← The Tim & April Show
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Get started today@stitch fix.com. The Tim and April show, where we unravel faith, politics and culture.
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Hi. Hello, friends. Welcome into the Tim and April Show. I am Tim Whitaker.
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A
And I'm April Ajoy.
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C
We have a packed show for you today because America Fest happened. Yeah, we're gonna get into all of that. Welcome in. Welcome in. If you're watching on YouTube live with us, make sure to give this video a like so it gets spread to more people. If you're on substack, give that heart button thing a smash. Also, this is our, maybe our third month now on the Substack World with Lincoln Square Media. So very cool. Been a really great, great experience for us getting to know a different kind of audience. So thanks so much for tuning in, Friends.
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A
Woo.
- [01:37]
C
Okay, April, wow. Let's get through this banter quick because we got a big. We got a big show.
- [01:43]
A
So I just want to mention because. So we're going to talk about all things Turning Point America Fest because there's so much that it really needs to take up the whole time and we're not even going to get to nearly everything by any shot. But I do just want to reference before we get in that the DOJ released a new batch of Epstein files. Either last night or this morning, I woke up to a bunch of new pictures and images that are very, very, very, very damning. So I just wanted to acknowledge that we know that that happened, but we're not talking about that today. And then also. No, go ahead. What were you.
- [02:19]
C
I was going to say, I think it's important to keep that in mind as we talk about America Fest because there's a lot of talk about sex stuff at America Fest against the left and it. Just keep that in mind.
- [02:29]
A
Yeah, it is very damning to Donald Trump. Like there's no, there's no question about that. And then Also another thing. CBS 60 Minutes cut a segment about, see Caught, like very shortly before it aired, but it still aired in Canada. Canada still played it. And it is also very damning of the Trump administration. Trump administration and how dehumanizing they have treated immigrants when they sent them to El Salvador. So you should. If you don't know about that story, you should definitely look into that. But again, we're not going to be able to get into that because Turning Point America Fest happened.
- [03:07]
C
It did, it did. So, friends, by the way, if you're just joining, the Tim and April show is produced by the New Evangelicals, a nonprofit organization that started that helps people expose and reject Christian nationalism and find a better path forward in faith. So if you want to support this show, please consider following the New Evangelicals. We have a private community space and also as a nonprofit, it's the end of the year, which means fundraising is very important. So if you want to support the show, go to thenewevangelicals.com support, consider becoming a donor so we can keep this show going strong in 2026. Okay. America Fest. So, man, I am. This is one of the rare times where I can say, you know, without exaggeration, that I'm at in very unique position here because I've been to America Fest in person for the past three years in a row. My first time was in 2021. I've been there every year since. This was the first year I did not go because of what happened to Charlie. I decided against it. But honestly, I regret my decision because a lot of people were there that I usually interact with and that really helps me get my finger on the pulse for how the. The MAGA movement is going to be acting in the following year. So I want to give people an overview first of Turning Point and America Fest because it's really important to get the lay of the land. And it's also important to recognize that in my opinion, America Fest is the biggest Christian nationalist gathering in America, maybe in the world. And it happens every single year. And frankly, it goes very underreported by, by mainstream and progressive news outlets. And I'm glad to see it this year get more traction. It actually made the front page of CNN this year, which is good. But in my opinion, it's really underestimated. And oftentimes what happens is clips from the main stage get picked up and kind of go viral and people think that's all it is. It is so much more than that. So let me explain to you first what Turning Point USA is. And, and they're different factions of the org and then what America Fest is. So we all know probably, or at least most of us know, that Turning Point USA was started by Charlie Kirk. Now, he did have serious funding behind It a couple millionaires invested early on, but he really was the face of the organization. Turning Point had a major shift in 2020. In fact, on the New Evangelicals podcast, I interviewed a former employee of Turning Point. You can find that on our podcast, the New Evangelicals. And, and she talked about how there was a shift right before she left from 2020 on. That was when Charlie went more from, from like a libertarian approach to more of that MAGA right wing approach because of COVID and also because of a guy named Rob McCoy. Rob McCoy is Charlie Kirk's pastor who kind of convinced him to really start putting his faith into action, so to speak, by using Turning Point to advocate for these Christian nationalist ideals. Okay, that's kind of the, the, the basic background here. Turning Point has several wings of the organization. Turning Point USA is the main mothership. Then you have Turning Point action. That's their 501c4. That's their political arm. And they're very involved in local state politics. In fact, I go to one of their sessions every single year at America Fest. It's shockingly impressive with the work that they're doing. And I should also note that if you want a full deep dive, I did an hour long recap of my time at America Fest last year. I on the New Evangelicals Podcast YouTube channel. It's with all the receipts so you can go there to check out the deep dive. But you have Turning Point Action. You have Turning Point Academy. That's their like private school arm which works with different homeschool curriculums like Doug Wilson's curriculum Canon Press. It also works with, with private schools like Dream Center Academy, which is a mega church in Arizona. And then you have Turning Point Faith. And this is the section that in my opinion always goes way under the radar because in April this is no shade to our progressive friends in this world that we interact with who are more secular. I totally understand why they don't cover this stuff. But routinely the faith element of MAGA and Christian nationalism goes under reported because people just don't have the eyes to see what's actually going on. Turning Point Faith was started three or four years ago. A funder wanted a faith arm and paid for the entire thing to get started. I met their former director over dinner. He was a nice guy, used to work for Hillsong back in the day. They have a new director now named Lucas Miles. Lucas Miles wrote a book called I have It Here Somewhere. The Pagan Cult or something like that. It's about woke everything and yada yada yada. But the thing about Turning Point Faith is that they are very focused on uniting the church for their political causes. And this is a very important piece of the puzzle because what you don't see from the clips online about America Fest is all of the right wing Christian influencers and apologists and pastors and movers in that world who descend in Phoenix, Arizona during America Fest to network, do podcasts, meet new people, et cetera. One other piece of the pie that you need to know about. And then we'll start getting into the clips here, in particular with the, with the faith section. In the evangelical world that April and I come out of, there actually is a lot of infighting over different beliefs about the Bible, God, Christianity, et cetera. And there's usually some pretty hard lines between these different groups. Like there's the, the Prosperity Gospel group that's like your Paula Whites, right, who believe in kind of like naming and claiming it. Then you have your more like reformed dudes who are like, that's heresy. You know, the. We need to stand on the word of God.
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A
We.
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C
Well, the thing about America Fest and Turning Point Faith is that they are bringing people from those worlds together to actually share the stage together. And that's a really big deal. So Turning Point is very active in working to build political coalitions with people and influencers in that space who normally would never work together. And again, that really goes under reported at America Fest. So regarding America Fest, this is like Turning Point USA Super Bowl. It attracts anywhere from 10 to 20,000 people. This year they claimed 30,000 people. There are hundreds of sponsors, there are hundreds of media outlets that you've never heard of that live in the right wing echo chamber. There's podcasters. I mean, the place is wild. Usually when I'm there, I walk about 12 miles a day on the floor, just kind of soaking it in because there's so much to cover. But this is a huge event and their speaker lineup, as always, is massive. If you go to their website and see there's probably close to 70, maybe 50 to 70 speakers that are on the main stage all day. But then they also have breakout groups that happen in the morning and in the afternoon that never get aired publicly. And that's where some more of like the honesty comes out about, you know, taking back culture, how, how to win at the ballot box, how, how the organization is moving young voters more to the right. So this is, this is a humongous, humongous event for Turning Point that attracts all kinds of right wing movers and Shakers, including Drapers. All right, those are the Fuentes types. Now, Nick Fuentes is banned, to be clear, but this event, it brings those people in as well. I've met a few behind the scenes at Turning Point when I was there. So that's a. That's a quick rundown of what we're talking about and who, you know, Turning Point is and what America Fest is.
- [10:36]
A
Yeah. And I. If you've been watching our show for a while, maybe a month ago, we covered this kind of civil war that was starting within MAGA between. Because Tucker Carlson had Nick Fuentes on and then Megyn Kelly had Tucker Carlson on. And, And. And Nick Fuentes, to be clear, has praised Hitler. He's. He's a neo Nazi. He's. He's white nationalist. Very problematic. And so that civil war that has started a month or so ago is still happening, and it played out on stage at Turning Point.
- [11:14]
C
Yes, yes. So opening night, it's Thursday night, I think is when everything kind of starts. Ben Shapiro takes the stage. And now, don't forget Ben Shapiro. Look, friends, I'm gonna be honest with you, okay? I'm. I'm not. I'm not gonna say I'm the most. I don't track the far. Far right as much as I should be. Especially for next year, I'll be doing more of that. But I will tell you this. Ben Shapiro, in my opinion, is on the way out of the MAGA and conservative movement. If you look at all of his videos, he continually gets ratioed in the comments about being Jewish and all that kind of stuff. So I. I think Ben is. Is really, in my opinion, in the belly of the beast at events like this, because the young generation that is in the MAGA movement has been sucked into the Nick Fuentes vortex, in my opinion, and really thinks that Jewish people are to blame for a lot of the world's problems. So that's my opinion here. But, yes, Ben Shapiro opened up the night, and we have a few clips, actually, I'm gonna tell you now, we have a lot of clips to play, so we'll try and get through these. Yeah, but here's. Here's. Here's Ben taking the first kind of shot, you know, in the MAGA Civil war. Here we go.
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But even if it were true that other public figures were our best friends, our very best friends, that does not relieve us of our duty to speak out of principle and not to cover up evil or shy away from addressing it out of friendship. So, no, Tucker Carlson, it is not an Excuse to go silent on Candace's targeting of TP usa.
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C
There are some jeers in there too. It's not all applause or to mirror.
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B
Her bullshit lines of questioning. Because you love Candace personally. The same holds true of Megyn Kelly, a person I consider a friend. Characterizing Candace as a young mother and thus shying away from condemning her actions or filming me about them. That is a non starter. Meghan Markle is a young mother. Ilhan Omar is a young mother. That doesn't matter. And when Meghan said this week, quote, my goal and my job here is to try to understand. Yes. Where Candace is coming from on this and says she sees no purpose in inserting herself quote into this. On one side that is a moral and logical absurdity. There is only one moral side here. Erica Kirk's side.
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C
So. So for those who haven't been following the the in the drama, Candace Owens has been making a lot of waves and attention in this, presumably, presumably money over spreading wild conspiracy the about Charlie's death and insinuating that maybe Erica Kirk knew about it or that someone at Turning Point USA knew about it. It's become this whole rift in this movement along with the fact, of course, that Tucker Carlson brought on Nick Fuentes to speak on his podcast. So that's kind of the context for some of these clips that we're going to be playing. It's important to kind of get the lay of the land here. I have one more from Ben that I think is worth playing when he kind of calls out Tucker directly. I think it's this one here. Let me pull that. I also want to mention some of these clips do have some language in them. Okay, so if you have kids in the car, might want to skip through these because in this clip in particular, Ben quotes some of the things that Nick Fuentes has said and some of them are not pretty and quite frankly, very vulgar. So keep that in mind. So now here's Ben going after Tucker.
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Third, and relatedly, we have a duty to take responsibility for what we say and do. If we hire awful people, we're responsible for that. I have some experience there, as you might suspect.
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A
Talking about Candace.
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C
Yep.
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That means that if we offer a guest for your viewing, we owe it to you to ask the kinds of questions that actually get at the truth. If we agree with the guest, that's fine, but we should own it. So for example, if you host a Hitler apologist, Nazi loving, anti American piece of refuse like Nick Fuentes.
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C
Jeers. Hear the jeers. Lot of jeers. In that.
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B
You know, the Nick Fuentes who said that the Vice President of the United States is a, quote, fat, gay race traitor married to a jeet. The person who said that Charlie Kirk was a, quote, retarded idiot. The person who said, and pardon my language here, it's his quote, that he, quote, took Turning Point USA and fucked it. And that's why it's filled with gripers. If you have that person on your show and you proceed to glaze him, you ought to own it.
- [15:49]
C
Ben went pretty scorched earth on this one.
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B
I thought there is a reason that Charlie Kirk despised Nick Fuentes and indeed even chided Dinesh d' Souza for debating him. He knew that Nick Fuentes is an evil troll and that building him up is an act of moral imbecility. And that is precisely what Tucker Carlson did. He built Nick Fuentes up, and he ought to take responsibility for that, just as he ought to take responsibility for glazing pornographer and alleged sex trafficker Andrew Tate or for mainstreaming fake historian and pseudo Nazi apologist Daryl Cooper as America's best and most honest popular historian. Hosts are indeed responsible for the guests they choose and the questions they ask those guests.
- [16:35]
C
I. I think Ben is, Is in this case, very right about how he called out Tucker. I mean, I find myself listening to Bennett being like, on this part, Ben, of what you're talking about. I agree. I mean, Tucker Carlson, we called this out when it first happened, brought Andrew Tate on his platform and gave the man softball questions, challenged none of his responses. And he did the same thing with Nick Fuentes. I mean, Nick Fuentes said, I'm an admirer of Stalin. And Tucker goes, we'll come back to that. Newsflash. He did not come back to that. Right. And gave the guy softballs, just softball questions, and coddled him. So it's. It's so weird, April, because what am I doing finding myself agreeing. I. Maybe we should say that. That Ben Shapiro agrees with us that Tucker is not a good faith actor, you know?
- [17:25]
A
Yeah. Well, it's going to be interesting because in this back and forth, there are things that I agree with them about, but for very different reasons.
- [17:37]
C
Exactly.
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A
But yes, I agree that you should not have Nazis on your show. That that love, like, you shouldn't even give them a platform. You shouldn't entertain it or humor it at all because it gives it validity. But also, Ben Shapiro helped create this very dogmatic, you know, exclusive movement.
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C
Totally.
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A
Which is why, like, it's. It's frustrating because obviously Ben Shapiro is Jewish, and he supports some things that are more Christian nationalist, which they're not going to welcome Jewish people at the end of the day.
- [18:15]
C
Right, exactly. But, and also, I mean, Ben has been staunchly in favor of what Israel's been doing to the people of Palestine in Gaza. Right. Like, I mean, and this is. This is the thing, friends, that's so important. Right. We can walk and chew gum at the same time. As we've said often, we have condemned what Israel has been doing to the Palestinian people. I mean, it's a genocide. There's no way around that. And also, we can say that, no, Jews don't control the world, and that people who speak like that should be. That should be a red flag when you hear someone talk about, well, they controlled the banks, you're heading down territory that America and the world has been down before, that does not end well. Right, so. So Ben goes on. On this monologue, calls out Tucker directly, and Tucker responds. And here's a clip of how Tucker responded. Yeah, yeah. And again, friends, you know, we're pulling small clips from their speeches. We would be here literally for 24 hours if we played them in their entirety. But just this is to kind of give you the vibe of how in the tone that America Fest started off on.
- [19:18]
B
Yeah, I just got here, and I feel like I missed the first part of the program. Hope I didn't miss anything mean.
- [19:26]
C
But.
- [19:26]
B
I just want to say I don't think I did. No, I'm just kidding. I watched it. I laughed. I laughed. That kind of bitter, sardonic laugh that emerges from you and like, upside down world arrives when your dog starts doing your taxes and you're like, wait, it's not supposed to work this way. To hear calls for, like, de. Platforming and denouncing people at a Charlie Kirk event. I'm like, what? This is hilarious. Yeah, this is hilarious. Actually, one of the clips, I was listening to myself thinking, as I often do when I hear myself speak, which is never because I never watch myself, but at these events, they always play.
- [20:06]
C
Like, the role of you.
- [20:08]
B
And I'm like, that guy is pompous. Sorry about that. We don't see ourselves clearly. But the prediction that, you know, at some point when Republicans took power again, which I did everything I could, you know, to help, and really felt that was important. I still think, you know, I was right. But I really thought that the impulse to deplatform people, or even to use the word platform as a verb, which it's not. It's a noun don't steal my nouns de platform and denounce. Why haven't you denounced somebody else? The whole, like, Red Guard, cultural revolution thing that we so hated and feared on the left that we did everything we could to usher in a new time where you could have an actual debate. I mean, this kind of was the whole point of Charlie Kirk's public life. And I think that. I think that he died for it. I really believe that, and I know a lot about it, because the last several months of Charlie's life were devoted in part to. To arguing about this event. In fact, this speech. In fact, my speech here, which he asked me to do earlier this year, this summer, and was immediately put under just immense pressure from people who give money to Turning Point, I would assume good people, but who wanted him to take me off the roster. And this has all become public, and I. The whole thing is so sad that I never talk about it, except to say Charlie stood firm in his often stated and deeply held belief that people should be able to debate and that if you have something valid to say, if you're telling the truth, you ought to be able to explain it calmly and in detail to people who don't agree with you. And that you shouldn't immediately resort to shut up, racist. You shouldn't immediately go to motive. By the way, shut up, racist is the number one reason I voted for Donald Trump, and because they're just sick of it. I mean, first of all, if I was a racist, if I was a bigot, I would just say so, okay? It's America. You're allowed to be whatever kind of person you want. I'm not. I'm sincerely opposed. Have always been and will always be. But the style of debate where you prevent the other side from talking or being heard because you immediately go to motive. Well, I wonder why you're asking that question. I wonder why. Why are you asking that question? I detect in the question a certain evil in your soul. And everyone listening should know that listening to you implicates them.
- [22:43]
C
Okay, he goes on and on about this.
- [22:46]
A
I have thoughts.
- [22:47]
C
Well, please share it really quick. Of course.
- [22:50]
B
I.
- [22:53]
A
I find it so hypocritical that he's talking about we shouldn't cancel anybody when it comes to freaking Nazis.
- [23:01]
C
Yep, that's right.
- [23:02]
A
But Magas and conservatives are the OG Cancelers. They'll cancel any. Any company that features a gay couple. They'll cancel any. Any group that suddenly, like, won't say Merry Christmas. And any Republican who didn't immediately suck up to Donald Trump like, look at Mitt Romney, immediately ousted from the Republican Party. Adam. How about Mike Pence, who never even left his conservative views, but just agreed to certify the 2020 election and they brought a noose to not just cancel, but to hang him. They have no problem with that. Oh, but you dare cancel us for flirting with Nazis? How dare. How dare.
- [23:51]
C
This has always kind of been like the illusion that the right has pushed. Right. They use language like free speech and, hey, we have to have a deb. All in a certain framework that welcomes the quote, unquote debate with Nazis, but won't talk to people who actually know what they're talking about when it comes to trans folks or how that works or how biology works. Right. Like, you know, if you notice anyone who's listened to either Charlie's show or Tucker show, you're not going to find anyone who's on the cutting edge of the science or the understanding of sexuality and gender, who's respected in their field. You're not going to find a doctor who knows what's up about vaccines to debunk vaccine rhetoric. Right. You're not going to find someone who would be, I don't know, more in favor of universal health care from, like, an economic standpoint. They're very selective in who they have on their shows. Right. And then when they go too far and they give that person, in this case Nick Fuentes, softball questions, you know, someone who says that Hitler was great, suddenly when he gets pushed back for doing that. Oh, but no, guys, the core of our message and our heartbeat is debating ideas. Well, no, it's certain ideas. The other ones you want to cancel, right. Michael Knowles, we have to eradicate transgenderism. That's not a debate. That's a statement of tyranny. Right. So you're absolutely correct, April. They're very sneaky about it. But what they mean behind the words does not. Does not include what you think it includes, so to speak.
- [25:26]
A
Right. And even. And we've talked about this before when we've discussed Charlie Kirk, too, but his idea of debate, yes, it was free speech. Ish. But it was just talking points. It wasn't true debate. And their idea of what racism is, like, they think if they don't want to kill someone of another race, that that means they're not racist. Like, there are so many layers of racism. That's a whole other topic.
- [25:52]
C
Matt Walsh made a mockumentary. Am I racist? Right. Like, there's. It's not. They're not curious people. They are. It's about protecting, right. The in group from any threat of losing their privilege. And here's the crazy thing, though. So Tucker in this speech keeps going. And this is why, this is why, in my opinion, Tucker is so sneaky. I want to play this clip. It's a little bit longer, but I think it's really worth listening to the same guy who just amplified Nick Fuentes, who says some of the most vile, dehumanizing stuff about other people groups like Jews and black folks and women, right after he does that. Tucker says this in his speech at America Fest. Just buckle up, friends. Buckle up.
- [26:34]
B
We are called to be righteous, but not self righteous. And we're also called, and I have to say this before opening it up to your hostile questions, we should also be very on guard against people who try to leverage the word of God, the words of Jesus, for political ends. That is one. That is a dangerous thing to do. Yes. I don't want to do that. And I attempt every time. This is all sort of new to me. I'm so obviously not a great Christian, that it's, it's not like a lot of people are going to be like, oh, I want to be like him. But there are people, particularly Christian ministers, I have noticed, who are preaching a political message and pretending that it's the gospel. So let me just say, and I think my theology is right, I'm hardly a theologian.
- [27:29]
C
It gets crazier.
- [27:31]
B
God is not on any country's side. Certain countries can decide to be on God's side. And that is true for people, too.
- [27:40]
C
Okay, my brain.
- [27:42]
B
God doesn't have a partisan affiliation. He doesn't have a nationality.
- [27:47]
C
Yes.
- [27:47]
B
And if someone is telling you otherwise, that is just not true. It is not true. And I would also call your attention to the very obvious prohibitions in the New Testament against killing the innocent. We are not, as Christians, allowed to kill the innocent, Period.
- [28:07]
C
We are not like people on boats.
- [28:08]
B
And you see elaborate arguments on behalf of doing so or ignoring it. Oh, that always happens in war. Well, you're right. One of the reasons I'm not that into wars, but when it does happen unavoidably, we have to say that's wrong. We have to say that. We have to acknowledge that was wrong. And I'm sorry for the extent to which I participated in it. Forgive me. Because killing people who committed no crime is immoral. It will always be immoral. And people who do it will be punished for it. And nations that endorse it will be punished for it.
- [28:45]
C
Right.
- [28:45]
B
That's a Fact.
- [28:46]
C
Yes.
- [28:47]
B
And you are seeing now. You are seeing now a very intense effort.
- [28:53]
C
Crazy.
- [28:54]
B
To convince you otherwise. Oh, it's fine. They deserved it. Really? Do their children deserve it?
- [28:59]
C
He's talking about Palestine.
- [29:00]
B
If a man commits a crime, do we kill his kids?
- [29:03]
C
Right.
- [29:03]
B
I don't care if it's in Minneapolis or Gaza City. No, we don't. Right. And if we do, accidentally, we say, I am so sorry that we murdered someone who did nothing wrong because it is murder. And to see Christian pastors make excuses for that is one of the most. And that's not a partisan question. That is not a political question. That is the only question that matters. Do we have the right to murder people? And the resounding answer that Christianity provides us is no.
- [29:36]
C
Right. Right. You're right, Tucker.
- [29:38]
B
I don't get into the whole debate. You know, I don't even. I didn't even know the terms dispensationalist, you know, or whatever. Replacement. I'm an Episcopalian, okay? I don't enter these debates.
- [29:48]
C
I know it's crazy. I told you, it's nuts.
- [29:50]
B
My theology is super simple. I like the Beatitudes. Read them yesterday, I actually think. Was it Michael reading them? Some of them here. I think any person, any honest person, say, it's the essence of the Christian faith. And killing tens of thousands of children and then making excuses for it on behalf of a foreign government is not in there. It's antithetical to that. Sorry. It doesn't make me a hater. It makes me the opponent of hate.
- [30:21]
A
Yeah.
- [30:21]
C
What? What? April, you see why people are confused? This is why people are confused. Because on one hand, they watch what Tucker does with Nic Fuentes. And then Shapiro rightly calls out Tucker for doing that. And I'm like, yes, Ben, you are right on that. And then Tucker goes on this diatribe about the importance of taking the Christian faith so seriously that you're committed to nonviolence and not killing innocent people, even if they're in Gaza. To which I go, yes, Tucker, you're right, and Ben is wrong on that. But also, Tucker, you're platforming Nazis.
- [30:57]
A
Well, and I think it's important to point out, because I. A lot of people that have it don't follow Tucker or this Christian nationalism like we do. We'll see that and think, Tucker Carlson's waking up, Right? But this group of people, and Candace Owens, I'd throw in this group, too, are calling out Israel and standing up for Palestine, not because they're pro Palestine, but because they're Anti Semitic.
- [31:23]
C
Agreed. Agreed.
- [31:25]
A
So don't get sucked in because.
- [31:26]
C
Agreed.
- [31:27]
A
They're, they're, they're arriving at a correct moral position through an immoral lens.
- [31:34]
C
If you are looking for quality Christian theology on Gaza, listen to the Palestinian Christians who are doing the work. Listen to Munther Isaac. Listen to my friend Daniel Bonanora. These are people who are amazing theologians, some of which live in modern in Palestine now doing the work that will help you unpack how this all works. You don't need to get it from Tucker, you don't need to get it from Candace. Okay? Because you're right. These people reinvent themselves all the time. Don't forget Candace Owens started out left and then she found solace in the right wing movement. Started the whole blexit thing, was close with Charlie. Right. And now she's even farther than that, down the rabbit hole and embracing blatantly anti Semitic ideas and conspiracies. I mean, she said after this, after this Ben Shapiro thing happened, she went on her platform and said, F you Ben. And then started reciting books that are inherent, that we know the authors of, are inherently anti Semitic, spreading tropes about Jewish people. So like you have to be able, this is why, friends, it's so important to use discernment and to not trust little clips of people that you see on the Internet because you don't know their motivation. Right. Candace is actually really smart in using the real genocide of the Palestinians to get people into her funnel of her content to push them more and more into anti Semitic conspiracy theories. Right. Because she's right when she says Netanyahu is a war criminal. Like yes, absolutely. But she'll keep that path going. Well, did you know, did you know that the Jews controlled the banks and they control Hollywood and they maybe even control Trump and maybe even Erica Kirk. And all of a sudden you're in a rabbit hole that you never expected hearing someone who sounds credible saying very uncredible things.
- [33:17]
A
Right, Exactly. But you know, he's, he said some, some pretty good truths there, so maybe it'll get through some people without making them be anti semitic 100%. Hey everyone, Melinda here.
- [33:31]
C
First and foremost, thank you so much for continuing to support TNY. 2025 was a heavy year, but you guys continue to show up and now we want to invite you to end the year strong with us. On December 30th at 7 Eastern Time.
- [33:45]
A
We'Re going to be hosting a live.
- [33:47]
C
Old school telethon style fundraiser on YouTube. We'll have some Special guests, some music, meaningful conversation and moments of reflection as.
- [33:55]
B
We celebrate five years of tne.
- [33:58]
C
Thank you so much for being here and we will see you on December 30th at 7pm. So after all that happens, obviously a lot of like the rank and file MAGA heads are going to want to try and keep the troops together. So Benny Johnson, who in my opinion is arguably the worst of the bunch, I mean, when it comes to the amount of lies he tells, the amount of hatred he spews, I just think this guy is like, he's in the running.
- [34:27]
A
I don't know how you could be the worst. They're all pretty terrible.
- [34:29]
C
Yeah, but Benny, there's something about Benny that just like really, it gets under my skin, I think because he, he sounds so confident, but he espouses so much bs. So here's a little clip of Benny trying to keep the troops together by blaming. Well, you'll hear who he blames for the problem.
- [34:45]
A
Society can't wait.
- [34:47]
C
Critical.
- [34:48]
B
I worked with Charlie for 10 years. This is so critical. Understanding who Charlie was and why he was so powerful. Charlie Kirk was somebody who united. I am sick of the division. I am calling it out. I call it out to its face. I disavow it. I'm sick of it. They're out killing us and we're in here squabbling and bitching and moaning and I'm sick of it. And I've had enough. I've had it up. You know who also said naughty words, you know, about Donald Trump, JD Vance. There was a time, JD Vance has answered for this a million times, that JD Vance didn't start off as a.
- [35:23]
C
Big time Trump supporter.
- [35:24]
B
Because of Charlie Kirk uniting our movement, we got this ticket.
- [35:28]
C
This was Charlie's legacy. Keep the troops together is because the.
- [35:35]
B
Left has decided to no longer debate. The real enemy is not somebody on your side who disagrees with you. The real enemy is the left who stopped debating and started killing.
- [35:47]
C
And those sons of bitches.
- [35:51]
B
Need to be called out. I'm sick of seeing my president get shot in the head. I'm sick of seeing my friends get shot on a live stream. I'm sick of seeing stories like Brown University this week with that wonderful, beautiful.
- [36:06]
C
Girl in the College Republicans who was targeted for assassination as well.
- [36:10]
B
So it's time to call evil out. And let's do that tonight, huh? Let's do that.
- [36:16]
C
So it's really important to just remember that we don't know the motivations of, of any three of those. In fact, my understanding Especially with the person who tried to kill Trump. Like there was, there was no left wing ideology. It was just like a Republican, wasn't he? But this is what they do, you know, like, like they're. We covered this before this year, April, that while yes, it's true that acts of left wing violence are, have gone up this year for the first time, like 35 years. Historically, right wing violence is not only more deadly, there are usually more acts of it over, over the past 35 years. And it's just really frustrating to watch people like Benny be completely so disingenuous about the violence. And also the idea that the left stopped debating. There's a tour that was going around that, that has, that tried to debate Charlie at his own events, like some of these progressive influencers. I think Dean Withers is one of them. And Charlie routinely wouldn't let them speak on the mic. Right. And also, let's not forget what the Trump administration is doing. It's not free speech. The way that they're going around silencing the rights of, in some cases US citizens arresting them with no due process.
- [37:24]
A
So not to mention pulling CBS 60 Minute segments that make them look bad.
- [37:29]
C
Right.
- [37:30]
A
That is not free speech.
- [37:31]
C
The Trump administration slaps these media companies with lawsuits and then forces them to settle and calls it a win. That's not free speech. But this is the environment. When you're at America Fest, that's the environment. You hear this reinforced over and over and over again that the left is the enemy. The left hates you. The left is.
- [37:51]
A
Which is dangerous.
- [37:52]
C
So dangerous. Because who is the left? What happens is it's intentionally non defined. So the person who leaves there, the rank and file can insert anyone who sounds liberal as the left.
- [38:05]
A
And let's not forget that you're right, they will, they will put the left label on anyone who isn't a loyal Trump supporter. Because Ted Cruz even like a month or two ago called Marjorie Taylor Greene very liberal.
- [38:23]
C
It's it. So it's a lot of propaganda. It's a lot of rhetoric. Yeah, but don't worry, you know who's gonna save the day? Because. Because Turning Point really cares about sexual purity. Why not have a guy on the stage who's currently facing rape charges in the uk? Why not bring Russell Brand on the stage in front of thousands of people to talk about the importance of unity. So what's Russell Brand have to say? Let's find out. Sure.
- [38:49]
B
I see things differently from Ben Shapiro. I gotta tell you, whilst I respect him, I respect his faith and I respect that we worship and praise the same God. I recognize that. But I believe it's important and vital to have conversations with people that oppose difficult opinions and opposing opinions. I've spoken to Nick Fuentes. I've spoken to Candace Owens. They're Christians like you and like me. And were they not. They're broken human beings like you, like me, like Ben Shapiro, like Tucker Carlson. No one's better than anyone else. We're all on our knees, shoulder, shoulder under the blood of Christ.
- [39:29]
C
And.
- [39:33]
B
Why would advocate.
- [39:34]
C
Okay, it stops there. Yep, yep, yep. Don't forget, April, you and I, not true Christians because we support the rights of our trans neighbors, our queer neighbors. We think that systemic racism exists, that DEI hire is not destroying the country, that people deserve affordable healthcare. But hey, Nick Fuentes, I love Hitler.
- [39:56]
A
They love to pull out the we all are covered under the blood of Christ when it's as long as that they're covering people that are on their team.
- [40:06]
C
Yeah.
- [40:06]
A
In their head, it doesn't matter what they do. And also, it's very rich from someone who has, as you said, rape charges. Literal, against, like literally to be like, we're all covered under the blood. We've all done bad things. Like, that's rich coming from Russell Brand. Also, like, even them talking about. It's just so hypocritical in the wake of all these Epstein files where it's just so obvious that Trump is part of it and is not a good guy.
- [40:38]
C
Yeah. I mean, what. Look, the, the evidence speaks for itself, right? I mean, it's really interesting how these folks define what a Christian is. It seems like this a Christian is anyone who agrees with their far right political maga ideology or is right of that. Right. If you're Nick Fuentes and you're on camera talking about crass things about how it's okay to sexually assault women. I mean, Nick says some pretty crass, gross things about people. He uses foul language. All the things that I was taught. You know, you couldn't say as a Christian. Right. You can't use curse words when I was growing up, but Nick can say that. And Russell Brand, the man facing rape charges in the uk, can get on a stage in front of tens of thousands of Christians and say, hey, we're all Christian, blood of Christ. And they cheer it. They cheer it.
- [41:21]
A
And Ben Shapiro is very openly not a Christian. He is Jewish.
- [41:26]
C
Yes. Okay, well, we're not done yet, friends.
- [41:30]
A
All right. Speaking of not a Christian, speaking of.
- [41:33]
C
Poor Vivek, man, that guy has gotten. He's been getting. Well, look, the right wing has been showing their racist teeth more and more, right? And Vivek has been the target of this many times from people in the audience, usually young white men asking him questions that fall in line with white nationalism that the VEC has the answer for. So Vivek gets on the stage and here's what he says, trying to keep the peace.
- [41:57]
B
If you believe that boys should compete with girls in girls sports, I'm sorry, you're not on the team. You have no place in this movement. If you believe. Thank you. It's pretty obvious, but I'm gonna say it anyway. If you believe in racial quotas, in government hiring, you have no place in the conservative movement. Sorry, you're not on the team. You're free to believe it, it's a free country. But you have no place in the conservative movement. If you believe in normalizing hatred towards any ethnic group, toward whites, towards blacks, towards Hispanics, towards Jews, towards Indians, you have no place in the future of the conservative movement.
- [42:34]
C
Has he not been seeing the deportations?
- [42:35]
B
I apologize for that, the kidnappings, when I say it, if you believe, and you will forgive me for giving you an exact quote from our online commentator, Nick Fuentes, if you believe that Hitler was pretty fucking cool, you have no place in the future of the conservative movement. You could debate foreign aid to Israel all you want, that's fine, that's fair. But you have no place with that level of hatred. You could debate the right resolution to the Russia Ukraine war, but if you believe Joseph Stalin is someone to look up to, you have no place in the future of the conservative movement.
- [43:09]
C
I mean, Vivek is just trying to.
- [43:10]
A
Tears are getting less and less.
- [43:12]
C
Right. Vivek is trying to walk them down the logic, right? Hey, we all agree that trans women in sports is bad, right? Yeah, absolutely. Hey, we agree that, you know, we shouldn't hate people based on the color of their skin. Right? Okay, so does that apply to Hindus? And then you know this person and also people who might praise Hitler, it's like more and more tepid, you know what I mean? And it's like, Vivek, this is what I don't understand about people like Vivek. Like, dude, you have to know that people in this movement are racist. I mean, what's the Trump administration doing? They are targeting brown skinned people with no due process. Again, many of them are turn out to be American citizens. They don't care that ICE is doing that. And Vivek's like, we shouldn't be taught we shouldn't be judging people based on the color of their skin. Like, dude, have you looked at the administration that you voted in and what they're currently doing?
- [44:08]
A
They have to live with so much cognitive dissonance.
- [44:12]
C
Took the words right out of my mouth. Exactly.
- [44:14]
A
I don't know if, like, maybe Vivek has come aware of it now because he's experienced a lot of racism within MAGA from maga because he's Hindu and he's not white.
- [44:25]
C
Right, right.
- [44:27]
A
And so I'm wondering if he's waking up to that fact and maybe like trying to change it from within. Same thing with Ben Shapiro. You know, like, you're dot. You don't have the right religion, you don't have the right skin color to be in this very white nationalist movement. Regardless of how much they say we welcome everybody. They don't.
- [44:47]
C
They don't. They absolutely do not. Ben Shapiro essentially has helped build the movement that is now eating him alive. Ben Shapiro built the modern notion of like this right wing media world that pushes farther and farther to the right. Don't forget Ben Shapiro. When Trump first came on the scene, Ben did a long video saying that Trump hates you, that Trump's a liar, that Trump's a con man. This is when the primaries were happening. Ben was not a Trump person. But Ben then got in line. His organization, the Daily Wire that hosts Matt Walsh at the time, Candace Owens, Michael Knowles, all got in line. And Ben built an organization full of people who held anti Semitic views. I mean, and I. The sad part is not that he listens to me, but like, people like us tried to warn him. Like Ben, this Christian nationalism thing is steeped in anti Semitism because the Protestant tradition is built in many ways on anti Semitism. Martin Luther was a raging anti Semite. He just was. Now, I'm not saying that people haven't repented of that and that there aren't ways to not be anti Semitic and Protestant for sure, but like the Christian nationalist, right, it's steeped in this stuff. And for some reason he kept on going and now he's, you know, I think he's peace paying the consequence. So, friends, before we get into this final video about the Civil War, what's up? What were you gonna say?
- [46:08]
A
No, nothing. Go ahead.
- [46:09]
C
Okay. I was gonna say, please give this video a. Like if you're watching it live on YouTube, if you're watching on Substack, I'm seeing the chat here. Thanks so much for tuning in. Smash that heart button. Please consider subscribing to Lincoln Square Media. If you have not yet subscribed to them, and if you're on YouTube, please subscribe to the show. It means the world. Okay, so all this is happening, but now it's time to bring in the big guns, April, you know, I mean, okay, all the little guys are fighting. Why don't we bring in the big guns for unity? J.D. vance. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [46:42]
A
Who once called Donald Trump America's Hitler, by the way, of course, in a negative, not a positive.
- [46:47]
C
Yeah, you gotta clarify, right? To be clear, that was an endearing term.
- [46:56]
A
God.
- [46:58]
C
Okay, here we go. This is what JD Vance part of his speech. We don't care if you're white or black, rich or poor, young or old, rural or urban, controversial or a little bit boring or somewhere in between.
- [47:18]
B
People of every faith come to our.
- [47:20]
C
Banner because they know that the America first movement will make their lives better. And they also know that the Democrats don't care about anything other than maybe transing their kids. Okay, we have to pause this one because there's just so many things that he says I don't know. Well, he's admitted, thanks to that Vanity Fair article that he's a conspiracy theorist or he likes conspiracies. So I don't know what world he's living in where he thinks that the MAGA movement is full of people of all different kinds of faiths. I mean, very few people are not Christian in that movement.
- [47:49]
A
It is overwhelmingly Islamophobia that's currently happening right now, too.
- [47:54]
C
Yeah, if you're Muslim, you're definitely not welcome because you're part of the surreal law deep state trying to, you know, make America the new caliphate or something. I don't know. And also this comment about. About the left, quote, unquote, transing their kids. This. So like I said earlier, friends, America Fest, in my opinion, is a good indication of where the rhetoric is heading in the following year. They were. I mean, when I was there three years ago, CRT was the big thing. Then it was immigration. And there's a lot of talk at America Fest in these speeches about the quote, unquote, transgender ideology coming for kids. Obviously, we know how ridiculous this is. In fact, a study found that 0.1% of people under 18 received some kind of gender affirming care in the form of maybe hormones. And there were no. No studies at all that demonstrated surgical procedures. Okay? So it's incredibly rare, incredibly so, for a minor to even come out as transgender. And we know from the data that gender affirming care is helpful and saves their life, but don't let facts and data get in the way of good propaganda. This world thinks that there is a movement that is just trying to turn all of their kids trans and that somehow that's happening in this country.
- [49:17]
A
Transgender is a noun.
- [49:19]
C
Yeah, thank you.
- [49:20]
A
That they've turned into a verb. Like it, it frustrates me when they say transing kids.
- [49:25]
C
It's crazy.
- [49:26]
A
Like, it's like is this. It's something you can do to someone. You can't just go and wave a wand, be like trans, right? Like kids are either trans or they're not trans. And they have been trans. There have been trans people in the world forever, right? They just now have more access to care to help with that. And. But it's still such a small, small, small percentage. And it's just so disingenuous the way they talk about the trans issue as if it's this huge thing that's happening. Like I literally got a comment the other day on one of my videos that had nothing to do with trans people and someone's like, oh, so you'd rather send your son to school and his teacher send him home a girl? Like, what? Teachers are not. Teachers have enough trouble getting funding for pencils and erasers in their class. They're not having full on surgeries in their classroom. Who's paying for that?
- [50:20]
C
I gotta give props to the right wing for creating really powerful fictional stories that get believed by a lot of people. Right? They are really good at creating narratives that just are not true and then running on platforms to stop the imaginary boogeyman that they've created to gain power and control. Don't forget, before Mike Johnson put the House in recess, they did one thing they didn't. They did. They did not extend the COVID era ACA subsidies that would have brought healthcare costs down for millions of people. No, no, no, they couldn't do that. And in fact, Mike Johnson intentionally stopped a vote that even some of his own Republican colleagues tried to force on the House to expend extend ACA subsidies so our premiums would not go through the roof next year. That didn't happen. But what they did do, thanks to Marjorie Taylor Greene, by the way, is introduce and pass a bill that would make it illegal for a doctor to give a minor any kind of gender affirming care and would potentially strip a hospital of receiving Medicaid reimbursements. They did do that for because 0.1% of of young people are seeking some kind of gender Affirming care. That's. That's the stat. And it is really unbelievable that we have allowed in this country culture wars to dictate our policy instead of the needs of the people. Right. We don't need bans that actually invade in the private life of parents and their children and their doctor. I thought that the right was all about small government. I guess not. We don't need that. What we need is affordable health care of this country. What we need are livable wages. We need to get a predatory college loan system in check. We need houses to be made affordable again. And the answer to that, by the way, Trump, is not 50 year mortgages that again benefit the big banks. But nope, nope, nope, no time for any of that. The good news is that in this Christian country, trans kids can't get access to healthcare. Had to spell it out there.
- [52:26]
A
No, you're so right. We've got a lot to get through because what we're gonna do next. Now we finished our clips for the Civil War.
- [52:32]
C
I mean, there's more of J.D. vance. I can stop, though, if you want.
- [52:36]
A
There's more. Oh, you're right.
- [52:37]
C
Just for sake of. Just for sake of putting a button on this. Right? Because the whole point of this clip was. I forgot you, JD Trying to bridge the gap between, hey, we can all make room here.
- [52:47]
A
Okay?
- [52:50]
C
So if you love America, if you want all of us to be richer, stronger, safer, and prouder, you have a home on this team. I didn't bring a list of conservatives to denounce or to deplatform. And I don't really care if some people out there. I'm sure we'll have the fake news media denounce me after this speech. But let me just say, the best way to honor Charlie is that none of us here should be doing something after Charlie's death that he himself refused to do in life. He invited all of us here. Charlie invited all of us here for a reason. Because he believed that each of us.
- [53:47]
B
All of us, had something worth saying.
- [53:49]
C
And he trusted all of you to make your own judgment. And we have far more important work.
- [53:57]
B
To do than canceling each other.
- [53:59]
C
We have got to build. And President Donald Trump is a builder. All right, Therehere you go. JD Van Stunner, rally the troops.
- [54:08]
A
I just want to acknowledge you had Vivek Ramaswamy that we. That clip before where he said, if you think Hitler is cool, you have no place in this movement.
- [54:17]
C
Right?
- [54:17]
A
And JD Vance just said, actually, you do. You're welcome here.
- [54:24]
C
Right? That's Right.
- [54:25]
A
That's the gist.
- [54:26]
C
It's a lot of contradictions, and you just don't really know how to make sense of a lot of this stuff. So. Okay, that's part one of our recap.
- [54:35]
A
Oh, gosh. All right. And then we're going to get to the Christian nationalism part because there is a lot of clips that are going viral from this, a lot of weird stuff that hopefully we have time to get to. But we really want to hone in on the Christian nationalism that was on display because this is not talked about as much and it is a huge piece of America Fest.
- [54:55]
C
I totally agree. April and I were former conservative Christian fundamentalists slash Christian nationalists. We were part of the movement that has given birth to Trump and even America Fest in a lot of ways. So a lot of our work now is exposing that side of things because frankly, it goes underreported and under misunderstood and also underestimated as well. Friends, this. This show, the Tim April show, is produced by the New Evangelicals. It's a nonprofit organization that is designed to help people be empowered to reject Christian nationalism and to help you find a better path, better path forward in your faith, rooted in love, justice, and inclusivity. If you're looking for a place to call home digitally trying to find better paths forward in your faith, I recommend joining TNE Connect. It's a free community space, tons of resources, tons of very cool things. Everything that the organization offers is totally paywall, free. You can go to tneconnect.com I'm sorry, you can go to the newevangelicals.com TNE Connect and join the community. We do free classes with scholars. We do regional group chats, all kinds of cool things. And if you want to support the show, if you love the Tim and April show, you like the work that we're doing, we are preparing for a very busy 2026. April and I are trying to evolve the show. So I have two asks. The first one is, I love your feedback. I would love to hear your feedback about the show. What is your favorite parts, what you want to see more of, and maybe what you can do without. You can email us at infothenewevangelicals.com we'd love your feedback. And secondly, if you want to support us, please consider becoming a monthly donor. The goal is to find a thousand people to donate five bucks a month to make the work of the New Evangelicals, which includes this show, possible. You can go to thenewevangelicals.com support to donate. Thank you so much for your generosity. It means the world.
- [56:38]
A
All right. Christian nationalism.
- [56:40]
C
Yeah. Okay.
- [56:42]
A
We got a lot here. So we just got.
- [56:46]
C
One of the things that I want to bring up. Let's see. Okay. All right, Millison. Okay, we can start here. I guess this is fine. Geez. There's just the hard part, April, if I can just be honest with you, the hard part about this is I know we're talking to a wider and wider audience, Right. Which I love. I mean, it's such a privilege to be able to talk to almost a thousand people live. And I always feel like it's hard to get people caught up on Christian nationalism. Like, what is it? What are we talking about? But, you know, it's just. It's tough to even know where to start, because Turning Point usa, in my opinion, really is one of, like, the biggest times where major Christian nationalist leaders, pastors, pundits, apologists, YouTubers kind of come together to talk about stuff, and it gets platform. And this is the stuff that really doesn't go viral a whole lot, because I think a lot of people don't understand it, and they just kind of write it off as, like, kooky or fringe. But frankly, it's a massive part of the MAGA agenda. So one of the people we wanted to bring up, the person in the middle, her name is Millicent Cedra.
- [57:44]
A
Her.
- [57:45]
C
I think it's either her brother or her husband. I'm pretty sure it's her brother, Andrew Sedra. His big thing is warning people of. Of the Islamic agenda coming for America. They're from Australia, but they also preached from the stage purity culture. Purity culture. And I want to play this clip and just so people can kind of hear what kind of sexual ethics are being presented here while they support a man who is. Who's also an adjudicated rapist. I just think it's an important dichotomy to present. Here we go.
- [58:15]
A
We live in a hookup culture that says you have to try it before you buy it. We live in a culture that says that sex is purely physical, but we know they're so spiritual. If he loves you, he'll wait for you. If he loves you, he'll wait for you. Don't be giving out men wife privileges if he's not willing to marry and commit to you. According to First Corinthians, sexual immorality is the only sin that you commit against your own body. And sex was simply not made to have outside of marriage. You can't get around it. There are no Loopholes. You can try as much as you want to twist and pervert the scriptures, but they all say the same thing. You cannot continue to follow God but look sin in the face.
- [58:56]
B
They don't go hand in hand. God isn't punishing us.
- [58:59]
A
He's saying, I love you so much.
- [59:00]
C
That I want to keep.
- [59:01]
A
Keep you from soul ties, Raising kids as a single mother, being with somebody that you don't even know if you love. Marrying the wrong person because you're so blinded by the lust. It's time to wake up.
- [59:13]
B
We do not have time to have.
- [59:14]
C
One foot in and one foot out.
- [59:16]
A
But call ourselves Christians.
- [59:19]
C
Do you, April, want to explain what a soul tie is for those who might not know? Because I'm sure some people are like, wait, what the heck is a soul tie?
- [59:27]
A
Okay, so basically, anybody that you have sex with, whether in marriage or out of marriage.
- [59:33]
C
Yeah.
- [59:34]
A
Or by assault.
- [59:36]
C
Yep.
- [59:37]
A
If you have sex, intercourse, you. A piece of your soul is forever intertwined with that person's soul.
- [59:44]
C
That's right. It sounds like witchcraft. It's just evangelical purity culture theology.
- [59:50]
A
Right. Which is what is. And I was taught if you had sex before marriage and then you marry someone else.
- [59:56]
C
That's right.
- [59:57]
A
Then every time you have sex with your spouse, you are bringing that third person or fourth person or however many people that your soul is tied to.
- [60:06]
C
Yep.
- [60:07]
A
That y' all are all having sex together.
- [60:09]
C
Yeah. Now, don't forget, this is the group of people who proudly rally behind a man who cheated on his third wife with an adult film star while she was pregnant, by the way, and lied about it. This is a man who has multiple, dozens of sexual assault allegations against him by women. This is a man who is very close to Epstein and all over the Epstein files. This is a man who's an adjudicated rapist. And these folks have the audacity to tell their followers the Bible is super clear about sex outside of marriage, and if you. If you have it, your life might be ruined. You might not have a good marriage. You might be single with children as a woman, yada, yada, yada. But the mascot, the person that they present, as you know, God's anointed lives the opposite of those values. That's just part of the inherent contradiction of Christian nationalism. They will make exceptions whenever it suits their narrative. Russell Brand facing rape charges in the uk, no problem. Put him on the stage. But you person in the stands had sex with your boyfriend because you're in love and you've been together for five years. Oh. Soul Tie soul, tie. God will not bless you.
- [61:24]
A
Nope.
- [61:25]
C
It's wild.
- [61:25]
A
Marriage is damned.
- [61:27]
C
The next clip I wanted to bring up, this is Lucas Miles. Now, again, this person goes under reported in mainstream circles. Lucas Miles is the director of Turning Point Faith. This is the guy overseeing that whole arm of Turning Point usa. Here's how he prayed when he opened up his speech for the night. Let's pray. Jesus, you're the king and we're not. We seek to submit ourselves to your word and your word alone. May you tear down every vain imagination and refocus our attention on you. And may your word and your kingdom and your light and your glory bring unity first in your church and then in this movement and ultimately in this world. We love you. Amen. This is what's so interesting is that this is an event that is built on the notion that the radical left or the leftist or the woke left or whoever, that they're quote, unquote, transing kids, that they're killing people. They killed Charlie Kirk. Right? The alleged shooter is not responsible. It is they who killed Charlie Kirk. And then you have at the same event, this pastor get up. Who oversees Turning Point Faith and prays for unity in the world while supporting an administration and regime that is all about disunity, I.e. sharing AI photos and videos of himself taking dumps on peaceful protesters. This is the inherent paradox of Christian nationalism. At the same event, you'll hear this, and you'll also hear Benny Johnson and you'll also hear J.D. vance say some of the most vile stuff against your political opponents.
- [63:19]
A
But it's these. These moments that keep your everyday churchgoer exactly inside Christian nationalism, because they see their pastor up there or someone else's pastor up there that brings validity to all the hateful rhetoric that is being said at other parts of the event.
- [63:38]
C
That's right.
- [63:40]
A
And they're like, oh, well, this pastor's here saying this. And that was a very Christiany prayer. Like, there was nothing necessarily wrong with that prayer. It was basic Christianity. They hear that and they somehow are able to cognitive dissonance their way into accepting everything else as part of being a Christ follower.
- [64:00]
C
Well, imagine praying for God's kingdom to come, you know, the kingdom that Jesus taught, which is loving your enemy and. And the. The first are last, and the last are first. And the importance of feeding the hungry, taking care of the sick, liberating the oppressed. Right. That's the kingdom that you read about in the four gospel accounts that Jesus reaffirms over and over, taking people in the on the margins of society and bringing them in towards the center and telling the rich and powerful that, hey, you gotta sell everything in order to enter this kingdom. That's the kingdom that Lucas is talking about at an event that is built on the backs of empire thinking, that is built on the ideals of colonization, that is built on the ideals of making everything great again. That serves them. But they can't see the disconnect. They just can't see it. Another notable mention. And again, this is insider baseball friends, that we have to bring you. This is, I think, for. For April and I, what really separates us from, like other shows is that we're really big on. On helping average Americans understand the players and what they actually believe and why it's worse than you think, unfortunately. So one of the people who spoke at the main stage of Turning Point USA's America Fest was a guy named Doug Wilson. Now, we've covered Doug Wilson on our YouTube channel. You can go to our podcast or YouTube channel to find those videos. I just want to say two things about Doug Wilson that everyone should know about briefly. Number one, Doug Wilson is the guy who went viral when he was interviewed by CNN for talking about the importance to take away women's right to vote. That, that, that, that we should go back to a one vote per family situation and that women just have babies and they really just do things that take no talent at all. That's who Doug Wilson is. Which, again, April, to your point, contradicts JD's narrative. Right. That all are, welcome to the MAGA movement.
- [65:49]
A
We treat you all the same.
- [65:50]
C
Exactly.
- [65:50]
A
And then Doug Wilson's here being like, nah, women actually don't deserve to vote.
- [65:54]
C
Doug Wilson also married off a known pedophile in his church named Steven Sitler to a woman in his church where Steven reoffended with their infant. That's a thing that Doug Wilson did. It's been well documented. And the last thing I want to. I want to do is I want to read an excerpt from his own book that he wrote. Okay. That he has defended. It's a book called Southern Slavery as it Was. It's a longer quote, but it's really worth reading. This is Doug Wilson, the guy on that stage that you're looking at speaking to thousands of people. Here's what he said. Slavery as it existed in the south was not an adversarial relationship with pervasive racial animosity because of its predominantly patriarchal character. It was a relationship based upon mutual affection and confidence. There has never been a multiracial society, which has existed with such mutual intimacy and harmony in the history of the world. The credit for this must go to the predominance of Christianity. The gospel enabled men who were distinct in nearly every way to live and work together, to be friends and often intimates. This happened to such an extent that. That moderns indoctrinated on civil rights propaganda would be thunderstruck to know the half of it. Slave, white, slave life was to the slaves a life of plenty of simple pleasures of food, clothes, and good medical care. In spite of the evils contained in the system, we cannot overlook the benefits of slavery. For both blacks and whites, slavery produced in the South a genuine affection between the races that we believe we can say has never existed in any nation before the war or since. This is why, folks, when you see me on threads or April on threads going, oh, my gosh, Doug Wilson, this is why we're freaking out, because this is who they have on the stage talking to people. These are the views. That's Doug Wilson's quote. I'm not mischaracterizing it. It's from his own blog where he. He quotes himself. That's what Doug Wilson believes.
- [67:57]
A
And they. They validate him by giving him a platform.
- [68:01]
C
Totally.
- [68:02]
B
Totally.
- [68:04]
C
Okay, let's keep going.
- [68:05]
A
Okay. There's a lot more. Where. Where do we're not gonna. I don't know. I think we're gonna have time to get to all this. It's already 110.
- [68:10]
C
Let's get to Ali Stuckey for sure. We have to get to that.
- [68:12]
A
Okay.
- [68:13]
C
I think 100%. I think 100%. We're getting there. Friends, give this video a. Like, show us some love. You know, to be clear, just so people know, April and I are our own producers as well. I'm. We spend several hours ahead of time pulling all the clips, put them together for you. And I mean, we love it, to be clear, but it's just us trying to make it work, so we're doing our best. Thanks for the patience.
- [68:35]
B
Okay.
- [68:35]
C
Yeah, this is. This is a good clip. Let's. Let's talk about Ali Stuckey. I have two clips from her. Here's the first one. Ali, I think, is maybe one of the sneakiest, in my opinion, with how she sugarcoats and literally whitewashes, like, really disingenuous takes and also takes that I think are. Are racist in nature.
- [68:55]
B
But.
- [68:55]
C
Okay, here's what she said at America Fest.
- [68:57]
A
While I do think it's important to find unity, I actually think that truth is more Important than that, you're discouraged by the disagreements and the division and the debates. I understand it can feel demoralizing. But let me tell you why this happens so much on the right, seemingly more than it happens on the left. There is a difference in the nature of progressivism versus conservatism. Progressivism sets out to destroy. And if you are destroying something, destroying Western civilization, destroying the church, destroying the family, it does not matter how you do it. You don't really have to agree on much. But on the right, on the conservative side, we are trying to build something. And when you're building something, you have to agree on a lot. Most importantly, you have to agree on, on a foundation. Let me tell you, as Christians, what we cannot waver on, what we cannot compromise on. And not everyone is going to agree with us on the right about this. But our job is to pull them over in our direction, not to compromise in their direction, even if people call us divisive for doing so. The foundation must be, for all of our politics, this very basic idea that we were made by a creator in his image, whose power transcends that of the government. And therefore this creator and this creator alone is the giver and the determinant of our rights, the arbiter of what is right, what is wrong, what is true, what is false. Because without that foundation, what are we doing without that foundation? The idea of limited government or the sovereignty of the individual or the legitimacy of borders, none of that makes a whole lot of sense.
- [70:42]
C
I have a few thoughts. Do you have any? I don't want to. I mean, I don't want to hijack the conversation here, but I have a lot of thoughts.
- [70:48]
A
No, it's just the idea that the right fights more than the left makes me feel appallingly.
- [70:55]
C
Yeah, I mean, the left is known for the purity testing. And like, I mean, it's. It's honestly hilarious that Ali. For the first time, Ali has gotten some. Some. She's got into a feud with Candace Owens, and somehow she thinks that, like, the right's falling apart. And it's, It's, It's. It's. It's so much more disjointed than the left. Like, okay, there's a reason why the left has no version of Turning Point usa. Okay, there's a reason for that. But I think it's interesting that she really thinks that progressivism wants to destroy and conservatism wants to build.
- [71:30]
B
I don't know, Ali, what are you talking about?
- [71:32]
C
Progressives in general, like, want universal health care. That doesn't sound like destroying anything. They, they want their immigrant neighbor not to be kidnapped from by the government. They, they don't want kids to build.
- [71:44]
A
Access to citizenship like a pathway.
- [71:47]
C
We want to build a world where our kids aren't dying at the hands of mass shootings in schools. I, I, I, it's really interesting that she thinks that the left is coming after the church when many progressives are Christian. I mean, the black church in particular votes very Democrat, so to speak. Okay. For her just to write off that entire section of Christianity, I just think is very telling, you know, like kind of how she sees the world. And I think the other thing that's interesting is how, and this is a very common, I would argue, fatal flaw in Christian fundamentalism. She keeps appealing to God and truth of God's word. But of course, by whose standard? According to whose interpretation? Ally, why should we give your interpretation of the Bible any more credit than then a prosperity gospel? You know, like, like Paula White. Why, why, why, why should we? Why should we? This notion for her about the power of limited government and the rights of the individual also falls apart once it becomes about the immigrant or it becomes about the people in boats in international waters who she celebrates the killing of. Right. So again, it's, it sounds nice on the surface. Oh yeah, Ali, you're right. Like we, as Christians, we should, you know, reflect the imago dei, the image of God and other people. But her policies actually prioritize a certain type of individual that looks and thinks and talks like her while denigrating the rights of other individuals who she thinks are, you know, bad or somehow deserving of, of, of execution with no due process. And that brings me to the second clip here from Ali. I think we should talk about, and then we'll, we'll move on our motto.
- [73:26]
A
But let me tell you as a Christian, something that a lot of people don't want to talk about, but I know everyone in this room wants to hear and agrees with. One way that Christians can glorify God, one way that Christians can love our neighbor as we await the perfect and sure victory of Jesus Christ is through politics.
- [73:51]
C
I agree.
- [73:52]
A
Through politics. See, politics matter because policy matters, because people matter.
- [74:00]
C
Agreed.
- [74:01]
A
Politics affects policy. Policy affects people. People are made in the image of God. People matter to God and therefore they matter to us.
- [74:12]
C
Agreed.
- [74:13]
A
And so Christians don't have an option, nor should we want the option not to be political. That doesn't mean that politics is the primary way or the only way that we love our neighbor. But it is a way to love our neighbor.
- [74:29]
C
Yes.
- [74:30]
A
Because our most vulnerable neighbors are affected by politics.
- [74:34]
C
Agreed.
- [74:35]
A
Which is policy.
- [74:37]
C
Who are they?
- [74:38]
A
Our unborn neighbor is affected by our politics.
- [74:43]
C
There we go.
- [74:44]
A
The child who is confused about their gender is affected by our politics.
- [74:53]
C
Okay, that is the trick right there. You start off on this idea that it's, I think, really great. You're right. Policy affects people. You know, politics. For sure. For sure. Who is Ali referring to here? Not the mass incarcerated. Not. Not the children who had SNAP benefits ripped out of their hands. Not the kids who can't get affordable health care. Not the parents who can't afford the premiums. Not. Not the immigrants who are being kidnapped and their children ripped out of their arms. No, no. The unborn. You know, a very convenient group to talk about because you don't have to pay for any of their stuff.
- [75:38]
A
I just want to read a Methodist pastor, David Barnhart. He's got a great quote that directly talks about this, about the unborn. I just want to read it real quick. The unborn are a convenient group of people to advocate for. They never make demands of you. They are morally uncomplicated. Unlike the incarcerated, addicted, or the chronically poor. They don't resent your condescension or complain that you are not politically correct. Unlike widows, they don't ask you to question patriarchy. Unlike orphans, they don't need money, education, or childcare. Unlike aliens, they don't bring all that racial, cultural and religious baggage that you dislike. They allow you to feel good about yourself without any work at creating or maintaining relationships. And when they are born, you can forget about them because they cease to be unborn. You can love the unborn and advocate for them without substantially challenging your own wealth, power or privilege, without reimagining social structures, apologizing or making reparations to anyone. They are, in short, the perfect people to love. If you want to claim you love Jesus, but actually dislike people who breathe, prisoners, immigrants, the sick, the poor, widows, orphans, all the groups that are specifically mentioned in the Bible, they all get thrown under the bus for the unborn.
- [76:58]
C
Yep. Our executive director of tne, Melinda Hale, did a response video to this on our Instagram channel, and she quoted part of that and put it on the screen. And it's exactly right. I mean, she gave a great rebuttal to this. You can check it out on the Instagram. But you're. You're right. You're exactly right. There's a reason why. Right. When it comes to once the. Once it comes to A child being born. There's a reason why people like Allie will never advocate for universal healthcare or guaranteed paid maternity leave. Because they just don't care. They just don't care about those things. They do not care about children. Once they're born, they'll say that they do. They'll say no. Tim, that's so callous. But look at how they vote. And we're gonna use Ali's logic here. I agree. Policies impact people. So what policies by the administration that you have simped for and that you voted in and protect? What have they done for children? Nothing. Nothing. And stopping trans children from getting gender affirming care is deadly for them. Ali. So this is how Friends, the Christian nationalist worldview works. They have a very unique, I'll put that, put it politely, understanding of the Bible, the English Protestant Bible, but they believe that they are just plainly reading the words of God in context and just following the laws of God that just happen to reflect all their culture war talking points. Which of course is hilarious considering Jesus never, never talks about trans people. Jesus never mentions abortion. Jesus never tells his followers to put the ten Commandments in the classrooms in Rome. Jesus never tells his followers to invite the emperor to their religious gatherings to court his favorite. Jesus doesn't tell people to run for school board to take it over. No. He says to take care of the sick, to feed the hungry, to fight for those incarcerated, visit those in prison. That's what he says to do. But that doesn't matter. That doesn't matter. That's how it works. Yeah, that's the logic of it.
- [79:06]
A
Marshall's buyers are hustling hard to get amazing new gifts into stores right up to the last minute. Like a designer perfume for that friend who never RSVP'd wishlist topping toys for.
- [79:17]
C
Her kids who came too.
- [79:18]
A
Belgian chocolates for the neighbor, a cozy scarf for your boss and a wool jacket for your husband that you definitely did not. Almost forget. Marshalls.
- [79:28]
C
We get the deals, you get the good stuff.
- [79:31]
A
Even at the last minute. Phew. Find a Marshall's near you.
- [79:36]
C
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- [80:08]
B
Name is Brent, and I live in central Illinois. And I'm a new donor to the New Evangelicals. I spent about 30 years in ministry, half the time as a missionary overseas and half the time serving in two small US Churches as a pastor. During those years, I had lots of questions and doubts, and I saw so many inconsistencies in the way that we dealt with theology and the Bible and just our American church culture. It was very frustrating to me. And so I kept going to sources to try to find answers to make sense of it all, but just never found something that made sense to me. A year ago, I did step down from being a pastor, not because of those things, but for other reasons. And I started a deep dive into going to other sources, including the New Evangelicals podcast that has really helped me to reframe my faith. And it's kind of like the old prescription of glasses that I was wearing to see God and my faith and Christianity just wasn't cutting it anymore. And the new prescription of glasses has allowed me to be able to see things so much better. So I'm on a different path, and I'm very thankful to Tim and the New Evangelicals for introducing me to different guests and commentaries. That's helping reshape my faith. So being a donor is a great privilege, and I appreciate the work you're doing.
- [81:35]
A
Okay, what do we want to cover? It is 120.
- [81:37]
C
I'm going.
- [81:38]
A
I'm going a lot more.
- [81:39]
C
I have a thread. I have a thread. And then. And then we'll wrap it. At the same time that you have people like Ali arguing for the importance of, you know, putting this fundamentalist faith into action. You have people like this. This is Keenan Clark. I think he's like an online YouTuber saying things like this. This is, I think, just a really good. This is a really good example of what a lot of us were taught kind of in church and kind of the intensity with which we were given this message. You may be loved in conservative circles, but you can be loved in those.
- [82:09]
B
Circles and still hear, depart from me. I know you not. You can fight to end abortion. You can try to argue against the lies of transgenderism. You can try to preserve the next generation against the evil indoctrination that is undergoing.
- [82:23]
C
But if you have not submitted to.
- [82:25]
B
The lordship of Jesus Christ, though you.
- [82:28]
C
Were a conservative, you will find yourself.
- [82:30]
B
In the bowels of a devil's hell, and you will not have the power you need to do the thing that.
- [82:36]
C
God's called you to do. Jump, scare it's just crazy, man. It's crazy. I'm sorry. Like, I grew up this way, you know, the music is not ours. It was in the video. I know it was kind of loud. I couldn't control that. But, yeah, I mean, that's also preached at America Fest. Right? So, yeah. I don't know. I mean, we could stop there. There's. I mean, J.D. vance.
- [83:03]
A
No, there's a lot of good ones still.
- [83:05]
B
Okay.
- [83:06]
C
What do you want me to play?
- [83:08]
A
Do you think Ken Paxton or. Yeah. Or J.D. vance. God, there's so many.
- [83:14]
C
Well, J.D. vance made a couple interesting comments. Is this the one that we have? I have a lot of J.D. vance ones. This was. This one is pretty important, I think. Pride to Flight. It's pretty short, too. Again, it's just really important to hear this message reinforced all day at these events. Here we go. J.D. vance. That unites us. But I want to say something here. The only thing that has truly served as an anchor of the United States of America is that we have been, and by the grace of God, we always will be, a Christian nation. Now, this is the same JD Vance who a few minutes ago. Right. Said that people of all faiths are part of this movement. People of all walks of life are part of this movement. Well, this is. This is the quiet part out loud. Well, as long as you assimilate into this notion that we are a conservative, white, Christian nation, you'll be just fine. But the second you want to hold on to your own religious traditions in America and even celebrate those things, now you're a threat to America and everything it stands for. That's kind of how it works.
- [84:16]
A
Yep.
- [84:17]
C
Do you have any comments?
- [84:19]
A
He also said in that same speech that we no longer have to apologize for being white.
- [84:24]
C
I have that clip. I can pull it if you want.
- [84:27]
A
I mean, that's what he said. That's a direct quote, so we probably don't have to watch it, but it's just so disingenuous. And also, JD Vance's kids are not white. He's, like, promoting a world that's not going to be kind to his own family.
- [84:43]
C
See, we had Steve Bannon. Gosh, yeah.
- [84:47]
A
I was gonna say Steve Bannon and Ken Paxton.
- [84:49]
C
Okay, here's Steve Bannon talking about Charlie Kirk.
- [84:53]
B
You are in the shadows of a giant, not just an American patriot and an American hero. Charlie Kirk is a Christian martyr, and Charlie Kirk is a Christian saint.
- [85:10]
C
There you go. He is a.
- [85:12]
A
If you want to. We went into a deep dive on the martyr aspect of Charlie Kirk and what they were going to push a couple months back, if you want to go into that. But it is so the idea that Charlie Kirk is a Christian martyr. Charlie Kirk was not known for loving his neighbor. He was not known for. For following the Beatitudes or preaching the Sermon on the Mount. Like, he was known for his political hot takes and quote, unquote, owning college students.
- [85:47]
C
Yeah, I mean, look, I don't want to sound, you know, like, ridiculous, but just go read the red letters of Christ and listen to Charlie Kirk. I mean, just. This shouldn't be controversial, guys. I mean, Charlie Kirk literally said that black women don't have the brain processing power to do, like, certain jobs. I. I don't know in what world you think that's, like, what. How a Christian martyr would ever talk. And by the way, like, Charlie did not put himself willingly in harm's way for, like, the gospel. He built an empire of lavishness and privilege. I mean, he did. Obviously, what happened to him was terrible. And we talked about this over and over again. It's wrong. It should never have happened. But we don't know this shooter's motives as of this time. In fact, it seems kind of convoluted and so far has nothing to do with him being a Christian.
- [86:32]
A
Yeah. Yeah. Steve Bannon also goes on. He says that we need to re. Christianize America. Like, there was a lot of talk of America being a Christian nation, big time. But I want to go to Ken Paxton's video because this is such an overt.
- [86:47]
C
Do you know who Ken Paxton is? I don't know who he is. Maybe I should know. I didn't get a time to look him up.
- [86:51]
A
He was the. Was he the Attorney General in Texas? Yeah, the Texas Attorney General. I think he recently, like, went through a divorce or is going through a divorce, and it's like a pretty nasty one. Oh, but he. He's a big name in Texas. Yeah.
- [87:08]
C
Let's hear what he had to say.
- [87:10]
B
And then, of course, Charlie and his life. I knew Charlie. I met him when he was 20, thought he was a pretty normal guy. I met him at the Trump Hotel, and we just kind of hung out. And then over the years, people were telling me how special he was and.
- [87:24]
C
He was going to do great things.
- [87:25]
B
And I was like, yeah, he just seems like a normal guy to me. Obviously dealt with adversity every day as he challenged people to be different. He challenged them in their faith, and he dealt with adversity. And I want to come back to Charlie, but obviously his Life ended in adversity.
- [87:50]
C
Charlie died at. He was almost 32, I think that's correct. There was somebody else that was on.
- [87:56]
B
Earth that accomplished a lot in a.
- [87:58]
C
Short time, just like Charlie.
- [87:59]
B
His name was Jesus. He died at 33.
- [88:03]
C
Oh my God. No.
- [88:08]
A
This is what pisses me off about this, is that there are going to be impressionable young people that are going to hear this conflation of Charlie Kirk with Jesus Christ, that they're going to hear this narrative that Charlie Kirk was a Christian martyr. And then because they have elevated Charlie Kirk to saint, like they're going to go back and watch clips of what Charlie Kirk said because they're all over the Internet and they're going to equate Charlie Kirk's racism and misogyny and white supremacy and homophobia and bigotry with being a Christ follower. They are going to conflate their faith with hatred. And that needs to be called out every single moment. Because Jesus Christ, if you read the red letters, is the antithesis of the people's rhetoric that wear those red hats.
- [89:05]
C
These are the same people who want Derek Chauvin acquitted when Christ would have been the first person over George Floyd's body from Derek. You know what I'm saying? Like, like it just, this is what I don't get. Like, like the entire worldview of these folks is built on cruelty of the other. Like, it's just built on, on cruelty and cruelty and, and propaganda and cruelty. I mean, Jesus literally was known for eating with the people that society hated. Tax collectors, sex workers. These were not well respected people. People who were sick with leprosy. The exact people that folks like Charlie denigrate daily or denigrated daily. That's who Jesus would be with. Maybe that's why we don't see any Bibles out at this event. Maybe that's why we don't see any Bibles really being opened whenever they talk God or Christian nationalism. Because they're not reading from like the Beatitudes.
- [90:09]
A
Well, to be fair, they do open their Bibles, but they like to read the Hebrew Bible and the Old Testament and the stuff that's about gay people.
- [90:17]
C
Yeah.
- [90:18]
A
Which homosexuality. It doesn't matter how they interpret it. But they, there are verses in there too that they can use to justify their bigotry. But it is heavily, heavily cherry picked.
- [90:28]
C
Yeah. Well, do you want, do you want to get to a few of the weird things? We have like two or three.
- [90:32]
A
Here's my, here's my suggestion. Let's skip our weird Christian beep video because it's unrelated to all of this. And let's just do a giant weird Christian beep segment with these weirder clips that. That don't necessarily fall in the civil war or the Christian nationalist segment that. But they're just weird.
- [90:48]
C
I'm still gonna play the singer.
- [90:50]
A
Okay, do it. Weird.
- [90:57]
C
Friends, before we get into this, thank you so much for being here. It means the world. As always, please give this video a like if you're watching on YouTube. And please give the heart button a smash if you're on Substack. The New Evangelicals produces this show. It's a non profit organization. Please consider becoming a donor to help make this work possible. It's going to be a very busy 2026, and frankly, we can't do this work without your support. You can go to thenuevangelicals.com support to donate. Our goal is to find a thousand people who would give one cup of coffee every month, five bucks a month. It would really help make this show possible for 2026. Thank you so much for your generosity. It means the world. Okay. I mean, I gotta be honest, I was so looking forward to the weird Christian bleep. But we can push it for next time. It's a good one. It's short and it's good to be clear. Okay, weird moment. Here's one from Megyn Kelly.
- [91:46]
A
But I actually felt. I felt like it was divine right order. And I have to tell you, Jack, I've prayed so many times, so many times to Charlie and to God to give me the right guidance on how.
- [91:56]
B
To handle this whole thing.
- [92:00]
C
You know?
- [92:01]
A
Is she turning Catholic and praying?
- [92:02]
C
I was gonna say, I'm not sure if Megan's aware that for evangelicals and Protestants, you know, that'd be blasphemy. That. That is. I mean, that's a big no. No, Megan, you don't pray to dead people in the. In the evangelical tradition. Okay. You really. No, I thought that was funny. It was like, like, again, they will tolerate so much if you just give the right lip service to the right political agenda. Right. Other weird things. We had to play Erica Kirk's walkout. I think we have to. We just have to. And then we'll give some thoughts.
- [92:54]
A
Like so WWE coded.
- [92:59]
C
Pause. Look at that shot. I'm sorry, I. I hate talking about this because she did lose her husband, but also she's so publicly, like, gaudy about it.
- [93:13]
A
It's very odd. I gave her a lot of grace in the beginning because I was like, everybody grieves differently. But this is. This is. This is next level. You know what can I just tell you? I actually apologize to my mom this week because when my dad died and she became a widow, I did not turn her into a widow rock star. Like, at my dad's funeral. I didn't introduce her. Like, introducing. You know, like, I didn't give her. I didn't get her a CBS town hall. I didn't make merch to sell. Like, I really didn't capitalize on the situation that apparently you should do when you become a widow.
- [93:49]
C
Here's the thing, April. I, like you, am a very empathetic person. And unlike Allie, I don't think empathy is toxic. And so even people that I know are problematic and are dangerous, there's still a moment where I go, well, as human beings, we have to have some kind of commonality that we're both humans, that we both bleed when we're cut. Right? And so what I hate about this is that I don't believe in dehumanization. I don't believe in returning that kind of, you know, hatred with hatred. And so you want to give Erica grace in the sense of, like. Yeah, like, it's very. I mean, how it happened, what happened, her kids. It's all trauma, for sure. But the way that she's choosing to go about it, along with, like, how TPUSA is presenting her, it doesn't add up. I mean, if Sarah. If my wife died in a car accident, you think I'd be live streaming today? If it happened in September, you think I'd be on this show talking about things like, it's all hunky dory? You think I'd be promoting a new book or, like, on, you know, doing some kind of, like, podcasting tour, talking about the organization, the new evangelicals? No, No, I wouldn't. I'd be with my kids.
- [94:55]
A
Yeah. I will say all gold. There is this. This toxic positivity that does exist within evangelical spaces that, you know, Christians shouldn't be sad. Why should Erica be sad? Because Charlie Kirk is in heaven. Like, that rhetoric was said to me when my dad passed away, like, you know, a sad Christian is a bad witness. So it's weird how it is. It is just very weird. She just seems very happy. Also, did you see someone brought up in the comments? I was going to mention this, too. They had a replica tent.
- [95:27]
C
Oh, I had that. I had that. I pulled it.
- [95:29]
A
The exact same setup that Charlie Kirk was, where he was murdered. They replicated that so people could take selfies in it. That's weird.
- [95:39]
C
I. I just. I'm not sure what to do with this. I'm just. I don't know. And I. I feel a lot of competing tensions. Like, look, the Internet is judgy, right? It's our job as. As people doing this work to make comments. And I know that people looking like can put their. Their worst foot forward on the Internet and just, like, have no grace for anyone. But, like, guys, I'm sorry. Turning point. It's bizarre that you would bring a tent that Charlie was killed in or a replica of it and encourage people to take photos inside of it. Like, that's. He. What? Like, hey, Sarah, if you're listening, if I die in a really weird, tragic way, don't take my chair and have people sit in it and take photos with themselves. Like, don't do any of that.
- [96:20]
B
Just.
- [96:20]
C
Just. Just don't do that. It's just. It'd be a weird look. Be weird. It's weird.
- [96:28]
A
I missed the opportunity to recreate the hospice bed that my dad died in in our living room.
- [96:35]
C
April, I'm glad you can laugh about it. I cannot. Oh, my God.
- [96:39]
A
It's like that dead. It's that dead dad humor.
- [96:42]
C
Hey, you can do it.
- [96:43]
A
We have to have dark humor to survive.
- [96:45]
C
Hey, do it. Yeah. No judgment from me. Okay. Oh, we have some super chats. Should we just knock these out briefly? We have a few of them, yeah. You want to read some of these? Let's see. Wow. We got a bunch, guys. Thanks for your generosity today. It really means the world really helps. I think we start here. Okay. Can you read this?
- [97:03]
A
Yes. From NID Y. I have a saying for this. Nobody is pure enough for fascism.
- [97:09]
C
That's good.
- [97:10]
A
Yeah.
- [97:10]
C
Next.
- [97:11]
A
Joseph Compton again, thank you. Ah, yes. More lies and propaganda from the right. We're still up for debates. They're not.
- [97:19]
C
Okay, next.
- [97:20]
A
From. You skipped one.
- [97:21]
C
Did you mean accident?
- [97:23]
A
Yeah. From Annika Breeden. Totally off topic, but I just wanted to wish you and your families a wonderful Christmas. I look forward to your show every week. I appreciate you both and all you do so much. Keep up the good work. Thank you. From Sentient Spy. Soy Soy. That's hard Vivec. Hoping to throw transgender people under the bus hard enough to distract from the fact that he is Hindu. They're not going to pick you, bro.
- [97:52]
C
Yep, yep.
- [97:53]
A
Yeah, I feel that. Joseph Compton, thank you again. Blasphemy. Charlie ain't a saint.
- [97:58]
C
And last one.
- [98:00]
A
And from Annette Parchesi, 1832. Have a merry and messy Human Christmas, everyone. I recommend you all listen to Bruce Cockburn's Cry of a Tiny Babe after this.
- [98:11]
C
All right, last clip we have. Thanks, everyone, again for the super chats. Yes, thank you, Nikki.
- [98:19]
A
Nicki Minaj.
- [98:21]
C
Nicki Minaj.
- [98:22]
A
Was there was a. Did she just interview Erica or did she speak?
- [98:28]
C
Probably a little bit of both. I mean, again, this is a couple months ago. People were like, nikki, so crass. Her lyrics are so not appropriate for children. I can't believe this is. This is the decay of culture. And now that Nikki is singing Trump's praises. Oh, Nikki, welcome into Turning Point. Everything is great. No problem. Yeah, no problem. Everything's good. Well, she had a faux pas. Let's just play the clip. Here we go.
- [98:53]
A
Young men, you have amazing role models, like our.
- [99:02]
B
Handsome, dashing president.
- [99:08]
A
And you have amazing role models, like.
- [99:11]
B
The assassin JD Vance, our vice president.
- [99:17]
A
And when I say that.
- [99:24]
C
Oh, she just realized what she said.
- [99:26]
B
Trust me, there's nothing new under the sun that I have not heard. So you're fine. Yes, we did. Oh, you have to laugh about it, Truly.
- [99:42]
A
I have been called every single thing.
- [99:44]
B
And you know what? God is so good, you let it roll right off your back. And this is what's so beautiful about this moment, because if the Internet wants to clip it, who cares? I love this woman.
- [99:56]
A
She's an amazing woman.
- [99:57]
B
She has a, A soul and a.
- [99:59]
A
Heart for the Lord, and words are.
- [100:02]
B
Words, but I know her heart, and.
- [100:04]
C
It doesn't even matter.
- [100:05]
B
And you say what you want to say, because I know your heart. I will not judge that. Thank you for.
- [100:14]
A
For boys. Boys. Be boys.
- [100:19]
B
Amen. Be boys.
- [100:20]
A
It's okay. Be boys. It's nothing wrong with being a boy. How about that? Amen. I, I, I don't know where that pivot came from.
- [100:33]
C
Well, I'm glad I have Nicky's approval to keep being a boy. I was concerned for a minute, you know, because I can't be me. I guess that's. I don't know. Oh, boy.
- [100:43]
A
I just want to point out that both Nicki Minaj's husband and brother are sex offenders.
- [100:51]
C
Really?
- [100:52]
A
Yeah.
- [100:53]
C
Her husband is, too.
- [100:55]
A
Yeah. Like a registered offender from. I mean, it was from a while ago, but, yeah, you can, you can Google that. Just, Just interesting.
- [101:04]
C
It really is the epitome of what the great Diedrich Bonhoeffer called is cheap grace. In these spaces. There's. There's no cost. A radical discipleship as a Christian in the maga movement. It is simply lip service and then just agreeing with their maga agenda. And you're in. Doesn't matter what you did, how you did it, what you said, or how you behaved, or your lack of change, as long as you say the right words, you're all good. I mean, it's. It's unbelievable. So. Oh, friends, that is. That's our quick recap. I got April, if I could be real. It is so bizarre not coming home from America Fest. I mean, I, I. Next year, I'm going. I want you to come with me, by the way. I told you that. But I'm definitely going back next year. But, yeah, that. That's our overview. Obviously, I think that there are more videos to respond to. I'm sure we'll pull a few in their entirety for our YouTube, like, you know, standalone episodes. But it was really important that we kind of went through because people just don't understand the influence that not only Turning Point has, but that America Fest has on the state of the predominantly white evangelical church and the MAGA movement. So, yeah, I think it was really key. Really key for us to cover.
- [102:13]
A
Yeah.
- [102:13]
C
Yeah. Hey, this is our last show before the new year.
- [102:18]
A
It is. That's right. We hope that you all have a Merry, Merry Christmas, because we obviously will not be live on Thursday.
- [102:24]
C
Yes.
- [102:24]
A
Because of Christmas Day.
- [102:27]
C
Yes.
- [102:27]
A
And then next Tuesday, we have an episode that we're releasing, but we will not be live. But we will be live next Thursday.
- [102:35]
C
On New Year's Day.
- [102:36]
A
Normal at normal time. New Year's Day, January 1st.
- [102:39]
C
I'm excited. It's been a good April. Even though we've covered a lot of bad news on this show, I think it's been a good year for the show, and I've really enjoyed doing this with you. It's been great being on the. With the audience. It's been great going on substack this year. So, I mean, there's a lot to be grateful for, I think, overall.
- [102:55]
A
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's a weird world. I would love a slow week. I would love to not have to cover this crap.
- [103:03]
C
Yeah, no, I'm with you. I'm with you. Yeah.
- [103:05]
A
But we're not alone. You're not alone.
- [103:07]
C
Right?
- [103:08]
A
We'll get.
- [103:08]
C
I mean, maybe that's the kind of. Maybe we'll end on that note. Just thank you so much for being here. I mean, we say it all the time, but it's true. Like, without an audience, us doing this show is pretty meaningless and is kind of a waste of our time. And frankly, April and I love doing this work. Like, we really love going live. We love talking to all of you. We love seeing familiar faces in the chat. We love looking at the comments like it's just really helpful for us and makes us feel not as alone either. So that's kind of our message to you. We hope that you have a great Christmas and a good new Year but you're not alone. Like we see the same stuff you do and we are committed to not normalizing what should not be normalized. We're committed to exposing the danger and harm of this administration and what they're doing to our neighbors because frankly it needs to be exposed. It just has to be. So yeah, you're not alone. That's all I really got.
- [103:54]
A
You're not alone. Hope you all have a great holiday season. Merry Christmas, all the things and we'll see you in the new year.
- [104:04]
C
Yeah we will. I'm Tim Whitaker.
- [104:06]
A
And I'm April. Ah joy.
- [104:08]
C
See ya.
- [104:09]
B
By.