The Tim & April Show – Episode 73

“MAGA Civil War Breaks Out at Turning Point’s AmericaFest”
December 24, 2025

Episode Overview

In this packed episode, Tim Whitaker and April Ajoy of The New Evangelicals recap and analyze the biggest stories, infighting, and rhetoric from Turning Point USA’s AmericaFest, the annual mega-gathering for right-wing and Christian nationalist influencers. The episode’s main theme is the erupting “MAGA civil war” on display at AmericaFest 2025, especially as prominent figures clash in public over antisemitism, platforming far-right voices, and the boundaries (or lack thereof) for Christian nationalism in politics and culture. Tim and April also break down the disconnects and dangerous contradictions of the movement, notably in the Christian nationalist rhetoric on display throughout the event.

Key Topics & Insights

1. Context: What is AmericaFest & Why Does It Matter?

(03:07 – 10:35)

• Tim’s Insider Perspective: Tim, having attended the last three AmericaFests in person, breaks down Turning Point USA’s origins, rightward shift post-2020, and the various arms of the organization—including the highly influential “Turning Point Faith.”

• Significance: AmericaFest is billed as the largest Christian nationalist event in the US (possibly the world), with tens of thousands attending and vast underreporting by mainstream and progressive media.

• Notable Quote:
  “America Fest is the biggest Christian nationalist gathering in America, maybe in the world…and it goes very underreported by mainstream and progressive outlets.”
  – Tim, (05:21)

• Turning Point’s Structure:

  • 001 Main “USA” arm – foundational org started by Charlie Kirk
  • 501c4 "Action" arm – political organizing, ballot work
  • Turning Point Academy – homeschool/private school curriculum
  • Turning Point Faith – mobilizes churches/ministers for politics

• Cultural Analysis: Tim and April emphasize the event as a networking hub for right-wing influencers and as an indicator of where MAGA and Christian nationalist rhetoric is heading in the coming election cycles.

2. The “MAGA Civil War” on Stage

(10:35 – 54:26)

A. Background

• Growing infighting among MAGA personalities, specifically after Tucker Carlson hosted neo-Nazi Nick Fuentes and clashed with Ben Shapiro (who is Jewish) and Candace Owens over antisemitism.

B. Ben Shapiro’s Opening Shots

(12:17)

• Strong rebuke of Tucker Carlson and Candace Owens for antisemitic rhetoric and for platforming Nick Fuentes. Shapiro warns against “platforming Nazis” and exercises rare self-reflection about the circle he helped create.
• Quote:
  “If you host a Hitler-apologist, Nazi-loving, anti-American piece of refuse like Nick Fuentes… you ought to own it.”
  – Ben Shapiro, (14:54)

C. Tucker Carlson’s Retort

(19:18)

• Tucker frames “deplatforming” as leftist “Red Guard” tactics and defends the right to debate even Nazis, playing the free speech martyr.

• Quote:
  “The whole, like, Red Guard, Cultural Revolution thing… At some point when Republicans take power again, I really thought… that the impulse to deplatform people… would go away.”
  – Tucker Carlson, (20:05)

• April calls out his hypocrisy:
  “They’ll cancel any company that features a gay couple. They’ll cancel anyone that doesn’t immediately suck up to Donald Trump. But you dare cancel us for flirting with Nazis? How dare!” (23:01)

D. Tucker’s Theological Pivot

(26:33)

• In a surprising turn, Tucker gives a sermon-like defense of nonviolence, condemns killing innocents in Gaza—gaining cautious approval from Tim & April, while warning listeners not to see this as a true progressive awakening but another manifestation of his anti-establishment, anti-Semitic alliance building.
• Quote:
  “God is not on any country’s side. Certain countries can decide to be on God’s side… And you are seeing now a very intense effort to convince you otherwise.”
  – Tucker Carlson, (27:30, 28:53)

E. Benny Johnson & Benny’s Target

(34:47)

• Benny tries to blame internal division on “the left” and stokes “they’re out killing us” rhetoric, while asserting unity under Charlie Kirk’s legacy.
• Tim and April debunk Johnson’s portrayal of left-wing violence as the greater existential threat.

F. Russell Brand & “Blood of Christ”

(38:49)

• Despite facing rape charges, Brand is embraced on stage as a symbol of Christian unity—including those with repugnant views, so long as they’re on the political right.
• Quote:
  “…no one’s better than anyone else. We’re all on our knees under the blood of Christ.”
  – Russell Brand, (39:29)

G. Vivek Ramaswamy’s Teachable Moment

(41:56)

• Vivek tries to draw the line at embracing open Nazi rhetoric in the movement but finds lukewarm applause; Tim and April note the contradiction and ongoing racism Vivek himself faces from the base he’s addressing.

H. JD Vance Appeals for Unity, Reinforces Contradictions

(47:17, 52:46)

• Calls for inclusion under “America First,” but pivots to demonizing Democrats as obsessed with “transing their kids”—demonstrating the centrality of anti-trans rhetoric.

I. Summary of Civil War Segment

• The episode spotlights the lack of clear boundaries in the movement: even open Nazi-apologists are given airtime, debate, and sometimes applause, while moderate Republicans (and people of color/non-Christians like Ben Shapiro and Vivek) are increasingly sidelined.

J. Closing Observations on Civil War

• Tim and April agree that the civil war exposes the MAGA/Christian nationalist movement as deeply unstable, heavily hypocritical, yet tightly knit by its animosity toward “the left.”

3. Christian Nationalism Center Stage

(54:54 – 79:05)

A. Turning Point Faith’s Role

(57:44)

• Millicent Cedra’s purity culture rhetoric is critiqued as anachronistic and hypocritical (given Trump’s lifestyle and the platforming of accused abusers).
• Quote:
  “If he loves you, he’ll wait for you… Don’t be giving out men wife privileges if he’s not willing to marry and commit.”
  – Millicent Cedra, (58:14)

B. Lucas Miles’ Prayer

(61:27)

• Lucas, Turning Point Faith Director, delivers a generic Christian call for unity at an event rife with divisiveness, illustrating the contradictory nature of Christian nationalism.

C. Doug Wilson’s Ongoing Influence

(65:50)

• Wilson, a Christian pastor with a history of defending slavery and advocating for revoking women’s suffrage, is given a main stage—a reminder of how extreme views are normalized.
• Quote (from his book):
  “Slavery…was a relationship based upon mutual affection and confidence…we cannot overlook the benefits of slavery for both blacks and whites…”
  – Doug Wilson, as cited by Tim (66:56)

D. Ali Stuckey & Theological Foundation for Christian Nationalism

(68:55, 73:26)

• Ali advocates a foundation rooted in “a creator” for all policy, equating conservative theology with the only legitimate politics.

• Connects “loving neighbor” through political action—but defines “neighbor” mainly as “the unborn” and “the confused child about their gender,” avoiding mention of the incarcerated, poor, immigrants, etc.

• Quote:
  “Christians don’t have an option…not to be political. Because our most vulnerable neighbors are affected by politics.”
  – Ali Stuckey, (74:01)

• April’s powerful counterpoint:
  “The unborn are a convenient group of people to advocate for…They allow you to feel good about yourself without any work at creating or maintaining relationships…” – Quoting Methodist pastor David Barnhart (75:37)

E. Overt Christian Nationalism from JD Vance & Others

(83:13)

• Vance: “The only thing that has truly served as an anchor of the United States of America is that we have been, and by the grace of God, we always will be, a Christian nation.”

• Notably, celebratory crowd reactions to these open invocations of Christian supremacy.

4. Extreme Rhetoric & the Martyrdom of Charlie Kirk

(84:46 – 90:28)

• Steve Bannon calls Kirk a “Christian martyr, a Christian saint,” reinforcing persecution/martyr narratives.
• Ken Paxton (Texas AG) draws a direct comparison of Kirk to Jesus (“There was somebody else…who accomplished a lot in a short time. Just like Charlie. His name was Jesus. He died at 33.” – 88:02)
• Tim & April sharply critique the consequences:
  “They're going to conflate their faith with hatred…and that needs to be called out every single moment… Jesus Christ…is the antithesis of the rhetoric that wear those red hats.” – April (89:04)

5. Weird & Surreal Moments at AmericaFest

(90:32 – 101:04)

• Megyn Kelly says she “prayed to Charlie and to God,” a moment notably at odds with evangelical orthodoxy and met with bemusement by the hosts. (91:45)
• Erica Kirk’s WWE-style widow walkout and the on-site replica of the murder tent are called out as exploitative spectacle. Tim and April share empathy, but note the bizarre commercialization and emotional manipulation inherent in the movement’s martyr complex.
• Nicki Minaj’s appearance: mistakenly refers to JD Vance as the “assassin” vice president and is warmly embraced by the crowd despite the right’s prior public attacks on her—and her close personal ties to convicted sex offenders.

Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• Ben Shapiro calls for accountability (14:54):
  “If you host a Hitler-apologist, Nazi-loving, anti-American piece of refuse like Nick Fuentes… you ought to own it.”

• Tucker Carlson defends 'debate' with Nazis (20:05):
  “To hear calls for, like, deplatforming and denouncing people at a Charlie Kirk event. I'm like, what? This is hilarious.”

• Russell Brand soft-pedals evil for unity (39:29):
  “They're Christians like you and like me. And were they not, they're broken human beings like you, like me... We're all on our knees, shoulder, shoulder under the blood of Christ.”

• Ali Stuckey redefines 'loving neighbor’ through politics (73:51):
  “One way that Christians can love our neighbor as we await the perfect and sure victory of Jesus Christ is through politics.”

• Doug Wilson’s defense of slavery (as cited) (66:56):
  “Slavery...was a relationship based upon mutual affection...we cannot overlook the benefits of slavery for both blacks and whites...”

• Steve Bannon: Charlie Kirk as Christian Saint (85:10):
  “Charlie Kirk is a Christian martyr, and Charlie Kirk is a Christian saint.”

• Ken Paxton compares Charlie Kirk to Jesus (87:59):
  “There was somebody else that accomplished a lot in a short time, just like Charlie. His name was Jesus. He died at 33.”

Hosts’ Commentary: Threaded Themes & Takeaways

• Hypocrisy & Contradiction: The same movement excoriating “cancel culture” bans dissenters, practices cancel culture, and defines “Christian” mainly by political allegiance, not theology or lifestyle.

• Persecution Complex & Martyrdom: Deliberate elevation of Charlie Kirk as Christ-like martyr figure, cementing a narrative of Christian persecution central to white evangelical mobilization.

• Redefinition of ‘Neighbor’: Repeatedly, the phrase “love your neighbor” is weaponized—only certain lives/identities are included, with “the unborn” and “confused” (trans) children overtly prioritized over living poor, immigrants, etc.

• Christian Nationalism’s Quiet Part Out Loud: Open elevation of America as a “Christian nation” and the movement’s alignment with figures like Doug Wilson (defender of slavery, misogyny) exposes the project as fundamentally exclusionary and supremacist.

• Weaponized Rhetoric: Claims that “the left” wants to “kill us,” that Democrats are “transing” kids—dangerous, dehumanizing language that primes for ongoing violence and scapegoating.

Final Reflections

• For Listeners New to the Movement: The rhetoric, theology, and narrative architecture of AmericaFest and Turning Point USA reveal a rapidly radicalizing right-wing ecosystem, one that masks deeper divisions and extremism beneath appeals to unity, Christianity, and love of country.

• Hosts’ Sign-Off:
  “We are committed to not normalizing what should not be normalized… we’re committed to exposing the danger and harm of this administration and what they’re doing to our neighbors… You’re not alone.” — Tim & April (103:07)

Segment Timestamps At-a-Glance

• [03:07] — Overview: AmericaFest & Turning Point USA
• [10:35] — Background: The MAGA Civil War (Fuentes, Tucker, Candace, Shapiro)
• [12:17] — Ben Shapiro Strikes Back
• [19:18] — Tucker Carlson’s Speech
• [26:33] — Tucker’s “Christian” Pivot
• [34:47] — Benny Johnson’s Propaganda
• [38:49] — Russell Brand’s Unity Rhetoric
• [41:56] — Vivek’s “No Nazis” Plea
• [47:17] — JD Vance’s Unity Speech & Anti-Trans Rhetoric
• [54:54] — Christian Nationalism in Focus (Ali Stuckey, Doug Wilson, Lucas Miles)
• [68:55] — Ali Stuckey’s Theological Politics
• [83:13] — JD Vance: America as a Christian Nation
• [84:46] — Bannon & Ken Paxton: Kirk as Martyr & Jesus
• [90:32] — Weird/Spectacle Segments (Megan Kelly, Erica Kirk, Minaj)
• [103:07] — Closing Thoughts

This summary captures the dynamic, often contradictory debates within the MAGA and Christian nationalist movement as exposed at AmericaFest, with sharp and empathetic commentary from Tim and April. The episode serves as a window on movement-building, the right’s evolving rhetoric, and the dangerous consequences of its toxic synthesis of religion and politics.