Dr. Chris Motley (6:05)

Good job. I mean, you don't mean. You don't need me to say good job, but congrats. That's a lot.

Dr. Amy (6:11)

Well, yeah, but we haven't talked about traditional Chinese medicine and. Well, really, I haven't met anyone that I would want to talk about TCM about until I met you. So that's why you're here, really. And that's why we're talking about it today.

Dr. Chris Motley (6:23)

Thank you. I mean, really, we are kindred spirits and I thought we had such a good combo where it just felt kind of easy and where we were just able to like, converse because coming from like an alternative medicine kind of viewpoint with acupuncture and it's just great to meet some, like, you're versed in all the realms, like your functional medicine, alternative, holistic, even your western medicine. I think it's great. We have a conglomerate and was just so grateful. Talk with you. Thank you.

Dr. Amy (6:51)

Well, that's what I love about you too, is you do not poo poo Western medicine. You blend it. So, like, in the area of thyroid that we're obviously going to talk about today, you're not out there saying no one should be taking thyroid medication. All you need to do is traditional Chinese medicine. Like, you're not saying that you are blending the best of both worlds?

Dr. Chris Motley (7:11)

Not, not at all. My mother, she has, she had Hashimoto's and then it went to Graves Disease and then she's had issues with her thyroid and so with her doctor and her doctor's a functional medicine practitioner and I use herbals with it and we just coincide with it. So I, I'm not at all saying that One side should not, you know, you should only use herbs. But my mom's supporting case, so definitely.

Dr. Amy (7:34)

Right. And, and that's the thing. All of these different therapies, modalities can work together. It doesn't have to be one or the other. And unfortunately, conventional medicine kind of puts it in those boxes of you either follow what I say as your doctor and you take these pharmaceuticals or don't see me at all. And I've actually had some patients say that they've been fired by their doctor when they brought to their doctor other therapies, whether it's herbals or acupuncture or massage or supplements or dot or they've literally been told, see you later and good luck with that.

Dr. Chris Motley (8:10)

It has been. I've had some patients that have told me that they've talked to some practitioners in town where they would almost dismiss when they're talking about alternative medicine, but also like, even their own viewpoints, like, well, doc, I've been trying to think about this and I've been taking like apple cider vinegar to help something like that. And it's just none of that helps. None of that works, so don't even try it. It is, is refreshing though, when you find practitioners that go, you know, maybe it'll work and maybe it does work and maybe I do agree with it. So I'm, I get it. I'm in the same boat. Like, it's very, very tough at times when people don't agree with it. But I've always, I've always wanted to be in the alternative acupuncture, Chinese medicine world. As open as I would want to be. Like, there's some that are, they call them the purists. They're like, no, you can never do a medication or never do any type of Western medicine type of therapy. But I would like to just see where everybody could come together and try to give an angle. That's what I like.

Dr. Amy (9:05)

Yeah, I, I totally agree. So I want you to first explain what traditional Chinese medicine is and then we'll kind of go into all the different modalities and therapies that are tied to that, whether it's herbs, acupuncture, etc, but let me start off by saying I don't think you know this about me, but in a former life, we'll say we. Way back in like 1996, a long time ago, I went to massage school. And of course in massage school you have the whole area of learning about chi and the meridians and that Eastern medicine tie in to any kind of body work that you're going to do. And then there was a subsect of my, my school that also did acupuncture if you wanted to go that route. But you, at least in the basis you had to learn about the different trigger points and meridians and the chi. Now that was so long ago, Chris, I, I forget it. So I know that there's a tie in, but I don't know everything. So that's why you're here.

Dr. Chris Motley (10:04)

I don't either. I think I come from the angle. And please, I do not want to be over talking for your audience because I don't want them to get like snooze alert from Motley. So but with, in Chinese medicine, I perceive it, I know we talk about chi, which they call as like a life force energy. Some of my mentors, they taught it by two directional energy. So in a nutshell, for people listening, that when you're growing, I compare it to embryology. And I love embryology, and I'm not trying to get too complicated. But as you grow in the womb, one thing that always intrigued me as an embryo, when you grow, basically you have electrical circuits that are basically running through your body and it's proven and literally the shape of your hands, the shape of your nose, the shape of your ears, all follow electrical patterns. They say in embryology that your cells literally will form your hands and your nose and your mouth, because those cells are following basically a map of electrical patterns. And they, that's how you form. And what they say is, as you unfold from that little bean in the womb, the little bean it unravels is that those electrical patterns, those grids of electrical lines running through your body. And in Chinese medicine, they didn't have this kind of verbiage. And I can't say I can speak for every Chinese medicine practitioner, but those electrical lines are running through your muscles and through your connective tissue, and they're running around your organs. And there's particular patterns, there's lines, and there's 12 patterns that run on each side basically. And those 12 little highways of energy are running. And you can't see it if you're not on life, you can't see it. But like I have a little Chinese medicine doll, but these little lines that run up and down the doll are these lines of electricity. And those lines of electricity while you're in the womb are meant to, to transfer electricity and energize organs, energize blood vessels, energize lymph nodes and there's quite a bit of research behind it of what happens and when Chinese medicine, it comes into play is that there are small areas on those little 12 meridians, those 12 highways of energy. If you have a roadblock, like a wreck, literally on the highway, anything that's behind the wreck gets backed up. Anything below the wreck gets really depleted. There's no TR traffic below the wreck. So it's my job to find out where the electricity is blocked. Now, in no way, when I say electricity, right, Doc, is that I'm saying that if I uncover the electricity block, I'm only trying to get the electricity down to the next. The next organ, because it's traveling down the highway. That's all I'm trying to do. What I can do in Chinese medicine, one way is try to get an idea of if that point's blocked, those little highways. If there's a roadblock, I can tell you which organ's not going to function at 100%. That's what I can do. And then I can give you an idea of, like, let's say the gallbladder highway is blocked. I can tell you that you're probably aren't going to digest food very well. So Chinese medicine is very good at analyzing where the blocks in your electrical system, the Qi flow, is, which can tell me what the problem is. And that's. And I don't want to go overdrawn. That's what it is. You're trying to find the blocks. It tells you what's wrong with the organ. Then you can actually, as a practitioner, unblock with needles. That's what they do. They put the needle in the block, unravel. You know, it's in. In massage. You put your hands in the block, you uncover that fascia. You could put acupressure there. You could put a laser there. But the key is, is that if you get the electricity to flow, at least all of the highways are connecting end to end and all the organs are harmonious. One thing I love about it, though, Doc, is that whenever patients come to me, I tell them, if I can tell you which organ is injured or tired, I can literally give information possibly to your medical doctor to give them idea, maybe could we check into this? And I'm very surprised and enc encouraged that many of the docs I do know around here, they'll say, well, let's check this organ enzyme. Let's check the enzyme because Doc Motley said to do so. And that's where I'm coming from. I hope it's it's, it's investigation. Yes, you can treat, but I come from it in that angle. Yes.

Dr. Amy (13:59)

So how do we even know? I mean, and granted Chinese medicine predates anything in the Western medicine world. How did they figure out way back then that there were these energy pathways, these highways in our body? How do we know?

Dr. Chris Motley (14:14)

Well, one of the biggest ways, like they had this saying that one of the first person or people to actually find out what the meridian systems was doing was that one of the stories, whether it's true or not, was that they had a general in the field and the general had an injury in their leg, prior injury from a war wound. And the same general had gotten struck by an arrow, and that arrow tip got stuck in his bone, and they broke it off and they said that the metal piece was in the meridian line and the injury from prior healed up quick. It was the one that never basically healed up, but after the. The arrow had landed in the bone, the actual wound from prior had healed up. What they did find was that they started to identify that there are these small electrical pathways that could be basically cleared out if you use certain types of metal pieces to help open up the meridian. Now, that's the story I heard. I'm not saying it's true or not. One of the things I've always wondered too, is how would a person know when the chi is running through a particular point of arm or down the leg or through the arm. Now that is another story because there is so many different types of theories and thoughts about how people learned information about where the meridian systems lie. Now, I will say the origins are very, not, say, sketchy. There's just many different types of stories that come along with how it was developed. But even Japanese acupuncture and Chinese medicine, now in schools and universities, institutions, they literally have tons of those over in China, measure skin graphs. They measure the basic electrical patterns through small devices that can measure the polarity and static in the skin. And now they'll be able to map through the skin where these electrical static electrical pathways are running. And it literally is out there. So all your listeners out there, as boring as that may sound, I'm saying that one of the coolest things is that whenever we talk about your body carrying a lot of electrical energy, that means when people say, oh, we're created of energy, these academies and institutes are saying, yes, we are definitely created out of energy. One of the coolest research I found for those who are more allopathic, I get it, is that in Russia and in China, they would take, I don't like to say radioactive because I wouldn't want to take it, but they took radioactive dye and what they had found was they were trying to prove that whether they existed or not are meridians, these little lines of energy. And when Chinese medicine, when these practitioners, back a long time ago when they did autopsies, they would find that there are these small tubules, these small little areas along the fascia that were like small tubes. Now where do they run? And I don't want to get too over talking, but seriously, like, if you look at all the meridians on these little doc maps of the doll, most of the meridians run where the muscles meet. Where two muscle heads meet, like the bicep and the tricep, right where the TFL meets the hamstring, right where the fascia meet, where two large muscle groups meet, usually have a tubule, a tube that carries electricity and it gives energy to those two muscle heads. That's what they've shown. Now, researchers put radioactive dye through the tubes and they found out that that radioactive dye would move very slowly through the tube. And they were showing that light was emitted from the tubule as it was traveling through. So there was electrical patterns running through the tubes all along these patterns. And that's when Chinese medicine says every two hours out of every day, your electricity is concentrated in certain parts of the body along the highway. And so what they're saying, they showed that that small slow movement of radioactive dye was coinciding with the movement of qi that the Chinese medicine practitioners said that was happening all along. So they did autopsies thousands of years ago and found all these small electrical patterns that were running through the body from that autopsy. There's more basically research that they've done in different old texts. But I don't want to get over talking either. So doc, I don't want to overdo this because then I don't want people out there to be like, okay, enough with autopsies.

Dr. Amy (18:13)

Well, no, I just wanted you to make that point because people need to know that this isn't woo.

Dr. Chris Motley (18:17)

Yes, woo. At all.

Dr. Amy (18:19)

No, no. It's literally based in science. And correct me if I'm wrong, but all of the schools that you reference that are overseas, in China and Korea, they teach, even in medical schools, they bring in this component as part of the curriculum. It's not a separate, like new age center over here that's teaching about the meridians.

Dr. Chris Motley (18:41)

That is, it is totally true because there are so, so many devices. I want everybody to know this, there are so many devices that are FDA regulated that literally can measure points along these graphs and all along these little electrical pathways and that can measure the amount of voltage that comes off point and they can correlate the amount of electricity coming from a point and correlate to the health of the organ that's associated with it. And to me, it is not. Woo. I'm with you. I, I'm pretty much like a nerd at heart. I, I do not just take something in my heart of hearts, like, oh, it's just what it is. I'm like, no, I, I love to know if physiology, I love physiology. Like, I'm a structured guy. I love it. I love how a kidney affects your heart. I love the neurochemistry of it. But when they've done these, these research projects, you can tell, like they have measured so many things and proven so many things over and over. And so when anybody says, like, well, that's crazy that a kidney chi can go up to the heart, I'm like, embryology would prove that that exists and that's why it happens. So it is not. Woo. I just want everybody to know that there is so much science behind it. Honestly.

Dr. Amy (19:44)

Yeah. Now that's the point that I wanted to get. So we keep people's attention. If it doesn't. Woo. This can actually help you?

Dr. Chris Motley (19:50)

It can definitely, yes.

Dr. Amy (19:51)

Okay, so now where do we start? I mean, I think we just start with the thyroid. I've heard you talk about the different connections of the different organ systems to the thyroid. And we chat a little bit about your mom and how she's had that pendulum swing from graves to hashi hashis to graves. So what'd you do with mom? What systems did you check? What'd you find correlated with her?

Dr. Chris Motley (20:16)

The biggest thing was in a nutshell, so everybody, her thyroid, when it was so fatigued, mom had severe issues with, with the heart as well. So she had heart issues. Chinese medicine, when we're talking about thyroid, one of the biggest things we have to check out is something called the three gates. Now really, in a nutshell is I have to check out three energy centers. And I hope that doesn't sound too far fetched, but three energy centers, one of them being the throat and how well you can actually speak your voice. Now when we talk about what I did with my mom, I knew that from her thyroid. When she was younger, she had severe like throat issues, like strep, and she had mono issues. And this is how I go with western medicine. When she had this issue with her throat having the Hashimoto's, then go on to graves. She had severe gum disease. And when she was raised on a farm, she had Babesi because it's verified with her blood work. She's had strep. And when they did cultures, literally, she had pockets of infections come in and draining out of her gums. I've seen it. I was there with the doctors and they had it and they did cultures where she had strep. This though some of the doctors and I were talking, this probably was totally in her throat, congested. It was in her teeth. She had to get her, some of her teeth pulled. Most of all of them pulled. And this was all around her slim nose and her neck. And when they did any type of visualization, when they talk about lymph therapy or thermographies, when they do any type of CT scans, total infections through the gums and congestion around this area of the thyroid. Through Western medicine, when we have that, the one thing you'll find she had such high Epstein Barr viral markers.

Dr. Amy (21:48)

Just gonna say that there's that correlation.

Dr. Chris Motley (21:50)

With EBV and the thyroid BB and strep. And she had over 600. 630 was her number window. Over a hundred is really high. But she had 600 constant brain fog, congested ears, always having tinnitus and her ears were always, couldn't hear very well and she'd always have like low energy in the afternoon. So what did I do? When I did Chinese medicine practice, I was measuring a couple different meridians, but three of them, this is how it kicked, guys. The three meridians that really measure what goes through the throat is what we call the stomach meridian. That goes right down the cheeks, down the throat. The large intestine meridian that goes on the outside of the throat and what we call the conception vessel. Now what am I saying? All her meridians that had to do with her pooping, okay, her large intestine, they had to do with her nourishing her body through her stomach and had to do with her conception vessel, which means her protective mode, like curling in, they were all imbalanced from my assessment. Okay, but whenever they did thyroid check, it was low. T4, T3 screwed up. When they checked her stomach acid levels, gastric motility, all decreased. When they checked her digestive, her probiotics, her bad bacteria, what were they screwed up? See how it correlated? I was like, okay, yeah, it's correlating right now. So then I started to do what I started to work on the Epstein Barr virus in all the lymph nodes around her throat and around her thyroid. I started to work with herbs like neem. That's just like an ayurvedic herb. I used coptis, which was an antibacterial. I started using those herbals to start to flush those infections out of her throat. So then her numbers on her Epstein Barr virus started to go down, where it was getting down to the three hundreds. Then her strep numbers started to go down, and then her cognition started to return. So I didn't just use Chinese medicine, I was using western medicine, basically. Her weight increased, which was great. Her, like, her eyes started to get better. She started like, more aware. She started talking more literally. This is what the kicker was for me too. I had to put my mom in assisted living for a while because I was in a transition, my life, and I didn't want to do it. I took care of her. I watched her every single day when she had that. Initially, because I was moving, I had to move her closer to me because she lived with me for a long time. I had to move her back in. The sad thing was, when she was there, they would feed her such bad food. I'm just saying. And it was just so full of sugars and such. That one thing was her mentality was going down. This is why I'm so adamant about people who get dementia or Alzheimer's. If I left her there, she would have had full blown dementia. But knowing her levels and doctors who saw it, we started clean all the babesia and all that stuff out of her gums. Literally. Like, she's talking to me about when she was a kid. She's like, I had that one of the kids. She's talking more. But I want everybody out there to know. It's like that's how with Chinese medicine, when you come into my office, like if you came to my office and I'm gonna say, okay, what, what, what do you think is going on? I'm not trying to give a western diagnosis, necessarily diagnosis, But I will tell you if I suspect by finding if there's imbalances in the large intestine or the kidneys or something, if there's an infection stuck in those organs and that will cause blocks in the energy that's going up through, let's say the throat or down the midline. And then I know that that area that it's blocked from, that area is going to be totally sick. And you can do all the medicines in the world. I'm Telling you to, like, quote, clean the area up, but if you don't heal that organ that's blocked, you're not going to have a very good chance. That's my opinion, but that's where I'm at.

Dr. Amy (25:07)

This is fascinating. I love this. I love this. Okay, so your mom. Did she have to take methemazole to. To calm her? Okay, so you still brought in the medication?

Dr. Chris Motley (25:17)

Totally. And I always say that with methimazole. Like, I took. Took her medications, and her doctor was so gracious, I took them, and I said, doc, what would you want her to do? How many. How many milligrams? How many micrograms? And we did, like, different ranges. And so I said, well, is it okay if I add in this herbal? Because I believe there's strep and there's Epstein Barr in this area. Can we coincide that? Sure thing. Let's do it. So I just. I would just coordinate it with them, and then I would give certain types of magnesium and certain types of minerals to help her poop more. And I just started to make sure that her liver was really clean. So I'd put her on, like, different herbs for the liver. And. And what I did find was this, which was really cool. I know people say, well, a lot of medications have side effects, and I know they do. But what I did find was when I was really cleaning out the organs that could be affected by side effects, when I flushed them, she hardly had any side effects, like, ever. So I just kept her liver clean. I kept her colon clean. She doesn't have as many side effects. So if she has to be on it for the rest of her life, okay, like, that's what you have to do. She's good. Quality of life.

Dr. Amy (26:20)

Right? Right. Exactly. The struggle is real when it comes to losing weight. Listen, I know because I've been there. You're trying all the things. You're doing the diet, you're tracking your macros, you're getting to the gym, you're going to the Pilates, you're doing all the things. But it's not working. It's not working. And this is independent of a thyroid problem. Maybe you have a thyroid problem. Maybe you have low hormones, or maybe you don't, and you're just like, I just have a really crappy metabolism that I am putting on weight, or I can't lose weight no matter what I do. Then you need some help. But what you don't need is a stimulant fat burner of the old days where you Literally thought you were having a heart attack. You need something that is actually going to work to increase your metabolism without jacking up your heart rate. Enter Thyroid Fixer. Yes, I know it's called Thyroid Fixer, but I named it after myself and the brand because it's my baby, it's my child. It's a product that I have been studying for 15 years and using it on patients for 15 years before I brought it to you. Thyroid fixer contains T2. And what this does, I call it the forgotten thyroid hormone. No, there's no tests for T2, but your body does produce T2 in small amounts. T2 will increase your basal metabolic rate, literally the amount of fat that you're burning at rest. It's also browning white adipose tissue. So this is why you jump into cold plunges. Or maybe you're like, I don't want to jump in a cold plunge to brown your white adipose tissue. That helps with insulin resistance, it helps with metabolism, it helps with inflammation, helps with overall health.

Dr. Chris Motley (28:03)

Health.

Dr. Amy (28:03)

So that's a good thing as well. And here's the other thing. With T2, it's not going to affect your thyroid. So many of you know, if you take T3, if we give you T3, or if you abuse T3 when you're not supposed to, it will have a feedback loop, a negative feedback loop on your thyroid. And you're going to either look like you're hyperthyroid or you're going to shut down your own Thyroid Production. T2 doesn't do that. It's working at the cell level to just simply increase your metabolism. That's a win all the way around because now you're gonna burn fat, now you're gonna lose those extra LBs, and that's ultimately what we want. It also bonus, helps with ATP production at the mitochondrial level. This means steady energy through the day. No highs, no lows, no caffeinated red bull spikes. Just really nice, nice, steady energy through the day to keep you going. So you want to add in Thyroid Fixer and just literally watch your body change over the next couple months. Because, listen, I mean, it's. It's time. Well, it's time all year long. I mean, there's no good time of year to lose body fat. We want to be in shape. We want to look, feel, and perform our best. Add in Thyroid fixer and your body will. Will absolutely thank you. And then you'll come back and you'll thank me. Okay, so she had hyper. Would you take the same approach to someone that has hypothyroidism. So it's still the same meridians or is it different?

Dr. Chris Motley (29:33)

I would say the same approach. Because this is the cool thing is that whenever you look at the meridian lines like whether it's right down the throat because I always think stomach or gal. Large intestine around the thyroid, sometimes gallbladder, because it's right through the throat, it doesn't matter. I would clean those organs out because if you had to take a medication that allows the body to take the medication, do what it needs to do while you're cleaning out those organs, getting the stomach cleaned out, getting the colon and it gives the body the innate intelligence enough to take the medication, do what it needs to do. It just gives it more playroom in my opinion to do that. And I also think that with thyroid, you know, we're talking about goiters or any type of issues where it's over production. One of the things they teach us in Chinese medicine and alternative medicine world is that anytime that the thyroid gets injured around the throat and the tonsils are involved, I'm not just talking about the thyroid, but the tonsils around the thyroid there's infection. Is that you always have to tell of a person like my mom, her stomach reading right down the throat, that little chin energy channel was that she was probably force fed ideas, force fed programs, force fed things in her life and made to eat it. Does that make sense? Not chills physically, psychologically. Her parents force fed her something and she did not like it. My mom did not like it and her body was like, I am not only I'm mentally eating this stuff, this is how you're going to do da da da da da. And so she got to the point where she didn't want to eat that anymore psychologically. And what did her stomach meridian do? She wanted to throw it back up. I don't want this anymore. And so what did my mom do? This is a really good story. My mom would always. She was always told to shut up. I can't believe I'm telling everybody this. First time I do. You're the first one. My mom was always told to shut up by her parents and it makes breaks my heart. And so she couldn't speak and so she just kept it right there in her throat. And what did she do when she got out? Her and my dad always argued. My dad and mom always. My mom would yell right off the bat because she didn't have a voice. And so she had so much they call rebellious chi. That energy was Coming back up. And she had to throw it back up. But what happened? Her stomach got weak. She wasn't nourished by her marriage. She wasn't nourished by anything. What happens? The throat gets congested, it gets sick. It. It traps all this junk because that's where that block point is, right here. And people think that's crazy. And woo, woo. I'm like, no, it's not. And you know what else happened in 2017? Not making about me. I'm just about my mom. 2017, I had a ruptured ulcer in my stomach because my stomach mimicked the program my mom passed to me when she had me. So we know, like, this energy like these, it's not just neurological, which it is. There's neurology, there's biochemistry, but there's electrical patterns. And I, like, I call it electrical. It's electricity run through the body and there's stagnant areas. So knowing those relationships now, I have better grace for my mom's thyroid issues. Because I thought mom, when she wants to sort of say something and she wants to get rowdy and say something, I'm like, now your thyroid's off because you're raised in a way that hurts your heart. And it breaks my heart. But I also think it gives us more understanding. Like, as practitioners. I went down that road, doc, because it's just like you and I see practitioners all the. I mean, people all the time, and we know that there's an emotional content to it. Yeah.

Dr. Amy (32:41)

Oh, no, no, no. Thank you so much for sharing that story, because as you were telling it, I was picturing the multitude of listeners that are resonating with that right now. Literally just stop what they're doing and pause and listen to you tell that story. In their minds, they're going back and they're thinking about their childhood or they're thinking about that. That relationship they were in where they were silenced. And I can't tell you the amount of women because mainly I see women with. With thyroid conditions that. That will. Will express some kind of. Well, I feel like my throat is closing. I feel like there's something in it. And when we ultrasound, there's no nodule. There's no goiter. There's nothing in it.

Dr. Chris Motley (33:21)

It's.

Dr. Amy (33:21)

It's that connection, that emotional connection of. Of what they went through when they were silenced. And I think that plays a huge role.

Dr. Chris Motley (33:30)

I agree. Yeah. I think it's really. When people say, there's no nodule there, do you ever get this talk where they'll say, like, my feels on, my throat's closing in. And sometimes I've had some patients, they'll say, I actually feel like somebody's like holding my throat. Like you're not able to speak?

Dr. Amy (33:43)

Yes.

Dr. Chris Motley (33:44)

And then you go, what happened when you were a kid? Well, and I think it's like an analysis would say that the muscles got turned off. This is what they would say even in accu, like some of these institutes that research that when your brain thinks it, it shuts down the muscles because you're not able to speak. And what happens to the electrical patterns? They stagnate and the electricity can't move through. So you get a chakra around the throat that is slower moving. And so you get these patterns where it's like there is no vortex of energy coming out of your throat. And that affects the health of the thyroid because there's no blood flowing. If there's no electricity flowing, your thyroid's going to be deficient. So in my realm, you've got to help clean the blood flow and the electricity, but you got to get down to that trauma because if you feel like somebody's not letting you speak. I know the people out there, like, yeah, that's happened to me. I think it's really important.

Dr. Amy (34:29)

Oh, yeah, yeah. No huge correlation with a lot of people listening right now.

Dr. Chris Motley (34:33)

Now.

Dr. Amy (34:33)

So how do you know? Does someone have to come see you? You physically touch them? Do you test them? Can you do. Can you know things virtually? Like, how do you figure this out?

Dr. Chris Motley (34:45)

There's a different devices though, that we use in acupuncture training. They do teach us to help this. Oh, I don't want to get too like, woo woo on people because it's not, to me, it's scientific. But basically they'll teach you to do like different types of points. Okay, let's keep it general. They tell you to touch different points on the body with your hands and you can feel the blood flow, the pulse points. You can feel the amount of blood flowing through, like an area like on the wrist. That's how some are just experts at it. But what they tell you is just being sensitive and understanding how the blood flows, the strength of the pulse, the tightness of the pulse. They call it the tightness and the frequency of the pulse of your heart rate can tell you tons about organs just from doing a pulse point. In my realm, how do I do it? Along the meridian pathways, there's all these small points. Like, they're called acupuncture points because they're Points along the meridian pathway. If you're sensitive enough, and I know you are, too, Doc, if somebody walks in the room and they come in there and you can tell that there is something sick or hurt about a person, it's only because the electrical field around their body interacts with yours. Yes. And it basically affects the sensors in your skin. That's what. If you want to get down to science about it, this is truly. I train myself. You have two. When I touch a point on the meridian system, my skin texture can feel the difference in that area of the skin because it's going to be different texture. It's going to be a little more static. It's going to be red, it's going to be hot. You know when you put your hand around somebody's throat and you feel it, you're like, oh, yeah, right there. I can feel something different. Why? It's because the heat's different. The heat, the pressure in the blood vessels, that's all where we found that difference. And so the electrical patterns change around the point. And I've just trained my skin to. When I put my hand on it, I can feel the difference. So when that occurs, that's when I start to use my modalities. Okay, I'll put pressure on there. I'll use a laser on there. And then I relate the point that I just found to an organ that it's related to. When we're in our training and I start using herbals and I start using different therapies to unlock the organ. And then what will happen is you go back to the point and there'll be no change in the texture of the skin. It'll be smooth, just like a baby's bottom. It'll be nice and cool. It will not be congested. But that's the reason that people out there, I know people listening right now, literally can go around somebody. If you're super aware of people, you're in that room of people, you walk up to somebody and go, man, something's gone with that guy's heart. Something's going on with that guy's. Like, I can feel it. Why? Because you can feel their electrical patterns. And that's. People do it. I mean, that's how I. But when I check it, that's how I operate.

Dr. Amy (37:16)

Okay, so you can. Can you do this telehealth? Do you. Do you do telehealth, or is it all in person?

Dr. Chris Motley (37:21)

I do telehealth, but telehealth is a different way. And I want to just do one More thing, guys, before I. There are devices I use. They're called EAV machines. And I will say this. There are devices that my friend, good friend, Dr. Adrian Larson created it. One's called Meridia Tech. And I say this lovingly to Adrian. If he hears this, he's a complete nerd. Like I am complete nerd. And we're in school together. And he created a device that has an electrode on the tip and it can be put on the point and it can tell you the amount of impedance, the amount of blockage in the meridian. It's literally on a computer graph and can tell you how well the energy is flowing through the area. So you have those two. So I can check with an actual computer and check where places are blocked. So that's another way. And then you can send electricity into the point with the same machine and unblock it. So that's the whole western side of it if you want to do it. Okay, so I want everybody to know that when I do tele, I'll have you send a picture of your tongue, your hands, your eye, facial structure. And what I do is when you give me your health history and tell me like, oh yeah, thyroid and such as people think it's like, like you're going to be like a palm. You're like, no, it's called Chinese medicine palmistry. And it's also called tongue analysis. Over the years, though, I have to say I'm pretty decent at reading facial structure. I'm good at reading tongue. Every part of your body is a micro map of what's going on internally. And so when they come in and they tell me this is the other kick, so people listening, I can look at some of the creases, the lines, the shape of the lines on your hand and on your face and around your eyes, I can tell on your tongue, the swelling, which organs have been chronically sick. Then I'll tell you that I'm not. Guys, I'm not patting myself back. You know me, doc, I'm. I'm not bragging. This is not, this is just what we do. And then whenever I get the picture, I'll go, okay, I ask questions. But then I'll say, these are my three main questions. How well do you poop? What's your poop pattern? What's your sleep pattern? Because it tells me which organ by your sleep circadian rhythm and what's your energy throughout the day? Because the lower heighten of energy throughout the day tells me which organ in Chinese medicine clock theory is the most prevalent. So then I take those three questions. Poop, sleep, energy, and then I'll get a lab. I'll give me your labs. I want to hear your labs. Virtually. Give me your labs. I'll look at those, and I'll look at your pulse pattern. I'm like, I can tell you which organ is probably the weakest right now from that. And I'm not. You do it too, doc. I say, out of 10 people, I get about seven, eight decently going pretty well, only because their body told a really cool story. And that's how I do virtuals. I try to keep it in line with people out there that are doubters, that I want them to know that I'm. I'm just a guy that's looking at maps.

Dr. Amy (39:45)

That's a great way to say it. Yeah.

Dr. Chris Motley (39:47)

Just look at maps.

Dr. Amy (39:48)

Yeah, yeah. No, this is awesome because, like. Like I said, I'm a little bit selfish. I'm thinking for myself. So I'd love to unpack this. And obviously we can unpack it in an actual real virtual consultation. Then I'll see you.

Dr. Chris Motley (39:59)

Yeah.

Dr. Amy (39:59)

One thing I. Again, I don't think that I told you in the last couple months is that I was diagnosed with uterine cancer. I was literally diagnosed two days before we said that for our interview at hos. Really? Yeah. Yeah. So diagnosed with uterine cancer kind of went through a couple months of like, oh, what do I do? Exploring different alternative therapies. Do I do a surgery? Do I not? Well, it came down to, in a nutshell, I could get a hysterectomy, which I really battled in my mind. I didn't want to do it. Didn't want to do it. I could get a hysterectomy to take the container that was containing the cancer out, or I could leave it in and try all of these additional therapies. And it really came down to a dear friend of mine saying, listen, if. If you don't take the container out, and right now it's in the uterus, hasn't spread the ovaries, hasn't spread the lymph nodes. It's in a container. If you don't take that out and it spreads, how will you feel? And it was like, you know, getting punched in the face. So I'm like, oh, gosh. Good point. All right, it's coming out. So, long story short, they took everything out. I'm about. I'm like 5 weeks post op now, totally healed. But even before. Okay, so even before that, I started getting back Pain and it's only on one side and it's kind of like zinging down my butt, down my leg. And I'm thinking, oh gosh, you have a disc issue on top of everything. Is that the next thing I have to deal with is a disc issue after cancer. But now that you're talking, I'm kind of thinking, I'm like, like, is there a connection? Is there a connection?

Dr. Chris Motley (41:32)

I'm not live right now. Yeah, I want the people out there. I'm not trying to act cocky. It's in my opinion, like for everybody listen. But like on the. If you guys can see in Chinese medicine doll, right on the bottom of the sacrum, right on the si joints, if you go about mid. Way down your sacrum, the edges of the sacrum, that's the. Called the associated points. And in Chinese medicine, if you wrap a line, if you did a. A circumferential line. That's not even a word. I, I made it up. Circumference of a line that goes all the way around, it will end up near the ovaries and the uterus. So they say that this associated line right here, you'll always have. Because it's electrical. It's an electrical connection also neurological to the uterus, ovary, cervix, and they're feeding into the spine right near the tailbone. And so whenever you have that, if it's on the left side or if it was on the left side, I would normally associate that with the right brain. So that would be more mother. So that we'd be more. DNA wise would be more for your mother who could have had some issues with her uterus or something. Possibly it was on the right side, more towards the dad. The left brain. So then you would. Then I would always suspect that that low back pain would come because there's an emotional program running in that part of the brain associated with one side of your family. And you go, okay, well maybe it was from. If it's on. From my dad's side is on, you know, like. Or such. Then you would look back in his history and you would say, well, did anybody have any type of reproductive issues?

Dr. Amy (42:50)

Yeah, his mother had uterine cancer completely.

Dr. Chris Motley (42:54)

And that's what happens now with her uterine cancer. It means that the uterus possibly could have grown to an extent where more. So this is. Now, this is not saying Western. So guys, I don't want you guys thinking I'm making a diagnosis or anything, but with the proliferation, they say that the site like the brain Is signaling to the uterus. There's a connection there. But if the cancer cells proliferate, There could be an overgrowth in the uterus, which means there could have been, like, the organ could have felt threatened. Like, I need to reproduce. Because women and men, they say, I need to reproduce. I need to survive. So if there was an abuse, a sexual abuse, or a tendency of something not being able to reproduce in a family line, that could have been a case that could have been passed. I'm not sure. But that's the first thing I would look at is like, grandparent, great grandparent. And you have. That's why you get the low back pain. It's like, why do you have low back pain? It's. It's programmed. Yeah.

Dr. Amy (43:42)

Okay, so then. And let's say that is the case. What would I do to unblock that? You know, I can't go back in time. Can't. Can't do anything with Graham. She's passed.

Dr. Chris Motley (43:52)

Yeah.

Dr. Amy (43:52)

What would I do to unblock that?

Dr. Chris Motley (43:54)

The cool thing is, is that if, like, some people say, like, you know, if you went to a classical Chinese practitioner, In my opinion, they'd probably tell you, like, if you just treat the acupuncture points along the tailbone and around the cervix and uterus, all it's trying to do is to create the connection between, like, your higher centers, like your brain, your mind. Mind down to that area so that there's a connectivity to read. What's the information going on? Like, what is the emotional program running in the uterus? Now, please don't think I'm trying to get all emotion and psychological. But really, truly, in my heart of hearts is when you start to nourish the area, they always tell it nourish. So you would do the acupuncture around the tailbone to get the electrical flow and the qi and the blood flow to that area. You take herbs to nourish it, to feel comfort, truly, and to make your higher. Your brain and your higher mind aware of what was going on. So. So you want your brain to recognize what was going on with grammy's DNA line. That's what you want to do. Like to tell you that you're not stuck in her DNA. Like, you're not back in her DNA line. So herbs, acupuncture, you can do acupressure. And then I do this. I'll do like net. Like neuro emotional techniques. I usually do different therapies on points to where I will put acupuncture. Acupressure on points. And we go through certain levels of the spine and do little adjustments and little percussion along the spine to help your brain be aware of the emotional tie to it. It. I'm telling you, it works really, really well. And I. I'm not patting myself on the back. I'm telling you, like, people will come to me, doc, and they'll. And after you do something, I'll go, okay, well, this area of your back, you're having a stiff back in the T18, because there's got to be some anger probably in your dad's side because it's on this side of your body. And then they're like, oh, no, no, I don't have any. No, no, that's okay. Then they come back and they go, I had a dream that I was super pissed off at my dad. And I'm like, like, we'll take it. But that's how I do it. I mean, literally, the basics. But really, it's all about you opening up. And, like, you don't have to remember anything about Grammy. No, not at all. I'm saying. But let your brain let go of that psychological pattern.

Dr. Amy (45:50)

Whoa.

Dr. Chris Motley (45:51)

I know. It's a lot. It's like. But that's how. Yeah, yeah, it's good stuff, you know?

Dr. Amy (45:55)

No, but we all know, like, deep down, anybody listening to this who even just slightly thinks, like, I don't know, maybe a little bit too woo for me.

Dr. Chris Motley (46:02)

A little woo woo.

Dr. Amy (46:03)

No, just. Let's bring it back to common sense, right? There is. There is energy. We can't. We can't deny that because when we talk about, oh, I got a bad vibe from that person, you don't want to be around a certain person because they throw off bad energy. That's not just. That's not a saying. That's real. They literally are giving off energy. So if a. If a person can give off good or bad energy, what's going on inside? Of course we have those energy systems. Systems going through us and affecting all the organs, all the pathways, all the joints, everything, Everything.

Dr. Chris Motley (46:40)

And have you ever had this? I want people. You know what people told me before they. I had a lady tell me, and she saw me walk. She knows my dad, and I don't really hang around my dad that much because I'm out of the house. But she says, you know what? You walk just like your dad. And I go, how do I walk just like my dad? Do I sit there and study how my dad walks? No, My body, physiologically, from my DNA maps, Like my dad and I walk like my dad. And you're right. How do you not know that your organs mirror what your parents do? You can't take a picture and look inside of it. But that's what happens. You. And this is a kicker. Like, you know when they talk about certain aspects of literally like when they talk about laws of attraction, but they do say is like the way your body is geared internally in Chinese medicine, that the biochemistry you're normally producing, because you mimic your parents, your grandparents, you will attract the same type of, of conditions or attract the same type of lifestyle they have. So you will always be walking in their particular patterns. So your organs have a very high tendency to emit the same type of problem. So you have to learn yourself to break the pattern. To me, that's not weird. I'm like, no, it's like I literally hear myself sometimes laugh doc. And I'll go, that just sounded just like my dad. Like, literally like I do this little high laugh and I'm like, that's my dad bad. And I don't even have like it happens. It's just the way bodies change it. That's my opinion though.

Dr. Amy (48:01)

Well, and we know this from adopted kids too, that when let's say they're reunited with their biological parents, that there's so many similarities that they weren't even exposed to in their environment but from a biological standpoint made an imprint on their DNA. And they're similar, they do these things in the same way, but they didn't grow up with that person. So there's, there's obviously a connection.

Dr. Chris Motley (48:27)

You know, I do like to read books and you, I know you do too. It's like when we talk about methylation and liver methylation, but I like to talk about DNA sequences and genetic codes. I read some. That's fun. But it is to me, if we get down to the little nitty gritty parts of it, they say certain parts of your DNA are like little crystalline formations and they're all fiber optics and they just take information that came from you, from your parents and it's just stored information. The only way it's going to express is it had an emotional or a stress trigger to make it actually come to the surface. And when you think about it that way, it's not too far fetched to think that like your, your hip had sciatica because you could go to the doctor and get it adjusted by a chiropractor, go to physical therapist, go do all these things and you go, it's better. And hopefully your body would recognize that that DNA connection's there, because it could keep returning back over and over again. Yeah.

Dr. Amy (49:16)

Yeah. It's like retraining the body to know that this is how it should be, not the opposite way where there's pain.

Dr. Chris Motley (49:21)

Pain, yeah. Yeah. It's totally. This is such a good combo. This is like. I love having combos with you because I know. I know people out there be like, I don't know about him, but I'm also like, it's just food for thought, really. Truly food for thought. Especially when thyroid comes into play. I'm a thin guy, and my mom had hyper. Right, right, right. And whenever I get checked, I make sure that I am. I push myself just like my mom. But I know that my tendency. So I don't want to go into Graves or Hashim. So I had to consistently take certain B vitamins and certain types of minerals to continuously feed the thyroid, because if I didn't, I would go have a tendency. I don't want to go in that way. But I burn fat just like my mom did. And so that's the physiology part of it. I'm like, no, I have a tendency to be like my mom. So I had to be very careful.

Dr. Amy (50:06)

Okay, so flipping it back to the thyroid, once you. First question is, are there certain organs that always tie back to the thyroid? Like, I think liver because of the T4 to T3 conversion that happens in the liver. Are there organs that tie back to the thyroid? And question number two. Are there standard herbs that could help someone with hypothyroidism that maybe. Okay. We had them on medication. They're doing okay, but they're kind of hitting this block. I'm thinking of patients of mine that. Let's say we have them on a nice blend of T4, T3. We're trying to titrate up their T3. We see it in their labs. They need more.

Dr. Chris Motley (50:47)

More.

Dr. Amy (50:47)

We know it in their symptoms. They need more. That's the one thing missing from fueling all of their cells. But every time they try to increase their T3, they almost go a little bit hyper. They get anxious, they get jittery. They get this, like, icky, sweaty, insomnia, anxiety state that just. It's almost like they keep hitting their head on the ceiling. So I know that that's two very complex questions. So pick whichever one you want to.

Dr. Chris Motley (51:10)

No, no. Okay, I. I will say. And I. I'm with you. I just don't want the listeners to like, because I'll start rambling And I don't want to go off track. Tract. I will say you had a really good point, even when you use yourself. An example, when you said you had the uterum issue, they call it. This is my opinion, as I In practice. But the thyroid, in my opinion is. They call it. There's three gates, the triple gate. You said it perfectly. The fascial bag, the fascial sac, where a lot of your reproductive organs fit in and they're very low. And then you have. That's around your kidneys and your adrenals right in the middle. And then you have up there in your pericardium, this area up here in the chest. Chest. You have fascia and connective tissue that wrap around these organs. And they say in physiology, the contraction and the expansion of that connective tissue of the sac around these organs is. Creates electricity and they communicate. The electricity is flowing through each gate. And that's what Chinese medicine says. The reproductive. The ovaries producing all your sex hormones, your adrenals and your kidneys creating adrenaline, cortisol. And then you have this whole area of the heart up here, this heart. The heat. Heat is creating energy throughout the body. Okay, so those are the three gates. The thyroid is connected to all three of those. So when you say organs, I personally always say this. Yes, it could be the liver, but I check liver, of course, but I always check heart and upper lymph nodes around the heart because infections around the heart and the lymph nodes, like strep, staph, any of those will go to the thyroid.

Dr. Amy (52:37)

Okay.

Dr. Chris Motley (52:38)

Kidney, adrenal, fatigue, reproductive. Of course, if you have any type of ovary issue and it is depleted, like you've had period and cramps and you've had those when you're a kid, your thyroid will have to produce more thyroid hormone because your ovaries can't produce enough because they produce adrenaline too. If you can't produce enough adrenaline, your thyroid will try to kick in harder. So when you say which organs, I always check heart, adrenal, kidneys and ovaries or testes. Those are my three. And usually you'll find one of those that's always depleted and on their blood work you'll find it most.

Dr. Amy (53:09)

Okay, that's it. That was going to be. My next question is, will we see it on blood as well? Yeah, normally.

Dr. Chris Motley (53:14)

But the cool thing is this, like, see and get. Now I'm getting too nerdy about this. Like, you won't see it all the time, doc, like, but this is the Thing when you test the points, this is the cool thing. You're trying to cut it off at the pass. Usually you'll see where they feel unstable, like they have cramps. Like, if somebody says, I have cramps, like when I was a kid, I had cramps, and they go, oh, but my. My. My hormone levels are okay, but they're a little bit higher, a little bit low. And. And all the little points I told you about, feeling the points around the hips and stuff, you're like, these are off. No, there's infection. But your body is so good at adapting. I want everybody to know that that's what. But your body adapts so well, and it'll try to hide or cover the problem until it's time. It's too late. So you have to find it before. Usually, I'm telling you, whenever you have, like, a thyroid issue, I'm gonna tell you. You'll find albumin and globulin level issues with kidneys. Usually off. Yes. T4, T3. And then you'll find, like, usually progesterone levels and testosterone are a little bit off.

Dr. Amy (54:05)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No doubt, no doubt.

Dr. Chris Motley (54:07)

And it's cool. This is a good combo.

Dr. Amy (54:09)

I love it. No, I love it. Okay, now on to like. Like, the. The standard herbs are there. I don't want to say run of the mill, but standard protocols that, let's say every thyroid patient that you see gets put on.

Dr. Chris Motley (54:22)

Yes. Well, I'll say herbs, but I'll say like, I know you know cuf functional medicine. So, you know, like the minerals and vitamins that you probably naturally mean used. But when it comes to thyroid, anything that would produce more fire energy. So we call it fire. More metabolism. My favorite are usually going to be something like red sage. So I want you guys write this down. Down. Dan Shen. Dan Shen is red sage. D A N S H E N. And it's meant to help with the increase of the pliability and the strength of the heart, but increases the heart chi, the heat, the fire. So Dan Shen's really good, and it'll help the thyroid. Next is like, you always want to help the kidneys. The kidneys always help the thyroid too. And so I always go with Uva Ursi. So danshin uva, like uva and Ursi. And you guys know that's for kidney infection. That will help the thyroid attack a ton. My third, I would say, like, overall, when it comes to, like, testes, ovaries, like, when it comes there, you just have, like. These will help makuna which is velvet bean. M U C like mucuna, matata, makuna, hakuna makuna. So you got uber Ursi Makuna. And with the heart. Danchan. Those are three that I found that really helps with the thyroid. That's just an example. Okay. I like it. Yeah. You take those with your thyroid hormones. You gotta ask your doctor. I totally get that. That if you're also. You always do. Schisandra Chisandra Berry will help clean out the liver to help with the T3, T4. But you put one of those, not all of them, with that, you're going to notice that your medication will work a lot better. That's my opinion.

Dr. Amy (55:41)

Interesting. Okay. And that's something that people can do. Okay. Yeah. We have to give the. The disclaimer. Yeah. Talk to your doctor.

Dr. Chris Motley (55:47)

Blah, blah, Talk to your doctor. Yeah.

Dr. Amy (55:48)

But you know, I mean, they'll probably.

Dr. Chris Motley (55:50)

Say that you're crazy.

Dr. Amy (55:51)

Yeah. They're going to tell you not to take it, that you're crazy anyway. So just go ahead and do it. And then you might notice a decrease in your need for thyroid medication. Like your dose drops a little bit.

Dr. Chris Motley (56:00)

Bit. Yeah. And. And you'll see that most people like when they come in. And again, I'm not saying don't do, but they'll literally come in and doc, they'll say, you know, I don't feel like I needed to take it. I had pretty good energy. I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, no, don't do that. You just space your thought. Your, your herbs out. You. You do them every other day.

Dr. Amy (56:16)

Yeah.

Dr. Chris Motley (56:17)

And keep it. But it just makes it more effective. Yeah.

Dr. Amy (56:19)

See, and this, this is what I love about you, is that you blend, you just blend that Western philosophy, the Western treatment protocol with the Eastern with the Chinese medicine. So I just, I love that.

Dr. Chris Motley (56:31)

I love that.

Dr. Amy (56:32)

Dr. Chris, I could talk to you forever, but we're out of time. So I think I have to just bring you back on and just continue this conversation.

Dr. Chris Motley (56:39)

We can. Or let's. Let's set up a time. You and I just message me, I'll set up and do a virtual with you and I'll give you my ideas and maybe you could. I mean, I'm thankful. I love. Because you got a great rock and roll podcast, but also like, maybe we could, you know, you do a little bit of work with me and then. And I'm not trying to get any business I. Or anything, guys, I don't. Yeah, I'm already busy enough. I'm just saying. Dr. Amy and I are like friends, like kindred spirit. I just want to help. But truly. Yes. To me it's like when we go through down these routes. I am so glad I could help in any way. But yeah, that's just. This has been so fun.

Dr. Amy (57:09)

No, I think we should do that. So I would love to. Yeah. Set up a consult with you and then let's record the consult.

Dr. Chris Motley (57:16)

Yeah.

Dr. Amy (57:16)

And that we will actually air on the podcast so people can actually hear what it's like and what you find with me.

Dr. Chris Motley (57:22)

Oh, it'd be perfect. So then I can get. Send you. I'll send you like okay, remind me like seriously this week I'll send you like just a cool little favor. You take a little pictures and then write on some things and we can go over it. So it'll be. It'll be great. It'll be fun. Oh, I love it.

Dr. Amy (57:35)

Thank you. This, that wasn't even planned. We just decided that right now.

Dr. Chris Motley (57:39)

It's gonna be great. It's gonna be fun.

Dr. Amy (57:40)

Well, Dr. Chris, can you tell people where they can find you? And then of course we'll put all that in the show notes as well.

Dr. Chris Motley (57:45)

Appreciate it. Okay, guys, Dr. Motley at. Dr. Motley spelled out D O C T O R Motley Instagram, Facebook website site. And that's where you find me. And we, we do some virtual. Would do virtuals. I still see people in the office. I just had to cut that part off because I had a full in person practice. But thankfully like I try to do. I need to do more on Instagram but you know, it is. You're an office and you're checking people. I don't, I don't have as much time like I need to, but that's where you can find me. I appreciate it.

Dr. Amy (58:09)

I get it. And your podcast.

Dr. Chris Motley (58:10)

Podcast is the ancient health podcast. We talk about Ancient health. I want you guys to know it's not like just I do like talk about hers, but it's just like with Dr. Amy Has. I do talk about medications and I don't try to bash them. I just like how I can. Can you take everything and correlate it? How can everything work together?

Dr. Amy (58:23)

Work together. Exactly. Well, thank you, Dr. Chris. We'll definitely have you back on too.

Dr. Chris Motley (58:28)

Thank you doctor.

Dr. Amy (58:29)

But we're going to do it a.

Dr. Chris Motley (58:31)

Thanks everybody. Appreciate it.

Dr. Amy (58:32)

Thanks for listening. The information shared on the Thyroid Fixer podcast is intended solely for informational and educational purposes. It is not a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment.

Dr. Chris Motley (58:47)

Treatment.

Dr. Amy (58:47)

Always consult with your physician or other qualified healthcare provider with any questions you may have regarding a medical condition treatment or before making changes to your healthcare regimen, including medications, supplements or other therapies. Use of the information provided in this podcast does not establish a doctor, patient or client provide a relationship between you and the host or between you and any other healthcare professionals featured on the show. Any medical opinions or statements made by guests are their own and and do not necessarily reflect those of the host or affiliated parties. Statements regarding dietary supplements or health related products mentioned in this podcast have not been evaluated by the fda. These products are not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease. Some episodes of the Thyroid Fixer podcast may include sponsorships or affiliate links. The host may receive compensation for discussing or promoting certain products or services. Any such sponsorships or affiliations will be clearly disclosed closed during the episode. All opinions expressed are those of the hosts or guests and do not necessarily reflect the views of any sponsors. The inclusion of a product or service does not imply endorsement by any healthcare professional featured on this podcast.