The Tim & April Show (The New Evangelicals) - Episode 58 Summary
Date: October 28, 2025
Title: "Here's How Christian Nationalism Leads to Defending Slavery"
Overview
In this thought-provoking episode, Tim Whitaker and April Ajjoy of The Tim & April Show, part of The New Evangelicals network, dissect how contemporary Christian Nationalist ideology leads to attempts at justifying slavery, using a viral video by Joshua Hames (a right-wing Christian commentator with strong ties to figures like Doug Wilson and Pete Hegseth) as their case study. Through real-time reactions, theological critique, and an exploration of how biblical literalism is selectively applied, Tim and April argue that such logic sows the seeds for dangerous political and ethical positions in America today. The episode also highlights the tactic overlap and contradictions in the arguments of Christian Nationalists when it comes to slavery, gender roles, and sexuality.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. The Viral Clip & Fundamentalist Claims
Timestamps: [03:38]-[05:03]
-
Tim introduces a viral clip of Joshua Hames asserting:
“The institution of slavery is not inherently evil... It is not inherently evil to own another human being... every Christian should be able to defend what I just said.” (Joshua Hames, [03:47])
-
Joshua Hames’ argument hinges on two claims:
- The Bible does not condemn slavery as inherently sinful.
- Christians, therefore, must not call slavery inherently sinful.
-
Tim and April react with genuine discomfort and concern, noting the directness of Hames' message and its alignment with Christian Nationalist logic.
2. Roots & Connections: Why This Isn't Fringe
Timestamps: [02:00]-[02:25]
- Joshua Hames is not a fringe actor; he is tied to mainstream conservative institutions and individuals, including Doug Wilson (prominent Christian Nationalist) and Pete Hegseth (government official).
- Tim emphasizes that the views expressed are influencing significant circles in American Christianity and policy.
3. Selective Literalism & The Contradiction Trap
Timestamps: [06:11]-[10:08], [13:13]-[16:10]
-
Hames uses literal Bible readings on slavery, but, as Tim and April point out, he does NOT advocate for the re-institution of slavery, showing a contradiction between his professed hermeneutic and his instincts.
-
April:
“They use the Bible as a cover for their own bigotry... They say ‘I’m not saying slavery was good, but the Bible…’ It’s a weird world to live in.” ([08:49])
-
Tim:
“Even he knows that slavery shouldn't be an institutional thing intuitively. But because of his dogmatic position on the Bible, he’s forced to acknowledge what is there…”
-
Notable Quote:
“No one actually, even people who say they are biblical literalists, actually takes the whole Bible literally... It would be impossible to.” (April, [16:10])
4. Historical Revisionism & Whitewashed Christian History
Timestamps: [16:45]-[21:54]
- Tim and April challenge Hames' historical narrative:
- “It wasn’t white Christians who were like ‘Hey guys, we got this wrong.’ It was Black folks. It was secular folks. It was some white Christians, but they were the minority.” (Tim, [18:41])
- April references the “Slave Bibles” and Jamar Tisby’s scholarship, noting:
“The gospel that [white southerners] taught to enslaved people could save their souls but not break their chains.” ([21:34])
5. Slippery Slope: Literalism & Modern Extremes
Timestamps: [31:16]-[32:53]
- April:
“If you're going to take the Bible literally and you want a Christian nation, ... there are certain verses you can’t argue away.”
- Tim:
“This is what they want to do in America and make everyone submit to it based on their Christian supremacist ideals that actually fall in on themselves logically once you start examining them.”
6. Doug Wilson’s ‘No Problem Passages’ Argument
Timestamps: [35:47]-[54:00]
-
Doug Wilson, quoted by Hames as a model, argues Christians should never have “problem passages” in the Bible.
“Once the exegesis is done, I’m not going to back off of what it [the Bible] teaches a millimeter.” (Doug Wilson clip, [53:43])
-
Tim calls out the logical endpoint:
“Okay, then just say slavery is fine... Since it’s in the Bible, we should bring it back wholesale.”
-
April:
“He’s telling you to basically ignore your conscience... That’s the Holy Spirit guiding you and convicting you.” ([56:59])
7. Double Standard: Slavery vs. Homosexuality
Timestamps: [36:13]-[42:35], [67:27]-[68:08]
-
Both Tim and April repeatedly note that these ultra-conservative interpreters contextualize slavery away, but refuse to do so regarding homosexuality or gender issues.
-
Tim:
“Notice the bait and switch. ...What he means is, because how they interpret the Bible prohibits it. That’s the bait and switch.” ([40:45])
-
April:
“It’s also just the audacity... of these four white men, five, if you include Josh, that are now debating the rights of other people... They just gain power. They have nothing to lose with this ideology.” ([48:42])
8. Political Implications: Christian Nationalism in Action
Timestamps: [50:31]-[76:59]
- Tim connects these arguments to the growing Christian Nationalist influence in American politics, noting the alarming trajectory:
“They are seeding the foundation for bringing back forms of slavery that benefit them... That’s how this stuff works.”
- April draws parallels to contemporary reactions to social change (e.g., Colin Kaepernick’s protest):
“When does an enslaved person... fight for their liberation? ...Doug really softwashes slavery big time.”
9. Final Thoughts: Cherry-Picking, Authority & Biblical Truth
Timestamps: [58:55]-[61:51]
- Both hosts stress that everyone cherry-picks the Bible, but the danger comes in pretending only YOUR view is the correct or “objective” biblical truth.
- Notable Quote:
“There is no one biblical truth in the Bible... You could have people on both sides of the Civil War using the Bible to justify their side.” (April, [58:55])
- Tim:
“The only reason the Bible has authority is because we as humans give it authority... It’s the same reason why many of us do not see the Quran as authoritative while others do.” ([54:49])
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
- “Christian Nationalism leads directly to Christian Supremacy, and that's how you get justifications for things like slavery.”
(Tim, [09:01]) - Joshua Hames:
“Every Christian should affirm what I just said [defending slavery], and not only affirm it, every Christian in today’s society should be able to defend what I just said.” ([03:47])
- Doug Wilson:
“If you get to simply arbitrarily wave your hand and say, well, we don’t have to take those parts of the Bible seriously because slavery—right?” ([39:56])
- April:
“These men are debating the rights of others because when they get their way, they don’t lose any rights.” ([49:00])
- Tim:
“Owning other human beings is wrong. And while I agree with Joshua [Hames] it’s not unbiblical, all the more reason to think about how we take the Bible, what we do with it.” ([83:18])
Timestamps for Key Segments
- Introduction & Viral Video Context: [00:22] – [04:13]
- Literalism & Slavery Debate: [04:13] – [16:10]
- Historical Critique & The Whitewashing of Christian Abolition: [16:45] – [21:54]
- Selective Literalism, Cherry-Picking & Double Standards: [31:16] – [54:49]
- Christian Nationalism’s Political Ramifications: [50:31] – [76:59]
- Final Reflections on Authority & Interpretation: [58:55] – [61:51]
- Concluding Thoughts: [83:16] – [84:59]
Conclusion
This episode offers a sobering analysis of how foundational Christian Nationalist and literalist approaches to the Bible open the doors to justifying historical injustices (like slavery) and undermining basic human rights. Tim and April skillfully highlight the internal inconsistencies and real-world dangers of such ideology, urging listeners to reject dogmatic authoritarian readings and instead embrace a faith rooted in justice, compassion, and the teachings of Jesus.
For Listeners:
This is an essential listen for anyone concerned about faith, politics, biblical authority, and the future of American Christianity.