe we could share some of these insights, because you're doing really cool stuff in the midst of a, you know, a time period where a lot of people would say, YouTube, it's just. It's impossible to grow. You're never going to get ahead. Um, it's. It's over for small channels, or, you know, it's not like it used to be, which there's some truth there, but there are strategies in place, and you're someone who's just saying that still works, you know? Yeah. I had to change some things, had to learn some things. But here's what you did, you know?
- [42:10]
B
Yeah. So, I mean, a lot of people that are like, oh, it doesn't work, because it looks like it's working for me. Yes. We get to be those people. We get to be. It's not working because it looks like it's working.
- [42:23]
C
That's exactly. I know. It's what it is. It's like, yeah, it is. It's working for me, but it's true. Right? And you just walked us through all of that, so. Hey, would you. You know, if you're thinking about somebody who could be listening and. Okay, what would you tell a stalled Josh from a year ago?
- [42:43]
B
Dude, my. I tell you that I still. I need to tell myself this more often, but it is so tempting to just, like, quit.
- [42:54]
C
And.
- [42:54]
B
And the thing Is. Is like, I'm not talking about. So for me, and. And, like, my Christian perspective, if I felt like the Lord was leading me towards a different thing, I need to step away. That's one thing.
- [43:06]
C
Sure.
- [43:06]
B
But if it's. If you're like. If you're just, like, you're discouraged, if you're like, burnt or whatever, there's. There's a handful of other options that can kind of keep. Keep you going other than just like, quitting, you know? And so part of. Part of my stall was just out of, like, kind of discouragement. I just kind of was like, well, I'm going to go try something else. Well, then I was like, no, YouTube was the right thing. So then when I came back, I almost had to, like. It was like, worse than starting over. It was like convincing the girl you broke up with to, like, give you another chance. And so. So I would just say, like, I would just say consider that. Because, you know, maybe it's like, maybe you. Maybe you just kind of ease off on how often you post or maybe you look for a format that. That it's. Maybe a little. Works a little bit better with your. Maybe your, like, personality or maybe your schedule or maybe your content or, you know, just kind of like, I would try some other stuff because I. I mean, golly, you guys. Sean always say you could be like, one video away. And yes. You just never know when that thing is going to finally click and you're going to be like, oh, okay, I'm starting. I get this. You know, man.
- [44:23]
C
No, that's actually incredibly encouraging. How have you been able. What's helped you determine the difference between knowing this is something you to stick with versus this is something I should let go and totally answer from your own experience. Whatever. But I'm just curious.
- [44:38]
B
Yeah, well, like I said, I mean, even this morning, I was. I was reading the Bible and I was praying, and I felt like I had to. There's this great George Mueller quote where he's talking about his process, and he says, the first thing you gotta do is get to the point where there's zero, like, selfish ambition in your heart.
- [45:01]
C
Wow.
- [45:01]
B
So if, like, if you want to know you're in the Lord's will, you have to first get to that place where you're like, there's not one ounce of selfish ambition here. Like, it's. I just want to know you and your will. And he said, that's, like 90 of it, you know?
- [45:12]
C
Okay.
- [45:13]
B
And so I feel like. I feel like when you can do. Because because the, the tendency is to. Selfish ambition will muddy the waters so fast. And then, and then I know a lot of people in the church that would throw the baby out with the bath water instead of doing the heart work to, like, clear the waters, you know? No. And so I think that if you can do that, like, if you can go to the Lord and you can, like, honestly sincerely talk to him about the things that are distracting you from his will, and you can confess those things to him, you can turn from those things and you can clear those waters and you can, like, then feel good about, like, well, what's the next video? That is. It's so helpful. And so did I answer your question?
- [46:00]
C
No, you did. You really did. I wanted you to take it wherever you wanted to go.
- [46:03]
B
Like, yeah, that. That was where my mind went. I mean, I think that's such an important. That's such an important distinction.
- [46:07]
C
Yes.
- [46:08]
B
Between, like. Because then you can, then you can have confidence and, like, I'm going to try. I'm going to do. I'm going to try another one. I'm going to pray about another idea or another video or 100%.
- [46:18]
C
No, man, I think you nailed it. And I think that I appreciate you sharing because it's like, okay, yeah, even if you're not, you know, following Jesus or anything like that, it is also just an important note to think through. Okay, still. Still clear the waters, you know? You know what I mean? Like, sort stuff out. Where are we? What are we actually envisioning and why are we doing this stuff? And so anyway, I appreciate you sharing that, man. Josh, where could people just go and shout your stuff out? Like, yeah, where, where can people find you? Where can they hang out with you? What's some ways that you can help people?
- [46:46]
B
Yeah, I mean, obviously, Dr. Josh Morgan, that's my YouTube handle. And you can find links all over the place to, like, some downloads I've created or get on my email list. DrJosh Morgan.com. that's my website. It all kind of points you to the same stuff. It's pretty simple. And then you can find me on Instagram, but I really haven't been as active on Instagram. I'm like camping out in YouTube world.
- [47:12]
C
We've got you. Yeah.
- [47:14]
B
Dude.
- [47:14]
C
Man, what a rich conversation with Josh. If your channel feels stuck, here's the big takeaway. You don't need more effort. You just probably need a better feedback loop. Once Josh got clear on a few things his niche, tried new content formats and just paid attention to the analytics like what YouTube was telling him to do, and he did more of it. That's when momentum started to come back and come back pretty quick. This is the exact timeline that I can remember. Cause I remember like sharing this with our team and wanted to share share it with you here inside of Elite. He jumped that first group call that he had. He got an idea, and that single idea that he took from our call became one of his best performing talking head videos to the date. Right? You heard him talk about that. And then literally just like the second group call that I can remember with him, that is where we were talking about the logos video. And this was just in a few weeks. In just a few weeks. One idea, one tweak. Sean always says, right, Small tweaks lead to giant peaks. Josh is living proof of that. Like, I am discouraged. I'm not sure what to post next, and I don't want to keep doing this alone. That's exactly why we built VRA Elite. This is our intimate group coaching program that Josh is a part of where you get weekly coaching strategy, accountability. So you can stop guessing and you can start building momentum with confidence. If you want to see if Elite would be a good fit for you, you can go to viralvideocoach.com and hop on a call with someone from our team. This is a free no strings attached call. Just have someone look at your channel and help you strategize next steps. As always, thanks for listening. If you got value, let us know, like rate, share, review wherever you watch or listen. This is the Think Media podcast. I'm Nathan Eswine and I can't wait to connect with you in a future episode.