The Thyroid Fixer Podcast — Episode 560

Double Cancer Diagnosis: Conversations on Treatments, Healing, and HRT
Host: Dr. Amie Hornaman
Guest: Jen Debrow
Date: September 12, 2025

Episode Overview

In this deeply personal and informative episode, Dr. Amie Hornaman and guest Jen Debrow candidly share their journeys through cancer diagnoses: Dr. Amie’s uterine cancer (2025) and Jen’s breast cancer (2021), alongside her husband’s battle with brain cancer. Their discussion covers everything from the shock of diagnosis, the decision-making process in treatment, exploring alternative and conventional therapies, hormone replacement therapy (HRT) after hormone-positive cancers, managing fear and stress, and how to rebuild life afterward. The hosts openly address the nuanced realities facing women in health, especially those navigating hormone disorders and cancer, offering validation, empathy, and practical advice for listeners at any stage of a similar journey.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Vulnerability and Cancer Diagnosis in the Health Space

• Being in healthcare doesn’t grant immunity:
  Dr. Amie discusses the myth that health experts are invulnerable to illness:

  “Who in their right minds thinks that they are so lofty and so special that cancer can't touch them? ... You are vulnerable just like the rest of us.” — Dr. Amie (09:15)

• Community response to openness:
  Both women note surprising support and gratitude for their openness in sharing such personal health experiences.

2. Amie’s Uterine Cancer Story

• Initial Protocol & Discovery:

  • Dr. Amie experimented with rhythmic hormone dosing based on anecdotal reports but failed to see expected results (12:30).
  • Routine ultrasounds and a biopsy revealed atypical complex hyperplasia with a 30–40% chance of turning into cancer (13:45). She initially refused a hysterectomy, opting for close monitoring.
  • The subsequent cancer diagnosis forced her to reconsider:

    “Right now you have the cancer that is contained. It's in a container called your uterus... If you don't get that container out ... and it spreads to your ovaries ... that's a whole different animal.” — Amie retelling a friend's advice (16:30)

• Exploring Alternatives & Agreeing to Surgery:
  Amie researched HBOT, chlorine dioxide, nicotine, fasting, keto, and more before ultimately choosing surgery, recognizing the limits and risks of alternative approaches in certain cases.

3. Jen’s Story: From Caregiver to Cancer Patient

• Husband’s Brain Cancer:

  • Darren, diagnosed at 36 in 2009, with repeated surgeries and treatments, faced his illness with remarkable equanimity and no lifestyle changes, which amazed Jen (20:47).

    “He has never had fear, he's never had worry, he's never had stress in his life.” — Jen (21:13)

• Own Breast Cancer Diagnosis:

  • Jen’s diagnosis came after routine mammography and despite being a health coach. Her initial instinct was to “do whatever it takes” out of fear.
  • She ultimately had a lumpectomy, radiation, ovary removal, and dealt with rapid-onset menopause (23:30).
  • A memorable “woo” moment included a series of number signs, compelling her to book her mammogram (25:29).

    “For about four months ... I kept seeing the number 1111 ... Pay attention to your thoughts ... Was I late on a mammogram?” — Jen (25:44)

4. Disease Isn’t Always Preventable—But Informed Decisions Matter

• Both hosts emphasize:
  • Health doesn’t guarantee safety; cancer can strike anyone.
  • The importance of not reacting out of fear, but striving for informed, supported choices. “Nine times out of ten, most of us have time to make informed decisions after research.” — Jen (18:24)
  • Community support and multiple opinions are invaluable.

5. Lifestyle Changes, Stress, and Mindset

• Diet and Control:

  • Both women referenced shifting to “whole food” focus post-diagnosis.

    “I eat mostly whole food, plant based ... because that's what minimizes the fear for me. That's what makes me feel calm.” — Jen (34:04)

  • Dr. Amie admits she wasn’t perfect in diet/lifestyle prior to diagnosis, despite her expertise (32:16).

• Stress as a Key Factor:

  • Both hosts highlight stress as a major “cancer trigger,” citing their own experiences and genetic predispositions to not “feel” stress while it still impacts their bodies (35:47, 36:28).

    “You literally have a gene that ... those stressors that are affecting your nervous system and ... the cells of your body, you're not even aware that they're affecting it because you don't feel stress.” — Amie’s DNA consultant advice (36:23)

6. Finding Balance: Avoiding Orthorexia

• Self-care vs. Self-care Guilt:
  • Both acknowledge feeling guilty about not doing “enough” biohacks or protocols post-cancer (37:13).
  • Over-focusing on cancer recovery can become unhealthy—a “cancer bubble” and even orthorexia (39:58):

    “It became a little bit unhealthy ... almost orthorexic ... fearing everything. It's so unhealthy.” — Jen (40:03)

  • Importance of balance: choosing a few parasympathetic activities (e.g., sauna, red light, brief meditations) that genuinely bring peace, not overwhelm.

7. Biohacks and Budget-Friendly Alternatives

• Favorite Biohacks:

  • Both love red light therapy and infrared saunas for relaxation and possible cellular benefits (45:13–47:41).
  • Hyperbaric oxygen (HBOT) is great but may be impractical due to cost and size (47:41).
  • Exercise with oxygen therapy (EWOT) is a more accessible alternative (47:52).

• Low-cost Options:

  • Nicotine patches, aspirin, ivermectin, fenbendazole, and chlorine dioxide:

    “So that's cheap and easy. A nice little 7mg nicotine patch ... and if it doesn't do anything, it's not hurting anything.” — Amie (49:30)

  • Aspirin and certain supplements also show promise, supported by Dr. Amie’s Datar test results (51:42–56:08).

8. Hormones and HRT After Cancer

• The Dilemma:

  • Both had hormone-positive cancers and faced the dilemma of HRT post-treatment.
  • Jen: Previously used synthetic progesterone and testosterone pellets; stopped after diagnosis due to fear.
  • Dr. Amie: Went off HRT after diagnosis but symptoms were intolerable; with expert consults and testing, she returned to high-dose bioidentical estrogen, doubling down on estrogen detox regimens (58:48–61:46).

• Individualized Approach:

  • Both stress HRT is a personal, multifactorial decision and must be tailored to each woman’s needs, risk factors, and symptom management—no shaming allowed for either choice.

    “Both options are okay. Both decisions are okay.” — Dr. Amie (64:23)

• Special Testing:

  • Dutch test for hormone metabolism pathways (62:49).
  • Datar test for circulating tumor cells and treatment sensitivities (51:42).

9. Emotional Recovery and Moving Forward

• Acceptance and Community:
  • Cancer’s root cause is often unknowable; blame is unhelpful (65:03).
  • Support, empathy, and refusing to hide one’s story is empowering.

    “I never thought to myself, ooh I’m going to keep this a secret so as not to be judged. You can't point a finger.” — Dr. Amie (65:03)

  • Advice: “Step outside of your cancer bubble. Go live your life. Don’t live in fear. Do some things to calm yourself ... but you don’t have to do it all. Just do what feels right to you.” — Jen (66:41)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On health immunity myth:
  “We're expected to have this, this top level of health where nothing ... can touch us. That's so far from the truth. ... Who thinks that cancer can't touch them?”
  — Dr. Amie (09:15)

• On alternative therapies vs. surgery:
  “Right now you have the cancer that is contained ... you don't get that container out ... and it spreads ... that's a whole different animal.”
  — Dr. Amie (16:30)

• On fear-driven decisions:
  “So many people ... get diagnosed, they're so consumed with fear ... they're making these quick decisions that they're going back on.”
  — Jen (18:24)

• Jen’s “1111” intuition moment:
  “For about four months ... I kept seeing the number 1111 ... pay attention to your thoughts ... Was I late on a mammogram?”
  — Jen (25:44)

• On orthorexic recovery:
  “But it also became unhealthy. ... I would say orthorexic almost because I was even fearful of food and what I was putting into my body ... we cannot live in a world where we're completely fearing everything.”
  — Jen (40:03)

• On simplifying stress management:
  “If you can walk outside, cool. If not, ... look at something five feet in front of you and just focus on that. ... That literally resets your nervous system.”
  — Dr. Amie (37:13)

• On personalized HRT after cancer:
  “Both options are okay. Both decisions are okay.”
  — Dr. Amie (64:23)

• On the unknowable cause and ending stigma:
  “There is no way to know what causes cancer. ... You can't point a finger.”
  — Dr. Amie (65:03)

Timestamps for Important Segments

| Time | Topic | |------------|-------------------------------------------------------------------| | 07:42 | Jen introduces discussion—on being diagnosed as health professionals | | 09:59 | Amie’s cancer diagnosis journey begins | | 13:45 | Discovery of atypical cells, refusal of immediate hysterectomy | | 16:30 | Friend’s key analogy: “Cancer in a container” | | 20:47 | Jen’s husband’s brain cancer story | | 23:30 | Jen’s own breast cancer journey, surgery, and aftermath | | 25:29 | Jen’s intuition and “1111” story about cancer detection | | 32:16 | Amie on not being “perfect”—a human health expert | | 34:03 | Dietary/lifestyle changes post-diagnosis | | 35:47 | Stress and genetic predispositions to not “feel” stress | | 37:13 | Self-care guilt and simplifying stress reduction | | 39:58 | Overdoing recovery, orthorexia, and finding balance | | 45:13–47:41| Their favorite and most-used biohacks | | 48:51 | Budget-friendly cancer support hacks (nicotine patches, aspirin, etc.)| | 51:42 | Datar test and customizing post-cancer self-care | | 58:48 | Deep dive: HRT after hormone-positive cancer | | 62:49 | Dutch testing and environmental toxin reduction | | 65:03 | Concluding thoughts on empowerment, stigma, and unknowable causes|

Episode Takeaways

• Cancer does not discriminate—health and wellness practitioners are not immune, and openness benefits the community.
• Don’t make fear-based decisions. Take your time, seek second and third opinions, and trust your path.
• There’s no one-size-fits-all approach to cancer recovery, HRT, self-care, or alternative therapies—individual contexts, testing, and preferences matter.
• Self-care shouldn’t feel like a second job, and finding peace is as important as finding protocols.
• Support, empathy, and authenticity—both within medical frameworks and peer communities—are crucial for healing.

For links to specific resources, test information, and referenced supplements, check the episode show notes.

Both Dr. Amie and Jen are available for further questions in their respective communities.