← The Ticket Sportsradio 1310 and 96.7 FM
Loading summary
Transcript109 lines
- [00:00]
Bob Sturm
Sam.
- [00:00]
Sam Slayton
I'm Sam Slayton, co owner and CEO at Sonte center for Healing. For 30 years, Sonte center has helped people reclaim their lives from addiction through expert care, compassion, and proven results. Did you know you can talk with a counselor at any time? Detailsantecenter.com
- [00:18]
Bob Sturm
the following is a KTCK Sports podcast presentation. And we welcome you to the 2026 draft season. It is Bob Sturm and my friend Dominic Robinson. Dominic, how are we, man?
- [00:39]
Dominic Robinson
Phenomenal, man. It's draft season, silly season. It is time to go. We had our time to go. We had our short sit in with George, talked cowboy draft, and now we're going to dig into, into the edges, what we think and who the best guys we like.
- [00:57]
Bob Sturm
That's right. So, okay, it's the 2026 draft season. We're already into March. We've dragged our feet a little bit because we had to get through a lot of tape. And now we're prepared to start giving you regular episodes. We will present those to you in your various places to get them. So hopefully you know how to find us. I mean, if you're listening to us, you probably do. So let's give a little background of what we want to accomplish here. This is for, of course, the NFL draft. It is sort of a companion piece to both the Sturm 60 and also the NFL draft coverage on the ticket in Dallas. And therefore, we are football nerds who are attempting to get you ready for the first two days of the draft. For the most part, we're not going to be able to tell you a whole lot about round six. At least I'm not. And we're also going to do it from largely a Dallas Cowboys perspective. That means different things every year. Except the one thing that stays the same is the frustration of missing the super bowl and things even close to the Super Bowl. And so it is our job to help find guys who can maybe someday solve that problem. And this year in particular, it means we've got to be all over the defense. And so expect this particular podcast, which last year claimed to not have a name. But this year we're going to go with the working title of Tape over traits, because that's exactly how we feel. Dominic.
- [02:32]
Dominic Robinson
Yeah, man. And I think we really established that our thing is not potential. You know, what we look at is we watch the game and we look for production. And so that sort of is the spearhead of our analysis is what do the guys show us on tape? Obviously, tape sec. Tape is, is going to be a little bit More valuable. You know, Big ten tape is going to be a little bit more valuable, especially for your guys up front. You know, your Ohio states and your Michigan's and things like that. But we're looking for tape trace. We're not looking for combine trays. We want things that jump out on the tape. You know, I, I'm constantly, you know, like you said, you're pouring over tape, I'm pouring over tape. It can get real monotonous. And what we're looking for is guys that make us sit up something that jumps off the tape. When it jumps on the tape, you know, you make a note of it. And these are the guys that you obviously want to add to your team.
- [03:37]
Bob Sturm
Yeah. And so we grade these guys. Everybody does it a little bit differently. But obviously if you look at 50 guys, you want to have some idea of at least putting them in tiers and then once you get in tears, you want to separate them in order that you would pick them. But of course that's going to be different because you could be one of any 32 teams. Or you could also have biases just from your own experience of what you like in a football player and what you don't like in a football player. And that is what makes this thing so subjective, so frustrating, so humbling. And yet at the same time, it is massively fascinating to those of us who try to project what happens to a 20 year old who is handed a ton of money and a ton of talent and a ton of responsibility by the time he gets to 30, what will his story be? And sometimes we can say, man, I knew it all along. I always think of Aaron Donald. The first time I watched Aaron Donald at Pitt, I thought to myself, this guy is so, so freaking good. I've never seen anything like this at the defensive tackle spot. Now, uh, I've missed a ton, but there are times where it's just so clear to you that you're wondering what everyone else is missing. And so, you know, when I say humbling, I do think we should start at, you know, basically the start, which is for me, I think I covered my first several drafts by buying magazines and going to the bookstore and buying a bunch of preview magazines and, and I thought that would be a great way to learn the draft. And it is on like the most surface level possible. But I found over the course of time that the people that make those magazines are doing the same thing we're doing, which is just watching football players maybe, or maybe they're just copying someone else's list. Who can say? But the point is, I found their findings to be a little bit frustrating to me because I took their advice. And then I'm putting Ryan Leaf in front of Peyton Manning is my favorite example. And so when you see something that's missed that badly in the future that you have to live with every Sunday for an entire Peyton Manning career, you then say, well, maybe I didn't do my own homework enough. And so that inspired me to dive in. And I guess the first draft I took super seriously was probably the Tyron Smith draft. And every year it gets a little more obsessive, but also every year you add a little more data to your brain, Dominic. And sometimes that makes you better at this, and actually sometimes you end up running in circles. But that's kind of the inspiration is, if we're going to talk about these guys, then I think we owe it to them and to the audience to have said, look, I watched this guy for 200 snaps. I. I gave him a couple hours one morning and really locked in on just him, not his teammates, not even just his opponent. I watched him play football and I took notes and I made observations. And then I tried to rank him against the other guys in his group and then the other guys at his position over the years. And it's not easy. Like I said, it's incredibly imperfect. So I always liken it to a baseball hitter, you know, because we talk about, like Bill Belichick and people, what's so great about Belichick? He misses on this draft pick and this draft pick and this draft pick. And I said, listen, all Bill Belichick is is Tony Gwynn. There's a bunch of major league hitters, but this guy has the best batting average. Now, Tony Gwynn would hit.330, so he would make an out a ton of times, you know, two out of every three. But he would hit better than everybody else. And so sometimes being good at this is a matter of being a 280 hitter instead of a 260 hitter. You just want to be the best hitter you can be. And that's really what draft evaluation or anything that you put your heart and soul into becomes. So I don't know what you thought of that setup from my standpoint, but feel free to carve your own or to build off it.
- [08:03]
Dominic Robinson
Yeah, I think one thing we discussed last year was we found out, we didn't know this, but we became draft buddies through our relationship, through. Through Dan, which Dan and I became buddies because my son Was being recruited to Clemson, and his. And his daughter was in the Clemson band. And I brought Dan down on the sideline and all of that. And you and I got close over the years, and we've done. We've hung out at Super Bowls and gone to comedy shows and. But what we found out last year during this process was we both became enamored with the draft during the Peyton. Peyton Manning, ryan leaf year 1998. I actually watched Peyton Manning play in person at UCLA that year. It was my freshman year of high school, and I fell in love with the whole draft process. Have watched every single draft, every pick, essentially, from that year up into now. And, you know, so it's just super interesting that the two of us, you know, sort of became such close draft buddies and fell in love with the draft in the same draft, you know, kind of at the same time. And I think both of us had Ryan Leaf, correct? Were you a Ryan Leaf guy also?
- [09:25]
Bob Sturm
Yeah, I was a Ryan. Absolutely Ryan Leaf.
- [09:27]
Dominic Robinson
And I think both of us were Ryan Leaf guys. And I think both of us were probably Ryan Leaf guys because of whatever media we were consuming, which was probably, for me, largely Mel Kuiper. And I don't remember Mel Kuiper stance right now, but I just know for a long time the only voice in this industry was his. And so us draft nerds all listened to him. And then I became a player and realized. And some of these people that Mel was talking about were not only friends of mine, some of them were teammates of mine. And I realized that a lot of the things he was saying was not only slightly incorrect, but just madly false. Just not even close, not even in the same ballpark.
- [10:19]
Bob Sturm
And.
- [10:20]
Dominic Robinson
And so I think that was part of my process of wanting to do this and wanting to provide a perspective mainly from a coach's standpoint, because I, you know, I coach football. I'm football obsessed with the X's and O's and the schemes. I became close with with Cody Alexander, he used to give me a lot of the information that I used to get, which I know he's a friend, friend of yours and friend of your show. And then so he started giving me information, and I was wondering. And then I had a buddy who was an NFL scout who was also. I would ask him questions, and he was getting me information quick. Like, I'd ask him for a guy, and I would think it's going to take him a day or two to get back to me. And then he would have, like, within 15 minutes, he'd have, you know, a list of things that this guy is or characteristics that this guy is or isn't on the draft. And I'm just like, man, how are you getting it so fast? Well, turns out there's a service that has film and information, every. Any analytic number. And so I used to get those numbers from Cody. I would ask him, hey, what are the coverage rates for Clemson? And he'd say, oh, they run cover three this amount of time and cover two. And I never knew where he was getting from. Well, I found out that it was coming from this service. And I was fortunate enough to have a coach because I was coaching. I coached college at some point that gave me his login to that service. And so now, at the drop of a hat, I can now dig into anything that you could think of, every single snap that happened. So just to give you guys a sort of insight on my process is it really goes from. From scratch. What's different between me and you, Bob, is during the season I'm doing analysis for different websites and things. So I'm watching guys in real time a lot of times or watching film in real time where you sort of. You're watching the Cowboys on Sundays. I don't. I'm not a Cowboy fan. I love the Cowboys. I love following the Cowboys because they're madly entertaining, but I don't watch the games. Yeah, my son is a Cowboys fan, so I'm always up on what they're doing. And I live there in Dallas. And obviously anyone who is a. A P1, there's no way that with the way that you guys cover that. That team, there's no way that you could not be a Cowboy follower or fan. You guys are so. So comedic about it. So so passionate about it. Good or bad, positive or negative. Everyone has sort of their different angle. But. But. So that's where you and I sort of differ is I have a more sort of broad look at these guys over the course of time. And then obviously my son is the age of these guys. So like last year's draft, TMac was a teammate of my sons in 7 on 7 stuff. So I have personal relationship with him. I was also for a while in the combine training game. So I trained some of the. So I understand, you know, from multiple angles from both the college coaching angle, the training angle and. And the player angle, you know, as a player, sort of what these different things look. Look like. So that is, you know, sort of the difference between our processes is I'm looking at guys essentially, you know, all Year over time. I'm actually watching ebbs and flows. You know, Ruben Bain, for instance, he plays at Miami. It's my rival school. I'm a Florida State graduation, so I see a lot of Ruben Bane and Hakeem Mazador and you know, all these different guys. And so I watched sort of the progression of their careers where you typically, not that you don't watch games on Saturday, I'm sure you do, but I'm actually watching the tape and doing analysis in real time instead when I getting it, you know, all sort of watching the 200 snaps at the end of the season.
- [14:38]
Bob Sturm
Yeah, when I'm watching the college football season, I have no idea. I mean, you got 20, 25, maybe 30 names. But you are. When I'm watching Indiana, I don't know much about d' Angelo Pons until like today when I gave him a couple hours of my day. And I mean, he's a nice player and I would see like Todd McShay has him ranked, whatever, but I don't, I didn't know him from Adam, by the way. He's really fun. We'll get to him in the corner episode, I'm sure. You know, there's, there's a, there's, there's so many, there's so many ways to do this. My, my process has always been to try to get to at least 60 and as many as 80 players. And what does that mean? Well, that means I either have 12 weeks or I have 16 weeks. And each weekday I can give each prospect his own day and his own couple hours. And that's the only way to do it, in my opinion for me is when the Cowboys get eliminated, which gets earlier and earlier sometimes. But this year it was like January 10th or so I thought, okay, I can get started on the draft. I grabbed my first guy, it was Reuben Bain. And then every weekday, Monday through Friday, I'm grabbing another player. And so I called it the Sturm 60 because usually it's a 12 week window between the end of the Cowboys and draft weekend, but sometimes if I, if they miss the playoffs or if I get a little creative and use Saturdays as well, I can get to 75 or 80. Call it the Sturm 60 every year because that's as far as I can go. And so far I've only done 30 guys. And so I think it's important for us to admit what we don't know. So I don't want to, I don't want to in any way give someone the impression that I'VE spent a couple hours on a player I haven't. So that's very useful because sometimes Dominic has guys on his list that I didn't even think about that might even happen today when we do the edges. So without any further ado, let's actually jump in. And just to give you an idea, last year I think we did 10 episodes. This year we'll. We'll get to at least eight. We might do 10. I don't have any idea. But we're just going to start knocking them out. But like I said, we are going to supersize the defense this year and even more so the positions that the Cowboys really need. Now, if you're not a Cowboys fan and you just love the draft, don't worry, we'll get to yours. I'm just not going to be able to promise as in depth. We'll see. Let's. Let's see where it goes, Dominic. So the idea is each position group, we want to give you our individual top fives. So like I said, it's a, it's a beauty contest. It's subjective, and I am looking at it from a standpoint of Cowboy fits. But I'm not going to dock a guy if he doesn't fit for the Cowboys. I'm just going to tell you that I don't think he probably fits for the Cowboys. He'll still be eligible for my rankings for whatever that's worth. And then Dominic will certainly cross examine my list and provide his own. And then next week when we do corners, we'll flip it around and he'll give his list and I'll volley off what he serves. And so we want to give you a brief rundown in these deeper positions. I realize a top five list does not help you on day two or day three, because I think all five of these edges could vary very well going the first round. But it's, it's really, you know, kind of the best we can do in this short time we have. So that's enough. Set up. Dominic, you ready to roll?
- [18:28]
Dominic Robinson
Yes, sir.
- [18:29]
Bob Sturm
All right, let's do edges today. I think edge is one of those positions that the Cowboys should be really focused on right now. The draft position right now is 12 and 20. At the time we're recording this, they haven't done anything crazy like trade them both for Max Crosby. I'm going to assume they're going to do anything that crazy, but you never know. It's professional sports and we learn to roll with the punches. But for now, I'm going to assume they are shopping hard through these edges and I want to give you a view on what I came up with.
- [19:03]
Dominic Robinson
And speaking of Max Crosby, I want to mention this, I meant to mention this when we were talking about our process.
- [19:10]
Bob Sturm
Yes, sir.
- [19:11]
Dominic Robinson
Again, talking about tape over traits. There's going to be some guys that will have some character things and I'm not saying Max Crosby does, but there's going to be some guys that have that. We're just looking at the tape. So it may be a guy that you say, oh, the Cowboys should never take him. He's got this issue off the field. You know, we had, I believe it was James Pierce last year as an edge. Right. And then we both mentioned that he had some red flags, but we both really liked him and his red flag came to fruition. He's in jail I think right now or, and maybe getting.
- [19:50]
Bob Sturm
Yeah, he has jeopardized his career.
- [19:52]
Dominic Robinson
So I just think it's important that we, we do mention that, hey, guys may have red flags, which may mean they go lower than we say. If I'd say a guy is a first rounder, I'm not saying that he will actually get picked in the top 32. I'm saying in an average year, in an average draft without any sort of red flags or any other external circumstances, that player would go in the, in the first round. So I think it's important to mention that not only with red flags but just with players in general. I want to. Because there will be a time where we'll review. I do want to even look at last year's draft and say, hey, where did we screw up? Where were we? Right? And, and there may be a guide last year that I said is a first rounder and he didn't go first round. And you go see, you were wrong. And I go, well, no, he's a first rounder based off of the, the contribution that he gave, not based off of where he actually got picked and the same thing second round and, and so on. I may say a guy's a third rounder, I may say he's going to go in the third round this year, but he's a first round player.
- [21:03]
Bob Sturm
Yeah.
- [21:05]
Dominic Robinson
And you almost every year it's going to be different.
- [21:08]
Bob Sturm
You almost need to review after like year one and then again after year three. I mean there's so many ways these teams can evaluate guys like C.J. stroud. After one season everybody's like, well that's the steal of the draft. And now if you did it again Today people would be like, I might like Bryce Young more. You know, a lot of questions about CJ Stroud. So anyway, it's, it's complicated. What also makes it complicated and in my mind a little bit weird is that somebody will say, I only have 12 first round grades. And I will say, well, there's 32 picks in the first round. So what do you mean? Well, when they give them a first round grade in the NFL in front offices, that means this guy is a starter the second he shows up. And a second round grade means we believe he will be a starter, but, but it might take a small amount of time. And then third round is, I believe he's a good backup now and maybe he can grow into a start, you know, so they, they have different definitions of what each grade means. So again, not to muddy the waters, let's get down to business and start talking about guys. Let's do the top five edges. And you want five to one or do you want one to five? How do you want five to one?
- [22:19]
Dominic Robinson
Try to keep, try to keep them around.
- [22:22]
Bob Sturm
Okay. At number five, this is the one that you know because he is fifth there. I had a lot of choices here, a lot of good ones, and I left a lot of players I like off the list. And I also recognize when I look at other, like the consensus list, I know this player is not as highly loved by everybody, but he does attract my eye and that's important to me, of course, because it's my list. So at number five for me, I like the Clemson edge. TJ Parker, he is 632-65-and for me, he is the 3, 4 edge, stand up edge out there in space a little bit. I want a guy who, who looks like he's big enough to handle runs to his side, but also fluid enough and athletic enough to get to the quarterback. To me, he's a big hybrid. He's strong, he competes, he's got long arms. His 2025 tape, not as great. I was very interested in his athletic testing and I think we were both pretty impressed with his RAS number, his relative athletic score. TJ Parker is a controversial figure amongst draft people and to put him on my list, I had to leave some dudes off. That will upset many, including Mezador. And so I put Parker at number five from Clemson.
- [23:58]
TXU Energy Announcer
TXU Energy just introduced new lower rates. If you've been looking for a smarter energy option, this could be the perfect time. Shop TXU Energy's new lower rates and find a plan that fits the way you live.
- [24:13]
Shopify Announcer
What would you do if your online store converted 36% more shoppers? You could take 36% more vacation.
- [24:19]
Dominic Robinson
Another pina colada.
- [24:20]
Sam Slayton
Yes, please.
- [24:21]
Shopify Announcer
Open a new retail location with 36% more square feet.
- [24:25]
Bob Sturm
Fantastic.
- [24:26]
Shopify Announcer
Hire 36% more help.
- [24:28]
TXU Energy Announcer
You're hired and you're hired.
- [24:29]
Shopify Announcer
Shopify has the world's best converting checkout up to 36% better than other e commerce platforms. What you do with those extra sales is up to you. Switch to Shopify today@shopify.com listen and get a $1 trial.
- [24:41]
Safeway and Albertsons Announcer
Shopify.com listen Safeway and Albertsons have made saving easier than ever with great savings on family favorites this week at Safeway and Albertsons. USDA choice beef boneless, tri tip, whole or flank and style ribs bone in are $6.99 per pound member price and asparagus or 199 per pound member price plus 16 ounce strawberries, 6 ounce raspberries or blackberries are 197 each. Limit 3 member price with digital coupon. Hurry in. These deals won't last. Visit Safeway or albertsons.com for more deals and ways to save.
- [25:13]
Dominic Robinson
Yeah, that's, that's again, like you said at five you could really probably take. There's probably three to four names at five that yes, you can get stuck on and they're all, you know, you're not going to go wrong with any of them. Definitely impressed with his tape and, and see him as a, as a second second round grade, you know, early, early second round. Really, really good player.
- [25:43]
Bob Sturm
Yeah. So the guys, well, we'll come back to honorable mention when we're done. Let's try to stay focused here, Bob, because that's something I'm not great at all the time. Okay, number four, this is in the range of where I could See pick number 20 start to talk about this a little bit. And that's Texas A&M's Cassius Howell. Now what's interesting is I also like him at that exact same spot, but he did get knocked at the combine for short arms. Now for me, arm length is a thing for pass rushers, there's no doubt about it. So for us to just, you know, act like it's no big deal, I think that's disingenuous. It is a big deal. And the best pass rushers often have an advantage of long arms and what that allows you to do, well, I mean it allows you to do all sorts of things as a pass rusher. Not only keeping, you know, the hands of an offensive lineman off you but also being able to control with arm length. You see those strong arm pass rushes off the edge that are just so incredible where you can basically get one arm on a 320 pound offensive tackle and sort of steer him around. And some of the strength at the NFL level is absolutely insane. So for how what I loved about him and he is a portal guy like so many guys on this list. But I loved the athleticism, the fluidity, the size I think is really good for a standup edge. If he was, you know, in a 4:3, those arms would make me way more concerned. But I think I like him more as kind of that stand up edge again. And for that I really love the attitude. And I know that gets a little bit more tough to read on just film, but this guy's intense and honestly, that's an attribute I need for pass rushers is I need a motor that doesn't stop. I need relentless effort. And I also don't mind a guy who is barking at the guy across from him and kind of trying to get the attention of the offensive huddle. If you can. If you can get to the quarterback as much as he does and you can sort of have the entire huddle looking at you and wondering why you won't shut up. That's. That's attractive to me. I don't know if it's attractive to everybody, but I like it. The one knock on cash as hell I don't love, aside from the arm length is I do think he can use a little refinement to his pass rush arsenal in that if his original idea doesn't work sometimes he does get stuck. It often does work. That's the good news is that he doesn't usually need as many counters because he is just so doggone explosive and he is a problem and he can beat you. He's got that two way go at times where he can get you inside or around the corner. So I love it. But I do think there's another level for him as we go. Cassius Howell at number four.
- [28:48]
Dominic Robinson
Cassius, how is my number four? Also? We're locked up there. Interesting thing with him. This is another year, another Texas A and M defensive lineman. Every single year where you and I are looking at somebody from Texas A M that we're curious about and in the top five. This one actually shows production with 12 sacks this year to 27 hurries. Some of the other, the past guys we saw potential, but they didn't quite have the production, you know, in terms of sack and pressure. Numbers, you know, and this is, this isn't one. I mean this guy, he's got a great pass rush grade. His pass rush win rate is, is, is pretty high at about 20% which is, puts him in the, you know, the top percentile of guys. So that, you know, this is a, this is a player that's, it's, it's very interesting because the, the number, the production numbers are higher for him. But the sort of, I don't know, pomp and circumstance that surrounds him is a lot less than the guys we've talked about in the past. The shamar last year.
- [30:08]
Bob Sturm
Yeah.
- [30:09]
Dominic Robinson
And I can't remember there was another defensive lineman that we had.
- [30:12]
Bob Sturm
Nick Scorton was also in that group.
- [30:14]
Dominic Robinson
Every year there's one. So it's, it's super interesting the knock
- [30:19]
Bob Sturm
on him and I'm curious what you think of the arm discussion because it comes up with Bane as well. Of course. But. Yeah, but the knock, the knock on how that Bane doesn't suffer from is that it kind of ended with a thud. Whereas Bain went all the way through the national championship game. So the bigger the podium got, the bigger the stage got, the better Bain played Howell. It's not like he's a flat track bully or anything like that. It's not that he got all his numbers against bad teams. He did it. He, he was very productive. He destroyed LSU's offensive line. He was really, really good at Missouri, Auburn. He was killing them. Arkansas was killing them. Although, you know, we could discuss that. My, the thing that keeps me from putting him front half of round one is in the Texas game and in the Miami game, those two A&M losses at the very end when they were undefeated and everything was good, he got a little quiet. So was he playing hurt? Was he run down from the season or did those. And by the way, the tackles on Texas and Miami are both studs. So I'm not acting like, you know, he was going up against me or something, but it got a little quiet in those showdown games where you would hope that he would basically lead his team in, in splash plays or wow moments and so that gave me a little pause on Howell and probably separates him from the top three.
- [31:57]
Dominic Robinson
Exactly. Yeah. He's the, you know, sort of. For me the tears would be. Makes you sit up, you know, that's, that's, that's your, your Ruben Banes of the world. You're watching it and you can't wait for the next film, you know that the next clip or you got to rewind that one because it's so good. You want to see it again? For me, Cassius, how is a, is a lean in? I'm not quite sitting up. It doesn't jump off, but it's a. Okay, I'm, I'm, I, I'm, I'm leaning in a little bit. You know, he's a lean in and, and so for me that puts him in that sort of, you know, top of the second round grade. It's a, he's not a for sure first rounder. You know, talent and the arm length discussion is so interesting to me, Bob. He's in the.01 percentile in arm length. Like it's historically short. Like that has to be something. That has to be something. But then he's also, he's, yeah, it's 12 sacks in the SEC and he's in the 90th percentile in his 10 yard split. So again, he's got something that, that guys don't have. So you, that and I guess that's what makes the difference between, you know, whether he's a, you know, substantial first rounder or a second rounder is there's something. And, and so to me it comes down to how you use them, when you use them. How many snaps does he play? You know, because he can, can he play every snap? Probably not. And, and that's again, do you go spend a first round, you know, expenditure on a guy that you can't play 60 snaps? And so that, you know, that's sort of a question that you'd have to ask inside your front office. And that's, that's where that grade sort of comes in. But I, I struggle with again, this the name of our show Tape over traits. I struggle with looking at that and going, oh, I don't like him. He's no good.
- [34:03]
Bob Sturm
Right?
- [34:03]
Dominic Robinson
He's never gonna. Because I just look at the film and I just, he makes me lean in.
- [34:07]
Bob Sturm
Was great.
- [34:08]
Dominic Robinson
I look at the tape.
- [34:09]
Bob Sturm
Was great.
- [34:10]
Dominic Robinson
And when I look at the film I go, that's a, that's a good football player. I care that he can play football with his short arms. That, that matters to me more than just looking at his arms and going, nope, I don't care that I see him with my own eyes playing good football. That's all I need to see. That's all that matters to me is I want to see good football. I'm not going to be ruled by, by the, by the tape measure when
- [34:34]
Bob Sturm
he's kicking my tail for the next 10 years. I can I can tell myself that he just didn't have, you know, another inch on each arm. Yeah, and that's, you know, that's the thing. Okay, so into the top three we go. Who'd you have to fight? By the way,
- [34:51]
Dominic Robinson
my 5 was actually not in your list.
- [34:55]
Bob Sturm
Okay.
- [34:55]
Dominic Robinson
Keldrick Falk. Okay.
- [34:58]
Bob Sturm
Yeah, yeah, yeah, Auburn.
- [34:59]
Dominic Robinson
So he's one of those.
- [35:04]
Bob Sturm
The thing with Falk is, is that I guess I had him eighth and, and I promised we would circle back. But I do want to hear about your fifth. To me, he's giant. Of course. In fact, if you look at him, you can see a little Calais Campbell, and I kind of wonder if he is a five technique. Now, he's not the same thing as Clay's Campbell, but on the tape, it's just like this dude is bigger and stronger than everybody else. I feel like you must double team him. And I also feel he's just a baby at age 20. He's very active. The, the knock on him is, does he get to the quarterback enough? Is he in the backfield enough to give the type of value that would be required to get into the top five? And so I struggled with that. I think it might be more scheme specific, but that's kind of where I netted out on Keldrick Falk. I love him. I just don't know that I can. I don't know how much I can invest in a guy who at times did not spend enough time in the backfield. I think, I think, honestly, September tape, he was very splashy, but as the season went on, and again, we don't know what these guys are dealing with just to play. Some of them are. Are playing at 80% or 70%, but I saw a little less backfield explosion out of him as the season went up.
- [36:39]
Dominic Robinson
Yeah, 100%. You know, just so you guys could. Just for a reference point, most of these guys pass rush grades are going to be in the 80s, and his is in. Is 66, you know, but his run defense grade is probably higher than all these guys. It's like 85 or something. You know, it's so again, it's more. What is your flavor? He had two. He had two sacks and 27 hurries. So what you're talking about in terms of, you know, sort of splashes in the backfield, that's. That's not his game. So it's sort of what. What's your flavor? You know, what are you looking for? Like you said, is he a five technique or a nine technique? You know, and so this is where the, you know, sort of styles make fights. And you could have rotated for me at that 5 position just based off of your flavor. I love TJ Parker. I could have taken him there. There. There's multiple guys that I, I could have put there. And I just landed Mason Thomas. Exactly.
- [37:45]
Bob Sturm
You know.
- [37:45]
Dominic Robinson
Yep.
- [37:46]
Bob Sturm
Yeah, there's, there's guys and I landed
- [37:48]
Dominic Robinson
there just out of getting sort of providing a different taste or flavor than the other guys in the group. Like I said, everyone else in the, in the group is going to have very high pass rush grades and lower run. Run grades. And this guy is going to have the highest run grade of the five of my top five. So I wanted to have one in there and that's, that's where I went. But he's not twitched up. That's the thing that sort of, that's, that's what goes a little different to what I typically have is usually guys that are twitchy and super athletic and you know, sort of they play tight end in high school or even, even, even in college. Those are typically the guys that I'm going to go for. So, you know, it's just kind of. He's out of my, my typical, you know, liking at edge. But I love the fact that if I do need a, even a three technique, a pass rushing three technique or something like that, I could move him there and I can play him as a five technique or, you know, in a, or four technique. In a, in a three down front.
- [38:57]
Bob Sturm
Okay. So I have to imagine our top three are the same three guys because I do think three guys are off on their own in this draft. Now, they're all different players. We need to discuss them each. But is it fair to say your top three is some combination of Bailey, Bain, Reese?
- [39:16]
Dominic Robinson
No. No.
- [39:19]
TXU Energy Announcer
TXU Energy just introduced new lower rates. If you've been looking for a smarter energy option, this could be the perfect time. Shop TXU Energy's new lower rates and find a plan that fits the way you live.
- [39:34]
Sam Slayton
Hi, I'm Adam Devine, chief fundraiser for Children's Miracle Network.
- [39:40]
Bob Sturm
No, no, no, no, no.
- [39:41]
Sam Slayton
I said more fun. When I was a kid, a Children's Miracle Network hospital helped me get back on my feet, literally. So trust me when I say that these places aren't just hospitals, they are hoop factories. Children's Miracle Network is hospitals, programs, partners and donors like you. Join us in making big change for all kids. Visit us online@cmn.org well, well, well.
- [40:05]
Dominic Robinson
I've got one in there and I and I've already mentioned him as a potential cowboy target also.
- [40:11]
Bob Sturm
Okay. All right, well. Well, then let me run through these, and then we can rate and debate Arvell Reese and Ruben Bain. I guess, to use draft terms, their tags are touching, which means the grade on the whiteboard is nearly identical. They're not identical players in any way, shape or form. But if you want to say Bob has a tie for second or a tie for third or he can't decide, and actually we'll go back and forth and I can make the case that both of them belong as like a top five pick in this draft. All three of these guys got a cheat grade. A cheat grade for me that I call high first round, and that usually there's like five to eight maybe, you know, really crazy year 10 guys. And then first round is usually the top 25 slots after the high first round. And then I go first, second, which is like 20 to 40. So I cheat my way through this a little bit to try to put them in the right neighborhoods. I think David Bailey could be the best player in this draft, personally. And then I think Bain and Reese are really good, but just a smidge behind Bailey. So if you make me place them right now, I would say Arvell Reese is my three, and that means there are two guys in front of him. But that also, I want you to know, he could be the best player in this draft. Arvel Reese, the reason I have him three is I just haven't seen enough of it. He's really young, and the way Ohio State has such a football factory, they would only pass rush him in certain times. Like, if you go look for his actual edge rushing snaps in the Ohio State season, you will find games where he's not doing it at all. And it's. You're like, what are they doing? Why are they not using this guy? Because honestly, if you had to say, who's the player he most resembles? It's freaking Micah Parsons. Like, there is such an amount of sick speed, explosiveness, twitch, however you want to say it, bend. Like, he does look like a freak. But why do I have to go searching for his pass rush snaps? Well, they might say because we're so loaded and we have so many guys and we have so many guys who can do multiple things, including Reese, that some weeks we want him to do A, but other weeks we want him to do C. And we're going to. We're not. We're not putting our defensive game plan together for your draft preview tape. You know, we are doing it to win another national title, which they darn near almost did again. So I don't know what to say except every player on Ohio State's defense looks like an NFL player. We're going to talk about a bunch of them this spring and Arvell Reese is absolutely fantastic. He, he, he's, he's just, he has it all. Twitch, fluidity, quickness. It's just he's young and there are times, especially down the stretch from like November 1 on, where the amount of damage he did on the, on a quarterback is incredibly small, incredibly unimpressive. And you would like to see, like Cassius Howe, your best tape as the season ends, which is what again? Bane and Mezadore did so well. And so I think if he stayed in another year in college, any of my concerns would be wiped off. And I'm not even sure I have concerns. Arvel Reese is an absolute stud and he probably shouldn't be around after the top five. And yet this edge class is so loaded. I think he's my third and I even feel weird saying that.
- [44:21]
Dominic Robinson
Yeah, yeah, go ahead and go on to your number two. Okay. At number two, he's phenomenal. He's great.
- [44:28]
Bob Sturm
At number two is a completely different player. Ruben Bane. Ruben Bane is a good 30 pounds heavier than Arvel Reese and he is. Heck, his hairline looks like I did at age 21 in terms of. I'm not sure it's going to be around much longer, buddy, but at least you're going to be extremely rich and famous. He has power, he has disposition, he has an arsenal of moves that would be clinic tape on how to rush the passer. He knows what he's doing and to find out that he was doing it with real short arms makes it even more impressive. Now I will say with him, arm length and wingspan are different and I think his wingspan is way closer to normal, which means he has a broad chest. And so there are many things physically that might be a little deceiving, which is why we will tell you again, watch the freaking games and watch Ruben Bane and watch him do whatever he wants to do. I'm a little concerned with how wide we put him because I'm not sure he's a real chase down guy on the edge. I think he is athletic enough. I just think I'd like to probably use him a little more inside the tackle box. Heck, I think he could be a nickel down dt, honestly, the way he could handle things inside, you know, look, he's, he's definitely not DeMarcus Ware, but he is, he's a different type. Maybe an old school defensive end, maybe more of a 4, 3 guy, which is fine because Nickel is base, as we know. And you know, how does anybody watch this college football season and not walk away thinking Ruben Bane is a stud? He is. I love him. He's a top five pick and there you go.
- [46:18]
Dominic Robinson
Yeah, I got to see it in person. And like I said, he plays for the rival school. And I have nothing negative to say about him. Is he's just a phenomenal, phenomenal player and deserves to be in the. There's, it's impossible that he, he can make it to 12 to the cowboys. He's, he's just, he's too good.
- [46:46]
Bob Sturm
Okay. And at number one, I never thought I'd have a Texas Tech pass rusher as my number one player, probably in the draft, but definitely at this position. He's a double digit sack guy right out of college. I think his potential's off the charts. Every down he can play, he has size, he has twitch, he has bend, he has motor, he won't even wear gloves. He's so old school. He's out there with bare hands, which you never see in the trenches anymore. I was blown away. In fact, when he arrived at Texas Tech, people said he'd be blown away. And I got super cynical and I'm like, oh, we'll see about that. I mean, Stanford to Texas Tech, why isn't he in the SEC or the Big Ten or something like that? Well, look, Texas Tech had a defense that we might look back in 10 years and call it historically great. It was unbelievable. Watching them play Oregon in that bowl game was so sick. They were so good, even though they had really no chance to win that game because their offense was so bad. But David Bailey's the truth. I, I do, I do see the double digit sack guy to be a real, real rare thing. And yet I'm pretty convinced that's him. Usually guys with his traits are not, you know, they don't have 260 in their potential. I do think he could play a little heavier. I think he was probably, I don't know what he weighed at the combine, but I know he was listed all year at the low 250s, but I think he could get bigger if he wants. But I think he's plenty explosive and he has that chase down that I love from the stand up edge. And so I love David Bailey. I think he's incredible.
- [48:42]
Dominic Robinson
Yeah. Okay, so I'll give you my Top three and let's go tell you sort of what happened. So at number three, I have Macedor. I love Macedor.
- [48:58]
Bob Sturm
I do too.
- [48:59]
Dominic Robinson
I don't feel like my assessment of him matches the consensus. Maybe it does. I don't know. I don't spend a lot of time looking at other people's stuff. But it, I don't feel like he gets talked about enough and I don't.
- [49:15]
Bob Sturm
Is it.
- [49:16]
Dominic Robinson
I'm not positive.
- [49:16]
Bob Sturm
Think it's all. Well, I mean the. He's going to be 25 on opening day. Right.
- [49:23]
Dominic Robinson
And that might be it. Yeah, that, that, that might be it. He's 25 now from. He's 25 now.
- [49:28]
Bob Sturm
Let's say this, and I didn't mean to cut you off on Mazador. I want to hear it all. But, but I, I do think it's important to say this. If you're a team playing for now, which the Cowboys should be, then you probably shouldn't be too worried about a second contract. You should be worried about getting guys who can step in September of 2026 and whoop some tail. And Akeem Mazador can be that guy. So I didn't put him in my top five. But if I was playing for right now, which is this three or four year window where you still have Dak Prescott and CD Lamb and Quinn and Williams all in their primes, then I would have no problem jumping on Mazador. So back to you. But I just wanted to say I didn't put him in my top five because he's so old, but I don't think that's why he's great. It's not like a guy playing against little kids and in that age advantage. I think he's been a excellent player for a long time. It is a concern though, if I was rebuilding that I would be drafting a guy who's going to be 29 when we have to talk extension. So that's weird. But if I'm the Cowboys, why would that concern me at all?
- [50:37]
Dominic Robinson
Yeah, absolutely. And that may be the reason why I have him so high because. Or actually let me go back. I did talk about on the, on the Musers podcast with you if you can, if he's sliding and you can trade that 12 spot and still get him as your first round pick at 20. You are really, really doing something at 12 that's a little too rich for my blood because like you said, at 12 I gotta go get a guy that I can have a shot at in my second contract. I don't want a 29 year old with my 12th pick, you know, for their second contract. I want to go get who the heck did.
- [51:22]
Bob Sturm
I want to know who you left off. Now this is driving me crazy.
- [51:27]
Dominic Robinson
So with him 67 pressures, 13 stacks, 21% pass rush win rate, just consistently gets a jump on the ball. Now mind you, 67 pressures on a defense where the guy opposite you leads the country in pressures, with Ruben Bane at 87 or something, 83, that's really hard. You don't give out two pressures on a play. So if Bane's getting 86 of them or 83 or whatever that number is and he's leading the country, that doesn't leave a lot for you to also go get pressures. A also had 12 sacks himself. So you have 13, he has 12. You know how many opportunities to have sacks are there if he's getting them down 13 times that you're the, you're also there. So to put up again, this is the production over, over potential argument. It's hard to get those numbers when the guy opposite you is one of the best in the country. It's really, really hard. His production numbers should be way lower and they aren't. They're as if he's a, he's a frontline pass rusher. If he was the number one and the only guy that those numbers are good enough, you know, 13 sacks, if he was the, the leading sack guy on his team or the only guy sack guy on his team, that number would be high enough. So. And also I will say 68 coverage snaps, so he's drops a little bit. So now you're talking about versatility. He can do it and he won 20 times on inside moves. So he's physical enough to, to beat guys on the inside. I, I'd love. I just, I really, really like this guy and again, got to see him in person and I. There were times where I thought he was better than Bane or at least more explosive. I don't know if he's better, but there's just. Or more splash. I shouldn't say explosive, but just okay. Yeah, I felt like there were times that he had more of a splash than, than Bane.
- [53:32]
Bob Sturm
So who's two?
- [53:33]
Dominic Robinson
So two and one are the same to me. I really struggled with this because I love Bane, but I did think that David Bailey is probably the best defensive lineman in the country. And like you said, I think he may be the best player in the draft. So I couldn't put Bane in front of him. But then I did I put Bane at one and it probably was because I watched it in person. I never got to see David Bailey play in person and I watched when I watched Ruben Bane in person and so I put Bane at 1. Although I think that David Bailey is potentially the best player in the draft, which doesn't quite make sense. Right. Okay, so I left off Arvell Reese and the reason is these other guys have 500 pass rush reps or Val Reese has one or 100. Sorry, 100. So I'm going to have him in my linebacker rankings or ratings.
- [54:23]
Bob Sturm
Okay.
- [54:23]
Dominic Robinson
And so I did not put him on here, but if I were rating him, there's no way I would have him below Messador. He would be, he would probably be. So my, mine would have matched yours. I would have had him at three. I just thought that I, I want to see his edge rush numbers higher in order to rate him as an edge rusher. And I personally like the potential of him being an off the ball linebacker. That edge rush is similar to, to the Micah, early Micah before he went to all edge or all sort of all D linemen towards, towards the end of, of Micah's tenure with the Cowboys.
- [55:05]
Bob Sturm
Okay. Okay, that makes a lot of sense. I didn't know what to do with him, but those pass rush snaps were pretty sweet.
- [55:13]
Dominic Robinson
They're as good as anybody. So you gotta, you kind of want to put him there. But I sort of projected probably. I probably projected my own thoughts in terms of if I was a defensive coordinator.
- [55:24]
Bob Sturm
Yeah.
- [55:25]
Dominic Robinson
And I would want. I would think of him as my linebacker, my hybrid linebacker. I wouldn't think of him as Justin Edge. So I think that's how I rated him, you know, or at least that's where I put him.
- [55:37]
Bob Sturm
Okay, so. So my top five. Bailey, Bane, Reese, Howell, Parker. Your top five. I think if I did this right, Bain, Bailey, Mezzador.
- [55:50]
Dominic Robinson
Yep.
- [55:51]
Bob Sturm
Howell and Falk.
- [55:53]
Dominic Robinson
Yep.
- [55:54]
Bob Sturm
Okay, so let's, let's mention briefly. I know we, we should wrap this up but. But I did want to mention the other four or did. Look at that we haven't talked about here. I guess there's four of them. Our Mason Thomas. I did not know I would like him as much as I did. He plays really fast, great moves, motor really heavy hands. Man. He, he can smack dudes around. He's just a little small. So we're going to use the term DPR designated pass rusher for some of these guys. I think he's better than a dpr. But I also wonder, can he hold up against the run. I like him a lot. He's a really nice top 50 player. I just don't know. I just don't know if I can go a lot higher than that. But if you watched Oklahoma this year, that dude's a clear and present danger. Those games he missed, they weren't the same defense. I think our Mason Thomas is a dude.
- [56:58]
Dominic Robinson
Yeah. And I'm good with him at 5 and, you know, swapping someone out and. And I'll just add, I love the fact that he came into college like 215. That signals. And if I'm a. If I'm a pro team, I like that because he's just learning how to use that weight strength, added weight strength. So his potential to me, to, to become a, you know, a pro, an all pro later in his career, to me is higher than maybe somebody who came into college fully developed and ready to go. So I, I like the potential that he has. And like you said, heavy hands and really good athlete and a guy who I think has a lot, a lot of growth, you know, ahead of.
- [57:53]
Bob Sturm
Yeah. So my. I mean, if you add my top five to three other guys I love in Mazador, Thomas and Falk, we're talking like eight dudes that I could definitely say, man, you go get this guy. I think you feel really good about. You've probably added a starter for your defensive line. Now. I've did three other guys and I have varying levels of interest in each. I would not say I would get crazy about any of them, but from best to worst or least, I mean, let's be honest. If we're talking about them, they're going to play in the NFL. So it's not like these guys are useless, but they have some limitations. So the guy I like the most of this trio is Zion Young from Missouri. There's no reason he can't be great. It's just he's not there yet. He is. If you want to do a tape over traits, he would be traits over tape. Where he is. He is really long and tall and athletic. He just doesn't quite know what he's doing. Unrefined moves. I'm not sure he's going to be much use against the run. And so if you're a designated pass rusher but your moves have a ways to go, then I don't know what to do with you on draft day. And I would kind of hope somebody else takes you so I don't have to deal with it. But, you know, we could be sitting here in Five years saying, how did we miss on Zion Young? He's. He's clearly a problem at the SEC level, so I'm not gonna, not gonna tell you. He stinks. He doesn't stink at all. Romelo Height from Texas Tech. I don't know, man. He, he gets to the quarterback, but it's all on speed. Who was the guy from West Virginia that was like this? He was a great designated pass rusher. Went to Seattle. I'm trying to remember. I mean, it's like a decade ago is Legion of Boom. But he was these guys who are pass rushers, but they do it all on speed, which basically means they're great with stunts where they can actually beat you to the landmark and just kind of outrace you to the quarterback. But if they can't do that and you can engage them, they're kind of not the same guy. He doesn't have. So I guess what I'm saying is if you can get a block on him, you don't have to worry about him nearly as much. I don't see the power. I don't see the physicality or the edge. And also he's kind of old too, but unlike Mazador, he's old in a way where I feel like the clock is ticking against him. So he was really good in college, but I just don't know that he has the physicality at the NFL level to be worth a super high pick. So it's probably a no for me. Dog on Romello Height until like round three. And then the one I don't even know about day two, LT Overton, who was a clear five star when he went to A and M and then transferred to Alabama. And I'm sorry, at both schools, I just haven't seen anything resembling like splash plays and production. Like, he's a guy. He can definitely be a guy out there and do his job, but he's not going to jump off the tape at you. And so I just wanted to mention each of those three guys as there's varying levels of value. But I just don't think we're talking about the type of guy. With Romello Hyde. I was talking about Bruce Irvin. They're not exactly the same guy, but that's the guy. I was trying to think of his name a second ago.
- [61:25]
Dominic Robinson
Got it. Yeah. Going to do our annual tradition like no other. You're talking Texas, Texas Tech, or, sorry, Texas A M defensive lineman, you know, LT Overton, transfer from Texas A M. Interest, Definite interest. But I don't Know, and then Anthony Lucas, Texas A M transfer to usc, both second day guys that I don't quite have in that, you know, sort of our, what we have as our number five ranking, but guys that have some interest, that have some, something that, you know, sparks your, your curiosity but just never quite satisfies what you're looking for. This is, we're doing this every year when, when we get to the Texas A and M guys, either guys that are there, guys that transferred out of there or guys that transferred into there. It just seems like for some reason with, they, they have a magnet for this guy that, that is, you know, a lot of potential, I guess. And, and you just don't know what you're going to get from them at the NFL level. So those are, you know, two guys that I wanted to mention that I, I thought, you know, I'm, I'm interested in, I'm intrigued in, but like you said, sort of various levels of interest or sort of, you know, sort of a cost benefit analysis when you get to them, it's like, man, I can't go first two rounds with you and especially if I don't trade down and get and gain some other picks from it.
- [62:57]
Bob Sturm
Right? Yeah. You know, it's interesting with A and M and I think I said this last year, a school that produces Von Miller and Myles Garrett clearly knows what they're doing with pass rushers.
- [63:06]
Dominic Robinson
Correct.
- [63:07]
Bob Sturm
But it's weird that they don't have those double digit sack guys off the edge as often as you think. Now Cassius Howell is clearly a revival in that direction and maybe they have with Elko, have started to figure out what type of guy they're looking for a little bit better. But Jimbo would bring in five stars and we would hear that they're going to take over the world, but it would just never happen.
- [63:33]
Dominic Robinson
Yeah.
- [63:33]
Bob Sturm
All right, well, I said like 45 minutes. We went over an hour again. That's our tradition here. We're gonna, we're gonna try to do better next time. I think we're doing corners next time
- [63:43]
Dominic Robinson
we are corners and I'm serving.
- [63:45]
Bob Sturm
Okay, tape over traits will be back soon. We get to corners, then we get to linebackers. And like we said, this will be a heavy defensive focus here for our first batch of these. But we appreciate you staying with us however you're consuming this and we will talk with you next time on Tape over Treats. So long you've been listening to a KTCK sports podcast presentation.
- [64:20]
TXU Energy Announcer
TXU Energy just introduced new lower rates. If you've been looking for a smarter energy option. This could be the perfect time. Shop TXU Energy's new lower rates and find a plan that fits the way you live.