61. Blue Wave Sends Message to Trump: Americans Don't Like Being Dumped on

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Blue Wave Sends Message to Trump: Americans Don't Like Being Dumped On"

The Tim & April Show – The New Evangelicals | Episode 61 | November 7, 2025

Hosts: Tim Whitaker & April Ajoy
Guest: Maurice Mitchell (National Director, Working Families Party)
Theme: Explores faith, politics, and culture from a post-evangelical, justice-centered Christian perspective, with a focus on the political "blue wave" in the 2025 elections.

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Episode Overview

This episode celebrates the recent “blue wave” in the 2025 elections, analyses the significance for American democracy and Christian Nationalism, and dives into the cultural and political implications of this shift. Tim and April approach the subject from a progressive Christian lens, critiquing both far-right MAGA rhetoric and milquetoast Democratic establishment politics. They are joined by Maurice Mitchell from the Working Families Party, who discusses grassroots organizing and coalition-building. The episode also spotlights right-wing backlash, particularly Islamophobia and misogyny, following the historic win of Zoran Mamdani as New York City mayor.

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1. Celebration of the 2025 "Blue Wave"

[03:00–13:36]

• Celebratory Mood: Both hosts open with light-hearted banter and a tongue-in-cheek “party” to toast the blue wave, noting the sense of relief at election outcomes bucking MAGA expectations.
  • Quote: "Enjoy the wind, friends. Soak it in. Feel relieved." — Tim [01:49]
  • Comically struggle to open a bottle of champagne (“I’ve never opened a bottle of champagne in my life. I’m scared of the pop.” — Tim [03:37])
• Significant Wins:
  • New York City mayoral race: Progressive Zoran Mamdani wins “handily”—a major upset against Cuomo despite establishment and billionaire backing.
  • “Several seats were flipped” in typically conservative areas like Mississippi, breaking the Republican supermajority.
  • “Democrats swept this election 100%.” — April [10:58]
• Personal Reflections: Both hosts, formerly embedded in Christian Nationalist circles, reflect on the meaning of the wins as pushback against Trumpism and anti-immigrant policies.
  • “A good sign that people are rejecting... the ICE raids... the propaganda, the hatred of one's own neighbor.” — Tim [07:26]

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2. Context and Cautions—"The Work Is Just Beginning"

[11:06–14:10]

• Long-Term Perspective: Hosts temper the celebration by emphasizing entrenched Christian Nationalist networks.
  • “You’re not going to undo that with one election... The Christian nationalists have embedded themselves in our government for decades.” — Tim [11:29]
• Democratic Party Fatigue: Tim expresses disillusionment with Democratic leadership and calls for building alternative coalitions:
  • “I’m over them. I’m done with the Democratic Party. So many people I thought would endorse Mamdani did not. ... Establishment Dems are very much bought off, just like many MAGA Republicans are.” — Tim [11:54]
• Populism and Grassroots Change:
  • Mamdani’s victory attributed to authentic, grassroots populism, not billionaire or AIPAC backing.
  • “He’s for the people, by the people”—Notably, Mamdani refused to pander to pro-Israel interests in debate.

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3. The Right-Wing/MAGA Backlash

[14:42–34:43]

• Trump’s “Great Gatsby” Party: Contrasted against economic hardship for everyday Americans.
  • “It’s this disconnect between the top and your everyday American people. The battle really is top and bottom, not left and right.” — April [52:40]
• Mike Johnson’s Spin (Speaker of the House):
  • Clips from Johnson frame the GOP as champions of the people; hosts debunk this as gaslighting given ongoing shutdowns and SNAP benefit cuts.
  • “The fact that Mike Johnson has the caucasity to say this is a government that’s working for the American people is baffling.” — Tim [23:44]
• Deliberate Destabilization:
  • Explains that undermining government programs and structures (“SNAP benefits debacle is intentional”) is a feature, not a bug, of Christian nationalist efforts.
  • “They want the government to be dismantled so they can remake it in the image of white Christian nationalism.” — Tim [28:53]
  • “[Project 2025], the SNAP benefits debacle is intentional.” — Tim [28:53]
• Voter Suppression/Gerrymandering Fears:
  • Trump and right-wingers respond with calls to eliminate mail-in voting and intensify voter ID laws, indicating a focus on suppressing turnout.
  • “They’re already planting those seeds of gerrymandering, voter suppression.” — April [32:11]

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4. Islamophobia and Misogyny in the Right-Wing “Crash Out”

[33:25–47:12]

• Islamophobic Panic about Mamdani:
  • Numerous right-wing personalities describe Mamdani as a threat, painting his historic win as evidence of “Sharia law” or a “death certificate” for NYC.
  • “If you're going to pin 9/11 on Zoran Mamdani, I hope you’re ready to pin January 6th on your white evangelical pastor. That’s how stupid you sound.” — Tim [39:28]
• Projection:
  • The hosts call out projection—right-wing Christian nationalists accuse Mamdani and progressive Muslims of anti-LGBTQ agendas while advocating for similar repression themselves.
  • “It’s all projection, projection, projection. ... They are the very thing they’re critiquing.” — Tim [36:41]
• Misogyny—Calls to End Women's Suffrage:
  • Several right-wing influencers blame women for Democratic victories, openly discussing repeal of the 19th Amendment.
  • “Eventually you’ll agree with us that it’s time to repeal the 19th amendment and it may be sooner rather than later.” — Quoting right-wing commentator [46:24]
  • “The Overton window has moved so far right that their current the right wing is currently debating if a holocaust denying Nick Fuentes...should have a platform inside the GOP.” — Tim [46:24]

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5. Hopeful Alternative—Interview: Maurice Mitchell, Working Families Party

[61:32–82:43]

• Introduction to Maurice Mitchell:
  • “I’m just a working class guy who grew up outside of New York City...I learned the value of hard work, of unions, and I wanted to fight for people like my parents.” — Maurice [62:24]
• Why the Working Families Party?
  • Formed as a response to corporate capture of the Democratic party (NAFTA, 1994 crime bill, welfare reform); rooted in labor, community, and economic justice.
  • “The Republican Party has one master: that crazy guy [Trump] and billionaires. The Democratic Party has two masters: sometimes the people, but often oligarchs.” — Maurice [62:54]
  • Not “just about fighting the horrible stuff...They want something to fight for.”
• Strategy – Building Power Outside the Duopoly:
  • Fusion voting in NY/CT—can cross-endorse Democratic candidates, giving them leverage.
  • “When you tally all those votes...we can say, hey, if it wasn’t for our voters, you wouldn’t be elected. Let’s talk about the governing.” — Maurice [70:09]
  • Also runs independent candidates when feasible.
• Populism That Delivers:
  • Real populism is about “dignity, economic dignity, affordability, and solidarity for everyday people,” not scapegoating or bigotry.
  • “People are hungry. People do want to believe. They just need something to believe in and a politics not just about fighting the horrible stuff.” — Maurice [67:38]
• Big Picture Takeaways:
  • The win in NYC is part of a national trend: “What’s taking place is actually happening everywhere.”
  • “Most people are clocking that, yes, the Republicans are crazy, but the Democrats are weak. And if my choice is between weak and crazy, those aren’t choices I like.” — Maurice [68:02]

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6. Contrasting Political Styles: Hope vs. Division

[16:17–20:08]

• Zoran Mamdani’s Victory Speech—A New Kind of Leadership:
  • Memorable quote: “We will fight for you, because we are you.” [16:17]
  • Uplifting multicultural references—“Yemeni bodega owners, Mexican abuelas, Senegalese taxi drivers...” [16:17]
  • Democratic hope over MAGA fearmongering: “We chose hope together—hope over tyranny, hope over big money and small ideas, hope over despair.” [17:58]
• Contrast With Trump Rhetoric:
  • “Notice how he addresses all different types of people because he knows NYC is a diverse space....His approach is so different than how MAGA speaks.” — Tim [18:42]

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7. “Weird Christian Shit”: The Car-Prayer Call-In

[85:22–91:38]

• Light Moment:
  • A televangelist promises prayer for a “sanctified car” (won’t play “raunchy music” or have “sex in the back seat”).
  • Tim prank-calls the prayer line, starts to request a Mercedes—and gets prayed for.
  • “If she was gonna ask for money first, that’s what I thought was gonna happen before I prayed. But when she went right into it, I’m like—if she’s sincere, I don’t want to yuck her yum.” — Tim [91:37]
  • April reflects on her own time working for a Christian prayer call center.

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8. Notable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• On celebrating the moment:
  • “Take this as a wind in the sails to our destination of liberation for all. Not as, okay, we can stop now.” — Tim [13:36]
• On the strategy of the Trump regime:
  • “What's happening in our government is not a bug. It is a feature of a white Christian nationalist takeover. Do you understand that?” — Tim [28:53]
• Islamophobia in response to Mamdani:
  • “Americans didn’t elect Mamdani, foreigners did. ... This is grand wizard talking points reimagined and re spoken in 2025 language. That’s all this is.” — Tim [47:12]
• Misogyny and the 19th Amendment:
  • “Repealing the 19th [women’s right to vote] is the moderate position.” — Brian Suave, cited by Tim [46:24]
  • “These people have big platforms.... They are deadly serious, and they're behind the Trump regime.” — Tim [41:07]
• Populism and hope:
  • “People want something to fight for, not just against.” — Maurice [67:38]
  • “People are hungry. People do want to believe. They just need something to believe in..." — Maurice [67:38]
• On Democratic Party shortcomings:
  • “The Democrats are weak. And if my choice is between weak and crazy, those aren’t choices I like.” — Maurice [68:02]
• On right-wing hypocrisy:
  • “It's all projection, projection, projection.... They are the very thing they're critiquing.” — Tim [36:41]
  • “Every war has been started by someone with a penis.” — April [43:52]

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Key Timestamps

• [03:00] – Hosts celebrate election results and Zoran Mamdani’s victory
• [11:06] – Discussion: Blue wave as a sign, but just the beginning
• [16:17] – Mamdani’s victory speech montage
• [23:28] – Mike Johnson’s GOP talking points (and hosts’ real-time fact checks)
• [28:53] – Deep dive: Christian nationalism’s plan to dismantle government
• [33:25] – Islamophobic and misogynistic right-wing backlash to Mamdani’s win
• [41:14] – Right-wing extremist calls to repeal the 19th amendment
• [61:32] – Interview with Maurice Mitchell (Working Families Party)
• [85:31] – “Weird Christian Shit”: Call-in to car prayer line

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Conclusion — What Does It All Mean?

The episode closes with a sense of celebration—yes, progressive and common-sense expertise won important ground, but the struggle is far from over. Tim and April's tone is both hopeful and grounded, warning against both complacency (“the work is just beginning”) and cynicism (“people want something to fight for, not just against”). Maurice Mitchell’s appearance adds tactical nuance and community-grounded optimism for those tired of being forced to choose between “weak” establishment Democrats and “crazy” MAGA. The show also does not shy from lampooning or sharply critiquing the right’s Islamophobic and misogynistic panic in the face of change.

Final Message:
The struggle for justice, dignity, and compassion must continue, both within and outside America’s entrenched political parties. Despite backlash, diverse coalitions, grassroots populism, and honest conversations show a “better path forward” is possible.

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For Listeners Who Haven’t Heard the Episode:
This summary offers a full sense of the hosts' humor and perspective, a clear breakdown of key news, and an authentic insight into both hope and challenge at the intersection of faith and politics in 2025’s tumultuous and historic landscape.

Transcript

[Melinda Hale]

Hey, everyone, Melinda Hale here, the executive director of the New Evangelicals. I just want to take a moment to say thank you for listening to the Tim and April Show. This show and everything that we do at the New Evangelicals exists because of people like you. We can't do any of this without your support. Every conversation you hear, every resource we create, every piece of educational content that helps people rethink faith through the lens of love and justice is all made possible through our community. Now, if you believe in what we're building, a faith that unites instead of divides, I'd love to invite you to become a monthly supporter. Even just $5 a month helps us to continue to bring you shows like this one, expand our educational tools and create spaces for honest, hope filled conversations. You can join us by going to thenewevangelicals.com support and becoming a monthly donor. Thanks for being a part of this movement and for building a better path forward together.

[April Ajoy]

You're listening to a new Evangelicals production, the Tim and April show, where we unravel faith, politics and culture.

[Tim Whitaker]

Mmm. It's a good day. I'm feeling the energy. How about you, April? How you feeling?

[Maurice Mitchell]

Pumped.

[Tim Whitaker]

Me too.

[Maurice Mitchell]

Wait for it.

[Caller or Listener]

Nothing bad can happen. It can only good happen.

[Tim Whitaker]

Oh, yeah. Feel the energy. Say it with me. Mom. Donnie.

[Caller or Listener]

Mom.

[Tim Whitaker]

Donnie. Oh, I'm feeling good.

[Maurice Mitchell]

Woo.

[Tim Whitaker]

We're going again.

[April Ajoy]

It's a party.

[Maurice Mitchell]

It's a party.

[Tim Whitaker]

Enjoy the wind, friends. Soak it in. Feel relieved.

[April Ajoy]

Ah, we're so white.

[Tim Whitaker]

We are. I will say I'm proud of myself for whipping that bad boy up in like five minutes.

[April Ajoy]

You did great. You did great. I know. Tim made that song right before we went on.

[Tim Whitaker]

I'm in garage band, just like grabbing loops wherever I can. Like, okay, let's just stick these together. And then you were like.

[April Ajoy]

It was Trump's line.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah, it was your idea. Yeah. Well, welcome to the show, friends. First time.

[April Ajoy]

Yeah. They're like, what is this? No introduction, just nothing.

[Tim Whitaker]

What? Imagine the pac, the podcast audience. Like, what the hell just happened to my show?

[April Ajoy]

Yeah, we were attempting to dance while sitting for those listening.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah, it kind of. It kind of worked. It kind of worked. Are we live on substack? I'm looking for the live here.

[Maurice Mitchell]

Hopefully we are.

[Tim Whitaker]

Okay. Anyway, friends, welcome into the Tim April show. I am Tim Whitaker.

[April Ajoy]

And I am April Ajoy. And today we are celebrating a blue wave that happened on Tuesday. You know, we gotta celebrate the wins when we get them.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yep.

[April Ajoy]

And we got some pretty big wins on Tuesday.

[Tim Whitaker]

Actually, we did Okay. I bought alcohol for the first time, maybe ever, because, you know, I'm a good Christian. April, we don't buy alcohol. But I've never opened a bottle.

[April Ajoy]

Not the first time because you had alcohol. One time we watched one of the debates live on a show.

[Maurice Mitchell]

You're right.

[Tim Whitaker]

You're right. Well, I've never opened alcohol. I never opened a bottle of champagne in my life. You know why? I'm scared of the pop.

[Maurice Mitchell]

I.

[Tim Whitaker]

Okay, this is. This is a very embarrassing story. I'm going to tell you in the audience that no one really knows, okay? And I'm a very anxious person deep down. Like, I'm a type 6 on the Enneagram Fear, you know, it's like a core value of mine. When I was a kid, a balloon popped in my face and it scared the hell out of me. And ever since then, balloons or things that would pop just. They give me anxiety.

[April Ajoy]

Okay.

[Tim Whitaker]

To this day, that's.

[April Ajoy]

That's fair. I mean, we all have those things that happen in our life.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yep. That's one of mine. Should I. Should I not open this bottle? I mean, someone says I shouldn't open the bottle in the office. Is this a bad idea?

[April Ajoy]

I mean, honestly, I've never opened a bottle of champagne either. People are telling me, is this the dangerous thing?

[Tim Whitaker]

Oh, boy. Oh, thank you.

[April Ajoy]

From your computer.

[Tim Whitaker]

I don't know if I should do this. I knew I should open this before. I can't get the wrapper off.

[April Ajoy]

You need a backup away from your computer.

[Tim Whitaker]

Maybe this is a sign from God. I shouldn't do this.

[April Ajoy]

Because if you shake it. If you shook it, it'll spray.

[Tim Whitaker]

I don't think I did. I don't think I did. I'm a little scared.

[April Ajoy]

Famous last word. No, don't shake it. They're saying, shake it. Don't do that.

[Tim Whitaker]

I'm a little. I don't know if I should do that. I'm freaked out.

[Maurice Mitchell]

I'm not gonna lie.

[Tim Whitaker]

I am really anxious.

[April Ajoy]

I don't know if we're on a live Tim. So you gotta either do it or move on.

[Tim Whitaker]

Can you give me a second? Okay. Can I. Can I have a minute here to compose myself?

[Maurice Mitchell]

April?

[Tim Whitaker]

Okay, I'm. I'm. I'm a little concerned.

[April Ajoy]

Pre poured my celebratory drink on a Thursday afternoon.

[Tim Whitaker]

Okay, I'm gonna try and. I'm gonna try and control the pop. Can I do that?

[April Ajoy]

We can't even see it. Well, back up so we can see you.

[Tim Whitaker]

I'm scared to death. This looks.

[April Ajoy]

Turn it away from the computer. Oh, my gosh. You're such noobs.

[Tim Whitaker]

Oh. Okay, I got it. I did it.

[April Ajoy]

Oh, that was. Good job.

[Tim Whitaker]

Thank you. Thank you. I will now enjoy my.

[April Ajoy]

I heard the plop.

[Tim Whitaker]

Okay. My celebratory. Hear that? Hear that, audience? Oh, yeah. Fresh. Oh, drip some. Okay, well, cheers. Cheers to a blue wave, everyone, as.

[April Ajoy]

I drink my red drink.

[Tim Whitaker]

Well, that was uneventful. Nothing broke. What if I drank this whole bottle? Okay, we have to get back to the show. We have so much work to do. I'm so sorry. Friends, if you're just joining in on YouTube, please make sure to give this stream a like and subscribe to the channel. We go live. Wow, that is strong for me. We go live every Thursday at 12:00 Eastern. If you're watching on Substack, welcome. We have partnered with Lincoln Square Media to bring this show over to Substack. We are Tim and April. We are two former Christian evangelical fundamentalists who grew up pretty Christian nationalists. April even wrote an entire book about it called Star Spangled Jesus. And now we do the work of trying to dismantle Christian nationalism and help a wider audience understand what is going on behind the scenes that is animating so much of the Trump regime. So we go live on Thursdays right here on substack and on YouTube, and we also release a prerecorded episode every Tuesday. The show is also out on podcasts. You can follow us on Instagram. The Tim and April Show. That's us. It's been a really great week. I will say it was a nice bump. I was. I was worried. So I'm in New Jersey, April, and even though we are historically a blue state, I was still concerned because last. Last election, Trump gained a lot of ground. Like it was. It was a much closer than ever election. So we were not sure how things were gonna swing out. I'm very relieved that we overwhelmingly went blue. That was a good feeling for me. So I definitely feel a sigh of relief. Not because I think that, you know, our new governor is gonna automatically fix every single problem that we have in the state, but it's a good sign that people are rejecting what they're seeing from Trump. They're rejecting, hopefully, the ICE raids. They're the nonstop propaganda, the hatred of one's own neighbor. So that's why I'm. I'm personally a little relieved and feel good about this intention. Yeah.

[April Ajoy]

Personally, yeah. I mean, as. As you should. I mean, you were. New Jersey is not the only state that saw great wins.

[Maurice Mitchell]

Right.

[April Ajoy]

For the Democrats. So probably the biggest win. Well, maybe not the biggest, but I'll say maybe the most publicized election was the New York City mayor race. And Zoran Momdani won pretty handedly. It was not really that close.

[Tim Whitaker]

No, it was great.

[April Ajoy]

And Donald Trump even endorsed Andrew Cuomo, not the Republican.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah, yeah. I don't know why Cuomo would have taken the endorsement, but it is what it is. You know, it is what it is.

[April Ajoy]

Like an odd choice.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah, yeah, exactly. And good news. We are going to be joined by someone from the party that helped get Mamdani elected. Maurice Mitchell, who is the national director for Working Families Party, will be joining us at one o' clock Eastern live on the show to kind of talk about the win, what it means, and also who the heck is the Working Families Party? It's a really cool story, so we'll get into that. So. But yeah, I mean, I'm with you. It was a huge, I think it was a pretty big upset, which again, is shocking because Cuomo has like so many allegations, credible ones, of him sexually abusing women. And that was kind of just, that was, you know, a little, a little discouraging to see, like, other Democrats be like, cuomo's our guy. We just can't stand the idea of a, of a radical who's also a Muslim. So we'll vote for the guy who has credible accusations of sexual assault. And it's like, look, if you're going to do that, you just have no place or no ability ever to critique Trump for his own sexual abuse. Like, you just can't do that. You can't call Trump a sexual abuser and be like, well, Cuomo's our guy. Give me a break. It's ridiculous.

[April Ajoy]

Yeah, well, and a bunch of billionaires came out to support Cuomo. I mean, it felt like all the, Everyone was kind of teaming up to go against Mom, Donnie, even a lot of Democrats, too. So it was, you know, props to him. I was so excited that he won. Also, Virginia governor flipped from the current Republican. The Democrat won in Virginia. There were also a lot of seats. I, I had a friend who ran for a congressional seat in Virginia the last election and lost pretty handedly to the Republican because I think she's in a pretty conservative area. She won this time. And, and that's a story that you're hearing across the nation. And you might notice a lot of MAGA people are trying to downplay this, to say, well, it was only a blue wave because it was all blue states, but that's actually not true.

[Maurice Mitchell]

Right.

[April Ajoy]

Several seats were flipped. I think maybe the most surprising state that I saw where two Democrats won was in Mississippi. Mississippi lost the Republican supermajority because two Democrats won in Republican areas.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah.

[April Ajoy]

In Mississippi.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yep.

[April Ajoy]

So it was definitely a blue wave. Like there's really no way around, like Democrats swept this election 100%.

[Tim Whitaker]

And again, it's encouraging. But also, we can't let up off the gas here. Here's something that we need to be honest about. I don't want to temper or be a Debbie Downer because it is a, it's a huge relief, right, that we had this so called blue wave. It's, it's great. It's a good thing for sure. Two things that we need to keep in mind, friends. Number one, the work is just beginning. The Christian nationalists that have embedded themselves in our government have been working for decades to build networks and coalitions and fundings, funding and propaganda to get people to buy into what they're saying. So you're not going to undo that with one election that is not even a national election. Right. So that's number one. Number two, the Democratic Party. I gotta be honest, April, and you know, I'm just gonna be truthful with you. I'm over them. I'm done with the Democratic Party. The way that, that, that so many people that I thought would easily endorse Mamdani did not or, or would, you know, refuse to endorse him or kind of side sidestep the issue. Forget it, dude. Forget it. I'm done with these establishment Democrats who are spineless, who did not stand up to Trump. I know the shutdown, I give them credit for that, that, that, that, that they're holding. But my gosh, I'm just, I'm over it. Like, these establishment Dems in many ways when it comes to capitalism and the corporatocracy are very much bought off. Just like how many maggot Republicans are and many conservatives are. And we absolutely need to go in a different direction, period. There is something, and look, we've been very clear. I am never going to be a fan of Trump. I reject what Trump is doing. But there's something about the language he used that people bought into that was very populist. Now, he's not a populist, he's a billionaire. You know, his cabinet has the most billionaires ever in office. So make no mistake, this is not a man of the people. This is a man who exploits the people. But there is something about, you know, the, hey, I. I see what's happening. Politics are corrupt. There is a lot of. Of. Of corporate interest in politics. I'm. I'm fighting for you. That kind of rhetoric we have to get into and then actually deliver on those things. And I think that's why Mamdani won, because he was very clear. He's not taking APAC money. He's not taking billionaire money. He's for the people, by the people. One of the questions that he was asked during the early debate, this is before, you know, things really got narrowed down. One of the questions was, where would you go? Where would your first trip be as mayor in New York City? And everyone said, Israel. And he said, I wouldn't go anywhere. I'm here to work for the New York. The people of New York. That's the right answer. That's the right answer.

[April Ajoy]

He got a lot of criticism for that answer.

[Tim Whitaker]

A ton. A ton. But you know what? The people spoke. The people spoke. So I'm definitely excited, for sure. But, friends, we have a lot of work to do. That's why Lincoln Square is doing their work. That's why the New Evangelicals, the show that produces the Tim April show, is doing their part to be part of the change. We have a lot of work to do. So take this as a wind in the sails to our destination of liberation for all. And not as, okay, we can stop now. We can dock for a few weeks and relax. No, absolutely not. Now's the time to push hard. Yeah.

[April Ajoy]

And I do think that is very true. This does not mean the fight is over by any means, because look who's still controlling the federal government right now. But I do think we should celebrate and take our wins where we can get them. And I do think, if anything, I'm very encouraged, because obviously, I don't believe this blue wave, as you said, is because people just love Democrats. It's because people are tired of Donald Trump and the MAGA movement and their inhumane policies and skyrocketing prices and tariffs and.

[Maurice Mitchell]

That's right.

[April Ajoy]

And, you know, wars. Even though he's claiming he stopped all these wars, he's also involving himself. There's a lot. There's just a lot. He's doing a lot. We are going to get into this weird Great Gatsby party that he threw over this past weekend, which right now feels like an eternity ago, and it wasn't. Hasn't even been a week. So we're going to get into all that. Do you want to play a clip from Donnie's speech?

[Tim Whitaker]

I Have a few clips here. I just think it's worth. I just pulled a few clips. I mean there's no intention behind them. Just want you all to hear how he speak. How he speaks. And I just want to kind of compare and contrast. Oh, that's the wrong. Which one is that?

[Maurice Mitchell]

We'll get to that later.

[April Ajoy]

Do the maga crash out.

[Tim Whitaker]

Oh, you know, we. We have a few super chats. Let's read those real quick. We always read Super Chats live on the air as much as we can. Super chats help make this show possible. Thank you so much. So the first one is from Stevie Clown. Love the work you both do. April's book is such a breath of restorative air. To those 57. To this 57 year old who begun deconstructing my faith in 2002. It's so good to see your generation speaking up. Thank you, Stevie Clown, for the super chat.

[April Ajoy]

Thank you for reading a book too. That's great.

[Tim Whitaker]

For sure. Justine Bailey, a celebrity super chat. A celebr. A celebr. Celebratory. Super chat, not celebrity. I'm already drunk off champagne. Keep up the good work, Tim and April. And then from Deanna, much so excited about it, the election results. Heading to training this weekend to launch my campaign for in our red area. This was the boost I needed. Congratulations, Deanna. I love to hear that. Okay, look, just a few clips. Two and a half minute little montage just from. From mom Dominique taking the victory lap. Here's how he, he, he spoke. Think about this compared to how Trump speaks.

[Zoran Mamdani (clip)]

Fingers bruised from lifting boxes on the warehouse floor. Palms calloused from delivery by candle bars. Knuckles scarred with kitchen burns. These are not hands that have been allowed to hold power. And yet over the last 12 months, you have dared to reach for something greater. You showed that when politics speaks to you without condescension, we can usher in a new era of leadership. We will fight for you because we are you. Or as we say on Steinway, anaminkum wailekum. Thank you. To those so often forgotten by the politics of our city, who made this movement their own. I speak of Yemeni bodega owners and Mexican abuelas, Senegalese taxi drivers and Uzbek nurses, Trinidadian line cooks and Ethiopian aunties. Yes, aunties to every New Yorker in Kensington and Midwood and Hunts Point. Know this. This city is your city and this democracy is yours too.

[Tim Whitaker]

I love this.

[Zoran Mamdani (clip)]

This campaign is about people like Wesley, an 1199 organizer I met outside of Elmhurst Hospital on Thursday night, a New Yorker who lives elsewhere, who commutes two hours each way from Pennsylvania because rent is too expensive in this city. It's about people like the woman I met on the BX 33 years ago who said to me, I used to love New York, but now it's just where I live. And it's about people like Richard, the taxi driver I went on a 15 day hunger strike with outside of City.

[Tim Whitaker]

Hall.

[Zoran Mamdani (clip)]

Who still has to drive his cab seven days a week. My brother. We are in City hall now. More than a million of us stood in our churches, in gymnasiums, in community centers, as we filled in the ledger of democracy. And while we cast our ballots alone, we chose hope together. Hope over tyranny. Hope over big money and small ideas. Hope over despair. We won because New Yorkers allowed themselves to hope that the impossible could be made possible. And we won because we insisted that no longer would politics be something that is done to us. Now it is something that we do.

[Tim Whitaker]

I love it. I love it, I love it. I mean, look, let's not, let's be clear eyed, right? We have to hold or the people of New York City will hold him accountable to his promises. That's, that's how democracy works. It's how our government should work, right? A people, a government for the people, by the people. But his approach is so different than how MAGA speaks. You know, we've watched a lot of Trump speeches on this show, April, a lot. And they're always too many. They're always so divisive. I hate the Democrats, I hate my opponents. They're poisoning the blood of society. Mom Domini's approach is the opposite. Notice how he addresses all different types of people because he knows New York City is a diverse space, right? Full of different cultures and ethnicities, making it work together for a common good. That's what makes democracy and multiculturalism so beautiful, right? It's not always easy. It's not always simple. It can be complicated. But there's something beautiful about we're in this together to make our world or our city a better place than it was before. And there's no reason why this city can't, can't figure out how to make rent more affordable for the average New Yorker. How it can't make groceries more affordable again. Or how it can't provide affordable health care. These are reasonable claims in a city with tons of wealth. So I really enjoyed some of those clips from Mamdani again. We'll see how much power he has to actually get these things done. But I love the. I love the hope.

[April Ajoy]

It's nice to hear, honestly, that that's my biggest question. He's made a lot of promises that I honestly didn't think mayors had the power to do. Yeah, but based on the way MAGA and Trump and all these people are crashing out over his win, makes me go, huh. Maybe he does have the power to do this stuff because they think that he's like, I mean, gosh, they're being so dramatic about.

[Tim Whitaker]

Oh my gosh.

[Maurice Mitchell]

For sure.

[Tim Whitaker]

For sure.

[April Ajoy]

Anyway, I don't know. Do we want to go to the Crash out now? Let's get what I don't know. It says on our thing you have an ad spot.

[Tim Whitaker]

Well, I just want to promote the New Evangelicals, that's all. While we're here, the New Evangelicals is the organization that produces this show. It's a space for folks who are trying to find a better path forward in their faith. We are a non profit organization. I founded it about five years ago now. It's led by Melinda Hale, our Executive Director. If you're looking for a place to land that is inclusive and justice oriented and offers free resources, check out TNE Connect. You can go to the new evangelicals.com connect sign up. It's totally free. We have nothing behind any kind of paywall. So if you're looking for a place to find like minded people who are excited about what happened in New York and New Jersey and Mississippi and not discouraged, that's the place to go. So that's all I wanted to say. Foreign.

[Melinda Hale]

Hey everyone, Melinda Hale here, Executive Director of the New Evangelicals. Thanks for listening to our podcast. I just wanted to take a minute to personally invite you to be a part of our community. At tne, we're creating space for people of faith who care about justice, compassion, and living out the teachings of Jesus in real tangible ways. As a nonprofit organization, not only do we offer thought provoking podcasts, but on our new app and online platform, TNE Connect, we offer free educational resources, additional content, and a space to connect with like minded people for meaningful conversations and encouragement. So if what we're doing has been helpful to you, if you've learned something, felt, seen or been challenged to grow, head over to theneweevangelicals.com to join TNE Connect or make a donation. Your support means the world to us. Thanks for being a part of the movement.

[Courtney (Listener/Donor)]

Hi, My name is Courtney, I live in London, United Kingdom and I am a T and E monthly donor. I'm a domestic abuse survivor and was raised with John MacArthur and purity culture rhetoric. I left my abuser in September 2020, moving from LA to southern Utah. I had been a Cali girl my whole life, so seeing the Christian nationalism and patriarchy present in Utah gave me quite a shock. During that time, I began deconstructing and making sense of my abuse and how my church upbringing and political affiliations contributed to it. It's a painful discovery that I'm still coming to terms with. I've never been a big believer in tithing, but you guys gave me a mission I can get behind. I hate that term now, but I don't know of any other more fitting. The US is on a trajectory mirroring that of 1930s Germany. And if something isn't done soon to circumvent that, I worry what the repercussions would be, not just for the US but for the whole world.

[Tim Whitaker]

I do have the Mike Johnson clip. We could pull that.

[April Ajoy]

Let's just watch the Mike Johnson one.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah, we all, we all like to see Mike Johnson on our screen. Right, friends, let me know how the audio is. Sorry about the technical issues. Still working on it. Here we go.

[Mike Johnson (clip)]

I told him this morning what we've talked about many times and what I've said here before. The President is on the ballot in 2026. President Trump is on the ballot next fall because if we lose, the majority of the Republicans, the common sense people here who are doing the job for the American people, if we lose.

[Tim Whitaker]

Sorry, hold on. I just got to say, the fact that Mike Johnson has the caucasity to really say that, that, that, that this is a government that's working for the American people as they have allowed the shutdown to happen and have intentionally not applied. $6 billion in contingency funds that Congress appropriated for SNAP benefits is baffling to me. I just need to say that to someone that is like the bewilderment on my face. To hear this man say that is. It's, it's.

[Melinda Hale]

Wow.

[April Ajoy]

I do think he is piggybacking off of Donald Trump's video that we didn't pull. He basically said that he's been told that Democrats swept and that Republicans didn't do good because of the government shutdown. He was like, well, most people are blaming Republicans and because Trump was not on the ballot. So that's kind of what he's referencing.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah, okay, we'll keep going.

[Mike Johnson (clip)]

We're able to take over. We've already seen that movie. They will try to end the Trump administration. He Won't have four years, he'll have only two, because they will move to impeach him probably on the first day of the new Congress in January 2027. And they will try to systematically unwind all the important reforms that we've done for the American people to lower cost, to have a better quality of living, on health care, to increase access and quality of care. We are the party that is doing that. And the president needs four years to complete his agenda, not just two. So he is, in a very real sense, on the ballot. He's fiercely committed to us winning. He is going to help. He's offered to do rallies and the teletown halls and all the things he's, he's sent out a huge round of endorsements of incumbents, Republican incumbents, just over the last few days. He is very much engaged, very dialed in, and he understands the stakes. President Trump is on the ballot in 2026.

[April Ajoy]

I, you know, don't send me with a good time, Mike Johnson.

[Tim Whitaker]

No, for real, my, my guy, like, I would love that to happen.

[April Ajoy]

Democrats will win and his campaign impeach on day one. Okay, Yeah.

[Tim Whitaker]

I mean, wait, you're saying that, that the ICE raids are going to stop, that, you know, daycares will stop being invaded by ICE federal agents of pulling daycare workers out? Sign me the hell up for that, Mike. Also, it's really rich hearing him say about how everything is so great under this administration when grocery prices are up year over year, they're higher than they were last year. You can fact check me on that. How the job market just reported like a record amount of losses for the first time, I think since like 2009 was like the biggest gap. It's not like, again, it's just, it's propaganda. I don't know how to say it to, like, people. They're just straight up lying to you and they're looking at the data and then they're firing the people who provide that data.

[April Ajoy]

Can I say I think they've overplayed their hand, by the way. I think they've gone too hard at blaming Democrats for this shutdown. Because it reads, unless you're literally drinking the Kool Aid and are super, super, super maga. If you go to the White House website and the usda.gov website and at the, we showed that banner last week where it says thanks to the Democrat shut. Like, it's so propaganda. E. Like, I was just trying to think if, when I was a Republican and if Obama, like, there was a shutdown and I went to the White House, and at the top, it was like the Republican shutdown. Like, even I would have been like, this feels a little. You know, it kind of takes two to tangle.

[Tim Whitaker]

I have an update.

[Maurice Mitchell]

They. The.

[Tim Whitaker]

The. They made the banner bigger. They made it bigger than last week. Last week it was a small, like, heading on the top. Now it's like, you know, 25 font in your face. By the way, did you see that? What was it? They called it My Safe Space. They remade the White House page until. Until, like, a MySpace parody again, mocking Democrats. Guys, 77 million people still voted for Harris. That's a lot of people who aren't going to be a fan of what you're doing.

[April Ajoy]

Not to mention Trump's approval ratings are. I think they just hit another new low. Like, they're super, super low. It's just wild to me that they can't just look in the mirror and be like, is it me? You know, am I the problem right here?

[Tim Whitaker]

Can you see this? This is coming up right?

[Maurice Mitchell]

There we go.

[April Ajoy]

I don't. Oh, yes. Plunged over SNAP benefits. Yes. And they even said, like, it's been. They've been lying about whether or not they can fund SNAP benefits during the shutdown.

[Tim Whitaker]

They're just lying.

[April Ajoy]

And then they came back out and like, well, we'll partially do it.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah.

[April Ajoy]

But I don't know. They're just. They're just lying. I don't understand how Mike Johnson can sleep at night because he literally just goes out and blatantly lies every day. I mean, so does Trump.

[Tim Whitaker]

But by the way, there's a fantastic article that just came out by Matthew Taylor, a good friend of the show, and Bradley Onici to Onishi, two scholars of Christian nationalism that just did a deep dive on Rolling Stone about Mike Johnson's connection to the new Apostolic Reformation and how there's an intentional plan to remake the government in this Christian nationalist image. Let me tell. Let me talk to the subsect people for a second. Hi, by the way, also, this champagne is definitely hitting me. I don't know why I'm a lightweight. It is what it is, but I'm also a lightweight.

[April Ajoy]

I've had, like, two sips, and I'm like, I gotta slow down.

[Tim Whitaker]

Me, too. Me too. Oh, good. Okay, so look, if you are someone who did not grow up in, like, white evangelical Christianity, I want to talk to you for a second, and I want you to really hear me, and I'm asking you to trust me. If you're new to the show and you can fact check me over time. The SNAP benefits debacle is intentional. The firing of the federal employees over the shutdown is intentional. The dismantling of the Department of Education is intentional. The people behind this Trump regime, the Christian nationalists like Mike Johnson and many, many others, Paula White, the Faith Advisory Council person, they want the government to be dismantled so they can remake it in the image of white Christian nationalism. Okay? So what's happening in our government is not a bug. It is a feature of a white Christian nationalist takeover. Do you understand that? So they'll let this sh down go as long as they want because ultimately they don't give a shit about the American people. They don't give a shit about the Democrats that are also American citizens. They just don't care. They do not care about the poor. People who will go hungry on SNAP are not getting SNAP benefits. As someone in our chat said, it's all in Project 2025. And that's true. So I just need you guys to understand this is why I'm always tempered and like, yes, I'm super happy about the recent elections, going very blue and Mamdani, that's super great. That's great. But there are bigger forces at work that are working in our federal government to undermine it intentionally. Even even Doge back in the day a couple months ago, DOGE and the dismantling of USAID was intentional. Can I give just one more example while I'm here that I just researched just to give you guys the perspective here, the Trump administration, and again, friends, feel free to fact check me on this. I'm not worried about that because I know that my sources are legit. The fact the Trump administration just cut down the amount of refugees admitted into the US by a record low of what was previously 125,000, now down to 7,500. Okay? And they are giving most of those slots to white Africaners. Now, white Africaners in South Africa, the Trump regime will say, are a persecuted white minority. That is not true for many, many reasons that we can't go into on this show for this moment. But they are essentially saying, look, we're going to allocate these slots not to people who are actual refugees, but to white Africans to bring them back over to the US I just need you guys to understand what is happening here, okay? Everything you're seeing is part of a larger game plan to dismantle the federal government, destroy it, and then remake it in the image of them. And right now we are in the dismantling a portion yeah.

[April Ajoy]

And I do think we need to be on the lookout that they're going to look at this loss, see the writing on the wall, realize how popular they are, and they're going to try to steal future elections or try to rig it in some way, literally. Donald Trump, the night of the election, he posted on his truth Social pass, voter reform, voter id, no mail in ballot ballot, Save our Supreme court from packing. No. 2 state edition, terminate the filibuster.

[Maurice Mitchell]

Yep.

[Tim Whitaker]

So that's right.

[April Ajoy]

Literally, his response is like, what can I do better to make Americans want to vote for me? It's no get rid of mail in bat. Like they're already planting those seeds of gerrymandering, voter suppression. And oh, also, we didn't mention too, but In California, Prop 50 passed, which is going to give California potentially five more Democratic seats that they voted on, which is to offset the gerrymandering redistricting that they've done in Texas without voter approval. They just did it. And there's other red states that are doing that as well. So that's something just to be on the lookout that. That I think now they might realize, oh, we got to get this agenda passed quickly because we might get voted out next year.

[Maurice Mitchell]

Right.

[Tim Whitaker]

And this is why many of of us and many of the scholars that we talk to will tell you that, you know, Christian nationalism does not believe in democracy. It doesn't care about that. It doesn't care about the will of the people. It cares about power and control, which is why they have no problem gerrymandering. I mean, even Paul Weyrich back from the Moral Majority says our chances of going up is dependent upon fewer and fewer voters actually voting. So, anyway, sorry to go on that little bit of a tangent, but we.

[April Ajoy]

Got a lot of things to get to.

[Tim Whitaker]

I know. I'm sorry. It's this huge bottle of champagne next to me that I'm all done drinking. Yeah.

[April Ajoy]

I do want to point out, I don't know if you can pull up one of those tweets. I can't remember who posted it. I think it was Seth. Was it Seth Gruber? About how they're really scared of Zoran Mamdani bringing Sharia law to New York. I don't believe he even has the power to do that. But I want to point out, based on everything that you just said about the Heritage foundation, these people that are freaking out about an Islamic theocracy, it's all projection. Because they want a Christian theocracy. They basically want the same things that they're well, here, just read this tweet. You want me to read it?

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah. Can you read it? You read it?

[April Ajoy]

Yeah. So this is Seth Gruber. He's a can't read conservative Christian dude. Okay. What does this radical Islamist mayor of NYC and the modern leftists who helped elect him have in common? Virtually nothing, except a shared hatred of Christianity and desire to supplant the only true religion. Islam hates gay marriage, abortion, the trans movement, and has an antipathy for the homosexuals to the point of shoving them off buildings. Let this be your wake up call. The left will jump into bed with the very people they would typically describe as homophobes, transphobes and theocrats. So long as those bedfellows hate Christ and his followers. All human conflict is ultimately theological. Every accusation is a confession.

[Tim Whitaker]

Everyone.

[April Ajoy]

Also Zoran Mamdani, like, he, he's literally, you see him with pictures holding trans flags. Like, he. He's not anti gay or anti trans. And I think this has been a kind of a wake up call for me because I used. I used to be very Islamophobic because of what I was taught about Islam. And then I realized it's very similar to Christianity in the sense that you have very fundamentalist Islamic people and then you have progressive people like us that are very inclusive and very opening and loving and love thy neighbor. And I actually have more in common with a progressive Muslim than I do a conservative Christian in some regards, based on a lot of the. The same books.

[Tim Whitaker]

So a thousand percent. It's really interesting watching them squash down Islam to like one view that is usually pretty, like not even accurate. And then, you know, they are telling people like you and me that we're not true Christians.

[Maurice Mitchell]

Right?

[Tim Whitaker]

And these are the same people. Like you said, they hate gay marriage. They. Seth Gruber runs, I think, I think he's the one who runs the White Rose Resistance, which essentially wants blanket abortion bans for any reason at all in America and will say that abortion is a modern day holocaust. So he's that person. Michael Knowles says that we have to eradicate transgenderism. Candace Owens calls transgender people demonic. Seth Gruber probably agrees. They hate gay people. I mean, they are the very thing that they're critiquing. And by the way, Mamdani is none of those things. He's been very clear about the fact that he's a progressive Muslim. And I know for people who grew up in either Western culture or in particular white evangelicalism, that doesn't make any sense. That's because you've been given a really bad view of Islam. Just like how. Just like how. April, you and I will tell people, Look, Christian nationalism is Christian, but it's not nearly close to the whole picture of Christian thought. Right, right. It's the same kind of idea.

[April Ajoy]

The majority of the globe of global Christianity.

[Tim Whitaker]

Exactly.

[April Ajoy]

But in historical Christianity, too, despite how confident they are that they're the one true belief system, they're not. They're. They're like. Yeah, they're just a small slither.

[Tim Whitaker]

Well, that's why I tweeted this out. Maybe this is a good time to bring up. I don't want to brag. I don't. I don't share my own tweets on the show very often, but I did go a little viral on threads. I did. I went viral. God, April, I only had one glass of this champagne. I do not feel myself. I'm just gonna say that.

[April Ajoy]

Okay, I'm gonna stop drinking.

[Tim Whitaker]

No, no, I'm all done. I'm all done. I'm just. I'm just done.

[April Ajoy]

Anyway, like to read your own tweet.

[Tim Whitaker]

I will try. I said I'm a Christian and thrilled that my Muslim neighbor, Zoran Mandani, won. Ironically, his policies took a lot more. Look, a lot more Christian than what my Christian nationalist neighbors advocate for. And that's the point, right? It's shared values over shared beliefs. Me and my Christian nationalist neighbor might even have some theological aya beliefs in common, but we have very different values of how those beliefs are practiced, how they're, you know, what it means to be a Christian, et cetera. And I'm happy to see Mamdani be elected. Who wants to fight for the working class? Who wants to freeze rent? Who wants the billionaires to pay their fair share? That's a great thing. But for Christian nationalists, this is a war. The fact that we have one Muslim mayor in America, I mean, there could be more, but I'm assuming, you know, mainly one right now. Just the fact that there is one for the Christian nationalist says, oh, my God, we're being invaded by radical Islam.

[April Ajoy]

Well, this. I think, like, this is a good opportunity to bring up that Ali Beth Stuckey tweet. She tweeted this a few weeks ago. Ali Beth Stucky, who we've talked about. Tim, debated her in a jubilee episode. She is. She's insufferable. But anyway, she tweeted this. I asked my 840,000 Instagram followers, mostly Christian women, what their biggest concern is for the country right now. And by far the most Common answer is the growing influence of Islam. I'd like to see this confirmed concern reflected in the GOP asap. What do you mean? Out of everything that's happening in our country, every problem that we're facing, their biggest concern is Islam.

[Maurice Mitchell]

Right?

[Tim Whitaker]

Right.

[April Ajoy]

That makes up like 1% of our population.

[Tim Whitaker]

I know. I know what this. This is. This is. What is. How do I say this? It's wild like it is. Guys, I'm not sure where to start. Okay, I'll put it this way.

[Maurice Mitchell]

If.

[Melinda Hale]

If you think.

[Tim Whitaker]

Because I'm sure you've seen a lot of these, like, pictures or posts like. Like, Rudy Giuliani posted a picture of 911 and was like, how soon we forgot New York.

[April Ajoy]

Yeah.

[Tim Whitaker]

I'm like, look, if you're going to pin 911 on Zoran Mandani, I hope you're ready. I'm hoping you're ready to pin January6 on your white evangelical pastor. That's how stupid you sound. I would never pin January six on my former evangelical pastor because he wasn't there. He actually denounced it. I would never conflate the two. But for when it comes to Islam in America and how these Maga Sika fans see this, right? Mom, Donnie is responsible for 911 11. It is just Islamophobia.

[April Ajoy]

Yeah, but they do the blanket painting of enemies all the time. It's why they blank everybody on the left with no evidence for Charlie Kirk's murder. Like, these are people that they like to blanket villainize these because it works.

[Tim Whitaker]

Right. They're not looking for good faith.

[April Ajoy]

They don't use logic.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah, it's fear based.

[April Ajoy]

Do we want to just, like, fat? We got. We have someone coming in 18 minutes, so I feel like we got a fast track. Do we want to just, like, read some other of these tweets? Because I feel like the crash out from MAGA and these Christian nationalists was either very Islamophobic and like Sharia law and fear mongering, or it was super misogynistic.

[Tim Whitaker]

This one. Right? Let's do this.

[April Ajoy]

Yeah. This is Dale Partridge.

[Tim Whitaker]

Oh, my God.

[April Ajoy]

That I've had many run ins with. I have. My favorite interaction was when I called him Dildo. He didn't like it. Anyway. This guy's like, oh, he's also insufferable. Very misogynistic. And he posted this after Zoran won because a lot of people, a lot of men. And we can show you other tweets are using Zoran Mamdani's win as the reason that women should no Longer get the right to vote.

[Tim Whitaker]

Right?

[Maurice Mitchell]

Right.

[Tim Whitaker]

Here we go. By the way, if you're new to the show, this is real. These people are deadly serious and they're behind the Trump regime.

[Right-wing commentator (clip)]

Is it good that women can vote in America?

[Tim Whitaker]

Wow, I don't think so.

[Right-wing commentator (clip)]

And here's why. Nearly every legalized market moral atrocity of the last hundred years was made possible by the female vote. Abortion and homosexuality would likely still be illegal if not for the female vote. Mass immigration and the welfare state rode on the backs of the female vote. Nearly every modern Democrat, including Obama and Biden, were elected because of the female vote. Even last night, the new Muslim New York City mayor, Mondame won specifically because of the female vote.

[Tim Whitaker]

Congrats tonight.

[Right-wing commentator (clip)]

19Th amendment has been a moral and political tragedy for America.

[Tim Whitaker]

But why can we just hear what he said?

[April Ajoy]

Women do we just hear what he said for women being able to vote?

[Tim Whitaker]

But listen to this part right here.

[Right-wing commentator (clip)]

The 19th amendment has been a moral and political tragedy for America.

[Tim Whitaker]

Boom.

[Zoran Mamdani (clip)]

That's right.

[Tim Whitaker]

What these people. I need you to hear us. This is not fringe. Doug Wilson, Pete Hegstaff's like mentor, believes this shit. He went on CNN and said it himself. When we tell you that next up is women's suffrage, I don't want to hear from white progressives. Oh well, it's the Constitution. They'll never get a pass. They will figure it out. They are working on the strategies as we speak to repeal women's suffrage. And it will happen if we allow it to. It will happen if they keep getting elected. So I need people to wake up to that reality. This is on the table for these folks. They think it's a moral evil and a tragedy for America. That's how they see it.

[Right-wing commentator (clip)]

But why? Women were not made to lead, but to follow and to feel. This is God's design and it's good within the family and the household. But emotions cannot be what is used to rule and govern a nation. Statistically and generally speaking, women vote for whatever feels most kind or peaceful or safe to their emotions. Women create security and comfort and whoever promises those things wins their loyalty. The problem is evil. Men know this and they exploit this is such. Women are twice as likely to men to be seduced into an affair. They are 26% more likely to be financially scammed online. They are three times more likely to fall prey to psychics and tarot card readings and astrology and mediums. The same emotional vulnerability that shows a up there also shows up in politics.

[Tim Whitaker]

Can we, can we stop? Do we keep going. I don't want to keep going.

[April Ajoy]

No, it's fine. I just want to say it is rich that he's like, women are too emotional. When Donald Trump literally crashed out because he didn't like his picture on Time magazine.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah, yeah.

[April Ajoy]

I'm sorry. Who's the emotional one? Literally every war has been started by someone with a penis.

[Maurice Mitchell]

Yeah.

[Courtney (Listener/Donor)]

For real.

[April Ajoy]

Just saying. There's no women out there that are like, that's my land. No, that's my land. And then they just duke it out like she's Louise. These men. No, by the way.

[Maurice Mitchell]

By the way.

[April Ajoy]

No, no kind of offense.

[Tim Whitaker]

First off, can I just speak on behalf of white men who look like bro evangelicals like myself? I'm six foot four, I'm tattooed. I go to the gym. That guy. I'm sorry, him. That is such. It's garbage, by the way. Just to even prove how bullshit these people are, you can Google. Are women more likely to initiate affairs? Studies show that men are more likely than women to engage in sexual infidelity. They just make stuff up. They make it up. Or they pull selective data out of context. Like, this is what they do. This is what they do.

[April Ajoy]

Forget these are the same men that if a pastor gets into an affair or sexually assaults a woman, it's the woman's fault because she was being seductress. She had the Jezebel spirit. The man could not control himself around such a deceitful seductress woman.

[Tim Whitaker]

Right. I mean, April, I can't see your shoulders if I see your shoulders. You know, as a big, strong man who's not emotional at all, I just can't control myself around you.

[Maurice Mitchell]

If you're. If you're.

[Tim Whitaker]

If your shirt is too low cut, if your pants are too tight, if your skirt is too short, if I.

[April Ajoy]

Show a bra strap.

[Tim Whitaker]

Oh, please, though. I can't look. I can't look. No. All right. But also, you know, women are the emotional ones who are just giving into their. Their empathy and. And emotions. You got to be kidding me. Like, this is.

[Maurice Mitchell]

This is.

[Tim Whitaker]

It's nonsense, but it's growing in right wing spaces. That's the only reason why we're talking about this, right? Because these people have big platforms.

[April Ajoy]

Let's show a couple tweets of the men that are just also rolling with this line of women.

[Tim Whitaker]

Where should I go?

[April Ajoy]

You tell me.

[Maurice Mitchell]

What do you want?

[April Ajoy]

I don't know. Go to Brian Swan.

[Tim Whitaker]

Oh, no, not Brian.

[April Ajoy]

So he's quote tweeting someone that says young women are the story of tonight, 81% for Mamdani, 80% for Cheryl, New Jersey, 78% for Spanberger in Virginia. Basically vast majority of women voting Democrat. And then he's quote, tweeting a defiant Baptist that says eventually you'll agree with us that it's time to repeal the 19th amendment and it may be sooner rather than later. And then Brian Suave, who have also had run ins with said repealing the 19th is the moderate position.

[Tim Whitaker]

The moderate position. The Overton window has. Has moved so far right that their current the right wing is currently debating if a holocaust denying Nick Fuentes, who says that Stalin was someone he admires. He says that women is want to be r worded.

[Maurice Mitchell]

Right.

[Tim Whitaker]

They're debating if that guy should have a platform inside the gop. They're debating it. There's a rift between people. Some saying it's fine, some saying it's not. And then you have Brian Suave, whatever the hell his name is, saying that this is the moderate position, repealing women's right to vote in a constitutional democratic republic that's ruled by a constitution, not by their horrific interpretation of the Bible.

[April Ajoy]

Yeah. So there's a bunch of other tweets that we pulled, but you can just trust us that the MAGA is crashing out and it's either very Islamophobic or it's very misogynistic.

[Tim Whitaker]

Well, can we also mention William Wolf? I think. I think the Islamophobia is really worth hearing. We got a few minutes until 1:00 clock and assuming our guest is on.

[April Ajoy]

The Gatsby party before or after we have it? Before. I mean, I guess we could do it after.

[Tim Whitaker]

I really can't drink champagne anymore on the air. It's not a good idea for me. Really quick, I just want to share this one thing. I think this is important. William Wolf, who is a white Christian nationalist, really tried to to. I'm going to read the tweet and Trump's cabinet. Yes. By the way, here's what he said. Okay. It's incredibly important to understand that Mamdani was not actually elected mayor of the historic American city that we know as New York because that city doesn't exist anymore due to intentional mass replacement immigration. That's a KKK term, by the way. New York City is now a third world metropolis, warring, wearing the Big Apple as a skin suit. Americans didn't elect Mamdani, foreigners did. And his election is not the beginning is. And his election is not the beginning of the end. For nyc. It's a death Certificate. Finally, it's a reminder that everything right now in Escape League comes back to immigration. If we don't stop mass migration and accelerate deportations, denaturalization and re migration, this will happen over and over again until the United States is nothing more than a disparate conglomeration of Mumbais and some other words I can't pronounce in Mexico City. My point in bringing this up to you, friends, is two things. Number one, I just want William Wolf to understand that New York City is still the wealthiest city in the world. So for all this talk about how it's a death sentence, how New York has been given over to quote, unquote, third Worlders, which again, is so racist, so horrible, it's the richest city in the freaking world, so just cope with that. But number two, what William Wolf is doing is he's essentially saying the quiet parts out loud. White people, white Europeans are the superior race. And these so called foreigners, who, by the way, are legal citizens who, who, who are legally able to vote. Right. Our foreigners are third worlders, are not as evolved as us, are not as superior. You know, they're not equal to us. This is KKK stuff. This is grand wizard talking points reimagined and re spoken in 2025 language. That's all this is.

[April Ajoy]

Also, I hate the whole we're immigrants are ruining America as if we weren't immigrants. As if white people were not the OG immigrants when we colonized America. Like everyone is an immigrant unless you are an indigenous person to America. If you are a Native American, everyone else is an immigrant.

[Tim Whitaker]

And white people were a nightmare. They were a hell on earth for the indigenous people who were here. Right. I mean, the way that we, as you know, the way that white people colonized, raped, enslaved, et cetera. Yeah. But again, I say this because William Wolf is not a no name. This man prayed over Trump. There's a picture of him praying over Trump recently in 2025. This is who Trump surrounds himself with, people who have these views.

[Courtney (Listener/Donor)]

Yeah.

[April Ajoy]

So, yeah, Andy Ogles, who's a representative, he also tweeted something very Islamophobic. And I just, I found it very rich because he, he tweeted out this. Oh, gosh, that's so. Can you make that bigger? That is so small on my screen.

[Tim Whitaker]

Sorry, I'm on a small screen too. I'm working with three different screens here, trying to make.

[April Ajoy]

Well, here, if you read it, then.

[Tim Whitaker]

I can't read it. It's too small.

[April Ajoy]

Okay.

[Courtney (Listener/Donor)]

All right.

[April Ajoy]

This man came to America for One reason to America into an Islamic theocracy. I say no to Sharia law, which is why I've presented an argument to have Mamdani sent back to Uganda based on information he clearly withheld. I'm fighting to take our country back. DOJ must investigate. This is like just so rich. Like, they. He is the same guy who proposed legislation to get Donald Trump a third term. And they're worried about a theocracy and this authoritarianism from Mamdani. I'm telling you, it's all projection, projection, projection. Because they're accusing him of things they want to do, of what they plan to do. Anyway, we have a few minutes. We do want to get into the. Just the Gatsby party because I think what these people, what Republicans are clearly missing is it's not. It's that Americans are fed up with Donald Trump and MAGA and Republicans living this life of luxury. So Donald Trump, Halloween night, so this past Friday, hosted a great Gatsby party at Mar A Lago and I. So he, as you could see in this video, this is from the party. It is a scantily clad woman kind of dancing seductively in. In a martini glass. And here's Mar a Lago. It's this great Gatsby themed. It's rich millionaires and billionaires at this party. And this is on the eve of when SNAP benefits are going out for American citizens.

[Tim Whitaker]

Think about that for a second. That's wild. The city president of the US Doing this crazy.

[April Ajoy]

The amount of money that was spent on this party too. And, and, and I think too, like, there's videos of him talking about, oh, groceries is such a ancient word. Like, oh, such a cute old word. Like, it's not an old word. Everybody goes out and buys groceries. Like, it's this, this. It's this disconnect between the top and your everyday American people. Like, the battle really is top and bottom. It's not left and right.

[Tim Whitaker]

Right.

[April Ajoy]

But they're. They're pushing this war about immigrants and about trans people and about women because they want to keep it left to right. Because if they keep it left to right, the top continues to get richer and richer and richer, while the, the poor get poorer 100%. That's really what's happening here. And, and people are tired of it.

[Maurice Mitchell]

Yep.

[Tim Whitaker]

I again, like, even this tweet from Caroline Levitt, you know, this idea of like, look how great it is that Trump remodeled this bathroom. It's like, what are you guys doing? Are you. Are you joking? And honestly, go ahead April, I was.

[April Ajoy]

Just gonna say, she says here, when I first learned a toilet like that existed inside the White House. This is the toilet before Donald Trump. What are they renovated? He renovated the Lincoln bathroom that was renovated in the 1940s. So he's literally like destroying historic room. She says, I was horrified.

[Tim Whitaker]

Thank you.

[April Ajoy]

How can you be horrified by a bathroom, by the deck, decor and design of a bathroom, and not horrified that American children are starving?

[Tim Whitaker]

How do I say this? Caroline will look at women being ripped from their husbands and their kids being ripped from them. They'll watch videos of ice agents, pepper bulleting priests in the head who are peacefully protesting. That doesn't horrify her. It's a toilet in the Lincoln bathroom in the White House. That's what horrifies you. And again, my question is, to all the MAGA people who voted for this, what are your thoughts like? Do you not see why people like me and April and many others are just like, bewildered by your support of this man? He doesn't care about you. On the eve of SNAP benefits being cut for 42 million people, he throws a Great Gatsby party, has scantily clad women at the party, which, by the way, April and I don't care at all about. But the white evangelicals sure as hell do. The people who care about April's bra straps sure as hell do.

[April Ajoy]

They won't say a thing as a teenager for wearing a tank top because a man, a grown man, could lust after my teenage body. And these people, I went and looked. I went and looked. I'm like, surely the Ali Beth Stuckey's of the world, the Meg Bastions of the world that are all about, you know, morality and modesty. Modest is hottest. They literally would go off on the importance of modesty and having good moral men didn't say a stinking word about these half naked women dancing in front of Trump. And Marco Rubio was there. They were going around the tables dancing and didn't say a word. And to be clear, I don't care that women are dancing like they do. Like, that's not it for me. It's the hypocrisy. It's the fact that they will still paint Donald Trump as this Christian moral man that is a hero of the Christian faith when he has shown them time and time and time and time and time again that he is not a good moral Christian man at all. And they turn a blind eye. But they'll still come after you and me because we think queer people and immigrants should have basic human rights and not be tortured. My God.

[Tim Whitaker]

It's the same thing that happened in 2016, right? It's why you and I and many others like, wait, what's going on with this? Trump is bragging about grabbing women, and you're fine with it. Christians, who taught me that, like, this stuff really matters. You taught me that I had to save myself for marriage and be a virgin in order for God to bless my marriage, which, by the way, I. I did. And Trump is out here grabbing women, covering, you know, posing on the COVID of Playboy. No big deal. This is God's anointed. It's the same thing over and over for the past decade. Trump gets these. These passes that are jaw dropping for folks who grew up like you and I today, bro. Because we know our pastor would never, would never allow this. We. We covered or I covered recently. The. The JD Vance Erica Kirk hug that was seen around the world. I'm like, look, if this happened at my church, my pastor would be all over this. What is a married man doing hugging a woman like this who's in leather pants now? Again, I don't care that someone's wearing leather pants. It's the point that the groups, the people.

[April Ajoy]

That was a intense frontal hug.

[Tim Whitaker]

Oh, the hand on the head, side.

[April Ajoy]

Hug the opposite sex, because otherwise the man's gonna feel your boobs and lust after you, and then a hundred percent.

[Tim Whitaker]

It's unreal.

[Melinda Hale]

Hey, everyone, this is Melinda Hale, the executive director of the New Evangelicals. Listen. Every day, we hear from people who feel isolated, disillusioned, and hurt by a version of Christianity that has been hijacked by politics and nationalism. And yet they still long for a faith that is rooted in love, justice, and compassion. And that's why the New Evangelicals exist, because we believe there is a better path forward. We're creating resources, hosting conversations, and we're building communities for people who want to reclaim Christianity and stay rooted in the teachings of Jesus. But building a movement like this takes time, it takes energy, and it takes financial support. So if this podcast or our YouTube, our educational offerings or community space or anything that we've created has impacted you, would you consider becoming a donor? Even a gift of $5 makes a huge difference for small organizations like this. Your support helps us to continue empowering people to put their faith into action by rejecting Christian nationalism and to live in a way that shows people how to truly love our neighbors. Together, I know that we could build something beautiful. So visit thenewevangelicals.com support to give today you can find the link right in our show. Notes, thank you for standing with us.

[Tim Whitaker]

Oh, what if we played the, the Trump clip about grocery prices? That's a good one.

[April Ajoy]

Yeah, yeah, this is a good one.

[Tim Whitaker]

I just think this is a really good example of like, I get, I just don't know how MAGA people like justify this kind of stuff. I just, I'm just curious. So this is Trump being grilled by FOX News. Let's hear what he has to say here.

[Caller or Listener]

Regina Foley messaged me and she says she is retired in Greensboro, North Carolina. She is a registered Republican. All her life she voted for you three different times. But she is not happy about how her prices have not come down that she sees. And she said this quote, I want the Republicans to keep control of Congress in 2026, but something has to be done fast. I don't see the best economy right now. Wall street numbers do not reflect my Main street money. Please do something. President Trump. So I guess what do you say to Regina and people like her? Well, I do say that this beef we have to get down in terms I think of groceries. You know, it's an old fashioned word, but it's a beautiful word. Beef, we have to get down, but we've got prices way down. And think of this energy. She drives a car probably and her energy prices are way down. And energy is so all encompassing, it's so big that when energy goes down, everything comes down, everything follows it. And I have energy down to 5, 6 year lows. Now you think prices are coming down from the believe that? Yeah, I think they're coming down, but I think they're down already. I think the biggest problem is Republicans don't talk about it. They don't talk about the word affordability and the Democrats lie about it.

[Tim Whitaker]

Look, there you go. There you go, friends.

[April Ajoy]

I mean, to be clear, an old fashioned term.

[Tim Whitaker]

Not only that grocery prices are actually up, but again, you can just fact check this. You can just do a simple fact check and you'll see that grocery prices are up, not down.

[April Ajoy]

I just, I hate how, and I've seen him saying this before too, because this has been brought up to him a few times. The way he just gaslights people. When people are like, you know, I'm really tired of paying these high prices. He's like, no, prices are down.

[Tim Whitaker]

Actually, they're down. It's like a Jedi trip.

[April Ajoy]

I see the bill, I see my grocery bill, I see what I'm paying at, like when I go to the counter and he's like, oh, no, it's actually low. You're just. Yeah, it's just reading it wrong.

[Melinda Hale]

Like, okay, what?

[Tim Whitaker]

Anyway, we had to share that because the gaslighting never ends. And again, if any MAGA people are watching, especially Christians, I just want to know, like, what are your thoughts on this? Like, Trump is just genuinely lying about the reality, so you can leave it in the comments. All right, look, our guest is here. I'm very, very excited to get into this conversation. I've had Maurice Mitchell on the New Evangelicals podcast before. He blew my mind because he is the national director for the Working Families Party. And I was like, okay, dude, but third party, though. I mean, how does third party operate in a society where both Democrats and Republicans seem to want to shake hands on being the only two parties in town? And I think that you'll be happy with Maurice's views on this. And they were the party really behind Mandani, so I'm so happy to bring him in. Hopefully this works. Hopefully I prepped it correctly.

[Courtney (Listener/Donor)]

Boom.

[Maurice Mitchell]

It's good to be with you all.

[Tim Whitaker]

Hello, Maurice. It's so good to see you, man. Thanks for making time. I really appreciate it.

[Maurice Mitchell]

For sure. For sure. By the way, I just. I heard a little bit of that clip. Groceries are. Are. It's an old fashioned word all of a sudden.

[Tim Whitaker]

Old fashioned? Dude, who says that anymore?

[April Ajoy]

No one says that word anymore.

[Maurice Mitchell]

That's going to be swimming around in my head like I'm. How do I square that?

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah, exactly, exactly, exactly. Look, it's so good to have you on the show again. Thank you for making time. I literally texted you less than 24 hours ago. Look, I want you to introduce yourself to the audience and just give a little bit about you and the work that you're doing. And then I want to hear your thoughts on Mandani's win and just get your thoughts on all of that. So go for it, my friend.

[Maurice Mitchell]

Well, hey, I'm just a working class guy who grew up outside of New York City with some humble parents that you know. My mom is a retired nurse. My dad is an electrician who worked underneath trains. And I learned the value of hard work, of unions, and I wanted to fight for people like my parents. And so I got involved in organizing. I got involved in organizing, grassroots organizing, fighting for everyday people in really small schools where, like in Wyandanch, in Long island, where the graduation rate was like 36%. Right? And so we had to organize parents and teachers and fight, and that's how I got involved in electoral organizing is on the school board level. Right. And I saw what could happen when people come together around elections. Right. It's not just about the, you know, choose a sports team, red or blue. These are people's lives. These are people's dignities. And elections and politics often deal with things that are most personal and the deepest to us. And when we're able to unlock grassroots energy, we could change the world. I saw it in Ferguson. I was on the ground in Ferguson. I saw it in the movement for black lives, and I see it today. And what I see is there's a set of people in the Republican Party, and the Republican Party has one master, that crazy guy that we heard, and billionaires. Right. But what people also see is that the Democratic Party has two masters, sometimes the people, but often they're a set of oligarchs. And people are so hungry for something else. And the Working Families Party is designed to be that something else. The Working Families party started around 26, 27 years ago during a time when the Democratic Party moved, like, lurched towards Wall street. And they supported the free trade agreements that led to so many working people no longer having viable careers, no longer being able to support their families, having all of their jobs offshore. They supported the 94 crime bill, which led to a lot of people just getting churned into the criminal legal system. They supported, quote, unquote, welfare reform, which made it harder for people who really needed those services to get those services. And what people said at the time was that you will lose a generation of working people. And those folks were really smug. They were like, well, where are they going to go? They're not going to go to the country club. Republican. Right. Well, Fast forward to 2024. So many working people of all races listened to Donald Trump and heard his fake populism and heard at least somebody that acknowledged their pain, acknowledged what they were seeing and feeling, which is the system's not working for me. Right. What we saw on Tuesday was Zoram Hamdani, chair, a authentic populism. Yeah, Right. That tells a true story about, yes, the system isn't working for you. Yes. There's a set of elites, these billionaires, by the way, like a dozen of them spent like, I don't know, $26 million, $40 million, $40 million against Zora Mamdani and against our coalition. And they lost. And they lost because Zora Mamdani wasn't speaking the full populism of Donald Trump, seeking a populism of togetherness, of solidarity, a Populism that includes everybody. And the Working Families Party has been designed since back then to build that multiracial working class sort of solidarity of just what I like to call regular schmegular people. Right. All of these labels. Democrat, Republican, progressive, Democratic, socialist, conservative. We're just the everyday people who are trying to figure out how things. How to get by, how to make things affordable. And we all kind of have this sense that there's a set of people who are making it harder for us to do this. And most people are clocking the fact that, yes, the Republicans are crazy, but the Democrats are weak. And if my choice is between weak and crazy, those aren't choices I like. So that's why so many people, that's why 90 million people didn't turn out. But that's also why we had the largest turnout in New York City since the 50s, I think. Right. Because people are hungry. People do want to believe. They just need something to believe in and they need a politics. It's just not about fighting the horrible stuff. And a lot of people agree what Trump is doing is horrible. They want something to fight for. And so the Working Families Party, we had close to 700 people on the ballot on Tuesday, so. So I'm really excited about Zoran, but we flipped the mayor's seat in Ohio, in Dayton, Ohio. We won elections in Albany, in Syracuse, in Buffalo. Right. What's happening is happening all around the country. And people are trying to exceptionalize what happened with Zoran because he is an exceptional communicator, he is an exceptional leader. But I think some of those people are actually bad faith people. They want to believe that this is something that only could happen in New York. It's only happening because Zoran is such a sensation online and such a great communicator. And I'm like, no, no, no. What's taking place is actually happening everywhere. You know, we endorsed a black woman running statewide in red Georgia, in purple Georgia, and she won. And the reason why she won, it was like it was Public Service Commission. Right. That they deal with utilities. People's utilities are skyrocketing because the Republican Party has colluded with the elites in the utilities and the extractive oil and gas industry. Right. That collusion is a problem for all people in Georgia.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah.

[Maurice Mitchell]

Every Senate one is. And so they supported our candidate because they're fed up with it. So the same issues of affordability, it's a crisis. I call it a crisis of dignity because it's not just about dollars and cents. Right. Fundamentally, Affordability is about being able to work a job and then going home and being able to afford to keep yourself and your family safe. And most people, people say it's the bottom 60%. That is most people. Most people can't do that in this country. And so I think, yes, a rebuke of Donald Trump and Trumpism and MAGA and also people voting for people who are willing to fight for them in this fight for dignity, economic dignity, which is the affordability crisis that people are facing.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah, really well said. I found your work a few years ago with the new evangelicals and I was doing a lot of that work on the Instagram side. I was like, wow, I love this. And the more I've gotten into just this world, the more I'm like, yeah, I'm not sure if, like, the Democratic Party is where I really want to land. I need something better that's more hopeful. That's how I discovered you guys. Can you share with the audience? I know a lot of people have the question of, like, well, how does this work then? Like, what do you mean that, like, you're running people? I mean, like, for example, Mom, Donnie, was that, was that, was he on, like the Working Families Party ticket? Was he under the Democratic ticket? Like, how does it actually work? I. Because I, I love what you're doing and I believe in it, but I also want to make sure that we actually have a way forward to make this change possible.

[Maurice Mitchell]

Yeah, absolutely. So what people should understand is most people get that we should have that third space in American politics. Right? We should, as working people, have a politics that actually is not backed by the bosses. Right. And so what we do at the Working Families Party is like we cook what we have in the kitchen to make that possible. Right? We're not delusional. We understand that there's a very rigid two party system. There's this duopoly that is supported by all of the oligarchs and all of the status quo and all of the industries, you name it, apac, AI, crypto, pharma, we're not delusional about that. The real estate lobby, the fraternal order, the police, all those people, we get it. And what we do, what we seek to do is figure out all the different hacks so that we could express that politics that I just talked about. And so that looks like in New York and in Connecticut, we actually have a tried and true independent political party on the ballot. And the reason why we use that in New York and Connecticut is that we have this Thing called Fusion voting. Elon Musk just discovered this, by the way. He was so outraged. He was like, wait, this is voter fraud. How could Zorabnabi be on the Democratic party line? And this other the Working Families party line, how dare they? Well, in New Connecticut, Elon, if you're listening right, we have something called fusion voting. Fusion is as old as and as American as apple pie. It's how the Republican Party came about, right? The Republican Party is a relatively new party. There were the Whigs, right? So the Republican Party emerged, and it actually was a left party back then, Right? It was the party of emancipation back then. And it shows you how parties flow and change. But Fusion allows a party to be able to cross endorse the candidate of another party, right? So in 2024, the Working Families Party recognized that we aren't on the ballot in every state. We can't contend for the highest office, right? And so in a presidential election where it really was a binary choice between Donald Trump and Kamala Harris, instead of running our own candidate, we endorse Kamala Harris, the Democrat. We were able to do that, put her on our line. Because Fusion voting allows that, right? It allows multiple candidates to stand for various positions based on various parties. And our party is the party of labor and community. It's the party of economic justice. It's the party of everyday people being able to get by. And so when you tally all those votes, when it comes time to govern, we could talk to those elected officials, some of whom, if it wasn't for our vote, because sometimes people win just with like a few hundred or a few dozen or a few thousand votes. We could say, hey, if it wasn't for our voters, you wouldn't be elected. Let's talk about the governing. Let's talk about the policies. Let's actually make sure that at the end of the day, working people could actually get dignity. And you deliver for working people. That's the power of that fusion that we have. And actually, I'm really proud to say that more people voted on the Working Families Party line in Tuesday in New York City than they the Republican Party. So you can't really call a third party in New York City. If you're gonna use a third party label in New York City, give that to the Republicans right now, outside of New York and Connecticut, we recruit people and we opportunistically run them in Democratic primaries. We do that in a lot of places. So Zoram Hamdani, he's a member of the Working Families Party. He voted for himself on the Working Families Party line, but he fought against Andrew Cuomo inside of the Democratic primary. Right, right. Cooking with what we got in the kitchen. And then third, we do run independent Working Families Party people against the Republican and the Democrat. And when we do it, we win. And so we've done that in 2003. And so in 2003, we supported and recruited Tish J. To run against the Democrat and Republican for Brooklyn City Council. She was too independent, too independent minded for the Democrats, and we beat them. She became a Brooklyn City Council person. If you can't beat them, join them. The Democrats eventually embraced her and she's rode her career all the way to the top. And she's the Attorney General that held Donald Trump accountable. Right. We did that this election cycle where in Ulster county we now have a WFP only Ulster county in Ulster there's a city council person that is a WP only person. In Onondaga in the legislature there's a WFP only person. And then in Hartford, Connecticut, we have a WP only school board member who's the president of the school board. Right. Who defeated the Republicans and the Democrats. Right. So when we can, as a third party, we run and we will run and challenge the Democrats and the Republicans in the general election if we have a path to victory. And sometimes our person is the Democrat. So look, we do a lot of things, but it all amounts to that independent everyday people, not backed by all the lobbies, not supported by the pacs type of politics that is focused like a laser on the issues that everyday people care about, like affordability and believe the crazy idea that we shouldn't be spending billions of dollars on foreign wars or billions of dollars on bombing other people's kids. We should be spending that money actually creating more possibilities for the kids here.

[April Ajoy]

I love that. I have a question as a. Just curious how it works. So when you go to the ballot, was there an option to vote for Mamdani as a Democrat and an option to vote for him as Working Families Party?

[Maurice Mitchell]

Correct? Absolutely. That's true. And we want there to be more fusion in other states. So, you know, we are part of an effort that isn't just a Working Families Party effort. It includes like, you know, some principled conservatives that are like, you know, are like, look, we don't like Trump. Right. But we're conservatives and we believe that our ideas should be expressed. And so some of them are trying to start their own fusion parties. We're fine with that. The more the merrier. And we think that fusion is one of the answers to the doom loop in our democracy, the duopoly doom loop. And look, there's a lot of fear based tactics inside the Democratic Party coalition, right. One of the fear based tactics is like, yeah, we suck, but where are you going to go? Like, you have to vote for us if you want to prevent fascism. And what that does is it needs cynicism. More and more people are just like, yeah, I guess I hear you, but this sucks. And I'm not going to go out and vote. I'm not going to volunteer. I'm not going to. It's the fear based, basically organizing people around the things that we hate. Right. And we saw with Zoron and what we see with many of our candidates is like, like we actually should organize people around the people and communities that we love and what we're willing to fight for. When you do that, you build movements.

[April Ajoy]

Yeah. For 28, do you think you would run, like, I'm sure you've been thinking about it, but are you thinking of running a candidate with the Working Class Working Families Party in the Democratic primary?

[Maurice Mitchell]

So there's a lot of people in WPLAND that are thinking about that. Right. So that, that definitely is like how that sounds. That definitely is a conversation. I think one of the things that we're starting with though is what we want to make sure. So, like, look, we think it's actually really cool that both Zoram Dani and, you know, people like Mikey Sherrill ran on affordability. We think that the reason why that happened is because Xoran was so successful in June that a lot of these strategists, they ripped up their playbooks and they realized, like, if we're going to win, we have to win on affordability. And it also shows that the Democratic Party and the Democrats, they're looking for ideas. And we're not going to wait on our hands for those ideas to come out of the failed places that the Democratic Party has, has developed strategies. So one of the things we're going to do very soon is we're going to popularize and launch a set of principles and ideas that we think are worth fighting for as the Working Families Party and invite everybody, all working people, regardless of who you are, your region, your background, whether or not you identify as a Democrat or independent or Republican, to join us to fight for that. And we think that those principles, those ideas, those values, we're going to hold every elected official, including whoever's running for president, accountable to that. And I'm gonna make it my duty to popularize those ideas so that these elected officials. Because I could tell you on the Democratic Party side who's debuting to run for president. And it shouldn't just be a popularity contest. Right. It should actually be about the ideas and principles that they're willing to fight for. And if we don't interject as everyday working people, and if we don't claim what those ideas are, they'll be more than happy to just make it a popularity contest and just say, like, you know, Gavin's, you know, won in the poll, so just let him have it. And that, to me, is unacceptable. That's how we get here. Yeah. That's how people see the cynicism, the. The careerist ambition, the lack of any heart. And it just. It gives people the ick.

[Tim Whitaker]

100. I can't express enough how much April and I have talked about this dilemma we find ourselves in, where we're like, obviously, we're here to stop Christian fascism however we can. That's what we do now for a living. Trying to expose it as former Christian conservatives ourselves. But also, I don't really feel like whatever the Democratic Party is cooking up, I'm not exactly thrilled with it, you know, And I don't like that, because what we're asking for, affordable health care, livable wages are. They are. They are not radical ideas at all. Especially in the world's richest nation, with only 3% of the world's population. Right. Hey, I want to give you some encouragement before I let you go. We have a few super chats that came in. Stevie Clown says, just changed my political affiliation to Working Families Party in Oregon. So you're already making a difference, Maurice. And then we had another one come in.

[Maurice Mitchell]

We have a party in Oregon. That's great.

[Tim Whitaker]

I love that. Another one from Joseph Compton. That's what I'm talking about. Start on the local level and build from there. And then Cosmic gave us another super chat. I'm getting such a civics lesson right now. Thank you for having. Having Maurice on. I'm learning a lot. Of course, friends. You know, it's really important. You know, April and I talk a lot about the show and trying to give you guys glimmers of hope and what can we do? This is what we can do. You know, Maurice and I have talked behind the scenes a bunch. He's been on the new Evangelicals podcast. If you. If you want a deeper episode, dive into all this, you can go find it. It's. I think. I think it came out earlier this year. But we have work to do, and the. The. We talk a lot at the New Evangelicals that there's a better path forward in faith. And I truly think what you're doing, Maurice, with the Working Families Party is a better path forward in politics as well. And, you know, I think it's really wonderful. I think it's really great. It's very. Dare I use the term, common sense? Like, yeah, like, why don't we want these things to happen? These are not crazy ideas. No one is saying that wealthy people can't keep onto their wealth. We're just saying that they should be taxed at a fair share to help cover, you know, what should be covered in the world's richest country. So I really appreciate you coming on and making time for us, you know, spending a few minutes and congrats, by the way, on. On the success that. That you and the party are having, and we wish you the best.

[Maurice Mitchell]

Thanks for having me and happy to come back more and chop it up with y'.

[Tim Whitaker]

All. Sounds good, man.

[Maurice Mitchell]

We'll keep in touch.

[Tim Whitaker]

See you later.

[April Ajoy]

Thanks, Maurice.

[Tim Whitaker]

Bye. Well, there we go, friends. That was fun.

[April Ajoy]

That was fun. Very encouraging.

[Tim Whitaker]

Encouraging, right? Encouraging. Like, I. I often get stuck. I'm sure many of us do. Like, okay, third party, right? You're just wasting your vote. That's kind of the rhetoric. But the Working Families Party kind of has a workaround. They're like, hey, well, we can attach to different people if, like, they're not in our direct, you know, political affiliation, and we can work with other candidates that maybe, you know, have a bigger reach anyway. It just. It.

[Courtney (Listener/Donor)]

I like.

[Maurice Mitchell]

I like.

[Tim Whitaker]

I like the pragmatism. I like what they stand for. I like that they are not about the billionaire class. And I like that Maurice is willing to acknowledge, which I think is important, how Democrats had a huge shift in the 90s. You know, it really pushed the working class out of their ranks and kind of pushed them right into Trump's arms. So there's a real argument to make for that, I think, for sure.

[April Ajoy]

Yeah. And now you can see we're not just Democratic shills.

[Tim Whitaker]

We're not paid by George Soros.

[April Ajoy]

I know that's what everyone says. Like, I mean, we don't really love Democrats either. I mean, they're. They're by far, by far the better option right now. But still. Yeah, yeah, you know, whatever. Should we get to our favorite segment?

[Tim Whitaker]

If you can stall so I can pull the clip up that I forgot to pull before this. So I have. I Have it.

[April Ajoy]

Here I am drinking. This is a cranberry vodka drink that I made before the show that I've drank very little of because I started feeling it real early on. I'm like, april, you're on a live. Yeah, let's reel this then.

[Tim Whitaker]

I was I. Okay, April, was I. Was I too loopy for a little bit there? I mean, I was feeling a little. A little unfiltered.

[April Ajoy]

No, no, you were just a little talkative, but you always are.

[Tim Whitaker]

So I'm sorry. I try to really temper myself, you know, I don't want to come across like I'm talking over you. I hate that. It's a horrible thing.

[April Ajoy]

No, it's fine. I do it sometimes, too.

[Tim Whitaker]

It's all good. I mean, you and I are friends, which makes it easier. I do have it.

[Maurice Mitchell]

I did pull it.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yep. Friends. Before we get to this segment again, if you're just joining live, thank you so much. Please make sure to give the stream on YouTube a like and subscribe to the channel if you're watching on substack. Welcome in. We go live every Thursday, 12 o' clock Eastern, right here on Lincoln Square Media. We are so grateful to be part of that family, that network. It's been really great working with them and having the show reach a wider audience. If you're looking for a better path forward in your faith, the new evangelicals is the place to go. Go to the newevangelicals.com connect join our free online community. You can get plugged in with great resources.

[April Ajoy]

Did we read all of our super chats? Are we up to date?

[Tim Whitaker]

I think so. Let me just double check.

[April Ajoy]

Okay. If we haven't read yours, let us know.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah. Okay. You ready?

[April Ajoy]

Yes. We Christian.

[Tim Whitaker]

Boom. Here we are. Okay, I'm just gonna play this. No context needed, right?

[April Ajoy]

Let's just play it.

[Tim Whitaker]

Today's weird Christian shit. Here we go.

[Maurice Mitchell]

I love to pray for people, for cars. You say, I need a car. Well, get on the phone, tell us what kind of car that you need, tell us what kind, and we're going.

[Tim Whitaker]

To believe God for your car. Now, this car is a sanctified car. So it goes to church, picks up people for church.

[Maurice Mitchell]

It doesn't play raunchy music, have sex.

[Tim Whitaker]

In the back seat.

[Maurice Mitchell]

No, this sanctified car, no wrecks. You know, it's not a lemon. This is a really, really good car.

[Tim Whitaker]

Okay, I have a question. I probably shouldn't do this. Do you think we can find her phone number and call on the air and ask for prayer?

[Courtney (Listener/Donor)]

For a car.

[Tim Whitaker]

Do you think we can do this?

[April Ajoy]

Okay. Her name is Marilyn Hickey. Okay? She's a televangelist. Marilyn Hickey Ministries. I don't know where. Let's see.

[Tim Whitaker]

Connect on the website.

[Maurice Mitchell]

Yep.

[Tim Whitaker]

I'm just going. Is there.

[April Ajoy]

There's a toll free number we have to call.

[Tim Whitaker]

I'm calling.

[Maurice Mitchell]

Are you caught?

[April Ajoy]

How drunk are you?

[Tim Whitaker]

I'm not drunk. I stopped. Look, there's a ton left.

[April Ajoy]

Also, like, I love the. The like caveat. She gives, like, I will pray for you a car, but that car is not going to be playing raunchy music. We have to call, not be having sex in that car.

[Tim Whitaker]

1, 8, 8. This is a public number. Okay, I'm gonna call.

[April Ajoy]

Are you. Did you find the website?

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah.

[April Ajoy]

Marilyn.

[Tim Whitaker]

Here we go. Hello, this is Marilyn Hickey and we're so happy you called. Your support helps us cover the earth with God's word. Please stay on the line while I connect you to one of our representatives who will be happy to help you. We have to do this right.

[April Ajoy]

What car are you going to ask?

[Tim Whitaker]

A Mercedes Benz. Go big or go home, right?

[April Ajoy]

Yeah.

[Tim Whitaker]

This is a bad idea. This is a good idea, right?

[April Ajoy]

I saw the video of her saying to call in and ask for a car.

[Caller or Listener]

Okay.

[Tim Whitaker]

Okay. You have reached Marilyn and Sarah Ministries. My name is Carlina. Yeah, hi. I just saw a video from Marilyn Hickey about praying for a car. And I wanted to pray for. Ask for prayer for a car. Okay.

[April Ajoy]

I'll be happy to pray with you.

[Tim Whitaker]

Can we start with your first name, please? My name is Bob. That's right. Thank you. Thank you, Bob, for sharing your prayer.

[April Ajoy]

Knee with me today. And I'll be happy to pray with you.

[Maurice Mitchell]

Okay.

[Tim Whitaker]

Dearly Father, thank you for all the ways. Okay, I hung up.

[Maurice Mitchell]

I felt.

[Tim Whitaker]

That felt too weird. I felt bad. I don't want to make her pray the whole thing. If she was sincere about it, you know, I was ready for them to ask me for money or something.

[April Ajoy]

Can I. Can I. This actually reminds me, I had to stop. Hold on. Someone in the chat said that this woman passed away. Hold on.

[Tim Whitaker]

No, she's dead. Oh, that was a bad idea.

[April Ajoy]

She clearly still has an active ministry. She didn't answer that. From the grave. Hold on. Alive. Marilyn Hickey alive.

[Tim Whitaker]

I had to hang it up.

[April Ajoy]

Wait. No, she's alive, okay? She just. She turned 94 on July 1st. No, she's still alive. That weird me out for a second. I was like, wait, she's dead?

[Tim Whitaker]

You know, I should ask Cassidy. I should have asked Cassidy if I should have done that. She's, she's a much better.

[April Ajoy]

Oh, no, she said that was her husband. She can't read. Okay, thanks. That weirded me out for a second. I was like, whoa, they're playing old videos of this woman and they're still answering calls.

[Tim Whitaker]

Oh, boy. I.

[April Ajoy]

Look, I'm a little disappointed that you didn't get in the specific car. Well, look, I, I know it felt weird.

[Tim Whitaker]

I have, I have a line. Okay? It's one thing to hear someone, like, try and grift you on the phone, but when they just start praying and they're sincere, it just, there's a, there's a line for me. Okay, thank you.

[April Ajoy]

I have a confession. What I. So I used to be a producer for cbn, right? Which is a Christian broadcasting network. So I was a producer for things that you would see on the 700 Club. Pat Robertson was before I repented of Christian nationalism. Okay? So every twice a year, they would make everybody go down and work the call center to answer, like, pledge drives and, like, offer prayer for people and blah, blah, blah, blah. But before I became a producer, I actually interviewed for the CBN call center, okay, which was a prayer center, which was a 247 call line where people can call in and ask for prayer. And so I went through the interview. I didn't take the job. They offered me the job, but I went through the interview. And in the interview, I kid you not, it was the weirdest thing I ever went through. They would give me different scenarios. Like, okay, this person called in and gave me some random situation that they had, and they're like, pray for them. And I had to pray for these. Like, I had to pretend to pray in these interviews. And I remember, like, even back then, and I was pretty even, I was very fundy still. I was like, right, this feels weird. Like I'm, I'm performing a prayer. Yep, it was just weird. But I've had some friends that worked in the call center, and they get some weird calls.

[Tim Whitaker]

I, I, I'm not a good friend.

[April Ajoy]

She didn't even flinch at the fact that you were like, I'd like to pray for a car. She's like, yeah, we got another one of these. Okay, cool.

[Tim Whitaker]

And then I said, bob and laughed and I put her on mute. I was cackling the whole time.

[April Ajoy]

Bless her heart.

[Tim Whitaker]

I'm a bad prankster. There are people who will go all the way through with the bit. I just have a limit where I get, like, so awkward. I'm like, I just can't do it. I can't do it anymore.

[April Ajoy]

You're giggling.

[Tim Whitaker]

You know, we're on the air, and, like, it's just. For me, there's. There. There are some ethical lines that I don't want.

[Maurice Mitchell]

If she.

[Tim Whitaker]

If she was. If she was gonna ask for money first, that's what I thought was gonna happen before I prayed. But when she went right. Right into it, I'm like.

[April Ajoy]

I was like, oh, that's kind of endearing.

[Tim Whitaker]

Look, if she's sincere, I don't wanna. I don't want to yuck her. Yum.

[Maurice Mitchell]

That's fair.

[Tim Whitaker]

You know?

[Courtney (Listener/Donor)]

That's fair.

[April Ajoy]

It was. It was a fun, different thing we've never done.

[Caller or Listener]

I don't know.

[Tim Whitaker]

I mean, look, I. I honestly am not that tipsy, but I will say having this bottleneck next to me doesn't really help. I don't know. It was a fun live. This was a more. I thought, more fun overall. We had a special guest for the first time on the show live. We had a nice blue wave. That feels good.

[Maurice Mitchell]

We.

[April Ajoy]

First time we had a guest live.

[Tim Whitaker]

Live. Who was the other guest we had.

[April Ajoy]

We've had Jessica M. On before. I thought.

[Tim Whitaker]

Oh, live, though. Was she live?

[April Ajoy]

I thought. I thought so.

[Tim Whitaker]

Maybe she was. I don't know.

[April Ajoy]

That's okay. It doesn't matter.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah, it was a fun one. It's a good show.

[April Ajoy]

Do we have more super chats? I think we do.

[Tim Whitaker]

We had a lot today. Thank you so much, friends. By the way, all super chats go to supporting the show and making this work possible. Oh, this is a good one from Nan V. George Soros told me to give you this. Thank you.

[April Ajoy]

Thanks, George.

[Maurice Mitchell]

Thanks, George.

[April Ajoy]

Finally. Finally getting something from George.

[Tim Whitaker]

I keep telling people, if George Soros funds us, we will tell people like, I will. I will proclaim from the mountains that we have George Soros money. Like, thank you, billionaire George Soros. I appreciate. Appreciate it.

[April Ajoy]

Yeah. Was that it? Are we done? Are we caught up?

[Maurice Mitchell]

Yep, we're caught up.

[April Ajoy]

All right. Thank you everybody, for the super chats and for joining us for this celebratory live. I'm sure some kind of crazy crap's gonna happen before our next live, and we're gonna be back to going, oh, fascism again next week. But for today, this day, we celebrate. Give our video a like, subscribe. Give it a heart if you're on substack. Thank you, Lincoln Square, for joining with us. If you listen on podcast, please give us a review, a rating. It helps so much. And I think that's all the plugs that I have for you today.

[Tim Whitaker]

Well, I'm Tim Whitaker.

[April Ajoy]

And I'm April Ajoy. Until next time.

[Tim Whitaker]

Bottoms up.

[April Ajoy]

Bottoms up.

[Tim Whitaker]

Sam.