The Thyroid Fixer Podcast – Episode 565 Summary
Title: Cancer, Controversy and Hope Uncovered: What Works and What Doesn't, Part 2
Host: Dr. Amie Hornaman
Guest: Dr. Doneese Worden
Date: September 30, 2025
Episode Overview
This episode continues a candid and deeply informative discussion between Dr. Amie Hornaman and Dr. Doneese Worden on integrative, metabolic, and alternative cancer therapies. Picking up from Part 1, they break down the flood of controversial, popular, and promising options that are suggested to cancer patients, focusing on what’s evidence-backed, what’s dubious, and how to discern the right path. The conversation tackles patient agency, navigating conflicting medical opinions, and highlights the hope and limits of various treatments—with Dr. Worden drawing on direct clinical experience and Dr. Hornaman’s own cancer journey.
Key Discussion Points and Insights
1. Patient Agency and Individualized Treatment
- Theme: The importance of patients making informed and autonomous decisions about their health and therapies, especially with hormone use and cancer risk.
- “Every decision for your health should be yours...my role as a physician is to make sure you’re really educated to make that decision...use both intuition and science.” (Dr. Worden, 09:39)
- Even two expert physicians can disagree; patient understanding and choice are pivotal.
2. Hormones and Cancer: The Nuance
- Brief revisit on Dr. Hornaman’s personal struggle: reducing hormones post-cancer diagnosis led to severe menopausal symptoms, highlighting the real-world quality of life vs. cancer risk debate.
- Discussion of cancer markers (ER-positive/negative, etc.) and why age and hormones interact differently (12:28).
- Younger people’s faster cellular repair explains why surging hormones don’t always lead to cancer, but genetics (BRCA, Lynch syndrome) dramatically alter risk profile (12:33–15:22).
3. Alternative and Emerging Therapies: Evidence vs. Hype
Red Light Therapy (16:07)
- Has evidence for pain and skin health, but caution advised with cancer due to angiogenesis (new blood vessel creation)—potentially feeding tumors.
- “We don’t know enough yet...but what we do know is it causes angiogenesis. Anything that creates new blood vessels could be suspect.” (Dr. Worden, 16:28)
Hydrogen & Ozone Therapy (18:42)
- Hydrogen: Little to no supporting data, even after decades of hype (18:51).
- Ozone: May reduce viral load (Epstein-Barr, CMV) but no clear anti-cancer evidence; real risks exist with IV therapies (20:11–22:31).
Ivermectin & Fenbendazole (“Fenben”) (22:35)
- Some pre-clinical and emerging clinical data, but hepatotoxicity (liver risk) noted. Advocated for pulsed (3 days on, 4 days off) approaches, not chronic use.
- “If people have liver enzymes that are a problem...you gotta be very careful…liver shut down. So again, be careful with these things. Know what you’re doing.” (Dr. Worden, 22:35–25:10)
- Not everyone has parasites—don’t jump on “Fenben” or antiparasitic regimens indiscriminately!
Parasites and Cancer (26:07)
- Myths debunked: Not all (or most) people have parasites, and the microscopy used to “diagnose” this is often misapplied.
- “It’s rare, if ever, that you would actually be able to see a parasite in blood under a microscope...It’s incorrect, Amy. There’s no other way to say it." (Dr. Worden, 28:36)
Chlorine Dioxide (29:39)
- Theoretical potential, but high toxicity to healthy cells and the microbiome; not recommended outside research settings due to lacking evidence and substantial risks.
Mistletoe (33:49)
- Widely used in Europe, some early trial support (not a miracle but may modestly shrink tumors).
- Many mistletoe types exist; risk of using the wrong preparation—requires expert oversight.
4. D.A.T.R. (Datar) Testing for Personalized Therapy (35:51)
- What is it? A liquid biopsy that tests patient’s blood/cancer cells against a panel of standard and repurposed agents (metformin, doxycycline, mistletoe, statins, etc.) to see which induce the highest tumor cell death in vitro (in dish).
- “Instead of just read the latest research and then you put everybody on all these therapies...at least this way I’ve got something to go on…these are good data to have.” (Dr. Worden, 38:25–39:53)
- Practical use: Prioritizes therapies most likely to work, reduces “kitchen sink” excess.
- Caveats: Lab response ≠ automatic clinical success; complex bodies may react differently.
5. Repurposed Drugs and Cancer Metabolism
- Statins, doxycycline, metformin, vitamin C, and others have roles in inhibiting tumor growth, sometimes via nontraditional mechanisms (disrupting metabolism or stem cell pathways).
- Cancer is “smart”—adaptive; hence alternating or “pulsing" therapies (press-pulse) (25:10–46:16).
6. Innovative, Unapproved/New-Old Therapies
- Example: 3-bromo-pyruvate, a molecule acting as a “Trojan horse” to kill cancer cells.
- Major limitation: funding and inability to patent natural substances block large-scale trials and approval.
7. The Universal Message: Empowerment, Caution, and Hope
- Take time post-diagnosis to understand and find your treatment team. Don’t be rushed by fear or external opinions.
- “If you or a loved one are diagnosed with cancer, you take some moments…get yourself into the mindset so you feel you’re in control of your destiny instead of feeling helpless.” (Dr. Worden, 52:52)
- Focus on therapies that are:
- Supported by science and experience
- Personalized to your biology
- Balance reward vs. risk, cost, and practicality
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
-
On Patient Decision-Making:
“Every decision for your health should be yours. Use both intuition and science...It’s great because how many people hear their physicians talk with each other, even if they disagree, and say, okay, let’s ask the patient—what do they want?”
(Dr. Worden, 09:39–10:49) -
On Misinformation:
“Not everybody has parasites…It’s rare, if ever, that you would actually be able to see a parasite in blood under a microscope…It’s incorrect, Amy. There’s no other way to say it.”
(Dr. Worden, 26:07–28:45) -
On Cancer’s Complexity:
“I’m not sure we’re ever going to find one cure. Because cancer is multifaceted. That’s why we’ve got to hit it with different things.”
(Dr. Worden, 28:58) -
On D.A.T.R. Test Utility:
“At least this way, I’ve got something to go on…These are good data to have. But can I say that exact amount will happen inside your body? No, because we’re complex. But it gives me something…”
(Dr. Worden, 39:53) -
On Systemic Barriers to New Cancer Therapies:
“Who’s going to put in a billion dollars to study something they can’t patent?...Cancer’s big money. The problem is, you just look at the numbers—it’s not working…We believe because we quit looking at mitochondrial health.”
(Dr. Worden, 50:47) -
On First Steps After a Diagnosis:
“Take some moments to…get yourself into the mindset so you feel somewhat in control of your destiny instead of feeling helpless…Find your team around you that you trust…Your job is not to make others comfortable. Your job is to focus on you.”
(Dr. Worden, 52:52–54:32)
Timestamps for Important Segments
| Time | Segment / Discussion | |-----------|---------------------------------------------------| | 09:39 | Empowering patients, hormone therapy choices | | 12:28 | Young patients, hormones & cancer risk, genetics | | 16:07 | Red light therapy – science vs. safety | | 18:42 | Hydrogen/ozone therapy discussion | | 22:35 | Fenbendazole, Ivermectin, pulsing approach | | 26:07 | Parasite myths and darkfield microscopy | | 29:39 | Chlorine dioxide – risks and rationale | | 33:49 | Mistletoe as therapy; types/risks | | 35:51 | D.A.T.R. (liquid biopsy) testing explained | | 46:16 | Cancer’s ability to “outsmart” therapies | | 49:07 | Systemic/financial barriers to new cancer cures | | 52:52 | Coping and empowerment after diagnosis |
Closing Messages
Dr. Worden: “Find your trusted team, focus on strengthening your immune system, take time to choose wisely, and don’t let others’ worries sideline your own well-being. Cancer care is multi-pronged—and so is hope.” (52:52–54:32)
Dr. Hornaman: Urges listeners to share the episode, empower patients and families, and promises to continue these enlightening and critical discussions.
How to Connect
- Dr. Doneese Worden: doctorworden-rworen.com | 480-588-2233 | info@rworen.com
- Dr. Amie Hornaman: dramiehornaman.com
If you or a loved one is navigating cancer, this episode offers hope, clarity, and a much-needed call for patient-centered, evidence-guided decision-making.