B (7:42)

I am so excited, excited to dive into this conversation with you, Amy.

A (7:46)

I know this has been a long time in the making. So here we are finally discussing everything. Cancer. Yay. What a great topic. But yet it's such an important topic.

B (7:56)

So exciting. One of those lovely things. So I want to talk about what you went through, specifically your diagnosis. And I also want you to share because of what you do, being a doctor, being the thyroid fixer, how did that feel, getting your own diagnosis?

A (8:13)

Oh, that's a great question, Jen. Great question. So, you know, I think being in the functional medicine world, being a health practitioner, we are naturally expected to, to not get sick. You know, we're, we're expected to have this, this top level of, of health where nothing, it's like we have a suit of armor. You know, nothing is going to touch us. That's so far from the truth, I mean, we're just as vulnerable as the next person. You know, we learn how to optimize ourselves, we learn how to biohack. We learn how to keep our health top notch as best as we can. But we're also all human beings. And when I first got the diagnosis, I actually, it. It's funny because I never had the thought that, oh, this is so embarrassing. I can't let people know because then they'll think badly of me, and they'll think that I don't know what I'm doing because I got cancer. Like, I never had that thought in my mind. But what really surprised me when I went public with my diagnosis and the whole journey is how many people came out, were like, thank you so much for sharing. You were so vulnerable. Not many people would do that. Thank you so much. And I'm like, you're welcome. Of course I would share. Like, who in their right minds thinks that they are so lofty and so special that cancer can't touch them? I don't care if you're Rian Johnson, Dave Asprey, Ben Green. I don't care who the hell you are in this space. You are vulnerable just like the rest of us. So to answer your question, there really was never that. That font in my mind of, like, wow, I can't share this because I'm the thyroid fixer. I'm just another human.

B (9:59)

Right. I'm so glad you said that. Amen. When I was diagnosed and I was in the health and fitness world, and I would have people say to me, well, if you can get cancer, what's the point? What's the point? What's the point of being healthy? I'm like, oh, my gosh, there's so much more to it than that.

A (10:15)

Yeah.

B (10:16)

I mean, that's a lot to unpack. So. But, Yeah, I agree 100%. So. So let's talk about your diagnosis.

A (10:22)

Yeah, okay. Well, then we have to talk about yours, so we will. No, I'm talking about yours. All right, so I'll go first. My diagnosis of uterine cancer came last April. April 2025. And basically, I had been doing something called the WY Protocol, or rhythmic dosing with hormones. When you're doing that kind of rhythmic dosing. And quite honestly, I mean, even in the clinic, we really don't use rhythmic dosing much, because how many women actually say, hey, I really want to have a period till I'm 80? Like, that's not usually a choice that we see. But I'm an experimenter. I want to try things so that if there is this ginormous positive result, I can go back and say, wow, this really worked. Why don't we try this out now? I had heard from a colleague of mine who had Ms. That she started rhythmic dosing, and literally the lesions of. On her brain and spinal cord MRIs went away. Like, her Ms. Pretty much went into remission. Now, can we say 100% that it was the rhythmic dosing? Don't know. But she. She told me that story, and I'm like, wow, that's really cool. All right, I'm just going to give this a try. So I started on rhythmic dosing, which for the listeners, it means that you're cycling your estrogen and your progesterone in a way that induces a bleed. So this is why, like I said, like, yes, we can make you have a period until you're 80 years old. I mean, it literally induces a bleed. So I'm like, okay, that's fine. Periods never bothered me. Cycles never bothered me. I was never that girl. That was like, oh, my God, it's that time of the month again. Like, it was easy. It was fine. Well, I start this protocol, and I'm not pleading. I'm. I'm not cycling at all. I'm not. Nothing's happening. Okay, well, give it a little more time. Adjust the dose. Adjust the dose. Nothing's happening. So then finally, the woman I was working with to do the dosing, it's a whole thing. I mean, you need to look at this calendar every day because there's no way you remember your doses. It's very hard. So I reached out to her and I said, you know, I'm not. I'm not bleeding sick. That's weird. I'm pretty sure she actually reached out to T.S. wiley herself of the Wiley Protocol. And even GS was like, I'm not quite sure what's happening here. Why don't you have her go get a vaginal ultrasound? So I went to go get a vaginal ultrasound, check that uterine lining. Because even on static dosing, even on. On the same dose every single day of estrogen and progesterone, a woman can have breakthrough bleeding. And immediately we go, you know, let's check that uterine lining. Let's make sure that it didn't grow thicker and thicker and thicker, because that can be problematic. Check the lining. Not a big deal. Didn't really grow that much. Had it again. Done the ultrasound six months later. No change. No. No thickening of the uterine lining whatsoever. Okay, well, nothing to worry about. Then it's like, well, you know, why don't you get a. Why don't you get a biopsy? Let's just get that biopsy done of the uterine lining and let's just see. Well, the biopsy came back with something called atypical complex hyperplasia. And for the listeners, what that means is that you have these atypical cells that have about a 30 to 40% chance of turning into cancer. So my oncologist, my gynecological oncologist calls me and tells me I have these atypical cells. I go in to see him, he says, well, I think you need a hysterectomy. And I said, wait, so you're going to remove all of my reproductive organs? Because I have a 30 to 40% chance. We're not talking cancer yet. I have a chance of getting cancer. To me, I saw that I had a 60 to 70% chance that I wouldn't. Like I went on that side of the fence and went with a positive. Now, okay, I was wrong. But I do not regret whatsoever, Not a single day. I do not regret refusing the hysterectomy at that period of time, because I do believe the doctors like to remove stuff out of our bodies willy nilly, pretty much. You know, like, oh, there's something wrong with it. Let's just take it out. Well, no. Well, let's try to fix it first and then we can determine if it needs to be removed. A couple months go by. Well, first let me back up. I make a deal with them. And I said, all right, I'm keeping my uterus, but I will come in every three months for a biopsy. They were shocked. They're like, what? No, it doesn't really hurt. It's not that I'll do this. It means keeping my reproductive organs.

B (14:50)

Yes.

A (14:51)

How did you.

B (14:51)

Could I just. How did your uterine biopsy not hurt?

A (14:55)

It really didn't. Girl, I don't know mine, it's just like, so bad.

B (14:58)

I thought it was like the. It was awful. It was terrible.

A (15:04)

You know what? I guess surgery versus a little, like, poke. I don't know.

B (15:09)

Okay. Okay, good.

A (15:12)

I don't know. I just put in my mind of like, it's temporary. It's a couple seconds, you know, I'll do it, whatever, do what I have to do. So did the biopsies and then, you know, atypical cells. Atypical, Atypical. And then cancer. So in April of this year, I get the call after my biopsy. And then it's like, yep, it's turned now you have cancer. It's like, okay. So I remember saying to the nurse, I'm like, so that means I have to get the hysterectomy then, right? She's like, yes, you do. Like, okay, thank you. Meanwhile, I was at a show. Like, I was speaking that weekend down in Austin. I. I just checked into my hotel. I was just getting ready to meet my team to set up the booth that we were having at the show. And it's like, I don't have time to deal with this right now. I'm just going to put it on the back burner. So put it on the back burner. And really, I mean, for a couple of months, I went down all the rabbit holes. That's where you and I were connected. I looked into hbot. I looked into alternative therapies, chlorine dioxide, nicotine, fasting, keto, eating almond seeds or apricot seeds. Everything, everything in the cancer world. I explore parasites, the whole deal. And. And really had a lot right in front of me of many alternative therapies that I could do. And the question came down to. And a friend of mine said this to me. She said, right now you have the cancer that is contained. It's in a container called your uterus. Right now, we don't think that it spread to your ovaries or your lymph nodes. We don't know for sure. But right now, let's say it's in a container and you don't get that container out, you decide to do all these maybe different therapies and it spreads, and it spreads to your ovaries. And now you are looking at ovarian cancer, which is a whole different animal and an entirely different treatment story, how you feel. And that's how she put it. And literally, it sounds so simple, doesn't it, J? It sounds so simple. I mean, people out there listening are going, duh. What? Why wouldn't you think of that? It's when a friend tells it to you in a specific way that it makes you stop and it gives you.

B (17:29)

The chills and you're like, oh, okay, yeah, okay, yeah. And. But you know what? I think anybody like us that are in the health and fitness world and longevity, and we're trying all the things, and we want to avoid medicines as much as possible. We do go down that rabbit hole.

A (17:48)

Yeah.

B (17:48)

And I remember, like, okay, what else could I do? And I had some people come to me as well, and Say, okay, but listen, here's what could happen. And I'm like, ah, but one thing I do love that you said and what you did because you had some time. And I think so many people, they get diagnosed, they're so consumed with fear, and they react out of fear, and they're making these quick decisions that they're going back on and going, gosh, should I have done that? Wait, did I want to do that? And nine times out of 10, most of us have time to make informed decisions after research.

A (18:24)

Yeah.

B (18:24)

And not to say you don't go a certain route or you don't take a certain matter, do a certain surgery, but just when you think about it, and then you're getting even more opinions involved, that's more time. And that gives you more like, okay, I. I'm on the right path. If three people think this is the route you should take instead of reacting out of fear and doing something you might regret down the road.

A (18:47)

Absolutely. Well, because cancer is scary. When you hear that word, it. It. Wow. It is something that you can explain unless you're in those shoes, and nobody gets there for it. You know, there's no handbook, like, here's. Here's how to react when you get your cancer diagnosis. Right. There's no book out there like that. So, yeah, you do react and respond out of fear. And I think much more if it's a loved one. And I know you can tell this story when it's someone else. Like, my dad was diagnosed with cancer, and I remember this is back in 2015, it was like, well, yes, immediately, let's do this. Let's get the chemo going, let's get the radiation going, let's get the drugs in the system, you know? But if it was me, it would be a totally different response.

B (19:34)

Totally, Totally.

A (19:35)

Yes. Reacting out of fear is real, and I think it's amplified when it's someone else rather than yourself.

B (19:42)

It's so true. Like, even thinking back with you saying that, me thinking back when Darren was going through it. So, for those that don't know, my husband was diagnosed with brain cancer in 2009. He's had three brain surgeries and two rounds of chemo and radiation, but I was like, all about it. Like, Darren, you have to do this. You have to this. He's like, hold on, Give me some time. Like, the first time he was. We went into the ER or he actually went for just a random brain mri, we went into the ER because they saw a mass on his brain immediately. And so in that they wanted him to stay. And he was like, no, no, no, no, no. Give me a high dose of Decadron. He was a licensed pharmacist back in the day. You don't, you do not want him giving you medications anymore. But he was a licensed pharmacist and he's like, give me a high dose of Decadron. I'm going to go home. I've got to be with my family and I've got to think through some things. So, you know. Yeah, but I wanted him to do all the things.

A (20:34)

Yeah. Okay, well, now you dangle the carrot. So start at the beginning and tell everyone it's beginning. Whatever beginning you want to start at. Way at the beginning. Wait, tell people your story?

B (20:47)

Yeah, yeah. I kind of already filled gin. But cancer came into my world back in 2009 when Darren, my husband, was diagnosed with brain cancer. But then, you know, his last brain surgery was 2019, where it turned to grade four astrocytoma. And, you know, we thought he had 18 months to live. And I think back to all the stress I've dealt with over the years of caring for him. And, you know, if you met him, you wouldn't know he's doing great. But he definitely has some short term memory issues. He's had two massive rounds of radiation to his brain. So he struggles there, but the one thing he has, the one thing that he has is he's never had fear, he's never had worry, he's never had stress in his life. When we were sitting in that in 2009, the. Before the doctor even did brain surgery, before they even saw the brain tumor in his brain, they were going by the appearance of the mri and he said, this is going to be a glioblastoma and you have 18 months to live. Isn't that shocking?

A (21:46)

Forgive me? Chills. Oh, my gosh.

B (21:48)

Isn't that shocking?

A (21:48)

Why didn't he even go get the mri? What was he having? Like, symptom wise?

B (21:51)

He was having some. He just said, you know, we were at a date night and he said, I'm having like these weird. I'm like struggling coming up with how to spell certain words, like simple words. I'm like, really? He's like, yeah, I'm writing an email to my boss and I can't figure out like some simple word. I'm like, well, that's weird. Go to the doctor. And then they did some. The doctor was like, well, let's see if it's not like adult onset add. So they did a psychological Evaluation, they said, clearly something organic is going on. I'm sure it's nothing. You know, let's just do this MRI that happened to be on my birthday in 2009. But when he was sitting there, when the doctor gave him the. You have probably 18 months to live. Darren said, okay, well, that's not going to happen. I have two young kids. He was 36 years old. And he said, so what I want you to do is when you go in there, I want you to preserve. I want to be able to speak to my kids, you know? And this was just like it was back in the day, and we didn't have the tools here. We didn't know what we were doing, and we changed everything. His second and third. Third brain surgery were at MD Anderson with a really good doctor. A lot of testing. Everything changed after that first one. But, yeah, he has never had fear or worry, and he has not changed a single thing. I'm not even joking. He doesn't. He didn't change his diet. He still loves his cocktails and his Manhattan. He loves sugar. I swear he's addicted to sugar. He's not changed one single thing. But then I was diagnosed in 2021 with breast cancer, and I freaked. I remember this fear going into my breast surgeon's office. I was like, I don't care what you need to do. Take my breasts. I need to be here for my husband and my family. He has great. He has brain cancer. And she was like, you're good, girl. This is easy. I'm more worried about your husband. And I loved that. I loved that mentality because my doctor just was like, this is no big deal. So she had me slow down a little bit, and I didn't do that. And, you know, I really thought through things. And I researched my doctors. You know, they wanted to give me a team. Like, here's your doctors. Here's everybody. And I was like, wait a minute. I need to do my research. I need to figure out who I want to go to. So I did figure out, go slower, slower pace. Do your research. But, yeah, so it was invasive ductal carcinoma, stage one, grade two. I had a lumpectomy. I had radiation. I struggled with this. I struggled because I don't even take Advil if I have a headache. Like, I do not like this. But I went in this because it's what they told me to do. And I was scared. And I did my 19 rounds of radiator. Was it 20, 20, 19 or 20 rounds of radiation? I remember walking into My radiation machine. And she had lashes and a bow. I was like, oh, okay, I'm good. For some reason that comforted me. It really did. And then I had an oncotype score that was a little bit higher. So I was in that gray area whether chemo was beneficial for me or not. And I ended up not doing chemo, but she shut down my ovaries with zoladex injections. I ended up having my ovaries out and then two years later was forced into or that put me into osteoporosis, which I now no longer take. So that was, that was a struggle, you know, because they. There's so much fear mongering and you know, the things that my oncologist said to me are horrific. I no longer see her anymore. I think it's really important to get the right doctor because, you know, she said a lot of scary things to me if I did go off. And I don't think that's, that's right, you know.

A (25:22)

Okay, so first of all, what brought you into the office in the first place? Did you find a lump?

B (25:29)

So, no, I didn't feel anything. It was a routine mammogram. And I will tell you, this is weird. This is kind of out there, woo woo stuff. But I. For about four months leading up to my breast cancer, the diagnosis, I kept seeing the number 1111.

A (25:44)

I was like, what is this?

B (25:46)

I mean, everywhere, all day. I couldn't believe it. 1:11 people sending messages at 11:11 on the clock. It was everywhere. I was like, this is so weird. And all of a sudden I thought, I looked it up and it was like, pay attention. It was like, pay attention to your thoughts. And I was like, okay, what do I need? And I was like, wait, am I, am I late on a mammogram? And so I called and I was just a little bit late on the mammogram. Isn't that bizarre? And 1111 has been with me ever since. So I don't know, I just find that's weird. But so I went in, routine mammogram and they called me back and said, we see something. And she said, she called me on the phone, she said, do you want to know which breast? And in my head I went, I was like, sure. And in my head I was like, she's going to say my left. I know she's going to say my left. And she said, it's your left. I was like, okay. Another really weird thing that was so weird to me.

A (26:36)

Yeah.

B (26:37)

And then I went in and had the repeat mammogram and ultrasound and saw the doctor and he said, so we think this is cancer. And I'm like, okay, well, I still thought, there's no way. I thought, there's no way they're going to get in and do this biopsy. And there's. There's just no way. Like, how could a husband and wife both have cancer?

A (26:55)

Yeah. So, yeah, I can't get the biopsy.

B (26:59)

I got the diagnosis.

A (27:01)

No, I had the same thought for. For a while. I will say that. I. I thought, like, this is wrong. Like, maybe the guy that reads the pathology report is wrong. Having a bad day, whatever. They're humans, you know, I. I thought the same thing. Like, no, there's no way this is cancer. It's not. I don't. I don't feel it. And actually, on the woo aspect, I also, I had lunch. I was. I was traveling for an event, had lunch with a couple that, that they're entrepreneurs, they're fantastic. And he is a little bit of a medical medium. Like, he has had this intuition since he was young, doesn't capitalize on it. It's just a gift. Just a gift that he has. And he literally looked at me. He's like, I do not smell, see, feel cancer. I don't. I just don't. Now, that was right before I was getting the PET scan. So I went back home, got the PET scan which kind of confirmed it, and it lit up. But literally he wasn't seeing or feeling it either. So I just wasn't giving off that. The cancer vibe, I guess. I don't know. Are you sick of hearing me talk about Young Goose yet? Well, that's too bad, because I love them and I have been using them now for years, probably about two or three years. And I can honestly say that my skin looks great. So I go to my plastic surgeon's office to get a little bit of botox, right? And he says, what are you doing for your skin? Because your skin looks great. And I'm 50. It's going to be yungoos. You know, I've never had the ability to do those ablative lasers that are supposed to refresh and renew your skin. I just can't do it. I break out. So I love a good product line that is actually going to do something with my skin and help me not age. So whether we're talking about eye cream, finding that perfect eye cream, whether you're finding that perfect collagen boosting cream that smooths out wrinkles, Young Goose has it All I use pretty much everything in their line. But my favorites are going to be the care moisturizer. This has NAD and NAD boosting powers to it which obviously helps your skin. We love nad. For anti aging I use the hyperbaric mask. At night I put that on. Oh my gosh. It just renews and replenishes and hydrates my skin. I use the Pro care serum. This is an anti aging serum. It's senolytic meaning it's going to seek out and destroy the bad cells and promote new cell growth. I use the adaptogenic cleanser. I use the amplifying essence which really kind of boosts up your skin care overall. Bio C peptide spray is a toner. Their entire line is fantastic. If you even start with two to three products, you will notice a difference in your skin. So you're going to go to young goose.com and you're going to use the code Dr. Amy. This is going to save you 5% off. Now is it a ginormous savings? No, but their line is so precise and so grounded in science. This is what they can offer. And you know, I love the owners too. I think buying from, from a family owned company is so important and if you met the owners you would fall in love and want to use their products every single day because you know that their heart and soul is literally behind this line. So young goose.com use the code Dr. Amy. You will notice a difference in your skin. Yeah, that's wild.

B (30:43)

It's wild. It's life changing. So did it, I'm curious because you already we're doing all the things, I mean what do you do? Because for me, for me, okay, I think back to when I was diagnosed and I look back to what I was doing prior. I was a health and fitness coach eating all the protein bars and the protein shakes and the quick deli meat with wrapped in cheese and you know there no sugar because God forbid or no fruit because God forbid fruit has sugar. Like you know, that healthy chocolate fitting into the skinny jeans, not focused on actual food. Right? Yeah. And so for me I was able to go into it immediately because I'm a control person. I was able to say okay, what can I do? Because right now this is here. And instinctively I knew how important food was. And even for a few days I didn't even want to put any food into my body. And then I just went full forward with like, you know, I eat mostly whole food, plant based, not the fake meats. I don't do any of the fake Stuff I eat a ton of fruits and vegetables and focus on that and that. But that gave me a sense of control. I also added in meditation and journaling and calming activities. And yeah, I did everything else too. You know, I. I went and met with an energy healer. I did acupuncture, I did hydrocholine therapies for a while. Like, you name it, if it was out there, I would try it. But I feel like you were doing all the things. So what was that hard or were you not doing all the things?

A (32:16)

I wasn't really doing all the things. Like, I mean, you know, I'm pretty open about the fact that I'm human. Like, please don't ever put me on a pedestal and think I'm perfect because I'm not same, you know, I'm not. So I would say I was keto ish for the most part. I've eaten low carb my life. I had PCOS and insulin resistance, you know, back in the. When I was being diagnosed with hypothyroidism. Right. At all. So basically I had to change my eating back then anyways. And that just works for me. Low carb works for me. So I was doing lower carb, not 100% keto. I wasn't measuring my ketones or anything like that. Could I have stepped it up a notch? Could I have stepped it up a notch at the point of time when I was told that I had a 30 to 40% increased risk of cancer? Yes. So out of this whole journey, I would say the only regret, and I'll still even use that in air quotes, regret that I have is that I didn't implement more at that point of time when it was still atypical complex hyperplasia. Could I have stopped it from turning to cancer? I don't know. There could have been cancer there anyways and they just didn't biopsy that part of my uterus. You know, I. I really do not know. But no, I was, I was not perfect. I wasn't horrible. You know, I wasn't eating boatloads of. Of garbage food. I never drink pop. I don't eat out. I quit alcohol about a year and a half ago. So I was, I was better than most. But not perfect.

B (33:51)

Yeah. And there is no such thing as perfect. And, and we don't know exactly what is going to cause it or what's going to make it come back or cause it in the beginning. We don't know. I don't think it's ever one thing. It's so it's multifaceted. There's so many things.

A (34:03)

Yeah.

B (34:04)

And we just don't know. But I do believe. I really believe stress and mindset play an enormous role. And one thing, it's because I look at my husband. I mean, the only changes he's made are the changes that I've made in the house to minimize toxins. That's. Cause, you know, but he. He doesn't work out. He doesn't do anything that I do. But I know for me. I know for me, I have to make these changes. I have to meditate and. Because that's what minimizes the fear for me. That's what makes me feel calm. That's what makes me feel like I'm on the right track and minimizes that fear. And he doesn't have to do anything, which, gosh, I wish I had more of him in me.

A (34:49)

Oh, boy. Yeah. No, I do. I do believe that stress is huge. It's just huge. Like, I remember when my dad got diagnosed with his cancer, he had lymphoma, that he was in the midst of taking care of my mother, who had Alzheimer's. And it's like, you know, that stressor, I think, flipped the cancer switch. It just plays a huge role. And I know, I fully know and admit, as much as I love being an entrepreneur and I love the challenges that come with work, I love it all. It still is a stressor. And it's funny, I was actually doing an interview with Cash of Khan. He was reviewing my DNA. We'll release that eventually on the podcast. Reviewing my DNA now, this was like a. I'll say a blind interview. I. I didn't meet with him beforehand. He was reviewing my DNA live in real time. I had no clue what he was going to say.

B (35:47)

Oh, my God, I would love to do this.

A (35:49)

It was really cool. It was really cool. Because he's like, you don't feel stress, do you? I'm like, no, I'm good. I love life. It's awesome. I love the challenges. Bring them on. He's like, yeah, except that it's affecting your body. You literally have a gene that you don't really perceive stress unless it's massive, you know, a death in the family or something like that. But other than that, those stressors that are affecting your nervous system and are affecting the cells of your body, you're not even aware that they're affecting it because you don't feel stress. I was like, oh, oh, my God.

B (36:28)

So it's the truth. That's what I found out about me too. I found out that I, and I, I'm not surprised. I mean, if we really look at the day to day life that we live in now with our phones and being an entrepreneur like you said, I could literally, and I love what I do too, I could do this all day long. I literally have to make myself do the activities that get me outside and bring me into that parasympathetic state because I live in that constant state of high cortisol all throughout the day. By doing the Dutch test, I learned not the DNA one, but I would like to do that. Can you have to give me a doctor on that guy. But I, yeah, I have to work at it. So what do you do to work at it? Or is this new to you and you're like, shit, I need to bring this in.

A (37:13)

You know, it's funny. So I just. Right before we jumped on here, I was interviewing Dr. Melissa Saunders and she's talking about the nervous system and kind of rewiring and resetting and getting into the proper brain waves. And I love how she put it because I've always had this thought too of like, well, if I can't meditate for an hour and if I can't ground five times a day and look at the sun and worship the, the sun and do a sun salutation and put my feet in the whatever, why do it? And she's like, no, two minutes a couple times a day. And what she said was she goes, if you can walk outside, cool. If not, don't worry about it. Look at something five feet in front of you and just focus on that. It's literally that simple. She goes, when you focus on something five feet in front of you for two to five minutes a couple times a day, that literally resets your nervous system. You don't need to meditate, deep breathe, you know, lay on a PMF math for an hour. Like it's that simple. So when you simplify it for me, I will do it. So I can do that. But did I feel, and I would love to ask you this too about almost like, well, there's supplement overwhelm and then there's almost care guilt. And I have been having and still do have self care guilt in that I'm not doing enough, I had cancer. Why aren't I taking more time out of my day to do an hour in the sauna and a half an hour on my PMF mat and 90 minutes in the HBOT and meditate and ground and walk and brainwave and brain tap and heart math and all the different damn devices you could possibly do to get into parasympathetic. I know I have, I have self care, Self, self care guilt that I don't do enough for myself. So I think if I can just implement that two minute thing. Okay, that takes a lot of pressure off. So the question goes right back to you, like what are you doing now to self care to control stress and what biohacks are you fitting in or not fitting in?

B (39:20)

First of all, I'm so glad you brought all this up because I feel the same way. But when I was first diagnosed it was my full time job cancer. I was with a company that I could kind of like fall back and not work as much for a little bit and still earn money. And so for literally about a year, cancer was my full time job. But it also became unhealthy. And that's where I think we have to really create a balance to it. Because I was at acupuncture two or three times a week I bought a sauna. So I'm going in the sauna all the time. Everything you can imagine, I'm adding. And not only is it a full time job, it's freaking expensive.

A (39:58)

Yes.

B (39:58)

I mean like I couldn't believe the cost. My husband's like, how much are you paying on those for those herbal med medications? Like it was just wild all the things I was doing. And then I got to the point where it became a little bit unhealthy. Where I was, I would say orthorexic almost because I was even fearful of food and what I was putting into my body and oh my gosh, I don't want to go to that event because when, what if there's not food that I can eat or people are like why aren't you drinking? Like all those thoughts were happening to me. So I was avoiding and I got stuck in this cancer bubble. And then finally I feel like I have balance in my life. I remember my girlfriend Chalene looked at me, she was like. Cuz all of a sudden I started talking about a parasite cleanse like next. And she's like yeah, Jen, can I just talk to you for a second? And she's like, do you really feel like you need to go down that rabbit hole? And I, I thank her so much for that because she actually did open my eyes to where I was with everything. I remember even I was playing pickleball with my husband. We did a quick stop off at my sister's to drop something off and it was labor Day, this was a few years ago. And she's like, come on in, let's have a glass of wine. I've got some cheese out. And I was like, I said, hey, I've got to go home. I've got to take my dog out really quick. All this was a lie. I wanted to get home to get a wine that I knew was safer because it was sulfite free and from a different country and have snacks that were healthy for me. Like what? Like that's not okay. Like we cannot live in a world where we're completely fearing everything. It's so unhealthy. So now I've come to a place where I totally have balance. You know, I'm doing really good nutrition wise. Most of the time if I'm traveling or I stop off at my sisters and you know, I don't worry about things as much, but I do like your, the, the woman that you were just interviewing him or her name. I always preach and I do this every day is like two minutes of just a box broth box, breathing in for four, hold for four, release for four, hold for four. Literally right there and just a few seconds you feel calmer. Like even when I tell people I feel calmer. So it's activities like that that I do throughout the day instead of hour long visits to different doctors and acupunctures and all the things. And so I've created balance around it. But I do sauna. I love the sauna though. The sauna to me is therapy. I think, I think whatever healing modality you choose that's going to bring you into that parasympathetic state is it can't feel like a job. You have to love it. So if getting in the sauna feels torturous to you, that's not good. It's all about mindset and what's bringing us more peace. But I do have red light therapy. I have a PMF mat. I don't do it a ton. I don't know. I'm actually just in the beginning of researching red light therapy. I know it's great. You probably know a whole ton about it.

A (42:53)

Well, I, I also researched it because, and I'm very open about. Anytime I talk about red light therapy, I always lead with, I thought it was bullshit because how can shining a red light on your thyroid help your thyroid on your skin? It helps your skin, it helps your organs and helps your cancer and helps this and helps that. I'm like, come on, really? But then you look at the research and I know that we can skew research. I get that. I totally get it. It can be biased, but there's so much out there to the benefit of red light on a multitude of different systems, organs. Like I said, your skin, collagen production, your thyroid, that it's like, okay, I don't think we can call this anymore. I think there's something to this.

B (43:39)

So do you have a device?

A (43:41)

I have sort of them, actually.

B (43:43)

So do I.

A (43:44)

So first I started with, okay, I want the red light for my skin because I want to prevent wrinkles. So I have a. My deluxe red light. It's just like a little portable.

B (43:54)

Yeah, I have that too.

A (43:55)

Bathroom. So, you know, wash your face, stick your face in that. Well then after the cancer diagnosis, I got a big ass, like, red light sleeping blanket, pretty much. So I snuggle into that at night as I'm ending the day watching some Netflix. And I have that on. So that's hitting my entire body. I just take off my clothes, jump in it, and it's hitting my entire body. Because as I was going through when I was in the in between stage diagnosis to surgery, and I was doing the exploration and the research, I found a lot on red light and cancer. And literally getting that red light, like right on my belly, right on my uterus, basically, and. And letting it penetrate deep. I mean, studies show that it can help. Now, ultimately, yes, I had the surgery. I have no idea whether red light can cure cancer or not, because I didn't give it a try and take it all the way. But hey, if it could help, if it can. I know after surgery, I think there's a lot to it.

B (44:55)

So I have the red light mat as well. So if I'm laying on the mat on my back, like you said, I will do the same thing. I put it on my bed and I put my blanket over me and I lay on that watching a little show. But if I want it to focus on my breast, does it have to be touching?

A (45:13)

I think it does, yeah. Yeah, I think there is. I don't know, all the different wavelengths. Right. But the different wavelengths can penetrate so deep through the epidermis, dermis, Hit yourselves, all of that. I think you will still get some systemic benefit. But I would 100 get a topper, get another blanket and lay it on top of you so it's touching your breasts.

B (45:36)

Yeah. And I do have like the box too, and all the things. So. Okay, interesting. So what is your favorite? Like, out of all the things that you do, let's say what are your top three favorite things that you do?

A (45:48)

Like biohacks?

B (45:50)

Yeah, like extra things.

A (45:52)

Well, I do love the red light because that actually it's almost like a little cocoon. So it helps calm me too at the end of the night, at the end of the day. So I do love that. So whether it's helping or not feels darn good. So I love that. I love my sauna. Love my sauna. Absolutely. It's just so nice. And one thing that I again back to kind of the, the pressure to do biohacks. I bought an hbot. I'm actually going to be putting it online to sell. It's a soft sided, it's beautiful summit to see. I'm literally looking at it through the camera right there. It's in my office. I don't use it enough. The key to buying a biohacking tool is using it. So I don't use it enough. What I do use is my exercise with oxygen therapy. My E what so in my gym like we have, you know, garage gym set up. I bought an E Watt, which oxygen compressor goes to this big bag that's behind me, has a mask with a tube. I put the mask on and I get on my bike or like today I did reverse lunges with dumbbells with the mask on connected to this machine. So I'm breathing. Basically as you're increasing your heart rate through exercise, your body is taking in this high dose of oxygen, basically saturating your cells with oxygen with the whole theory that cancer cannot exist and thrive in an oxygenated environment. That's why we do the hbot. But again, if you're not going to do it, the machine is pointless. So I will do the EWAT because it's really only 15 minutes out of my entire workout.

B (47:41)

Then you can do something else along with it. With the hbot. You're in there like what can you do?

A (47:47)

I mean you can work. You know, I bought my computer and my phone and there before. It's not a hard sided where like okay, medical ones are like you got to go in, in like a hospital gown, take everything off, don't take your phone in. And it's the hard side of ones that we heard about the recent problems, you know, with them like because they're literally using oxygen, they're using the, the containers of oxygen that have the big warning label like don't get in your flame or whatever. This just has an. The soft sided is nice because it has an oxygen compressor to give extra oxygen through a mask that you can put on in the chamber, but the chamber is big enough that you could do yoga in it if you wanted to.

B (48:26)

Wow.

A (48:26)

Yeah.

B (48:27)

Okay, so with the Ewa, it's so expensive though, right? I'm imagining. I'm guessing, like, I'm just. I'm just thinking. Like a listener who's listening right now is thinking, okay, what do we say? Red light therapy, sauna, Ewa. Like, each of those are so expensive. Like, what if we were to tell somebody listening who's like, okay, I want to heal from cancer, but how can I do this? And it's not going to cost me a fortune.

A (48:51)

Okay, nicotine patches. So I interviewed Dr. Brian Ardis a while ago, and I started listening to all of this alternate, you know, the alternative cancer treatments. In fact, I. I actually talked to. Oh, my gosh. The Truth About Cancer. Bollinger. Charlene.

B (49:06)

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

A (49:08)

And talked to Charlene Bollinger. And that Truth About Cancer series is what I purchased on, like, DVD for my dad back in 2014, 2015. So I've started listening to that. So I kind of knew about all of these alternative treatments out there.

B (49:27)

Are you talking about nicotine patches back then?

A (49:30)

I think so. Went all the way back then, but. But it's been a while that I've been hearing about it. And then I interviewed Dr. Brian Ardis and the stories on nicotine and what it can do. Oh, my gosh. So that's cheap and easy. A nice little 7 milligram nicotine patch. Throw it on. I got one on right now. Wow. And I mean, if it doesn't do any, it's not hurting anything. So that's cheap. Easy. Another. Really. Have you looked into chlorine dioxide at all?

B (49:59)

I've listened to your episode on it.

A (50:01)

That's fascinating as well. Again, make it like, right, it's cheap. You can make it. Now, you have to be educated on it and you have to really listen to because your family members and your friends are going to say, what are you doing drinking chlorine? No, no, no. It's not the same.

B (50:16)

Right, right, right.

A (50:17)

I'm Chlorine dioxide. So that's another really cheap, easy.

B (50:21)

What do you think about ivermectin?

A (50:23)

Yep, that was gonna be next. Ivermectin, Fenbendazole. No brainer. No brain.

B (50:28)

Where does somebody get ivermectin right now? Like, let's just say. And. Okay, here's my question about ivermectin. This was like a year after my diagnosis. So I was diagnosed in 20, 21. I was traveling back from New York on a flight. I'm sure I got it. Then I got the worst Covid ever. Like, I thought I was gonna die. I was so sick. I had dropped 20 pounds in like two weeks. And I'm tiny. I'm five two. I weigh like 110. I got down to like 90 some pounds. So I thought I was dying. And my blood oxygen was like in, in the mid-80s. I actually, Chalene put me in touch with Natalie Jill. Natalie Jill got me in touch with some guy out in. I don't even know where he was. And he hooked me up and he got me Ivermectin and he got me a breathing treatment and just like saved my life, really. And I will never forget. So I took ivermectin and I had this like euphoric state afterwards. I felt amazing. And I don't know if it was just because I thought I was dying and now I was fine, but it was wild. So with Ivermectin, is this something that somebody takes in a pill form? Like, how do they get it? Like, do you take it constantly? Is it just something you do every once in a while?

A (51:42)

Okay, so this is going to lead me into. Before I answer that, lead me into talking about the tar test, D A T A R. And if you have not had this done, if your husband have not had this done, you need to do it now. Is it expensive? Yes. It's around a $3,000 test. And no insurance doesn't cover it.

B (52:05)

Never know.

A (52:05)

Here's the thing. We all have circulating tumor cells. Whether you've been diagnosed with cancer or not, we all have cancer cells. But especially if you've had cancer, you and I have leftover circulating tumor cells. So now that we've dealt with the cancer that was known, dealt with the container, we dealt with the mass that's out, and now technically, we are cancer free. In the oncology world, you know, they ring the bell, ding, ding, ding. We are cancer free. However, are we really? So the ditar test takes your circulating tumor cells and tests them against a multitude of different reagents. So it could be testing chemotherapy drugs and a multitude of them. Every classification from, from really, really nasty to this doesn't have that many side effects, to non chemotherapeutic drugs or even naturally occurring substances. So I'll go into that column. What I showed was that my cancer cells will die at about a 65. Anywhere I look, I looked at like the 50 to 75 percentile. So between 50% cell death rate. 75% cell death rate. I showed positive for ivermectin, fenbendazole, aspirin, metformin, indole, 3 carbinol, resveratrol, vitamin C. Wow. We use high dose vitamin C, right? With cancer, vitamin C? As much as I can possibly take. And then there was a couple other. Like, there was a statin in there. It's like, no, we're not going to use the statin. We're going to use the one below it. That's resveratrol. Yes. Okay, we'll do that instead.

B (53:54)

Yeah.

A (53:54)

It was fascinating to see that these things, these substances, these vitamins, minerals, nutrients, can literally cause cell death of a cancer cell.

B (54:07)

Wow.

A (54:08)

So that's what I'm using. So I will be using ivermectin and fenben. I actually tested better for fenben than Menben. They tested both. Yep. So I will be using fenbendazole and ivermectin often on, really for the rest of my life.

B (54:24)

Wow. Okay. So you just go in cycles, like phases?

A (54:27)

Yeah, I go about like four to five days on a couple days off.

B (54:30)

Got it.

A (54:31)

Yeah. Yeah. And where do you get it to answer that question, you know, India. I mean, there's no doctor here in the United. They wouldn't even prescribe it. And we knew it cured Covid and you couldn't freaking get ivermectin. So, yeah, good luck going to your local PCP and saying, hey, doc, can you write me a script for ivermectin? They're not going to do it.

B (54:51)

Can you get it through, like a functional doctor or. You literally have to know somebody to know somebody to know somebody to get it from somewhere.

A (54:57)

You know what? I don't know. I don't. I. I think even functional docs got the fear of God put into them that they were going to lose their license in 2020 and 2021. That it's hard out there. I don't know. I mean, I'm sure you could find somebody that's a maverick that would do it, but wow. Other than that, you know, vile.com kind of thing from India, you know.

B (55:21)

Okay, can you tell me a little bit about. And I. And I know we're almost finished here, but can you tell me a little bit about aspirin? Like, why. What does that help with?

A (55:28)

So, ironically, I heard who was talking about this. It was either Jonathan Otto or Brian Artisan, because they are. They're on the fringe of all this stuff. So somebody. There was a Podcast that was talking about the powerful benefits of aspirin on cancer. And, you know, it's like, you hear it and then you're like, okay, well, that'd be easy to add in. But then when my test came back and it showed a positive reaction to aspirin, it's like, all right, well, I'll pop that every day.

B (55:56)

That's cool. And is it just like, a low dose?

A (55:59)

Yeah, just like the baby aspirin that they know.

B (56:01)

I've heard it too. I've heard it too. And I couldn't remember what it was about it. And, you know, it can help with other things too, so that's pretty amazing.

A (56:08)

So it's part pregnenolone. Oh, pregnenolone is huge. Huge. So I have, literally, I have pregnenolone fixer as part of my line, so that's a bonus for me. But pregnenolone, I created that product because I was seeing such low pregnenolone levels. Pregnenolone is a precursor hormone. It helps our sex hormones, and then it also helps protect our brain. So it's great if you have Alzheimer's, dementia, Parkinson's in your family. So that's why I started taking it. It also helps support your adrenals, because our adrenal glands, when we're under stress, will steal pregnenolone in order to make cortisol. Well, now. Now that I'm in the old cancer world and the cancer journey, pregnenolone is huge at cancer prevention.

B (56:54)

Okay, well, you need to send me the link for that, and then I'll have that in my show notes because I'm really. That one I didn't know about, so that would be great. And then I want to just say talk one more thing. We'll be brief about it because the interesting thing about Amy and I is we both. It's a hormone positive cancer, right?

A (57:13)

Yep.

B (57:14)

And so one thing about me, just a little explanation and backstory, is about a year and a half prior to my diagnosis, I was on synthetic progesterone and a testosterone pellet.

A (57:31)

Okay.

B (57:32)

And then I was diagnosed.

A (57:33)

Okay, well, it's progestin. Was that an iud? Birth control? What form was it? Okay, so you were just a progestin pill. Okay, Got it correct.

B (57:42)

And then immediately they put all the fear in you that, you know, you gotta go off your hormones and whatever. It's a hormone positive breast cancer. So I went off, of course, and have fear, you know, still about it. I just do. I just have a little bit of ptsd. And I also think, and what I've read and researched lately, the synthetic form is not great. You should always be getting bioidentical number one. I've also heard the, the testosterone pellet isn't as good because they cannot control the levels. And I think I had a very high. I mean, I don't think I tested my testosterone was off the chart like when I had that pellet. So I definitely had some issues like, you know, and again, you can never go back and blame. If it was this one thing, was it the catalyst to kind of like kick things up a notch? Possibly. And so now I have not done anything else. Although I do take vaginal estrogen, which is completely safe. My good lord, that is safe. And it's fine. And I can't imagine my life without it. Right, Right. Yeah. So you didn't go off hrt, you stopped for a little bit and went back on.

A (58:48)

Yeah, yeah, right, Exactly. Yeah. No, I'm so happy you brought that up because I was going to ask you what your decision was, especially since they took your ovary, so they forced you in. You're in. Doesn't even matter your age right now. You're in menopause.

B (59:00)

Oh, yeah.

A (59:01)

Right. Yeah. So for me, so when I first got the diagnosis in April, I was on the higher dosing of hormones. My uterine cancer was stage one, grade one, but E positive, so estrogen positive. And I knew that this was the decision I had to make. So the immediate reaction was just drop the hormones, go static, go, go to a patch. A nice like point. I had 2.1 milligram patches on. Okay. And that still sucked. I mean, I, I just released a podcast a couple weeks ago on why I decided to go back to high dosing of estrogen. I chose to go back to the high dose estrogen because literally it was an immediate symptom onslaught. Okay, My skin got loose, I got dizzy, I got moody. I, I gotta get by dry vagina. I mean, that's the whole thing. Like everything started happening. And that's why in. In the podcast that I released, I not only explained why I went back to the high dosing, but I also explained why I feel so badly for women who don't know about the power of hormones and who literally have to go through these hellish symptoms as their doctors say. No, you're not allowed to have hormones because the Women's Health Initiative study, that is so freaking outdated and wrong, said that you're going to get cancer because of the hormones. Like, oh, the suffering. My God. So, yes, I chose the hormones because of just everything that I know. All the amazing hormone experts out there, like Dr. Lindsey Bergson, like Julie Taguchi, who's a functional oncologist, who I consulted with multiple times. And, you know, she saw my path reports, she saw everything. And, you know, none of them said, you know, I think you should avoid hormones here. None of them. So, you know, I am just doing what is right for me. It's a personal decision. I don't judge. I don't shame any woman out there who is fearful of a cancer recurrence, especially after having a hormone positive cancer. I, you know, I get that fear. I get that fear. This is, this is my choice. It's a personal choice. And at the same time, I'm also doing everything possible to clear that estrogen. Yeah. I take boatloads of supplements daily to make sure that I am detoxing and clearing and then the sauna and I, yes, I poop every day. That's the best form of detox ever. Yeah. So that was my decision. So now I'm going to throw that same question back to you. First of all, Jen, how old are you?

B (61:42)

I'm 52 now, but I was diagnosed at 47, premenopausal.

A (61:46)

Okay.

B (61:46)

So. And I was not, I was not in menopause. I mean, I was perimenopause, of course, but honestly, here's the other reason why I haven't. So I really did look into it and I thought, you know, I should go on it. Because of course, you know, the issue with breast cancer with women, I fully understand, isn't necessarily that the breast cancer is going to recur. Like there's going to be a recurrence. We're dealing with cardiovascular, we're dealing with brain health, we're dealing with bone health. We've got a whole slew of issues. And that's what worried me a lot. And so I was like, what, how do I, what do I do? And I did a ton of research and I ended up doing some testing with my functional doctor and we did a Dutch test and I did learn that I don't methylate. It goes down the wrong pathway. Like, if you could see if looking at my Dutch test, I was like, oh, this explains everything. Yeah, it showed me everything. Like, I was not shocked anymore of why I got a diagnosis because everything goes down the wrong pathway. And, you know, I don't metabolize properly. It's all the things, anything wrong with that could be on a Dutch test. I swear, it's me.

A (62:49)

Yeah. Yeah.

B (62:50)

So what I do is I do minimize the toxins in my home as much as I can. I minimize the xenoestrogens everywhere. I don't do fragrance. I changed out plastic to glassware. Like, I've done all of those things. Swapped out my cleaners, the air quality, everything that I could handle in my home. I also recently started microdosing a GLP1.

A (63:11)

Yep. Yep.

B (63:12)

To help combat. Because there's so much emerging research about microdosing GLP1s with helping with cardiovascular and helping with brain and helping with bones and so much more. It's wild. So that's what I've been doing, and that's what helps me. And to be honest, I'm not dealing with, like, what you were talking about, how you were feeling, all those symptoms. I really didn't have that. And I do think women in general, we handle menopause differently.

A (63:43)

Oh, yeah.

B (63:43)

Oh, yeah. And I think that if you can't live your life, and that's the same with, like, hormone blocking meds. You know, I chose to go off hormone blocking meds because my quality of life was bad. Did my oncologist want me to stay on it? Yeah. Did I want to? I wasn't going to live like that, though. I was dealing with osteoporosis. Like, are you kidding me? So I think that we're all unique. All of our bodies work differently. And I think ultimately you have to do whatever you fully believe in without any fear attached to it. Because if you're doing something that causes fear, that's just bringing on more stress and it's not good for you.

A (64:23)

Right. So. Yeah, yeah. No, I love this because we both approached it differently. And both options are okay. Both decisions are okay.

B (64:34)

Absolutely. It's whatever you think is right for you. And I think, you know, just understand and you're. You're closely working with doctors who are saying this is okay. Right. And getting testing and all the things that you're doing. And the extras. I'm doing all the extras too. Taking the indel or the dim and indel 3, carbinol and the calcium deglucarate. And what else am I. I mean, all the things. So I think we do most of the same things just to help combat all that as well. This has been such a fun conversation.

A (65:03)

Oh, my gosh. This is amazing. And I think this is what women need to hear. Well, people. But especially women, because we get hit with the reproductive cancers. Right. That people really need to hear. And, you know, at the, at the End of the day, I just have to say this. I said it on. On the one podcast I did where I really unpacked my whole cancer journey. There is no way to know what causes cancer. We could sit here all day long, Jen, I could talk to you about the glyphosate that's being sprayed, like, two miles down the road of a field in Iowa. You know, we don't know. Is it the stress? Is it the glyphosate? Is it the hormones? Is it our detox pathways? Is it our genetics? Is it the Dutch test? Is it. I don't know. Right. I don't know. And I don't think we will ever know. So that's why you. You can't point a finger. And kind of going back to the very first question you asked me, I never thought to myself, ooh, I'm going to keep this a secret so as not to be judged. You can't point a finger. I actually. I only had one person. One. Thank God, just one. There's a lot crazy out there that actually posted on. I don't know, I think a Facebook post or something that. Well, I'm not gonna trust you anymore because you got cancer. I was like, well, that's not a patient that I want anyway. So bye, Felicia. Like, seriously.

B (66:20)

Right.

A (66:21)

The bottom line is, please, my God, if you actually think that. Shift your thinking, because you could get. We all are susceptible. We all are susceptible.

B (66:31)

Absolutely. I say that all the time. And, you know, I will talk about alcohol every once in a while, too. And. And so many people comment, and there's people who never have had a drop of alcohol.

A (66:40)

Yep.

B (66:41)

That get breast cancer. Like, we don't know. And I think with ending this, I think it's really important to say is, step outside of your cancer bubble. Go live your life. Don't live in fear. Do some things to calm yourself. Bring yourself into that parasympathetic state like the things we talked about. You don't have to do it all. Just do what feels right to you. But I'm so excited for this conversation. Of course, everything will be in the show notes.

A (67:06)

Yeah, absolutely. Same with me. Everything is in the show notes. So I know we're really like the dual podcast. I love it.

B (67:13)

I love it.

A (67:13)

Thank you, Jen. I mean, you asked great questions. And thank you for sharing your journey through you, too.

B (67:19)

Thank you so much, Amy. All right, you guys, we will see you all soon.

A (67:23)

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