The Tim & April Show Ep. 47: A Tale of Two Americas – How Charlie Kirk Will Be Remembered

Date: September 19, 2025
Host: Tim Whitaker (Founder, The New Evangelicals)
Guest Host: Melinda Hale (Executive Director, The New Evangelicals; sitting in for April)

Episode Overview

Episode 47 of The Tim & April Show, presented by The New Evangelicals, delivers a deeply personal, raw, and thoughtful analysis of the state of faith, politics, and culture in 2025 America. The episode focuses on the troubling assassination of right-wing figure Charlie Kirk and how he will be remembered, the response of American churches and political actors, and the intensifying divide between right and left, especially among Christian communities. Hosts Tim Whitaker and guest Melinda Hale process the week’s heavy news, center their conversation in Christian responsibility, and highlight the importance of honest historical reckoning and continued activism.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Personal Toll and Self-care Amid Crisis

• Melinda voices the emotional weight and exhaustion of activism and living through “one hell of a week”.
• She encourages listeners to take breaks to protect mental health:
  “If you feel the need to detach…please do it and don’t feel any guilt about it. You can’t pour from an empty cup.” (02:01)

2. Rapid Escalation of Christian Nationalism and Authoritarian Moves

• Tim and Melinda reflect on the surprising acceleration of authoritarian policies under the Trump administration, with references to:
  • Project 2025: Much of its agenda is already being implemented.
  • Overlapping crises: From rounding up immigrants without criminal records (e.g., “Alligator Alcatraz”), to the Dept. of Education forming partnerships with Turning Point USA and Heritage Foundation for national civics education.
• Quote:
  “They’re doing all of this on purpose to exhaust us, to make us feel like we’re crazy. Because I feel like I’m being gaslit by so many things that I know to be true...” – Melinda (04:52)

3. The Charlie Kirk Assassination & Divergent Responses

• Hosts unequivocally condemn the violence.
• Tim contextualizes Kirk’s legacy in terms of the environment he fostered:
  “Charlie died in a world that he helped create… he said we’re going to have to accept some gun casualties… The reason I disagreed is because I didn’t want us to find that acceptable.” (15:40)
• Divergent church responses:
  • White evangelical churches: Public grief, martyrdom narratives, valorizing Kirk as a “modern day prophet.”
  • Black/progressive churches: Outrage at erasure of Kirk’s racist, homophobic, and dehumanizing rhetoric and the gaslighting inherent in demanding silence or empathy from those he harmed.
• Melinda’s impassioned reaction to white churches’ response:
  “All I heard was him dehumanizing me… all I heard was him saying civil rights was a mistake… You cannot tell me what that man was saying was not racist… Look, I’m not crazy. This is my lived experience.” (11:41)

4. Racism, DEI, and False Meritocracy: Rooting Out Systemic Myths

• Analysis of Kirk’s infamous statements about Black pilots and DEI:
  • Tim exposes the unholy alliance of pulpits and right-wing media reinforcing racist presuppositions.
  • Melinda breaks down misconceptions about affirmative action vs DEI, using the analogy of accessibility for disabled employees (20:07), and asserts:
    “When you have affirmative action or DEI, you’re saying that only white people are entitled. That’s racist. There’s no other way around it.” (23:35)
• Memorable moment: Montage of Kirk quotes revealing explicit racism, misogyny, and anti-LGBTQ rhetoric.
  • Melinda: “What context could possibly be needed for you to say those statements are okay or of Jesus in any way? …Not a single thing that he said that I… would ever say is okay.” (28:54)

5. The White Evangelical Martyr Complex

• Tim draws parallels between Kirk’s teachings and overtly anti-Christ attitudes, as well as the self-perpetuating white evangelical narrative of persecution and grievance.
• Quote:
  “Evangelicalism is inherently a-historical. …I was taught that Martin Luther King solved racism in the 60s.” (39:50)

6. Right-Wing Media and Government Response: Calls for Retaliation, Hypocrisy, and Suppression

• Compilation of right-wing influencer responses (e.g., LibsOfTikTok, Elon Musk, Laura Loomer), demanding retribution, declaring war, and labeling Democrats as terrorists with little-to-no evidence or details about the shooter (48:21).
• Stark double standard highlighted by contrasting right’s demand for empathy with their own cruelty towards political opponents, exemplified by Loomer’s tweet celebrating Joe Biden’s illness (50:41).
• Melinda:
  “Nobody on the right calls out anybody on the right. …It’s about accountability.” (52:09)

Segment: Right-Wing Authoritarian Rhetoric Escalates (61:33)

• Clip of Vice President JD Vance hosting the Charlie Kirk Show from the White House, blaming the left and promising crackdowns.
• Stephen Miller:
  “It is a vast domestic terror movement… we are going to use every resource… to identify, disrupt, dismantle, and destroy these networks and make America safe again. We will do it in Charlie’s name.” (65:54)
• Tim:
  “This feels like Reichstag fire energy… they don’t want a two party system… it’s about power and control.” (68:45)

7. The Erasure and Rewrite of American History

• Discussion of right-wing erasure of uncomfortable historical truths, including Confederate monument restoration ($billions in right-wing media and advocacy money), scrubbing government sites of DOJ reports on right-wing violence, and the new civics curriculum partnerships.
• Melinda:
  “If you would just admit what the history was, we can move forward… But there’s no accountability, they just want to change the narrative. It’s terrifying.” (74:15)

8. Gun Violence, Hypocrisy, and the Value of Lives

• Hosts reiterate how the right’s selective empathy is glaring – no public lament or action for victims of school shootings, gun violence, children in Gaza, or assassinated progressive politicians.
• Tim, describing seeing Kirk’s graphic shooting:
  “If you were unfortunate enough to see that video, put it in the body of a five-year-old… There are no kid-sized bullet wounds.” (57:15)

9. Legacy of Anti-Blackness, Underlying Everything

• Melinda anchors American dysfunction in its unaddressed, historical anti-blackness. Her personal family history from Mississippi illustrates the nearness of racial violence.
  “Black people have never tried to get revenge… all we’ve ever asked for is acknowledgement, apology, and a little bit of money.” (42:36)

10. Recent Lynchings and Continued Threat to Marginalized Communities

• Hosts discuss the recent hanging deaths—Trey Reed (Black man, MS) and Corey Zucchaitis (White homeless man, MS)—and the immediate jump by authorities to call them suicides, echoing a long tradition of minimizing anti-Black violence.
• Melinda:
  “They’re still lynching people in the South and have the audacity to say it is a suicide… they do not view Black bodies as worthy of investigation.” (80:27)

11. Allyship, Reflection, and the Call to White Progressive Christians

• Tim calls on white listeners to go beyond white progressive bubbles:
  “You have to think about decolonization… start letting voices who have a different experience shape how you see the world.” (83:02)
• Melinda cautions:
  “Don’t do the work because you want a pat on the back. Do it because you know it’s important.” (85:24)
• Tim:
  “Don’t put ‘ally’ in your bio. That’s a title given to you, not claimed.” (85:53)

12. Weird Christian S* Segment: Absurdity of Evangelical Performance Culture**

• Light-hearted (but pointed) critique of over-the-top church sermon illustrations; e.g., a pastor using a full rock-climbing wall to deliver a mediocre metaphor.
• Melinda:
  “Those walls aren’t cheap. That money could go to someone in need. …There are people who need that money and you’re bringing in a rock wall…” (87:48)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Christian Values & Dehumanization:
  “When I read the red letters and then I hear the words of Charlie… I don’t see the teachings of Christ. I don’t see the attitude of Christ in them. Lest we forget, Jesus’s harshest words were not for the marginalized… it was for the religious leaders. …He calls those people whitewashed tombs. …He doesn’t call the prostitute or the tax collector… sons of Satan. …That’s where the vitriol is aimed.” – Tim (29:35)

• On White Christianity’s Historical Amnesia:
  “Evangelicalism is inherently ahistorical. …I was taught that Martin Luther King Jr. solved racism in the 60s.” – Tim (39:50)

• On Systemic Racism:
  “They started calling Black people lazy when we stopped working for free.” – Melinda (20:07)

• Exposing Double Standards:
  “These are real tweets from major influencers… ‘this is war’ …’Democrats are terrorists’… But when Biden was ill: ‘I am happy to see Joe Biden suffering.’… Don’t ever forget what Joe Biden and his enablers took away from all of us. …Biden doesn’t deserve any sympathy.’” – Tim (50:41)

• Historical Reckoning:
  “If you would just admit what the history was, we can move forward. No one’s trying to act like we hate America… We have to learn from our mistakes.” – Melinda (74:15)

Important Timestamps

• 02:00 – Melinda on burnout and the need for self-care
• 04:52 – Acceleration of authoritarian policies and the “deliberate exhaustion” strategy
• 11:41 – Black Church’s perspective on Kirk’s martyrdom; Melinda’s passionate testimony
• 15:40 – “Charlie died in a world that he helped create.” (gun culture and its consequences)
• 20:07 – “Black people were called lazy when we stopped working for free,” and DEI 101
• 25:47 – 3-minute montage of deeply problematic Kirk quotes
• 29:35 – Sermon on the Mount vs Kirk’s teachings
• 48:21 – Readings of right-wing reaction tweets post-Kirk shooting
• 61:33 – JD Vance and Stephen Miller double down on anti-left rhetoric
• 74:15 – Scrubbing and rewriting American history
• 80:27 – Ongoing lynchings and police denial in the South

Running Themes

• Deep disillusionment with the state of white evangelicalism and its complicity in racism, bigotry, and authoritarian politics.
• The contrast between performative Christianity and the radical teachings/lifestyle of Jesus.
• Calls for vigilance, historical literacy, and solidarity—especially among those with privilege.
• The real, ongoing threat posed by white supremacist and authoritarian movements—and the need to keep pushing for justice, even as burnout and disillusionment grow.

Tone & Style

• Direct, passionate, and deeply personal, with an urgent call for honesty, accountability, and action.
• Blunt condemnation of hypocrisy, racism, and moral cowardice found in right-wing Christian spaces.
• Moments of humor and community (e.g., lampooning church props), leaven a heavy episode.

This summary captures the central themes, substance, and memorable exchanges in Ep. 47 of The Tim & April Show, serving both as a resource for those unable to listen and as a touchstone for ongoing discussion around faith and culture in post-2024 America.