The Tim & April Show: Episode 74

Inside the NAR: The Christian Zealots Behind the Trump Administration
December 30, 2025

Overview of the Episode

In this episode, hosts Tim Whitaker and April Ajoy take listeners on a deep dive into the New Apostolic Reformation (NAR)—an influential, loosely networked Christian movement. The conversation unpacks NAR’s history, beliefs, explosive growth, and outsized influence in U.S. politics, particularly through its theological underpinnings of dominionism and prophetic guidance that have shaped support for Donald Trump and driven aspects of contemporary Christian nationalism.

Tim and April share personal stories, examine the NAR's infiltration into political spaces (including the White House), and dissect how its supernatural worldview facilitates a uniquely potent brand of theocratic advocacy in America.

1. Defining the NAR and its Roots

[02:26–07:38] Introduction & Context

• The NAR isn't a denomination, but rather a network — a "bubble inside the independent charismatic world" (Tim).
• Tim: “We are talking about a bubble inside of the independent charismatic world, and that's called the new Apostolic Reformation… one of the fastest growing parts of American Christianity and maybe one of the most dangerous.” [06:39]
• Historical Structure:
  • Christianity as a “big house”: Orthodox, Catholic, and Protestant wings.
  • NAR is within independent, charismatic/evangelical Protestantism, not mainline denominations.

Key Beliefs and Why It Matters

• NAR is driven by a literal belief in:
  • Modern-day apostles and prophets with unique, supernatural anointings.
  • Spiritual warfare with physical "strongholds" needing deliverance.
  • A calling to achieve “dominion” not just in churches, but over societies and governments.

2. Foundational Theologies: Dominionism & Spiritual Warfare

[07:51–13:53] The Dominion Mandate and Societal Transformation

• Peter Wagner (NAR architect) introduced the concept of a Dominion Mandate:
  • Peter Wagner: “Dominion has to do with control, with rulership, with authority and subduing... relating to society. ...What the values are in heaven need to be made manifest here on Earth.” [09:11]
• NAR links the Great Commission with the idea of Christians being called to rule cultures and nations—not just win personal converts.
• Supernatural Battles:
  • NAR leaders claim to sense and battle “demonic strongholds” in key locations (abortion clinics, cities with Muslim populations, "the swamp" in D.C.).

Belief System Summary

• Tim: “The kingdom of God is advanced on earth through the church gaining dominion … [it’s led] by apostles aided by prophets … with new revelation and a casual use of the Bible.” [11:55]
• These spiritual authorities believe they can mobilize prayer networks to change history.

3. First-Person Reflections: Growing Up NAR-Adjacent

[13:53–18:49] April’s Experiences & the Culture of Fear

• April: “I genuinely believed all of that too… We were just demon happy in general. Demons were constantly something you had to worry about on a daily basis.”
• Discussion of how “demonic oppression” (as opposed to possession) is a daily concern in these circles—a mentally exhausting mindset.

4. The NAR, Prophecy, and Political Power

The Role of Prophets and the Trump Prophecy

[18:49–26:59] From Theology to Politics

• Many NAR leaders and churches believe in direct, ongoing prophecy—often about national and political matters.
• Kim Clement's "Trump Prophecy": Prophesied in 2007 that “Trump shall become a trumpet… a praying president. …he will bring the walls of protection on this country… [shall serve] two terms.” [22:01]
  • This prophecy, repeatedly cited, undergirded enormous support for Trump and later the “Stop the Steal” movement following the 2020 election.
• April: “That’s how you get the insurrection and them pushing the big lie that the 2020 election was stolen.“

Personal Impact of Prophecy

• Tim: “I had someone tell me when I was younger that God told them we were going to get married. …I believed them, even though I couldn't see it. …It's so easy to see when you’re out, but when you're in it, it's so convincing.” [26:16–26:59]

5. Manipulation of Scripture and the Jezebel Spirit

[29:19–30:44]

• Jezebel "spirit" is often weaponized to silence women or anyone challenging church power structures.
• April: “Jezebel is any woman who inconveniences the church patriarchy. That’s my definition of it, of how they use it.” [30:26]

6. Power in the White House: NAR’s Political Ascent

[30:44–36:29] Paula White and the President

• Paula White, a prosperity preacher and NAR figure, was Trump’s spiritual advisor; she organized key clergy support pre-2016 and mobilized networks for prayer and backing.
• Tim: “The NAR had a massive hand in shifting and shaping how a lot of evangelicals saw Trump because these prophets and apostles gave him the God anointing that then convinced their audiences.” [33:40]

[34:58–36:29] Desperate Prayers for Trump

• Paula White's prayer chant after the 2020 election:
  • Paula White: “Strike and strike and strike and strike until you have victory… For angels are being released right now. Angels are being dispatched right now. … From Africa right now.” [35:54]
• April: “She genuinely believes that she is summoning angels… this chant during the count to try to summon angels to miraculously make the numbers be there for Trump.”

7. Prophetic Claims and Conspiratorial Thinking

[37:47–43:36] Prophecies, Fact Denial, and Goalposts Moving

• Hank Kunneman (NAR prophet) prophesies Trump’s re-election, dismisses news, polls, facts, and later refuses to recant his failed prophecy:
  • Hank: “No, I’m not conceding… God has remembered his covenant with America… regarding the fraudulent election… come back and talk to me in four years… They thought Noah was a fool.” [43:36–46:59]
• NAR leaders never admit error—failed prophecies are rationalized or postponed indefinitely.
  • April: “They don’t say, ‘Oh, I was wrong.’ They just move the goalposts… God must have meant a different time.” [47:12]

8. Modern Manifestations: Today’s NAR Actions

[52:58–61:47] Present-Day Expressions and Contradictions

• NAR-connected clergy now plant churches near key government sites (like D.C.), organizing “prayer assaults” on institutions (“waging spiritual warfare” over the Supreme Court, for example).
• Tim: “These are the folks that are currently going to the White House consistently to pray over the President… declaring D.C. is territory for the kingdom.” [49:12]
• Hypocrisy and Double Standards:
  • NAR leaders rail against “sin” (coded largely as sexual), yet excuse or disbelieve Trump’s well-documented sexual and ethical misconduct.
    • Miles Rutherford sermon: “Satan will change the name of sin to make sin adaptable to accept… Instead of pedophilia, we'll call it minor attracted people... Instead of adultery, call it swinging... Instead of lust, call it love…” [55:44]
  • April response: “He could easily be like, instead of narcissism, we'll call him a man of God.” [57:36]
• Anti-Science Rhetoric:
  • Landon Schott (Mercy Culture, major NAR pastor): Proudly celebrates his school’s low vaccination rates, proof of “freedom.” [59:25]
  • Tim: “They don’t believe in freedom… They believe in tyranny—so long as they set the rules.” [61:22]

9. The NAR in Power—Christian Nationalism in Action

[61:47–65:48] Dominionist Agenda & The Ties that Bind

• Trump, regardless of personal belief, cultivates these relationships and benefits from their support.
• Viral image discussed: Trump with NAR clergy in the White House, including Landon Schott, Paula White, Myles Rutherford.
• Landon Schott’s caption [63:09]: “We worshiped and then prayed for the President… My prayer was simple: I welcomed the Holy Spirit… America belongs to the Lord. …The goal is revival in the church, reformation in our nation, and a great awakening sweeping America again… This isn’t political, it’s spiritual.”
• April: “That type of wording and manipulation is what keeps so many people…supporting Donald Trump. …There is a good side, which is God’s side, and an evil side, which is Satan’s side. And Trump is on God’s side.” [65:28]
• Tim: “They only care about making sure gay people go back in the closet, that no abortions for any reason ever happen in America… and that they’re in charge. …Those are their values. As long as Trump gives them those things, everything is fine.” [65:56]

10. Final Reflections and Take-Aways

[69:12–71:14]

• Tim: “There’s no humility… It’s pure ego, but he doesn’t think it is. Landon thinks he's just being obedient to God. …Landon worships the god of empire, of power, of domination. It's literally the opposite of the incarnation.”
• April: “Take Kim Clement's prophecy… they're basing this whole thing not on anything the Bible actually says. …Some random man said something in 2007, and then more and more are building off of that.”

Memorable Quotes

• Tim: “It's not a grift for a lot of these people. This is a real deep-seated belief system that they really take on as like a true thing about reality.” [02:40]
• April: “I think everyone who is in NAR is MAGA.” [61:47]
• Tim: “Keep it out of my house. Keep it out of my society. Keep it out of my classrooms. Don’t come for my kids with that shit. Don’t tell my kid that if he's gay, he's an abomination to God. Get out of here.” [68:04]

Key Timestamps for Reference

• 02:26–07:38: NAR defined, its position in Christianity
• 09:11–10:57: Peter Wagner’s “Dominion Mandate” explained
• 14:53–16:44: April’s upbringing & demon-based anxiety
• 21:52–23:21: Kim Clement’s Trump prophecy
• 34:58–36:29: Paula White’s “warfare” prayer after 2020 election
• 37:47–40:45: Hank Kunneman prophecy for 2020 election
• 43:36–46:59: Kunneman refuses to recant false prophecy
• 55:44–56:53: Miles Rutherford sermon demonizing “renaming sin”
• 59:25–60:22: Landon Schott celebrates low vaccination rates

Takeaway

The NAR is no fringe movement: it is a powerful and rapidly expanding religious network whose beliefs about modern prophets, supernatural warfare, and Christian dominion have enabled an intimate partnership with American political power under Trump. While it remains a subculture within the larger evangelical spectrum, its influence and theological justifications for Christian nationalism are shaping not just churches, but public life, law, and policy. Ignoring their impact puts American democracy at risk.

For full context, the episode’s critical analysis, authentic testimonies, and direct quotes are best digested in their original tone and energy—listen for the full story behind the soundbites.