47. A tale of Two Americas: How Charlie Kirk Will be Remembered

Summary

The Tim & April Show Ep. 47: A Tale of Two Americas – How Charlie Kirk Will Be Remembered

Date: September 19, 2025
Host: Tim Whitaker (Founder, The New Evangelicals)
Guest Host: Melinda Hale (Executive Director, The New Evangelicals; sitting in for April)

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Episode Overview

Episode 47 of The Tim & April Show, presented by The New Evangelicals, delivers a deeply personal, raw, and thoughtful analysis of the state of faith, politics, and culture in 2025 America. The episode focuses on the troubling assassination of right-wing figure Charlie Kirk and how he will be remembered, the response of American churches and political actors, and the intensifying divide between right and left, especially among Christian communities. Hosts Tim Whitaker and guest Melinda Hale process the week’s heavy news, center their conversation in Christian responsibility, and highlight the importance of honest historical reckoning and continued activism.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Personal Toll and Self-care Amid Crisis

• Melinda voices the emotional weight and exhaustion of activism and living through “one hell of a week”.
• She encourages listeners to take breaks to protect mental health:
  “If you feel the need to detach…please do it and don’t feel any guilt about it. You can’t pour from an empty cup.” (02:01)

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2. Rapid Escalation of Christian Nationalism and Authoritarian Moves

• Tim and Melinda reflect on the surprising acceleration of authoritarian policies under the Trump administration, with references to:
  • Project 2025: Much of its agenda is already being implemented.
  • Overlapping crises: From rounding up immigrants without criminal records (e.g., “Alligator Alcatraz”), to the Dept. of Education forming partnerships with Turning Point USA and Heritage Foundation for national civics education.
• Quote:
  “They’re doing all of this on purpose to exhaust us, to make us feel like we’re crazy. Because I feel like I’m being gaslit by so many things that I know to be true...” – Melinda (04:52)

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3. The Charlie Kirk Assassination & Divergent Responses

• Hosts unequivocally condemn the violence.
• Tim contextualizes Kirk’s legacy in terms of the environment he fostered:
  “Charlie died in a world that he helped create… he said we’re going to have to accept some gun casualties… The reason I disagreed is because I didn’t want us to find that acceptable.” (15:40)
• Divergent church responses:
  • White evangelical churches: Public grief, martyrdom narratives, valorizing Kirk as a “modern day prophet.”
  • Black/progressive churches: Outrage at erasure of Kirk’s racist, homophobic, and dehumanizing rhetoric and the gaslighting inherent in demanding silence or empathy from those he harmed.
• Melinda’s impassioned reaction to white churches’ response:
  “All I heard was him dehumanizing me… all I heard was him saying civil rights was a mistake… You cannot tell me what that man was saying was not racist… Look, I’m not crazy. This is my lived experience.” (11:41)

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4. Racism, DEI, and False Meritocracy: Rooting Out Systemic Myths

• Analysis of Kirk’s infamous statements about Black pilots and DEI:
  • Tim exposes the unholy alliance of pulpits and right-wing media reinforcing racist presuppositions.
  • Melinda breaks down misconceptions about affirmative action vs DEI, using the analogy of accessibility for disabled employees (20:07), and asserts:
    “When you have affirmative action or DEI, you’re saying that only white people are entitled. That’s racist. There’s no other way around it.” (23:35)
• Memorable moment: Montage of Kirk quotes revealing explicit racism, misogyny, and anti-LGBTQ rhetoric.
  • Melinda: “What context could possibly be needed for you to say those statements are okay or of Jesus in any way? …Not a single thing that he said that I… would ever say is okay.” (28:54)

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5. The White Evangelical Martyr Complex

• Tim draws parallels between Kirk’s teachings and overtly anti-Christ attitudes, as well as the self-perpetuating white evangelical narrative of persecution and grievance.
• Quote:
  “Evangelicalism is inherently a-historical. …I was taught that Martin Luther King solved racism in the 60s.” (39:50)

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6. Right-Wing Media and Government Response: Calls for Retaliation, Hypocrisy, and Suppression

• Compilation of right-wing influencer responses (e.g., LibsOfTikTok, Elon Musk, Laura Loomer), demanding retribution, declaring war, and labeling Democrats as terrorists with little-to-no evidence or details about the shooter (48:21).
• Stark double standard highlighted by contrasting right’s demand for empathy with their own cruelty towards political opponents, exemplified by Loomer’s tweet celebrating Joe Biden’s illness (50:41).
• Melinda:
  “Nobody on the right calls out anybody on the right. …It’s about accountability.” (52:09)

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Segment: Right-Wing Authoritarian Rhetoric Escalates (61:33)

• Clip of Vice President JD Vance hosting the Charlie Kirk Show from the White House, blaming the left and promising crackdowns.
• Stephen Miller:
  “It is a vast domestic terror movement… we are going to use every resource… to identify, disrupt, dismantle, and destroy these networks and make America safe again. We will do it in Charlie’s name.” (65:54)
• Tim:
  “This feels like Reichstag fire energy… they don’t want a two party system… it’s about power and control.” (68:45)

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7. The Erasure and Rewrite of American History

• Discussion of right-wing erasure of uncomfortable historical truths, including Confederate monument restoration ($billions in right-wing media and advocacy money), scrubbing government sites of DOJ reports on right-wing violence, and the new civics curriculum partnerships.
• Melinda:
  “If you would just admit what the history was, we can move forward… But there’s no accountability, they just want to change the narrative. It’s terrifying.” (74:15)

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8. Gun Violence, Hypocrisy, and the Value of Lives

• Hosts reiterate how the right’s selective empathy is glaring – no public lament or action for victims of school shootings, gun violence, children in Gaza, or assassinated progressive politicians.
• Tim, describing seeing Kirk’s graphic shooting:
  “If you were unfortunate enough to see that video, put it in the body of a five-year-old… There are no kid-sized bullet wounds.” (57:15)

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9. Legacy of Anti-Blackness, Underlying Everything

• Melinda anchors American dysfunction in its unaddressed, historical anti-blackness. Her personal family history from Mississippi illustrates the nearness of racial violence.
  “Black people have never tried to get revenge… all we’ve ever asked for is acknowledgement, apology, and a little bit of money.” (42:36)

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10. Recent Lynchings and Continued Threat to Marginalized Communities

• Hosts discuss the recent hanging deaths—Trey Reed (Black man, MS) and Corey Zucchaitis (White homeless man, MS)—and the immediate jump by authorities to call them suicides, echoing a long tradition of minimizing anti-Black violence.
• Melinda:
  “They’re still lynching people in the South and have the audacity to say it is a suicide… they do not view Black bodies as worthy of investigation.” (80:27)

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11. Allyship, Reflection, and the Call to White Progressive Christians

• Tim calls on white listeners to go beyond white progressive bubbles:
  “You have to think about decolonization… start letting voices who have a different experience shape how you see the world.” (83:02)
• Melinda cautions:
  “Don’t do the work because you want a pat on the back. Do it because you know it’s important.” (85:24)
• Tim:
  “Don’t put ‘ally’ in your bio. That’s a title given to you, not claimed.” (85:53)

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12. Weird Christian S* Segment: Absurdity of Evangelical Performance Culture**

• Light-hearted (but pointed) critique of over-the-top church sermon illustrations; e.g., a pastor using a full rock-climbing wall to deliver a mediocre metaphor.
• Melinda:
  “Those walls aren’t cheap. That money could go to someone in need. …There are people who need that money and you’re bringing in a rock wall…” (87:48)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Christian Values & Dehumanization:
  “When I read the red letters and then I hear the words of Charlie… I don’t see the teachings of Christ. I don’t see the attitude of Christ in them. Lest we forget, Jesus’s harshest words were not for the marginalized… it was for the religious leaders. …He calls those people whitewashed tombs. …He doesn’t call the prostitute or the tax collector… sons of Satan. …That’s where the vitriol is aimed.” – Tim (29:35)

• On White Christianity’s Historical Amnesia:
  “Evangelicalism is inherently ahistorical. …I was taught that Martin Luther King Jr. solved racism in the 60s.” – Tim (39:50)

• On Systemic Racism:
  “They started calling Black people lazy when we stopped working for free.” – Melinda (20:07)

• Exposing Double Standards:
  “These are real tweets from major influencers… ‘this is war’ …’Democrats are terrorists’… But when Biden was ill: ‘I am happy to see Joe Biden suffering.’… Don’t ever forget what Joe Biden and his enablers took away from all of us. …Biden doesn’t deserve any sympathy.’” – Tim (50:41)

• Historical Reckoning:
  “If you would just admit what the history was, we can move forward. No one’s trying to act like we hate America… We have to learn from our mistakes.” – Melinda (74:15)

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Important Timestamps

• 02:00 – Melinda on burnout and the need for self-care
• 04:52 – Acceleration of authoritarian policies and the “deliberate exhaustion” strategy
• 11:41 – Black Church’s perspective on Kirk’s martyrdom; Melinda’s passionate testimony
• 15:40 – “Charlie died in a world that he helped create.” (gun culture and its consequences)
• 20:07 – “Black people were called lazy when we stopped working for free,” and DEI 101
• 25:47 – 3-minute montage of deeply problematic Kirk quotes
• 29:35 – Sermon on the Mount vs Kirk’s teachings
• 48:21 – Readings of right-wing reaction tweets post-Kirk shooting
• 61:33 – JD Vance and Stephen Miller double down on anti-left rhetoric
• 74:15 – Scrubbing and rewriting American history
• 80:27 – Ongoing lynchings and police denial in the South

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Running Themes

• Deep disillusionment with the state of white evangelicalism and its complicity in racism, bigotry, and authoritarian politics.
• The contrast between performative Christianity and the radical teachings/lifestyle of Jesus.
• Calls for vigilance, historical literacy, and solidarity—especially among those with privilege.
• The real, ongoing threat posed by white supremacist and authoritarian movements—and the need to keep pushing for justice, even as burnout and disillusionment grow.

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Tone & Style

• Direct, passionate, and deeply personal, with an urgent call for honesty, accountability, and action.
• Blunt condemnation of hypocrisy, racism, and moral cowardice found in right-wing Christian spaces.
• Moments of humor and community (e.g., lampooning church props), leaven a heavy episode.

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This summary captures the central themes, substance, and memorable exchanges in Ep. 47 of The Tim & April Show, serving both as a resource for those unable to listen and as a touchstone for ongoing discussion around faith and culture in post-2024 America.

Transcript

[A]

You're listening to a new evangelicals production, the Tim and April show, where we unravel faith, politics, and culture.

[B]

Oh, man. Oh, man. Hello, everyone. Welcome into the Tim and April Show. That's. You're not April. A joy. I gotta get rid of that. No, you're not. Goodbye. It's gone. Okay. Special guest today because April is with her partner BER at a movie festival because they have a movie that got chosen to be premiered there. Melinda Hale, executive director of the New Evangelicals. And I'm Tim Whitaker, the founder of the New Evangelicals. You know, it's going to be a good show today, Melinda. Thank you for. For hopping in. It means a lot. You're not. You're not new to the Tim and April audience. You've been on before, you've hung out with us before, and you run the organization that. That sponsors and produces the show. So it's great to have you.

[A]

Yeah, thanks for having me. Where's my name plate?

[B]

Tim, I'm sorry. I was doing so many things, I totally forgot.

[A]

You're fine.

[B]

Oh, man. Well, friends, listen, welcome in. Please make sure to give this video or the stream a like. It helps to get into the YouTube algorithms because we have to play that game. If you're listening on podcast, make sure to give this show a rating and a review. It helps us out over there as well. FYI, if you're watching live, Cassidy, who usually produces behind the Scenes, is. She's away on vacation. So I'm kind of managing the chat and pulling content and giving you all commentary with Melinda. So I'll do my best to do all those things well. But, Melinda, I mean, how are you doing? It's been one hell of a week. There's so much to get to. So many things have happened so quickly. I don't know. You and I have talked behind the scenes a bit because we chat pretty often, but this is my first time going live on the show since everything that happened with Charlie Kirk and just the acceleration of the Trump administration. I'm just kind of curious to hear how you're hanging in there.

[A]

I mean, I'm not great. I'm not gonna lie. Like, it's. It's a. It's a rough week. It's been rough for my family, a lot of friends. It's just. It's heavy and it's hard to know how to navigate so many things happening at once. And I've been trying to figure out how to protect my peace and my mental health while also still showing up and advocating for other people, because that's where my heart is. And also being the best mom that I can be and being the best wife and friend and all of that. And, and it's hard. It is very, very hard to hold space for all of these things. I have a very high capacity, and I feel like when I start to break down, not that I'm putting myself on a pedestal in that way, but I have a high capacity. I just do. And it's starting to break a bit because this is too much. And I don't think we as humans were built to have to deal with so much at once. And I just want to encourage anybody that is watching, if you feel the need to detach for a minute for, for yourself, please do it and don't feel any guilt about it. You have to take care of yourself because this is just the beginning of all of this. It hasn't even been a year into this administration, into this, this feeling of this regime. And so we have to be able to equip ourselves in the right way. And you can't pour from an empty cup and you can't give if you have nothing left. So I've had to learn, okay, I need to take a step back for a few minutes or not look at my phone for a couple of hours or whatever the case is. And I just want to encourage people to do that as well.

[B]

Yeah, no, I think that's really wise. You know, you and I, I mean, you've been on the board of the New Evangelicals, but we've, we've done work behind the scenes in different capacities. And one thing that you and I are passionate about is try. We really tried for several years, a long time to kind of raise like, the alarm of like, hey, what's happening in the right wing world is like, really, it's pretty dangerous. You know, like, there's a real rise here of, of some right wing, you know, Christian nationalism. And it's really well funded. There are organizations that are, are, are. Well, they have a lot of money, you know, billionaire money, and there's. They're, they're doing things that really could be dangerous in this, in this project 2025, and this Trump administration could be really detrimental. And, you know, we did our best and the election didn't go how we hoped. And, and now we're really seeing. What I think is, I mean, even for my, from my vantage point, like a surprising acceleration of how fast things are moving. I mean, even, even in the very beginning, watching how Elon Musk handled this Doge thing, how they gutted the USAID all the way to how we're rounding up immigrants. Most. Most of which have not had any criminal history in this country, most of which are peaceful people, many of which are in the system, stuck in limbo, and how they're being thrown into places called Alligator, Alcatraz. And then everything with Charlie Kirk and now what we're with Jimmy Kimmel. I mean, it's happening very quickly.

[A]

Yeah. And it's by design. You know, it's so we can't keep up, so we get exhausted, so that we do kind of disassociate and attach altogether so that they can keep doing things, sweeping things under the rug, doing things in the middle of the night with, you know, with Congress voting on things that affect our lives when we can't watch on C Span what they're doing or lobby, you know, try to get. Send in petitions or whatever the case may be. They're doing all of this on purpose to exhaust us, to make us feel like we're crazy. Because I feel like I'm being gassed, gaslit by so many things that I know to be true. I know them to be true. But they will tell you the sky isn't blue when you're looking at it directly. And that's. And that's what's driving me crazy. It's like I know what these people are doing. And so I want everybody. And I'm saying this very much for myself also, stay focused, stay in community with people and. And read like that sounds like such a simple thing, but read, because they're getting ready. The Department of Education is just partnered with Turning Point USA and the Heritage foundation to create civics programs for children, public school. Your tax dollars are going to be going to that programming. I don't think people understand that because it also happened late last night.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Okay. That also happened late. So please get those history books, Keep them, preserve them, teach your children. Be in community with people, talk to people that know history. You know, Jamar Tisney is a friend of tne. He is a great historian to follow because he knows the truth of things. Follow historians also. T. Stormer is a very good historian to follow, but you have to stay aware because there is so much happening and they're doing it at fast pace on purpose.

[B]

Yeah, I do want to read this super chat from Joseph. This is really scary. I'm not going to lie. Joseph. First off, thank you for the super chat. Friends. Just so you know, the Tim April show is produced and sponsored by The New Evangelicals. It's a nonprofit organization, so all Super Chats go right to making this work possible. We do not have billionaire money, and we rely on the generosity of this community in order to make that happen. So thank you so much, Joseph, for the super, super chat. And I know Melinda and I feel the same way. And this is the article that you sent me last night. Education Department partners with conservative groups for civics programming. A coalition of 41 groups, including Turning Point USA and the Heritage foundation, will create educational programming for the country's 250th anniversary next year. So, yeah, I mean, this is a very real thing. And again, if you, you know, I have a lot of academic friends, although I myself am not an academic, who are like, yeah, we've been following this stuff for decades, decades. And media didn't really pick it up. A lot of people thought we were just kind of out there and kind of being almost conspiratorial. But no. Like, the reason why this is moving so fast is because they've been planning this for a long time. Right. Probably 2025 was a huge playbook that we knew about before the election and that they tried to downplay, but we all knew it was real. And the second he got Trump, got elected, boom, boom, they started by the playbook. I think right now there's a website that. That tracks that.

[A]

It's tracking it.

[B]

Yeah, about half of it's implemented already. It's only been nine months. Right. So, yeah. You know, friends, I don't know. I feel like sometimes, Melinda, when you're on this side of the screen, people can think that you don't have feelings, that you're not concerned, that you don't have worries. But no, like, we're. We're concerned. We are deeply concerned, which is why we are doubling, tripling down on this work, because we really feel a sense of obligation to do everything we can to carve and create a better path forward for our neighbors and also give Christians who are really be bewildered by what's happening a the education to understand why it's okay to be shocked but not surprised. And then also. Right. What do we do going forward? Like, how do we find that better path? What traditions can we learn from? So it's going to be a tough road, folks. Like, buckle up. This is not a microwave situation. This is a long. A long play. So we need people to do the work long term. And very briefly, I'll read this one, too. Caroline, thank you so much for the super chat. Can we talk more about the systemic suppression of Charlie Kirk critiques online and the gaslighting inherent to fascism and people he hated now supporting him. Yes, we are going to get into Charlie Kirk and that whole thing that's coming up that's actually in our next segment. So it's going to happen. But yeah, Melinda, I'm with you all the way on this. You know, it's very tough. So.

[A]

And I think for us, again, we, you know, we do this for a living and we have conversations and we have this organization, but we're also humans and we're parents and we're partners and we have friends. I mean, I'm in a marginalized group, but you have friends in marginalized groups. And that's who we're standing up for. And that's what our faith informs us to do. So it's very clear to me what side we should be on, what we should be fighting, what we should be advocating for. And it's very disheartening. And I have seen this, obviously in the last week. A lot of Christians, progressive Christians, were shocked to see how many Christians reacted in such a negative way in this last week. And I think a lot of people are questioning their faith journey. They're questioning their place. But that's why new evangelicals exists. That's why we're here. Yeah.

[B]

So let's kind of dig into this Charlie Kirk thing. You know, first, a few caveats and friends, if you follow me or Melinda, on our personal accounts at Melinda Hale, at Tim Whitaker Speaks. We talked about this part many, many times. And we're not going to dig into the details all the way regarding, like, motivations and why this happened, because there's a lot that we still don't know. But obviously the new evangelicals, the Tim and April show, Melinda and I, we, we completely condemn, of course, the violence and the assassination of Charlie Kirk. I mean, this isn't even a question for us. We follow the way of a crucified Jesus. We believe in non dehumanization. This is not like, well, should we, should we condemn this publicly? No, we made a statement right away. It's horrible. It's terrible. If you know my work, you know that I know people at Turning Point. I've been to America Fest. I've met Charlie Kirk several times. And on a human level, for me, you know, I tell people that my political enemies don't dictate my values. So I do have empathy, even if they think that empathy is toxic. And so I do feel for the people. You know, Charlie's Family, his kids, of course, you know, it's horrible and terrible. And we're not going to get into the shooter's motivations because we just don't know. And there's way too much noise out there. And this is not an investigative show. That's not what we do. But all this happened last week and, you know, it's been really interesting because there are so many different layers to unpack here. There is the layer of just how the right immediately responded to this, the words of Trump and J.D. vance that we can get into. And then I kind of want to shift into the response by the church and how I'm kind of seeing the broadly speaking, the white evangelical church and the black church responding to this in very different, a completely polar opposite way. I think that's really important to highlight here because it speaks to a deeper division that I think has been going on in this country for a long, long time.

[A]

Absolutely. And I mean, specifically speaking about the differences between white churches and black churches, that polarization in general has happened over years because black churches have historically focused on social justice, because our demographic is impacted by social justice initiatives and we're the ones that are recipients of social justice. Right. Excuse me. So for white evangelicals to not really talk about social justice is. Because it doesn't impact them at. And so when you see white evangelicals really putting on a pedestal and uplifting this young man who they believe was truly a modern day prophet. I've heard that phrase multiple times. Who they believe was truly doing the work of Jesus because he was going to colleges and speaking with people from different backgrounds and that he loved everybody and just was pushing them to have a better life. On my side of the aisle, as a black woman that grew up in a black church that has always been a progressive Christian, we're over there side eyeing. Like, what are you hearing? Because all I heard was him dehumanizing me. All I heard was him saying that civil rights was a mistake. All I heard was him saying 4 Ivy League black women graduates did not have the brain processing power to be taken seriously and that they took a white person's spot. So I'm here wondering, as a Christian, how you can justify that and what context could possibly be needed for you to say that those statements are okay or they are of Jesus in any way, shape or form. I'm sitting this man, sitting here watching this man say that if you were gay and you were in Gaza, they would throw you off of a building. But they don't have tall buildings anymore. And you're going to sit there and tell me that this man is a man of God, that he is a Christian? You think Jesus would say that? So I'm, I, I'm. I feel again, crazy. I feel like I'm being gaslit because my faith has never told me to say any of those things about any human being. I get sassy sometimes, but I would never say something like that. And it's the level of justification. Because the problem is, is that if people actually reconcile with the fact that they have been supporting this man, then they have to realize, I have been supporting racism. I have been supporting homophobia. I have been supporting xenophobia, I've been supporting misogyny. And I have to figure that out. So all I can say to them is that you need to reconcile with it. You need to go to therapy. But you have to start by admitting that the things that he was saying was not okay. And I don't know why they can't just get to the point where they can say, you know what? That was wrong. Your pride is not important here. The words that he said and how he dehumanized other people are what's important. I'm sorry, I'm going on a tangent. I told you I was holding all of this in. But it's so frustrating to me for people looking for context to justify horrible things. If you have to continuously search for context for something, then maybe what that person is saying is not good. You know what I mean? You guys are going on an expedition to try to find reasons to justify the horrible things that this man said. He absolutely should not have been killed like that. Nobody should. But if you're going to tell me that I need to stop calling out, using his own words against them, and you're going to tell me to my black face that what he said wasn't racist. Look, I'm not crazy. This is my lived experience. I grew up in Santa Barbara, California, which is an aggressively white city. I know what racism looks like. I know what microaggressions are. You cannot tell me that what that man was saying was not racist. And you, a follower of Jesus, are going to say that it's okay and that that's not what he meant. That is exactly what he meant. And you just can't bring yourself to say it was bad. I'm done.

[B]

So, no, it's, it's. You're, of course, as always, you're on the money. I wrote a subsec about this last week. I wrote two. I wrote one. Look Again, we can hold both things together. Right? We can speak the truth, and we can also be loving. So obviously, as we said a thousand times, we don't, we don't condone, of course, what happened to Charlie. It's horrible, should never have happened. And also, I do think about, you know, two things. One, Charlie died in a world that he helped create, because this is a person who said that, hey, look, we're going to have to accept some, some gun casualties in the country that has a strong Second Amendment. And the reason why I disagreed with Charlie on that is because I didn't want us to find that acceptable. I didn't want to live in a country where people, children, Charlie, Melissa Hortman, were killed by gun violence. That's not an acceptable threshold for me, period. Right. So empathy for Charlie goes out in the sense of, like, man, I, I, I, I hate that the world that he helped create was, was, was part of what took his life, this gun culture obsession. Right. The fact that we can get guns so easily in this country. And the other thing that I want to point out, this might be enlightening because I'll be honest with you, too. I am someone who obviously I track Charlie, and I, I'm pretty deep in the Christian nationalist weeds. I was surprised by how many people I either knew or, or used to know on my Facebook sharing were incredibly like, you know, oh, man of God just died. Oh, this is not the time for, for harsh words. I'm thinking, wow, you guys are way more tapped in than I thought. I, I didn't know that, that you were even aware of, like, this bubble that I was a part of. Right. Even though you're part of the white evangelical church. And as I was thinking about it, and this was kind of my, my, my other part, I was trying to explain to my audience, like, why are so many, in particular white evangelicals, seeing him as a martyr, Right. When he preached and said things that were so antichrist in nature. And I'm gonna say something that might upset some people, but I believe I have to tell the truth. And this is as honest as I can be. So I use the example of dei, right? Charlie talks a lot about dei. He's made comments how, because of DEI initiatives, you know, if he sees a black pilot in the cockpit, he feels like, oh, I hope that he's qualified. Right. Which is complete nonsense. And I'm sure you're gonna speak into why that is so. But one of the things I thought of, you know, because the classic twist is, well, that's out of context. But I was thinking about how I grew up in white evangelicalism. And here is the subtle reality that isn't talked about enough. There's a really unholy alliance between what is preached on the pulpit, from the pulpit on Sundays, and what you hear on political right wing media on Mondays. And I was taught that from the Bible, from white preachers, that if you don't work, you don't eat. And then it was reinforced to me through Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity. Well, that black people are kind of lazy and they just don't want to work, therefore they shouldn't be able to eat. Now, when you combine those two things, right, I know it's incredibly racist and it's terrible and I feel terrible even saying it. But like, I'm just telling you what, how I saw these two things combined.

[A]

My response.

[B]

So, so what? Here's what happens, right? When Charlie Kirk makes his comments about dei, right? The reason why people will say that's out of context is because inherently they agree with the presupposition that 100%, you know, black folks, they could just try harder. If they just worked harder, they could get ahead. And they don't really want to do that. They want to just sit around and play video games. And the Bible says if you don't work, you don't eat. So the problem is not, and this is why I tell people, stop trying to quote Charlie to people in hopes that they're going to change their mind. They ultimately agree with the premise. They agree that unqualified black people are taking the jobs of qualified white people because dei, that's, that's why it's doing that, you know, or that's the main purpose of it, because the Bible says if you don't work, you don't eat. And Rush Limbaugh taught me that as a people group, black people are inherently more lazy. So you can see how these two things coalesce, right? To create a presuppositional framework where people agree with what Charlie said, they just might not. They just might not like how blunt.

[A]

He said it 100%. Okay, so much to respond to. So first and foremost, I think a lot of people don't know the difference between affirmative action and dei. And I'm going to get to that in just a second. But I want to address the black people are lazy comment, because that is something that has been used often. First of all, they started calling black people lazy when we stopped working for free.

[B]

Okay?

[A]

So that's, that's, that and they need to address that. Okay. Also, you can't take away people's ability to work, ability to be educated, and then tell them they're not educated and they're not working. So when you historically have disenfranchised people, kept them out of schools, kept them from jobs, kept them from able to buy houses, kept them from drinking out of water fountains, and then tell them, why don't you have a job, why don't you have a house? Why aren't you educated? It's been this long history of gaslighting. We didn't have the language for it back then, we have the language for it now. And so it blows my mind that people cannot see this timeline of how specifically white evangelical conservative Christians have used language to make black people look like they are in this victimhood when you are actually oppressing seen them. And it drives me crazy because it's right there in front of you. Google is free. We all can read about this information and I highly recommend anybody if you want to read Cast by Isabel Wilkerson. It talks about all of this and it's a fantastic book. Secondly, the easiest way for me to just to tell people the difference between affirmative action and DEI is one, they actually work well when they work together. Affirmative action is giving people the access to something, but DEI is once they're there, how they are included in the framework of what is happening. So this is the best example I can give. Okay, when let's say you, and I'm not even going to use it as a ratio, let's say you hire somebody that is to work in a new office and they happen to be in a wheelchair. You have, you said, you know, I want to have more voices that are disabled to be a part of this work frame. So affirmative action is going to find the highest candidates that are part of the disabled community to be in your workforce. You hire somebody, they show up to work, there's no ramp for them to get inside the door. That's what DEI is making sure that they have a ramp to get inside the door. But then if there's no ramp and then they can't go to work and you say you're lazy, right? Why didn't you come to work today? It's like, well, I couldn't get in the door, right? You didn't have a way for me to get in. You hired me. But why don't. How am I supposed to get inside if there's no ramp for me? It's also, let's say there's a Kid that wants to get invited to a birthday party, they finally get invited to the birthday party. Everybody gets to go to this party every year. They have an allergy. It's making sure that they have food to eat when they get there. That's the dei. Affirmative action is the invitation. DEI is making sure they're comfortable when they get there.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And to say that those systems and that framework is lowering standard. It's not lowering standards. It's making sure that you have the highest candidate and a diverse environment and that everybody feels included, that their voice matters in that moment. And it doesn't matter. DEI is for every. DEI is for women, it is for Jewish people, it is for Asian people, it's for disabled people, it's for neurodivergent. That's what DEI is. It's making sure that whatever environment you are in that you feel comfortable and you have access to the resources that will help you thrive in that moment. And so to say that when you have a firm factor dei, that you're taking a white person's spot, you are saying that only white people are entitled to those things.

[B]

Right, Right.

[A]

And that is racist. There's no other way to get around that. That is just racist.

[B]

Right. That's. I mean, and then they use the word meritocracy, and then you put Pete Hegseth and Donald Trump in the office and you think that they're qualified. Like, it's not about meritocracy. It never was. It's about whiteness. Right. That's the ultimate foundation here. I think it's also worth pointing out that, you know, people were really fighting back hard. Well, when. When Charlie made the comment about the black pilot, it was. It's out of context. No, it's in context. He was lying about what DEI is. Right. And he was making the assumption, or he was telling his audience that somehow DEI lowers like pilot training for black pilots again. And think about, thinking about the underlying presupposition black men or black pilots are too intellectually. They're inferior, and so they need extra help to pass the test. It harkens back to the pseudoscience of white supremacists that would try and make it seem like genetically there was a difference between white people and black people. Because obviously we know that there isn't, scientifically. Obviously. And we also know that all pilots, regardless of age, gender, you know, race, whatever religious affiliation, go through the same training. They log the same hours. And I have a friend who's a pilot. They log a lot of freaking hours. That's why the airline industry is so safe historically. Right. Because they log that time. So for Charlie to say, well, I think, I wonder to myself, gee, I hope he's qualified. It's inherently a racist statement. It's inherently racist. There's no racist to fly planes. Right, right.

[A]

That's how he's acting. It's like, oh, let's make him a pilot.

[B]

Exactly. We gotta fill a quota, you know, oh, you're at Walmart. It's a greeter. You want to fly a plane. That's not how this works at all. Right. And that's what makes, I think, his rhetoric so disingenuous. Maybe this is a good time. You know, you sent me a little montage of some of Charlie's words and again, if people are mad at us, we're just sharing his words. Like we're not. I'm not reading into them. We're sharing his words. I think it's. Think it's worth listening to, Frankly, I think it's worth listening to. This is a 3 minute montage of some of the things that Charlie has said. This is kind of, in my opinion, some of the highlights or lowlights of his legacy that we have to reckon with. Here we go.

[C]

Absolutely.

[B]

I am.

[C]

In fact, it's worse. It's worse. Were these blacks trying to go rob her? Happening all the time in urban America. Prowling blacks go around for fun to go target white people. That's a fact. Black crime is a major issue in our country. Why are you pushing criminal justice reform?

[B]

Exactly.

[C]

Joy Reid and Michelle Obama and Sheila Jackson Lee and Ketanji Brown Jackson. They're coming out and they're saying, I'm only here because affirmative action.

[B]

Yeah, we know.

[C]

You do not have the brain processing power to otherwise be taken really seriously. You had to go steal a white person slot to go be taken somewhat seriously. Now the southern border is of course the great replacement. They're trying to replace us demographically. They're trying to make the country less white. It is an anti white agenda. If I see a black pilot, I'm going to be like, boy, I hope he's qualified. Taylor Swift is now engaged to Travis Kelsey. This is something that I hope will make Taylor Swift more conservative, reject feminism. Submit to your husband, Taylor, you're not in charge. America was at its peak when we halted immigration for 40 years and we dropped our foreign born percentage to its lowest level ever. Ms. Rachel, you quote Leviticus 19. Love your neighbor as yourself. The chapter before affirms God's perfect law. When it comes to sexual matters in Leviticus 18 is that thou shall lay with another man shall be stoned to death. Can we get that picture up, Ryan, of that. That Marvel's Avenger team?

[B]

Now?

[C]

I don't know who the person is on the left. Is the person on the left that. That came and did the interview with Joe the TikTok. Your government is being run by freaks. It's like immediately I have like a flashback to a country where weren't able to do Bud Light commercials. What does being trans even mean? Does it even. Is that even a real thing? It means you need a therapy. We must ban trans affirming care the entire country. I do think that there is a direct correlation between someone's testosterone and their politics on young men. The lower their testosterone, the more likely they are to be democratic.

[A]

So if you had a daughter and she was 10 and she got raped and she was going to give birth and she would. No, wait. Oh. And she was going to give birth and she was going to live, would you want her to go through that and carry her baby?

[C]

That's awfully graphic.

[A]

No, but it's a real life scenario that happens to many people.

[C]

The answer is yes, the baby would be delivered. When blacks in America did not have the same rights they had today. There were less, they were less murderous, there was less break ins. Why is that so?

[D]

I'm sorry, are you trying to say.

[A]

That blacks thrive under subjugation?

[C]

No, I'm saying. I'm asking you the question. The data shows they were actually better in the 1940s. It was bad, it was evil.

[B]

But what happened? Something changed.

[C]

I'm done talking about Epstein. For the time being, I'm going to trust my friends, the administration.

[B]

I mean there's obviously, we could spend a whole show just unpacking every single statement.

[A]

There are a couple things. One, I would, I, I don't know what additional context would be needed to make any of those statements better.

[B]

Right.

[A]

They are sound bites. They are sound bites. We can admit that they're sound bites. But what would you need to make any of those statements better? There's not a single thing that he said that I, if I. Somebody was like, well, he. This is the full sentence. And I'd be like, oh, okay, that's fine. Not a single thing that he said. Not a single thing. And it's, it's more mind boggling to me that there are Christians that are watching this man say all of these things and think, yes, that's what Jesus would do. That's what Jesus would say. That's how Jesus would act. That's how Jesus would talk about other people that he told us to love. There's nothing loving about any of those statements.

[B]

No, there, there definitely isn't. And really quick, by the way, thank you so much for the super chats. We had a few that came in. We got one from BB Gems for $2. Thank you so much. Means the world. And one from Jamie White. I'm a trans woman that is very afraid they're going to use this legislation against us, or worse, lock us in hospitals. Jamie. Absolutely. Thank you for sharing that and thank you for the super chat. It means the world. Look, I this part of what led me to deconstruct my faith so, you know, allegedly, at least that's the language we're going to use, was this exact question. I, I, I'm like, guys, tell me that I'm the crazy one. I mean, look, I pulled up the Sermon on the Mount. Let me just read just a few, Let me just read the first, like 10 verses, okay? And I want to know how someone can hear what Charlie just said in the way he said it, even if they, even if they agree with the premise of some of those statements. Let me just, let me just read what Jesus taught us. He said, blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Blessed are those who mourn, for they will be comforted. Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the earth. Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they will be filled. Blessed are the merciful, for they will be shown mercy. Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God. Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called children of God. Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. And then scrolling down to verse 13. You are the salt of the earth, but the salt loses its saltiness. How can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything except to be thrown out and trampled underfoot. You know, I mean, I'm just reading. This is the first 13 verses of the Sermon on the Mount. I don't know how comforted by this word, right? Like, I don't know how you say, blessed are the persecuted when Charlie was a man who not only made millions of dollars off of this, but also persecuted others. Like, he worked with organizations and people that were making legislation aimed at reducing the rights or access right to the workforce at the expense of their neighbor. Like, I don't under. And this is my, I Mean, I've asked this question to so many white Christians. I've asked it to Charlie's pastor. I've asked it to people at Turning Point. I've asked it to my friends in good faith. Like, guys, help me see what I'm missing. Because when I read the red letters and then I hear the words of Charlie or so many others in this right wing media world, I don't see the teachings of Christ. I don't see the attitude of Christ in them. Lest we forget, Jesus's harshest words were not for the marginalized, not for the ones that society already threw away. It was for the religious leaders. It was for the ones in religious power. That's where his. He calls those people whitewashed tombs. He calls those people sons of Satan. He doesn't call the prostitute in his day or the tax collector, another one who was greatly despised, maybe even for good reason, right? No, that's not where the vitriol is aimed. It's aimed at the people that really Charlie would be hanging out with, the people that. Who run churches where he would go. So that's why I just like you, I share that feeling of the gaslighting because I want to follow Jesus faithfully. And I don't know how you hear Charlie say some of those things, including his dehumanizing language towards the trans community, and go, this guy embodied Jesus. This guy was a good Christian. Actually, maybe now's a good time just to play the one clip of this politician. Oh, yeah, I mean, I just want you guys to hear this. And this is, again, this is real. This is. I'm not making this up. This is. This is. I don't know his full name, Mr. Neals. It says on his name plate. Listen to this. Charlie Kirk was a man of faith first and foremost.

[A]

He loved his.

[B]

He loved his Lord Jesus.

[A]

He loved his family.

[B]

Beautiful wife, beautiful children. Just a remarkable, honorable man that was silenced with this assassin's bullet. I would say if Charlie Kirk lived in the biblical times, he'd have been the 13th disciple.

[A]

He'd have been the 13th disciple.

[B]

Okay, let me just say one thing to this really quick, to this man. First off, most likely, if Charlie was born, he wouldn't be born Jewish. He would be probably born a gentile or a Samaritan. And he'd be one of the people who would have hated the Jews. He one of the people who would think that that weird foreign group shouldn't be welcomed into our society. I mean, look at what he preaches. If Jesus was alive today, he'd be born in modern day Palestine as a Jewish man. Right. As a refugee. And Charlie would be the one saying that the third world was like him are ruining the country, that the people who are under the rubble in modern day Palestine, well, hey, there are no buildings anymore to throw gay people off of. Lol. Right? I mean, that's what I don't get. Like, dude, again, this isn't even deep exegesis of scripture. This is just like common sense. Like just taking his words and applying them to who he applies them to and who Jesus actually was biologically. The math ain't mad thing.

[A]

It's not. And you know, again, those that don't know my story, I didn't grow up the way that Tim did. I grew up in a very progressive, liberal black church and black household. And I wasn't exposed to the conservative evangelical mindset of Christianity until I went to college. But what I've realized is obviously there are two different versions of Jesus. Now. I think that a lot of progressive Christians are focused on the emulation of the doing of Jesus. Like what, how he lived his life, how he helped people, who he showed up for. And I think the reason that they compared Charlie Kirk to Jesus is because he spoke to people and he did, in their mind, sermons on the mounts at different colleges. But I asked somebody, I said, can you tell me about any of Charlie's, like, philanthropic efforts? Anybody that he helped? Any communities that he advocated for? Any charities outside of his own nonprofit that he uplifted? Did he. What, what. What groups were. Was he helping? And they didn't have an answer for me. And I think it's because he believes, and they believe that they are the marginalized group that he was helping.

[B]

Right.

[A]

He was amplifying their voice and their message and the way that you can make yourself a victim in that way and flip the script. I mean, it's honestly kind of impressive.

[B]

It's impressive.

[A]

I. I truly believe that that's what they think. And that's why they are, you know, elevating him into this level of a martyr and comparing him to MLK and, and Jesus and all these other peoples. Yes. Like, because they believe that they were the group that he was advocating for. Because for some reason they have convinced themselves as white conservative evangelical Christians in America that they are persecuted, they are the victims, and he was their guy that was standing up for them, preaching the gospel of Jesus, quote, unquote. That's what they believed. And advocating for a world that centers them despite them not being aware that the world has already centered them since the beginning of time. And we were just trying to get equality for everybody. That's all we were trying to do. And he was not preaching the gospel of Jesus.

[B]

No, you're. Look, I, I think you're totally right, actually. I have. This is. Let me see if I can pull this up real quick.

[A]

All right?

[B]

Remember, friends, I'm doing a lot of things at one time, but, you know, look, I mean, this is, this is a real, A real picture shared at a church. It's Abraham Lincoln, jfk, Martin Luther, Charlie Kirk, and very white Jesus. And it says because of words underneath, and it's like, wow. Like you, you think that, that, that they're all equivalent. You know, I, it's, it's, it's, it's shocking to me. Look, maybe I can shed some light here, right? Because as someone who grew up in this world, and you're going to laugh when I tell you this. When I told Reverend Otis Mastis the first time, he couldn't believe it. He was like, you're kidding. I'm like, no, I'm not kidding. I really was taught or given the impression that Martin Luther King Jr. Solved racism in the 60s. Like, hey, he came along and he preached this gospel of, you know, of, of, of integration. And the white church saw, you know, the scales fell from their eyes. And now we're a good society and systemic racism doesn't exist. And I mean, there are some instances here and there of hatred, but that, that happens for anyone, even me, right? People, like, people hate me as a Christian. Right. They would do that kind of false equivalence. And I was taught that. I was just taught that from the beginning. And so when you have that mindset and you're also being fed a steady diet of political rad, the left hates you. They're anti God, they're anti Bible, they're anti Christian values. You're under attack. Even though the data says the opposite. Right. Even though the reality is that the white evangelical church is the most privileged church arguably to ever exist in human history. We have our own worship industry, our own book industry, movie industry. I mean, pastors, some pastors make a lot of money in this space. There are, There are hundreds of thousands of white evangelical churches. There are white evangelicals in office, in government, like, we own so much. And yet, because we're taught that we're under attack, we really think that we are the most persecuted people in America. And that if a black person complains about their inability to get access to a quality job because of Racism. They're just complaining and need to try harder. And it sounds crazy to say now, knowing what I know, but back then it made complete sense because evangelicalism is inherently ahistorical. They don't tell you about how Bob Jones was a raging segregationist. They don't tell you how most white evangelicals and Protestants were the strongest opponents of integration. Right. They don't tell you that, that, that, that, that, that. The great hero of the Moral Majority, Jerry Falwell, got radicalized not over abortion, but over school integration. He preached a sermon where he said that if the, if the Supreme Court knew the will of God, Brown v. Board of Education would have never been decided the way it was decided. And he was one of the people behind the private school explosion, which was really code for white only schools. I didn't know any of that. So that's all erased. Black people are just lazy. And I'm a true Christian in a hostile world. And it's believable. It's crazy.

[A]

Yeah. Hey everyone. Melinda Hale here, executive director of the New Evangelicals. Thanks for listening to our podcast. I just wanted to take a minute to personally invite you to be a part of our community. At tne, we're creating space for people of faith who care about justice, compassion, and living out the teachings of Jesus in real tangible ways. As a nonprofit organization, not only do we offer thought provoking podcasts, but on our new app and online platform, TNE Connect, we offer free educational resources, additional content and a space to connect with like minded people for meaningful conversations and encouragement. So if what we're doing has been helpful to you, if you've learned something, felt, seen or been challenged to grow, head over to thenewevangelicals.com to join TNE Connect or make a donation. Your support means the world to us. Thanks for being a part of the movement.

[B]

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[E]

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Join Vanguard for a moment of meditation. Take a deep breath. Picture yourself reaching your financial goals. Feel that freedom. Visit vanguard.com investinginu to learn more. All investing is subject to risk.

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Well, I was down on my last dollar. Then I started saving because the bank Said fiscal restraint is what you're craving. So I put my earnings in a high yield account Let the savings compound and the interest mount. I'm optimizing cash flow, putting debt in church now time is my friend and not a pain in the neck and we've got a little cash to rebuild the old deck. Boring money moves make kind of lame songs but they sound pretty sweet to your wallet. PNC bank brilliantly boring since 1865.

[A]

This is. This will come across as a very, very strong and could be slightly hyperbolic statement, but I actually do believe that it's true. I fully believe everything in this country comes back to anti blackness. I really do. And the reason I think that is because the basis of this country was built on slavery. And I think that the reason there is so much animosity still with white evangelical Christians and then black people is because we remind them of what their greatest sin is and instead of actually taking accountability for it. And this is, I want to be very clear also, black people have never tried to get revenge. We never asked for anything other than an apology, acknowledgement, and a little bit of money to help us get ahead. That's all we've ever asked for.

[B]

Right?

[A]

And after that, we good. Like, you're cool with us, we're cool with you. Right? But unfortunately, they haven't been able to bring themselves to even say, this was wrong, this should have never happened, and we should try to make it right from a human standpoint and then from a Christian standpoint, there's just. There's never been those attempts to right the wrong. It's been, let's erase it, let's pretend it didn't happen, move on. They act like it was a thousand years ago. They literally act like slavery happened when Jesus was here. Like that's how they're acting, right? Slavery. We are not that far removed from slavery. I just told a story about my father. My father was born in 1944 in Mississippi. He grew up on a plantation. He was the son of a sharecropper. And. And he who was a son of an enslaved man. I'm not that far removed from that. That's my lineage. That's how close it is. And they were going to act like it was that long ago. And all black people have ever asked, you gave reparations to the slave owners and you didn't give it to the black people because you didn't want them to get ahead.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You didn't want, you didn't want equality. You don't believe in equality. You don't believe in equity, but you want to act like you do. And so if you can't get to the point, I just don't know how they can't get to the point. Again, I've said this before of just being able to admit the wrongdoing so that we can move forward.

[B]

Right?

[A]

Because that's all that we've ever asked. That's all that we've ever asked.

[B]

And that's like repentance is like Christianity 101. Like, it's not a hard sell. Be like, hey, if you messed up, if people in your lineage messed up, maybe own it and say, I want to do better. Like, it's, it's not very complicated to me, you know, it really isn't. And it is, again, it's pretty mind boggling to watch this apparatus do everything it can to downplay the very real realities of American history. I mean, look, Doug Wilson is now super tied into this Christian nationalist regime. That's someone. If I read you the full quote, Melinda, you probably fall off your chair. A man who literally said that racial animosity was not, was, was not the main motivation for slavery and that in many places it was quite harmonious. I mean, I'm not kidding you. I can read you the full quote if you want. It's wild that Doug Wilson said this. It's horrible. Right? Pete Hegseth is rebuilding Confederate monuments with our tax dollars right now. Right. Obviously these are people who do not think that what happened in American history when it comes to the race based child slavery, segregation, lynchings, Jim Crow was that bad. And it's like that should really concern us if they're doing this in the name of God. Because again, what God do we worship? It's funny, in the beginning of this work I used to try and argue with conservatives like, no, no, guys, I worship the same Christ that you do. It's not about a different religion. Because Elisa Childress wrote a book where she makes the claim that us progressive Christians worship a different God. But I will say now, doing this work, four years, five years later, I think I agree with the premise. We absolutely do worship a different Jesus. We absolutely do. Like, we just, we follow two different streams in Christian thought that worship two very different iterations or versions of Jesus, period. Because I don't know how folks can rationalize what they rationalize in the name of Jesus and claim to be a Christ follower. It blows my mind. Absolutely does.

[A]

It blows my mind too. Is my feed good? Because I feel like my Internet's being A little weird.

[B]

No. Yeah, you're pretty blurry.

[A]

I am blurry. Okay.

[B]

You're kind of coming in and out. It's all right. It's all right.

[A]

We've been having so many issues with Spectrum and they keep raising the price, but they're not fixing the Internet.

[B]

That's so nice. That's so nice, friends. Speaking of which, welcome into the stream live with Melinda Hale. She's the executive director of the New Evangelicals. She's filling in because April Ojoy is out with her partner at a film festival. Please make sure to give this stream a like. It really helps get it out to the YouTube algorithms. If you want to support an organization that is doing really important work to not only resist Christian nationalism, but to empower people with free educational resources, community spaces, even some activism in the future podcasts, including this show, please consider donating to the New Evangelicals or giving us a super chat. All super chats, all donations go directly to the organization to make this work possible. And friends, as we're seeing, we have a lot of work ahead of us. And I think that brings us to the second part of this point with Charlie Kirk's legacy is the right wing media and their response to all of this. And I want to pull this up, Melinda, because it has been just really telling to see. So look, the shooting happened and was it Wednesday? I believe. It was a little over a week ago, I believe. And without any details. We didn't even know the gender of the person who did this. Like we knew absolutely nothing. Within minutes. Minutes without knowing anything. Right wing Twitter lit up like a Christmas tree. Do I have that slide here? Did I program it? Maybe I didn't. I have it saved here. I'll pull up the old fashioned way. And it. It really. I think it's just worth highlighting.

[A]

It is image their immediate response.

[B]

Yes, the immediate response. So I have it. It's kind of hard to read Friends. So I. I'm going to read some of these out loud. These are real tweets. And by the way, I want to be clear about something. This is not from Rando Small no name Twitter accounts because anyone can pull a Twitter account and. And that could be a bot account. It could have 100 followers. Maybe they say. They say something terrible. I don't do that. Okay. I'm not harvesting counts terrible things to then to then paint a broad brush of the right. Okay. These are from Lives of TikTok Ron Filipowski. I mean these are major names. Elon Musk. So within minutes of this happening lives a TikTok. This is war. Elon Musk the left is the party of murder. Joey Mannarino the Democrat Party must be classified as a domestic terror organization and their member leaders treated accordingly. Enough is enough. Brian Eastwood Charlie Kirk getting shot is the shot heard round the country. I'm ready for civil war. You want to fight, you're going to get it. Oldfield Rando I don't want the National Guard sent to Democrat Democratic cities anymore. I want the Air Force sent. Patrick Casey. It's time to bring the hammer down on the left. I mean another one. Charlie Kirk has been shot. Enough is enough. Democrats need to be held to be labeled a terrorist organization. Laura Loomer. It's time for the Trump administration to shut down, defund and prosecute every single leftist organization. If Charlie, Charlie Kirk dies from his injuries, his life cannot be in vain. We must shut these lunatic leftists down once and for all. The left is a national security threat. These are real things from major influencers. Okay, now I want to compare something. Speaking of Laura Loomer, this is what Laura Loomer said when, when, when Joe Biden got his, his, his diagnosis. Yeah, his diagnosis. You know what? These are all mislabeled. That's the problem. Problem. That's why I'm, I'm behind here. This is, by the way, friends, what I'm going to read to you. I fact checked. I went to Laura Loomer's Twitter account and I found this Tweet. It has 36,000 likes as of this recording. Laura Loomer said the following. I am happy to see Joe Biden suffering. It makes me happy to know he's going to have a terrible time in his final days in office. I'm happy his wife gets to watch him rot away like the trash pile he is and always has been.

[A]

Been.

[B]

Today was very satisfying for me. Don't ever forget what Joe Biden and his enablers took away from all of us. Biden doesn't deserve any sympathy. He's a twisted, sick old man and that's how he will be remembered when he's gone. That's a real tweet. That is real. I can, can. You cannot get any lower than that. This is right when Joe Biden's cancer diagnosis was, was, was announced. And all of a sudden the same people who refuse to give any kind of empathy to their political opponents are now demanding not just empathy, but that people speak out in sympathy as a group of people that Charlie Kirk and the right target frequently and also Give.

[A]

Money to their family.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

That's the other thing. The text started within, what, two days after. After his. After he was killed.

[B]

This is real.

[A]

And this is my thing. This is my thing. Laura Loomer is a horrible human being. And that's just. There's no other way for me to put it. My problem that I have is that if you are on the side of someone like that, why are you not calling that out? I have no problem calling out the left when they do stuff. I wrote a whole about it in Courier News. We should be able to. We should be able to call people out and call people out on our side. We shouldn't have that kind of allegiance. It's about accountability. It's about being the best person that you can be. It's about showing up in the world with kindness.

[B]

Right?

[A]

And nobody on the right calls out anybody on the right. That's just. That's what I'm seeing, and I don't understand it. If you don't want to be labeled that, then call it out. If you don't want to be labeled a bad person, a racist, or whatever the case may be, then why aren't you calling out the bad stuff?

[B]

Look, I want to show you all something, and this is what I cannot wrap my head around. I go to these events, okay, Because I don't want to misrepresent the people I critique. I want to be as factual as possible. I go to Turning Point USA's America Fest every single year. I have sat in the rooms. I've heard this stuff. Here's a small clip, and you can find this video at the New Evangelicals YouTube channel. This is a small clip from my recap at America Fest. Listen to what is said from the stages. This is Steve Bannon. Listen to this. The same Steve Bannon that last year said that Nikki Haley was, quote, as ambitious as Lucifer. Steve was definitely back on the main stage this year, and he brought that same energy. You. We're gonna go win. So Steve Bannon just yelled you to about 14, 000 patriots who apparently all love God and are fighting for Christian values. But, I mean, this is what's said at these places. You're not going to hear empathy. You're not gonna hear. You're not gonna hear good faith. You hear that kind of stuff. And what blows my mind is that there are people who really believe that the left, by the way, whoever the left is, it's so ambiguous. You never know. Is it Joe Biden? Is it Hasan Piker? Is it Some rando on TikTok. Who exactly is the left? I don't know. But somehow people are convinced that the left is hateful and the right is the party of, of free speech and of love and of, you know, all this stuff. And it's just. I'm sorry, it's factually not true. Like, it's factually. And you know how I know this? Here's how I know this. Zorin Mamdani, who's a Muslim man who's running for mayor of New York City. Okay. Charlie Kirk has launched so many Islamophobic statements at him directly. And when he was assassinated, Zoran said, I'm. Political violence has no place in America. And that he was sorry for what happened to Charlie. You would never see that if the opposite was true. If, if Zora Mundami was assassinated. You would never see Charlie Kirk say that. You wouldn't. And you know how we know? Because we saw what they said with George Floyd. We saw how they said nothing about Melissa Hortman. Donald Trump wouldn't even call Governor Waltz. When Representative Melissa Hortman was assassinated in her home by a gunman who held deep Christian nationalist views, he went to Christ at the nation's Institute of Religious National. A Christian nationalist. Like, like, like think tank. Okay. Where on the admissions office it says every Christian should pray. One violent prayer a day. Something to that effect. It's, it's an actual picture. Yes. I have to grab it so I can make the real quote. But that's that, that's, that's the general thought that that man had a hit list of 70 other names. Many more Democrats and left wing organizations like Planned Parenthood. Trump wouldn't even call, call Governor Waltz to send condolences. No flags were lowered at half, at half staff, no kind of memorial service. There was no oval office address. J.D. vance didn't host a podcast from his office, you know, remembering this. No. None of that happens. Right. But all of a sudden, now that this terrible thing happened to Charlie, and again, it was terrible, suddenly they demand your empathy, they demand your loyalty. Suddenly it's the left's fault. Even though we don't know that everybody. In fact, the evidence that we have right now points to someone who was probably deep in the Internet meme culture, maybe even black pilled, which kind of supersedes the right left paradigm. And it is just unbelievable to witness in real time.

[A]

Yeah, they just want to have somebody to blame because again, accountability, they are allergic to it. It's not something that they're ever going to admit to. Even when people have come forth with manifestos that directly link to right wing extremism, they have ignored it. The buffalo shooter 100% and Dylann Roof, I mean there's so many. And they ignore it. They don't condemn it, they don't call it out. But even going back to Trump, not calling about Melissa Horman, he also didn't call Governor Josh Shapiro when the governor's mansion was burned. It's anything that happens to Democrat he doesn't care about. But also these people don't even say anything when kids are killed. Okay? They don't say anything about kids that have been killed in Gaza. They don't say anything about kids that are shot in their schools. Like, they don't say anything. And so I just, I'm not surprised. And it's like, it's crazy to me. Even the kids that were killed in a Christian school, they don't say anything. What did they focus on? That the shooter was trans? That's all that they cared about. They didn't care about the fact that these kids lost their lives. And it has happened so many times before from right wing extremist people. That's not what matters to them. It matters them being able to pin it on somebody that they deem as an issue that they do not like. I. Disgusting to me.

[B]

I saw the video of Charlie. I regret seeing it. Someone sent it to me. I didn't know what I was in for. It was deeply traumatic. I mean it's, it's, it's very, it's very gory. There's no other way to say it. And as I saw and I, I literally gasped like, oh my God. I then thought about all the kids who had those kinds of bullet wounds trying just to learn in school and the politicians who have seen the bullet wounds of these children and who still refuse to do anything about it when it comes to gun legislation. And that's the fundamental difference as a. Look, if people are going to label me a progressive, I'll wear the badge for now as a progressive. I don't want my neighbors being shot or executed at college campuses or kids slaughtered in schools. I want gun safety. I don't think our society should have access to high powered rifles. There's absolutely no reason for it to happen. I want gun safety. Safety. Why would I endorse or be behind someone's assassination? It goes against my values as a human. Because I don't want to live in a society where any of my neighbors, including my MAGA neighbors, right are getting executed and their videos spread around Twitter like it's some kind of, you know, cool music video. I don't want that society. But for some reason, the gop, the party of the nra, has been so deeply bought off by these lobbyists that even as they look at the bullet wounds of children, which by the way, way, there are no kid sized bullet wounds. Okay. Period. Okay, so take what happened to Charlie. If you were unfortunate enough to see that video, put it in the body of a five year old and then think about that for a second. Okay? There are no kid sized bullet holes. And think about the politicians who have seen that and go. We just see more thoughts and prayers. It's a mental health issue. Even if it is, they're the same party who defunded access to mental health. The big. The big beautiful bill. Guts mental. The big beautiful bill bill takes health care away from millions of people. Yeah, like miss me. You have to miss me with this because again, I. This is data. I'm not giving you hyperbole. I'm not giving you my opinion. We can measure this. I can show you the votes where the GOP had the opportunity to pass mental health reforms and they said no. I can show you where they.

[A]

Schools.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

In mental health services. In schools.

[B]

Thank you. Yes.

[A]

And they just don't care. They don't care.

[B]

It's wild that we are here year. It's wild. Okay, I gotta pause. We have so many super chats that came in. I want to thank everyone who did this. Let's go through the list real quick. We have one from Steven Stevie Clown, $2. Thank you so much Stevie. The MAGA think Jesus is weak. Hate the Beatitudes. Yes, that absolutely seems to be that way. We have player drew super chat, $5. Is that Charlie Kirk clip compilation shareable? I want to save it. I don't think it will help my MAGA family, but it will remind me that I'm not crazy. Yeah, it's on. It's on Instagram. It's floating around on the socials for sure. So you definitely find it. Deanna much. I ordered a few extra copies of Star Spangled Jesus to put in the little library in our deeply read community. Let's keep fighting this fight. First off, Deanna, thank you for the super chat and that's awesome. That's April a Joy's book. You can get it wherever books are sold. And then Joseph Compton. Wow. $10. Thank you so much, Joseph. I was. I was in a Bible study last Friday where the leader of the study stated that he did not see anything wrong with what Charlie Kirk said. This stands as Christian leadership today. Absolutely. And then we had two that came in from Destiny, the grunge girl. And it says, as a black woman, I can't thank you enough, Tim. Absolutely. Trying to do the work that we can out here together. I want to play this video of J.D. vance. He hosted, and this is a whole different conversation that might be for a different, a different talk, but he hosted the Charlie Kirk show from his official office in the White House or wherever the office of the Vice President is. Really quick. I just want to say I find that deeply inappropriate. I can't think of anyone on the Democratic side, especially a sitting president, that would ever host a podcast of. I think the equivalent I could think of is like a Hasan Piker. Could you imagine if Hasan Piker was assassinated and Joe Biden hosted his show? It'd be unfathomable. And by the way, I would stand against it. The government should not be involved in media this way. But regardless, JD Vance hosted the show. This is a two minute clip with him and Stephen Miller. I'll play it in its entirety and then we'll get your reaction to it.

[E]

Vance. Joining me now is Stephen Miller, White House Deputy Chief of Staff, dear friend of mine and dear friend of Charlie Kirks. And before I get into the nitty gritty of what I wanted to talk with Stephen about, you know, there's a lot of questions about the investigation, where we are in the investigation. I want to be respectful to the FBI's process, but just know that we are on top of this and the entire administration is trying to do as much as possible to find everything that we can about what led to this, about how we got here, and of course, ultimately how an assassin took Charlie's life. I wanted to zoom out with Stephen a little bit and talk about all of the ways that we're trying to figure out how to prevent this festering violence that you see on the far left from becoming even more and more mainstream. A lot of people, people are very worried about how we got here in the first place. And you have the crazies on the far left who are saying, oh, Stephen Miller and J.D. vance, they're going to go after constitutionally protected speech. No, no, we're going to go after the NGO network that foments, facilitates and engages in violence. That's not okay. Violence is not okay in our system. And we want to make it less likely that that happens. Walk me through at a high level like what you and I have been working on, what the whole administration has been working on to try to make sure that we don't reward and promote this craziness.

[B]

Okay, wait. I'm pausing. I'm breaking my own rule. I gotta say something. I have two things to say. First off, that didn't age well about the free speech at all, because the. Well, you can explain it better than I can, Melinda. I'll let you do that. But I just want to make one point here. Don't forget, friends, this is the same administration that blanketly pardoned every single January 6th insurrectionist. The part that they.

[A]

People. Every single one. Not even just every single one.

[B]

Some. Which, by the way, reoffended, including child sex abuse, by the way. You can look into that. But every single person who stormed the Capitol and committed violence. Some beat up cops. Some people were looking for Nancy Pelosi. Some people brought a noose. Some people praised Jesus Christ and invoked his name as a way of saying thank you for this opportunity. Every single person who did that, that was pardoned by this administration. And J.D. vance, this ghoul of a man, I hope he hears me say that, says with a straight face that violence has no place here. No. No, what you're saying. No, no, no. See, for Empire, the people who run Empire, violence is always an option. There's just no resistance that could ever happen. And again, this premise is flawed because we don't know the shooter's motives. And we completely reject, as of right now, this idea that this was some kind of far left plan or that. That the far left was responsible for this. But let's just say, say they were. Let's say this guy was like, you know what? I love Hassan Piker. His words directly influenced my decision to kill Charlie. Okay. Even if that was true, JD Ban still is okay with violence. He just wouldn't like it. He doesn't like it whenever it's on his party's side. And that's a very big distinction here because we have the receipts. And by the way, Melinda and I would still condemn it. We condemn January 6th. We condemn the shooter. It's not even a question. Like, it's so. It's so basic for us. It's like 101. I'm yelling, I'm ranting, I'm yelling.

[A]

You're fine.

[B]

Sorry. Angry white man over here. Don't mind me. Do you want to just explain the. The Jimmy Kimmel thing briefly?

[A]

Sure. So a lot of people are saying that this isn't a First Amendment violation with Firing Jimmy Kimmel, and it completely is. How it works is basically abc. Nextstar is an affiliate that runs abc, like shows and networks, and they need FCC licenses in order to run. So they. And they're getting ready to do a big merger with another company, which. It always comes down to money and capitalism, doesn't it? And basically they were like, we're not going to give you the license if you don't get rid of Jimmy Kimmel, basically. I mean, that's what it came down to. So that's completely.

[B]

A government literally punish someone for their speech by punishing their affiliate company. I mean, I don't know how much more blatant that can get. Right. That's it.

[A]

It's. That's just what it is. Yeah. You can't get around that.

[B]

Yeah. Right. All right, back to Stephen Miller.

[A]

The organized doxing campaigns, the organized riots, the organized street violence, the organized campaign, dehumanization, vilification, posting people's addresses, combining that with messaging that's designed to trigger incite violence and the actual organized cells that carry out and facilitate the violence. It is a vast domestic terror movement.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

Is my.

[B]

I thought he was talking about, you know, the websites trying to dox people who spoke out against. Against Charlie Kirk in negative ways. I thought that's what he was talking about. Like, he is aware of that, right? He is aware that his own administration is going after people who. Who, in their opinion, celebrated Charlie's death and trying to punish them, and that.

[A]

There are websites that are doxing people. They're making us crazy.

[B]

Oh, I. I have not seen the full clip. I'm blown away. He says to the straight face, this.

[A]

I'm not surprised by this at all. Yes, we are going to use every resource we have at the Department of Justice, Homeland Security, and throughout this government to identify, disrupt, dismantle, and destroy these networks and make America safe again for the American people. It will happen, and we will do it in Charlie's name.

[B]

Dude, the level of propaganda, it's wild. Can I say something that might get me in trouble, but I got to say it.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I have to. This. This is like the Reichstag fire in Nazi Germany. It kind of has that vibe to it. So for those who don't know, it's a moment in. In German history where, like, one of the Nazi headquarters got firebombed essentially, and the Nazis immediately blamed the Communist Party for it. And they use it as a justification to actually kill people and like, and completely erase the Communist Party in politics. Now it's still not 100% known, but there is good evidence that some suggest that the Nazis actually lit their own building on fire. Certainly I'm not saying that what happened to Charlie was an inside job, don't misunderstand that part of it. But the fact, it's more about the, the premise or the, the attitude that, you know, well, this will be our excuse to then grab more power than to, you know, demonize our enemies. Because again, be clear here, they don't want a two party system in America. This, this faction of MAGA wants a one party system, which is why they're calling for Democrats to be tried, for the whole party to be erased. I mean, Jesse Waters did a whole diatribe on this on Fox News. William Wolf called for the erasure of the Democratic Party. It's not about nonviolence or about safety or about trying to promote human flourishing. It's about power and control. That's exactly what is happening here.

[A]

That's all that it's ever been about, is power and control. And I'm really, this sounds terrible to say, but their messaging and their use of language is really an expert level because people have fallen for it. People don't see what's right in front of them and it's making everybody question reality, to be honest. And Stephen Miller is actually the scariest person to me. He terrifies me.

[B]

I agree.

[D]

Hi, my name is Katie and I gladly support ti. My story of Christian fundamentalism is I got involved to create order out of what was kind of a chaotic life. And I chose classical education for my children. I taught at a small classical school school during COVID And what that took from me was my joy and my delight. It led me to believe that I wasn't good the way that God made me. I was told that my cares, my passions and my desires were not helpful at that school. And really they just were misguided. I have so much grace for them. But I left really disillusioned by who Jesus is. And then I found tne and just the humor, the insight, the intelligence that tne brings to people, exploring outside the basement of Christian fundamentalism is such a gift. And I hope that you will enjoy and support tne too.

[B]

By the way, just for more data, again, we like being data heavy here. You know, at the New Evangelicals, Melinda and I have done a lot of work over the past to really kind of get our lay of the land when it comes to funding and it comes to like who has a lot of the money. And there again, you Heard this narrative from C.P. miller that, that these left wing NGOs are just huge and they're just destroying America. Well, look, I mean if you can see this slide, we actually have the graphs when it comes to media presence of like how much money some of these organ organizations are doing. The Daily Wire does $210 million, PragerU $68 million, Turning Point USA $80 million. And last year over here at TNE we did a whopping $480,000. You know, now you might think, well, what about, you know, the young turks or other groups, they still all pale in comparison. I promise I've done all the research. There is no organized left wing media presence that is funding or pulling in money the way that TPUSA, PragerU, the Daily Wire is. Which is why we always say if you want to support us, please consider either a, giving us a super chat or donating to, to donating to our organization because we need the money to be able to do this work at the level that it needs to be done at Hard Stop. You know, but, and our work goes.

[A]

Beyond media and it goes beyond media. I mean we have an entire platform where we offer educational resources and, and classes and courses and community spaces. I mean we are really trying to do the best that we can with the little that we have. But we are so, so grateful to the people that, that do donate and are part of this community. But in general, left leaning organizations do not get the funding that right wing conservative organizations do. They get billions of dollars. And it's very disheartening. But I, you know, hate and fear spread fast and I always say love and justice takes longer, but they last longer too. And that's what we're trying to do. So any support you are able to give us, we are very, very grateful because we are up against, against a monster.

[B]

Honestly, I wish we had better words. I mean, I, I don't want to talk like that. I know you don't like talking like that. I don't like making enemies. I, that's why I go to these events. I shake their hands. I, I, I, I want to learn, I want to be here in good faith. But guys, I don't know how else to say this. We're not dealing with good faith actors. This was my critique of Gavin Newsom when he had Charlie Kirk on his show. I'm like, guys, you're playing footsies with fascism and they don't want to play footsies. They want to destroy you. They want to destroy you. And that's what we're dealing with here. And I, I think it will get, unfortunately, I think the days will get darker. I think we have a. There's always hope, obviously, but we have to be willing to acknowledge the truth of the, in the reality of the moment that we're living in. The Trump administration now says that they're targeting left wing organizations, whatever that means. I mean, it's very clear what is happening here. The motive of the shooter doesn't matter because in Christian nationalism, truth is always subservient to power. So the reason why this world was able to jump on the Civil War bandwagon without any facts is because it's always about the story first and then squeezing in bits of information that might be true later on. Right. And that's a very different way than how you and I operate, how our organization operates. And we want to be as, as, as factual as possible and we want to tell the truth as much as possible in ways that are ethical and without dehumanizing our enemies, which unfortunately is not the same way that our political opponents see the world, which is very discouraged.

[A]

Correct?

[B]

Correct. Yeah. So, you know, friends. Oh, I think one more thing we wanted to point out here. You know, there's this narrative going around again that left wing is so violent ridden, but the data actually, again, data matters. Studies including our own Department of Justice, by the way, have shown that really most of the political violence comes from the right. 391 instances of violence have happened, happened in the right, compared to 65 on the left. I think they call it extreme radical Islam or something. 143 examples of that. I mean, it's right wing France. I'm not sure what to tell you. Like in, in our two party system, it's the right wing that is historically more violent, that does more things that are violent. The Department of Justice had that report out and then yesterday or the day before, our truth telling government, you know, the same government that, that says there are no Epstein files, erased it. They just took down the web, they took down the study. You can't find it, you can't find it. And that's all by design. That's how you control narratives.

[A]

So they're rewriting history in every way, shape and form. And we should be worried about that. I mean, also people don't know how the Internet works. That's the other thing that I always want to ask when they're deleting things, because they've deleted vaccination studies, they deleted education, they've deleted history of this country from national parks, websites, they've deleted women, history. I mean, it's crazy, but do they not know how the Internet works? Like there are screenshots, there are books. People will be able to refute all of the things that they're trying to rewrite. And I just, again, I always go back to, if you would just admit what the history was, we can move forward. No one's trying to act like we hate America. This is the worst country in the world. We have to learn from our mistakes. And that's all that, at least I have been asking of this country as a progressive, as a liberal, as a Christian, is right the wrongs. But you have to acknowledge it first. But there's no acknowledgement, there's no accountability. They just want to ignore it, act like none of this ever happened and change the narrative. And it's terrifying because now they're going to be going into the schools and teaching children a completely different history of America to control the narrative. And it's, it's shameful. It's really shameful.

[B]

It's baptized in white Christianity. This Sunday, Tyler Kirk's memorial is taking place. It's going to be huge. Trump is speaking and Brandon Lake, Phil Wickham, Chris Tomlin, Kerry Jobe, Cody Carnes. They're leading worship at it, they're leading worship at this event. And you know, the irony isn't lost on me that they're going to be leading people in worship to a brown skinned immigrant who was Jewish and a refugee and who lived in modern day Palestine in honor of a man who denigrated those kinds of people. It's just like, I don't know how the, the, the, the level of the theological bankruptness that I see is like, it's just, it's, it's shocking. It's again, surprise. Shocking, but not surprising. Right? That's kind of how I see it. So anyway, yeah, I just want to.

[A]

Make one point because this is. I had this conversation with a friend about Charlie, who, who followed Charlie for quite a bit because of his advocacy for free speech. And one thing I will say is specifically with these people and Charlie Kirk's legacy is they were morally congruent people, but they weren't morally clear people. And I say they're morally congruent because what they did and how they live lines up with what they believe in. I think they just need to reconcile that their beliefs are not as morally clear as Jesus's work. And I don't think they're ever going to be able to realize that like you are living according to what you believe, but what you believe is not what Jesus stood for.

[B]

Yeah, that's well said. We do want to get to one more story, friends, before we get to our, our, our weird Christian bleep segment. And this is, you know, this is another heavy one. I mean it's a really heavy one. And I think it also shows again just how there really are, as ML MLK said, two different Americas that, that we're like living in. So yeah, just trigger warning. This is a very intense story. It involves death and, and hanging. It's just terrible. So here's the story. I'm going to read it. The headline line, Trey Reed's family calls for independent autopsy after he was found hanging in a tree. This happened earlier this week. Trey Reed is a black man. He went to Delta State University in Mississippi and he was found hanging from a tree. And police were really quick to say, oh, no foul play, no foul play. It's, it's. Nothing happened here that was bad. It just, you know, or that that was criminal. And a lot of people, especially people who understand American history or who have experienced the weight of the white supremacist American empire are like, hold on a minute, this, that math ain't mathing, that there is no foul play involved. Yeah. So I mean that's a really key story that we're following. And this comes only a few days after the assassination of Charlie KIRK when many HBCUs, historically back black college universities were receiving death threats right away again, we now know that the shooter was white, a white young male. Right. But somehow the anger was, was aimed at, you know, people who go to black colleges, which I think is also, if I, if I could just say to my white progressive or leftist friends who are happy about Charlie's death, I think that you forget that like you said, it's always the black community, it's always marginalized communities that feel the full weight of the white left. Right. It's not the white leftist who feels the full weight of it. It's going to be the HBCUs. It's going to be our trans neighbors. And that's another reason why this whole situation is so terrible. The second I saw the shooting happen, I went, oh my God, this is so bad. This is so bad because of the stuff like this.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

So just keep that in mind, you know.

[A]

Yeah, it's the aftermath for sure. And I, the thing with the HBCUs really bothered me because first of all, this happened in Utah. Why are you coming after black people? We Are not there there. We're not talking about Charlie Kirk. We're not thinking about Charlie Kirk. That's not part of our daily thing. So leave people at HBCUs alone. HBCUs were created to be a safe haven for black people because y' all kept us out of educational systems. So we had to create our own systems. That's the only reason that HBCUs exists. And guess what? We let everybody go there. Everybody's allowed to go there because we're very welcoming. You cool with us? We're cool with you. So why are you coming to threaten us with bombs when we had nothing to do anymore? This, it makes me so upset. But then going back to Trey Reid, what I want people to understand is that Mississippi is one of the most underdeveloped states in this country. They still operate as if it is 1950s. There are Lynch. I still have family in Mississippi. My dad called them to see if they knew anything about what happened because he was heartbroken when he found out. Again. My dad grew up in Mississippi. In 1944, he saw someone be lynched outside of his high school. My dad has had a gun held to his head because he drank out of the wrong water fountain. Okay? They always said it was a suicide, even back then. And he said, when he talked to his family, he said that there are plenty of lynchings that happen in Mississippi even today that never even make the news. So they were surprised that Trey made the news, but it's because it happened on a college campus. And my heart sunk when he told me that, that this is just normal for them.

[B]

Them.

[A]

This is just normal. They're still lynching people in the south, and they have the audacity to say that it is a suicide. And there was another man. He was a white man named Corey Zucchaitis who was also found hanging from the tree. He was homeless. That just goes to show you how they treat people that they view less than those are marginalized communities. The unhoused and the black community both found hanging from a tree. And they're going to say no foul play because they don't care. And you don't see a single Christian posting about either of those stories.

[B]

Right? You don't. I've, I've looked, you know, all the white Christians that were. Charlie her was a hero of the Christian faith. Not a peep. I, I, you know, I don't know how to say this, but, like, I, I really was under the impression for so long that, like, we were so much farther along than we actually Are like, it's so evident. Like, how so it's the same cycles, man. I mean, these white bubbles give people such a different reality, or at least the illusion of one than. Than how. Especially in America, the black community experiences America. And it's just like, it's really. It's just amazing how ahistorical I was brought up. Like, I just had. I mean, I didn't even know about. About the Tulsa race massacre until I started this work, until friends like Jamar Tisby woke me up to, like, the reality of. Of some of the horrific acts of violence towards my black neighbors. And here we have another example of, you know, Trey Reid. And people are rushing up. Look, the police. The police, yeah. It's funny I told you this offline, but I had a few friends of mine, good faith friends, by the way, who want to learn, who are more white and progressive. They're like, I don't get it, Tim. Like, why are you talking about this? Why are you making comments about it maybe not being, you know, a suicide? I'm like. And I share with them, to me, Spencer Helm's article that she wrote on her substack. I go, this is why, like, listen to these voices, because they'll tell you, you that there's a reason why they don't trust the cops, because there's a legacy of the police doing this when real lynchings happened. So, of course alarm bells go off. Right. And like you told me before, Melinda, black men don't hang themselves off of trees. That's not how it works. Like, that's not a thing. You know, so, like, the math ain't mathing, essentially, is what we're trying to say here. Yeah.

[A]

Also, the story doesn't make sense. They first told the family he died in his dorm room. Apparently he had broken arms and broken legs. I think that that was officially confirmed. How, how, how was he. How was that a suicide? And why are you changing the story?

[B]

Right.

[A]

It's just that they don't view black bodies worthy of a true investigation to find out what happened. And in that era, they're still living in a Jim Crow era. So they're like, it's just another black boy.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And they're going to move on from it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And that's heartbreaking.

[B]

Absolutely. Well, we'll definitely make sure that we continue, you know, keeping tabs on the story. We talked about this on new evangelicals socials and of course on our personals. And we'll keep. Keep it. You know, I'm, I'm following I'm following very closely how this is going to play out. But, yeah, I mean, we have work to do, friends. And maybe I can give a, a gentle but firm nudge to my white deconstructing progressive friends. Look, I'll be honest with you, and I'm, I'm saying this as someone who is still very early on in his own journey of relearning and learning new ways of being. But I, I mean it when I say it. You're not going to find a better path forward in, like, white progressive spaces. You got to think about decolonization. You just do. You just do. You have to think about, about listening to voices that have a very different experience in empire and letting them shape how you understand and see the world. I, you know, I was, when I first started this work, I remember becoming aware of my own white privilege for the first time, and I felt really guilty over it. I was like, what do I do? Like, I, I can't control how I was born or the body that I'm in or the time I was born in. I, I just feel so guilty. I was talking to Janice Lagata, a mutual good friend of ours. She's such a gem and, you know, she's a black woman. And I'm telling her this, I'm like, look, Janice, I'm wrestling with this. I'm not sure what to do. And she goes, just use your privilege for good, white boy. And I was like, I can do that. I can try and do that. And so that's my encouragement, you know, Like, I, I, I think a lot of us feel like, well, what do we do, like, if we're white? You know, you, you do the work. Like, you do the work. You read the books, you read the new Jim Crow. You read Color of Compromise. You read Stamp from the Beginning by Ibram Kendi, right? Maybe even read some Critical Race theory, read some Kimberly Crenshaw and start thinking and let, let that shape your understanding of American history. And that will change how you start seeing the world and start, and it will change also how you start hearing people say things. Because I can remember hearing Reverend Wright, for example, when that clip of him saying goddamn America was going around me and my white Sean Hannity bubble was like, how could a Christian say goddamn America? That's so hateful. And now I'm the one who's like, no, that man was right. Right, God damn America. Like, wow. Like, no, like, given the context, he was completely on the money of absolutely right. So it's possible to change. It takes Time. But do the work. And we need you to do the work. White people need to be the ones, I think, putting their bodies on the front lines because the arrows don't hit us the same way. We can use that privilege that way. You know, I think it's important to start doing the work. So that's my, that's my.

[A]

I love that, I love that. But do the work from a place of wanting to educate yourself and do better. Don't do the work and then expect black people to pat you on the back because that's not our job either. And I think a lot of people need to reconcile with whether what reason they're trying to do the work and trying to be better and trying to learn. Don't do it for gratification and acceptance. Do it because you know it's important. So just check your reason.

[B]

And for love of God, do not put ally in your bio. Okay? That's a title given, given to by you from other people. It's earned. Okay. Like, you know, people, people, queer folks say that. Black folks say that. You don't self describe it. It drives me crazy. I'm like, no, like you just don't. It's just inside your place to just self, you know, declare.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

You know, actual people will tell you that when they see you doing the work. All right, so anyway, okay, well listen, you want to get to maybe a little bit more of a light hearted segment?

[A]

Let's do it.

[B]

All right, let's do it. Do it. Christian. Oh, oh, April's voice. Okay, so there's a really good Instagram account that it just shares like really cringe props and like sermon illustrations that I think are just hilarious. So I will admit for our podcast audience, this one's a little more visual. Although the words are, are, are cringy as well. This is the pastor rock climbing. I'm just going to play it. We'll let it. We'll let, we'll let him say his thing and then we'll get your reaction to it. Here we go.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

A white pastor, by the way. No surprise. Two, three and exactly what you saw just happened. I prayed and I hit the wall. I didn't get my miracle that I prayed for, or at least I thought I didn't, cuz looking back nine years now, I did get the miracle. It's just not the miracle I thought y' all don't see it.

[A]

You missed it.

[B]

This is a miracle because I jumped, but I did not fall. I have a lot of questions, I.

[A]

Have a lot of Questions and commentary. But the first thing is, like, those walls aren't cheap. Like, why are you spending that money to bring a rock climbing wall to the church? And that's the thing that upsets me is like, that money could go into somebody in need. But you're bringing this here for 5 minutes to say something that could be effective. I'm not even saying that the message is bad, but you don't need the rock, you don't need the rock climbing wall to, to have that effective message. No, that's the first thing I always think when I see these churches have these light shows and these costumes and these visual. I'm like, there are people that need that money that are homeless and can't eat. And that's what we're supposed to be doing as Christians. And you're bringing in a rock climbing wall. That was the first response that I had because I was like, that's not cheap.

[B]

Yeah, okay. I, I, I, I think, I think the same way. Also. This shot, I think sums it up. This poor pad player, like, he's like, just at this guy hanging off the wall, like, what the hell did I sign up for? Right? And there's a good chance that this dude's like, like a higher contractor. He's not even like an attender of the church, right? But my thing is, so this dude's rock climbing, he jumps, and then he says that his miracle came because he jumped, not because, I guess he grabbed the, the, the next, the next, like, block or something. I'm like, bro, like, you're just, you're just re, you're just like, reinterpreting the fact that you didn't get what you wanted. And you're just saying, this is my new miracle. I jump. I, I think that's, oh, my God. It's just kind of sus, bro, you know? Like, you know, guys, I, my miracle didn't come. I didn't win the lottery. But nine years later, I realized my miracle was there all along. I tried to play the lottery and I was able to actually buy a ticket. People are like, that's why no one clapped. Like, what are you talking about? Like, that's the miracle. Like, you, you bought a lot. You know, it makes no sense at all. And I love how close he is to the ground.

[A]

I know, I know.

[B]

He's like three feet.

[A]

He's like three feet.

[B]

And I love how he's swinging here.

[A]

Look at him.

[B]

He's swinging while talking.

[A]

He's just swinging.

[B]

And I hit the super serious moment. He's just swinging. I didn't get my miracle that I prayed for. This is a good example of. I'm like, okay, I'm gonna judge this guy for a minute. God forgive me. And I don't know this guy, so maybe he is super well educated. This just strikes me as like the kid who grows up in church, goes to the church's non accredited, like leadership school and then becomes a pastor. It's like, bro, you think you said something, but you said a bunch of nothing.

[A]

Yeah, that is so. And also just like the commitment to get in the harness to like have to connect the, the, the string to the ceiling because you needed to be supported. It. This is just a lot. This is a lot lot. Clearly the congregation was like, oh, okay.

[B]

Like, so someone said in the chat hubs and I used to rock climb a lot. This is pathetic. Oh my God. Oh, we gotta laugh. We gotta laugh. Times are tough. Well, there you go. Oh my goodness. There you go, friends.

[A]

I enjoyed that.

[B]

Oh, me too, Me too. I need a little pig Pool me up. Well, a full show, Melinda. We covered a lot of ground, so.

[A]

We did. We did. I love it. Thanks for having me fun.

[B]

Absolutely. That was so great. Friends, listen, thank you again for being here. It means the world. Please make sure to give this video a like, thank you for all the super chats. If you want to get involved, you want to get plugged into a digital space that is trying to do the work that has created community spaces and freed resources, including our book club which is starting in October, our Theology 101, our regional group chat chats, go to thenewevangelicals.com connect. That's the place to go to. You'll get involved in our community. By the way, tne Connect is totally off and away from the all seeing eye of the meta algorithm and big tech, you know, sellouts who want to sell your data. So it's a great space. We own it, we control it. It's really beautiful. You can do all kinds of things in there and it's totally free. If you want to support the work that we're doing, please consider becoming a monthly donor. Listen, I'm going to be very frank with you as the audience, Melinda and the team and I, we are always scratching our heads thinking how do we convince people that we are super, like worried about the future and that we're trying to build something to help combat that future and also give people a better, you know, path forward in their faith while also only asking for $5 a month. That's the reality. Because here's the thing. We reach tens of thousands of people. People, okay? If a thousand people today became a monthly donor at $5,000 a month. Wow. $5. Not 5,000. That's 5,000. Sorry, don't do that. Well, you can. You. If you. If you're that rich, we will. We will take it. But let me. Let me backtrack that. We are looking for people to get $5 a month because $5,000 a month is a new staff position. That's someone that can help us with. With. With more of our resources, all that kind of stuff. So we are a nonprofit. All donations are tax deductible. You can also go to thenewevangelicals.com and donate there. That's what I gotta say. I mean, I really am. I'm asking you sincerely as the founder to just consider making a donation because we need your help. We're not billionaire back. We don't have a lot. We don't do grants. Like, we're just trying to make it happen. And your support means the world. So.

[A]

And we're just trying to make a positive impact in the world. Honestly, it's a simple thing. We're trying to lead like Jesus. And, and so. And we. We just. We need your help. And we're just grateful that you're here also, that you even found tne. That you're watching the media, that you're. If you on tne Connect, we're glad that you're here. Shoot us a message. But get involved. Get involved. And we'd love your support.

[B]

Yep. As we say this from our houses. Broadcasting from our house. All right, friends. Hey, great show. We'll see you all next week. Hey, don't forget, we are being broadcast for the first time on Lincoln Square Media as well. So some really cool stuff coming up for the Tim April show. We'll be back here live next Thursday. See you all later on Sam.