595. Controversial Episode: What Social Media Has Wrong About Weight Loss Right Now

Summary

Podcast Summary – The Thyroid Fixer, Ep. 595

Episode Title: Controversial Episode: What Social Media Has Wrong About Weight Loss Right Now
Host: Dr. Amie Hornaman
Guest: Natalie Jill
Date: January 13, 2026

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Main Theme and Purpose

In this episode, Dr. Amie Hornaman and guest Natalie Jill tackle the overwhelming confusion and misinformation circulating on social media about weight loss—especially as it relates to thyroid health and women in midlife. They revisit how weight loss dogma has evolved over the decades, dissect current fads, and urge women to define their own health goals outside of trends, extremes, or AI-generated ideals. Both draw on their extensive backgrounds and personal journeys to empower listeners with clarity, science, and balanced approaches they can actually use.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The “Villain and Savior” Cycle in Diet Culture

• Overview: Each decade invents a new dietary villain (fat, carbs, sugar) and magic savior (low-fat, keto, GLPs).
• Quote: "Every era, it's: this thing is evil, this is the savior. Extreme beats science every time in terms of attention." – Natalie Jill (08:35)
• Social media and AI amplify extremes, creating confusion and unattainable standards.
• Real people's testimonies for extreme diets ("I did carnivore for a year!") are mistaken as universal truth.

2. Information Overload & Comparison Trap

• AI and filters create impossible beauty standards even real people can't reach.
• Social algorithms reward trending, polarizing content, not necessarily science.
• Quote: "Otherwise, you will continually get swayed by the perfect AI model or the filtered influencer that looks amazing. And you'll go, I should want that now." – Natalie Jill (00:00 / 17:14)

3. Defining Your Own Health Goals

• Listeners are urged to ask: What do I want for myself—apart from trends and social media?
• Memorable segment: Natalie’s story about her friend’s house with lots of stairs—an intentional choice for lifelong fitness. (14:32 – 16:31)
• Quote: “Get clear on that first. So that can overpower anything else that's going to come into you.” – Natalie Jill (17:14)
• The importance of focusing on functional aging and quality of life over chasing every trend.

4. Unpacking Extreme Diet Trends

a. Carnivore Diet

• Extremes like “all vegetables are bad” are debunked; elimination diets may help temporarily, but are not sustainable.
• Loss of plant phytonutrients, fiber, and polyphenols can be detrimental in the long term.
• “You remove the trigger, but how are we guarding against all those other things?” – Natalie Jill (23:38)
• Reality check: Even strict “carnivores” often eat other foods, but social personas won’t admit it (25:45).

b. Carbs

• Demonizing all carbs is misguided. “No carb” is dangerous; “low carb” can have a place, especially short-term for health conditions.
• Not all carbs are equal—difference between candy, grains, fruits, veggies.
• Carbs provide fiber for gut and hormonal health, and glucose for brain function (28:56 – 31:58).
• “Good equals no carbs. That's ingrained in their mind… that's wrong thinking.” – Dr. Amie (36:01)
• Fiber is essential, especially for women on hormone therapy for estrogen detoxification (36:59).

c. High Protein / Protein Extremes

• The body can only use so much; excess simply becomes excess calories.
• Most women do not need 150–200g protein a day.
• Adjust intake based on individual situation and goals (muscle gain, fat loss, age, etc.).
• “It's not as simple as just do that… be a detective.” – Natalie Jill (46:28)

5. Supplements, Stimulants, and Pharmaceuticals for Weight Loss

a. Stimulants & Appetite Suppressants (Past & Current)

• Past trends: fen phen, Adderall, phentermine, ephedra.
• Now, even nicotine patches are being misused for weight loss.
• Stimulants have inevitable rebound effects—metabolic crashes and adrenal exhaustion.
• “You take something that's a Federin based, you're taking an off label ADHD medicine… there is always a rebound effect.” – Natalie Jill (48:08)

b. Nicotine (for Cancer, Weight, Stimulation)

• Dr. Amie uses low-dose nicotine for cancer prevention, not weight loss.
• Addiction, dependency, and long-term safety are concerns.
• It's not “nicotine plant = bad,” it’s what is added/processed, like cigarettes (50:56 – 51:43).

c. GLP-1 Agonists (Ozempic, Wegovy, etc.)

• Potential game changer for obesity, diabetes, inflammation—when medically appropriate.
• Problems:
  • Doses only available in one-size-fits-all pens.
  • Widespread off-label use for vanity, not disease.
  • Social media “microdosing” is often just full-dose rebranded.
  • Abuse risk: Used for extreme appetite suppression, fueling eating disorders.
  • Failing to change habits → rebound weight gain after stopping.
• “What if, literally, this is groundbreaking science that could turn off obesity?” – Natalie Jill (57:00)
• Balance: GLPs should be accessible and properly dosed/monitored with education.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On defining your own health goal:

  “Get clear on that first. So that can overpower anything else…Otherwise you will continually get swayed by the perfect AI model or the filtered influencer that looks amazing.”
  — Natalie Jill (17:14)

• On extreme diets:

  "Just because it worked for this person…does not make that a universal truth."
  — Natalie Jill (19:42)

• On carnivore claims:

  "When I hear someone say vegetables will kill you, do you understand how ridiculous you sound?"
  — Natalie Jill (24:09)

• On comparing ourselves to influencers:

  “Look at how they look and then decide if you really want that message… when you see an influencer that looks ten years older than they are, maybe take their advice with a grain of salt.”
  — Dr. Amie (27:12)

• On proper carbohydrate choices:

  "Carbs, I break down into three different categories … Not ideal, better and best."
  — Natalie Jill (29:10)

• On GLP misuse and societal impact:

  “Now people are microdosing full, regular, standard dosing amounts and they're calling it microdosing to make themselves feel better. And they are losing muscle and they're actually…starting to lose desire for life.”
  — Dr. Amie (61:25)

• On GLPs in health care:

  “I am not against them at all. I'm for education around them…so what's the smallest amount you could use to actually get the result you're after?”
  — Natalie Jill (60:52)

• On the root of weight loss confusion:

  "We're asking the wrong questions… there's too many questions I have there."
  — Natalie Jill (64:45)

• On empowerment & individualization:

  “What works for me is not exactly what works for Amy. We're all very unique and we have to get to a place where we're in a really great spot to be able to evaluate where these tweaks are making a difference in our bodies.”
  — Natalie Jill (46:28)

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Key Timestamps

• 00:00–06:26 – Setting the stage: history of weight loss trends & their psychological impact
• 09:39–12:40 – The rise of social media/AI confusion; “villain & savior” cycle
• 14:32–18:57 – The need to define individual health/fitness goals; resisting comparison
• 19:29–26:57 – Debunking carnivore and “vegetables are bad” dogma
• 27:12–31:58 – Protein moderation, carb classification, and calorie myths
• 36:59–38:15 – Fiber, insulin, “no carb” dangers
• 41:08–47:09 – Individualizing protein needs; context matters
• 47:48–56:59 – Stimulant/ephedra/fen phen/nicotine abuse & repercussions
• 57:00–65:57 – GLP-1 agonists: promise, pitfalls, and practical advice
• 66:15–67:14 – Dangers of extreme appetite suppression and eating disorders
• 68:26–72:18 – Q&A session announcement and personalized support

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Conclusion (In Their Words & Tone)

The path to real health isn’t just about following the latest influencer, eliminating another whole food group, or succumbing to extreme pharmaceutical solutions. As Natalie Jill and Dr. Amie passionately argue, defining your own priorities, staying curious, cutting through noise, and approaching new trends with a healthy dose of skepticism, personalization, and science—this is where real transformation happens.

As Amie says in closing:

"Just clear the confusion—let's get people to their real goals."
(71:17)

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For listeners wanting personalized clarity, a special interactive Zoom Q&A is announced for January 20, 2026—check episode notes for registration details.

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Transcript

[A]

What is going to be critical is for you, as a midlife woman, listening to know and think, what do I actually want for myself? And you've got to decide this off of social media, off of tv. You have to get clear on that first. So that can overpower anything else that's going to come into you. Otherwise, you will continually get swayed by the perfect AI model or the filtered influencer that looks amazing. And you'll go, I should want that now.

[B]

Welcome to the new and completely reimagined Thyroid Fixer podcast, a podcast that refuses to sound like every other health show out there. We're here to disrupt this entire space, and now you are part of that disruption. If you're listening right now, it's because something inside you finally said, I'm done being ignored. And I'm here to tell you good. Because this is where everything changes for you. This is where you say, no more. No more being dismissed by your doctor. No more being told your lives are normal. No more recycled medical advice. No more recycled biohacking advice. No more being told to accept what you know isn't right here. You'll get truth. You'll get clarity. You'll get information you can actually use tools, strategy and guidance you can apply right now to take back your energy, your hormones, your metabolism and your life. Every episode will give you something new, something that moves you forward, something that reminds you that you were never the problem, the system was. This is the Thyroid Fixer podcast. This is your turning point. This is where you rise.

[A]

Get ready.

[B]

We're about to disrupt everything you thought you knew about thyroid and hormone health.

[A]

Let's go.

[B]

If your labs are normal, but you're exhausted, you're foggy, gaining weight, or you just don't feel like yourself, listen to me. Most women are told they're fine based on one number. Tsh. No context, no explanation from your doctor, no real plan. If you've been listening to me for a while, you know that I am Dr. Amy, the thyroid Fixer. And I have reviewed tens of thousands of labs and I can tell you this. Most people don't actually understand what their labs are saying. That's why we created the Fixer Lab Test plus consult. You will get comprehensive thyroid and hormone testing plus a one on one consult where we explain exactly what's happening in your body.

[A]

Body.

[B]

This isn't treatment. It's clarity. We help you identify whether there's a real problem, what's actually tied to your symptoms, and what your next best step should be. So if you're Done being dismissed and ready for answers. You are done begging your doctor for labs that they don't even know how to interpret once they come back. Book the Fixer Lab test plus consult now. Click the link below or go to Fixer Power lab.com that's F I x e r p r l a b dot com and order your test book. Your call. Today you have questions about your thyroid, about your labs, what they mean. What about your hormones? What about insulin? Why are you gaining weight? Why are you so tired? Why are you losing your hair? Why won't my doctor listen to me? Why won't my doctor test these things? All of these questions that you have running around in your brain and you know that if you just had the answers that that could push you over the edge into optimal health, that you could be that badass human that you are meant to be. Well, I got you covered there because I am going live every single week in the just fix your thyroid Facebook group. That is my Facebook group, a beautiful community just filled with amazing people where I am in there, my nurse practitioners are in there, my health coaches are in there. There are patients in there that have been with me for so long, they're experts in their own right, and they answer just the way that I would. So we have you completely covered in this group. So not only can you post your question every single day, every single hour, if you want, you can mark your calendars for our weekly live Q and A sessions where you get to ask your question to me and I'm going to answer it live on air. And not only that, we are doing product giveaways. We're doing working with our team giveaways. You're going to want to be in there and actually be live on that call. If you're at work going in the closet, just shut the door. Take minutes for yourself, Take a half an hour for yourself. Take an hour for yourself so that you can get the information that you need to bring yourself into optimization land where you're not looking sideways at a brownie and gaining weight at the same time, where you can feel amazing every single day. Because that's my goal for you. You know that I love, love, love to answer your questions and this is the place where you can get them answered live. I can't even tell you how excited I am for this episode because it's one of those topics that we need to get out now before it spirals and continues to get worse. What I'm talking about are weight loss trends. Now, my guest today Many of you know she's been on before.

[A]

You love her.

[B]

Natalie Jill. And this is going to be a fantastic conversation because this is based off of a podcast episode that she just did that I listened to and I reached out to her and I said, oh my gosh, Natalie, we need, we.

[A]

Need to do this.

[B]

We need to have the same conversation for my audience because we both grew up in the same time of Skinny is in and SnackWell Cookies and Tab and all the things that we're going to bring up today. But also looking to the now and looking to the future and seeing women almost caught in this weight loss spiral that I feel like we need to save them from because there's so much information out there. Natalie, I know you know this because you hear from your community. There's so much information out there and we're starting to kind of tip into the danger zone of becoming very, very unhealthy and doing detrimental things that can leave a mark on our bodies, to our bodies. So with that, thank you for coming on the show and I'm, I'm incredibly.

[A]

Pumped for today's talk. Yeah, I, I love this discussion. We have such a interesting group. When you speak to midlife women specifically about weight loss and around fat loss, because it's not our first rodeo, right? We been through all of the trends and we've seen that every single decade has like its own madness around it. It's, it's got its own trend, its own new diet, its theme. And I mean, I know you remember back in my gosh, even if you think back to the 70s, I mean that was the low fat craze, remember? That was a whole big, a whole big thing. And then aerobics and jazzercise and women encouraged to just shrink. It was never about muscle then. It was always about just shrinking. And then you go the next decade, even the 80s, remember snack wells and thinking you could have as many as you wanted. The fat free craze continued. And then Jane Fonda was kind of the workout icon at the time. And I remember even then the message was still thinner, was better. It was always the cinched waist and how do we get thinner? And that's when metabolism crashes. I think we first started seeing them really impact people. That was in the 80s. And then in the 90s, my gosh, it just gets, keeps going. You know, you get the slim fast, the diet pills. That's when fen phen was released. And then we joked and called it heroin chic because that's really what it was. It was like, how do we get super, super, super skinny? But that's when we first started seeing this, like massive metabolic damage, widespread. I know you remember Amy from just even high school. What was going on with all of this for sure.

[B]

I mean, I, I remember doing aerobics in my living room because I just wanted to be skinny, right? And everything was fat free. And actually to the detriment of an overload of carbohydrates where everything was fat free. I remember eating bowls of white rice with milk and cinnamon. That was like my mom's like, little sweet treat for me. But I thought, oh, this is okay because it's fat free. Or the snack oil cookies because it's fat free. Well, now, and I know we're going to talk about this today, but we flipped to the other end of the spectrum where carbs are the enemy, they're the villain. Now we're, now we're eating nothing but meat. And it's like, wait a minute, isn't there a happy medium somewhere where we can remain healthy and fit whatever that definition is at the same time?

[A]

So it's interesting because you all listening are probably wondering, like, what has changed? What's different? And what you actually should be asking is more, why does every single era create this villain? Like we create this villain and a savior, like every era, it's this thing is the evil thing and this is the savior. It's, this thing is bad, this thing will save. So we, we hear that. So we've been through all these things of sugar's bad, fat is bad. Whatever, we hear these things. And what's changed now is if you look at the widespread of information, so you look at the Internet and AI and social media, information is literally everywhere. And if you look at human psychology, we reward extreme over science. Always. You're going to reward extreme over science. So the most extreme topic's going to get the most traffic, the most downloads, the most whatever. So what happens is we've got these villain and the savior, and now you see this everywhere. And we get this really divisive confusion all over the place.

[B]

A lot of confusion, A lot of confusion. And people are saying things on social media they're not even true, they're not even based in science. But it's basically clickbait. And I don't know about your community. I mean, we share almost the same community. Women are believing it and they're questioning themselves. I mean, just the most ridiculous, ludicrous. I literally saw a video the other day where there was a guy in a Grocery store. And he said, and I quote, and you know, ice cream, it has cane sugar and that's good for the thyroid.

[A]

Whoa. What? Yeah, we've gotten really off track when you're saying that.

[B]

Right. That comes back to what you said about confusion. I'll say women, I mean, people in general, but mainly women, because it's us that care the most about our body shape and size and all of that. We are the ones that get sucked into the trends. What if they start believing all of these bizarre, crazy, ludicrous things on the Internet just because it's clickbait and then they do detrimental things to their own health.

[A]

So your question is, what if they start. And I think the question is, why does this continue? Because why it continues is a whole different topic. Because it's going to keep continuing. And the more we have AI, the more we have can have comparison. And what's happening is all these filters and AI is creating impossible standards. So even people at their peak amazingness, they. They're as fit as they can be. They look incredible. They're healthy, even they are not good enough compared to AI or compared to these flawless filtered versions of themselves. So what happens is we get even a deeper issue happening with comparison and a deeper amount of information overload. And this is just a vicious tornado that keeps. That keeps spiraling.

[B]

Yeah, that's true.

[A]

So we kind of start. You start there, and then you look at the addiction of trends that pop up. So you have addictive trends that pop up. You start seeing more in your algorithm about it. You start believing that that's the thing. And now you have a comparison thing because so and so is telling me I need to be carnivore or keto or vegan. And. And look at them and you don't even know if it's a real person. Is it an AI person? Is it an altered person? Like, what is it? And now we've got this fighting back and forth around what's the right thing? What. There's. It's just. It's worse than when we were in high school. In high school, you had your high school class, you had your friends, you had the snack rolls in the grocery store, and you have the TV commercials from the three channels that we watched. Now it's everything. And information becomes this crazy amount of information overload. The first question is, what do we do? And I'm saying we gotta first start with why is our culture more extreme than ever? And that is why. I mean, that's why that's happening first.

[B]

Well, And I think it all comes down to follow the money trail. So whether it's an influencer posting something extreme to get likes or clicks or shares or. It's the pharmaceutical industry. And I know we're going to talk about GLPs today, which I want to. It's the pharmaceutical industry looking to make a bug and pushing this magical. It's the magic pill. It's that magic pill that we wished for in the 80s that finally came out in a GLP. But is it really. And that's what we have to really break down and uncover.

[A]

Yes, yes, absolutely. So what I'd love to talk about with your audience, and I think we're, we're kind of headed in that direction is let's talk about what our stance actually is and where we look at these extremes because I think we all see why this confusion is happening. I mean, hope you, you're seeing why this confusion is happening. And then you take into fact that that's not going to go away. This desire to feel and look our best, like that's, that's just a thing, you know, every time we see a big push on the body positivity or this accept all it just is never gonna, it's not gonna work. And I'll tell you, it will never in our time, we're not gonna convince all women not to care about how they look. It's just not gonna happen, period. So whenever I hear like a new influencer try to be somebody's trying to be an influencer pop up with like enough of the people trying to look great and whatever, that's, it's not going to work because there's too many people that want to feel and look great. I mean that's just you. I mean you're in a better mood when you feel and look great. You're going to be more productive, you're going to work harder, you're going to do everything feels better, you're going to be in a better mood. So you can't convince people not to want that. That's the first thing we have to recognize.

[B]

Right. And, and it is, it's not healthy to carry around large amounts of excess body fat. I mean, that is the bottom line. But we have to find that middle ground where we're not going to the extreme and becoming Twiggy like in the 60s and 70s.

[A]

Exactly. So I would say, see, the very first thing I want those of you to lean in and listen to because this is important here is the very first thing we've got to do is actually decide what it is we actually want for ourselves outside of the opinions of others. So the first question I'm gonna encourage you listening to ask is, what do you actually want? Not what does Natalie, Jill, or Amy want for you? Not what does my husband want for me or my friend want. What do you want? And what's your personal goal? Like, I can share mine. And Amy, I'm sure you go share yours for me. I want to age optimally. I'm not afraid of aging. I want to age optimally. I want to be functionally fit. I want to have my energy. I want to have my focus. I want to feel confident. I don't want to be distracted by how I look or feel. I want to feel good. I want to be in a good mood, and I want to be able to do things here. As we're recording this, I'm at my friend's house in Ziwatnao, and she's. She's almost a decade older than me. And we have her house that they just did here has a tremendous amount of steps and hills. So to get from her house down to anywhere, they don't drive here, you have to go up and down a lot of steps and hills, and it's amazing. And we've been walking everywhere while we've been here, and it's not easy. It's challenging. You get a little winded after dinner, walking back up. But I love what she said. She said we intentionally chose this house as we're aging because we don't ever want to stop being active. I want to be able to do these stairs into my 70s, my 80s, my 90s. So for her, her decision is that, heck, she still trapezes. She trapezes in her 60s. So for me, when I say, what's my decision? I want to age optimally. I want to be as healthy as I can be. I want to enjoy my life. I want to not let how I look or feel interfere with my life. I don't know. What about you, Amy? How when you think like what you decide?

[B]

Well, I'm slightly scared of aging, but I'm going to fight it every step of the way. You know, that's what Botox is for.

[A]

But.

[B]

But outside of that, no, the same thing. And when we look at the blue zones, which are areas of the world where people are living into their 1/ hundreds, but they're not in nursing homes living to 100. They're not in a wheelchair living to 100. They're squatting. They're Standing, they're walking upstairs, they're gardening, they're active, they're still playing sports, they're still having sex. Like it's all the fun things of life that just extend out into what is called old age. But feeling really like we feel now, even 30, 40 years from now, I.

[A]

Mean, that's the goal. The first thing I want listeners to hear is, your decision doesn't have to be the same as me or Amy or my friends or it's your decision for you. But get clear on that first. Because what happens when you start scrolling and you start seeing the AI and you start. Then we start getting sueded into maybe I should want this. Or, you know, I was, I was actually scrolling this morning and I saw there was a TikTok video and the girl said, there's going to be a time in your 20s where you think you should tweeze your eyebrows super thin and you should listen and do it. And then she shows her beautiful eyebrows and then the next clip is her with the little pencil thin ones that we all did in the 90s, right? That we all work. Every woman in the from the 90s. We all cringe and go, no, don't put the wax away. Right? We don't put the tweeters away. Trends come and go. Same with bodies. I mean, I can tell you, when we were in high school, the trend was to not have a big butt. Remember, we covered our butts with sweatshirts and. Yeah, so it was covering that. And all of a sudden boobs were in. So everyone was getting implants then. Now it's literally flipped. It's like the butts are in. Unless we actually know what we want, we're going to keep falling victim to trends and phases and whatever. So. And this is a hard topic here, this is a whole episode. It could be a whole episode just about that specific topic. I know we have a lot to cover about diet, nutrition and all those things. We're going to get to that. But what is going to be critical is for you as a midlife woman, listening to know and think, what do I actually want for myself? And you've got to decide this off of social media, off of tv. You have to get clear on that first. So that can overpower anything else that's going to come into you. Otherwise you will continually get swayed by, by the perfect AI model or the filtered influencer that looks amazing. And you'll go, I should want that now.

[B]

I love that. And you just, you literally just gave peace to women everywhere and took pressure off of them to stop comparing themselves and to really look within and answer that question of what do you want? I think that's an amazing place to start.

[A]

Like even the perfect and the person you think is perfect and look, they're comparing themselves. So it's like, it's like a never ending chase. Right. Of perfection.

[B]

Absolutely. 100%, absolutely. Now I want to have some fun. I want to get into kind of the different trends.

[A]

Yeah, let's do it.

[B]

The different lies, the different trends, the, the addictive trends that keep popping up on social. And let's unpack it for people to clear some of this confusion. I love it.

[A]

So, I mean, I will start with my favorite one. Let's start with the vegetable one.

[B]

Vegetables. I love how you say vegetables won't kill you. That's fantastic.

[A]

To.

[B]

Yeah, break that down for us because there's, there's a big push for Carnivore right now.

[A]

Yeah. And what you're probably wondering is, are you missing something? Not doing Carnivore and why this is important? Is it also that it's again, that that fomo, am I, am I missing something out? But what you really want to be asking is where did Carnivore even come from and why do people think it makes sense and is it common sense to you? And the reason I say that is if you, first of all, if you look at a testimonial about any specific way, any extreme way, and I'll put Carnivore into extreme testimonial is different than a universal truth. So just because it worked for this person or these hundred people or these thousand or I don't care, million, whatever, there's a lot more people than that. Just because a personal thing works for a person does not make that a universal truth. So let's just unpack that a little bit. And I'm not dismissing that somebody can feel amazing on Carnivore and. Absolutely. But let's talk about why. For the most part, if you think of an elimination protocol, you don't feel well. And you know that every time you eat, you're more tired, more inflamed, more puffy. You're. If we eliminate things, just from a practical standpoint, we start eliminating things, we are going to feel better, right? We argue. Yes, you are. No matter what you're eating, you're eating whatever you're living off of eating, you start eliminating things, eventually you're gonna hit a point where you start feeling better because something in our food is creating a discomfort. So when you look at Carnivore, most foods that create any kind of discomfort, inflammation, joint pain, it's not likely coming from meat, from at least organic, natural, grass fed meat. It's not likely coming. Some people, again, nothing's black and white. Some people are having that. So when you have an unhealthy gut, for example, you've got gut dysbiosis, you've got leaky gut, you've got inflammation there. And we start adding vegetables, lots of fiber, we are going to have more discomfort. That's a given, we're gonna have more discomfort. The question is, do we just remove them? Does that fix the problem or do we figure out why we're actually getting that reaction to begin with? And this is what I want people to think about because just removing the trigger is a temporary solution. You remove a trigger, it's temporary. For example, you live in a house with mold, you've got mold everywhere. If you move out of the house, you feel better, but now mold pops up again in your new house, right? And you keep moving. When you look at elimination diets or removing things, you can remove a trigger, but you've gotta get your body to a place where the trigger is not a problem. Otherwise we create other issues. So just removing things is gonna create a longer term problem. So I'll give you another example. I recently went through a histamine thing. I had gotten sick in Bali. Amy, you knew very well cause I was texting with you a million times around it and I had to give up all histamine foods, but not for the rest of my life. I did it until the fire calmed down and then it was a slow adding them back in and healing my body and all of that. So it was an elimination diet for a period of time. So when you look at Carnivore, I believe a lot of people feel a lot flipping better. Of course they do. Like we've eliminated any possible thing that can cause an issue, but we've also eliminated is phytonutrients, flavonoids, polyphenols, fiber. We've eliminated all types of things that also reduce inflammation, improve detoxification, support our gut, increase longevity, support our DNA, combat oxidative stress, all of it. So you remove the trigger, but how are we guarding against all those other things?

[B]

Exactly. And, and, and I do, I will say for the autoimmune people out there, sometimes going carnivore for a short amount of time, just like elimination, it's, it's only, it calms things down. It calms down the fire, no question. But then you have to bring things back in. I mean, hopefully the transition to Carnivore eliminated the box foods and the processed foods and the garbage out of your life. So that when you calm down that fire, now you can bring in the vegetables that won't kill you.

[A]

I'm not against Carnivore, I just want to be clear. But I'm for it for a period of time as an elimination or to be carnivore ish, meaning you're replacing, you're adding. One of my good friends is a carnivore ish. And she's very public about being carnivore. But she's carnivore ish. Like I've seen her eat the other things too. So carnivore. So again, we get kind of. We gotta be really aware of that. So when I hear someone say vegetables will kill you, do you understand how ridiculous you sound? Like literally how ridiculous you sound? There is more research, health benefits about vegetables, fruits and vegetables than, than any other food out there. Like that is plant. I'm not saying go extreme. That's a whole nother topic about extreme plant based. But you're not gonna convince anyone that is doing well in the longevity game. That's healthy, that eats fruits and vegetables. To give up fruits and vegetables, you're just not. I mean, this is like there is more research on that. We need polyphenols, we need, we need those nutrients from there, those are anti. Antioxidants, antioxidant oxidative stress. You cannot combat that with meat alone.

[B]

No, you can't. And literally, as we are recording this, two days ago, the food pyramid got flipped.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And okay, yes, there is now a focus on meat. And meat isn't at the bottom anymore of having one serving. But you'll also notice that vegetables kind of moved up the chain a little bit. So now it's, it's really about that balance of protein, meat, lean meat, and healthy fats and vegetables all coming in. Yes.

[A]

Yeah. You know that, that food pyramid flip made me so happy. Ten years ago I published a book called Seven Day Jumpstart. Unprocessed your diet. And it literally was that food pyramid. It's literally that. And the thought process behind it is eating natural, real, primarily unprocessed foods. Not perfection. Not never ever touch something else. I'm not saying you'll never catch me eating something that you wouldn't approve of. I guarantee if I'm sitting next to you and you have a gummy bear, I Might eat one. Or Reese's Peanut Butter. I'm just. But it's not a staple in my diet. But that's the point. But I also won't have a stomach issue or inflammation or anything flare up because of one gummy bear. Again, you can eliminate yourself to an extreme, but at what cost and at what life? And I want people to recognize. Very few people that say they are strict carnivore are actually strict carnivore. There's a lot of smoke in mirrors. There is a. And I, believe me, we have seen these people at the masterminds at the, like there. It's carnivore. Ish. So just be really aware of what you're following, what you're doing. And even some of the most verbal, vocal carnivore people, after a year of it or whatever, have come a different way, or you'll see they've rapidly aged. There's a big difference in how their skin looks and how their energy. Just all of it. Just be aware of that.

[B]

Well, one thing you said on your podcast that really hit home and, you know, a couple specific people popped into my mind when you said this, is that when you look at the carnivore extreme people or even the extreme biohackers, they don't look good.

[A]

No.

[B]

You know, look at how a. If somebody is giving you a message, look at how they look and then decide if you really want that message. I mean, just look at Natalie. She's 54. Okay? That's somebody I want to listen to because obviously she's done some things right. But when you see a. An influencer that looks 10 years older than they are, maybe take their advice with a grain of salt.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. As our. As our good friend Sabrina says, she says, let's compare labs and abs, too. So. So what's working for you is working. It needs to be working all. All the ways around. So just again, I'm not talking about temporary. I'm not talking about. You're doing something as an elimination. That's a totally different topic. An experiment. This is your lifetime, and you're saying, I'm going to do this the next 10 years you get. You really need to think that through the next one, the hot topic is carbs. And carbs are very confusing to people for some reason. And what, what you're probably wondering is, like, are. What's your stance on em? And are they. Are they good or are they bad? And what I want you to be thinking is, what's the beef with carbs? Like, what's the beef with car, what's the, what's the problem with carbs here? Because the brain uses 20% of our energy, right? And it functions best with glucose. Going to get glucose from carbohydrates. So when you cut carbs too low, that's the first thing you're going to have. Brain fog, irritability, poor focus, anxiety, depression when you cut them too low. Now there is a point of cutting them where it's great and we can argue about having a state of making ketones and where that's going to do for your brain function. But I want to back up for a minute and just talk about carbs in general. And carbs is a very big category. Like I bet many of the listeners aren't even aware and I, a lot.

[B]

Of you are going to go, duh.

[A]

Of course you should know that there's a lot of people that don't even realize that vegetables and fruits are carbs. Right?

[B]

I was going to ask you to break it down because I have had that question before. Like, what is a carbohydrate? I'm like, really? We're in 2026 and you're ask. So can you break down the same.

[A]

People that think eggs are dairy, by the way, they're not dairy. Okay. But anyways, so a cookie, a muffin, carbs, potatoes, rice, carbs, candy, carbs, broccoli, carbs, spinach, carbs, orange spot. So vegetables, fruit, junk food, anything starchy is also carbs. That's a very, very big category. So the way that I like to label them is carbs. I break down into three different categories and these are just my made up terms. Not ideal, better and best. So let's go with not ideal, better and best. Not ideal is what you're thinking. Candy, junk food, sugary cookies, sugary muffins, not ideal. We know that. Not ideal. I don't have any problem with you taking those out of your diet. No problem. Better maybe is grains. So oatmeal or. I'm not personally a fan of grains. That's a whole nother topic. But I'd say it's better. It's still carb. It's better than your junk food and your candy. Right. We're not going to argue that licorice and gummy bears or M&M's are better than oatmeal. That's just not true. So even if you're not a fan of oatmeal, I would say it's better than that. Right. But ideal carbs are things like fruit, low glycemic fruits, vegetables. And I like sweet potatoes and potatoes. Adding those into, which could be a vegetable, it's really a starch, but whatever, it's still, it's a carb. Those have a lot of nutritional benefits. So you, when you have fruits, vegetables, even sweet potatoes, there is a lot of nutrients in those. You got a lot of bang for the buck. So not only are you getting energy from those carbs, which is amazing, you're getting incredibly powerful nutrients. Incredibly powerful. So when I say carbs, those are what I'm talking about. I'm eating lots of berries, I'm eating lots of leafy greens, and I'm having a sweet potato. So those are the kind of carbs I'm talking about. So when we look at this whole no carb, which type of carb, I'll put that in the same camp of calories, a calorie. Cause that's not true either. You cannot say a hundred calories of broccoli is the same of a hundred calories of gummy bears. It's just not true. They're going to have different effects on your body. So when we look at carbs, we want to look at what type of carb first and then I want you to look at. There's a difference between low carb and no carb. No carb, I think, is fully dangerous. You're going to do zero carbs for a long time. That's dangerous. Low carb, depending on what you're doing, could work for you. Could. But again, who are you and where are you starting from? Because it also can spike cortisol and keep you wired, anxious. And there's, there's all kinds of variables there. So this is where women have got to be in detective mode and go, okay, let me understand carbs. Could I make better choices on the carbs? Can I lower them? But before you just say I'm going to eliminate them, you have to think that through.

[B]

Since the release of Metabolism Fixer, we have been bombarded by stories of people just raving about it and the results that they're getting. So what we're seeing across the board, control of appetite and without the use of expensive GLPs. Because metabolism contains that patented trademark ingredient suppressor, has a boatload of studies behind it, reducing appetite by 69%. We have heard massive reports. Thanking us, thank you from Metabolism Fixer. Because finally I have control over my appetite once and for all. I'm not binging, I'm not overeating, and that's really half the battle. But beyond that, we have to get the metabolism up. We have to get your metabolism up. How do we do that? Metabolism Fixer contains T2. Now it also contains purple tea and green tea, which both increase your metabolic furnace. But T2 is really the key. That forgotten thyroid hormone that increases your basal metabolic rate stimulates brown adipose tissue. That's why you're jumping into cold plunges, people. To stimulate that brown adipose tissue, turn the white squishy fat brown, make it more metabolically active, protect your muscles. T2 acts like an exercise mimetic. So it's just like you're going to the gym. This is what gives us that better metabolism, so that we're burning fat while we're just sitting around doing nothing. So you don't have to starve yourself to lose weight. You don't have to work out three hours a day to lose weight. By adding a metabolism fixer, you're going to have better appetite control. You're going to have nice steady energy through the day. That's another thing that T2 does. Bonus. And you're going to have a better overall basal metabolism, the amount of body fat and energy that you are burning at rest. And that is what is going to ignite your metabolic furnace and that is what is going to get that weight off of you once and for all. So if you need better appetite control and you know, you just want a better metabolism and you don't want to carry around extra weight, Add in Metabolism Fixer. Just one scoop a day. That's all you need, one scoop a day. It will start kicking in very shortly to control your appetite. Studies show about two week onset, but we've had people notice that appetite control kick in within a day or two. Add in one scoop Metabolism Fixer, you are going to thank me that you saved hundreds, if not thousands of dollars not using a glp, but using this. Yummy. Throw it in your water, flavors your water. Oh my God, it tastes like Tang. Metabolism Fixer every day. And you know, I always say your labs do tell us how you should eat. So listen, if you're a type 2 diabetic and you have, you know, 50 to 100 pounds to lose, and you know that your body takes carbohydrates and makes them into sugar and increases your A1C and increases your insulin and impacts on the pounds, then yes, you might have to do something like a very low carb or ketogenic diet to, to get that under control. To get that A1C down, get out of that inflamed state. But then at that point, you start reintroducing the good carbohydrates, the best ones. The. The root vegetables. The vegetables, the fruits in moderation. And then you see how your body does. So again, you can use these extreme diets as temporary tools to get a health condition under control. But at some point of time, you have to come back to the middle and give your body the nutrients that it needs.

[A]

Yeah. So what many people are, like, wondering or debating about carbs or no carbs. And what you want to consider instead is what kind of carbs and what are they actually doing for my body? And then what if my belief system has not been serving me? Because that's another big thing. A lot of women go, I'll hear women all the time go, I just. I'm so good. I'm having no carbs. And what if that's been the problem? We've been looking at this wrong.

[B]

And you just said good equals no carbs. That's ingrained in their mind. No pun intended, with a grain.

[A]

Right.

[B]

That's ingrained in their mind that, okay, I get a gold star if I don't let a carbohydrate pass my lips today.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And that's wrong thinking. Right.

[A]

And. And then it's the same people that are putting, like, a Jolly Rancher in their mouth while they're getting their nails done. So. So I'm. I'm just saying, like, for that same calorie count in the Jolly Rancher, you could have had a whole bowl of leafy greens. Or I'm just saying there's different. Carbs are all different. And you could have had nutrition from that, like, really great phytonutrients. That's going to combat oxidative stress. And then another thing I want to talk about with carbs is that's our fiber. I mean, we're going to get fiber from the right carbs, too. Now, you're not going to get fiber from pure sugar. That's not going to happen. But you eat a whole fruit, you eat the vegetables, you're going to get fiber. And without fiber, we're going to slow down digestion. Also, we're going to slow down elimination. We are going to have an increased risk of cancer in every direction when you're not having any fiber.

[B]

Oh, yeah. Estrogen detoxification relies on fiber. That's why we're telling menopausal women, like, hey, you know, add in a little bit more fiber when you're on that bhrt. Because we want your body properly processing and methylating and detoxing the estrogen that you're giving it.

[A]

Plus, y' all eating just meat is just gross. I'm sorry. It's just gross. And it's just not necessary. We know having a strong, healthy gut is key. There's no possible way, no possible way to have a strong, healthy gut without a diverse diet. There just isn't. If you're not eating and adding in diversity, how are you gonna have a strong gut?

[B]

I gotta tell you, I've said this for a long time. I would love to even try Carnivore, but there's something inside of me that blocks me every time. And I think it's almost like an innate intelligence of my body saying, no, no, no, no, be carnivore. Ish. Please. I always divert to sweet potatoes, root vegetables. Vegetables. And they always tend to circle back in even when I try to do Carnivore, because it's like my body knows. Yeah, my body just knows.

[A]

But I don't disagree that people feel better initially on it. It's the long term. And as we're aging and the problem. And I and I know, we both commonly know many doctors actually that did Carnivore for a period of time and it really messed up their metabolism, messed up a lot of things for them later. So.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

Let's talk about extreme protein in general, because I love protein, but I want to just talk about where that even came from initially. And that was the. Really this. The bodybuilding culture initially of bodybuilders would eat protein every few hours because it was the belief set, your body couldn't metabolize that protein and help turn it into muscle unless you were giving it a break and eating small amounts every few hours. So it would get divided throughout the day to help doing that. And I remember even thinking, my gosh, in the early 2000s, that if I didn't eat enough protein or I skipped a meal or I went more than two or three hours, my body was going to eat its own muscle. Muscle. Do you remember thinking that?

[B]

Oh, my gosh, yes. And there was a time I went to 200 grams of protein. Oh, girl. I gained weight. I. I gained rapid weight. Because it was too much.

[A]

Yes, because excess calories in any form is going to lead to excess fat on our bodies. I mean, if you can't use it all just because it's protein doesn't give you a free pass there, excess calories in general are going to end up as stored fat on our body. But 150 to 200 grams of protein a day is not required for most women.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And that's controversial. I mean I, Amy, you and I probably have a difference in how much. I'm just curious like how much you pretty much eat in protein. I'll share what I do normally hit.

[B]

Between I would say 90 on a low day and then probably 120 on a high day. I don't ever hit 150 or above.

[A]

We're about the same. I would say I'm probably on average 100 to 120 on average. But I will say there's many days where I'm getting a lot less and I'm not forcing it in. So I don't, I'm not freaking out. If this day I only had two meals with a good amount of protein, I'm not freaking out. And for, to give you an example, I think that we need to work with our bodies more. So I don't happen to be very hungry in the morning. So having seven eggs and steak is not going to be my thing in the morning. I just don't do it. I have two eggs in the morning with my fruits and my vegetables and my, that's what I do. That's lower on protein than a lot of people would advise. I don't care. I feel fine. It has not affected me in a negative way. That's what I do. I tend to load heavier later in the day because that's when my body tends to crave it. But I think when we're excessively trying to push in this excessive amount of protein, you got to understand, one, your body is still going to store excesses fat. Two, you're going to create digestive strain bloating. You can have amino overload. Like you're just, you're literally force feeding yourself and you can gain muscle without doing that.

[B]

Now Natalie, don't you think this is a tricky topic because we have a lot of our ladies not eating enough protein. Like literally they're getting in 30 or 50 grams total per day. So we're telling them hey, you need to eat more. But then on the other side, I mean we have that message out there of eat more protein, more protein, more protein. So again it's, it's about coming to the middle, people coming to the middle.

[A]

So what if that's the wrong question? What if it's not how much protein but instead what's my unique situation? So let me give you an example. You're listening right now. And you've got a hundred pounds to release. I'm just, I'm just giving an example. You have a hundred pounds of fat to release and you've completely changed your diet and you're releasing right now. Do I need you to cram in more protein? Absolutely not. No. Do I want you to focus and build your meals around protein? Sure. But if you're having 3-4oz of protein at each meal and you're eating nutritious fibrous fruits and vegetables with it and healthy fats, and we're at a healthy calorie amount and we're releasing weight right now. No, I'm not going to tell you to force in more protein. However, take that same hundred pounds to lose, and I'm going to go to someone who has a lot less to lose. £100 to lose. And you are just craving a bagel in the morning and your carb, your rice and chicken at lunch, but you're not really eating the chicken. You're eating more rice. And now at dinner, you're afternoon, you're tired and you're sleepy and you want more carb heavy. Am I going to tell you up to have your protein? Absolutely. Because the reason you're having that problem is you're too starchy carb heavy. Your body's secreting insulin. We cannot burn fat while we're secreting insulin. We're creating a ravenous cycle of we're secreting insulin and then we're hungry. So for you, we've got to switch that. So we're going to have to lead with protein and switch to low glycemic carbs, higher fat. Because for you, we've got to turn off that switch. So Same person, same two people have 100 pounds of fat to lose. I just gave a very different scenario. Okay, now let me take you to somebody totally different. You have 15, 20 pounds to lose. You've been eating pretty healthy most of your life. You understand, unprocessed. You are wondering what the heck is happening to your muscle. You're. It's getting harder to gain muscle. You're losing muscle as you're losing weight. You're aging. You're not. You're worried about bone loss. You're a different person. Do I want you to eat more protein? Absolutely. Why? Because we're trying. Right now our main goal is add muscle, put on more muscle and get leaner. This is different. So again, we're trying to give this standard advice for everybody, and it doesn't work that way.

[B]

Right. I Totally hear what you're saying and completely agree. Now, question for you, for your midlife community. Midlife ladies, is it true that we need more protein as we age because of sarcopenia and muscle loss, and then we're losing testosterone, so that's going to produce more muscle loss. We really need to keep the muscle that we have to protect our bones to protect us when we do, if we fall, God forbid that we're not breaking a hip and landing in the nursing home.

[A]

What if the answer is not black and white? What if I love it? We're all you fricking unique. And there's. There's a different formula for most people. And this is the problem. What if you've been in self beat up because you're like, I can't follow this thing, it's not feeling right for me. And that's creating the problem here. So, no, it's not a black and white answer. It's an. It depends. I don't know what your current situation is, what you're currently eating, what you're currently doing. I know many, many fit people in their 50s, 6070s, that do not have bone loss, that eat very different amounts of protein. Very different amounts.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Very different amounts. So I just don't think it's a blanket rule. But again, but I don't want to speak into like, Amy, you're working with your own clients. You know their situation. So when we assume someone's just like us or whatever, we're putting these blanket statements out, which I think it's very confusing for people because I. You think about that. The woman that is scrolling Instagram, who's got a lot of fat to release, who's completely turned their diet around, is eating unprocessed, is getting in the healthy fats that's doing the, the good, healthy fruits and vegetables, and they're eating their lean proteins, they're doing all the work and now they're hearing you're not eating enough protein. I don't. That's not the right message.

[B]

One more thing. Yeah, it's one more thing.

[A]

But yeah, that woman that's got skinny culture, that's been. Been chasing skinny for years and now is worried about sarcopenia, like all that. Yes, you gotta add more muscle, you gotta lift heavier. There's a whole bunch of things you gotta do. But with your adding more protein and lifting heavier, we also have to add carbs because guess what? We're not gonna just make muscle just from protein.

[B]

Right. And that kind of goes back to the last Topic that we really didn't get into that component. But carbohydrates are also essential for muscle. I mean, you'll never see a bodybuilder just eat protein. I know, I know. Okay, you're listening. There's some keto bodybuilders out there. They're few and far between.

[A]

But they weren't keto before, they weren't keto when they started that they were.

[B]

They were not. Because it wasn't a thing. No, in. In our day, it was. You eat carbohydrates and protein because the carbohydrates allow that protein, the amino acids, to get into the muscle for the muscle to get fed and grow. And essentially that's what we want is to. To put on more muscle, especially as a bodybuilder or competitor. But the average person needs to be cognizant of that as well. You still need those carbohydrates to allow that door to open up to your muscles so that your muscles can get fed with the protein and amino acids that you are eating. It all works together.

[A]

This comes back to what are you chasing again? Because if you're chasing skinny, that's a very different topic than I'm chasing adding muscle. I'm chasing longevity. Like, this comes back to that very first question. What are you chasing? What is your desire? What is. What is the thing?

[B]

Then we got to look at, where.

[A]

Are we starting from? What's the situation here? And what do I need to tweak for that? So one of the things that I'm really adamant about when women work with me is we teach that detective mode. We have to. Because it's not as simple as just do that. I mean, I can make it as simple for people to start and I do. Like, obviously we're going to start this way, but then the whole goal is we got to get into detective mode. Because what works for me is not exactly what works for Amy. What works. We're all very unique and we have to get to a place where we're in a really great spot to be able to evaluate where these tweaks are making a difference in our bodies.

[B]

Exactly. So let's now get into some fat loss, weight loss, fat releasing trends.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That are either supplemental or pharmaceutical. So supplemental. I want to. I want to kind of go back to the days of fen phen, ephedra, which. Okay, those have kind of gone by the wayside, but they have been now replaced with people using nicotine patches, which I've talked about nicotine on the podcast. Before in relation to, you know, cancer and using it for health and not for weight loss. People are using higher dosing for weight loss. They are still putting in stimulant formulas, abusing Adderall to lose weight. So what about that whole trend?

[A]

Yeah, gosh, okay. This is a whole, that's a whole interesting, well thing. Also gets back to your goals and what you're, what you're wanting. And I, but also thinking if you're turning to a substance and I'm not going to talk about GLPC yet and you'll all be surprised, that's a whole other piece. But we'll get into that in a few minutes. When you're looking for a substance to lose weight, you got to again go back and ask yourself why that again, what's your decision? What's your goal here? Anytime you speed up your metabolism and create that adrenaline rush, you're going to, you're speeding up your metabolism basically. So you're burning more calories at rest. It's also just every pro has a con, right. Every ying has its yang. So you speed up your metabolism for something. What are we doing to our heart rate? There's other things. What are we doing to our adrenals? What are we doing to our stress? So when you do that, there's going to be a rebound from that. So, so just know that there is no such thing as a free lunch. You take something that's a Federin based, you're taking an off label ADHD medicine, you're doing something like that to speed up. There is a rebound effect. Always, there is always a rebound effect. So when you stop it, you gain it back, you've slowed down your metabolism. Now your body's relying on that. So it's just again you thinking through that now. Is there research that things like caffeine, all that will help speed up your metabolism? Absolutely there is. Because while you're taking it, everything is working at a hot, faster speed. It's like you become the energizer bunny. If you think of it that way, energizing bunny runs faster than the turtle. So it's a temporary thing. My concern with the nicotine patches, and I know you're a big fan of them and that's a lot of my friends are a big fan of them.

[B]

Low dose though, very low dose. Not the high dose for weight loss. Right.

[A]

My concern is it's still addictive. So once we are adding it, what's the plan? Is it we're on it for the rest of our lives? And maybe if your answer is yes, and you're okay with that, that's fine, but there's just a rebound to everything. So, you know, I don't know. I don't know how to answer that other than you have to think about that. Is that a lifestyle change or is that I slapped something on that now becomes part of my rest of my life? I need.

[B]

Well, that is true. And that. That's a. That's a different lens to look at it through. And it comes back to your question of why are you doing it? So I'll throw on a nicotine patch because I'm still in that whole cancer prevention mode.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But I. I never even thought to, you know, use it for weight loss until you were telling me, oh, my gosh, people are using this for weight loss. I'm like, oh, okay. Oh, I didn't even know that.

[A]

What are the benefits when we use. Talk about. And this is not my education here, about as far as why does nicotine, you know, here we grew up learning nicotine, bad nicotine, bad cigarette. Why? What is this pivot to nicotine being healthy? Is it because it gets stressed down and gets cortisol down or what's the thought process behind that? I don't even know.

[B]

So I interviewed Brian Artis on this topic, so people can go back and listen to that. But in a nutshell, like, when we're talking about cigarettes, it's not the nic. Nicotine is a plant. It's just a plant. So the plant itself, just like, we can't say vegetables are bad. We can't say the nicotine plant is bad.

[A]

Isn't cocaine a. Isn't cocaine. It doesn't. Cocaine.

[B]

It does start as a plant. That is true. That is true. But it's. You're right. It's. What do we do with that plant to alter it so it then becomes an addictive substance. So in that cigarette, it's not. I mean, hey, look at the Indians. They were smoking nicotine. They were fine. But now we have big tobacco coming in and putting filters on it. And the chemicals. He said that There are over 200 different chemicals in one cigarette. Wow. So I. It's the chemicals that are then producing the addictives.

[A]

So when you wear a nicotine patch, what is the feeling? Is it grounding? Is it like, calming? What is. What is the benefit of it that we feel or. You don't feel anything? You feel nothing?

[B]

I feel. I feel nothing. So because I'm using such a lot, I'm using like 3 milligrams so you're.

[A]

Cutting like a patch that you would buy at a store, you'd.

[B]

Oh yeah. Some of those patches come in like 25s. Wow. You know, or 21. They usually go like 3, 7, 21.

[A]

Yeah. I am thinking when I hear about people using them for weight loss, they're doing these high doses or they're actually turning to smoking or vaping or things like that to create that stimulant to not be hungry and lose weight, to me is again, you're taking something external that you're going to be relying on for life. That's just, that's my concern with it. It's. It's an addictive property. Again, not. It's actually interesting when we talk about GLP is a different opinion about that and why. But nicotine, to me this is an important topic to understand again why you're doing it. So if you're like you said, Amy, you're doing it for the cancer to not have reoccurrence. You've got the science behind that before you're grabbing it for weight loss. You gotta understand the ying and the yang to that. Like what's happening by adding this on.

[B]

Oh, absolutely. And I can't tell you kind of along the same lines, nicotine into like the Adderall, Adipax, phentermine, fen, phen. You know, I've seen women on these drugs and like you said, it has that rebound effect, but it almost completely destroys their adrenal glands. And that's really what I see. So they gain the weight back because they have no cortisol regulation whatsoever. And of course anything extreme, there's going to be an opposite, there's going to be that rebound. But I'm also seeing them totally destroy their adrenal glands to that now. They can't handle stress, they can't, they can't handle sugar and blood sugar extremes. We can't even give them the thyroid hormone that they need because their bodies can't accept it. They're in such this heightened fight orf flight mode that their bodies can't even take in the good hormones that they actually need to have a metabolism. It's like their body just fights back.

[A]

For years we talked about you unless you're sleeping on a rock, you heard about depression and anxiety, especially in midlife women. So depression, anxiety, they typically go together, right? You've got anxiety followed by depression. It's like they literally work together. So if you are depressed, you likely had a time before that was an anxiety driven state. That then creates depression. It's my understanding, it's my belief that that's sort of been replaced with this idea of cortisol and adrenals. Cortisol is the stress state. Adrenals are what then regulate. And so adrenal fatigue is kind of the opposite. So adrenal fatigue and cortisol have kind of replaced this depression, anxiety thing. And then we went another step and we, we call it nervous system regulation or dysregulation, which is also the same thing, repackaged. When you think of depression, anxiety, it has this sort of like shame or hush hush around it, right? People are like, they don't want to admit it, don't want to talk about it. Cortisol and adrenal got kind of, again, people debunk. It's become that. And now this new idea is nervous system regulation or dysregulation, which I think was a good marketing plan because it's new, it's fresh. And even just hearing those words, people think, well, I want a regulated nervous system. I don't want a dysregulated nervous system. Right? We want a regulated. Because if you have a regulated nervous system, you can handle stress, you're calm, you're calm, focus, you feel good, right? It's like this, this normal thing. So when we talk about stimulants, like high level stimulants, like you mentioned, the fen, phen, the ephedra, the high levels of nicotine, we are creating a nervous system dysregulation in a huge way. A dysregulation. Almost everything that can go wrong in our lives comes from this nervous system dysregulation. So when you look at it that way, I want you to really ask yourself what you're doing the stimulants for. Are the stimulants for a temporary thing to speed up metabolism at a cost long term, or is it really being used for your focus because you've got ADD or whatever it is? So that's how I'm going to explain it. I know it was a big, long winded answer there, but it really is just creating anxiety in your body which then creates a state of dysregulation.

[B]

And I, I totally agree with you. And I'm going to layer one more thing on for the audience. I'll speak for myself and then I'll pass it to you.

[A]

And I wasn't talking about nicotine patches specifically low dose there, Amy. I was talking about more like these high level stimulants. Yeah.

[B]

Oh, right, absolutely, yeah. The Adderall, the, the fen phen, all of that, the high levels, everything that we're talking about, I have done to myself at one point of time or another. So please do not think that we are speaking from a lofty pedestal looking down upon you if you have tried to Adderall or fen phen or, or nicotine or carnivore or anything, because we.

[A]

Do a stack of ephedrine and caffeine and aspirin before died.

[B]

Died in the 90s and early 2000s from Hydroxycut. We're coming to you from that place of experience. And I can honestly tell you I, I remember those crashes too.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I remember the cortisol crash after taking a stimulant that got me up here and then all of a sudden it's, it's 2pm and I am ready for bed. Oh yeah. Because I have nothing left. Oh yeah.

[A]

It's huge.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So that's where we want to look at that now. Getting into something different is the biggest topic. This is also another thing that keeps coming up is people are wondering like, is this an either or? And like, what's going on and is this going to. Are they even going to be legal and why isn't the government stopping? Like, there's a lot of questions that people are wondering, like what if, what are they long term? And I look at it through a little bit of a different lens because what if, what if, literally this is groundbreaking science that could turn off obesity. If I said just, just come follow me for a minute here. Like, if you're listening and you've been against them or whatever, what if really having lack of GLP in your brain is a bigger problem than we've realized. Just like not having your pancreas makes insulin would create type 1 diabetes. What if this lack. We have some groundbreaking help there. So let's start with that. I'm going to talk from a place of positive first. I think personally, and this is just Natalie's opinion, I might be a licensed master sports nutritionist, but it's just my opinion here, I think it's stupid not to have an open mind around that because this could be groundbreaking and we do know it's helped a lot of people. So for the people that it's truly helping, I think it should be more accessible and we should have more information and support around it. That's. That's the first thing I'm going to say. Where the problem has come in is it's being used very, very extremely off label from obesity. Very Now I think it is groundbreaking for obesity. I also think it is very, very important for people that are dealing with disease or going down the path of disease.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

In helping with inflammation and helping turn things around. Heck, there are studies showing we've all known, first of all how negative A high A1C can be or how negative a high blood sugar can be on our health. So when you're pre diabetic, which by the way, what Amy and I would consider pre diabetic is very different than western medicine typically would, we have a much lower standard there. I believe that if you are creeping up in the 515253 and higher, we're putting ourselves at higher risk for things. Right. So we know that having a lower blood sugar, which is where the low carb thing came from by the way, to begin with. But wrong answer to it. But the original thought process is get our blood sugar lower if there's a way to reduce inflammation, to reduce blood sugars, to be more preventative. Also, I believe GLPs have a strong place there. They do. The problem I see right now, there's a, there's a lot of problems. I see. But I'm gonna explain that, explain the biggest ones. Number one, they're only available pharmaceutical wise in one dose period. Like you get Ozempic, it's one pen. You get the Tirzepatide, which is, I don't know all the names for them on Joro or Govi, they're all different names. Whatever you're getting, it's like a one dose pen which you. That's great for obesity. But saying that somebody that is struggling with chronic high blood sugar or is putting their self at risk for other things, that's not obese needs that same size pen. That's, that's a problem right there. What I see is happening is one, it's becoming this black and white argument like we talked about at the beginning of this, this episode, that it's getting too black and white, extreme, extreme, with too many opinions of what people should do for their own health or not do for their own health. You've got obesity doctors arguing that the biohacking community shouldn't be using it for longevity. You've got longevity saying like you've got, it's like too much information arguing all over the place. What if there's actually more to this and it's more groundbreaking than we realize and we need to learn to work with it, which is what I choose to do with my, with my clients. Honestly, I am not against them at all. I'm for education around them. So if someone's working in my fat loss programs are working with me and.

[B]

They choose to do that, I want.

[A]

Them to have the education. So what's the right dosing? What's the smallest amount you could use to actually get the result you're after? That's like number one. Number two, what are we doing to actually preserve muscle, to use it to get healthier, versus are you using it just to follow a trend, which is what we talked about earlier? Because I think it is fueling right now eating disorders and trends.

[B]

I think there's a lot of people.

[A]

Using it just to cut off appetite, get crazy, hyper skinny, and we're going to have a big problem with sarcopenia, but we're going to have problems here. That was a lot that I just said in a couple minutes.

[B]

No, no, I, I, I love it. I love it because honestly, I, I agree with all of that. I have not yet said this on a podcast, so I'll say it now. I feel like I have come full circle with the GLPs. It started off when they first were released that I called them the Beverly Hills soccer mom drug of choice for weight loss because everybody, every celebrity was using it just to lose weight. Then the micro dosing came out and started studying that. And like you said, the benefits around fatty liver disease, heart disease, inflammation reduction, it's there when it's used Alzheimer's, even properly Alzheimer's, all of the research points to beautiful result when truly used at a microdose. But now between here and present, now we have like a bastardization of what micro dosing is. Now people are microdosing full, regular, standard dosing amounts and they're calling it microdosing to make themselves feel better. And they are losing muscle and they're actually, Natalie, they're starting to lose desire for life. Why do you think you are now seeing commercials for Las Vegas? Come to Vegas. This is where it's all at. Vegas didn't have to advertise before. GLP1s are taking away. Yeah, they're helping with addictions. I mean, people aren't gambling or drinking as much anymore, but they're losing the desire for life. They're losing their dopamine. They're not chasing anything. And a study that just came out today showing the amount of weight gain after you stop. So now you're fooling yourself that you're using a microdose, but you're not. And you're not changing your eating habits while using it, you're using it for starvation and for appetite control. And then what if your supply is cut off? What if we're hearing is true that, that you will not be able to get it from a compounding pharmacy anymore. You will only be able to get it for $1200 a month as prescribed by your doctor. You're going to gain all that weight back because you didn't change your eating habits during the time you used it. So now I'm starting to waver on my opinion. Honestly.

[A]

Yeah, no, I, those are all real concerns. I still think that from a whole. We're, we're asking the wrong questions. Let me just, let me give you an example. What I mean, when ADHD medicine came around to help people with adhd, we can all. Well, maybe some people won't agree, but we can agree, maybe a lot of people that it's helping people. Some people with adhd, you have severe adhd, maybe your type of add, it's helping you. And we can also agree that some people are abusing those drugs for weight loss. But why is it not that controversial? And I would say that's the same with literally every drug. We could say that there's some pain medicine that could be used after surgery for severe pain. Right. I had back surgery and you know.

[B]

I needed a pain.

[A]

I was like in massive pain. But we can also say people are abusing pain medicines to feel good. I've got a high. So every single fricking pharmaceutical thing that's out there, there is a question about is there going to be abuse. What bothers me so much about the GLP thing is I believe if this is truly groundbreaking, and I think it is for what it's potentially can help with, why aren't we making it actually more accessible and more educational about true levels and what like what you just said, a true microdose.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Somebody could have 1/10 of a dose, that's the starting dose and have those benefits you're talking about. Why is there not more education around that or more research supporting that? Why are we so focused on let's make this a have or have not? Or like there's just, there's too many questions I have there. And why are so many nutritionists and trainers so against it? Are they worried they're going to lose their business? Like, I know I got into fat loss, nutrition and health because I really.

[B]

Wanted to help people.

[A]

I wanted to help people get healthier. If this is something that could help with that, with my education, I'm all about it. I don't have a problem with people adding that in. Now do I think it's weird that there's multi level marketing companies popping up all over the place and people. Yeah, I think that's weird. I think that's weird. I think we need doctors to be monitoring and prescribing. I think we need to be understanding and educating and truly looking at it the way we look at anything else. How much do you actually need to help with things? But I'm really not against it. I am actually really for people having proper education around it and learning how to use it with their body if they need it. And that's just, that's my opinion on it as a nutritionist. I mean that and with all that background and I, I just. That's where I land on it.

[B]

Absolutely. Now, what is your take about? I know your take, but I'm going to ask you so you can say it. About people not changing their eating habits while on it. I mean, what are they going to do when supply runs out, when they can't get it anymore, when they eventually have to stop?

[A]

If you are one of those people making TikTok videos of your stir frying, your syringe and your bottle and you're saying, when I get hungry, this is what I'm doing. And you're making jokes of eating 500 calories a day and starving yourself. I'm sorry, you're dumb. You just. You're dumb.

[B]

You're.

[A]

You're dumb and you have an eating disorder. Well, I, I don't want to put this. People have very real serious eating disorders. First of all, that's a thing. But you are dumb or you have a very serious eating disorder that you need help with because that is not a long term plan. You might look skinny right now. You're gonna start losing your hair. You're gonna have bone and muscle. You're gonna have all kinds of issues as you age. You are not gonna age well. It's. You're giving yourself an eating disorder. Literally. Yeah, that's what I have to say about that.

[B]

No, I appreciate that. Because that's essentially that. That's the bottom line right there.

[A]

The proper microdose.

[B]

Right way.

[A]

If you're taking a proper microdose, you should be able to stop and feel the same. You're not going to be ravenous all of a sudden. Right?

[B]

Right.

[A]

You shouldn't be like, I can't go out to eat because I'm just can't eat anything like a proper microdose. Maybe it Takes a little edge off, I guess. You maybe don't snack as much, I don't know. But it's not a this crazy amount. Now I am Amy's doctor. I am not a doctor. I am not giving medical advice here. I'm just using common sense here. Like, I'll tell you why I think we're so against it right now. Why? What's happening? I think people, it's money. I think people are scared of losing their business to it. They're scared of losing their clients to it. I think that big pharma there of money, if you follow the money on any which direction, there's a lot of things there. And that's why my spidey senses come up around this. And I have a very different opinion. I think if this is earth shattering and helpful, we need to learn it, understand it, have more education around it, make it more available at the right doses. I want to understand it more. My goal is to help people be healthy and lose weight. I, I want to help them. If that's something that can help, I am not against it.

[B]

Absolutely. No, I agree with you and I love your approach. Your approach is, it's balanced, it's science based. You focus on midlife women, but you find that middle ground of what each individual person needs. And that's what I love about you.

[A]

Every year for the last, my gosh, 15 years, and this is the first year I did not do it. We're doing something different. I have done a, like a live launch, you know, this where I open up my total body thrive and I do a webinar. And for the last few years, in fact, Amy and I did them together. I would do these webinars, fat loss as we age. I chose not to do that this January. And the reason I chose not to do it is because of all the things we've been talking about. There's too many things out there. And I didn't feel like getting in the middle of all the noise. I just didn't, I didn't. I felt like the way that I teach empowerment around fat loss and women helping each other, I just don't feel right now like getting in the mix of the noise. So what I am doing Instead and, and Dr. Nami and I, I'm excited to do this. We are gonna do kind of like we've been doing this, but we're gonna go deeper on specific questions that I know, like your women have. We're gonna do something that we've not tested before. And I actually can't Wait, instead of a. We're not doing a webinar, we're gonna do a live zoom where we actually. You can see us. We can see you. And we've got questions that were already pre submitted that, that Amy will start. It'll be like a live taping that you can actually hear us, but we're going to be answering all your questions too. So if this is resonating with you and you're like, well, what about this? Or what about that or what about my specific situation, I want you to come to this because we're doing it only one time and it's an interactive discussion and we're going to literally get in there and coach you on what's going on with your particular situation.

[B]

And I Love Q&As because that's where I guarantee you questions have popped up in listeners heads throughout this conversation. And this is where they can get that CL clarity. They can literally ask their questions and get such deeper clarity on everything that we just discussed here and really find what they need to do for them.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So this is going to occur on Tuesday, January 20, at 3pm Eastern, 2pm Central, 1pm Mountain, and that'd be noon Pacific. And we're going to put the link down in the show notes for you guys to register. You know, there's nothing like big that you have to do. Just click that link. So you're going to get reminders and you're going to get the zoom link sent to you so you can join us lot.

[A]

And it's regular zoom so we can see you, so you can see us. But I want you to, and I.

[B]

I just want you to come.

[A]

If you seriously want some coaching around this and questions, it'll just be for the people that are on the session. But it's one of the things that I love to do, Amy loves to do. I love to actually coach women. And I know you're probably hearing this and it's confusing because you, there's so much information overload out there and you're like, well, how much more information can I take? And what I want you to think if, what if getting your questions answered there could be the difference for you? Like what if you showing up and hearing some of these and having a real true interactive discussion, not a webinar, not somebody talking at you, but you can actually get your questions answered. What if that could be the breakthrough for you so you can actually release that weight finally and feel good this year?

[B]

Just clear the confusion. I love it. Just let's Clear the confusion for people and get them to their goals. So beautiful. I'm so happy you agreed to do that. I love Q and A. As my audience knows, I Love Q&As. So that will be happening on January 20th. So basically a week ish from when you're hearing this. So make sure you click the link below, go down to the show notes, click it, register. That way you'll have the Zoom link right in your inbox. And then, you know, set an alarm. Because I can't tell you how many times I've wanted to go to something. I'm like, well, I can't wait. I can't wait. And like the dog needs let's at my. My husband comes home, I'm cooking dinner, and literally an hour after it ends, I go, crap. Yeah, I totally miss that. So set an alarm, people, and show.

[A]

Up early because we our zoom room holds 500 spots because we're doing like regular zoom, we're not doing. And there might be only 10 of you on, I don't know, but there might be 800 of you trying to get on. So make sure you jump on and so you have one of those spots and we actually can see you and have the conversation with you.

[B]

No, that's true. If you, if you cannot get into the room, please don't email us. It's because you were late and you didn't get in early and we have over 500 people. So. Yes. Well, Natalie, thank you so much for jumping. Like I said, I was so excited for this conversation because it's needed. There's just so much confusion out there, but we are going to clear that confusion when we do the Q A. I just thank you for your time today and, and for your knowledge around this. I love it. I love the topic.

[A]

Amazing.

[B]

So everyone check the link below and we will see you next time on.

[A]

The Thyroid Fixer Podcast.

[B]

The information shared on the Thyroid Fixer Podcast is intended solely for informational and educational purposes. It is not a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Always consult with your physician or other qualified healthcare provider with any questions you may have regarding a medical career condition, treatment or before making changes to your health care regimen, including medications, supplements, or other therapies. Use of the information provided in this podcast does not establish a doctor, patient or client provider relationship between you and the host or between you and any other healthcare professionals featured on the show. Any medical opinions or statements made by guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of the host or affiliated parties. Statements regarding dietary supplements or health related products mentioned in this podcast have not been evaluated by the fda. These products are not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease. Some episodes of the Thyroid Fixer podcast may include sponsorships or affiliate links. The host may receive compensation for discussing or promoting certain products or services. Any such sponsorships or affiliations will be clearly disclosed during the episode. All opinions expressed are those of the host or guest and do not necessarily reflect the the views of any sponsors. The inclusion of a product or service does not imply endorsement by any healthcare professional featured on this podcast.