28. Are We in the End Times? War, Whiffs and Trump Bombs

Summary

Summary of The Tim & April Show - Episode 28: "Are We in the End Times? War, Whiffs and Trump Bombs"

Podcast Information:

• Title: The Tim & April Show
• Host/Author: The New Evangelicals
• Description: Where we unravel faith, politics, and culture.
• Episode: 28. Are We in the End Times? War, Whiffs and Trump Bombs
• Release Date: June 27, 2025

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1. Introduction and Personal Updates

The episode begins with Tim Whitaker and April Ajoy exchanging casual greetings and sharing personal anecdotes. April recounts her daughter’s ninth birthday party, highlighting the creativity involved in making a mini whodunit film with the children. Tim shares his struggles with dehydration due to excessive coffee consumption, setting a relatable tone for listeners.

2. Addressing Fake News and Fact-Checking

A significant portion of the discussion centers around the prevalence of fake news, particularly a viral video purportedly showing Donald Trump whiffing a golf shot. Both hosts admit initially believing the video, only to discover it was doctored. April emphasizes the importance of fact-checking in an age rife with misinformation:

April Ajoy [06:42]: "Let this just be a lesson to all of us, including myself, because I did fall for that video. Fact check. Fact check."

Tim echoes this sentiment, stressing the necessity of hard evidence before promoting claims about election fraud:

Tim Whitaker [08:10]: "I'm not saying it's out of the realm of possibility... But until I have hard evidence... I'm not gonna promote that on this show personally."

3. NYC Mayoral Race and Zoran Mamdani's Victory

The hosts pivot to discuss the surprising outcome of the New York City mayoral race, where Democratic Socialist Zoran Mamdani won the primary against the favored Andrew Cuomo. They express relief and approval of Mamdani's progressive platform, viewing it as a positive shift in political dynamics:

April Ajoy [12:09]: "His resume is very impressive... he seems like a really nice, like, cool, empathetic guy."

Tim further elaborates on Mamdani’s policies, highlighting their alignment with progressive values such as affordable housing, fair wages, and LGBTQIA protections:

Tim Whitaker [16:38]: "He wants to freeze the rent in New York City, build affordable housing... raise labor wages to $30 an hour by 2030... This is what you and I talk about on the show almost weekly."

4. Evangelical and Christian Nationalist Response

The conversation shifts to the reaction from Christian nationalists and evangelicals, who label Mamdani as a "communist lunatic" and "radical lefty." Tim criticizes the hypocrisy and racism underpinning these responses, drawing parallels to historical white supremacist ideologies:

Tim Whitaker [22:52]: "White supremacy is here. It's here. This is what's going on. It is unbelievable to witness."

April adds that such rhetoric fuels Islamophobia and xenophobia, further marginalizing non-white communities:

April Ajoy [24:34]: "I have to unlearn Islamophobia because it was just in the water... We are Christian and we don't like when people lump us in with crazy white supremacist Christian nationalists."

5. End Times Theology and Evangelical Enthusiasm

A contentious topic discussed is the endorsement of end times theology among white evangelicals, who view Middle Eastern conflicts as fulfillment of biblical prophecy. Both hosts express concern over leaders who preach about the imminent apocalypse, often supporting war as a divine sign:

Tim Whitaker [46:56]: "The Bible says exactly at the moment when it looks like all hope is lost, the Lord himself, Jesus Christ, will descend... he will win the war once and for all."

April shares her personal struggles with rapture anxiety, recounting traumatic experiences rooted in dispensationalist teachings:

April Ajoy [53:38]: "I was having a panic attack because I genuinely believe now that I have been left behind at 13 years old."

Tim critiques the theological foundations of these beliefs, asserting that mainstream Christianity does not subscribe to such apocalyptic ideologies:

Tim Whitaker [52:01]: "Most Christians, both historically and today, do not believe any of this. It is a uniquely American evangelical phenomenon."

6. Racist Incident at Hetero Awesome Fest in Idaho

The hosts highlight a disturbing incident at the Hetero Awesome Fest in Idaho, where racist remarks were made by a podcast host. They condemn the speaker’s comments endorsing segregation and anti-LGBTQIA sentiments:

April Ajoy [71:22]: "He says, 'diversity is a weakness, not a strength. The LGBTQIA movement is satanic.'"

Tim underscores the alignment of such remarks with Christian nationalist and white supremacist ideologies:

Tim Whitaker [72:06]: "He cites his quote unquote Christian beliefs to prove that he's not racist. Wow."

7. Personal Experiences with Rapture Theology

April openly shares her traumatic experience with rapture theology during her teenage years, illustrating the emotional and psychological toll of such beliefs:

April Ajoy [73:25]: "I started to panic... I genuinely believed that I have been left behind at 13 years old."

Tim discusses the historical origins of rapture theology, attributing its rise to 19th-century dispensationalism and its impact on contemporary evangelical thought:

Tim Whitaker [53:14]: "This was largely invented in the 19th century... books like The Late Great Planet Earth and Left Behind really put it into the average American evangelical psyche."

8. Critique of Christian Supremacy and Hypocrisy

Both hosts vehemently oppose Christian supremacy, pointing out the inherent racism and hypocrisy within certain evangelical circles. They argue that actions and rhetoric from leaders like Jeff Howerton and Michele Bachmann contradict true Christian values:

Tim Whitaker [45:28]: "It's fucking disgusting, April."

April Ajoy [75:41]: "People who say they don't see color are lying. Stop lying."

9. Final Remarks and Community Acknowledgment

In their concluding segment, Tim and April express gratitude to their listeners, emphasizing the importance of community in navigating challenging times. They encourage continued support through likes, subscriptions, and merchandise purchases, reinforcing their commitment to addressing issues of faith, politics, and culture:

Tim Whitaker [83:16]: "I am super, super grateful for all of you who tune in... It's cathartic for both of us."

April Ajoy [84:48]: "These are scary, unprecedented times that we're living in, and I do think community is very important."

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• April Ajoy [06:42]: "Let this just be a lesson to all of us, including myself, because I did fall for that video. Fact check. Fact check."

• Tim Whitaker [08:10]: "I'm not saying it's out of the realm of possibility... But until I have hard evidence... I'm not gonna promote that on this show personally."

• April Ajoy [12:09]: "His resume is very impressive... he seems like a really nice, like, cool, empathetic guy."

• Tim Whitaker [16:38]: "He wants to freeze the rent in New York City, build affordable housing... raise labor wages to $30 an hour by 2030... This is what you and I talk about on the show almost weekly."

• Tim Whitaker [22:52]: "White supremacy is here. It's here. This is what's going on. It is unbelievable to witness."

• April Ajoy [24:34]: "I have to unlearn Islamophobia because it was just in the water... We are Christian and we don't like when people lump us in with crazy white supremacist Christian nationalists."

• Tim Whitaker [46:56]: "The Bible says exactly at the moment when it looks like all hope is lost, the Lord himself, Jesus Christ, will descend... he will win the war once and for all."

• April Ajoy [53:38]: "I was having a panic attack because I genuinely believe now that I have been left behind at 13 years old."

• Tim Whitaker [53:14]: "This was largely invented in the 19th century... books like The Late Great Planet Earth and Left Behind really put it into the average American evangelical psyche."

• April Ajoy [71:22]: "He says, 'diversity is a weakness, not a strength. The LGBTQIA movement is satanic.'"

• Tim Whitaker [72:06]: "He cites his quote unquote Christian beliefs to prove that he's not racist. Wow."

• April Ajoy [73:25]: "I started to panic... I genuinely believed that I have been left behind at 13 years old."

• Tim Whitaker [75:32]: "He won't apologize for a podcast that he invited to be at the event saying that the city is better without black people."

• April Ajoy [84:48]: "These are scary, unprecedented times that we're living in, and I do think community is very important."

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Conclusion

Episode 28 of The Tim & April Show delves deep into the intersections of faith, politics, and culture, critically examining the rise of Christian nationalism, the implications of end times theology, and the pervasive influence of racism and Islamophobia within evangelical circles. Through candid discussions, personal anecdotes, and incisive critiques, Tim and April provide listeners with a comprehensive analysis of current sociopolitical dynamics, urging vigilance against misinformation and the harmful ideologies that threaten societal cohesion.

Transcript

[April Ajoy]

You're listening to a new evangelicals production, the Tim and April show, where we unravel faith, politics and culture.

[Tim Whitaker]

Hi everyone.

[April Ajoy]

I was just jamming that time.

[Tim Whitaker]

You were?

[April Ajoy]

I was doing a dance and that was my hope that it would signal for you to start us off.

[Tim Whitaker]

Hi everyone. Welcome to the Tim and April show. I am Tim Whitaker.

[April Ajoy]

I am April Ajoy.

[Tim Whitaker]

Welcome in. Welcome into the live stream. We go live every Thursday at 12:00 Eastern. Of course, as you would expect, we have a packed show today. We're talking about Iran and this so called ceasefire deal that never was. We're talking about what happened in New York City, huh. With a brand new Democratic candidate running for mayor. We're going to talk about Zoran Mamdani and what that means. We're talking about end times theology because so many white evangelicals are just ecstatic that there's a potential for all that war to break out in the Middle East. So welcome in. Please give the video a like make sure that you're subscribed to the channel so you don't miss any future episodes. Hi April. It's good to see you.

[April Ajoy]

It is good to see you too. How art thou on this very hot summer day?

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah, that's the problem. I'm hot as hell. I. I don't handle heat well. I'm pretty. And also I. Everyone who listens to the show knows this. I drink pretty much only coffee and it kind of caught up with me yesterday. I think I was ultra dehydrated, so I got really sick. I had like muscle pains and aches and I just wasn't feeling myself. So I'm trying to hydrate more. Yeah, I'm not even drinking blueberry coffee right now. I'm drinking water with some like hydrating lemonade, mixing stuff.

[April Ajoy]

So maybe this will be a little blessing in disguise, you know, get. Get you hydrated. Maybe body just needed it. And it was a way of saying, hey, get me water please.

[Tim Whitaker]

How are you doing?

[April Ajoy]

I'm doing good. It is summer and this week was my oldest daughter's ninth birthday. So we threw this big party for her over the weekend where there were a bunch of screaming, almost fourth graders in our house. But she wanted to do a movie party. So watch like watch a movie. But then Beecher, who's a filmmaker, was like, what if we make a movie too? So her and all her friends, they filmed like this whodunit and all of the party guests were suspects and they asked questions. And so while they watched the actual movie, which was the New live action Snow White. The Beecher edited the film and then at the end they all got to watch their own little quick six minute movie that they made.

[Tim Whitaker]

Why? Is Beecher like the best person ever?

[April Ajoy]

They really are. I mean, is he the person who.

[Tim Whitaker]

Made you your own? Guess who, with all of your different iterations of like your different characters. I mean, it's amazing. They're wonderful.

[April Ajoy]

Yeah, it was fun. We were very tired by the end of it though. I didn't realize how loud 9 and 10 year old girls could be when packed into a house.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

[April Ajoy]

Very loud. It took us a couple of days to recover. We were pretty tired. But. But it was a lot of fun.

[Tim Whitaker]

I love that. Well, I mean, you want to kind of get into it. Oh, actually, before we do, let me just say, friends, if you're watching, we have new merch that we dropped maybe a few weeks ago. Now we have this shirt. It says I commit sins of empathy. And we plastered it on mugs. We plastered it on for the. Those of you who still want to spend time with the Lord in the morning and you want a journal, you can have it on a. On a. Yep, I know. A moleskin journal. And we have some other designs too in our merch store. So the link is in the show notes or the. The description. It's the first link. All of course purchases go to supporting this work, making this show possible and making the work at tne possible. I got to say, I'm reading some of the comments here and I'm seeing people say that they're ready for some tna. I don't know if we created a monster April.

[April Ajoy]

I mean, after last week's, the way that we ended it, I mean, that felt like tna.

[Tim Whitaker]

You know, it was pretty. If you, if you didn't see what happened last week's episode, go back and watch it. It's also on podcast. Towards the end, we had a real impromptu moment that became. It was a moment. Well, we'll just say that, yeah, it was, I guess, some kind of version of Christian smut. I don't know. It was really weird.

[April Ajoy]

It was something for. That's the golf tracker. Let's go.

[Tim Whitaker]

Right.

[April Ajoy]

The last few times we've brought it up, he was trending down.

[Tim Whitaker]

Right, right, right, right.

[April Ajoy]

He's trending back up. So he had. He's been in office now for 157 days. He has spent 38 of those days golfing. Last time we checked, it was, I think at 22%. So he has now gone back up to 24.2% of his time in office has been spent golfing. And while we're on this topic, I have a confession to make.

[Tim Whitaker]

Okay.

[April Ajoy]

I have fallen for some fake news. I. There's this video of Donald Trump playing golf going around from this past week, and he whiffs it. He whiffs the ball and then just picks the ball back up as if he didn't just completely miss the ball when he swung. Do you want to play it? Is this the video here? This is it. This is it, right?

[Tim Whitaker]

He's on the tee. I love the bosses. Yay. He works so hard with middle. Finding peace in the Middle East. Yay. So he's warming up here.

[April Ajoy]

He's just practicing. Yeah, he's whiffing, but this is intentional. So then he totally just misses, and then he picks the whole thing up like it didn't happen.

[Tim Whitaker]

Okay.

[April Ajoy]

And it was being shared by a lot of people. It was that were saying it was real and were making fun of him. And to be fair, I also believed it was real, because I do think if he were to ever whiff a ball, he probably would pretend that he didn't just.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yes.

[April Ajoy]

With the ball.

[Tim Whitaker]

100%. That would be a great video.

[April Ajoy]

That video was fake. They had it. Like, they literally had to write an article to say, hey, that video is fake. Stop sharing it. And I just want to say, I'm going to get on my soapbox for a second.

[Tim Whitaker]

Go ahead.

[April Ajoy]

I get very annoyed when people. Because the right has always done this, but I've been seeing more lately people from the left or just people that are not Trumpers sharing tweets or truths from Donald Trump that he posts on his Truth Social that are clear, that are not. That are just fake. They're. They're Photoshopped, but they're. They're sharing it. And I don't think. I think a lot of people are sharing them because they think they're real. Fact check. It's literally why I have a Truth Social account. I never post on there. I just have one so that when I see something online of Trump saying something that is absolutely insane, because here's the thing, he says insane stuff all the time. We don't need to be making stuff up in addition to the insane stuff, But a lot of times I'll go and look. And he never said that. So let this just be a lesson to all of us, including myself, because I did fall for that video. Fact check, Fact check.

[Tim Whitaker]

Fact check.

[April Ajoy]

It's important, especially in a world of fake News and all of that. And I don't like it on either side or from. No matter who it does. If you're sharing something that's not factual, I'm not a fan.

[Tim Whitaker]

It's also. It's also why. And look, I'm just gonna be honest with some people. I've seen some folks out there saying that the election was probably rigged. And. And this is why we don't spread that stuff, because we need evidence. Like, hard evidence. Not. Not. There was a problem in a county. We need hard evidence before we start saying things like the election was rigged. And there's been.

[April Ajoy]

But there is a court case in New York, though, about.

[Tim Whitaker]

In New York. Yeah, that's right. But even. Let's say. Let's say that thing in New York was totally fraudulent, it would still not affect the overall outcome of the election. And I'm just trying to be consistent with what I said in 2020, because in any election, you can always find cases of fraud or people not voting legally. That happened. There's millions, Millions of people are voting. It's going to happen. But the question is, was there enough and was it intentional to overturn what would have been an election result?

[April Ajoy]

And.

[Tim Whitaker]

And just like in 2020, even with all the cases of fraud, they were so minuscule in the grand scheme of things, they had no impact on the election outcome. I'm not even close to saying, well, guys, I think that there was such widespread fraud in this past election that everything was, you know, was actually incorrect and they actually stole the election from us. And I'm not saying it's not possible. I'm just saying I would need evidence before I start talking about it on this show.

[April Ajoy]

Yeah. Because here's the thing. Do I find some things that have happened in the last year or so suspicious? Yes.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yes.

[April Ajoy]

Is it enough to come on here or on my platform and start saying, like, it was stolen. We need to be, you know, or the assassination was staged. Like, there's all of these things that, yes, there are suspicious things around it.

[Tim Whitaker]

Right.

[April Ajoy]

But there's zero evidence that it was not what it was. And in a world where strange things happen all the time, let's just try not to spread things until there's evidence behind it.

[Tim Whitaker]

And look, here's what I'm saying. I know some people are going to be like, well, you know, it's suspicious. Sure, things are suspicious. I mean, this is how conspiracy theories kind of take off. There's always a hint of truth in a conspiracy theory. There's always some idea that could be true, but it becomes this thing that's so much bigger than their actual reality. So I'm not saying that it's out of the realm of possibility that some people did things to overturn or again rig the election in 2024, which. But until I have hard evidence, widespread evidence that's been proven or that is really in front of our face of widespread fraud, I'm not gonna promote that on this show personally.

[April Ajoy]

But we will be following that case in New York just to see what unfolds.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yes, yes, we wanna be as data driven and of course we always give commentary, but we wanna be as data driven as we can be. It's just that simple.

[April Ajoy]

Yeah. So why, why don't we start off the show with some good news?

[Tim Whitaker]

Yes.

[April Ajoy]

That shocked Republicans and Democrats alike. The, the New York City mayor race was earlier this week and a new up and comer upset Andrew Cuomo, who a lot of people thought had it in the bag.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yep.

[April Ajoy]

I don't know how, but Zoran Mamdani won. He, he won the Democrat primary.

[Tim Whitaker]

Absolutely. I love this.

[April Ajoy]

And, and he is very, very progressive. He is a self proclaimed Democratic socialist. And I, I mean, I was shocked. To be fair, though, I really don't know much about him. I, I learned about him pretty much in the last week with the, the mayor race. I, I heard, you know, I, I was a little confused why I was seeing different Democrats endorse Andrew Cuomo because I thought, I thought we had moved past Andrew Cuomo given I.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah, exactly, exactly. Like, are you guys kidding me? I mean, can we just talk about that for a second? Andrew Cuomo has credible accusations of sexual assault by multiple women.

[April Ajoy]

What was it, assault or harassment?

[Tim Whitaker]

Well, I mean, one of the, one of the accusations is that he went under someone's shirt. I would call that assault personally, but we can call it harassment. Either way. Either way.

[April Ajoy]

I just want to make sure we're using the right language, but yeah, sure, either way, okay.

[Tim Whitaker]

He, he's not a good person and he resigned in disgrace. And the fact that like mainstream Democrats were endorsing this dude, you gotta be kidding me, right? I mean, you understand how that completely takes away all of your credibility of accusing Trump of being this horrible person who assaults women, because you just can't do that. It's ridiculous. So I am glad to see that Cuomo did not get the, the nominee or the, the nomination. And I love, and I'm like you, April. You know, you and I are so deep in the Christian nationalist lore, always trying to figure out what's going on there that we don't know what's going on in other parts of the country. So when I saw that, that, that he won, I started looking, looking into him. I was like, this is, I like this dude. Like, sign me up. So it was definitely good news. Welcome news for sure.

[April Ajoy]

Yeah, a little bit about him. He was born in Uganda to Indian parents, American citizen in 2018 after graduating, and his mom is an award winning filmmaker. And then his dad is an anthropology professor at Columbia University. And I mean, his, his resume is very impressive. Let's, let's just say that he seems like a really nice, like, cool, empathetic guy. And from what I've heard of his policies, it's, honestly, it feels like a rare win in what we're, what we're seeing right now in our country. And I think hopefully it'll also wake up the Democrats who kind of aren't always the best.

[Tim Whitaker]

I actually have a really good clip during the debate of, of Andrew Cuomo and Zoran Mandani. I want to talk about, I want to share this clip that I think is so good. That just shows how this dude was so composed during the debate. Watch this clip, friends. It's so good. And then we'll come back to it. Never dealt with a hurricane, with a flood, et cetera. He's never done any of the essentials. And now you have Donald Trump on top of all of that, and he's never dealt with what I think is the greatest national threat that we face in this president. To put a person in this seat at this time with no experience is reckless and dangerous to Mr. Cuomo. I have never had to resign in disgrace. I have never cut Medicaid. I have never stolen hundreds of millions.

[April Ajoy]

Of dollars from the MTA. I have never hounded the 13 women.

[Tim Whitaker]

Who credibly accused me of sexual harassment. I have never sued for their gynecological records. And I have never done those things because I am not you, Mr. Cuomo. And furthermore, the name is Mamdani. M A M D A N I. You should learn how to say it because we got to get it right. Love him. Love him. And he's only 33.

[April Ajoy]

Oh, I know. Which makes me feel old because I'm older than him.

[Tim Whitaker]

I know. By the way, I have to make. I have to make because we're going to get into the white evangelical and Christian nationalist response of, of, of this, which is, if you're assuming that they were, that they were horrible towards him and super Islamophobic you're correct. But it is ironic to me that a 33 year old brown skinned man who's essentially saying we have, we have to take care of the poor, you know, and, and make things affordable, you know, preaching good news to the poor is running for mayor. And so many Christians are like, this guy's a communist. He's, he's, he's a Marxist. We can't vote for him. It's like, you know, you know who, you know who he sounds like? There is another, there's another 33 year old brown skinned man I'm thinking about who also proclaimed good news to the poor that millions of evangelicals supposedly worship every Sunday.

[April Ajoy]

Oh my God.

[Tim Whitaker]

So it cracks me up just seeing the response. But I mean, really quick, I just want to go down some of his, of his, like his platform, because people, some people, including Democrats, by the way, there are some Democrats who are painting him as like this extremist. Okay? This like radical, crazy extremist here is on his website just a few of his platform policies. He wants to freeze the rent in New York City, build affordable housing. He wants to crack down on bad landlords. He wants more city owned grocery stores. He wants fast, fair, free buses. He wants to fight corporate exploitation, no cost childcare baby baskets for New York's newborns. That sounds pretty pro family to me. He wants, he wants taxing corporations in the 1%. Sounds great. He wants LGBTQIA protections when it comes to health care. He wants more affordable health care in the city. He wants to raise labor wages to $30 an hour by 2030. Yeah. Yes. I mean, April, this is what you and I talk about on the show almost weekly, like, this is not complicated. And then people always say, well, how do you pay for it? But by taxing the ultra rich, that's how you pay for it. And we did this in the 1940s and 50s. Like there's data to support this. There is data to support this. So. So I am absolutely thrilled. Oh, I didn't mean to skip this. I thought I read it. No cost childcare. That is another, another big piece of the agenda. So why don't we go to some of the responses.

[April Ajoy]

Can we start with Donald Trump's?

[Tim Whitaker]

Of course we can, April. We can do whatever you want.

[April Ajoy]

I don't know if we mentioned this yet, but he is Muslim.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yes, he's Muslim.

[April Ajoy]

And that's got people all freaked out, all freaked out for all the wrong reasons. Like that is such a small piece of his whole platform. And literally it doesn't matter. Like, it would just be the same thing as if he were a Christian. Like. Anyway, it doesn't matter. Let's read this tweet by Donald Trump. He said, finally happened. It's finally happened. The Democrats have crossed the line. Zoran Mamdani, 100% communist lunatic, has just won the Dem primary and is on his way to becoming mayor. We've had radical lefties before, but this is getting a little ridiculous. He looks terrible, his voice is grating. He's not very smart. He's got AOC plus three dummies all backing him. And even our great Palestinian senator cryin Chuck Schumer is groveling over him.

[Tim Whitaker]

He.

[April Ajoy]

Yes, this is a big moment in the history of our country.

[Tim Whitaker]

I.

[April Ajoy]

How can he say he looks terrible and that his voice is grating? What is he talking about?

[Tim Whitaker]

I don't know how to say this. This is. I mean, there is nothing. What. What Mamdani is proposing is not radical at all, period. What is radical. What is radical is the amount of wealth that's been transferred to the ultra 1% that is sucking up the. It's a huge transfer of wealth. We're watching the middle class and lower class being squeezed more and more, and people like Trump and his people are responsible for that process. Right. The fact that we have someone who is saying we need affordable wages, we need affordable childcare, we need affordable healthcare. This is not radical. There is. You know, you know why it's not radical? Because many other countries that are much smaller in terms of size and GDP of the US make it happen for their citizens. The uk, Scotland, many countries in Europe and in Asia offer their citizens affordable healthcare or paid family leave, and they give their citizens a newborn basket. When you have a kid, this is not like some crazy idea.

[April Ajoy]

That's too extreme, Tim.

[Tim Whitaker]

Right. What is. What is extreme is the fact that people work 40, 60, sometimes even 80 hours and still can't make it in this country. That's what's extreme. April. April. What's extreme is that there are people, including me, who would rather not go to the hospital or not call an ambulance because they're afraid about not being able to afford the ambulance bill or the hospital bill. That's extreme. That's crazy.

[April Ajoy]

I am with you.

[Tim Whitaker]

Oh, my. It is wild that we are here. This is a radical at all.

[April Ajoy]

I know. Have you. Have we ever seen Trump laugh?

[Tim Whitaker]

Maybe during January six.

[April Ajoy]

Oh, gosh, too soon.

[Tim Whitaker]

Let's read some other tweets here. So, as you can imagine, right wing media, they really showed their colors Right. Now, look, I've been saying, and so is April, we've been saying that, that Christian nationalist leaders, especially like your Charlie Kirks and your Matt Walsh's, they are incredibly racist and they don't want immigrants coming into this country legally or illegally. It doesn't matter how or term, uselessly doesn't matter how you splice it. And Charlie Kirk really shows that. Where's the one? Is this the one? Yeah, here we go. So Charlie Kirk tweets this. The lesson from New York City is that both illegal and legal immigration can ruin your country. It's not just the open border, it's also our suicidal mass legal migration policies, bringing in over 1 million people a year, green cards, chain migration, refugee resettlement, anchor babies and asylum scams. This all needs to be ended. This is what, this is what we've been saying, April. These people want a white country for white European people. Because Charlie would never say this about people migrating from Germany over to the us Right? Or from the UK over to the us it's not about that. It's. It's about brown skinned people being in this country legally or undocumented. Either way, they need to go. They need to go because they are essentially replacing the voting demographic. And I'm not exaggerating when I say that because I have this tweet to show people as well. So Stephen Miller, this is. I mean, guys, Stephen Miller is like a top US official in the Trump administration. He's responsible for so much of the immigration policies, all this stuff. Stephen Miller says the commentary about New York City Democrats nominating an anarchist socialist for mayor admits one point. How unchecked migration fundamentally remade the New York City electorate. Democrats change politics by changing voters. That's how you turn a city that defined US dominance into what it is now, with William Wolf retweeting that saying mass migration must be met with mass deportations. If it's not, we will lose America to the third World. Friends, look, listen to me very closely. This is exactly what the KKK believes and says. This is what they say. David Duke, a grand wizard of the kkk, says that America is being overtaken by immigrants. They are replacing us. This is called the Great Replacement Theory and it should chill us to the bone to see KKK talking points being espoused from, from people who are this high up in these administrative, you know, political spaces. It is wild. Like, it's here. White supremacy is here. It's here. This is what's going on. It is unbelievable to witness.

[April Ajoy]

Well, yeah, and I feel like we're kind of seeing something very similar to what we saw so much after 9 11, which is rampant Islamophobia. Rampant that just because someone is Muslim that somehow they're responsible for 9 11. Like I can't tell you how many tweets that I've seen. Like Nancy Mace for one, I don't know if you have that one. But she said after 911 we said never forget. I think we have sadly, I think we sadly have forgotten, which is just so, so much so hateful. It is so bigoted. Like, and honestly Islamophobia, if you especially we're coming of age like in 911 and like the Iraq war and George Bush and all stuff. Like I had to unlearn Islamophobia because it was just in the water. You just believed that all Muslims hated you, hated America, hated Jesus, hated God. Like we're supposed to convert you or kill you. Like those are things that I was taught until I actually like started talking to other Muslims or two Muslims and realizing they don't feel that way at all. And yeah, of course there's an extremists, but just like you and I, we are Christian and we don't like when people lump us in with crazy white supremacist Christian nationalists. Like those are the extremists of our religion and we do not follow that at all. That's, that goes against the teachings of Jesus.

[Tim Whitaker]

So William Wolf, he's a huge Christian nationalist, incredibly racist. He says New York City is going to elect a foreign born Muslim as mayor. But please tell me more about how Christian nationalism is the real threat. So I quote teed him and just shared pictures of the January 6th insurrection. Like, yeah, William, like, yes. I mean this is why we say it's a real threat. Because guess what, it wasn't radical Islam that stormed our capital on January 6th with you know, waving, waving the Quran around. It was Christians. It was white Christians who stormed our capital. Which signs like that or flags that said Jesus is my Savior, Trump is my president, or in God we trust, or the bringing across to the insurrection. And you know April as well as I do that if that happened with all Islamic iconography, William Wolfe, all these folks would, they would never stop talking about it. And American politicians would make all kinds of rules right away. But because, because it was Christians who did this. Well, not all Christians, guys. No, that doesn't speak for us. Or some people just flatly deny what happened on January 6. It was mostly peaceful. It was a, it was an inside job. But when it comes to a Muslim man getting the nominee to become mayor potentially of New York City. Right. Who's preaching about the need to take care of the most marginalized and to clean up the city in a way where all its residents can flourish. Suddenly he's a radical Islamist who's also a Marxist and must be defeated because immigration, I mean, thank you. I appreciate them for saying the quiet parts out loud. Thank you for no longer having to dog whistle things. Because now we can say, look, here are the receipts. These are racist, Islamophobic, xenophobic people who want to make America as white as possible. And it's on display for the world to see.

[April Ajoy]

Yeah. And I don't know if you ever get this too, but a lot of times I feel like frequently left comment whenever I call out Christian nationalism or I expose something harmful and evangelicalism. I can't tell you how many times I got the comment that says, great, do Islam next. Yeah, right, Right now, do Islam. I'm like, I was never Muslim and I'm not Muslim, I'm a Christian. I'm going to call out the harm in my own faith. There are plenty of Muslims and ex Muslims that can do that for Islam.

[Tim Whitaker]

Totally.

[April Ajoy]

It's so infuriating. It's the same thing that they do with queer people. They paint all queer people as predators with zero evidence. And then they completely ignore the predatory behavior in their own churches, in their own pews, by their own pastors and church leaders for that. It's just a few bad apples and we can excuse those or they can be redeemed, but not for anybody else. And it's the same thing when it comes to Islam.

[Tim Whitaker]

100%. This is what we call Christian supremacy. These are Christian supremacists. And again, it goes back to the data that we always cite. Christian nationalists do not believe multiculturalism. They don't believe in pluralism. They don't believe in religious diversity. They want America to be as Christian and as European centric as possible. Bottom line, anyway. Yeah, I mean, I'm rooting. I'm rooting for Zoran. How do you say his name again? I keep mispronouncing. I know I do.

[April Ajoy]

I've heard Zoran. I've heard Zoran. Momdamni, can I confess something?

[Tim Whitaker]

Live on the air? I get, whenever I hear or I read a name that I'm not sure to pronounce, I always get so worried about trying to pronounce it, which only makes me most times mispronounce it. It happens all the time with anyone's name, especially on the podcast. So I get so nervous and I stutter trying to say the word. So I'm so sorry if I'm mispronouncing it. It's not intentional, but it also is like a major point of anxiety for me, mispronouncing someone's name or, you know, some other. Yeah, it just gets. I get my head about it, April. I get my head.

[April Ajoy]

Yeah. No, I feel that. I don't know if this is a segue, but I know that since everything's broken out between Israel, Trump and Iran. Yeah, I. I still catch myself saying Iran because I was raised in Texas and that's just how everybody said it. And it is like I have to stop and think, like, I need to say this. Right? So there's like a hesitation, like, Iran.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yes.

[April Ajoy]

It does not come natural.

[Tim Whitaker]

I was practicing earlier. I'm like, iran, Iran. I could do this, you know, because you're right. I. I always heard it said Iran. So that's how you say it. But obviously that's not correct. So it's. Yeah. Oh boy.

[April Ajoy]

When you hear Lululemon, you probably think of Align yoga pants. Weightlessly soft, like you're wearing next to nothing. That's why you see them in class, at the grocery store and in the park. But did you know about skirts with built in liner shorts so you can still jump for the Frisbee and tanks and bodysuits with Align's iconic stretch, you won't want to take it off. And with endless style options, you don't have to shop in store or [e-mail] hi, my name is Kim and I came to the New Evangelicals via the podcast. I didn't grow up in church. I didn't discover even. I was in my early 20s and during the time that I went to a Southern Baptist church, I thought that it was okay. I formed what I thought were true friendships. And there were some things over the years that kind of gave me pause for a minute and made me think, I don't know, this makes me kind of feel. But I just kind of let it go and didn't dwell on it too much. And then when Covid happened and we were forced to not go to church, it was like somebody took the blinders off. And I was able to really look at some of the behaviors and experiences that I had had over the past few years and say, wow, kind of messed up. And ever since then, I have been an avid fan of tne and I listen to the podcast. I'm Part of the Facebook group. I follow on Instagram TikTok occasionally. And I really am very passionate about making sure that even are held accountable for what they have done and continue to do and make sure that people know that there is another way forward and that you can reclaim your Christian faith. Speaking of Iran and Trump and Israel, Trump declared a ceasefire and then there wasn't a ceasefire. And then he got mad and he cussed and then there was a ceasefire. And as far as I believe we're still in the ceasefire situation. I think. I think it's been successful. It's been a little over 24 hours.

[Tim Whitaker]

I actually have. I have live footage of Trump declaring the ceasefire. Yeah, right now. Yeah. Here you go. Check this out. This really happened. I declare ceasefire. There you go. That's how it happened. For friends listening on the podcast, that was the Michael Scott from the office declaring bankruptcy, but we spliced in ceasefire instead.

[April Ajoy]

I mean, that really is what he practically did because he declared it. Yeah, Yeah, I can. Do you want to read this whole thing? It's so, so rambly. Hold on, let me find it. Okay, I got it. Right, hold on. No, come back. Gosh, I have so many of his stupid tweets.

[Tim Whitaker]

I knew that you were going to be reading a lot of Trump on this episode.

[April Ajoy]

Okay, I don't. Did I send that to you? It is a long one. Pull. Make it bigger. No, no, no. Make that one bigger so I can read it. For some reason, I don't have it on my phone, so it's a whole.

[Tim Whitaker]

Big enough.

[April Ajoy]

Yeah, I can read that. So this was the initial announcement, I do believe. Congratulations to everyone. It has been fully agreed by and between Israel and Iran that there will be a completely and total ceasefire in approximately six hours from now, when Israel and Iran have wound down and completed their in progress final missions for 12 hours. At which point the war will be considered ended officially. Iran will start the ceasefire and upon the 12th hour, Israel will start the ceasefire. And upon the 24th hour, an official end to the 12 Day War will be saluted by the world. Yes, saluted. During each ceasefire, the other side will remain peaceful and respectful on the assumption that everything works as it should, which it will. I would like to congratulate both countries, Israel and Iran, on having the stamina, courage and intelligence to end what should be called the 12 Day War. This is a war that could have gone on for years and destroyed the entire Middle East. But it didn't and never will. God bless Israel. God bless Iran. God bless the Middle East. God bless the United States of America and God bless the world. Donald J. Trump, President. Oh, sorry. Donald J. Trump, President of the United States of America. I love how he signs his own.

[Tim Whitaker]

Tweets, like it's some official declaration.

[April Ajoy]

It's like those, those grandmas on Facebook and I know a few that like their own posts.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yes, yes, yes. Well, unfortunately, Trump spoke too soon because according to Fox News, you know, the very unbiased Fox News, Trump's Israel, Iran ceasefire nearly collapses. Hours after announcement, which it did, they started bombing each other again. They started launching is. Oh my. They started launching missiles.

[April Ajoy]

I know. And then, so to, then he, and then Trump was pissed about it and was interviewed and then, and then said this.

[Tim Whitaker]

We basically have two countries that have been fighting so long and so hard that they don't know what the they're doing. You understand that? Wow. Wow. Now, this is a big deal because I'm not sure about you, April, but as a good white Christian, I was taught that, you know, you don't say words like that. And people who do probably are not good people, you know, who say the F word, especially on live tv. So we actually have a little montage that we're going to play of just how some Republicans or some right wing commentators treat, you know, when Trump curses versus when Democrats curse. I just think it's very telling to see how one side of this is. So watch this, friends.

[April Ajoy]

After the president dropped a four letter word on the White House lawn, it appears not all F bombs are created equal, at least on Fox. Here's how one host reacted to Trump and then 20 minutes later, reacting to a Democrat using the same word. The president feeling very frustrated this morning and using some salty language as he lashed out at both countries, accusing them of violating the agreement that he hopes will lead to peace in the region. I was particularly repulsed by Rep. Jasmine Crockett's comments where she said, I'm the one that's supposed to make the effing decision on bombing Iran. First of all, it's a pretty foul mouth affair for someone that went to a tidy little all girls Catholic school. In fact, it seems there's a lot of pearl clutching over at Fox whenever the swearing is done by liberals. I don't understand all the Democrats cursing. I find it very unpersuasive and undignified. They've got expensive education, some of them. Why are they out of words? I'm just, I'm confounded by the fact that they've got a cuss when you swear repeatedly like that. That doesn't equal passion. It equals disrespect.

[Tim Whitaker]

Now they think cursing like drunken sailors will somehow make the American people like them again.

[April Ajoy]

Look, to me, the Democrats are like a bunch of potty mouth kids. But when Donald Trump does it. 0fox given.

[Tim Whitaker]

Oh, nice.

[April Ajoy]

That was a good. That was a good.

[Tim Whitaker]

That was a good one.

[April Ajoy]

So salty. It's just a little salty. Trump was frustrated when Trump did it. Showing, showing passion. But when a Democrat does it, or especially like Jasmine Crockett, who. I think a lot of that has to do with the fact that she's a black woman. She's foul and petty and they're, they're repulsed by it, which is just, it's just so obvious.

[Tim Whitaker]

I don't know.

[April Ajoy]

I.

[Tim Whitaker]

They have to see it. They have to.

[April Ajoy]

Yeah, honestly, I really don't care. I don't care if he cusses or not. I've never once thought he was a good person. So it doesn't, it does nothing for me. And also, I cuss. Yeah, who doesn't cuss?

[Tim Whitaker]

I don't care. These are the days of cussing, for sure. I don't care if Biden cursed or if Trump. I don't care. It doesn't, it doesn't bother me. But again, in the tradition that we were raised in that votes for Trump, cursing is a big deal. And so, and by the way, Trump said the F word, I mean, he said like the mother of all words, you know, it wasn't. He didn't say damn or shit. He said, well, and then in the.

[April Ajoy]

Rest of that video, too, he was like, I am mad. He was basically saying, I'm very disappointed and upset with Israel and I'm disappointed and upset with Iran, and was just like, he was not happy because he, you know, he declared ceasefire. Once you declare something, that. That's it, you know, that should be it.

[Tim Whitaker]

That's it.

[April Ajoy]

Wash your hands. How dare everyone go home.

[Tim Whitaker]

How dare two other sovereign countries, one of which we just bombed unexpectedly, not listen to my words on Truth Social. Like, what? I don't get it, guys. How dare you not obey my commands? I posted it on Truth Social and I signed it with my name and title. So, you know, it's official.

[April Ajoy]

Where was the one Truth Social that he posted where he was like, all right, it's now official. Like the second ceasefire one, where he's like, Israel's going to turn around and do their little wave.

[Tim Whitaker]

Is it this one?

[April Ajoy]

He talked about there's going to be. They were going to do a friendly wave. I Don't know.

[Tim Whitaker]

I don't think I had that one. Let me see.

[April Ajoy]

Maybe I didn't send it, but that one was a.

[Tim Whitaker]

No, I don't have.

[April Ajoy]

I mean, they're all, they're all quite stupid if we're being honest. Doesn't matter. He was just being, being silly. But he did say in his, the second announcement of the ceasefire that Israel was going to just do a friendly little wave from the sky and return their planes.

[Tim Whitaker]

Oh my goodness.

[April Ajoy]

We have to laugh so we don't cry because on it, like this guy Trump has the nuclear codes. Like, what, what are we doing? I do want to say, I do want to say if he does, if, if this ceasefire and, and if what happens there actually does lead to peace, then that's great. You know, I will give credit where, where credit is due. I have high doubts that that's actually going to happen because one, one group of people that is consistently left out of these negotiations by Donald Trump are Palestinians. You know, where is the peace for them? Where they are starving in palace in Gaza. Still.

[Tim Whitaker]

Still.

[April Ajoy]

And there's no, Trump's not talking about trying to find freedom for Palestine.

[Tim Whitaker]

So 100. I, you know, I lost the clip that you sent me of Nancy Mace. I gotta find it now. I thought I downloaded it, but I can't find it. I've heard of hers. The first thing that Trump is going to win the Nobel Peace Prize.

[April Ajoy]

Oh no, that's Katie Britt.

[Tim Whitaker]

Sorry, Katie Britt. Where did that one go? I thought I had it.

[April Ajoy]

I don't know. But there was also that video that Trump posted. Also a true social after Trump, after the actual ceasefire.

[Tim Whitaker]

Do we have to play this?

[April Ajoy]

Okay, he posted this.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah, on. So two things here. First off, if you're just joining the stream, welcome, please make sure to give this video a like and subscribe to the channel. It helps get out to more people. Number two, whenever we play audio with music in it, even if it's not original music, YouTube always flags it and demonetizes us. So if you want to support the work that we're doing, because we're going to play this, you can give us a super chat or you can donate to TNE and it covers all of that. So thank you so much. But yeah, make sure to give this stream a like. But yes, this is a real video.

[April Ajoy]

That Trump shared on Tuesday night at 7:15 after the act, like they agreed to the cease fire.

[Tim Whitaker]

Again, I'm not going to play the whole thing, but I just have to play part of this. This Is real. Trump reshared this. It has 34,000 likes. Here you go.

[April Ajoy]

Okay, cut it.

[Tim Whitaker]

Good. Good enough.

[April Ajoy]

Just the, the fact that someone could make a joke video about bombing another nation where people have died, where innocent people live and go to school and learn and listen, the Iranian regime has problems. If you ask any Persian American or people that are there. There was that revolution that happened a few years ago with the women and the modesty police. It has problems for sure. And the people there are oppressed. And also they don't deserve having bombs dropped on them. And the fact that you have the President of the United States posting a joke video about that, it's so inhumane and disgusting. And then J.D. vance, do you have that tweet that he posted? He also is just having a grand old cackle about the whole thing. He tweeted, I Wonder if other VPs had as much excitement as I do. Crying laugh emoji. And then I actually do really appreciate what Republican Thomas Massie said in response to J.D. vance. And he said, ask Mike Pence about his last month when they try to hang him.

[Tim Whitaker]

It's so, it's so beneath like the president, the presidency. They are children. We have, we have 12 year old children running the White House. And again, like, it is ridiculous that the, that the sitting president of the United States would share a video about bombing Iran and that also has Islamophobic content in it. Like, you know, went to a mosque is what is part of what it says. It says make it a parking lot at one point in the song. Like, it's ridiculous. It's crazy. I'm continually, you know, April, we've been doing this show for a few months now. You and I have been doing this work for years and I'm still at times speechless at what comes out of the sewer. The swamp of the MAGA movement and that is tolerated by its followers. When is bombing other countries and then making a video like that ever acceptable or okay, it's gross. It's so dehumanizing. And again, brought to you by white evangelicals who still think to this day that Trump overall was doing a bang up job. Like, what are we doing here, Christians? Jesus.

[April Ajoy]

It's similar to the ASMR video that they posted when they were arresting. Yes, yes, quote unquote, illegal immigrants.

[Tim Whitaker]

Exactly.

[April Ajoy]

They were also making a joke. These are, the Trump administration is so inhumane. Like at the very basic level, take out even the inhumane policies, the, you know, crippling of, of Medicaid and, and funding for just basic human needs, both here and globally. Take all that aside. Just the, like, the way that they are making jokes about human suffering is so disgusting. And the fact that there's so many Christians that still think Trump is somehow this great Christian that's making America more Christian is. Is so infuriating. Like, infuriating is. Is not a strong enough word for how much it angers me as a Christ follower and disappoints me at the same time. Like, I am both equal parts angry.

[Tim Whitaker]

And disheartened, you know, to just, just, just to quote the Commander in chief, to draw from him. I'm going to say the, the quiet part out loud. It's fucking disgusting, April. Yeah, that's what it is.

[April Ajoy]

It's.

[Tim Whitaker]

It's disgusting. And it just shows how bankrupt the American evangelical theological world is. What theology. How do you read the Sermon on the Mount and go, you know what? I love my. I love Trump. Trump is. He's draining the swamp. Yeah, we're bombing other countries, but, hey, you know, this, this is. We're making America godly again and Christian again. We. We're bringing Christian values back to. If these are Christian values, then get me the hell out of here. Like, I'm, I'm changing my faith tradition. Then. If these are Christian values. Thankfully, they're not Christian values. They are Christian nationalist values, you know, and they're Antichrist in nature. But my God, it's unbelievable that we are here every day and there are still so many Christians who go, no, Trump's doing a great job. It's, it's, it is disgusting. Ding. It's disgusting.

[April Ajoy]

Yeah. On top of all of this, I don't know if you're going where I was also going to go. There's also just this general glee among evangelicals and Christian nationalists over what wars in the Middle east mean for the biblical end times. And there's, there's kind of this, like, palpable excitement about it.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah, let's get into this. And just. By the way, friends, we. We're not going to go super deep here because we're limited with time. I am doing a three or four part series on all of this. More of a deep dive with different experts on the TNE podcast. Episode one's already out with Kevin Carnahan. We're having an Iranian guest. Come on. That will drop probably on Monday. And then we're going to do an episode on End Times Theology and evangelicalism. So we're doing deeper dives on the TNE podcast. You can go subscribe and watch it over there. It will also be on YouTube. So we're going to have some assumptions kind of baked into this part. But yes, I mean, April, to your point, as we know both of us grew up in this world, we where, where, where you believe that you are just kind of living in the end times and that certain things in the Middle east as they take place are actually fulfilling biblical prophecy. I, I, I think one of the best clips to play to kind of show you how maybe like the average white evangelical leader and subsequent follower probably thinks about matters going on right now in the Middle East. And this is of a, of Josh Howerton. Josh Howerton is a massive Christian nationalist pastor. He has a mega church, actually one of the biggest churches in America. I, I, I, yeah, he's insufferable. I really want, especially if you're watching this, I want you to look at, at, at, at Josh's facial expressions and tone as he talks about this and really consider the words that he's saying. And then April and I will come back and give you guys some commentary. The Bible says that this attack at the end of time will come on Israel from the north and the south. And then that will be the final war, the war to end all wars that will usher in the end of time. Now here's the question. Are we entering into that war right now? In Ezekiel 38 and 39 it mentions nations Gog and Magog. That's, that would be like modern day Russia. It also mentions persia in Ezekiel 38 and 39. That corresponds to modern day Iran. What we do know is that if Iran enters the war, that Turkey and Russia will probably go with them. Right behind them will be North Korea and China. And if all of the world powers start attacking from the north and the south, start trying to attack Israel, that could be the war to end all wars that ushers in the end of history. You may be going right now like, bro, this is heavy, man. Can I just say this? There's a lot of Hope in Ezekiel 38, 39, because we know how that battle is smiling. But the Bible says exactly at the moment when it looks like all hope is lost, forgot for, for the descendants of Isaac, that the Lord himself, Jesus Christ, will descend, he will take the battlefield and he will win the war once and for all, for all time. Okay, wow.

[April Ajoy]

According to the math of this final war of what I was taught, it's like basically more than half, it's like a third and then another additional third later that are just going to be killed right of the entire global population.

[Tim Whitaker]

That's right.

[April Ajoy]

And he's like, even if you believe that. Right. If you believe in biblical prophecy, that that is going to happen. You have a pastor right here who is killing. He is smiling while talking about the destruction of most people on earth. This dude is smiling on earth.

[Tim Whitaker]

Right, right. By the way, I want to just bring up just one theological point really quick. This idea of Gog and Magog. First off, in Ezekiel, I believe it's Gog who's is. Gog is not a country. In Ezekiel, it's a prince. It's a person. If you just read it. Number two, there is absolutely this idea that he says of like Gog or Magog being modern day Russia is made up. There is, there's, it's completely, completely made up. It is just pulled out of thin air and it is made up. It is a made up statement. And this kind of theology growing up. Yeah, no, me too, me too. But it's made up. And this theology. Here's the thing, friends, here's the thing. Do we ultimately care what you believe about the end of the world? No, of course not. We all have our thoughts and hypothesis about, you know, when things might end. And look, every generation feels like maybe they're the last ones. Even the Apostle Paul thought he was living in the last days. Okay, we get that. But when these kinds of ideas drive US foreign policy, which they do because people like Mike Huckabee believe this stuff, he's currently the ambassador to Israel. This is when it gets real dangerous. There are people out there who really believe this. They believe that we are closer than ever to an all out war where most people, by the way, including Jewish people, are gonna die and by their own theological standards, go to hell. They're going to burn forever in hell and be tormented forever in hell. That's what people like Josh believe about life after death. And Josh is smiling about that. Josh can't wait for this to actually happen. And this is why we're so like livid about this. Because this theology, by the way, last thing I'll say. Oh, Kip is in the chat. Great, thank you. Kip, good to see you. If I said anything incorrect, please let me know. He's like my personal scholarly fact checker whenever we're live, which I really appreciate.

[April Ajoy]

Perfect.

[Tim Whitaker]

We always want to be factual. But the last thing I'll say about this is that this end time theology, this rapture theology, right, this idea that at any moment the true Christians will get vanished and sucked up into heaven. And then the beginning of the tribulation starts. This, this intense period of suffering and war and carnage. It literally was invented mostly in the 19th century out of this a theological ideology called dispensationalism, founded by someone named John Nelson Darby. Largely, I mean, it's a little more complicated than that, but he was the one who really popularized it. And then books like the Late Great Planet Earth and Left behind really put it into the average American evangelical psyche. Most Christians, both historically and today, do not believe any of this. They don't believe any of this stuff. It is a uniquely American evangelical phenomena. And it's so powerful in US politics that it drives some of the policies we have towards Israel. That's why there's this idea of America must stand with Israel, because people like Josh believe that if we don't, God will also punish us, punish us and take his. His blessing away from us. So it's all tied to this. And as you can see, many of them are just giddy about it. It's crazy.

[April Ajoy]

Yeah, I mean, rapture anxiety is so real. I remember when I first learned that the word rapture is not in the Bible. I was pissed. Like I thought there was a mistake. But then I genuinely, when I realized it was not a belief, I think at 1833 was when John Nelson Darby like first kind of put it out into the world. It was the 1830s. I was so mad because I like, I don't. I'm gonna tell the story real quick because it's traumatizing. It's kind of funny. But it's also not. I was 13. Ready, right? I'm on AOL instant messenger. I'm chatting. I'm flirting with a boy. Okay, I admit it. I was flirting.

[Tim Whitaker]

We've all been there, April. We've all been there.

[April Ajoy]

That your thoughts were sinful. If you were lusting, that was the same thing as committing adultery. So whether or not I was sinning is up for interpretation. But I was, you know, I thought maybe I'm not doing the right thing. But I like this boy. So I'm just gonna flirt, right? Suddenly I realized the house seems a little more quiet than it should be. So I say, mom, dad. No one answers. Call for my brothers. No one answers. I start looking around the house, can't find anybody. My mom's purse is still on the table. I go into the garage, the cars are still there. I go into my parents room. I guess my mom had just done laundry or whatever, but there's folded clothes right on the bed. I don't know if you remember, you're left behind lore, but when people get raptured, they leave their clothes behind. And for whatever reason. And the ones that I saw, they were folded. Don't know why. Doesn't matter. Moving on. I start looking everywhere for my family. They have vanished. My dog's not even there. And I don't know if dogs get raptured, but I still wasn't comforted by the fact that my dog was also gone. Right? I go to the front yard, I go to the backyard. I start walking down the golf course that we lived on at the time. And I literally. I start to panic. I am having a panic attack because I genuinely believe now that I have been left behind at 13 years old. And I remember thinking, okay, there's a military shop a couple miles away. In this scenario, it's okay if I drive, even though I'm not allowed to. I'll go to the supply, I'll go to the military store. I'll get food. I am psyching myself up to join the underground church and preparing myself to get my head chopped off. Genuinely, I was like, I'm going to have to refuse the mark of the beast, which is how you're going to, you know, buy and sell food. And I'm literally giving myself a pep talk, trying not to cry and giving myself, like, it's okay, April Guillotine. Death is very quick. It'll be painful for like one second, and then you'll be in heaven. Like, that's how dark it was. And then, of course, my family was just blissfully on a walk and they just didn't tell me where they had went. And I pretended like I hadn't did anything, but. And honestly, because I was flirting with that boy, I thought, oh, the last thing I did was a sin. That's why I got left behind. Like it is. That theology has done so much damage. Like, it's kind of. It's. It's funny because the, like, the idea that we would all get raptured naked, why we're naked, I don't know. Like, it's funny. It doesn't make any sense. It's a stupid belief, but I believed it. And like. Like to this day, if the house gets too quiet and I'm alone for like the splittest of seconds, I think.

[Tim Whitaker]

Rapture, I get that. In fact, the chat is full of these. We have a few super chats that came in about this. First off, Mary, thank you so much for the super chat. Did you see Mamdani's oh, wait, sorry, that's a different one. We read that one already. It was this one I have to read. Thank you, Olivia, for the super chat. They are counting on the Jews going to hell. They are gleeful about it. They are a bunch of anti Semites. They just otherwise try to keep it behind doors. That is true. A lot of. A lot of people in this space know that Jews will either convert to Christianity or they will die. So I agree. We've said many times on the show that Christian Zionism is inherently anti Semitic. Kyle, thank you for the super chat. I legit developed insomnia after learning about Revelations as a child and I was afraid of fire for a little bit. And then I was also mad. April. Absolutely. And then Deanna says here again, Deanna, thank you for the super chat. All super chats are guaranteed to be read on the show. So thank you so much. Raise your hand if you've been personally victimized by rapture theology. Absolutely. Yeah, Absolutely. Absolutely freaking lutely. It's so real. It's so real. 100%. I have another clip I want to play, actually, I have two more just of different Christian leaders being giddy about this. This is Michele Bachmann. Hear what she said.

[April Ajoy]

We are living in the times that the Bible said that the prophets longed to see the prophets and the. The Bible wanted to be alive. Now, when you and I are alive, they wanted to be alive because of what would happen, what was going to happen. Because it was very clear from the very beginning of the Bible, God gave a special purpose to the Jewish people.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah, yeah. To be. To be killed. Wild, wild stuff. And I grew up. I grew up believing this. 100%. 100%.

[April Ajoy]

100%.

[Tim Whitaker]

100%.

[April Ajoy]

Well, and let's not forget to every single decade since I've been alive, and then well before Christians thought we were in the end times.

[Tim Whitaker]

Totally.

[April Ajoy]

Try to remind myself, too. Like, even when I would think we were in the end times, back when I believed the Rapture, still.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yep.

[April Ajoy]

I would think, okay, but this isn't worse than World War II. Right, right. And that wasn't the end, so.

[Tim Whitaker]

Right.

[April Ajoy]

But I will say in all honesty, Trump declaring peace in the Middle east. And like you have Katie Britt saying he deserves the Nobel Peace Prize and claiming that Trump's like this man of peace. I got to. I have to. I gotta be honest, my rapture anxiety is triggered because I don't know if you remember, but the guy who brings Trump peace in the Middle east according to the rapture theology that I was taught right is the freaking Antichrist.

[Tim Whitaker]

Congrats, Christians. You did it. You actually, you did the thing. You became the self fulfilling prophecy, right? No, that's a huge part of it, right? When there's peace in the Middle east and we have one world government, they're all working together, right? That's, that's the Antichrist.

[April Ajoy]

Antichrist.

[Tim Whitaker]

That's Antichrist.

[April Ajoy]

It's so wild to me. And then there's so many Christians that are just suddenly like, just, nope, it's fine. We love Trump. We love peace over there. I mean, I remember being suspicious of peace growing up. Anytime there were peace talks with the United Nations, I was like, could be setting the stage for the Antichrist. You don't want too much peace. Like, you want peace, but not too much.

[Tim Whitaker]

Right, right.

[April Ajoy]

Because that Antichrist suspicion right there.

[Tim Whitaker]

Right? Exactly. Exactly. I mean, but then you don't want, you know. Yeah, you don't, you don't want, you don't want World War iii, but also you don't want like, you know, you don't want nothing either. You need a few bombs here and there. It's. It. When you really evaluate that belief system from this vantage point, it really is crazy. Like, it, it's insane. And look, I'm someone who believed this okay for a long time, but think about like the outcome because, and think about how, think about how supremacist it is. Like, like, like when Josh Howerton was, was just in that video, he said at the end, like, but there's good news for those in Isaac or something to that effect. What he's saying is, well, for us though, we're going to be okay. They're all going to suffer. Right? People over there are going to get bombed to smithereens, but we're going to be okay. It's such a European centric, like white, centric, white theological out, you know, take to have as, as your neighbors across the world are being bombed and obliterated to death to fulfill your ideology of some kind of biblical prophecy that was invented 160 years ago. Like, this isn't even like orthodox Christianity, a term that, that, that, that they all love to throw out. This is a brand new idea in church history and he, they believe it so much that they have no problem killing people. I mean, this was like. Did we play last week the clip of, of Ted Cruz getting obliterated by, by, by Tucker Carlson on Israel? Right? But, but Ted Cruz takes those like four words in Genesis about, about Israel so literally that he will help fund the genocide of the Palestinian People. But when Jesus tells us to take care of the sick, Right, and to liberate the oppressed, well, that's just Marxism. We can't have affordable health care in the country. It's just. It's unbelievable. It's unbelievable. Zackamania, thanks for the super chat. You want to hear of wars and rumors of wars, right? Yes, exactly.

[April Ajoy]

Wars and rumors of words. And then BB Gems in the chat brought up John Hagee, who's been preaching about end times for decades and Ron.

[Tim Whitaker]

Decades.

[April Ajoy]

I gotta say, I gotta admit, I have an irrational fear of blood moons. Can tell you how many times he was on TV in our. In my house growing up, just going off on blood moons, blood moons and guillotines. I have an irrational fear of. Because of this stupid belief.

[Tim Whitaker]

Well, you were talking about the Antichrist end times thing. Have you seen what RFK said recently? That. I'm. I'm shocked. A lot of, like, evangelical leaders are not picking up. Have you seen this? Yeah.

[April Ajoy]

About the. The wearables.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Listen to this. He really, by the way, he really said this. This is not doctored diet. About their physical activity, about the way that they live their lives. We think that wearables are a key to the Maha agenda, making America healthy again. And we are going to. My. My vision is that every American is wearing a wearable within four years.

[April Ajoy]

Thank you, Mr. Secretary. You don't say.

[Tim Whitaker]

Wow. Now, look, to be clear, what he's talking about is Apple watches, glucose monitors, which, by the way, are really great. I used to have an Apple watch. Nothing wrong with wanting people to have wearables to help them with their health. Right? But we know, April. We know that if this was a Harris administration and the Secretary of Health said that it'd be all over MAGA spaces. Oh, my gosh. It's the mark of the beast. They're coming for us. We knew this would happen. But because RFK said it, it's largely going unchecked.

[April Ajoy]

You are correct. It is largely going unchecked. But I do want to give credit where credit is due. There is one rapture group that I am in, and they are a little bit unnerved by these wearables.

[Tim Whitaker]

Good. I'm glad to hear it.

[April Ajoy]

Someone named Tamara said the wearables equal mark of the beast system. So I guess not exactly calling it the mark of the beast. It's the system. I don't know what the difference is. She said it aligns with their Agenda 2030 and the new World Order. And this is where she loses me a little bit. She says, for those of you who got your real id, you've already fallen to their agenda.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah.

[April Ajoy]

So apparently the real ID is also part of the Mark of the Beast system.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah, I don't know what that is. I mean, I have a real id. I don't think it's part of the system, but that's just me.

[April Ajoy]

Yeah. So there are some people that are saying, hey, never going to happen. This is suspicious. Not a fan. But you're right. For the most part, it's going largely ignored. Again though, if. If there was ever another side, that Trump was the Antichrist, it's his own health. Dude. Talking about everyone wearing something on their wrists.

[Tim Whitaker]

Right, right. And he said everyone. He didn't say optional. He said he wants everyone. That sounds. That sounds kind of, you know, that sounds like communism. That sounds like big government. It sounds like it's. And also, where does that data go? Who gets to. Who's reading your health data? Probably the Deep state. April, obviously. Obviously. Duh.

[April Ajoy]

Yeah. I have seen a couple people online that have been Trump supporters and are maybe considering that he might be the Antichrist but still support him though, because he's being used by God. Just as interesting. This is another quick rapture story and it's not some. A friend of mine used to be a youth leader and in a youth group, I think it was in the 80s. They literally got the youth group kids, parents permission, showed up to these kids homes in the middle of the night at like three in the morning.

[Tim Whitaker]

No.

[April Ajoy]

The parents let them in, they go wake the kids up and say, you're coming with us. They basically like kidnap these kids with parental consent, take them to the gymnasium of their church where they then show them a thief in the night. And then when the movie is over, they say, just like you weren't prepared for us to come get you tonight is how you're not going to be prepared when Jesus returns.

[Tim Whitaker]

Oh my. The trauma.

[April Ajoy]

The trauma that really happened.

[Tim Whitaker]

I believe that. I believe that. I believe that. Friends, thank you so much for being here. By the way, welcome to the stream. Please make sure to give this video a like, it helps get it out to the YouTube algorithm so more people will join. Also, we do have some new merch that's now available, the I commit sins of empathy line and some other stuff that you can get. It's. The link is in the description right there. It's the first link. So if you want to support the work that we're doing, super chats are welcomed or you can buy a piece of merch and wear your empathetic sins proudly and let the whole world know what a terrible human you are because you're empathetic. So, again, thanks for being here. It means a lot. One thing I wanted to cover, April, that I didn't put on our. Our runner is that did you see the hetero fest that happened in Idaho?

[April Ajoy]

I saw clips, yeah.

[Tim Whitaker]

Did you see what was said at the hetero festival? Did you see that?

[April Ajoy]

I did.

[Tim Whitaker]

Okay, so friends there, you know, obviously whenever Pride Month happens, all of these usual white Christian nationalists get all butt hurt that queer people are recognized in society and that, you know, pride flags exist. So someone decided to make a hetero festival to celebrate someone, you know, to celebrate heterosexuality and family values. And they had, by the way, 50 people showed up over the. Over the three days. It was a complete failure of. Of an event, but really only 50. About 50. Yeah. Yeah, I enjoy that. It was fun. But there was. There was a podcast. Oh, sorry. Thank you, Jesus. Unfollower. Hetero awesome Fest was what it was called. You're right.

[April Ajoy]

Hetero awesome Fest.

[Tim Whitaker]

And there was a pod. This happened in Idaho, by the way, so that should tell you a lot. And there was a podcast that was live streaming. And during the podcast, one of the podcasters said the following. Boise.

[April Ajoy]

It's a really nice place for an American city. It's top notch American city.

[Tim Whitaker]

Absolutely. There are still very good bars around, great food. There's the Basque district again. It's clean. There aren't any black people here.

[April Ajoy]

And tons of Mormons, which is a lot of Mormons. Chef's kiss in a city.

[Tim Whitaker]

Oh, yeah.

[April Ajoy]

That's so racist. Oh, my goodness.

[Tim Whitaker]

Of course. Of course it's racist. So. Oh, it's horrible. Oh, it's terrible. So they. The. The news caught up with the organizer of this event to do a little segment on him. I think it's just worth watching this two and a half minute segment together. April, we can kind of pause if you want to as we respond, but yeah, now remember, this happened at this guy's festival, right? This guy literally said that one of the best reasons that, you know, Boise, Idaho is so great is that because there are not any black people literally as racist as you can get. I mean, this is just Segregationist talking points. 100%. Let's just watch this news segment and see what we all think about his response.

[April Ajoy]

It's June and it's still Pride Month, But Hetero Awesome Fest has come to a controversial end. I'M your neighborhood reporter Jessica Davis, speaking with the organizer of the festival and his response toward racist comments made at his event during a podcast.

[Tim Whitaker]

It's top notch American City. Absolutely. There are still very good bars around, great food. There's the Basque district again. It's clean. There aren't any black people here.

[April Ajoy]

This is Dave Riley, the co host and producer of the Backlash, a talk show described as the premier American nationalist talk show. Riley made those comments at the hetero awesome festival this weekend.

[Tim Whitaker]

Look at that. Super packed April. Wow, what a mob of people. Boise, they said, hey, can we set up and do a live broadcast? You know, an interview. They wanted to interview, sit and interview with the speakers that were coming to our event.

[April Ajoy]

Mark Fitzpatrick is the owner of Old State Saloon who put on the controversial event celebrating straight pride, and he's seen on video during Riley's comment. He says he didn't hear Riley because he didn't have the podcast headphones on.

[Tim Whitaker]

You will never hear that from me. I won't say that. Nor do I think it was wise or a kind thing for him to say.

[April Ajoy]

I reached out to Riley for an interview Monday. He wasn't available, but sent me this statement saying, quote, diversity is a weakness, not a strength. The LGBTQIA movement is satanic. Straight white people are welcome and wanted in Idaho. Christ is king.

[Tim Whitaker]

This is. Hold on, pause. I'm pausing. By the way. That's what Charlie Kirk would say. Charlie Kirk says that. Charlie Kirk says that. He says diversity is not a strength. Guys, all this is. All this guy is saying is that he's being consistent with his Christian nationalist ideals. This is why we say they are racist, because this is what they believe. It's wild. It's wild, too.

[April Ajoy]

Even the guy who owned it who was like, I would never say that.

[Tim Whitaker]

Oh, yeah.

[April Ajoy]

And I thought what he said was unwise.

[Tim Whitaker]

Oh, yeah.

[April Ajoy]

Notice I didn't actually condemn what he said.

[Tim Whitaker]

Oh, he just.

[April Ajoy]

I know. I would never say that. Oh, there's more than.

[Tim Whitaker]

You're exactly right. You're exactly right. So here's what he said in response. You have somebody who is his own thing and has his own Persona. Right. He has a podcast. So he's going to choose to do what he decides to do. I'm not going to apologize for something that somebody else said. I will say, like, I definitely wouldn't have said it.

[April Ajoy]

Fitzpatrick says he isn't racist, citing his Christian faith.

[Tim Whitaker]

Long as. As long as they recognize they're a sinner and they know that Jesus Christ died on the cross. For their sins. It doesn't matter what color you are.

[April Ajoy]

Owner of Old State Saloon, Mark Fitzpatrick tells us that they've learned a lot from this year's festival that they are going to keep in mind for next year, confirming that the Hetero Awesome Fest will be back in summer 2026.

[Tim Whitaker]

There you go. There you go.

[April Ajoy]

I think it's. I need to point out for the people listening on podcast that the reporter who is interviewing the guy about the racist comment is a black woman.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yep. He won't apologize. He's. He's not racist. He won't apologize for a podcast that he invited to be at the event saying that the city is better without black people. You want to apologize for that? Are you kidding me? And then you cite your quote unquote Christian beliefs to prove that you're not racist. Wow.

[April Ajoy]

It reminds me of. I can't remember if I've ever shared this story here before. This is the day of April stories. Back in 2020, I lived in Cleveland, Tennessee, which is very, very white and conservative. And like when they went 77% for Trump. And in 2020, in our small town of 45,000 people, we had two Trump stores just to set the scene. Okay, so we're protesting our Confederate statue because that's the summer after George Floyd was murdered and all these Black Lives Matter protests happen. We're protesting, right?

[Tim Whitaker]

Yep.

[April Ajoy]

The local people would come and counter our protest. And one day a local white Baptist preacher came and started preaching at us. And one of his main points in his quote unquote sermon was that the color of sin is black.

[Tim Whitaker]

Oh, my God.

[April Ajoy]

Two Black Lives Matter demonstrators, many of whom were black themselves. Right. Then that clip, we got it on video. It was online. It went a little viral. People were calling him racist. Then he went on a 45 minute Facebook Live, said he had never prayed more over a sermon in his life and knew it was from the Lord and that it was impossible for him to be racist because of he was a Christian. Like, these people, like, what are you talking about? What are you talking? Like, it's so frustrating. And we even try to explain, like, sir, you were defending a Confederate statue that represents people who enslaved black people who owned people. And then you were shouting at people holding Black Lives Matter signs and black people and said, the color of sin is black. And you don't understand how people could have taken that as being racist. And he was like, no, it was the Holy Spirit. Like, what? Ah, well, so infuriating.

[Tim Whitaker]

Kyle, thank you for the super chat. He says, listen, it wasn't me who separated the water fountains. And I like collard green, so I can't be racist. Exactly, Kyle, exactly. Thanks for the super chat, my friend. It means a lot. No, exactly. There is this. This is. Look, when we say supremacy, there's a reason. Because people who think that they're always right, that's supremacy. And just like you said, you're telling him to his face why he's not correct, what he's actually representing. And he's so stuck in his ways, he's so prideful and arrogant that he would rather hide behind God than admit that what he's doing is racist.

[April Ajoy]

As the people that say they don't see color too, it's like, oh, we don't see color. We can't be racist. I don't see. You absolutely see color. Stop lying.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah, listen, you can't say we don't see color and then go, oh, that's a dei higher. You can't do both. You can't do both. Which, by the way, the idea of colorblindness actually comes out of white supremacy. I'm not sure if you know that, April. There's a really good book on this that. That describes how, like, after, you know, being blatantly racist was kind of falling out of vogue, they essentially, they. They changed the narrative from that so we just don't see color. And just. Let's just leave systems kind of in place how they are, because we don't see color. Which actually continued to further marginalize, especially black Americans. So all this stuff comes from somewhere, friends. Like, there's a history here, and it. Shocker alert. It comes out of racist ideology. So, yeah. Oh, goodness.

[April Ajoy]

Can I do a shameless plug real quick? Last week, people said we should promote our stuff more. In my. In my book, Star Spangled Jesus, I have a chapter where I talk about all the Black Lives Matter protests and all the crazy things local people said. And I have a rapture chapter in there for those that want to laugh about.

[Tim Whitaker]

Buy the book, my friends.

[April Ajoy]

Star Spangled Jesus is the name for the people listening. All right, so shall we get on to weird Christian Beep.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yes.

[April Ajoy]

Not that we haven't just done a whole episode on it.

[Tim Whitaker]

Sorry. Oh, I. I cut you off. I thought you're ready. I was trying to be the. I was trying to be real smooth with the transition. It didn't work.

[April Ajoy]

Oh, no, it's fine. I was just. I was just making a stupid joke. Please continue. Christian Today. We have a clip, it was a couple weeks old from Candace Cameron, who is the sister of Kirk Cameron. She played DJ Tanner in Full House, and she is regularly in. Well, she used to be in Hallmark movies, and then she went and started her own program because she didn't like that Hallmark featured gay people. This is basically the story.

[Tim Whitaker]

She was standing on her Christian convictions.

[April Ajoy]

You know, but she loves gay people. Doesn't mean she doesn't love them.

[Tim Whitaker]

Right. As long as they believe, you know, the gospel and repent of their sin. Like, you know, she's colorblind and sexual orientation. Blind.

[April Ajoy]

Love the sinner. Hate the sin if it was a person. Anyway, this is a clip on a podcast. I don't know the name of the podcast, but let's just watch it and we'll just. And then we'll discuss. Don't even want someone watching a scary movie in our house on the tv, because to me, that's just a portal. Listen, I'm in the film industry.

[Tim Whitaker]

I understand how it all works.

[April Ajoy]

However, there's still something that can be incredibly demonic while they've made it. And I feel like it's a portal that gets opened up and let in. And that just reminded me, like, you posted something a while back about liquid death.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah.

[April Ajoy]

And you're like, so do you want to buy a product that is literally being cursed? Cursed as it's going out into distribution?

[Tim Whitaker]

What does that mean?

[April Ajoy]

Oh, I can explain this.

[Tim Whitaker]

Thank you.

[April Ajoy]

I need help and Pentecostal here.

[Tim Whitaker]

Please educate me. Yes. If you didn't know, I didn't know.

[April Ajoy]

Everything that you come in contact with has a spirit attached to it. It could be good spirits. It could be of God. And if it's not of God, it is of the devil. And so when you watch TV and you watch. She specifically talked about scary movies, which is what they usually say, but it doesn't have to be just scary movies, but the demons that were a part of the writing of that film, of the producing of that film, of the editing of that film, live within the pixels of the film. And when you watch it, you then open up a portal straight into your body where demons can then come out of the TV and into your home, potentially possessing you in the most extreme Casey cases, but most likely just oppressing you. You now have evil spirits within your home. And I wish I could say I never bought into this, but there have been several times in my life after I watched something that was a little more demonic than I would like to it to have been, I would literally rebuke the demonic spirits and declare the name of Jesus. Over them and say that they were not welcome and that they had to leave. And I didn't necessarily fully believe it, but I did it just in case, because it had been drilled into my head that demons could come through the TV into my soul. And I don't want to admit how long ago it was that I did that.

[Tim Whitaker]

Okay, you don't have to.

[April Ajoy]

Also, that happened just a few years ago. There was a lady out of Texas. Do you remember the movie Hocus Pocus 2?

[Tim Whitaker]

Yes.

[April Ajoy]

Straight to Disney kids movie. Well, there's a lady in Texas who warned parents not to watch it because they were witches that would unleash hell into your home and that demons would come through the TV from Hocus Pocus 2.

[Tim Whitaker]

I'm kind of at a loss here. Okay, but how does liquid death fit into this? Just because it has death in the word in the title, it's automatically yes.

[April Ajoy]

Because death is always evil. It's not a natural part of humanity.

[Tim Whitaker]

Wow. Yeah. I mean, that's just what a way to live. I'm just being honest. I mean, look, I don't do scary movies. I'm a huge scaredy cat, okay? I don't do that. I don't do them. But I also don't believe that there are demons, Demons living inside of the pixels that are going to oppress or possess me if I watch it.

[April Ajoy]

Yeah. I mean, I do have bad dreams. That's just because I have vivid, very vivid dreams, regardless of what I watch.

[Tim Whitaker]

And Liza, thanks again for another super chat. Oh, yeah. I remember growing up with this. With. With this. Disney was the greatest Portal guys.

[April Ajoy]

Oh, yeah. They do after Disney a lot.

[Tim Whitaker]

Well, that makes sense because I feel like they're always picking on Disney for, like, you know, LGBTQ indoctrination, etc, so it's so stupid.

[April Ajoy]

I mean, I will say she really.

[Tim Whitaker]

Believes better.

[April Ajoy]

Which is wild to me because she works in the film industry, so she knows what goes on. And make like, listen, listen. Beecher is a film professor and they've directed and produced many films, one of which was a comedic horror film a couple years ago. And I went on set where there was a very creepy, demonic looking creature that was part of the big bad thing, right? And when you see him backstage just eating a chick fil a sandwich, you know, it's just like, it kind of takes the demonic scare. You just. You see what it is. It's just a bunch of people making a movie and it's fun and it's a lot of work and there's no demons. Involved.

[Tim Whitaker]

Right. There's no satanic ritual involved. There's no goat being sacrificed at some kind of altar. It's just people making art.

[April Ajoy]

Yeah. It's just art. And if the art scares you, it doesn't mean you now have a demon. It just means you're scared. And that was the intention of the filmmaker, actually.

[Tim Whitaker]

Right. Yes. They actually did their job. They did their job. So congratulations. So, yeah. Wow. Well, what a show, huh?

[April Ajoy]

What's a show?

[Tim Whitaker]

We covered a lot. Yeah.

[April Ajoy]

Yeah.

[Tim Whitaker]

Can I. Can I. Can I address the audience for one second? April, while we're all here together live on the air and maybe listening on podcast, I just want to say I am super, super grateful for all of you who tune in to these lives and who listen to the podcast and watch our content. I know that there's a lot of content out there, and you could be watching anyone else's show, which I'm sure you do at different times throughout the day, but I really appreciate you tuning in. And April and I are really committed to the show and to making this work and to helping you feel not alone.

[April Ajoy]

And.

[Tim Whitaker]

But also, you guys make us feel not alone too. So it's very much reciprocal because there are times when April and I talk and we're like, man, it is just like a tough time to be a human. And we're wrestling through what we're seeing in the news and honestly, going on the air and talking to you all, be able to kind of vent and get our thoughts out. It's cathartic for both of us. And so I just want to say a sincere thank you to all of you who are here for all the super chats, for all the support. It really means the world. And we want to do our best to make this as quality and as fun as possible for you, to kind of help you navigate what are some really difficult and tough times. So I just appreciate you guys being here with us. It's great.

[April Ajoy]

I would like to co sign that as well. These are scary, unprecedented times that we're living in, and I do think community is very important, even if it's through a screen and it's just a chat and we're all just hanging out, you know, being sad or laughing about a cringy Christian smut article like last week.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yes. Which we need. Yeah, we need those moments. We are really here doing our best to help you understand Christian nationalism and find a better path forward in faith, politics, and culture. So we love this work. And we're also thinking about just more stuff that we can do that's a little more fun. Maybe we can watch Pamela's Prayer live together sometime. I don't know. But we do have to create a TNA After Dark at some point, April, it has to happen.

[April Ajoy]

So we should just. We should just have an annual homage to that Gospel Coalition article. Or once a year, we just read it again.

[Tim Whitaker]

Just bust it out. Awesome. Well, again, friends, thanks for being here. We have new merch link is in the. In the description. Make sure to like this video and subscribe to the channel if you want to catch this after the fact. Maybe you have to leave early. You can catch the whole stream on podcasts along with our other deep dives on Mondays and Fridays. I'm Tim Whitaker.

[April Ajoy]

And I'm April Ajoy.

[Tim Whitaker]

See ya.