B (2:09)

Well, listen, friends, welcome into the show. If you're watching on YouTube, welcome in. Please make sure to give this video a. Like, if you're watching on substack. Hello, we are the Tim and April Show. We are two former Christian conservative fundamentalists slash Christian nationalists. Now exposing that work and helping you find just either, you know, kind of the theology and kind of understand what's going on behind the scenes. And we are also very still Christian, just not in the Christian fundamentalist way. Please give that heart button thing on substack a smash or a. Like, I don't know what you do these days. Hit that button. So good to be with all of you. I am sad, and I'm sad for a really weird reason. I'm gonna start this show off on a really weird note right now. Whoa. I'm sorry. Mehdi Hassan has joined this live. I'm a humongous fan of Mehdi Hasan. So hello. I'm a little starstruck. Good to see you.

A (2:57)

You just made it weird. I'm sorry.

B (2:59)

I love his work so much. He's so great. So I go to America Fest every year, April. I go to Charlie Kirk's America Fest to cover it. I've gone the past three years in a row from, you know, the beginning pretty much until this year. And right now, America Fest is happening and I am not there. And it feels weird. Not because I support Turning Point usa, but because it's like one of the things I always do. And I'll be honest. And our producer Cassidy will tell you. And it's a lot of freaking work to spend three days in the belly of the beast. Talk to all kinds of people. I've met Andrew Colvette. I think that's his name. I've met Lucas Miles at Turning Point USA Faith. Like, we, we are in conversation when I'm there. And then I have to do an entire recap video. So if you do want to know what America Fest is like, friends, from an insider perspective, you can go to the New Evangelicals YouTube channel. And I have an hour long recap from my time there last year. But I decided against going this year because for several reasons, including my own personal safety, and also I did not want to risk causing a ruckus at Turning Point usa, given that they're going to be doing probably a massive memorial service to Charlie. So, anyway, I decided not to go this year. But yeah, it's weird, man. It's happening right now. I've gotten all the texts, all the notifications. I had my tickets bought, by the way. I had tickets bought. I had hotels booked. And then when Charlie was killed, I opted out.

A (4:26)

So, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's just a weird time. I. I even, like, you and I were talking earlier, especially in this last week, but really, it's been a, you know, accumulating. Accumulating, like since Trump took office in the second term. But this last week especially, it just feels like so many sad, terrible tragedies happened. With, you know, the Brown University shooting, the Bondi beach shooting against the Jewish community, and the Rob Reiners being murdered. It's just a lot. And it just kind of feels like too. Like too much, like. I don't know, sometimes I don't even know what to say because it's so. Like, the bad news is just constant.

B (5:10)

It's been a very intense and brutal year, I think, you know, in many, many respects, politically, I think, for sure, obviously. And yeah, I mean, last week, right, we had two mass shootings. One was in the States and one was in Australia. It was their worst mass shooting in 30 years. It was targeted towards the Jewish community. And obviously, you know, we stand with the Jewish community 100%. Anti Semitism is evil and vile and has no place in the world. And this is also, April, why you and I are very specific when we critique Israel. We're very clear in our language of who we're critiquing and why we're critiquing them. Right? We're critiquing the IDF and the nation state of Israel because they're committing genocide against the Palestinians, not because they're Jews or Jewish. Right? And that's. That's the final. That's the line we have to always draw because anti Semitism does exist in the world. We see it with the rise of people like, like Nick Fuentes in the Right. And we saw it in Australia. I think it's also really worth highlighting how there were several people who tried to stop those gunmen before the violence happened. It was a Jewish elderly couple. They were both killed, unfortunately, in the process. And Ahmed El Ahmed, who actually stopped one of the shooters, a Muslim man who put his life on the line for others. He was shot several times. He survived, thank God, and a major shout out to him for being a hero, you know, so that. That was really amazing to see. So, you know, it is. I'm with you. It's. It's. I don't know. I mean, I love holiday season, but it's just a really heavy time and. Yeah, it's tough. It's tough.

A (6:41)

Yeah, yeah.

B (6:42)

I don't know. It's just a tough time and there's no way around it. And a lot. I know a lot of influencer people and other folks that I talk to who do this kind of public work feel very exhausted. I talk to a lot of them behind the scenes and we all kind of feel exhausted. So, friends, it affects us on this side of the screen, too. We're not robots. We have families. We have lives. We see the news, we have our own things that we're going through. And yeah, it's tough. It's tough. Is it worth maybe just kind of talking about briefly, the response to the Bondi shooting by some of our favorite right wing people?

A (7:16)

Yeah, I mean, I think. I think it's worth it because I. One thing that we've seen a lot of MAGA people try to bring up out of this Bondi beach shooting is more Islamophobia and hatred against Muslims.

B (7:31)

Yes.

A (7:33)

Even though the hero of that day was also a Muslim. Yeah, it's. You know, we want to also make sure that that's being called out.

B (7:43)

This really is not very complicated. Extremism can exist in any religious sect. It can exist in non religious sects. It can exist anywhere. Okay. And so what the problem is this, right? No one would ever, would ever that I would talk to you, including Muslim friends of mine like Qasem Rashid. I've had him on the New Evangelicals podcast to talk about this. Right. Of course he would denounce any kind of violent act done in the name of. Of. Of Islam, just like how we would denounce any violent act done in the name of Christianity. That doesn't mean that the entire house of Christianity is inherently rotten. And the same thing goes for Islam. But for Christian nationalists, this is. This is how they weaponize these kinds of things. Right? So, Ali Stuckey. I think Ali's response is really worth highlighting here. Do you want me to read this one or do you want to read it?

A (8:31)

Sure, you can read it.

B (8:32)

All right. So Ali, on the back of this. This terrible mass shooting in Australia, says, I am thankful for the hero who saved lives on Bondi Beach. He's a good, brave man. Okay. Hey, props Ali. Great. Then she goes on to say, that changes nothing about the fact that Islam is inherently violent and bent on conquest. That's why nearly every global terrorist regime is Islamic as a whole. It is not compatible with Western civilization. If your empathy forbids you from saying this, your empathy is toxic and harmful. Eye roll. If you really love your neighbor, you'll start speaking up about the dangers of Islam with your chest and you'll demand your elected officials put an end to mass migration. I want to just unpack this very briefly and say a couple of things here, then I'll give it over to you. April 1st off, it is ironic that Ali says that's why every. That's why nearly every global terrorist regime is Islamic. And is Ali not aware of the American empire and the Terror that we rain on other countries all the time. This government that Ali has promoted and supports the actions of are currently sniping people in international waters in the name of drug enforcement. We're currently trying to overthrow the Venezuelan government and have a regime change there. We invaded Iraq under false pretenses. We invaded Afghanistan. We've been complicit in so many freaking topplings of different regimes to other parts of the world. We are the terrorist organization. But Ali is so steeped in her own white supremacy, in her own imperialism that she can't even realize how ridiculous she sounds. She has so much egg on her own face here that she really thinks that every global terrorist regime is Islamic, when in reality it depends on where you are and who you're and who's attacking you. According to a lot of people over there, we're the terrorist organization for waging a 10 year war in their countries. We bombed Iran without any kind of context this year. It's, that's unbelievable.

A (10:35)

The last thing I also, if you look. Oh, sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt you. On that note, she could all. You could easily just based on facts and looking at the history of Christianity, you could also come away with saying that Christianity is, is inherently violent and bent on conquest. The Crusades even, even like Protestant versus Catholic wars and like it's just, it's just disingenuous to, to point your finger and say Islam is only violent but Christians are only good. It's just, it's just everything is just much more nuanced than they try to make it up.

B (11:11)

It is propaganda and it's anti intellectual. Ali fails to mention how the Doctrine of Discovery was a terrorist document that gave colonizers permission to wipe out the indigenous people in America or to enslave them or to sexually assault them. Talk about terrorism, Ali. That was done in the name of the Christian God. Right? So again, Ali just really has. She is either intentionally misleading or she's just plain old ignorant. Either way, it's a bad look. And the other thing I'll mention briefly about this is that I love how she ties in toxic empathy. This is her whole mantra, her whole brand right now. And she ties it back to migration as if, as if the 2% of Muslims in America are somehow the threat in a nation run by Christian supremacists who believe that their God has given them a divine mandate to take over the nation and rule from the top down, usurping everyone else's rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. It's just unbelievable to witness. It really is.

A (12:11)

Yeah. Yeah. And I just want, I just want everyone to be aware too. Ali Bestucky is really pushing this anti Islam kick. Her pin tweet currently is that the number one concern of the people who follow her by far is an Islamic takeover of America, despite like Muslims being 1%, which I find I think like from a psychological standpoint is just very interesting that they're pivoting back to Islamic terror. And I think that's because they, they don't have a lot to talk about Trump wise because things are just really bad from just a logical standpoint. So they're pivoting to like the newest group to hate.

B (12:53)

Right. I mean, Christian fascism is always gonna look for a marginalized group to scapegoat, right? It's trans people, it's, it's Muslims, it's, you know, insert, it's DEI hires. There's always a new scapegoat to make. And the last comment we wanted to pull up briefly, then we'll get moving on because it would pack show Josh Howerton, who leads one of the, one of America's biggest mega churches. Okay, this guy is a mega church. Megachurch Pastor says in response to the horrible shooting in Australia, two things about Islam are simultaneously true. One, Jesus loves Muslims and wants them to be saved. Two, Jesus hates Islam and wants it to be destroyed. And now, I mean, honestly, Josh is pulling stuff out of his ass because Jesus never talked about Islam ever, ever. In fact, in Islam, in the Quran, Muhammad's very clear, they revere Jesus highly. Now there's a big difference about, you know, the divinity of Christ, all that for sure. It's a big difference between Christianity and Islam. But my God, like what is Josh talking about? Well, Josh is a Christian nationalist. Josh is a Christian supremacist. He believes that everyone who worships a different idea of God that isn't his God is worshiping a false God that is probably demonic and that's why he says this kind of stuff.

A (14:09)

So I just wanna say we recently did a two part video response to Josh Howerton's podcast about Christian nationalism. So if you want to see our thoughts on Josh. Also, I wanna say you could, anyone can just pull stuff out of their butt like that. Like I could easily be like, here are things that Jesus feels about Christian nationalism. One, Jesus loves all Christian nationalists and wants them to be saved. And two, Jesus hates Christian nationalism and wants it to be destroyed. Like you can do that about anything. It doesn't make it exactly. They say it so matter of fact, it's so annoying.

B (14:43)

It is so annoying. Yeah, no, great point. And you can find that friends on our podcast or on our YouTube channel. That's where those videos live.

A (14:50)

Yeah. Okay, a couple quick things before we move on to. We've got a lot to get to. We're going to talk about Trump speech last night and that Vanity Fair article. It'll be a jam packed, coming in hot. I just want to say real quick, housekeeping wise, we're not going to go live next Thursday because it's Christmas.

B (15:07)

Could you imagine if we did? Hey, babe, I'm sorry, I can't make family stuff. I gotta go live on Thursday.

A (15:15)

Yeah, no, my. My children would be quite peeved. They had to wait to open presents. Like, sorry, gotta go live. So. Well. But instead, we're gonna go live on Tuesday, December 23rd. Save time at noon. We'll go live then instead. And then also, this is a total sidebar, but the deadline for the Trump administration to release the Epstein files is tomorrow. Okay, Friday. And I just want to be aware, to see what sort of chaos they're going to try to come up with. Maybe it's part of this Vanity Fair article. I don't know. To distract from that.

B (15:45)

Yeah, Just to know. All right, before we get into Trump's speech, I have a little montage of that. Friends, the New the Tim and April show is sponsored and produced by the New Evangelicals. It's an organization that I founded that helps people reject Christian nationalism and find a better path forward in faith. Right now, as a nonprofit, it's our end of year giving time. So if you want to support this show that you currently are tuning into and you want to help make this a really successful 2026, please consider becoming a donor. Our goal is to find a thousand people to donate at $5 a month that helps us plan for the future. We also have free resources. We have a free community space called TNE Connect. You can go to thenewevangelicals.com support to donate or. Or you can buy one of our limited edition shirts, the one that I'm wearing. All that stuff is at the new evangelicals.com. all right. Yeah. So Trump, I. We gotta laugh, right? If we don't laugh, we're gonna cry.

A (16:39)

I watched this live.

B (16:41)

Yeah. Poor you. Poor you. What a waste.

A (16:45)

It was such a waste.

B (16:46)

This is. So what I did was I went through it. It's an 18 minute speech. I pulled a 2 1/2 minute montage of some of the highlights. Here we Go. Here's what you missed last night if you didn't tune in.

C (16:57)

Good evening, America. Eleven months ago, I inherited a mess and I'm fixing it. When I took office, inflation was the worst in 48 years and some would say in the history of our country. This happened during a Democrat administration. And it's when we first began hearing the word affordability. Our border was open, and because of this, our country was being invaded by an army of of 25 million people, many who came from prisons and jails, mental institutions and insane asylums. We had men playing in women's sports. Transgender for everybody. I'm at record levels with law enforcement and words such as that just absolutely forbidden. Over the past 11 months, we have brought more positive change to Washington than any administration in American history. We have broken the grip of sinister woke radicals in our schools. I've restored American strength, settled eight wars in 10 months, destroyed the Iran nuclear threat and ended the war in Gaza, bringing for the first time in 3,000 years, peace to the Middle East. I am bringing those high prices down and bringing them down very fast. How big is that? One year ago, our country was dead. We were absolutely dead. I negotiated directly with the drug companies and foreign nations to slash prices on drugs and pharmaceuticals by as much as 400, 500 and even 600%. The current unaffordable Care act was created to make insurance companies rich. A major factor in driving up housing costs was the colossal border invasion. At the same time, illegal aliens stole American jobs and flooded emergency rooms, getting free health care and education paid for by you, the American taxpayer. Look at Minnesota, where Somalians have taken over the economics of the state and have stolen billions and billions of dollars from Minnesota and indeed from the United States of America. And we're going to put an end to it. Soon. We will host the World cup and the Olympics, both of which I got. Each and every one of you have a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year. God bless you all.

B (19:20)

The end. Now, look, we're not going to go.

A (19:25)

To drug prices by 600%.

B (19:30)

I'm so glad you brought this up. Look, we're not going to fact check everything he said because you'll be here for the entire show. You can go online and find most almost of all what he says. Total bullshit. But I got a laugh because CNN did their typical fact check thing, right? Like we fact check Trump's speech. Here's what they wrote. I'm going to read it word for word about prescription drug prices. And let me tell you, the way I cackled reading this. Here's what they said. Trump repeated his false claim that an executive order he issued on prescription drug prices will cut those prices by as much as 400, 500, even 600%. These figures are mathematically impossible. If the President magically got the companies to reduce the price of all their drugs to zero, that would be a 100% cut. You can read a longer fact check here. Literally, CNN having to teach people basic arithmetic.

A (20:19)

April, that would mean that you're paying people to take the drugs. You're giving people the drugs and the money. Like, what is my favorite line that he said? This is just being petty. It wasn't in this montage. But he was talking about all the drugs being brought in and he said drugs were brought in by ocean and by sea.

B (20:44)

I did this.

A (20:45)

Not ocean and sea.

B (20:47)

He is a walking. He's a walking, like SNL skit. He's. I mean, look, friends, friends. To let you know how bad this was, even Matt Walsh, the racist, imperialist, right wing MAGA sick of fan, said that was perhaps the most pointless primetime presidential address ever delivered in American history. Yes, Matt, you're right on this. You're right. You agree with us. I'm so glad.

A (21:13)

Yeah. So I will say the one thing that he announced in that 20 minute diatribe was that he's giving Christmas bonus checks to military service people. And the amount that he's giving them is $1,776 in honor of 1776 and America's 250th birthday.

B (21:34)

Right.

A (21:34)

So I guess that was the point of the announcement. But it felt like it could have.

B (21:38)

Been an email easily. I mean, also someone. Can we just say someone wrote that for him. Someone on his staff wrote that line about cutting drug prices by 400, 500, 600%. And somehow that passed all the checkers that said, yup, this is good. No, run it.

A (21:59)

When he's reading teleprompter or just like going off, because they all sound. Anyway, you know what he sounds like? He's just like bragging about all of these amazing things that he did. He sounds like, you know, like when you're in school, like in elementary school, and you'd have that one kid that just told very elaborate stories, like they come back from spring break and they're like, oh, yeah, we went to the ocean and a shark attacked and I punched him and I. And I killed the shark and I saved my whole family and the mayor gave me an award. And like, he's selling all this stuff, and he genuinely believes things that, like, everyone around him believes him. Because we're all just kind of like, rolling our eyes because, like, yeah, we know that that didn't happen, but that's how Trump comes across.

B (22:40)

To me, yeah, this is where we are in American politics. It is. It's been 10 years of this shit. 10 years of white evangelicals and Christians saying, this is the dude. This is the guy that got us anointed, that we have to get behind, you know, all the way, so.

D (23:00)

Hey, everyone, this is Melinda Hale, the executive director of the New Evangelicals. Listen. Every day we hear from people who feel isolated, disillusioned, and hurt by a version of Christianity that has been hijacked by politics and nationalism. And yet they still long for a faith that is rooted in love, justice, and compassion. And that's why the New Evangelicals exist, because we believe there is a better path forward. We're creating resources, hosting conversations, and we're building communities for people who want to reclaim Christianity and stay rooted in the teachings of Jesus. But building a movement like this takes time. It takes energy, and it takes financial support. So if this podcast or our YouTube, our educational offerings or community space or anything that we've created has impacted you, would you consider becoming a donor? Even a gift of $5 makes a huge difference for small organizations like this. Your support helps us to continue empowering people to put their faith into action by rejecting Christian nationalism and to live in a way that shows people how to truly love our neighbors. Together, I know that we could build something beautiful. So visit the newevangelicals.com support to give today. You can find the link right in our show notes. Thank you for standing with us.

A (24:15)

So Vanity Fair dropped this two part article. It's a very, very long article. And it took place, it was like multiple interviews over the last year, I think, since I don't know when the first one was, but it was over a long period of time. And there was multiple interviews where they interviewed Susie Wiles, who is the chief of staff.

B (24:36)

I got a picture of her, I think. Where is she? There she is. The enforcer.

A (24:43)

Yeah. So they have all these little write ups, and then they also featured Caroline Levitt, Marco Rubio, Stephen Miller, a couple others.

B (24:52)

Yeah, they have like the mouse wild. They are wild.

A (24:56)

Extreme close ups. Yeah, yeah. So I don't know. Where should we begin? So first of all, the photos themselves, a lot of people, there was a lot of pushback on him. People said it's kind of mean. Other people are saying it's kind of brilliant to make these people who think of themselves as these super powerful people, making them look small.

C (25:20)

Yeah.

B (25:22)

Yes.

D (25:23)

Okay.

A (25:23)

Yeah.

B (25:25)

Few thoughts here. First off, let's talk about this kind of photo. So for the, for the audience on podcast, I'm looking at the photo of Stephen Miller. He's sitting in a very, like, large on a sofa. And it's, it looks like big, like he looks small on it. And then the picture behind him also looks humongous. I, I what? Here's why I love these particular pictures, because they really humanize the people that want the myth that they are larger than life characters with unlimited power, Right? Like, oh, this is the person who is Trump's chief of staff. Like, she looks like an average woman that I would just see if I was in the grocery store, wouldn't think twice. Like, she looks like a normal civilian. Oh, this is the person who, you know, is, is peddling in Nazi rhetoric and responsible for the massive ICE raids that are happening and tries to present himself as some, like, villain character. Oh, he's just a typical, average man who's bald. Okay. And it's again, it's not about body shaming. It's just saying that these are normal people. They are approachable, they're touchable. And that's why I love these photos. I do. I really, I mean, wow. They're just people. Like, turns out these are people doing bad things to other people. They're not gods. Right? They're not these, like, mythical creatures we've made in our head that are like, they're over there. No, they're right here. So I love that the article is big. It's two parts. The first part is paywall free. If you have Apple News, you can read part two. It's included in your subscription. And it's, I gotta be honest, April, I pulled, especially in part one, a ton of excerpts from Susie Wiles, because the main thrust of the article is that this journalist had really unprecedented access to Susie Wiles, who is Trump's chief of staff. She's the person who people call the Trump whisper her. She is the person who is, like, pulling a lot of the strings. Trump listens to her, all that stuff. So a few, I mean, there's a bunch. I'll try and get through a few of these so we can kind of go through them. But a few things really stuck out to me. First, one of the quotes here I have is, according to the journalist Trump, she told me that Susie has an alcoholic personality. Vance's conversion from never Trumper to maga acolyte, she said, has been sort of political. The vice president, she added, has been a conspiracy theorist for a decade. Russell Vaught, architect of the notorious Project 2025 and head of the Office of Management and Budget, is a, quote, right wing, absolute zealot. This is according to Trump's chief of staff. Okay. When I asked her what she thought of Musk reposting a tweet about public sector workers killing millions under Hitler, Stalin and Mao, she replied, I think that's when he's microdosing. She says she doesn't have firsthand knowledge. That is wild for someone on the inside of the regime. And they are a regime. They're not administration. They're a regiment. It's wild for her to be saying that. I mean, Trump has an alcoholic personality. Wow. Wow. But there's more, there's more. A couple other quotes I wanted to read here that I think are really important. Let's see this one. This is according to Susie Wiles. So many decisions of great consequence are being made on the whim of the president. And as far as I can tell, the only force that can direct or channel that whim is Susie. A former former Republican chief told me that is scary. That's scary.

A (28:54)

But at least there's someone. But this woman can help with the whim. I don't know.

B (28:59)

But Susie admits that she's a conspiracy theorist. She admits that there's a deep state. Like, that's the thing is, like, if you read this article, Susie is another zealot. She's someone who is in the White House helping Trump accomplish his plans. There's no more checks and balances.

A (29:14)

There was a quote that she said in the. In part one. I don't know if you pulled it, but she was basically comparing herself to previous chief of staff from the first term who were. Did you pull that? Yes, because I feel like this is particularly telling.

B (29:29)

Well, I had this one Vance described. While his approach to the chief's job, there is this idea that people have had that I think was very common in the first administration. He told me that their objective was to control the president or influence the president or even manipulate the president because they had to in order to serve their national interest. That's the quote you're talking about. Right. But in, in, in Wall's case, her job is to make the president's goals come true. So it's a whole shift where the first administration people were trying to keep him reined in.

A (29:59)

And now we have the country.

B (30:01)

Exactly. And now we have an administration or regime that, that is all about making sure whatever he wants done at any given moment gets done. Any whim he wants magically happens. There's a quote about the tariff thing too. I mean, I have so many quotes here that I think is just so worth talking about. Let me find this one. Oh, okay. This is, this is, this is Susie Wiles talking about the deep state. This is when I was like, oh my gosh, this woman is like deeply embedded in this stuff. People talk about the deep state. Being at the State Department, Wiles said it's not. It's the military industrial complex. Hegseth, in her view, is just the guy to take on the powers that be. She referred to Health and human services secretary RFK Jr another world class disruptor, as quote, my Bobby and quirky Bobby. In Weill's view, RFK Jr shock treatment of HHS is warranted. Quote, he pushes the envelope, some would say too far. But I say in order to get back to the middle, you have to push it too far. In December, Kennedy's federal vaccine panel voted to end decades long recommendations for newborn vaccinations against hepatitis B, which is highly infectious and causes liver failure. So Susie Wiles is not someone who's like, yeah, I'm trying to rein it in. She's like, no, this is great, this is great. We love that RFK is gutting decades and decades of scientific precedent that we know saves lives. This is a good thing.

A (31:25)

Right? And there were moments in there too where she even said that she pressed the President on like the tariffs and even Musk was like, you can't just kick people out of their offices but then eventually just still falls right back in line. Which I find diabolical that you can have like moments of clarity. Like even with the USAID cut. She says in a quote too. I don't know if you have that one that she's like, that's actually where she talks about the usaid.

B (31:54)

I had that whole segment. I think that's really worth reading in its entirety.

A (31:57)

Yes, we should. Yes, agreed. Did you pull a screenshot or you're just going to read it?

B (32:01)

I can screenshot it real quick probably, and pull it. It's like in my notes. So let me see if I can grab it. Can you stall? Can you?

A (32:09)

Yes, I can stall.

B (32:11)

I have it here. Hold on, let me find it.

A (32:13)

Okay. Yeah. So if you're just tuning in, we're talking about the Vanity Fair article. It's a two parter. There's also the Editor's note, where they talked about what it was like going and doing this article, which I find also interesting. Which. One of my favorite quotes of the whole thing is in that. Which we'll get to get to. They. They described Caroline Levitt's, like, decor. Like whole vibe in her office was giving live laugh. Lie. They actually said that. Which I thought was. I found it pretty great.

B (32:48)

Okay, give me a second, friends. You know, I'm producing and commentating all at the same time. Thanks for being patient. Let's see if you can actually read this though, April, because I think your voice, you're. You're a better reader than I am on this stuff, so.

A (33:00)

Oh, I can always pull up. Yeah. Is this. Oh, no, I got.

B (33:03)

I got it, I got it, I got it, I got it. Yeah, here it is. Here it is. Okay, let me just zoom in a little bit so it's readable, hopefully.

A (33:11)

Well, I can pull it up too, if.

B (33:14)

Yeah, it's this one here you're talking about right.

A (33:15)

Under a firewall now.

E (33:16)

Oops.

B (33:17)

Under a firewall or paywall?

A (33:20)

Paywall. That's what I meant to say.

B (33:21)

Can you read this?

A (33:22)

I went to fire tunnels. Pentecostal? Yeah, I think so. I gotta make myself.

B (33:26)

This whole section is really worth reading.

A (33:29)

Okay.

B (33:30)

Yes, Just start from the top.

A (33:32)

So it says Musk triggered the first true crisis of the Trump presidency. And an early test for Wiles. Trump's chief was shocked when the SpaceX founder eviscerated USAID, the United States Agency for International Development. Quote, this is Wiles talking, quote, I was initially aghast. Wiles told me, quote, because I think anybody that pays attention to government and has ever paid attention to USAID believed, as I did, that they do very good work. In his executive order freezing foreign aid, Trump had decreed that life saving programs should be spared. Instead, they were shuttered. Quote, this is Wiles again. Quote, when Elon said, we're doing this, he was already into it, said Wiles. And that's probably because he knew it would be horrifying to others. But he decided that it was a better approach to shut it down, fire everybody, shut them out, and then go rebuild. Not the way I would do it.

B (34:25)

Absolutely insane.

A (34:27)

Wiles knew that fixing this was on her. Quote, the president doesn't know and never will. She told me. He doesn't know the details of these smallish agencies. Wiles says she called Musk on the carpet. Quote, you can't just lock people out of their offices, she recalls telling him. At first, Wiles didn't grasp the effect that slashing USAID programs would have on humanitarian aid. Quote, I didn't know a lot about the extent of their grant making, end quote. But with immunizations halted in Africa, lives would be lost. Soon she was getting frantic calls from relief agency heads and former government officials with a dire message. Thousands of lives were in the balance. Wiles continued, quote, so Marco is. Marco is on his way to Panama. We call him and say, your Senate confirmed. You're going to have to be the custodian essentially of usaid. Okay, he says. But Musk forged ahead, all throttle, no break. Elon's attitude is you have to get it done fast. If you're an criminalist, you just won't get your rocket to the moon. Weil said. And so with that attitude, you're going to break some China. But no rational person could think the USAID process was a good one. Nobody. The shuttering of USAID crippled the President's Emergency Plan for AIDS relief, or PEPFAR. The antiretroviral program launched with $15 billion by George W. Bush in 2003 was credited with preventing millions deaths.

B (35:54)

Millions of deaths.

A (35:55)

Millions. It depended on USAID grants. In an interview with the Financial Times, Bill Gates remarked, the picture of the world's richest man killing the world's poorest children is not a pretty one.

B (36:05)

Damn. Damn. I mean, this is what. Oh, I want to mention this for those who can't see it. There's a great quote from, from someone about Wiles on the left and it says she's a go to church every Sunday. Uses a swear word very rarely. Person. Blair Wiles, 36 year old deputy chief of staff said, quote, she doesn't raise her voice, but she likes being around junkyard dogs. I love that because they're contrasting literally the mission and teachings of Jesus to heal the sick and take care of the poor with this administration killing people. Like, how much else to say? There's been studies done that the way the world's richest man was allowed to enter into USAID and gut the program. Don't forget, Musk was not an elected official. Official. No one democratically elected him. No one gave him the authority. He was not a government official. He went around Congress, he went around the Senate, he took away funds that were already appropriated for USAID and he just said, I don't care. It's done. No thought. Thoughtful, thoughtless. And the result is that people have died. People have died because of these actions under the Trump administration. It's unbelievable.

A (37:22)

Yeah. So is there more? Are There more quotes you wanted to bring up?

B (37:25)

I mean, we could be here all day talking about quotes. I got to go.

A (37:27)

We could be here all day.

B (37:28)

I think that these kinds of quotes really showed me like these things that we already said. And oh, this one I'll mention as well about regarding ICE deportations. According to the journalist here, not long after the El Salvador deportation Fiasco In Louisiana, ICE agents arrested and deported two mothers along with their children, ages 7, 4 and 2 to Honduras. The children were US citizens and the 4 year old was being treated for stage 4 cancer. Wiles couldn't explain it. This is un. This is like egregious shit. It's egregious.

A (38:02)

It takes a certain level of. I don't want to be like sensationalized, but I think evil is the right term or just like you have to. I don't know what it takes for someone to be aware that people are dying because of actions that you co signed.

B (38:24)

Right.

A (38:25)

And, and still stand by the side of the President.

B (38:30)

Exactly, exactly. This is according to Harvard. Harvard. Harvard, Harvard. I could talk Harvard. USAID shutdown has led to hundreds of thousands of deaths. This is a study done on USA usaid. Again, like, this is April. I'm with you. Like you and I because we grew up in like high control, like fundamentalist Christianity where things were so extreme. Right. We're in a batt against good and evil. I think that in our, like, renegotiation of how we are Christians, we've been very careful to use some of that language again because we don't want to come across like another type of zealot, so to speak. But we, I think at the same time, when you're watching a regime that is deporting US citizens with stage four cancer and the chief of staff can't give an answer to that. When you're reading studies that the actions of this government have led to the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people. When you see how Trump talks about other people and the white supremacy that's been emboldened under his administration, what other word can we use but evil? I mean, it's antichrist. It goes. It's against. It's against like the narrative of. Even in the scripture, right. These are not representatives of Jesus. They are representatives of empire. And empire is built on the exploitation and the death of the people below it. And that's what we're watching. What other word is there besides evil? We have to call it that, I think at this point.

A (39:57)

Yeah. So interestingly enough, this article drops and then Susie Wiles tweets out. Obviously mad about the article. She tweets out the article, published early this morning, is a disingenuously framed hit piece on me and the finest president, White House staff and cabinet in history. Significant context was disregarded and much of what I and others said about the team and the President was left out of the story. I assume after reading it that this was done to paint an overwhelmingly chaotic and negative narrative about the President and our team. The truth is, the Trump White House has already accomplished more in 11 months than any other president has accomplished in eight years, and that is due to the unmatched leadership and vision of President Trump, for whom I have been honored to work for the better part of a decade. None of this will stop our relentless pursuit of making America great again. It's interesting. I've seen a lot of people come out to say that things were taking out of context. I have yet to see them say what specifically was taken out of context. I mean, they are quoting you.

B (41:10)

Well, that's kind of. That's always the tactic, right? Like, like when Charlie Kirk was killed and people brought up his own words, what was the tactic? Oh, you're taking him out of context. Okay, what's the context? They don't give you one because that is the context. That's the context. It's just a way to deflect. It's kind of like when Black Lives Matter. Right. Really took off as a mantra. And what was the response? All lives Matter? Well, that was just a response to get around facing the systemic injustice of the black community. Because here we are now under the All Lives Matter regime, and they're killing Venezuelans in boats. They're deporting kids with cancer. Right. They're targeting immigrants who they don't like, who are brown skinned. Obviously. All lives don't matter for them. Really. White lives mostly matter for them. Right. That, that, that's the whole trick to this. That's why we call propaganda.

A (41:56)

Yeah, totally. So, obviously a lot of people are talking about, out of all the photos, this photo of Caroline Levitt, it's an extreme close up. I think she's 28. Like, she's. And her husband I think is 60, which we've talked about before.

B (42:12)

Yeah. He's 20 something years older than her.

A (42:15)

Yeah. But in this photo, you can see little injection points from where she got lip filler.

B (42:25)

Yeah.

A (42:25)

Like you could see it. It's, it's pretty clear. And so a lot of people are pointing out that it was cruel of the photographer to post This, I mean, and they. He did extreme close ups also of JD Vance and Marco Rubio. And I just want to point out that I think people are shining light on this and the trolling by Vanity Fair. To me, it has less to do with. Well, on Caroline Lovett has less to do with, like showing her in a bad light as much. For me, it shows like, the hypocrisy of how much people like her rail against gender affirming care.

B (43:04)

Yeah.

A (43:04)

While she's getting gender affirming care. Like, you could see it on her lips. And I don't like, it has nothing to do with lip, like lip feeler. I mean, there does seem to be a lot of MAGA women that do it to an extreme. I don't know. I've never had lip filler. But I have no problem for people with people who want to get it right. But to me, it's just like the, the hypocrisy too, of like, I don't know.

B (43:27)

Well, look, this is, this is where the fine line is, right? This is not about body shaming people. I mean, look, a face, a close up of my face, like, this would be a jump scare. Like, wow, Tim.

A (43:36)

I think Jesus on anybody's face.

B (43:38)

But again, what's the point of. I think the point is to humanize these people, right? To show that they are humans. They get work done like many people do. They have parts of their face that has wrinkles in it. I mean, my face has wrinkles in this. Right. But again, it's about humanizing and saying, actually, you're not gods. You're not gods. Like, you're not infallible. You have blemishes, you have marks. And the photographer was asked like, well, why, why didn't you like, Photoshop this out? And he was like, well, I'm a, I'm, I'm. I'm a journalistic photographer. Why would I Photoshop out what's real? This is the reality, you know, this is, this is just who these people are. And again, it's not about getting lip fill or like, you know, more power to you. It's the image that they try and present all the time.

A (44:23)

Right.

B (44:24)

And I think what this, what these photos do is it really unmasks them as just normal, everyday human beings who do not have the world revolve around them, even though they claim, you know, or they act like it does. I think that that's the lesson for me in this, anyway. 100%, you know.

A (44:41)

Yeah. Yeah.

B (44:41)

So do you want, do you want to Pull up Caroline's response to this.

A (44:45)

Sure, yeah, pull it up.

B (44:46)

I had that for you. So, of course, this article comes out, makes a lot of waves. Here's Caroline's response.

F (44:52)

As for the Vanity Fair article, Michael, I'll take your question directly. This is unfortunately another example of disingenuous reporting where you have a reporter who took the chief of staff's words wildly out of context, did not include the context those conversations were had within. And then further, I think the most egregious part of this article was the bias of omission that was clearly present. And we see a lot of this when dealing with the media every day. You will leave out important context, leave out comments and facts. You know, many people in this building spoke with that reporter, and those comments were never included in the story, probably because it didn't push this false narrative of chaos and confusion that the reporter was clearly trying to push. So what I'll say about our chief of staff, as you've seen from not just myself, but also the entire Cabinet in a groundswell of support from people on Capitol Hill who don't even work in this building, about how incredible Susie Wiles has been to President Trump, and he's been able to accomplish so much because of his leadership and his tenacity, but also because of Chief of Staff Wiles leadership and her ability to effectuate his agenda. So, thank you.

B (46:04)

Look, I want to be clear. I read the article. It didn't read as chaos and disorder. It actually read as Trump has a team around him that is getting whatever he wants done on a whim, and they don't care about the effects or consequences, or they don't have the knowledge about their own positions to know how these decisions affect other people. So I wouldn't call it really chaos. It just seems more like organized tyranny, frankly, in my opinion.

A (46:28)

I mean, I definitely think it read a little chaotic, like, just the way that they talk. But here's the thing. You don't need to read the Vanity Fair article to think that the Trump administration is chaotic. I mean, just look at what Donald Trump did with tariffs, right? They were on one day, they were off the next day. It was 20% one day. It was 100% the next day. And then he was like, no, we're going to. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, it is chaotic. That's not. I feel like that's almost a factual description at this point. If you're just looking at what has transpired over the last several months, I just think it's to me, one, I think it's interesting that they even agreed to do this. You know, I mean, it took place over months. I think it was 11 interviews that they did with Susie Wiles. So it's also a little silly that they were like, well, they left a lot out. Obviously they're going to leave a lot out. Otherwise it would just be a book, you know, it would be a giant manuscript to read. So they're going to leave some stuff out, but they're not specifying what was taken out of context. I don't know what more context you need for certain things. But to me, it's really interesting how even Donald Trump is defending what she said. When she said he had an alcoholic personality, he said, this is what Trump said. In defense of what she said, Trump said, no, she meant that I'm. You see, I don't drink alcohol, so everybody knows that. But I've often said that if I did, I'd have a very good chance of being an alcoholic. I have said that many times about myself. I do. It's a very possessive, possessive personality. I've said that many times about myself. I'm fortunate I'm not a drinker. If I did, I could very well. Because I've said that. What's the word? Not possessive, possessive and addictive type personality. Oh, I've said it many times. Many times before. End quote.

B (48:07)

That's his exact wording.

A (48:08)

Weird, huh?

B (48:10)

That's like his exact wording. Wow.

A (48:12)

Yeah, I was, I was reading a quote and then also J.D. vance, he, he defended her, too. He said, I didn't read it, but I don't read Vanity. Oh, wait, hold on. That's Trump. Hold on, Let me go back to, to Vance. Trump said he didn't read it, by the way, but Vance was also defending what she said. Hold on, I've, I got the quote here.

C (48:32)

Oh, yeah.

A (48:33)

He said, sometimes I am a conspiracy theorist. He said, but I only believe in the conspiracy theories that are true. And by the way, Susie and I have joked in private and in public about that for a long time. It's just weird to me how they're all like, oh, you know, she had a point. Like, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know what their end goal is. It's, it's just, they just love Susie, I guess. I don't know.

B (48:56)

When everything that, when, when 95% of what you do is built on lies, you just keep twisting yourself into more and more lies and contradictions. Right? Caroline Levitt's like, this is a hit piece. And J.D. vance is like, no, actually, yeah, I am a conspiracy theorist. Okay, well, like, which is it then? Is this a hip piece? Or like, is it true?

A (49:14)

Right, right.

B (49:14)

It can't be. Like, it's one of the. It's one or the other. And that's what we've been experiencing with Trump since the beginning. Wasn't it his regime in the first time, that. First time that coined the turn the term alternative facts?

A (49:28)

Yeah.

B (49:28)

You know, like, this is the entire. The entire ethos of Trump and who he has in office is built on lies. I mean, the fact checking alone of this 18 minute speech, it's like 9 out of 10 things he said isn't true. Some things he just pulled out of his ass. Like he made a comment about. About how there's been an $18 trillion investment in America. There's no evidence of that by any stretch of the imagination. He just said says shit. And that's because for a lot of these, like, Christian nationalist types, because we all know that Christian nationalists are in the tank for Trump. They have been since the beginning. And in particular, white evangelicals, where white Christian nationalism is most concentrated, have voted for Trump at the level of 80% in every single election, which, by the way, is higher than Bush. And the question you have to ask yourself is why? Well, I think for them, Trump is their epistemology. Trump is where they get their understanding of what they think is true. So if Trump says something, it doesn't matter if data backs it because Trump said it, it's automatically the new gospel. This is what happened during the 2020 election. Right. TRUMP just started saying stuff, oh, the election's rigged. There was no evidence of that. In fact, the evidence said the opposite. But what did white evangelicals do? 7 out of 10 at one point believe the election was stolen, facts be damned. That's how this. That's the foundation of it. You know, it's in. The results are dire. They're bad.

A (50:55)

I want to point out one last thing before we move on from this segment, and I. Do you have the screenshot of what they wrote about Caroline Levitt?

B (51:03)

Yes, yes, I grabbed that as requested. I did grab that.

A (51:07)

So this was in the editorial. It was the editor's letter about the Vanity Fair piece. Yes. And so this was a description of what it was like when they went to interview or take pictures of Caroline Levitt. It says then Caroline Levitt was ready for us. Levitt has brought revolution to the White House press briefing room. Prevaricating on everything from tariffs and soybean sales to condom contracts and Tylenol. Her office has a working fireplace and a uniformed guard to light it. The decor, an American flag throw blanket, seasonal pumpkin pillows invoked a certain Live Laugh Lie hominess. On her desk, a Stanley cup and a floral coffee mug sat next to a pink calendar offering aphorisms by the flip. Sitting below framed pictures of the President with Levitt and her family were a white orchid, a pink globe, and a Bible open to Proverbs 4 quote, get wisdom at all costs.

B (52:02)

Is that not just hilarious? I think that's why, April, you and I are, like, so passionate about this, because, like, they're. They. She has the Bible open to that quote and thinks that she's found wisdom by being a propagandist for the most vile regime in our lifetime, that is deporting children with stage four cancer back to a country they've never known. And they're U.S. citizens. And she has somehow convinced herself that she's doing the will of God. This woman prays before every single briefing. Have you seen her? Have you seen her with her team praying?

A (52:38)

I have.

B (52:39)

It is. It's the epitome of what Jesus said. These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. That's exactly what this is. It is unreal.

A (52:48)

There's even that. There's even videos of them praying before that they post.

B (52:52)

Yes, yes, exactly. It's. It's ridiculous.

A (52:55)

So I do think Live Laugh Lie is a perfect description for the MAGA women.

B (53:00)

That should be a T shirt somewhere. I'm just going to throw that out there for someone to make that sound.

A (53:05)

I think. I think think, too. Some people were like, why would Vanity Fair even do this and give them that platform? And I. When I read that paragraph, I was like, oh, I know why this makes sense, though.

B (53:14)

Yeah.

A (53:15)

There's like a little conspiracy theory part of me that's like. Or this is just one big distraction from the Epstein files. Yeah. Because again, tomorrow is the deadline, and Mike Johnson, or like, House Republicans have already said that they're going home a day early again, so they're not even going to be in session tomorrow.

B (53:33)

Maybe it's worth making an honorable mention here. Then we'll go. Then we'll go to our next story and kind of break from this. So I don't know if people know this, but Mike Johnson intentionally stopped the Affordable Care act subsidy bill that Democrats and some Republicans wanted to bring to the floor to extend ACA subsidies that would help millions of people afford healthcare in next year. I'm sure we've all seen the stories or have felt ourselves the cost of our healthcare skyrocketing. He killed that bill. But you know what bill they did pass? They passed the bill that would ban gender affirming care for minors. Okay, this is so ridiculous. First off, let me be very clear.

A (54:11)

That was like, that was her bill.

B (54:12)

Let me be very clear about something.

A (54:14)

Because I look baddie.

B (54:15)

I looked up the, I looked up the data on this point. 1% of minors have received some type of gender affirming care. None of which includes any kind of surgical procedure.1%. Okay? It is a fraction of a fraction. And the studies show that gender affirming care saves lives. It's data backed. This house, led by Christian nationalist Mike Johnson, has no problem forcing premiums to skyrocket. Someone just put in the chat that their deductible went up to fifteen hundred dollars. I'm assuming that's their monthly cost. They don't meet deductible. I've seen my deductible go up and my monthly costs. I have friends of mine who have more than tripled in their monthly premium. That's totally fine. But we have to make sure that we put a bill in place that affects 0.1% of the US population who actually need this care with their doctors and family support. What happened to like big government staying out of the family unit? It's never about that. It's just so, man, the rage in my bones over this shit. Like people are gonna not be able to afford their healthcare or they're gonna go into medical debt, which will only enrich the, you know, healthcare insurance corporations. But my God, before we go to break, let's make sure that we really make sure that 0.1% of our population has no recourse to get access to healthcare that they need that might save their life. Yeah, damn.

A (55:47)

It's all. They're literally focusing on the things that actually don't matter at all whatsoever. Even like Trump's in his speech. They've been. I've seen this a lot. The rhetoric there's like transgender for everybody. Where.

B (56:00)

Yeah, right.

A (56:00)

What are they talking about? Like, even if you are trans, you still have to go through a lot of steps to get that gender affirming care. And it's not always covered by health insurance, especially today. So the idea that. And I literally just had someone comment on one of my videos the other day that was like, oh yeah, well if you send your, you could send your son to school and three days later he gets sent home by the teacher, a girl. I'm like, that's not happening. They live in a different reality. I don't know what they're on about.

B (56:31)

This week on my on my sub stack at Tim Whitaker Speaks, I wrote an article and I called it the GOP is, is America's biggest death Cult. They are a death culture. That's what they are. And I have tons of receipts. I give three different examples why. And this is one of them. This is one of them. Like they manufacture these culture war issues that distract us from getting real shit done in this country. We had a mass shooting last week, another one out of hundreds that have already happened. We're not gonna do a damn thing about any kind of gun safety legislation. In fact, I looked it up. Did you know, April, that the Republican Congress this year introduced 25 bills to loosen gun restrictions in Americ? They tried to push in 25 bills. Australia suffered their worst mass shooting in 30 years. They're already agreed upon enacting even stricter gun legislation. That is the difference. And when it comes to gun control in particular, there is only one political party in this country that routinely votes to stop or fight or ignore or dismantle or reject any kind of federal gun safety legislation that also protects the rights of gun owners to own certain firearms.

A (57:46)

I this is those moments. It's so infuriate. It's infuriating.

B (57:52)

100%. 100%.

D (57:57)

Hey everyone, Melinda Hale here, executive Director of the New Evangelicals. Thanks for listening to our podcast. I just wanted to take a minute to personally invite you to be a part of our community. At tne, we're creating space for people of faith who care about justice, compassion, and living out the teachings of Jesus in real, tangible ways. As a nonprofit organization, not only do we offer thought provoking podcasts, but on our new app and online platform, TNE Connect, we offer free educational resources, additional content, and a space to connect with like minded people for meaningful conversations and encouragement. So if what we're doing has been helpful to you, if you've learned something, felt seen or or been challenged to grow, head over to thenewevangelicals.com to join TNE Connect or make a donation. Your support means the world to us. Thanks for being a part of the movement.

G (58:44)

Hi, my name is Leanne. I live in Chapel Hill, North Carolina. I'm 65 years old and both my husband and I grew up in a fairly conservative evangelical church. But about 20 years ago, we began to question some of the teachings in that church. And we embarked on our own process of deconstruction and reconstruction instruction, although it didn't have a name at the time. And we have recently started attending a wonderful church that is fully affirming and fully inclusive of our LGBTQ siblings in Christ. And we absolutely love it. It's the best faith experience of our lives. And I so appreciate Tim and the new Evangelicals team. I so appreciate the online resource. And I have become a donor because I believe so strongly in the really important work they're doing, and I would encourage anyone listening to consider doing the same. Thank you.

A (59:50)

So the last two things that we have to get to is we want to talk about Donald Trump's response to Rob Reiner.

B (59:58)

Okay. And also Erica Kirk, Right?

A (60:01)

Erica Kirk video. Yeah. So do you want to do this first?

B (60:04)

Yeah, let's do Erica Kirk first. Knock this one out. Yeah.

A (60:07)

Okay. So Erica Kirk did a town hall on cbs, and I don't know why we're giving Erica Kirk town halls. She's not a politician. Okay. I'm not gonna. I'm not gonna dissect what's happening here right now, but she did a town hall.

B (60:25)

That did happen.

A (60:26)

Yeah, she did a town hall. For some reason.

B (60:29)

It was weird.

A (60:30)

And she was. We'll just play this clip. She gets asked, asked about Trump's rhetoric and if she would condemn it because it's hateful, because she has. She called for less divisiveness. And she forgave the shooter of Charlie during her speech at the memorial, which you and I both. What's the word? Not.

B (60:51)

We talked about. We commented on.

A (60:52)

We talked about it. And. And we're appreciative of that. Yeah. Sorry, I'm getting tired. Anyway, let's just play this clip and we'll talk about it.

B (60:58)

All right, you got it.

A (61:00)

Erica.

E (61:00)

As you know, the last person that.

B (61:04)

Charlie ever spoke to was a Utah.

F (61:07)

Valley student named Hunter Kozak. He was asking Charlie a question that day when he was shot. And he's here tonight, and he wants to ask you a question.

B (61:17)

Okay.

H (61:18)

Hi there. Erica. I want to tell you how much I appreciate your calls for peace and unity. And I'm likewise horrified by the people in my so called camp who were cheering about Charlie's murder. I believe that they stoke the flames of violence, but even worse is when powerful, influential people on either side of the aisle stoke the flames. When they do it, the flames can become an inferno. And this leads me to Donald Trump, the most powerful and influential person on earth who has more responsibility than Anyone else to put the flames out? Just last month, President Trump called on six Democratic lawmakers to be tried for sedition, which he clarified was punishable by death. He then reposted a simple hang them. I think that you've been making strides to bring peace to our country, and that turning point has been asking Democrats to decry the individuals who cheer for violence. I have and will continue to decry them. But any good faith effort to stop political violence must hold both parties to the same standard and expectations. So in that spirit, will you condemn the violent rhetoric of Donald Trump, the most powerful and influential person on earth?

B (62:33)

Simple question.

E (62:34)

I appreciate your question.

B (62:36)

Simple.

E (62:39)

You know my heart. Why would I ever say, yes, go murder people? This is so much deeper than just one. I understand your sentiment. I do. But this is also so much deeper than just one person. This starts at the home. Okay? This starts with family. This starts with a seed that grows and grows. You can choose to have evil in your heart, or you can choose to have light. What you consume and what you absorb from the outside world will manifest itself. No, I will never agree with political violence. My husband is a victim of it. I'm a victim of it. But what I'm trying to say here is that we can blame everyone else. We have to look in the mirror. When you become a father, when you become a mother, how are you raising your kids? Are you taking responsibility? Or are you giving them a device and saying, go down that rabbit hole? I'm trying to go to Pilates class. You can just sit in the corner and look at your iPad, or look at your phone and go down that rabbit hole and see what you can learn from that instead of being a parent. So my call to action from that is parents step up. Do you want your kid to be a thought leader or an assassin? That's where we're at.

B (64:20)

Do you think our political leaders have a responsibility to turn the temperature down right now?

E (64:25)

Well, I think everyone has a responsibility to do that, and I'm doing my part. I'm not in control of other people.

B (64:34)

Um.

A (64:38)

So you, as an apparent. You're either raising a thought leader or an assassin. Those are the two options.

B (64:47)

Look, I want to be.

A (64:48)

I don't mean to laugh, but look, look. What was that answer?

B (64:51)

You and I are very careful with, you know, dehumanization. Right? This is something that the new evangelicals has been a big proponent of since the beginning, and you and I have talked about that. We don't want to dehumanize people, and we can walk and chew gum at the same time. You and I were very clear when this first happened about how it was unjustifiable, how what happened to Charlie should never have happened. How we both felt for Erica, obviously, as a mother, as a wife. I mean, surely we can extend our empathy to Erica in that sense. Right? That's a true thing. No one should have their partner taken away from them. Especially like how it happened to Charlie. Not even a question. It's not hard to say that. Okay. And also the way that Turning Point and the way that she's presented herself publicly in the aftermath has been incredibly suspicious. They fundraise off of Charlie's death by sending these personal letters from Erica asking people to donate to Turning Point usa. Like it feels icky.

A (65:52)

And she's been promoting a new book.

B (65:54)

A new book. It's just the whole thing is weird. And look, when you. When you put yourself out there in the public light and you say things, you are allowed to receive criticism. That's not dehumanizing, that's not off limits, that's not wrong. Erica is going around on national television saying things, promoting books, and we're allowed to respond to that. So with that all in the background, what she said here is absolute hogwash and makes no sense whatsoever, given how softball that question was. That guy's question. You could tell he put so much fricking thought into it.

A (66:29)

Right?

B (66:29)

He might have even used chatgpt like to say this in a loving and kind tone with getting my point across. And he did. And she completely deflected from Trump.

A (66:39)

Example, Donald Trump called for the hanging of Democrats. Will you condemn that?

B (66:44)

Right. Basic. Basic 101, by the way. People might not know this, but the DNC released a statement when Charlie Kirk was killed condemning it right away. The entire DNC released that statement. Democratic leaders and politicians univocally have condemned Charlie's death. Are there random people on X or on Twitter or wherever you want to say that have said terrible shit about Charlie for sure. But that's not people who are in leadership or who have any kind of political sway when it comes to politics. But Trump, the sitting President of the United States, whose words can kill people, he has that much power, can order or demand the execution of Democrats. And when Erica is asked to condemn that kind of political violence, she can't. And she deflects to the family unit into iPads. Come on, guys.

A (67:36)

It's similar to her response of why Zoran Mamdani won. It's because women want to be in a relationship with the government. I don't understand why people keep giving her a platform. I mean, I guess it gets views. We're watching it, but I don't understand it. Yeah.

B (67:56)

Look, this is one thing I'll mention to people who might not have grown up like April and I did. Just a little thing to keep in mind here. Christian nationalists like Charlie and like Erica are never going to believe in good faith. Both sides. They're never going to do that because ultimately they believe that the Democratic Party or that liberals or Marxists or trans people or insert any target is demonic is trying to destroy the country. And why would you ever try and work together with someone who you think is destroying the country? This is why Charlie Kirk himself said a few years ago at America Fest, I had the clip that there can only be one winner. They are the invaders, meaning the Democrats, and they must be destroyed. That's what he said. This is how that world operates. So that's why Erica can't be good faith here, because her entire worldview, her political ideology and how she views the Christian faith only allows her to attack other people and then. And always defend her tribe that she thinks is being used by God to save America. That's how the logic of this works.

A (68:57)

It's weird.

B (68:58)

Anyway, we had to remember that.

A (69:00)

Yeah. Okay. So that happened. Okay, next story. It's been a long week.

B (69:07)

I know.

A (69:08)

Yeah. So she said that before Donald Trump released. Posted this on Truth Social. So if you are not aware, Rob Reiner and his. And Michelle, his wife, Michelle Reiner, were tragically murdered. Yeah, it's looking like. By their son. Their son was just charged with the murder of his parents, who dealt with drug issues and mental health. So, I mean, this is just. It's a. It's just a tragedy all the way around it. I was. So when I. It's so horrible because I, I actually, I had. I was honored. I always got to be on a zoom meeting with Rob Reiner, because I did. This was two summers ago because I got hired to do social media for a documentary he produced called Gaunid country, which is about Christian nationalism.

B (69:57)

So that's really good.

A (69:58)

I really became of his work. I became very aware of his work fighting Christian nationalism, which is honestly one of my favorite things about Rob Reiner was that not only was he this huge character, he was fun, he made amazing films, but he also cared about justice and standing up for the little guy. And he would go toe to toe and call Trump out directly, which is why Trump obviously doesn't like him. But, yeah, it's weird. Even though I didn't know him well by any means, I had one interaction with him, but it's just, just, it's just someone that you spoke to.

B (70:33)

Yeah.

A (70:34)

Gets murdered. Like it's, the life is just so fragile.

B (70:39)

Yeah.

A (70:39)

Anyway, very sad. So Donald Trump post on truth. Social. Social. And I'll say, just given the gravity of this situation and how tragic it is, I'm not going to read this in the normal way that I would read this where it's kind of mocking it, because I actually think this is just, this post is horrific. So I'm going to read what he said.

B (71:01)

Okay. Word for word.

A (71:03)

So right. Word for word. This is what Donald Trump posted. A very sad thing happened last night in Hollywood. Rob Reiner, a tortured and struggling, but once very talented movie director and comedy star, has passed away together with his wife Michelle, reportedly due to the anger he caused others through his massive, unyielding and incurable affliction with a mind crippling disease known as Trump Derangement syndrome. And he put that in all caps. Sometimes referred to as tds. He was known to have driven people crazy by his raging obsession of President Donald J. Trump. With his obvious paranoia reaching new heights as the Trump administration surpassed all goals and expectations of greatness. And with the golden age of America upon us, perhaps like never before, may Rob and Michelle rest in peace. I, I don't even know where to begin, how he's basically insinuating that the reason he was murdered was because he didn't like Trump.

B (72:06)

It's, it's just, I mean, it's evil. It's, it's, you have to wonder if Trump is possessed by some kind of demonic spirit, so to speak. Right. To use like their own language. You have to wonder like, what is animating a man's mind to say such vicious and cruel things to a fellow human being who was stabbed multiple times allegedly by his own son along with.

A (72:28)

His wife, in a tragedy that has nothing to do with Trump. Like, he made it all about him. I mean, he is, he is a narcissist through and through. He is a vile, evil man. And I feel, I feel absolutely okay in saying that. There's nothing that, I feel any hesitancy in saying that Donald Trump is a vile and evil man, that you can look at a tragedy like what happened to the Reiners and make it about you and center yourself.

B (72:58)

Yeah, it's horrible. Luckily, there was some people, including Republicans, who actually responded to this and like called them out, which is great. Jenna Ellis, She's a major player in the MAGA space. Said a man and his wife were murdered last night. This is not the appropriate response. The right uniformly condemned political and celebratory responses to Charlie Kirk's death. This is a horrible example from Trump and surprising considering the two attempts on his own life and should be condemned by everyone with any decency. Yeah, I mean, many people said this. Thomas Massey said something similar to this. I have it here on the screen. You know, regardless of how you felt about Rob Reiner, this is inappropriate and disrespectful discourse about a man who was just brutally murdered. I guess my elected GOP colleagues, the VP and White House staff will just ignore it because they're afraid I challenge anyone to defend it. I mean, thankfully. Thankfully. Goodness. Now Massey is behind the Epstein files as well. He's trying to get that release at odds with Trump. Yeah, so there are a few. But yeah, I mean, it really is. It's pretty despicable. You know, April, we've been doing this show. Well, we started this show under the New Evangelicals podcast. It's like a weekly recap on Fridays. So we've been doing this show for over a year now and we've covered Trump pretty much weekly because we had to. And I will say that that's probably one of the most despicable things he said yet among a mountain of despicable things. I mean, it's just. It's horrific. It's horrific.

A (74:22)

Yeah. I will just say if you. I would highly recommend watching God and Country, which is the documentary that Rob Reiner produced. Maybe do it in his honor, in his memory. But it also shines light on everything that we talk about on a week to week basis or just go watch something more fun like the Princess Bride.

B (74:42)

I mean, it's a cult classic, you know, so how could you not. Yeah, I don't know. I'm not even sure what to say. You know, it's just.

A (74:48)

Well, I think it's also just really hypocritical. Although there are some. There are some people in MAGA space calling Trump out for that. Thankfully, there are a lot that are quiet.

B (74:57)

Well, I mean, this is the guy who called for execution of Democrats a few weeks ago. Look, every month or so, Trump says something on Truth Social lol at the name of that. That is just absolutely outrageous. And it really is amazing. And look, I'm going to put some blame even on mainstream media here. It's really amazing how we have come to accept that Trump can say deranged Crazy, evil things about people and have almost. No, it won't even make front page news sometimes. But like, Joe Biden looks kind of, you know, out of it. So let's talk about how terrible Joe Biden is, right? Like, like the double standard for what we expect from Democratic presidents versus Trump. It's ridiculous. I mean, this is, this. Do you remember when, when Joe Biden gave a speech and it was at nighttime, the White House was behind him, it was lit up red and he made like a statement that white supremacy or like, or like, you know, Trump sycophant, something to that effect are the biggest threat to America. And right wing media took it, took that picture of Biden with the red behind him and was like, this man's demonic, this man's evil. This man just said he hates half the country. How unpresidential, how despicable. This is the same people that voted for Trump who says this kind of shit all the time and gets very little if any pushback. Do you think, do you think Ali Stuckey will do a whole segment on Trump's dehumanization? No, of course not. And that's what gets me is it goes back to the Erica Kirk thing too. I'm all done trying to pretend that we're dealing with good faith people. Now that will not stop me from always extending empathy when violence happens in right wing spaces. Right. These people, my political enemies, do not dictate my values as a human period. But, but make no mistake, that doesn't mean that somehow I think that it's a both sides issue that we're just dealing with, you know. Well, look, guys, both sides have problems. No, no, this, there is a major disparity in the violent rhetoric that is tolerated by the right towards people that they don't like, including trans folks and immigrants, by the way, who as far as we know, don't even know their political affiliation. They're just people, you know, in minority groups. That's okay. But the second anything is spoken about Charlie quoting his own words, his own racist words, that's a bridge too far.

A (77:25)

People to be fired for just quoting Charlie Kirk.

B (77:28)

Exactly. And they were. People lost their jobs, remember?

A (77:31)

Yeah.

B (77:31)

April, you and I were, were scared because there was a list going online, so I forgot what I think it was called. Like fine, Charlie murderers.com website.

F (77:41)

Yes.

A (77:41)

Where they were blaming anyone who ever said anything bad about Charlie Kirk for his murder.

B (77:46)

They were putting their profile picture, their work location, their general area online. Right. That was like, fine. The gut. Pete Hegseth said we're looking through our military to see people who might have spoken ill about Charlie so we can get rid of them.

A (78:01)

Yeah. And they're equating to. Like, I've seen. I've seen people defend what Trump said as saying, like, well, it's nothing worse than what the left said about Charlie, but they are equating, like, random people on the Internet.

B (78:15)

Exactly.

A (78:15)

That have no political power with the fricking President of the United States.

B (78:21)

If you want to go.

A (78:22)

The majority of, like, Democrats that I saw that had any sort of elective position, like, I only ever saw them condemn the assassination.

B (78:30)

Yeah, I pulled. Which one was it? Was it. Where is this? Yeah, yeah, this is Ilyan Omar. This is, you know, this is the big target for Republicans. This is the crazy Marxist radical who's also Muslim. Oh, oh, the far left in government. Well, here's what she said. September 16, 2025. While I disagreed with Charlie Kirk. Vehemently. Wait, did I say that right?

A (78:52)

Vehemently.

E (78:52)

Dang it.

B (78:53)

Okay.

A (78:54)

Vehemently.

B (78:54)

Vehemently about his rhetoric. My heart breaks for his wife and children. I don't wish the violence on anyone. My faith teaches me the power of peace, empathy, and compassion.

A (79:07)

Yeah.

B (79:08)

That's the quote, unquote, far left section of the Democratic Party. Does that sound violent to you? No.

A (79:16)

And a lot of Republicans wanted to censure her over what she said.

B (79:20)

Yes. Because she said that she's also not going to honor Charlie as some kind of American hero because he espoused racist views. Fact check. True prowling. Blacks are going around targeting white people. Black women don't have the brain power to do their jobs. They stole it from white people. I'm a. I'm. Whenever I see a black pilot, I think, I wonder, boy, I hope he's qualified. And what's the context of that?

A (79:47)

Charlie Kirk said those.

B (79:48)

Yes and yes. Not me, obviously, to be clear. Not me.

A (79:51)

And people go.

B (79:52)

People go. Well, the context. Yeah. Here's the context of the black pilot quote. He's making the argument that DEI initiatives lower pilot standards for black people because I guess they're too incompetent to actually pilot like, how white people do. It's inherently a racist. And also false belief. That's what gets me, is like, yeah, watch the whole segment. He's very clear it's inherently racist.

A (80:17)

Right. The context doesn't make it better.

B (80:20)

Yeah, yeah, exactly. So, anyway, anyway, a little bit of a rant before this Christmas season.

A (80:26)

Yeah. Speaking of Donald Trump, he's coming back for our weird Christian beep Yeah, Super Chat first.

B (80:34)

We have two.

A (80:35)

Oh, okay. Yeah, we can do Super Chat.

B (80:36)

Sorry. Here's one.

A (80:40)

Doke Dolgan again says when the teacher asks you to answer a question in front of the class that you don't know. So you just talk until you can go back to your desk, then respond to Erica Kirk.

B (80:48)

Yeah. And then this one came in too.

A (80:50)

Joseph Contem says, this is not surprising. It makes me sick that people call him a Christian. He makes zero effort to be a better person. That's a starting point. Completely agree 100%.

B (80:59)

Thanks so much for being here. If you're watching live, please make sure to give this video on YouTube a like if you're watching on substack. Thank you so much. Almost 700 of you have tuned in so far. That's amazing. You can give that little heart button thing. It makes us feel good and loved and, you know, supported. So I don't know. We're insecure. Content creators are always insecure. Okay, fact check. It's completely true. And little hearts. Okay.

A (81:20)

Me, I raised mental health. I'm not falling apart at all.

B (81:25)

I'm so sorry for speaking on behalf of you, April. Let's get to our favorite segment. Oh, I keep coughing. Let me try it again. Let's get to our favorite segment of the week.

A (81:39)

Weird Christian.

B (81:44)

Okay, let me tee this bad boy up. It's a good one. It's a good one.

A (81:48)

April, this is a real product.

B (81:50)

You found a doozy.

A (81:52)

It was served to me organically.

B (81:55)

Yeah, same, same. Do you want to serve this too? Do you want to tee us up for this or just.

A (82:00)

So basically this is a product in the TikTok shop. I imagine it's other places too, but it is a narrated birth of Jesus children's book narrated by Donald Trump. And obviously the Donald Trump voice is AI.

B (82:13)

April, let's be truthful. The title of the book says the birth of Jesus as narrated by your favorite president.

A (82:22)

Oh, your favorite president. Yes, yes.

B (82:24)

And then in the. On the picture, for those listening on podcast is a very white Mary, a very white Joseph. He's got a little bit of freaking white baby Jesus. And then Donald Trump to the right or to the left. And how you're looking at it. Just looking with a little cane.

E (82:42)

Yeah.

A (82:43)

Donald Trump.

B (82:43)

Talk about blasphemy. Let's get the emperor, let's get the modern day Caesar the fuck out of the. Out of. Out of the. The Jesus narrative. The birth of Christ. Because it's all about anti empire. I'm just saying, like, sorry, I Dropped the F bomb. But like, what are we doing here? Jesus. Okay, yeah.

A (83:03)

Jesus is in the picture, too. He's right there.

B (83:06)

Sorry. Okay, here we go.

C (83:09)

The birth of Jesus as narrated by your favorite president.

B (83:14)

This book is exactly what the title says. This is the story of the birth of Jesus, narrated by Donald Trump. Every page has one of these buttons, and when you push it, the narration starts. The cool thing about this book is it's written kind of like Trump wrote it himself.

C (83:31)

Carpenter builds tremendous stuff.

B (83:35)

This is obviously a children's book and it makes a great Christmas gift. If you want to get the birth of Jesus, narrated by Donald Trump, while it's on sale for Christmas, I'm gonna put a link at the bottom of the video.

C (83:44)

But then another angel shows up and tells the wise men not to go back to King Herod. That night, something incredible happens. Baby Jesus is born. And he's beautiful. Like a 10 out of 10. Just then, God puts a mask. Massive star in the sky. Sheep with a top notch sheepdog. A very smart move. They find a little savior. In a manger. No, nestled in straw. So they take a different route home. That meant Jesus was safe. And Jesus, he grows up to be revealed as the savior of the world, spreading joy, love, and truth wherever he went. What an amazing guy. Told you it was the best story ever.

A (84:28)

Gross.

B (84:29)

Am I allowed? Can I just share?

A (84:31)

Baby Jesus was beautiful. 10 out of 10.

B (84:34)

April, with your permission, may I just give a small, tiny monologue before we start landing this plane? Because I need.

A (84:42)

It's granted.

B (84:44)

Thank you. Look, I am very much Christian. The birth story of Christ is a sacred thing. And it's a complicated thing in the Gospel accounts, but it's beautiful. And what makes me so angry is watching people who insist that folks like me and you are not true Christians. Because we're not fundamentalist Christian zealots who think that trans people should be better off dead and that we need more guns in our schools. Somehow we're the problem when these people literally bastardize the heart of the Christian message. And let me explain to you all out there what that heartbeat is, because we really miss this due to the Christian fundamentalist maniacs out there who really disrespect the story. The whole point, the whole point of the Christian message, and this is widely agreed upon, is that the question is how, if God was among us in flesh, what would God look like? For the Christian, the answer is Jesus. Jesus is God in the flesh. How does Jesus come to earth through an unwed mother, born into poverty, facing Immediate persecution by Herod. Told to flee to a neighboring nation state, Egypt, and lives as a person under the boot of empire and lives pretty much homeless his entire life. That's how God, in the Christian narrative, the Almighty spoke the world into existence. God chooses to be embodied. Not as Caesar, not as the empire, not as someone born of privilege, not as someone born into politics, no money. It's the opposite. God is born among us on the underside of society. God is born under the occupation of the world's biggest empire, Rome. God is born with a target on his back by the rich and the powerful for threatening their privilege. That is the freaking heartbeat of the Christmas story. And to put Donald Trump's ridiculous voice and everything that he stands for to narrate that story is literally blasphemy. It is so disrespectful to Christians everywhere, especially the Christians who find solidarity with Christ as living under the boot of empire. The immigrant who can't even get communion because this administration refuses to allow priests to administer to them in detention centers. That's who Christ is. That's who Christ would be. If Christ was born today, he'd be born in modern day Palestine under the rubble of the bombs that we're funding, as a brown skinned Jewish person, AKA the very type of person that this administration is targeting. So it is just really aggravating to me as a Christian, as a follower of the way of the crucified and risen Jesus, to watch these people, first off, monetize that story and do it in a way with someone who is literally embodying every Antichrist position you can imagine, who spits in the face of the red letters. It just gets me so angry to see this. So, yes, it's hilarious in a way. It's also appalling, but deep down, for me, it's incredibly offensive that these Christian sycophants have the nerve to declare you and I as heretics. But this is somehow a good, funny, cute thing. Miss me? Miss me with that bullshit.

A (88:14)

I'm sorry. Someone mentioned in the comments about it. It made me think about it. I'm surprised he didn't try to blame King Herod wanting to kill baby Jesus on Joe Biden. Somehow Joe Biden's fault. No, we know. We know that Donald Trump didn't actually narrate that because he didn't blame anything on Biden. Yeah, yeah, because it was obviously AI. Donald Trump would never take the time to actually narrate a children's book. Well, maybe for the right amount of money.

B (88:41)

I appreciate it. I Should get it out. I said thanks for. For letting me rant.

A (88:44)

I. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I. And I agree. It's. I just feel like we repeat ourselves, you know, Like, I'm like, constantly, so I could just. I could be pissed off all the time.

B (88:55)

Yeah.

A (88:56)

There's plenty to be mad about. And I am, to be fair, I do get mad. I. I get frustrated. And that is there. But it's also like. Like, I just have to pick and choose our times. But I feel like we balance each other out. Like, there's times that there's, like, moments that really piss you off and you go on a really epic rant, and then there's other moments that really piss me off and then I go on a rant and then.

B (89:15)

And then you curse that I cheer you on.

A (89:17)

Like, yes, we're not ranting at the same time, which is great. It brings balance.

B (89:24)

Yeah. No, I love it. That's why. I mean, besides just our. Our co hosting chemistry, we do balance each other out really well. Because you're right. Some things I'm like, wow, yo, you are triggered by it. Go for it, get it out. Then there are times where I'm like, all right, it's my turn. I'm just so freaking pissed, you know, So.

A (89:40)

I know well enough. Let's forget, like, let's not forget Donald Trump. That's not an official Donald Trump product, but Donald Trump has made his own bibles to sell and made money off of that.

F (89:51)

Yeah.

A (89:51)

100%.

D (89:52)

Yeah.

B (89:52)

So, wow. Well, friends, don't forget next week it's Christmas. So we will not be live week this Thursday. We will be live on Tuesday, though. And look, I mean, I think that we need to have some fun as well. So we'll have a fun show, I'm sure, a little. A little more lighthearted, maybe get some more questions from the audience. It's always good to hear from people directly in real time, but. Yeah, so we'll be back here on Tuesday at 12 o' clock Eastern with the live show. We'll be off for Thursday and then, you know, holiday schedule. I know it's weird for everyone out there, including ourselves, so we'll get back into the swing of things soon, but. Yeah, I'm with you, April.

A (90:24)

All right, well, we will see y' all Tuesday live at 12:00 Eastern.

B (90:30)

Yeah.

A (90:30)

And we'll wish you all a happy holiday. Merry Christmas. Then we'll save it.

B (90:34)

Sounds good. Well, I'm Tim Whitaker.

A (90:35)

And I'm April Ahjoy.

B (90:37)

Goodbye.