Episode Overview

Title: Controversial: Can You Cure Your Pain or Chronic Disease with Your Mind? Explore the Power of TMS
Host: Dr. Amie Hornaman
Guest: Daniel Brown
Date: November 4, 2025

This episode of The Thyroid Fixer delves into the controversial and thought-provoking idea that chronic pain—and even chronic diseases—may be rooted more in our minds and emotions than in physical structures or injuries. Dr. Amie Hornaman is joined by Daniel Brown, a real estate investor and self-described health enthusiast who overcame his own incurable autoimmune pain syndrome by applying the principles of TMS (Tension Myoneural Syndrome), originally popularized by Dr. John Sarno. Together, they explore the science, resistance, and transformative stories behind the mind-body connection in chronic illness.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Dr. Amie’s Journey & Introduction to TMS

• Dr. Amie shares how her cancer diagnosis prompted a flood of well-meaning advice—but Daniel’s approach stood out:

  "He was offering something a little bit different... This is not just trauma, and you heal your trauma and poof, your cancer goes away. No, no, no. That's not what Dan was saying." (07:06)

• Back pain became a persistent symptom for her post-cancer, leading her to experiment with Daniel’s TMS suggestions, resulting in noticeable, if intermittent, improvement.

2. Daniel Brown’s Background & Health Philosophy

• Daniel is not in the health business—his “day job” is in real estate. His health journey began as a mainstream fitness and nutrition follower, later embracing a contrarian approach:

  "If I just do the exact opposite of all mainstream health advice, I end up getting really healthy... It shouldn't be that ridiculous, but it actually is that ridiculous." (15:39)

• Achieved remarkable health but then developed an "incurable" autoimmune disease, complex regional pain syndrome (CRPS, “the suicide disease"), typically considered uncurable.

3. Discovery of Dr. John Sarno’s Work

• Daniel stumbled upon Dr. Sarno’s books, which propose that chronic pain is often a physical manifestation of deeply-held, often unconscious, emotions or traumas.
• Sarno observed that many people with visible injuries or abnormalities (on X-rays, MRIs) have no pain, while others with similar findings suffer intensely:

  "The pattern was that nearly all of these people were holding onto, whether they knew it or not... some kind of pain, emotion, trauma, rage, whatever you want to call it..." (00:00, 18:01)

• Daniel recounted a pivotal personal moment after reading Sarno:

  “I look at the mirror in the gym and look back at my ankle, and I just politely said... fuck off. And it stopped... that’s three years ago... that was it. Never came back.” (24:17)

4. TMS: How It Works & Faith in Simplicity

• TMS stands for Tension Myoneural Syndrome (or Mind Body Syndrome), the concept that the unconscious mind diverts attention from psychological distress by creating physical symptoms.
• Dr. Sarno’s surprising clinical finding: up to 80% of patients had dramatic improvement simply by consistently absorbing the TMS message—often just by reading his books or attending seminars:

  “8 out of 10 people... would actually remove their symptoms without even knowing what the thing was that happened when they were five years old.” (33:26)

5. The Role of Unconscious Belief & Diagnoses

• Daniel points out that having a “diagnosis” can cement the belief that pain is a fixed physical problem, which itself contributes to the perpetuation of symptoms:

  “A diagnosis in itself creates the problem... It puts things in a box... If the same things prevent or fix each thing, doesn't that mean that each thing is just a symptom?” (45:02)

• Both hosts emphasize that the core causes of chronic illness and pain are usually a combination of lifestyle factors (diet, movement, exposure to toxins, etc.) and emotional factors (conscious and, especially, unconscious emotions).

6. Internal Dialogue, Placebo/Nocebo, and the Power of Mindset

• The mind’s expectations—positive or negative—profoundly influence symptoms:

  “If you believe you’re the lose your glasses person, you don’t lose your glasses, that is dangerous, that's unbalanced. So I have to create the balance for you. Therefore, the lady he refers to in the book, I believe I'm going to die. Your unconscious goes, okay, I can't discern for you... that’s what happens.” (52:30)

• The negative “nocebo” effect and positive placebo effect both prove that belief shapes outcome, often at a biological level.

7. How to Start: Resources & Advice

• Dr. Amie and Daniel recommend starting with Dr. Sarno’s The Mind-Body Prescription (“the OG”, as Amie says) and then reading Steve Ozanich’s works—especially his shorter book, which summarizes Sarno’s key lessons.

  “You literally just have to read or listen to a book multiple times for this to set in.” (39:36)

• Daniel’s advice: No need to dig up every trauma for initial relief—just absorbing the core ideas can often trigger a breakthrough.
• Beware of programs and practitioners selling elaborate protocols for profit:

  “You will run across [TMS] in the health and wellness space where you literally have to listen to a book… That just blows you away…” (58:21)

8. Self-Responsibility, Skepticism, and Simplifying Health

• The approach is both radical and, in practice, “simple”—no special equipment or years of therapy necessary, just a willingness to question, reflect, and persist in re-learning about your pain.
• However, Daniel and Dr. Amie both stress that lifestyle and physiological factors matter too; TMS is not a replacement for all physical health interventions.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Dr. Amie Hornaman

  "What we're going to talk about today is probably going to rattle your mind a little bit. You're going to be taken aback... You might have to listen to this a few times." (07:42) "You don't have to know and you don't have to go into psychotherapy." (36:06) "If this can shift you, it can shift you. So if you keep an open mind, it will shift you.” (60:41)

• Daniel Brown

  "If I just do the exact opposite of all mainstream health advice, I end up getting really healthy.” (15:44)
  "My unconscious is way smarter than me. It had one job to do. Its job was to protect me... so it will put [pain] somewhere that makes sense, that's believable." (43:06)
  "8 out of 10 people like me with my CRPS would actually remove their symptoms without even knowing what the thing was that happened when they were five years old..." (33:26)
  "It's the same with all of it... Simplify." (59:51)

Important Timestamps

• Intro to TMS & Daniel’s Story: — [06:43–12:16]
• Complex Regional Pain Syndrome explained: [18:34–19:31]
• Discovery & Explanation of Sarno’s Ideas: [19:34–26:13]
• Daniel’s Breakthrough with TMS: [24:17–26:13]
• Addressing the Skeptic’s “But I have a diagnosis…”: [28:19–29:17]
• Addressing the logic voice, placebo, and nocebo: [29:17–32:36], [49:13–52:26]
• Dr. Amie’s personal experience with back pain and resistance: [38:08–42:16]
• Diagnoses as a Double-Edged Sword: [44:57–49:13]
• How to Practice TMS / Further Reading: [55:51–59:03]
• Where to Find Daniel Brown: [61:49–62:55]

Resources & Further Exploration

• Books
  • The Mind-Body Prescription – Dr. John Sarno
  • Healing Back Pain – Dr. John Sarno
  • The Great Pain Deception – Steve Ozanich
  • Top 10 Learnings of Sarno (short book) – Steve Ozanich
• Online
  • Daniel’s Instagram: @the_not_a_doc
  • TMS Facebook groups, podcasts, discussion forums (vet for quality!)
• Podcast Episode Shownotes

Summary & Takeaways

• TMS is a radical but clinically tested approach: Many chronic pain or disease symptoms may originate from the unconscious mind’s effort to distract/protect you from deeper emotional pain.
• You don’t always have to uncover trauma to heal: For many, just deeply believing in the mind-body connection and breaking the hold of a diagnosis can bring significant relief.
• Your beliefs—positive and negative—can manifest physically: Managing your self-talk and questioning your assumptions is critical.
• Lifestyle still matters: Physical health habits and addressing underlying trauma – not just one or the other – yield best results.
• Resources are accessible and inexpensive: Start with reading the recommended books; no costly programs or years of therapy needed for most.

If this episode resonates, Dr. Amie urges you to re-listen, explore the recommended books, and keep an open mind to the healing potential within.