78. Accidental Christian Smut? When Sermon Illustrations Go Too Far

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Tim & April Show

Episode 78: “Accidental Christian Smut? When Sermon Illustrations Go Too Far”
Host: Tim Whitaker & April Ajoy
Date: January 13, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this standout (and slightly unhinged) episode, Tim and April revisit one of their wildest and most awkward moments from the previous year: dissecting some unintentionally suggestive language in evangelical worship culture and sermons, particularly relating to purity culture, “dating Jesus,” and a famously cringeworthy Gospel Coalition article by Josh Butler. What starts as light banter evolves into a deep (and sometimes hilarious) exploration of the blurred lines between spiritual intimacy and unintended eroticism in modern Christian culture. The duo offers real talk, relatable stories, memorable quotes, and pointed commentary—while keeping things fun and honest.

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Main Discussion Points & Insights

The “Romance with Jesus” Trope in Evangelical Culture

[03:12] – [06:10]

• Testimony parody: A listener "testifies" to her romantic relationship with Jesus (“The Lord has pursued me so passionately and so intimately this week…”).
• April and Tim discuss how common it is in evangelical spaces to hear worship songs and testimonies with language that blurs spiritual and romantic lines.
  • Memorable “intimate” song lyrics from Christian worship music (e.g., “your love is extravagant… your friendship is intimate… your fragrance is intoxicating…”)
  • April: “I think she’s dating Jesus.” [03:46]
  • Tim admits: “Even back then, I was kind of like, I don’t know if we’re dating or if I’m talking about God.” [05:39]
• Both hosts point out how easy it is to take secular love songs and “turn them into worship,” further blurring boundaries.

Purity Culture’s Impact and “Dating Jesus”

[06:47] – [07:51]

• April and Tim recall evangelical lessons warning teens not to date, framing breakups as “training for divorce,” with the suggested alternative being “dating Jesus.”
  • April: “That was an actual phrase that was told to me.” [06:51]
  • She confesses having broken up with someone in high school using the excuse that “God is jealous of the time I’m spending with you.” [06:59]
• The pair laughs at how normalized it was to frame singleness as time for “romance with God,” and how self-serious (and odd) this rhetoric ended up sounding.

Critique of “Christ Pursuing Me” Narrative

[07:54] – [08:34]

• Tim (reading a Sienna quote): “I would create the entire world over again just to look at you.”
• Tim notes the narcissism in this narrative:
  • “The supreme leader of the universe wants a relationship with me personally. That’s pretty egomaniacal.” [07:36]
  • “At its best, this type of belief lets you be seen and loved… At its worst, it’s like, ‘look how important I am.’” [08:00]

The Josh Butler / Gospel Coalition “Beautiful Union” Article

[09:18] – [33:42]

• April recalls the internet uproar over Josh Butler’s Gospel Coalition article, which used explicit sexual imagery to make spiritual analogies about marriage, salvation, and sex.
  • “It was something like, ‘the Holy Spirit pours out his seed on the church’...” [09:37]
• Both hosts search for the article in real-time, commenting on its content and public response.
  • April: “Oh, gosh… He was comparing that to God’s relationship with the church.” [10:50]

Live Reading and Color Commentary: “Sexual Union Pictures the Gospel”

[13:04] – [32:55]

• April gamely reads lengthy passages from the infamous article, frequently pausing for Tim’s interjections and their mutual cringing.
  • Butler’s metaphors include extended references to generosity, hospitality (“the wife welcomes her husband into the sanctuary of her very self”), “pouring out his presence,” “altar within her most holy place,” and the “generative seed of his word.”
  • Tim: “Oh my God.” [21:00]
    April: “You just can’t pass over that, April. You just can’t keep moving on. Did you just hear what you read?” [21:04]
• Both call out the gender imbalance and problematic logic.
  • Tim: “This is Christian smut… That was a much more fancy way of Mark Driscoll calling women penis homes.” [22:43]
  • April: “That poor girl earlier was like, ‘I just want to thank the romance of God.’” [30:15]

Peak Awkwardness and Satire

[28:49] – [31:05]

• April: “Christ penetrates his church with the generative seed of his word and the life-giving presence of his spirit, which takes root within her and grows to bring new life into the world.” [28:49]
  • Tim: “I might really pass out. I don’t know what to do.” [29:08]
  • April: “This really brings a whole new meaning to that scripture that says, ‘Behold, I come quickly.’”
• The hosts openly acknowledge that this language is both (unintentionally?) erotic and deeply embedded in some Christian teaching:
  • April: “He just said the quiet parts out loud. The language of Jesus being a lover is in the rhetoric… He just said it very explicitly.” [34:07]

Real-life Purity Culture Tales

[15:32] – [16:58]

• April recounts a “sex blanket” tradition where women knit special blankets, prayed over by the family, to be used on their wedding night.
  • “It was almost like a worship night… supposed to have your first time on the blanket.” [15:35]
  • Tim’s genuine horror: “No. And that your mother also sat on at one point?” [16:15]
• Tim references “Pamela’s Prayer,” a Christian movie about extreme purity teachings, as another bizarre cultural artifact. [17:38]

Closing Thoughts

[33:05] – End

• Tim: “It’s all about the guy. This is so misogynistic… as if it’s all about the woman preparing herself for the man’s gratification.” [33:05]
• April points out that the sexualized, romantic rhetoric toward God is widespread, not an outlier.
  • “The language of Jesus being a lover and… a romance with Christ… is in the rhetoric.” [34:07]
• Humorously, both admit that this unplanned, digressive segment became some of their most memorable, hilarious content.

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Notable Quotes

• April (sarcastically on worship lyrics):
  “Spread wide in the arms of Christ… We used to sing that.” [04:47]
• Tim (on the dating Jesus trend):
  “Even back then, I was kind of like, I don’t know if we’re dating, if we’re talking about God, or if I’m singing this to the girl in the front I have a crush on.” [05:39]
• April:
  “That was an actual phrase that was told to me… You really shouldn’t be dating anybody because you’re training to get divorced if you break up. So that we should focus on dating Jesus.” [06:51]
• Tim (on the Butler article):
  “This is Christian smut. That was a much more fancy way of Mark Driscoll calling women penis homes.” [22:43]
• April (reading Butler):
  “Christ penetrates his church with the generative seed of his word and the life giving presence of his spirit which takes root within her and grows to bring new life into the world.” [28:49]
• Tim:
  “I might really pass out. I don’t know what to do.” [29:08]
• April:
  “He just said the quiet parts out loud. But the language of Jesus being a lover… is in the rhetoric.” [34:07]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [03:12] — Sienna’s testimony & the “dating Jesus” language.
• [04:03-05:38] — Discussion of worship lyrics and thin line between romance/love songs and worship.
• [06:51] — April on “dating Jesus” instead of people.
• [09:29 – 10:50] — Introduction to the Josh Butler / Gospel Coalition controversy.
• [13:02 – 32:55] — Live dramatic reading and critique of the Josh Butler article.
• [15:32 – 16:58] — The “sex blanket” purity ritual story.
• [17:38 – 18:15] — “Pamela’s Prayer” reference.
• [28:49 – 29:57] — Climax of Butler excerpt: “Christ penetrates his church...” and hosts’ reactions.
• [31:05 – 31:52] — Discussion on the assumed self-sacrifice of men and women’s experiences in purity culture.
• [34:07] — April on why Butler’s language isn’t as outlandish as it seems.
• [35:05] — Light-hearted wrap-up and exit puns.

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Tone & Language

• Casual, semi-sarcastic, sometimes irreverent, but ultimately caring and honest
• Both hosts approach sensitive topics with both humor and genuine critique—interjecting lived experience and cultural commentary with improv-like banter

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Summary Takeaway

This episode stands out for its unfiltered, funny, and incisive dissection of evangelical Christianity’s sometimes awkward conflation of sex and spirituality. Tim and April deftly expose how purity culture, worship language, and even “sermon illustrations” can veer into territory that’s awkward, exclusionary, or even accidentally explicit—all while inviting both laughter and honest conversation about theological, relational, and gendered implications. Whether you grew up with “dating Jesus,” puzzled over worship song lyrics, or just want solidarity in calling Christian cringe what it is, this episode delivers.

Transcript

[April Ajoy]

You're listening to a new evangelicals production.

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[April Ajoy]

Experian I am your host, Stassi Schroeder. Welcome to Tell Me Lies, the official podcast. What's the most unhinged thing of season three? Steven.

[Tim Whitaker]

Because he's so evil, I do think he is misunderstood.

[Sienna (Guest/Testimony)]

You see everyone face consequences.

[April Ajoy]

It's intoxicating. The writers just know how to trick you.

[Ad Read / Sponsor Voice]

There's always a twist in this show.

[April Ajoy]

It's nothing you would Tell Me Lies the official podcast. Now streaming and stream the new season of Tell Me Lies on Hulu and Hulu on Disney. The Tim and April show, where we unravel faith, politics and culture. Hello, everybody. Welcome to the Tim and April Show. I'm April Ajoy.

[Tim Whitaker]

I'm Tim Whitaker.

[April Ajoy]

And we went live twice last week and so we thought for this week we would give everyone just a little bit of a breather, including ourselves, and share with you one of our favorite moments of 2025. That was. That was impromptu. It was not planned. We.

[Tim Whitaker]

We didn't give any context.

[April Ajoy]

I don't know, do we? I think it started because we watched a weird Christian beef about. It was something. Purity culture.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah. Something to do with sex and church and purity.

[April Ajoy]

Yeah. Well, we should just include that in this piece. And then it. It totally derailed the conversation and we ended up reading an entire article about.

[Tim Whitaker]

An excerpt from a book.

[April Ajoy]

Yeah, it was so awkward.

[Tim Whitaker]

We'll let the words be for themselves.

[April Ajoy]

Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, we just want to do a little intro here that if. If you feel like you're going crazy, like you've seen this before, you have. But if you're new to our channel, you probably haven seen this, cuz this happened pretty early on.

[Ad Read / Sponsor Voice]

Buckle up.

[April Ajoy]

Yeah, just buckle. Buckle up.

[Tim Whitaker]

That's all I can say.

[April Ajoy]

Yes. So without further ado, one of our weirder, wilder, Funnier moments of 2025, we'll.

[Tim Whitaker]

See you live on Thursday at 12. Enj. Weird Christian. Here we go. Buckle up.

[Sienna (Guest/Testimony)]

I just want to Testify to how much of a romance a relationship with Jesus Christ is. The Lord has pursued me so passionately and so intimately this week, and I was struggling with the lie that I was not chosen. And the Lord spoke to me in prayer. He said, sienna, I would create the entire world over again just to look at you. So I just want to give a great shout out to the Lord for being such a lover of our souls.

[April Ajoy]

I think she's dating Jesus.

[Tim Whitaker]

She used the word intimate.

[April Ajoy]

Okay. But there are worship songs that also use that. Do you remember that one song that was like, your love is extravagant.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah.

[April Ajoy]

You're something. Oh, it's intimate.

[Tim Whitaker]

I'm not going to play it because we always get flagged on this channel. Whenever we play any kind of music, we get demonetized. So I'm not playing any songs. But, yes, there's also a sacred romance. Is that. Is that what it's called? Is that Phil Wickham?

[April Ajoy]

I don't know. Oh. To be fair. Okay, here. Here's the lyrics, right? Your love is extravagant. Your friendship is intimate. So at least I said friendship, but it's intimate. What is this? I feel like moving to the rhythm of your grace. Your fragrance is intoxicating. In our secret place.

[Tim Whitaker]

Oh, God.

[April Ajoy]

And the chorus is spread wide in the arms of Christ.

[Tim Whitaker]

No, stop.

[April Ajoy]

Yes. We used to sing that goes Spread wide in the arms of Christ.

[Tim Whitaker]

You're right.

[April Ajoy]

You're right.

[Tim Whitaker]

I would play the job that I would play the. The zhenbei because it was like a real kind of acoustic song. I remember that song.

[April Ajoy]

Oh, yeah, we used to. We jammed out to this, and youth group came out is by casting crowns, 2003.

[Tim Whitaker]

I was thinking of Divine Romance by Phil Wickham. Lyrics are for you. I sing, I dance. Rejoice in this divine romance Lift my heart and my hands to show my love A deep, deep flood an ocean flows from you of deep, deep love. Yeah, it's filling up the room. So, yeah, I will say, like, yeah, I played a lot of these songs.

[April Ajoy]

And they know.

[Tim Whitaker]

Even back then, I was kind of like, I don't know if we're dating, if we're talking about God or, like, if I'm. If I'm singing this to the girl in the front that I have a crush on, like, it's kind of hard to know.

[April Ajoy]

Well, there's so many times, too, that we've taken, like, a secular song, and you can easily turn it into a worship song or vice versa. You could take a worship song, change God to babe or girl or Whatever. And then it's. It's a romance. Like it. The. The line is very thin. That is a very, very fine line.

[Tim Whitaker]

Well, yeah, we had another.

[April Ajoy]

We have.

[Tim Whitaker]

We got two.

[April Ajoy]

Debbie, Debbie. Thank you. Debbie says thank. Thanks for all you and April are doing. Thank you.

[Tim Whitaker]

Thank you, Debbie. And then Jamie. Oh, am I reading this one?

[April Ajoy]

Oh, sorry. Yeah, sorry, I thought you got it.

[Tim Whitaker]

Jamie says, I really don't want another war in the Middle East. I am scared for my children who could be drafted if it goes wrong. Feel that. We feel that for sure.

[April Ajoy]

Yeah.

[Tim Whitaker]

Can we just play the beginning of this one more time? I want folks to hear this.

[Sienna (Guest/Testimony)]

I just want to testify to how much of a romance a relationship with Jesus Christ is.

[Tim Whitaker]

What does that mean?

[April Ajoy]

Romance? Yeah.

[Tim Whitaker]

What does that mean?

[April Ajoy]

I mean, I don't.

[Tim Whitaker]

I don't want to know.

[April Ajoy]

I've legit been in youth group services where they were talking mainly to the girls, but to everybody of like, you really shouldn't be dating anybody because you're. You're training to get divorced if you break up. So that we should be focusing on dating Jesus. That was an actual phrase that was told to me right now, for sure. And the amount of times, too, that you would break up with somebody. And I've done this, I'm ashamed to say, but I've broken up with somebody to say, you know what? God has been jealous of the time that I've been spending with you because we're taught, like, God is a jealous God and I need to focus on my relationship with God because you've become a distraction to my relationship with God. That's common. It's common in evangelical culture.

[Tim Whitaker]

Olivia. Super chat. The supreme leader of the universe wants a relationship with me personally. That's pretty egomaniac. Egomaniacal. Yes. I did think about that, too. I thought about. Oh, and thank you, Stevie, for the super chat. I appreciate that. I thought about how she says this right here.

[Sienna (Guest/Testimony)]

I would create the entire world over again just to look at you.

[Tim Whitaker]

That.

[April Ajoy]

I mean, to look at you.

[Tim Whitaker]

Okay, look, if I'm being charitable, okay, I think that at its best, this type of belief is. Lets you be seen and loved, right? Like, oh, someone values me deeply.

[Ad Read / Sponsor Voice]

At.

[Tim Whitaker]

At its worst, though, it's like, look how important I am. Where you all wouldn't exist, but God would still make the world over again just so he could look at me. And I'm like, I do. Do you hear yourself? It's like, talk about, like, arrogant, prideful, ego. Ego. Maniacal. It's just like that's intense, dude. That's intense.

[April Ajoy]

I know. Well, there's that other song, too. That's like, Jesus, lover of my soul.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah. Jesus never let me go. There's also this song by Bethel called. It was an old one, actually. It was early Jesus culture and. And what's it called? The Adventure or something. I'm not playing it. We're not gonna get demonetized. I refuse. But it was, you know, all about, oh, come Away with me, Come away with me. It's gonna be wild. Remember that song? Come. I can't sing. I can't sing to save my soul, so I'm not gonna try and sing. But if someone looks that song up, you'll hear it. But also very romantic. Very, you know, like, we're gonna go on a grand adventure. It's gonna be wild. It's gonna be grand.

[April Ajoy]

I just thought about. Do you remember, it was a couple years ago, the. God. I think it was the Gospel Coalition released an article, don't do it with Josh Butler. Yes.

[Tim Whitaker]

No, no. Yes, I do. Oh, my God, it's so gross.

[April Ajoy]

Hold on. I gotta see if I could find it, because they were.

[Tim Whitaker]

All right. While you do that, I'll preface it. Josh Butler was right, by the way. He wrote a really good book called the Skeletons in God's Closet. And then he kind of went off, in my opinion, like, the deep end. I. Alvin Alden is in the chat. No, he knows Alden. You know, what we're talking about. So I think he had a book coming out about, like, sex and God and, like, how the. How. How did he phrase it? We got to find it something, like, to the effect of, like, the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit, like, pours out his seed on the church, and it was just like. It was so cringy.

[April Ajoy]

It was like. It was like the first chapter of his new book that was coming out to see. Is it still out? They took it down everywhere, Stevie says.

[Tim Whitaker]

A super chat. Thanks, Stevie. I really want to start seeing us fight back against the support Israel argument by using the accountability partner logic. I love that. That's so good. No, I know. I did a video on it on my Instagram a long time ago.

[April Ajoy]

I did a video, too, of it. Oh, my gosh.

[Tim Whitaker]

About.

[April Ajoy]

Where was it?

[Tim Whitaker]

Oh, is it called sex? No, no, that's Rob Bell's sex God. What was it called? Beautiful Union. It was called Beautiful Union. It's actually out. It was still released.

[April Ajoy]

Oh, gosh. I know that he said something like, when a man puts his seed into his wife, yes. He brings it not only upon, but within his. In. In her. And that's like how God. It's like he was comparing that to God's relationship to the church.

[Tim Whitaker]

Okay, I found it. I found something on it called Clearly Reformed. I'm trying to find the actual article, though.

[April Ajoy]

I know. I'm. Where's the archive? I know someone archived it, like a.

[Tim Whitaker]

Wayback Machine or something.

[April Ajoy]

Yeah, I know. I. I thought about this in real time, so I didn't have time to.

[Tim Whitaker]

Look, we're gonna roll with this for a minute because I. We. We finished our episode real early. We have, like. We have a few minutes. Oh, wait. Okay. Is this it? I found it.

[April Ajoy]

You found it?

[Tim Whitaker]

Wait, wait, did you. No, this is his resignation.

[April Ajoy]

Oh, gosh. Okay. I'm trying. I found a bunch of articles about it, but I wanna. I want the quotes. I wanna read the quotes.

[Tim Whitaker]

I need Alden. I need Alden to help me.

[April Ajoy]

They were so bad. I know. You gave them all the day off because it's due teeth.

[Tim Whitaker]

I know. Dang it.

[April Ajoy]

I've gotten used to use.

[Tim Whitaker]

I should have been more like Charlie Kirk. It made them all work. Work harder.

[April Ajoy]

Okay, okay, hold on. Ah, we should edit this part out for the podcast.

[Tim Whitaker]

No, this is fun.

[April Ajoy]

They'll be annoyed. I can already see right now. Get to the point, everybody.

[Tim Whitaker]

Wait, hold on. I'm in the way that. I'm in the Wayback Machine trying to look back and find this. Give me a second. It's searching. It's doing its thing. It's spinning.

[April Ajoy]

Spin, baby. Spin, baby.

[Tim Whitaker]

Oh, it is such a painful article. Okay, I'm frozen here. I'm froze. I'll pull my screen up so folks can see it.

[April Ajoy]

Oh, here's one where he said, quote, a condom.

[Tim Whitaker]

I got it. I got it. I got it. Okay, okay, okay, okay.

[April Ajoy]

Hey, wait. Send me the link. Put the link in the. In the chat so I can read it along with you.

[Tim Whitaker]

Okay. Do we just read the whole thing? It's.

[April Ajoy]

I don't know. Should we.

[Tim Whitaker]

You. You should read it in. In your voice because you have a great. Your voice is great and you have a great reading voice. So pull this thing up. I send it to you. Where is. Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah.

[April Ajoy]

So bad.

[Tim Whitaker]

Sexual union Pictures. The gospel. Oh, goodness.

[April Ajoy]

Sex save you. But it points to the one who Will is the title of this article.

[Tim Whitaker]

Thank God.

[April Ajoy]

Read this whole thing because it is long.

[Tim Whitaker]

Is it long? It's like, I'd say no. This is like a five minute read. I think it's worth it.

[April Ajoy]

Okay, fine. He says, I used to look to sex. Can we pull up a picture of Josh Butler, too?

[Tim Whitaker]

Yes, I will do that.

[April Ajoy]

Just so we can see who's saying this. Okay. I used to look to sex for salvation. I wanted it to liberate me from loneliness. I wanted to find freedom in the arms of another. But the search failed. My college sweetheart dumped me. I found a rebound to feel better about myself and hurt her in the process. I then fell head over heels for the girl of my dreams at the time and spent the next five years pining after this friend who didn't feel the same. I wanted to feel wanted, yet I wound up alone. Our culture looks to sex for salvation, too. We want romance to free us from solitary confinement, to deliver us into a welcome embrace. But idolizing sex results in slavery. Huh? You can chart up your long list of ex lovers and join Taylor Swift in telling the newest applicant, I've got a blank space, baby. And I'll write your name. Ew. How dare you quote Taylor Swift.

[Tim Whitaker]

How dare you? By the way, that's the picture of Josh.

[April Ajoy]

That is Josh. Yes. Yeah, okay, yes.

[Tim Whitaker]

Back to the article.

[April Ajoy]

Back to the article. You can end up in the Egypt of a new romantic wasteland, more cynical and isolated than when you first began. Yet I've discovered a crucial corrective in the gospel that can lead us out into true freedom. Sex wasn't designed to be your salvation, but to point you to the one who is.

[Tim Whitaker]

I just want to say I've never thought about sex as salvation. Like.

[April Ajoy]

No, I have never thought about it that way either.

[Tim Whitaker]

Continue on.

[April Ajoy]

And honestly, I don't like thinking about God while having sex.

[Tim Whitaker]

No, I. I don't.

[April Ajoy]

If I'm being honest, that's not the forefront.

[Tim Whitaker]

I'm not imagining Jesus in the room with us. Not really my thing. I mean, listen, we don't kink shame on this podcast, but it's not for me. I'll put it that way. It's not for me.

[April Ajoy]

Yeah, well, you know, there are people who literally. Oh, gosh, I've got so many stories on this. I know. We're so over time, April, How.

[Tim Whitaker]

No, you have to say it now. We're in. We're in. We're in.

[April Ajoy]

Okay. I knew of a girl, and I will not say her name.

[Tim Whitaker]

Thank you.

[April Ajoy]

Where it was like a family tradition for all the women in her family. Aunts, grandmas, parents. They would knit together what they would. I don't know if they called it this, but everyone else started calling it this. A sex blanket. A homemade sex blanket that they would lay down. It was prayed over by the moms and the aunts and the grandmas to have a great sexual experience where it was almost like a worship night. Shoots to bless their sex life. And they were supposed to, like, you lay it down and you're supposed to have your first time on the blanket.

[Tim Whitaker]

No.

[April Ajoy]

By your mom.

[Tim Whitaker]

No. And that your mother also sat on at one point.

[April Ajoy]

And they made new ones for each one, as far as I'm concerned.

[Tim Whitaker]

So they were like, adding on to it.

[April Ajoy]

Well, dude, I don't know though. Now that you say that that was not clarified in the. In the story. I would say Beecher was at this wedding where they did this whole presentation. The gift, the blanket to the. I think it was at the rehearsal dinner.

[Tim Whitaker]

Wow.

[April Ajoy]

I need Beecher to come up and tell this story because I'm probably getting my details wrong. But that's like a thing. It was a thing. There's weird stuff about and, like, couples are taught to pray to welcome God. Like, Jesus, be with us as we have sex.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yes. Yes. Melanie, super chat. Thank you so much. This is the content I'm here for. I'm so glad, Melanie. And we got one more too. From Felipe. Yes, from Felipe. Hi. From Quebec. A true secular region. You offer wonderful access to the fascinating world. That's one way of putting it. Of evangelicalism and Christian nationalists. Best duo. Thank you so much. Hold on. Okay, I. We're over time, but whatever. We're in the zone. We have to go for it.

[April Ajoy]

Teacher clarified. It was a new blanket for each first.

[Tim Whitaker]

Thank God. I almost really had a panic attack. Like, you've got to be shitting me. Have you ever seen the movie Pamela's Prayer?

[April Ajoy]

I've only. I've seen clips.

[Tim Whitaker]

That is a doozy. And all I'll say is that one of the main premises in the movie is that Pamela saves her. Even her first kiss until her wedding day. But a big theme is that as Pamela's growing up, her father, which is. Which is Father. They don't use Pam or Dad or Fred. It's Pamela, dad, Father, and Frederick. And so every night, Father prays to Pamela before they go to bed. And then the last scene of the movie is after Pamela gets married to Frederick and she's in the room for her wedding night, she calls her father to pray with her one last time.

[April Ajoy]

Oh. Oh.

[Tim Whitaker]

Anyway, back to our article at hand.

[April Ajoy]

Yeah, like, we just do an episode of just cringy purity culture. Things that we have witnessed or participated in.

[Tim Whitaker]

And it should be called TNA After Dark.

[April Ajoy]

Let's go live one night. Just share cringy purity stories.

[Tim Whitaker]

We can watch Pamela's Prayer because It's out on YouTube royalty free, so we could stream it and not get dinged. It's an option.

[April Ajoy]

Let's do that one time.

[Tim Whitaker]

Back to the article. Here we go.

[April Ajoy]

All right.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah, sorry.

[April Ajoy]

Union with Christ. Okay. Sex is an icon of Christ and the church. In Ephesians 5, 31, 32, a Hall of Fame marriage passage, the apostle Paul proclaims, for this reason, a man will leave his father and mother and cleave to his wife, and the two will become one flesh. This is a profound mystery, but I am talking about Christ and the church. Niv, I've translated proscolau as cleave. I think that's how you say that. Now. The context here is marriage leave and cleave is marriage language. And the surrounding verses are all about husbands and wives, not hookup culture. Yet that second part about the two becoming one flesh is consummation language that refers to the union of husband and wife. Paul says both are about Christ and the church. This should be shocking. It's not only the giving of your vows at the altar, but what happens in the honeymoon suite afterward that speaks to the life you were made for with God. A husband and wife's life of faithful love is designed to point to greater things, but so is their sexual union. This is a gospel bombshell. Sex is an icon of salvation. How? I'd suggest the language of generosity and hospitality can help us out. Wow.

[Tim Whitaker]

Buckle up, friends. Here we go. Yeah. I need more blueberry coffee.

[April Ajoy]

This is where it gets real cringe. Yeah, if it wasn't already. Generosity and hospitality are both embodied in the sexual act. You know, to be fair, I'm glad that he's talking about giving. There's too many men that just.

[Tim Whitaker]

That's true.

[April Ajoy]

Think about it.

[Tim Whitaker]

Generosity involves God loves a cheerful giver.

[April Ajoy]

Generosity involves extravagantly or giving extravagantly to someone. You give the best you've got to give lavishly, pouring out your time, energy or money. At a deeper level, generosity is giving not just your resources, but your very self. And what deeper form of self giving is there than sexual union, where the husband pours out his very presence not only upon, but within his wife.

[Tim Whitaker]

Oh, my God.

[April Ajoy]

Hospitality, on the other hand.

[Tim Whitaker]

Wait, you just can't pass over that, April. You just can't keep moving on. Did you just hear what you read?

[April Ajoy]

I did. I did. I did hear it. I heard it very clear.

[Tim Whitaker]

Okay, go ahead. Keep going.

[April Ajoy]

Also the fact that he's making sex and a husband getting off as some sort of self sacrifice has. Have you met men?

[Tim Whitaker]

As a man, I will tell you, it could take a lot of work. Sometimes it's a self sacrifice. You got to work up to it.

[April Ajoy]

That's a self sacrifice. Okay.

[Tim Whitaker]

There's no pleasure involved. It does not feel good. It is just hard, straight up work.

[April Ajoy]

No. No selfish reasons whatsoever.

[Tim Whitaker]

No, no. Zero.

[April Ajoy]

You get nothing out of it.

[Tim Whitaker]

Nothing. Nothing at all? Nope.

[April Ajoy]

Wow.

[Tim Whitaker]

Not a thing.

[April Ajoy]

Okay. Hospitality, on the other hand, involves receiving the life of the other. You prepare a space for the guests to enter your home, welcoming him warmly into your circle of intimacy to share your dwelling place with you. Here again, what deeper form of hospitality is there than sexual union? Where the wife. Where the wife welcomes her husband into the sanctuary of her very self. Giving and receiving are at the heart of sex. I take it back. The giving was not for the woman.

[Tim Whitaker]

No, no, no. Well, it was. It was for you. It just didn't, you know, it didn't really. It didn't benefit you a whole lot.

[April Ajoy]

This is like Christian smut. This is. This is. That was a much more like fancy way of Mark Driscoll calling women penis homes.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yes. Or when Doug.

[April Ajoy]

Josh Butler said sanctuary.

[Tim Whitaker]

Or when Doug Wilson says that a man is. Is supposed to penetrate and a woman receive. I mean, it's the same logic. I'm sorry. I mean, it's just not as crass, but it's this. I know. I feel like I have to take a shower saying that. But.

[April Ajoy]

Welcome. Welcome to my home.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yes. Your warm, intimate home. I'm. I'm sorry. Too far. Too far.

[April Ajoy]

Oh, okay. Okay. Giving and receiving are at the heart of sex. Both of those were one direction.

[Tim Whitaker]

Totally.

[April Ajoy]

The idea that the man was the one doing the giving in this scenario, I mean.

[Tim Whitaker]

Well, no, no, it's self giving. It's self giving. You know, it's like self sacrifice. Yeah.

[April Ajoy]

Okay. Obviously a man and woman both give to each other and receive from each other in the sexual act. Sex is mutual, self giving. Yet on closer inspection, there's a distinction between the male and female sides of the equation. Yeah. One has orgasms at a far higher rate.

[Tim Whitaker]

Women. Right, Women. Isn't women used? I'm sorry, I'll stop. I'll stop.

[April Ajoy]

I was never once taught about female pleasure. In all of my purity, culture and marriage conferences I went to, it was all about the wife pleasing the husband.

[Tim Whitaker]

You know, honestly, real talk. Same. Now that I think about it, there was no There was no talk about that.

[April Ajoy]

Did you see it?

[Tim Whitaker]

You saw. I know I put it up earlier.

[April Ajoy]

My spouse. I missed it because I was reading. Cringe. Beecher said, looking forward to April's hospitality dinner. Welcome. Welcome home, babe. I will say we do. We mutually give and receive and.

[Tim Whitaker]

Same. Same.

[April Ajoy]

Yeah, same. Mutual orgasm is very important, honestly.

[Tim Whitaker]

For real. I mean, not to whatever, but like. And this. Sarah and I, we. We're very open about this, but like, we always, like, have a debrief afterwards. Like, how was that for you? How was that for you? What can I do better? We've always been that way. I don't know. It's just like weird not to have that conversation of like, you know, were you taking care of. Do you feel good? I don't know. Just normal for me.

[April Ajoy]

This. Honestly, this whole section should just be a separate video cuz we've totally digressed from our usual show. This is TNA after dark. Even though it really is 1:30 on a.

[Tim Whitaker]

All right, we're almost done.

[April Ajoy]

Thursday. Oh, God. Okay, Okay. The Bible makes this distinction explicit. Stop saying that. The most frequent Hebrew phrase for sex is literally he went into her. Translations often soften this for modern ears, saying he made love to her or they slept together. But the Bible is less prudish than we are, using more graphic language to describe what happens in the honeymoon tent. One Sunday morning, I learned how graphic this language can be. My friend Karen was publicly reading scripture for a church service and we recently switched to a more literal Bible translation. We were in Genesis 29 where Jacob marries Leah and Rachel. Polygamy.

[Tim Whitaker]

Biblical marriage.

[April Ajoy]

Biblical marriage. And the phrase shows up. We discovered a lot, which is he went into her. By the way, Karen has, you might say, a rated G personality. Very prim, proper and polite. We all saw her cheeks turn bright red with a lot of awkward pauses as she had to continually read the phrase. And Jacob went into her over and over again. After that Sunday, we went back to a less wooden translation and laughed a lot with poor Karen.

[Tim Whitaker]

Hilarious. This is. This is a comedian over here.

[April Ajoy]

Yeah, he went into her. So. So ex rated sexual union pictures the Gospel. The Hebrew language is onto something. However, there's a distinction between the male and female roles in sexual union. Each brings something unique to the fusing of two bodies as one. And this distinction is iconic on that honeymoon in Cabo. The groom goes into his bride. He is not only with his beloved, but within his beloved. He enters the sanctuary of his spouse, where he pours out his deepest presence and bestows an offering A gift. A sign of his pilgrimage that has the potential to grow within her.

[Tim Whitaker]

He cannot. What editor read this and goes, this is great post.

[April Ajoy]

Oh, my gosh. His deepest present.

[Tim Whitaker]

Is it really offering? Is it. What does it cost him? What does it cost him?

[April Ajoy]

A gift. Golly. Can he wrap the gift?

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah, can you wrap the gift?

[April Ajoy]

Oh, my gosh. I guess I'll have to thank Beecher later. Thank you for your pilgrimage.

[Ad Read / Sponsor Voice]

Yeah.

[Tim Whitaker]

Thank you for your gift. Thank you so much.

[April Ajoy]

Wow. This is a deep gift of offering. Okay. But you know what, though? This is a picture of the gospel. Christ arrived in salvation to be not only with his church, but within his church. Christ gives himself to his beloved with extravagant generosity. Showering. Showering his love upon us and imparting his very presence within us. Okay, okay, I gotta take a beat. I gotta take a breath for this next sentence.

[Tim Whitaker]

Sorry.

[April Ajoy]

Christ penetrates his church with the generative seed of his word and the life giving presence of his spirit which takes root within her and grows to bring new life into the world.

[Tim Whitaker]

I might really pass out. I don't know what. I don't know what to do.

[April Ajoy]

This really brings a whole new meaning to that. So scripture that says, behold, I come quickly. You know what's really. Like, how does church. I. There are so many times where the church accidentally says things that are sexual. You know, like there's so many. That's what she said. Moments within the church. But this guy is like, yeah, yeah. No, it is sex 100%. Like, he's saying showering penetrates. Like he's using those words intentionally to elicit a. Like a visual idea of sex in our minds and.

[Tim Whitaker]

And, you know, bodily fluids showering people. I mean, it's. I'm just saying, like showering his love upon us. I mean, that could make it into any. Any fairy smut book. That could easily make it in and be a. Okay with the audience. Yeah, it's just. It's in there.

[April Ajoy]

And I wonder. That poor girl earlier was like, I just want to think the romance of God.

[Tim Whitaker]

You have two paragraphs left and you're done.

[April Ajoy]

Okay. All right, we'll continue inversely. Back in the wedding suite, the bride embraces her most intimate guest.

[Tim Whitaker]

You can do it.

[April Ajoy]

Her most intimate guest on the threshold of her dwelling place and welcomes him into the sanctuary of her very self. She gladly receives the warmth of his presence and accepts the sacrificial offering he bestows upon the altar within her most holy place.

[Tim Whitaker]

The chat GPT Write this to satire. I just have to know. Okay, I. I think one comment. I'm a man, and there's a lot of different ways to describe a man giving himself to his partner. The word sacrifice or sacrificially does not come up. There is nothing superficial about the male orgasm. Like, I'm so sorry. There is nothing going on there.

[April Ajoy]

There's a reason why. It's well known that a lot, a lot of women fake their orgasms. To me, that's the sacrifice that is sacrificial. Giving, you know, makes a man feel more important than he probably is in the situation. You don't ever hear of men faking their orgasms?

[Tim Whitaker]

No.

[April Ajoy]

That I'm aware of. I've never personally heard of that.

[Tim Whitaker]

No.

[April Ajoy]

For those asking, where is this. This is Gospel Coalition article. It's an old article from a year or two ago that has since been deleted. But it's an excerpt and I don't know if it was edited before it was published, but it's an excerpt from a book from Josh Butler called A Beautiful Union.

[Tim Whitaker]

Here's the final paragraph. Friends, we're almost home free.

[April Ajoy]

Oh, God. Okay. Similarly, the church embraces Christ in salvation, celebrating his arrival with joy and delight. She has prepared and made herself ready, anticipating his advent in eager anticipation, she welcomes him into the most vulnerable place of her being, lavishing herself upon him with extravagant hospitality. She receives his generous, generous, generous gift within her, the seed of his word and presence of his spirit, partnering with him to bring children of God into the world. Their union brings forth new creation.

[Tim Whitaker]

Can I say thank you for your sacrifice to read that article. You sacrificed a lot there.

[April Ajoy]

Thank you so much. You're very welcome.

[Tim Whitaker]

She has prepared and made herself ready, anticipating his advent in eager. It's like, all about the guy. This is just like. This is so misogynistic. Like, as if it's all about the woman preparing herself for the man's gratification. It's. Oh, God. So, yeah, there's a reason why you can see now, friends, that they deleted this article because, well, yeah, they issued an apology. So when you click the link now, it just says that he resigned from his position as. As a Keller center fellow and they asked for forgiveness.

[April Ajoy]

They. I think they also said too, that the article lacked sufficient context to be helpful in this format. Because I do think it was an excerpt from the book. I don't know what context makes that not cringy.

[Tim Whitaker]

Af1 Right at the end he says, LOL. JK. Can you believe we used to believe that shit? That would make it better in context.

[April Ajoy]

Right? The thing is, though, like, he just said it. He just said the quiet parts out loud. But the language of Jesus being a lover and, like, having this kind of romance with Christ, like, as the church is like, it's in the rhetoric. It's part of. It's not far fetched. He just said it very explicitly.

[Tim Whitaker]

What a dive this weird Christian shit segment took.

[April Ajoy]

I know. Sorry. I totally took us on a tangent.

[Tim Whitaker]

No, I'm happy. It was. I think it was great. We had to have it. I cannot believe we read that entire article.

[April Ajoy]

It was not planned. I was not planned at all.

[Tim Whitaker]

No, it was not.

[April Ajoy]

We actually made really good time.

[Tim Whitaker]

I know. I was like, wow. Hour and 13. We're gonna be out of here in 10 minutes. It's a half hour later. Oh, my gosh. Well, I don't know. Should we wrap it up? No pun intended.

[April Ajoy]

Oh, my gosh. Yeah, I think we should pull out of this live.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah, I agree with you, friends. Thanks for being here. Have a great week, friends. We'll talk to you all next Thursday. See ya.

[April Ajoy]

Bye.

[Tim Whitaker]

Wrap it up.

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