55. Timeline Cleanse: Hopeful Stories and Good People Standing Up to Harm

Summary

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The Tim & April Show – Episode 55

Timeline Cleanse: Hopeful Stories and Good People Standing Up to Harm
Date: October 17, 2025
Podcast: The New Evangelicals
Hosts: Tim Whitaker & April Ahjoy

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Overview

In this special “Timeline Cleanse” episode, Tim and April shift away from their usual critiques of Christian nationalism, doom-scrolling news, and unsettling trends in faith and politics. Instead, they center hopeful stories, community resistance, and examples of people—especially Christians—standing up to harm, advocating justice, and embodying a liberating faith. This change is designed to encourage listeners that, despite the barrage of discouraging news, there is good being done—and to inspire more of it.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Halloween Traditions in Evangelical Upbringings

[02:23–05:36]

• Tim and April swap childhood stories about “Hallelujah Nights,” trunk-or-treats, and the limitations placed on costumes due to evangelical fears about witchcraft and the occult.
• They discuss “hell houses” (church-run haunted houses depicting the consequences of sin), their traumatizing impact, and how these experiences were meant to scare children into salvation rather than foster real faith.

“Hell houses are these haunted houses put on by churches during Halloween...they bring people through these horrible scenarios, hoping that at the end of it, they get saved.”
– Tim [04:10]

Tone: Playful, self-deprecating, and critical of past fear-based faith tactics.

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2. Why a “Good News” Episode?

[05:37–07:08]

• With so much heaviness in their usual news coverage, Tim and April explicitly aim to “lighten the load” and spotlight recent examples where ordinary people resist injustice and live out hopeful values.

“We thought it might be good this week for today's episode ... to do a lot of good news and think about some of the positives that are out there...people that are resisting the Christian authoritarian nightmare that we find ourselves in.”
– Tim [05:37]

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3. Community Resisting ICE – Chicago Viral Video

[07:19–13:35]

• Tim and April break down a viral video from Chicago: plainclothes ICE agents (or impersonators) attempt to apprehend a man in daylight, but community members step in physically, record, and refuse to allow the abduction.
• They narrate the clip, noting the lack of identification or Miranda rights from agents, and the way bystanders—especially white allies—use their privilege and presence to disrupt the attempt.
• The ICE agents ultimately give up and flee, thanks to a peaceful yet forceful crowd response.

“This video is a great instruction manual for what you do...they use their voices, their numbers, to surround and to advocate for the man who was literally being kidnapped.”
– Tim [12:24]

“It's important for white people to use our privilege in a protest situation or in a situation like that, to put your body between the cop or the ICE agent and the ...person of color.”
– April [13:35]

Memorable Moment: The hosts celebrate “power in numbers” and encourage listeners to act with courage if ever witnessing such events in their own communities.

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4. University of Washington: Students Run Off a Neo-Nazi

[15:05–20:39]

• April recaps a recent incident from a psychology class where a self-identified neo-Nazi barged in, performed Nazi salutes, and hurled slurs.
• The entire class—over 150 students and the professor—chased the offender off campus and surrounded him for police to arrest.
• The host and news clip highlight how the crowd’s nonviolent response expressed a healthy public shaming of hate and fascism.

“We really should bring back the shame of being a Nazi...You should be chased down and swarmed...notice that they didn't beat him up, they just swarmed him.”
– April [20:18]

“You can't give it an inch. You cannot give fascism and this kind of stuff an inch. And frankly...I'm all done coddling this stuff.”
– Tim [22:43]

Tone: Exultant, energized, resolute in refusing tolerance for intolerance.

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5. Highlighting Christian Resistant Voices

[23:05–51:16]

a. Reverend Otis Moss III: Faith Over Fear, Real Christian Resistance

[24:34–33:36]

• Tim plays a clip from a sermon by Otis Moss III, leader in the Black liberation church tradition and President Obama’s former pastor.
• Moss denounces the “Confederate apologists and antebellum fanboys” who enable current ICE raids and family separations, likening today’s injustices to America’s racist past.
• Moss declares the faith community’s refusal to stay silent, affirms “faith over fear," and reclaims Christian rhetoric for justice and collective liberation.

“Salt always melts ICE and light always drives out darkness...we are joining faith communities across Illinois ... declaring that our faith is stronger than fear...we resist the rise of white Christian nationalism.”
– Rev. Otis Moss III [27:25–29:44]

“No child should ever be zip tied...”
– Rev. Otis Moss III [32:00]

• April reflects on the significance of Black faith leaders championing others, not just their own group.
• The hosts clarify the difference between Christian resistance to oppression and Christian nationalism.

“Christian nationalism is when you are promoting the already powerful and marginalized people pay the price. It is not Christian nationalism to use your faith to stand up for marginalized people.”
– April [36:13]

b. James Talarico: The Gospel in Politics

[42:55–46:28]

• Tim shares a viral clip from Texas politician James Talarico, a Christian who regularly rebukes injustice in legislative debates.
• Talarico invokes Matthew 25, equating Christ with the vulnerable in modern society, and imagines what Jesus would say to lawmakers who cut aid and abuse power.

“Christ is the immigrant, deported without due process. Christ is the senior deprived of their Social Security...Christ is the protester kidnapped in an unmarked vehicle by plainclothes officers...”
– James Talarico [43:21]

• Tim and April stress the importance of Christians using “the same book” to fight Christian nationalism and embody liberation.

c. Ryann Geurin-Henry: The Cross and the Lynching Tree

[48:40–51:10]

• April introduces minister and content creator Ryann Geurin-Henry, who elucidates how, historically, lynchings of Black men were often ruled suicides unjustly.
• Ryann reads from James Cone’s “The Cross and the Lynching Tree,” connecting Jesus’ death to the suffering of Black victims, emphasizing Christianity’s identification with the oppressed.

“Jesus died like a lynched black man or a common criminal...It was a cruel, agonizing and contemptible death. This is what we need to be talking about.”
– Ryann Geurin-Henry (paraphrasing Cone) [49:40]

• The hosts underscore the necessity of listening to diverse Christian traditions, especially those rooted in Black resistance.

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6. Encouragement & Local Action

[52:07–53:40]

• Both hosts urge listeners to reject despair by getting involved locally—advocating for neighbors, building justice-oriented communities, and raising empathetic children.

“Get involved in your schools. Raise empathetic and loving kids who are justice-centered...get involved...How can we protect the people that our government is targeting? This is an all hands on deck situation...”
– Tim [52:53]

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7. Fun Clip: “Sandra Bullock and Reba McEntire Will Go to Prison”

[53:53–57:45]

• For comic relief, Tim and April share a bizarre Instagram Reel of a man predicting “Sandra Bullock and Reba McEntire will go to prison in Jesus’ name. Amen.”
• Both hosts struggle to find any explanation or reason for the pronouncement, noting the video is not satire but has thousands of likes.
• April parodies the format:

“Donald Trump and Stephen Miller will go to prison. In Jesus’ name, Amen.” [57:24]

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Notable Quotes & Moments with Timestamps

• “This will be real unless you repent...This is your fate.”
  – April & Tim on hell houses, [05:25–05:36]

• “Salt always melts ICE and light always drives out darkness.”
  – Rev. Otis Moss III [29:35]

• “There are certain beliefs, like being a Nazi, that are not deserving of tolerance.”
  – April [23:05]

• “May it be so, right for the crimes they’re committing...Not for just no reason. I don't know what Reba and Sandra did...”
  – April [57:33]

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Episode Structure & Timestamps

| Segment | Time | |--------------------------------------------|-----------| | Halloween & Hell House Memories | 02:23–06:44| | Why Good News? | 06:44–07:08| | Chicago Community Resists ICE | 07:19–13:35| | University of Washington Students vs. Nazi | 15:05–20:39| | Christian Resistance: Otis Moss III | 24:34–36:27| | James Talarico Clip | 42:55–46:28| | Ryann Geurin-Henry, Lynching & the Cross | 48:40–51:10| | Encouragement for Action | 52:07–53:40| | Sandra Bullock/Reba McEntire Meme | 53:53–57:45|

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Episode Takeaways

• There is real and active resistance—often led by marginalized communities and progressive Christians—against authoritarianism, white Christian nationalism, and systems of harm.
• Liberation theology and faith-inspired justice work offer a sharp alternative to the weaponized religion of Christian nationalism.
• Public shaming of fascism and anti-democratic movements is both historically grounded and necessary.
• Local action, recording abuses, standing in solidarity, and reclaiming faith language are all important tools for listeners to consider.
• Even amid challenging times, hope is sustained by persistent, courageous acts of love and justice—extend this in your neighbor's direction.

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For more information or to join the New Evangelicals community, visit thenewevangelicals.com.

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Transcript

[April Ahjoy]

You're listening to a new evangelicals production.

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[News Reporter]

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[Tim Whitaker]

We were returning home and one of the flight attendants asked Bronx if he wanted to see the flight deck and meet Captain Andrew.

[April Ahjoy]

I got to sit in the driver's seat.

[Tim Whitaker]

I grew up in an aviation family and seeing Bronx kind of reminded me of myself when I was that age. That's Andrew, a real United pilot. These small interactions can shape a kid's future.

[April Ahjoy]

Like I was the captain.

[Tim Whitaker]

Allowing my son to see the flight.

[Christian]

Deck will stick with us forever.

[Tim Whitaker]

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[April Ahjoy]

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[Katie]

I don't even know my size.

[April Ahjoy]

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[April Ahjoy]

The Tim and April show, where we unravel faith, politics and culture. Hello everybody.

[Melinda Hale]

Welcome.

[April Ahjoy]

Welcome to the Tim and April Show. I am April Ahjoy. I am Tim Whitaker and today is a Tuesday. It is spooky season. I have my skeleton sweatshirt on.

[Tim Whitaker]

Are you a big Halloween person?

[April Ahjoy]

I love Halloween.

[Tim Whitaker]

Is that because you grew up in a tradition that wouldn't let you celebrate it and now you have to make up for lost time and become a Satanist?

[April Ahjoy]

Exactly.

[Tim Whitaker]

Well, haven't you heard? When you deconstruct, it's a slippery slope. And Satanism is on the way to atheism, so.

[April Ahjoy]

Right. And then that's highway to hell.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah. Yeah.

[April Ahjoy]

You know what? My parents. Actually, I was allowed to go trick or treating, but we. And we. But we still did, like, hallelujah night at church.

[Tim Whitaker]

Wait, wait, I'm sorry. Did you call it Hallelujah night?

[April Ahjoy]

Yeah, that's what our Halloween night was. And you would still dress up in costumes and they'd have different booths where you would, like, compete for prizes. It was actually a lot of fun. But then we would also do real trick or treating in our neighborhood, too.

[Tim Whitaker]

I've just never heard it called Hallelujah night. I've. Harvest festivals. Trunk or treat's a thing. Right. I was also allowed to trick or treat, surprisingly, as well. We dressed up for Halloween, but I've never heard it called the hallelujah night. That's amazing.

[April Ahjoy]

I've heard of a few other hallelujah nights out there, but we would, like. We weren't allowed. I wasn't allowed to ever dress up into anything witchy, for sure. You know, and obviously, like, Harry Potter was banned, and so we were a little. We were a little picky and choosy with.

[United Airlines Customer]

With.

[April Ahjoy]

With devily things, I guess.

[Tim Whitaker]

Wait, did you ever do hell houses or a hell house?

[April Ahjoy]

I did. I went to a hell house when I was 12.

[Christian]

You did?

[April Ahjoy]

That was traumatizing. It was how I learned about abortion.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah. So for those who don't know, Hell houses are these haunted houses put on by churches during Halloween. It's not. I would say, in my experience, it's more on the charismatic side of things, like, as growing up, more reformed. We never did this, but I knew friends of mine who were part of charismatic churches or a master's commission, which is the Assemblies of God, like, discipleship school, and they would put on these hell houses, and essentially it's like a real haunted house where they bring people through these horrible scenarios, hoping that at the end of it, they get saved.

[April Ahjoy]

Yeah. I mean, they're also called judgment houses.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah.

[April Ahjoy]

There's one in Virginia that Liberty University, I'm pretty sure puts on called Scare Mare. So they could be called different things, but instead of, like, in a haunted house where you have, you know, Mike Michael Myers and scare. You know, like ghosts and zombies and your typical, like, Halloween scare tactics. Instead of that, it's just literal biblical demons and sins that are committed by different people and then they die. It's kind of like Final Destination, but make it Christian and you go to Hell Yeah, And.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah, exactly. And believe that it's totally the real situation. You know, like, if this will happen to you, you will go to hell.

[April Ahjoy]

Exactly. It's instead of, like, in a haunted house, you can be like, this isn't real. This isn't real. In a hell house, you are constantly reminded, like, this will be real unless you repent.

[Tim Whitaker]

This is your fate.

[April Ahjoy]

Yeah.

[Tim Whitaker]

But we're not here to talk about hell houses or bad things today. We're here to talk. You know, April, you and I have been doing this show now for over a year because we started on the New Evangelicals podcast as a Friday segment, and then we birthed out of that the Tim and April show. Right. And we. People know what we do. I mean, if you're tuning into this show, you know what you're in for. A lot of shitty news and clips and just things that drive us crazy. And we thought that it might be good this week for today's episode and Thursday, because I'll be out of town at Theology Beer Camp. It's an amazing event that I go to every year with a bunch of scholars and nerds and friends of mine. And I think that this week we're going to do a lot of good news and think about some of the positives that are out there, meaning there are people that are doing good things and that are resisting the Christian authoritarian nightmare that we find ourselves in. So today we want to actually encourage you guys. I know it's a huge shift. Usually we're probably just discouraging you, but this time we're going to. We're going to share a few clips and respond to them that have good things to say in good people doing great work.

[April Ahjoy]

Yeah. So. Because there's plenty of doom and groom. Doom and groom. Probably grooming, too, but probably a lot of that. Doom and groom.

[Christian]

There's dooming, there's grooming.

[Tim Whitaker]

It's terrible.

[April Ahjoy]

Oh, my gosh, I'm tired. It's been a week.

[James Talarico]

Feel that.

[April Ahjoy]

Yeah, we just wanted to lighten the load and just show, like, hey, there's a lot of bad things, but there's also a lot of good things happening.

[Tim Whitaker]

Exactly, exactly. So buckle up. Let's let. Let's go through a few clips. Now, listen, the first clip, we're gonna. We're gonna. We're gonna start in the shallow end, meaning this show will.

[James Talarico]

This.

[Tim Whitaker]

This first clip will start off like how we would normally cover clips. Terrible, bad. But the ending is actually quite positive. So I'm not sure if people saw this clip going around it was kind of viral. But this was, this happened in Chicago and there was an attempt to kidnap a person. We don't know their immigration status. They might be undocumented, they could be a citizen. But we do know that this person was probably at a minimum racially profiled because that's what this regime is doing. They are looking for Hispanic folks or brown skinned folks and they are going after them. So this is a longer clip and we're going to keep the audio low so April and I can kind of narrate over for the podcast audience. But I. This clip has a happy ending. So we have these two people who popped out of a. An unmarked car that was actually ice and they are trying to take this person, I guess in the custody. April. I don't know, but it's like he has, he only has one shoe on. One person is in uniform, the other person is not. And people start. This is when it. Like this is a longer clip. I think it's worth playing the whole thing.

[April Ahjoy]

And where is this at?

[Tim Whitaker]

Chicago.

[April Ahjoy]

The clips coming out of Chicago are just terrible.

[Tim Whitaker]

They're horrible. They're horrible. I mean, the reason why I didn't want to edit this clip is because I want people to see just how inhumane and brutal these things are. I mean we. There's no, you're under arrest. There's no Miranda rights being given. Right.

[April Ahjoy]

It's like just masked men, which alone is problematic because this can just lead to people impersonating ICE for one. But then also like these men are not trained. You can tell they're not trained in how they don't know, understand any de escalation tactics and how they're being like they're so violent too. So now if you're listening, a few people nearby are walking to the scene. This ICE agent is literally like on top of this man. He's. The man is on all fours and the ICE agent is on top of him.

[Tim Whitaker]

And a crowd starting to gather. All the horns you hear beeping are people with their cars trying to, I think, disrupt what's happening. There's a couple people now surrounding this person or these two agents. If even, if they even are, we don't know. For all we could be cast playing.

[April Ahjoy]

Yeah, the ICE agent has him in a chokehold now. Okay, now he's let go. He.

[Tim Whitaker]

This, this person is in fear and terror. He has no clue what's going on.

[April Ahjoy]

One of the guys, one of the guys is just in jeans and a white T shirt and a mask.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yep. And he's wearing a Yankee. I think it's a New York Yankees hat. It's crazy. So now the crowd, more and more people are joining in and there's someone like within maybe a foot recording the whole thing. There's another guy who's like trying to get the crowd more riled up to be like, this is crazy. There's also a lot of language in this clip. So sorry for that, but they're still trying to apprehend this guy.

[April Ahjoy]

Yeah, that is something that the Illinois governor has said to like, record everything that can be. That is such a powerful tool in with everything that is happening. Record if you see something happening.

[Tim Whitaker]

The. Now this, this other man, the civilian literally has his hand and is trying to pull the man out of the grasp of the ICE agent. Like he's literally in the middle putting his body on the line. Because let's face it, these people, these agents are. They have no restrictions. They're assaulting civilians, peaceful protesters. There's clips all over the place of them doing it, and yet that person's there. So now the person in the jeans who's not marked as an agent is on top of this man, trying to put him in zip ties. But the crowd is surrounding and there's more and more people. There's a lady in a red truck who's like yelling at. I mean, it's honestly a very powerful scene of community engagement, you know?

[April Ahjoy]

Yeah. It looks like they have zip ties and they're trying to zip ties his wrist right now. Two men now are on top of him on the ground. I'm assuming the ICE agents, this poor man. And one thing that's happening is they're not identifying themselves and they're not even providing paperwork of why they're arresting people.

[Tim Whitaker]

Right.

[April Ahjoy]

And they are often arresting people wrongly. Like they're arresting the wrong people. People that are here that are doing all the right things in here legally. A lot.

[Tim Whitaker]

American citizens.

[April Ahjoy]

Yes.

[Tim Whitaker]

Right. So what I love about. Oh, there we go. Okay. So the agents gave up. This is why we wanted to show this clip. They gave up. They got back in their unmarked, like civilian looking car and sped off. Because the community rallied around. It would not let them get away with that bullshit. And away they go.

[April Ahjoy]

I mean, this is amazing community efforts right here.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yes, yes. I think that. Look, there's a good chance that most of the audience who's listening or watching has seen the same clips, April, that you and I see on our social media feeds. Right. We've seen the way that these federal agents are literally invading Cities, they're stomping on civilians, they are assaulting peaceful protesters. Right. And it can feel really gloomy like what do we do? And I think that that video is a great instruction manual for, for what you do. They were peaceful, there was no violence. But they use their, their, their voices, they use their numbers to surround and to advocate for the man who was literally being kidnapped. I mean, again, I'm not sure if anyone has ever seen the episode of Cops. People are read their Miranda rights, which the Supreme Court has ruled applies to people, even folks who are undocumented because they're on US Soil. Okay, that's not happening here. Agents, if they, even our agents, are coming out of vehicles that look like everyday civilian vehicles and just capturing people and we don't know where they're going. And so I hope that if I see something like this in my own neighborhood, that I have the guts to get out of my car, start recording and put my body on the line for my neighbor. You know, I thought about that, like, what would I do? What would I, would I chicken out and just try and pretend I didn't see it? Or would I get in the way? And I think when we all as communities come together and advocate for people who are being kidnapped by this regime, we have a higher chance of these people backing off and leaving our neighbors alone.

[April Ahjoy]

Yeah. And there is power in numbers, as clearly shows right there. And I also think too, it's important too for white people to use privileges, our white privilege, when you're in like a protest situation or in a situation like that, to put your body between the cop or the ICE agent and the immigrant or the person of color because they, as history has showed us, they're less likely to go after a white person. So you put your body between them is like, is a great way to ally 100%.

[Melinda Hale]

Hey everyone, Melinda Hale here, executive director of the New Evangelicals. Thanks for listening to our podcast. I just wanted to take a minute to personally invite you to be a part of our community. At tne, we're creating space for people of faith who care about justice, compassion, and living out the teachings of Jesus in real tangible ways. As a nonprofit organization, not only do we offer thought provoking podcasts, but on our new app and online platform, T and E Connect, we offer free educational resources, additional content, and a space to connect with like minded people for meaningful conversations and encouragement. So if what we're doing has been helpful to you, if you've learned something, felt, seen or been challenged to grow head over to theneweevangelicals.com to join TNE, connect or make a donation. Your support means the world to us. Thanks for being a part of the movement.

[Tim Whitaker]

Okay, what's the next clip you want to get to? We got a few great ones here.

[April Ahjoy]

Speaking of power in numbers, there is a story that came out of the University of Washington last week and it's in the Psych so Psychology 210 class. Basically, we're going to show you a news clip that kind of explains the situation, but I want to be able to stop it and just like, look at these clips too. So I'm going to explain it ahead of time, but.

[Christian]

Okay.

[April Ahjoy]

There's a site class that has like 150 plus students. It's a huge class. And in the middle of the class, in the middle of the class, a young man who does not go to the college barges into the class, starts yelling slurs, starts hiling Hitler and saying a bunch of Nazi propaganda in this psych class, I don't know why. And so people start filming it and eventually a couple students get up and kind of run after the guy to get him to stop. And so he takes out the door. Then More. Then the professor, she kind of. I don't know what she says because it's hard to hear, but she gestures like, I'll be back. The professor, who's a woman, who's a white woman, also goes out there. And then all these other students go out there. And the video clips of like 150 plus students, maybe more, I think more joined, chase this guy completely off campus, then surround him and wait for campus police that eventually come and arrest him because he was trespassing and, you know, wrecking havoc. But it's just the footage alone is just. It's fun. I mean, it's funny. Honestly, I don't know if you've seen Weapons, but there's a scene in Weapons where a lady in pink is running. And it's very reminiscent. Reminiscent of that.

[Tim Whitaker]

Am I allowed to say I've never even heard of. Is it a show? Is it a movie? I've never heard of the movie that.

[April Ahjoy]

Came out like a month ago, maybe two months ago.

[Tim Whitaker]

Well, that's why I'm so behind me. Oh, well, that's also why, April, we've been over this. I don't do horror.

[April Ahjoy]

You know, it's weird. I don't really do horror either. But Beecher always talks me into watching certain horror, and then I end up kind of liking it. I like horror that has, like, Mystery and has somewhat of a redemptive.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah.

[April Ahjoy]

Ending. You know, I just. I don't like torture. Like, I mean, I think so. I think I thought it was pretty good. I don't really know what the message was, but it was a very entertaining horror film.

[Tim Whitaker]

I'll add it to my list. Okay, so let's play this clip and then you tell me when you want me to pause and I'll. I'll pause appropriately. Here we go. This is from Seattle news tonight. Fox 13 coming in hot with the story. University of Washington police arrested a person.

[James Talarico]

On campus who's accused of barging into.

[Tim Whitaker]

A classroom and even making a Nazi salute.

[News Reporter]

Yeah. And after seeing several videos go viral on social media, I turned to campus officials for the whole story.

[Tim Whitaker]

Great job.

[News Reporter]

You're watching a mob of students form on the UW campus chasing someone accused of making a Nazi salute. And it's got the universe.

[Tim Whitaker]

Wow. There's a lot of them. There's a lot of.

[Katie]

That's.

[Tim Whitaker]

That is a. I mean, when I said mob, I'm like, okay, a mob. No, look at that. Oh, my gosh.

[Christian]

It's a lot of people.

[Tim Whitaker]

Okay, all right, keep going.

[April Ahjoy]

I know.

[Tim Whitaker]

Wait.

[April Ahjoy]

Just wait for it. There's a wide screenshot that is just epic.

[News Reporter]

And accused of making a Nazi salute. And it's got the University of Washington investigating. Check out the swarm from a different angle. After seeing these viral videos on social media, I turned to the university to verify the content and provide additional information.

[Tim Whitaker]

It's like a zombie horde and the walking dead. It's crazy. All those.

[April Ahjoy]

There's a video that he the the not. And he's a self proclaimed neo Nazi. So like, calling him a Nazi is not an exaggerated thing. But he posted the video. He's also filming from his pov. And his POV is also pretty funny because it's just a swarm of people.

[Tim Whitaker]

I love this. Okay, here's what I learned.

[News Reporter]

It all went down on Wednesday. UW claims this person walked into a lecture hall, made the Nazi salute, and then began hurling insults at the instructor and students. That instructor. And then what appears to be dozens of students followed them out of the classroom and into Red Square. And that is where a chaotic chase begins down towards Strumheller Fountain.

[Tim Whitaker]

Oh my God. There's so many of them.

[April Ahjoy]

I love running. They all take off. Even the professor.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah, I'm a huge. And they're mostly white people doing this. Even better.

[News Reporter]

I love it on the ground surrounded by the mob of students.

[Tim Whitaker]

By the way, the. The Snapchat The Snapchat, like, tag from this video says, Psych 2:10 don't play. That's funny.

[News Reporter]

After some time, UW police intervened and took them into custody. You can see them getting cuffed here. UW police say this is not a UW student and they'll be banned from campus. Criminal charges are pending, and they'll be referred to the King County Prosecutor's office.

[April Ahjoy]

Wow. Like, I just feel like we really should bring back the shame of being a Nazi, right? You're gonna go out in public and be a Nazi. You should be chased down and swarmed and notice that, like, they didn't beat him up, they just swarmed him. There were enough of them to do it until the. The campus police were able to come and arrest him.

[Tim Whitaker]

I. Yeah, no, I. Look, Elon Musk gave a Nazi salute the day Trump was inaugurated, celebrating his inauguration. And by the way, to be clear, because it's always. It's. It's always easier to say things after the fact. They sound a lot more like clear as opposed to in the moment. But the only group of people who tried to defend Elon Musk for not giving a Nazi salute were these white MAGA Christians. The white alt. The alt right was like, yep, that was a Nazi salute. The moderates and left leftists were like, that was a Nazi salute. But Ali stuck. He's like, no, he was just giving his heart out. Charlie Kirk was like, no, it's not like they were the only people defending the indefensible, which is just hilarious to me. But, no, you're right. We have to. Look, World War II is not even 100 years behind us. Okay? Hitler is not even 100 years in our memory. The Holocaust is not even 100 years. Years in our memory. Nazis and people who identify as such and who give Nazi salutes and who talk about how great Hitler might have been and who are drawing from his playbook should absolutely be shamed in public for those views, because those views kill people. That's why. It's not. It's not just like, we're making this up for the sake of. Well, I disagree with someone's policies. We know where the views that Hitler espoused lead because we have history that will show you where they led. A huge world war. Millions dead, A brutal holocaust of the Jewish people. Six million Jews dead. Like, that's why this stuff should be shamed. You can't give it an inch. You cannot give fascism and this kind of stuff an inch. And frankly, Abraham, I'm not sure how you've been feeling lately, but I am really at the point where I'm like, I'm all done coddling this stuff. I'm all done trying to be a good faith actor to people who are espousing fascist ideology because we know where it leads. And we also know that fascism does not want to reason together and work together. It wants to take over. That's all it wants to do. So I'm all about publicly shaming Nazis and sending a mob of college students after them nonviolently. Abso freaking lutely. Yeah, it's great.

[April Ahjoy]

More good news. There are certain beliefs, like being a Nazi, that are not deserving of tolerance.

[Tim Whitaker]

No, for sure. I mean, tolerance has to work and it can't. Tolerance cannot work in the face of intolerance. That's the whole point. You know, there is a paradox there. It's just one of those things. So. Okay, I want to share. And April, we were talking about this. Look, I know that we critique a lot of Christians on this show, mostly Christian fundamentalists, and for good reason, by the way. Like, I don't. I stand behind those critiques. But I think what we don't say, maybe often enough, is that there are a lot of Christians doing really important work and who are at the forefront of resisting this current Christian nationalist takeover. And I think it's important to highlight a few of them that, that we really respect for a lot of reasons, either in politics or in the church or just on social media. And so I think we should play a few of those clips as well, because I want people to know that Christianity is not a monolith. Right? It's a house. It's a massive house. And just because the moldy, stinky, damp, dark basement of Christian fundamentalism is currently taking over does not mean that there are not really important and beautiful rooms of the house that are worth looking into and also learning from who, by the way, have traditions rooted in. In oppression under the boot of empire, especially Christian ones.

[Christian]

Right.

[Tim Whitaker]

Like, I think that's the time to learn. So I. I think the first one I wanted to play is from someone who I really respect. And by the way, I've interviewed a lot of these folks. So if you go to the new evangelicals podcast or YouTube channel, you can find my interviews with almost all of his people if you want a deeper dive on it. But the first person I wanted to bring up is. Is this man right here. This is Reverend Otis Mas iii. Honestly, for white Christians, even progressive ones, he really is under the radar, which is really A shame. It just kind of goes to that. It really is telling, like how segregated we still are, even in progressive spaces where we have people that are in our circles, but we don't think about folks who are outside of them in the Christian tradition. Reverend Otis Moss is President Obama's pastor. His father, Otis Moss, marched with mlk. This is like one. This is to put it in. To put it in like a white evangelical context. This is like the Andy Stanley of like the Black Liberation Church, right? This man has deep ties to the social justice movement, to the black liberation gospel. I've had the privilege of meeting him several times in person. We've become quite friendly. I've had him on the podcast. He's brilliant. I mean, the way that he can talk about history and music and the arts and theology like no one I've ever met before. And I've had the privilege of going to his church. And this is a couple minute segment from one of his sermons. And the reason why I picked it up is because I want folks to hear Christian language used in a context of liberation and justice and resisting authoritarianism. Because too often I think we've ceded Christianese, so to speak, because we don't want to sound like our fundamentalist upbringing. Right. We don't want to say things like faith over fear because that reminds us of Sean Foy in Covid. And I understand that, by the way. I'm not saying that people who have that background have to start using these terms, but I want you to hear someone who's going to use terms like that, but in a completely different context, hopefully to kind of wake you guys up to the reality that it's not the words that are problematic, it's the meanings behind them that matter. So let's go through this. I'm going to try and not pause that often because I want him to really speak and kind of get this whole thing out. It's about a seven minute clip, but it's worth listening to. Here we go.

[April Ahjoy]

Okay, let's do it.

[Tim Whitaker]

Let's do it.

[Christian]

Share something with you that is happening all across the city and also this state we are in a moment in not only history, but in this city where our city is under siege. Our city is under siege not from foreign forces, but our city is under siege from those who I like to call Confederate apologists and antebellum fanboys. And it is our responsibility to speak with moral clarity and a spiritual rooting. We have witnessed some things that have happened in this city, whether you live in broad view or where the ICE headquarters are, where it's difficult for people who are our seasoned saints to breathe because of the pepper spray and the tear gas. Or if you are in South Shore, as recently that ICE rappelling from helicopters. They detained everyone in one building in South Shore, claiming that they were looking just for a, quote, unquote, a few undocumented. They zip tied children, brought them out at 3am in the morning and they carted away their parents and none of them were willing to identify themselves. They busted down doors. All of this has been documented. But we want to share something with you, and I say we because there is a coalition of churches across this city that we will not be quiet in the midst of what is happening. I want to thank God for my sisters and brothers from the south side, west side, the north side, also in the Southern words. We are not going quietly and we will not bend and we will not back up. We say this collectively. All of us are saying the same thing today. What you will hear me say, churches across this city, whether they are black, white, Latino, Asian, whatever they are, they are saying the same thing today from their pulpits. Now, those churches that want to be silent, go ahead and be silent. But for the rest of us, we are going to speak and speak loudly in reference to what is happening, because this is immoral. This has nothing to do with Jesus Christ, whatever. Jesus never called families to be separated, for children to be zip tied, for seniors to be traumatized. This has nothing to do with the gospel and has nothing to do with quote, unquote, finding people who are undocumented or illegal. We are living in a moment of authoritarianism in this nation. We are not on a road to it. We have somebody who wants to be a king, not a president, and wants to create a monarchy for his own family. And so this is a statement that we have created, that we want to make sure that those across the city are very clear family. Today we are joining faith communities across Illinois and across this nation, declaring that our faith is stronger than fear. We lift our voices together so the world knows fear will not divide us, silence us or stop us from seeking justice. We resist the rise of white Christian nationalism, and we boldly declare that this will not be a country living under authoritarian rule. We stand in the tradition of our ancestors who chose faith over fear, justice over injustice, and courage over silence. Today we join our voices with theirs. We are the salt of the earth. We are the light of the world. And never forget, salt always melts ice and light always drives out darkness. If you will stand with me right now, we put our fists in the air and we say, faith over fear. Faith over fear. Faith over fear. Let us pray. Lord God, we thank you that you are God of liberation and power. You have called us to be the salt of the earth and the light of this world. We will lift our voices, speak with moral clarity, and we will speak liberation in this moment. No child should ever be zip tied and taken out of a building at 3am no elder should ever be traumatized a door broken down when they have a walker and can't even get out of the building. We declare right now, in your son's name, we will push back against forces that seek to demean our capacity to live out to the fullness of what you have called us to be. Faith over. Here we claim that you have not given us the spirit of fear, that your spirit and love drives out all fear. And we declare right now, in the name of Jesus, we shall be victorious. For we are your people. We trust in you in all our ways and we will hold on to your unchanging hands. We thank you and we love you. And in Jesus name we pray. And the people of God who love God may say faith over fear. Amen. Amen.

[Tim Whitaker]

Good.

[April Ahjoy]

That was so powerful.

[Tim Whitaker]

I know.

[April Ahjoy]

I like, I like tearing up a little because I think same it means so much. Like black people have already been through so much in this country and they have faced so much oppression through slavery, through Jim Crow laws, the KKK still exists. Segregation, systematic racism. You have mass incarcerations of black men. And they could easily just sit like they have a lot to lose, you know, like putting their bodies and their lives online for a different group of oppressed people. Yeah, Like, I don't know, it's just a really beautiful thing. And I also really appreciate how their faith, they actually mean faith over fear when they say faith over fear. Like, how many conservatives, white Christians have you seen, like, they wear the T shirts they bought from Walmart that say faith over fear. I remember they screamed faith over fear during COVID but they used that in order to not wear a mask. They used faith over fear to not get a COVID vaccine because they were like, they were literally harming people in the process of using faith over fear because also they're afraid of everything. They're afraid of demons coming out of your tv. They're afraid of drag queens. They're afraid of evolution. They're afraid of Harry Potter. They're afraid of Halloween. They literally are afraid of everything. They're Afraid of immigrants. So them using faith over fear is so cheap and just not true. And they use it for political reasons to skirt Christ, like accountability.

[Melinda Hale]

Right?

[April Ahjoy]

They were using faith over fear because they believed the church was being persecuted when we were in a global pandemic. But here you have people actually using faith over fear because what ICE is doing and what this administration is doing is terrifying. There is every right to be scared. For them to stand up in Chicago, as he's doing right now and that whole church is doing, there could be actual consequences that are worthy of being afraid. And they're saying, we know the consequences and we are still standing up for what's right. And I just want to say too, I know there's going to be someone in the comments that's like, how is that different than white Christian nationalism? Because you're using Jesus and talking about political issues. So let me be clear. Christian nationalism is, when you are promoting the already powerful and marginalized people, pay the price. It is not Christian nationalism to use your faith to stand up for marginalized people.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yep. Yeah. No, I. No notes. Exactly. That's why I wanted to play this clip. Because that faith over fear line was so hijacked by your Sean Foites and this movement of white people who thought that they were under persecution because not that they couldn't worship or meet in small groups, but because mass gatherings across the country were ground to a halt because of a pandemic. Right? And I think for those of us out there, and this is not everyone, I respect that. But for people like you and me, April, and many others out there who want to find a better path forward in faith, you know, what if those words meant something very different than what our context gave us? Right? What if prayers to Jesus by being the salt of the earth. Right. Had a very different meaning than the culture war oriented salt of the earth. We were taught in our white evangelical churches that hey, there's a threat coming because gay people want to get married and your salt of the earth by standing opposed to those those people, right? What if instead it meant what Reverend Otis Moss is saying here, that it means putting yourself in the way of power for the sake of your neighbor. And you're totally right. The black tradition in America has every reason to be very afraid. Right? Because this is the whole legacy of American history, race based shadow slavery. I mean, even recently, Trey Reid. Right. We're now finding out that, that the police saying this was probably an act of suicide was completely not true. There was a second autopsy done because Colin Kaepernick, the people, the person that white America hated for taking a knee during the NFL games. Right.

[April Ahjoy]

I have seen that reported. I haven't seen the official release of the second autopsy.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah, but what I was, what I'm going to say, yes, I have not seen it as of this recording. But when I was, what I was going to say was that there is a story going around that the second autopsy reveals blunt force trauma to the head. Right. And so again, and for the record, when the Trade Reach story came up, black America was like, ain't no way this is a suicide because black men do not hang themselves from trees in Mississippi. Right. I'm just using the point of, like, even today there are situations happening where that, that, that, that are, that are reminiscent or just another version of what has happened to black America in the past. And instead of those people who I would argue have every right to say we are being persecuted for our faith and for who we are, they instead put their fists in the air, declare faith over fear, and say we're going to push back on white Christian nationalism and stand up for our neighbors in Chicago and this is not going to happen here. Powerful, right? Powerful. Well, and the way that Christianity. That's where I want to be, you know.

[April Ahjoy]

Exactly. Well, and there's still black men and women in prison for marijuana possession charges.

[Katie]

Yes.

[April Ahjoy]

Where Robert Morris, who molested a 12 year old, gets six months.

[Tim Whitaker]

Six months. Six months. Robert Morris, for those who don't know, is a megachurch pastor who also was Trump's spiritual advisor for a little bit. He was on his advisory board and it was found out decades after the fact that, that he molested a 12 year old in the 80s and that woman fought for herself for decades and she. He gets six months in prison for rape after building the biggest mega church in America. Yeah, no, absolutely. I mean, the system is so obviously rigged against people of color. I mean, the mass incarceration rates are extremely high for black men and there's all kinds of reasons for that, you know. But yeah, I wanted to share that clip because I want people out there to know that there are amazing Christian traditions that use language that might sound triggering to my whitelical friends out there, but have a very different meaning and application for how those words are used.

[Melinda Hale]

Hey, everyone, this is Melinda Hale, the executive director of the New Evangelicals. Listen. Every day we hear from people who feel isolated and disillusioned and hurt by a version of Christianity that has been hijacked by politics and nationalism, and yet they still long for a faith that is rooted in love, justice and compassion. And that's why the new evangelicals exist, because we believe there is a better path forward. We're creating resources, hosting conversations, and we're building communities for people who want to reclaim Christianity and stay rooted in the teachings of Jesus. But building a movement like this takes time. It takes energy, and it takes financial support. So if this podcast or our YouTube, our educational offerings or community space or anything that we've created has impacted you, would you consider becoming a donor? Even a gift of $5 makes a huge difference for small organizations like this. Your support helps us to continue empowering people to put their faith into action by rejecting Christian nationalism and to live in a way that shows people how to truly love our neighbors. Together, I know that we could build something beautiful. So visit theneweevangelicals.com support to give today. You can find the link right in our show notes. Thank you for standing with us.

[Katie]

Hi, my name is Katie and I live in St. Paul, Minnesota and I am a proud supporter of TNE. Like many of you, I have spent my entire life in evangelical Christianity. But my life took a turn when my best friend came out to me as a lesbian. Long story short, I went to therapy, I came out as queer and realized I was in love with my best friend. And we are now engaged and soon to be married. However, this journey has been full of painful moments and coming out to my religious family has been the most dehumanizing experience. In addition, my fiance and I both worked at a non affirming Christian university. So when we came out, we were fired. Through all of these difficult moments, TNE has been there with compassionate ideas and language that I could use in hard conversations. This work has been a lifeline for me in my faith journey and it must continue. And that is why I am so proud to support the work of the new evangelicals.

[Tim Whitaker]

Shall we keep going?

[April Ahjoy]

Yes, we shall keep going.

[Tim Whitaker]

Let's go to a politician.

[United Airlines Customer]

Hmm.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah. I've also had the pleasure of interviewing James Talarico twice on the podcast New Evangelicals Podcast. You can find it on YouTube or on podcast. It's part of the TNE Media Network, as is this show. And again, I just think that this is the type of Christianity we need. Here's a one minute clip from James. He goes viral all the time. I really thought this clip was powerful. Check it out.

[James Talarico]

Christ says what we do for the least of these, we do for him. So where is Christ today? Christ is the immigrant, deported without due process. Christ Is the senior deprived of their Social Security benefits? Christ is the protester kidnapped in an unmarked vehicle by plainclothes officers. Christ is the student sitting in an overcrowded classroom in a defunded school. Sometimes I wonder, what would Jesus do if he visited the Texas legislature? What would he say to me and my colleagues? I think he would tell us, depart from me, for I was hungry and you cut my food stamps. I was sick and you kicked me off Medicaid. I was a stranger and you deported me and my family. I was in prison and you wouldn't even pay for air conditioning. And then I think he would flip over our fancy desks on the floor of the Texas House and demand that we take care of all our neighbors, especially the least of these.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah, I love this. Like, where?

[April Ahjoy]

Amen.

[Tim Whitaker]

This is, by the way, not political. He's just reading the words of Jesus and applying them to today's cultural context. This is not Marxism. This isn't socialism. This isn't. It's not one of the isms that people have been brainwashed to think are like, you know, the most demonic things ever. This is a born again Christian, like a Protestant Christian, saying, maybe we should think about the words of Jesus and then apply them to. To how we think about the systems in our society that care for the least of these. And by the way, James is now running for Senate, which I love, and he has huge funding behind him that is all grassroots. He's not taking any AIPAC money. He's spoken out against the genocide of the Palestinians. I'm like, thank you, thank you. Because on a minor side note, I'm so sick of these Democratic politicians who refuse to talk about the genocide of Palestinians in Gaza. I hate it. Like, guys, this is not. We're not asking for too much. We're simply asking for you to say that our tax dollars should not bomb children in Gaza like that. That should not be a political statement. It shouldn't be a controversial statement. But for some reason, including for many Democrats, it's like, well, we can't say that because, you know, it's crazy. So I really like James. Like I said, I've had the pleasure of interviewing him twice on the podcast. You can check it out on the New evangelicals podcast, on YouTube and podcast feeds. But I think he's wonderful. I think that clip is absolutely on the money. It flies in the face of Christian nationalism. It completely rejects the Christian nationalist ideals and what they advocate in policy. And it says, well, why don't we just look at the red Letters and then create a society in partnership with our other non Christian neighbors accordingly. So I think it's really powerful.

[April Ahjoy]

I think James Talarico is doing a really great job because I'm of the mind that in order to fight Christian nationalism, you need Christians in that sphere using the same book that so many Christian nationalists thinks justify their cruelty. Use that book against them. Especially when it's your own belief system too. Because it is. It's also our book. Totally also our book.

[Tim Whitaker]

This is why we say, right. That the Bible can be used as a tool for liberation or a weapon of oppression. Right. And we can look back through America's history and see how MLK used the Bible and how Bob Jones and Jerry Falwell used the Bible. So I went through all that.

[April Ahjoy]

Yeah. Also just want to say this is also good news. It's older news, but to the marijuana thing. Joe Biden, right before he left office earlier this year, did he got. He forgave. There's an actual word.

[Tim Whitaker]

Pardoned.

[April Ahjoy]

Yeah. But it wasn't pardoned. It was like clemency. Clemency. Clemency. Yeah. To almost 2500 people who were incarcerated for marijuana. Non violent drug cases.

[Tim Whitaker]

Love that. But good.

[April Ahjoy]

But many of them had already spent like years and years for something that they should not have been in prison form. But 100%. So he did do that. So there's, there's some, something good he did right before he left office. Okay. I have, I have one more Christian woman, she's a minister that I want to point out because they're all. Because women can be ministers and pastors too.

[Tim Whitaker]

Hell yeah.

[April Ahjoy]

Before the reformed bros come in, be like, no, they can't. This is Ryan, Ger and Henry. She is on TikTok and Instagram. And this kind of goes back to what we were talking about earlier about the, the, the black men that are lynched have been lynched, historically speaking. And just kind of. She gives a really good historical summary of why even when officials rule things a suicide, there's reason to be skeptical based on this history. So we can watch this.

[United Airlines Customer]

Check it out for two people found hanging on a tree yesterday. Let's talk about it. The last recorded lynching in the United states was from 1981, points out Jill Colleen Jefferson, the founder and lawyer at Julian. Lynchings never stopped in the United States. Lynchings never stopped in Mississippi. She goes on to say, the evil bastards just stopped taking photographs and passing it around like they were baseball cards. There's a pattern, Jefferson says, to how these hangings are investigated. They almost immediately deem it a suicide and the crime scene is not preserved. We don't know yet what happened to this young black man and this middle aged man who's experiencing homelessness. The NAACP posted an Instagram post and the caption was really striking. It said, while the internal reports state that there has been no foul play, would you please excuse our skepticism because our people haven't historically hung ourselves from trees. I want to offer you this passage from James Cone's book, the Cross and the Lynching Tree. It says, the cross and the lynching tree. They interpret each other. Both were public spectacles, shameful events, punishments used and reserved for the most despised people in society. Jesus didn't die a gentle death like Socrates, his cup of hemlock. Rather, Jesus died like a lynched black man or a common criminal in torment on the tree of shame. And the crowds cry, crucify him. Crucify him. Almost echoing the mobs screaming, lynch him. Lynch him. Jesus's final cry of abandonment from the cross, my God, my God, why have you forsaken me? Was similar to Sam Hose's final cry, oh my God, my Jesus. In each case, it was a cruel, agonizing and contemptible death. This is what we need to be talking about.

[Tim Whitaker]

Powerful. And she's right. The Cross and the Lynching Tree, by the way, by James cone, is a very, it's a must read. Like, if you haven't read it yet, as a Christian, you need to read that book a hundred percent. It will, it will change how you think about a lot of things when it comes to how you were taught about Christianity and the cross and Christ. It's very powerful. Wow, that's a powerful two minutes. She's great. She's wonderful.

[April Ahjoy]

Yeah, she makes a lot of great videos like that. So I definitely recommend following her.

[Melinda Hale]

Yeah.

[April Ahjoy]

So, yeah, we just wanted to highlight a few Christians in America that are actually doing really good work and there's plenty more. Like we barely, we barely scratched the surface on, you know, there. I would say like progressive Christians or just Christians who are standing up against Christian nationalism are just not as loud as. Because I mean, at the end of the day, the majority of especially white Christians in America are conservative in some way. So they have, it does seem like they have more numbers and they're also really loud and they have, you know, Fox News and they have the government right now. So it can seem overwhelming. But there are a lot of us, a lot of us that are fighting the good fight and there is always hope.

[Tim Whitaker]

We don't look, as much as we cover things that are discouraging, we want you to know that you're not alone in that and that there are people maybe not as out there in the limelight as we would like, but there are people out there doing great and important work. So standing up for their neighbors on the lines of protest, standing up to ice, doing what they can in their communities, preaching faith over fear, talking about why people, when they see, you know, a black man who supposedly hung himself, are really skeptical of that. Right? All these things are happening all the time. Just because you don't see them doesn't mean that they aren't happening. And honestly, I hope that these clips encourage you to get more involved in your little Hokkiem community. Like, get involved in your schools. Raise empathetic and loving kids who are justice centered and want to advocate for their neighbors. Do that work. We need people in their local towns looking out for ICE and talking to their mayors and their city officials saying, what's the plan here? Like, what do we do? How can we get involved? How can we protect the people that our government is targeting? So this is an all hands on deck situation and community engagement and building robust small communities around the US that are working together in person. We need that to happen all over the place. Like, it's just. It's a really important tool to fight and resist Christian nationalism non violently. So, you know, we wanted to share these clips because you're not alone. We see it, we think about it too, and there are people out there doing really good work.

[Melinda Hale]

Amen.

[April Ahjoy]

Amen.

[Tim Whitaker]

All right, well, should we get to our favorite segment and do some more fun news?

[April Ahjoy]

Yes, please, Christian.

[Tim Whitaker]

This one's short and sweet.

[April Ahjoy]

Yes, it is. Which is great questions from it.

[Tim Whitaker]

Which is great because we're going to be under an hour this episode. If we continue on this path, it will be under an hour. So we can do it.

[April Ahjoy]

Look at us.

[Tim Whitaker]

Should I just play it with no context and we can talk about it?

[April Ahjoy]

Sure, let's just play it.

[Tim Whitaker]

It's 10 seconds. Here we go.

[April Ahjoy]

Yep.

[Tim Whitaker]

Sandra Bullock and Reba McIntyre will go to prison in Jesus name. Amen.

[Christian]

That's it.

[April Ahjoy]

Okay.

[Christian]

That's the tweet.

[April Ahjoy]

I have so many questions. I literally googled Sandra Bullock and Reva McIntyre to be like, is there some kind of feud happening? I don't know. I did go to this man's profile. He has like 23,000 followers on Instagram. This showed up organically on my feed, on my Reels feed. I believe I built this algorithm, brick by brick, it's pretty much only weird Christian beep at this point.

[Tim Whitaker]

I've got some doozies too, where I'm like, how do I end up on this side of Instagram?

[April Ahjoy]

I know it's, it's totally messed up, but this guy, he seems to be not. He is not satire. Every single one of his posts is like a Bible verse or. I don't know, I honest, I just don't understand. I don't know what Sandra Bullock and Reba McIntyre did to.

[Tim Whitaker]

Let's play it one more time and maybe, maybe we missed something. Here we go.

[April Ahjoy]

Okay.

[Tim Whitaker]

Sandra Bullock and Reba McIntyre will go to prison in Jesus name. Amen. Now the thing is, he looks, he's, he's deadly serious. Like if you're watching this on YouTube with us, this guy, he's not smirking. He is like, no, this is going to happen. This is going to happen. Maybe, I don't know, maybe he has it. Maybe he has an ax to grind with them. Maybe he had like crushes on them as a teenage boy and is mad that they never worked out. I don't know. But it's, it's a weird combo, April. Like, it's, it's so weird. It's a weird combo.

[April Ahjoy]

It is odd. It's funny too because there's some, there's some Christians in the comments. I mean, I think most people also got served this like that are. That would not agree and are just very confused. Everybody's confused. Nobody understands what's happening. But there are a few Christians that are completely ignoring the Sandra Bullock thing and are just like, what did Reba do? Not Reba. Yeah, I literally looked in the comments. I'm like, is he going to explain himself at all? It doesn't know. It doesn't look there a caption. Great question. Let's see.

[Tim Whitaker]

And how many, how many likes does that video have and how many reshares?

[April Ahjoy]

There's no, let's see, no caption at all.

[Tim Whitaker]

Okay.

[April Ahjoy]

There's no caption.

[Tim Whitaker]

So this man just walking down the street has this thought record towards it and then hit post with no context.

[April Ahjoy]

Uh huh. You know what, I don't know if I'll be able to find how many views it has because it was five weeks ago and in order to see the views, I think I have to. Can I see the views on just the video or do I have to actually go to his feed, see the views? Yeah.

[Tim Whitaker]

Does it say how many likes it has?

[April Ahjoy]

Almost 7,000 likes though.

[James Talarico]

What?

[Tim Whitaker]

7,000 people saw that and go, yeah, that's a like for me, bro.

[April Ahjoy]

In Jesus name, amen.

[Tim Whitaker]

I declare faith over fear. We declare it honestly.

[April Ahjoy]

You know what? Can I just try something, too?

[Tim Whitaker]

Go ahead.

[April Ahjoy]

Donald Trump and Stephen Miller will go to prison. In Jesus name, Amen.

[Tim Whitaker]

Amen. I'm in full agreement with that.

[April Ahjoy]

May it be so right for the crimes they're committing.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. 100%.

[April Ahjoy]

Not for just no reason. I don't know what Reba and Sandra did, but, you know.

[Tim Whitaker]

Okay, your Internet's about to freeze up again, so before it does, we should end this. We should end the show for today.

[April Ahjoy]

Great. Yeah, let's get out while we can.

[Tim Whitaker]

Friends, thanks for being here, truly. We love doing this work. Hopefully you feel a little more encouraged. Hey, if you're looking for a community to join, check out TNE Connect, the New Evangelicals. We have our own private community that's off of the Meta algorithm. It's its own thing. It's totally free. Thenewevangelicals.com connect we'll be back here on Thursday with another pre record because I'll be out of town for theology beer camp. But have a great week, and we'll talk to you all later. See ya.

[April Ahjoy]

Bye.