Podcast Summary: The Thyroid Fixer Episode 544 - "Estrogen and Cancer: What Every Woman Should Know About Hormones and Detoxification"

Release Date: July 22, 2025
Host: Dr. Amie Hornaman
Guest: Dr. Carrie Jones, Hormone and Detoxification Expert

Introduction

In Episode 544 of The Thyroid Fixer, Dr. Amie Hornaman delves deep into the intricate relationship between estrogen, hormone therapy, and cancer risk. Joined by renowned hormone and detoxification specialist Dr. Carrie Jones, the episode offers listeners a comprehensive understanding of estrogen metabolism, the myths surrounding hormone therapy, and actionable strategies for optimal hormonal health.

The Importance of Estrogen Detoxification

Dr. Carrie Jones initiates the conversation by emphasizing the complexity of estrogen detoxification:

“Estrogen has an exit plan. It needs to get broken down into something that we call water soluble. Because the hormone estrogen, the estrogens are fat soluble, so they can cruise around your bloodstream and out of tissues that can cruise in and out of your cells very easily. But in order to get rid of them, if you're going to poop them out or pee them out, they have to be water soluble.”
[10:37]

Estrogen detoxification is a multi-step process crucial for eliminating excess hormones from the body, thereby preventing potential health issues, including certain cancers.

Hormone Therapy and Cancer Risk

A significant portion of the discussion revolves around the Women’s Health Initiative (WHI) study and its lasting impact on the perception of hormone therapy:

Dr. Carrie Jones clarifies the misconceptions stemming from the WHI study:

“The estrogen that you make in your body from your ovaries or elsewhere or the hormones you take is part of your therapy as long as it looks just like your own. As long as you're on bioidentical, it's the exact same pathway.”
[12:25]

She elucidates that the combination of synthetic estrogen and progestin, not bioidentical estrogen alone, was responsible for a slight increase in breast cancer risk observed in the WHI study. In contrast, estrogen-only therapy did not show an increased risk:

“Women who've never done hormones unfortunately can still develop cancer... the women who were just on an estrogen, so no uterus, so no progestin or progesterone, they actually had a lower percentage risk of breast cancer.”
[19:45]

This distinction is critical in understanding the safety profile of bioidentical hormone therapy compared to synthetic alternatives.

Understanding Estrogen Metabolism

The conversation delves into the biochemical pathways of estrogen metabolism, particularly focusing on the different metabolites and their implications:

Dr. Carrie Jones breaks down the phase one detoxification pathways:

“Estrone goes through... the two, the four, the 16 pathway. And that puts an OH group on it. The two pathway is the better pathway to go through. The four pathway is the naughty pathway...”
[32:13]

She explains that while the two-pathway metabolite is more stable and beneficial, the four-pathway metabolite can lead to DNA damage and increased cancer risk if not adequately managed. The 16-pathway serves as a major detoxification route but must be balanced to prevent estrogen dominance.

Testing Estrogen Pathways

Dr. Carrie Jones emphasizes the importance of thorough testing to assess estrogen metabolism:

“My preferred test, which you've mentioned already, is the Dutch test. It's an acronym for Dried Urine Test for Comprehensive Hormones. It’s six pages of all the hormones you think...”
[25:49]

The Dutch test provides a detailed overview of hormone levels and their metabolic pathways, offering invaluable insights for personalized treatment plans.

Addressing Estrogen Dominance

The concept of estrogen dominance is explored, distinguishing it from simple hormone imbalances:

Dr. Carrie Jones defines estrogen dominance:

“Estrogen dominance is relative to progesterone in the luteal phase... If progesterone is not a big tall mountain, if it's dropped down also to a bunny hill, or maybe it hasn't been produced at all... estrogen wins.”
[21:27]

She highlights that estrogen dominance can manifest through symptoms like heavy bleeding, breast tenderness, and mood swings, all of which are indicators of an imbalance between estrogen and progesterone levels.

Supporting Estrogen Detoxification

Strategies to support effective estrogen detoxification are discussed in detail:

1. Dietary Adjustments:

   • Cruciferous Vegetables: Incorporating foods like broccoli, kale, and Brussels sprouts can enhance the two-pathway metabolism of estrogen.

     “These foods are really helpful for this pathway. Now, I've been asked, can I just eat my way through this pathway?... there’s a compound called Indole 3 Carbinol (I3C)... which turns into diindolmethane (DIM), helping shift towards the two pathway.”
     [47:15]

2. Supplementation:

   • Quercetin and Resveratrol: Natural compounds that reduce the problematic four-pathway metabolites.

   • DIM (Diindolmethane): Supports the shift toward the beneficial two-pathway metabolism, especially crucial for women on estrogen therapy.

     “DIM helps shift towards the two pathway... there is a retrospective study on predominantly women that shows that people on DIM, their two pathway goes up and their 16 pathway just shifts.”
     [49:32]

3. Lifestyle Modifications:

   • Hydration and Regular Bowel Movements: Ensuring proper excretion to prevent hormone buildup.

   • Limiting Environmental Toxins: Reducing exposure to harmful chemicals that can interfere with hormone metabolism.

     “If you're not going to the bathroom, you're already starting with issues, you're going to be estrogen dominant.”
     [44:48]

The Role of Diet and Supplements

Dr. Carrie Jones underscores the synergistic role of diet and supplementation in optimizing estrogen detox pathways:

“Supporting glutathione, which is a very potent antioxidant. So supporting glutathione, however, that looks... another comes from broccoli sprouts... sulforaphane helps open up some 200 drains, bathtub drains, shower drains in your body.”
[53:00]

She highlights key supplements and nutrients essential for each phase of detoxification, including:

• Glutathione: Neutralizes harmful metabolites.
• Sulforaphane: Activates phase two detox enzymes.
• B Vitamins and Magnesium: Critical for methylation and overall detoxification processes.

Recommendations for Patients

Tailored advice is provided for individuals at different stages of hormonal health:

1. Pre-Hormone Therapy:

   • Testing Before Intervention: Utilizing the Dutch test to understand baseline hormone metabolism.

     “It's either way you're going to use, you're going to test for these metabolites.”
     [57:14]

2. Post-Menopause Without Hormones:

   • Assessing Necessity: Determining whether hormone therapy should be initiated before proceeding with extensive detox testing.

     “Once we get estrogen right into your estrogen river, then I can see.”
     [57:14]

3. Women on Hormone Therapy:

   • Continued Support: Implementing supplements like DIM to ensure balanced hormone metabolism.

     “In like, menopausal women with low estrogen levels. If you're on estrogen... I would say yes, I would.”
     [50:21]

Conclusion and Next Steps

The episode concludes with actionable steps for listeners to optimize their hormonal health:

• Engage in Regular Testing: To monitor hormone levels and metabolic pathways.
• Incorporate Cruciferous Vegetables: Either through diet or supplements to support the two-pathway metabolism.
• Use Targeted Supplements: Such as quercetin, resveratrol, and DIM based on individual needs and test results.
• Prioritize Gut Health: Ensuring regular bowel movements and supporting liver function for effective hormone detoxification.

Dr. Carrie Jones reiterates the importance of a personalized approach, emphasizing that hormonal health is multifaceted and requires a holistic strategy.

Notable Quotes

• Dr. Carrie Jones [10:37]:

  “Estrogen has an exit plan. It needs to get broken down into something that we call water soluble.”

• Dr. Carrie Jones [16:18]:

  “If estrogen caused breast cancer or uterine cancer, we would see a bunch of 16 and 17 year olds with breast cancer and uterine cancer because they have more estrogen in their body.”

• Dr. Carrie Jones [21:27]:

  “Estrogen dominance is relative to progesterone in the luteal phase... estrogen wins.”

• Dr. Carrie Jones [32:13]:

  “Estrone goes through... the two, the four, the 16 pathway. And that puts an OH group on it. The two pathway is the better pathway to go through. The four pathway is the naughty pathway…”

• Dr. Carrie Jones [49:32]:

  “DIM helps shift towards the two pathway... their two pathway goes up and their 16 pathway just shifts.”

Additional Resources

For those interested in further exploring the topics discussed, Dr. Carrie Jones recommends visiting her website and listening to her podcast, Hello Hormones. Listeners can find more detailed information, free eBooks, and access to upcoming episodes that delve deeper into hormone health and detoxification strategies.

This summary aims to provide a comprehensive overview of the podcast episode, capturing the essence of the discussions while highlighting actionable insights and expert opinions on estrogen and its role in women's health.