Podcast Summary: The Tim & April Show - Episode 80: How Teens Get Indoctrinated into Christian Nationalism

Host: The New Evangelicals (Tim Whitaker & April Ajoy)
Date: January 20, 2026

Episode Overview

This episode unpacks how Christian Nationalism is subtly introduced and reinforced among evangelical youth, especially through massive events like the Passion Conference. Tim and April draw from personal experiences, recent conference footage, and public interviews with key Christian leaders to illustrate the mechanisms and rhetoric that funnel young Christians from positive, community-driven experiences into an ideology deeply intertwined with right-wing politics and exclusionary theology. The discussion also critically engages with responses from prominent Christian leaders, including Cliff Knechtel, and their connections to political figures such as Tucker Carlson and Charlie Kirk.

Key Segments and Timestamps

1. [00:00–09:43] Introduction: Youth Conferences as Gateways
2. [09:43 - 17:59] Examining Passion Conference Rhetoric – Subtle Christian Nationalism
3. [19:31 - 23:39] Digging Deeper: Cliff Knechtel on Tucker Carlson
4. [23:43 - 44:31] Apologetics, Relativism, and LGBTQ Discussion
5. [47:25 - 61:19] Power, Policy, and the Charlie Kirk Connection
6. [54:09 - 61:19] Defining Christian Nationalism & The Pipeline
7. [61:19 - End] Reflections & Call to Awareness

Detailed Breakdown & Highlights

1. Youth Conferences as Gateways

[00:00–09:43]

• Evangelical Conferences as Indoctrination Pipelines:
  April recounts experiences at large-scale youth gatherings (like Passion and Acquire the Fire), highlighting how emotionally charged worship, group belonging, and altar calls create powerful formative moments.
  • “You leave so empowered, like, you feel like you’re on cloud nine...those chills that you feel...that’s God. And so you take that as proof that...everything...is from God.” (A, 01:23)
• The Trojan Horse Effect:
  Tim explains how the cool, modern image of these events belies a conservative, fundamentalist theological agenda.
  • “It looks like this really cool, modern, almost progressive kind of vibe…but it’s a Trojan horse to get people into fundamentalist Christian evangelicalism that tells them...if they don’t witness...their friends are going to burn in hell forever.” (B, 03:30)
• Peer Pressure and Emotional Manipulation:
  April and Tim describe the intense social pressure to conform and ‘go all-in’ at these rallies.
  • “[There is] immense peer pressure to go all in and give your life for this purpose and this mission.” (A, 07:28)

2. Examining Passion Conference Rhetoric – Subtle Christian Nationalism

[09:43–17:59]

• Introducing Cliff Knechtel:
  • Senior Pastor, apologetics-focused, often debates on elite campuses, positioned as more theological than political.
• Sample Clip from Passion Conference:
  Knechtel appears to be “above the fray,” focusing on the “Kingdom of God” rather than partisan politics, but strongly encourages voting with a biblical worldview on hot-button issues (“immigration, abortion, LGBTQ”).
  • Cliff Knechtel: “If you read the Bible and adopt a Christ centered worldview on all those issues, you’ll know how to vote. Please vote.” (C, 14:07)
• Decoding the Subtleties:
  April notes how everyone in the room understands these “biblical” positions mean the conservative agenda, even when not stated outright.
  • “He didn’t say which way was the biblical worldview. But everybody in that room knows exactly what he means.” (A, 15:20)
• Christianization of Party Politics:
  Tim expands on how kids are taught the only “real Christian” positions are right-wing ones (pro-life, anti-LGBTQ, anti-Democrat).
  • “If every student in that room asked their youth pastor what the Bible says about abortion, LGBTQ people, immigration, they would all give right wing talking points.” (B, 15:36)

3. Digging Deeper: Cliff Knechtel on Tucker Carlson

[19:31 - 23:39]

• Google Search Exposes Connections:
  April recounts a simple search turning up Knechtel on Tucker Carlson’s show—a clear indicator of the ideological nexus.
  • “Guess who interviewed him? ...Tucker Carlson.” (A, 23:14)

4. Apologetics, Relativism, and LGBTQ Discussion

[23:43 - 44:31]

• Absolute Truth vs. Moral Relativism:
  Cliff advances classic apologetics: “truth is truth,” and relativism is seen as destructive.
  • Cliff Knechtel: “Unfortunately, that whole idea of relativism...has a stranglehold on more and more people’s lives.” (C, 24:22)
  • Tim rebuts: “Truth in the sense of theological or religious truth is incredibly subjective... Look at human history and the thousands of religious ideas...” (B, 25:42)
• Morality Originates from Their God:
  April critiques the logic that only their God provides ‘real’ morality, which allows for the exclusion or dismissal of others.
  • “Which is why they can easily dismiss anybody who doesn’t believe what they believe.” (A, 26:40)
• Trans Identity and Misrepresentation:
  Cliff frames trans identity as denying God and embracing nihilistic hedonism.
  • “So he right there is assuming that every single trans person is an atheist. Which is just factually not true.” (A, 28:18)
• Conflation of Gender/Sex & Straw Manning Opposing Views:
  Tim: “We’re not talking about sex. It’s about gender... But again, in Cliff’s world, it’s one and the same.” (B, 28:44)
• LGBTQ Celibacy Double Standard:
  Cliff suggests both gay and straight persons must ‘fight their flesh,’ drawing a false equivalency.
  • Cliff Knechtel: “I have to exercise self control, make a commitment to just one woman... That’s marriage.” (C, 40:42)
  • April rebuts: “What they’re saying to gay people [is], you just need to completely ignore who you are, ignore your natural desires... We’re the same. That is not the same.” (A, 42:26)

5. Power, Policy, and the Charlie Kirk Connection

[47:25 - 61:19]

• Christianity and Political Power:
  Cliff praises Charlie Kirk, denying he’s a Christian nationalist, while affirming making America “more serious about following Christ” in policies.
  • Cliff Knechtel: “We better get off our backsides and help make this country more serious about following Christ in our policies…” (C, 48:59)
• Contradictions Exposed:
  Tim highlights the blatant disconnect: Charlie Kirk routinely made Christian nationalist and dehumanizing statements, yet is held up as a paragon.
  • “Charlie Kirk has said some of the most dehumanizing stuff about queer people that you can imagine… And Cliff thinks that Charlie’s organization … is somehow advocating for Christian ideals here, the teachings of Christ. I do not understand it.” (B, 51:41)
• Manipulation or Sincere Belief?
  April speculates whether leaders like Cliff are intentionally deceptive or sincerely convinced their ideology is “God’s agenda.”
  • “There are a lot of people who have convinced themselves that God's view and the biblical worldview is the conservative agenda... you can sleep well at night because you still think you’re doing the right thing, despite the huge amounts of harm…” (A, 52:50)
• Pipeline from Worship Event to Alt-Right Content:
  Tim explains how innocuous Christian content leads down a YouTube/recommendation rabbit hole to voices like Tucker Carlson and, further, the alt-right.
  • “You’re googling a guy named Cliff and you’re finding him on Tucker Carlson... before you know it, you’re down this pipeline...” (B, 61:19)

6. Defining Christian Nationalism & The Pipeline

[54:09 - 61:19]

• Christian Nationalism: What Does It Mean?
  Tucker & Cliff minimize the definition, equating “making the country more Christian” with mere personal piety, denying it means “state religion.”
  • Tucker Carlson: “So if by Christian nationalism, you mean you try to make it a more Christian country, that's what you just advocated for.” (F, 54:19)
  • Cliff Knechtel: “...I’m against the state religion. Yep. Same here.” (C/D, 54:45)
• Semantic Gymnastics:
  April: “...they would say, but we are not going to go around and force you to be Christian. We're just going to force you to obey Christian laws.” (A, 55:54)
• The True Definition:
  April and Tim refer to academic and historical definitions:
  • “It is a conflation of a theological belief and a political ideology... You are trying to impose laws based on your Christian beliefs. That is Christian nationalism.” (A, 57:10/57:18)
  • Tim makes a clear distinction: “...Christian nationalism is a very specific type of Christianity that believes in a fundamentalist and supremacist takeover of the country to make it more white Christian nationalist...” (B, 57:27)

7. Reflections & Call to Awareness

[61:19 - End]

• Summing Up the Indoctrination Pipeline:
  April: “We actually are not pushing conservatism. We're not pushing liberalism. We're not pushing you to vote for any certain way. We just want you to vote for God's way. And it says this little pretty package. And then all those young people...conflate the two. Now, Republicanism equals Christianity, and that is Christian nationalism.” (A, 60:34)
• Breaking Out of the Bubble:
  Tim: “It's a very compelling worldview. When you're inside the bubble... And then before you know it, you're googling a guy named Cliff and you're finding him on Tucker Carlson...before you know it, you're down this pipeline...” (B, 61:19)
• Final Thought:
  April: “It's very easy to get sucked into this world and to be indoctrinated into this world, and it's hard to get out of it once you've bought in.” (A, 62:42)

Notable Quotes & Moments

• “It looks like this really cool, modern, almost progressive kind of vibe…but it’s a Trojan horse to get people into fundamentalist Christian evangelicalism...” — Tim [03:30]
• “If you read the Bible and adopt a Christ centered worldview on all those issues, you’ll know how to vote. Please vote.” — Cliff Knechtel [14:07]
• “What he's not saying is that God’s agenda just happens to line up perfectly with the conservative agenda.” — April [15:21]
• “You can look years and years before you ever realize, oh, shoot, I was a Christian nationalist, right?” — April [06:46]
• “If you come away with different convictions, you are an apostate, you're a heretic, you're no longer welcome here, et cetera.” — Tim [17:11]
• “Which is why they can easily dismiss anybody who doesn’t believe what they believe.” — April [26:40]
• “Charlie Kirk has said some of the most dehumanizing stuff about queer people that you can imagine...And Cliff thinks that Charlie's organization, and Charlie, is somehow advocating for Christian ideals here, the teachings of Christ. I do not understand it.” — Tim [51:41]
• “Christian nationalism is a very specific type of Christianity that believes in a fundamentalist and supremacist takeover of the country to make it more white Christian nationalist.” — Tim [57:27]

Key Takeaways

• Indoctrination Begins Early:
  Evangelical events use music, peer pressure, and belonging to emotionally bond teens to conservative, religious-political ideals before they’re fully aware.
• Subtle but Powerful Messaging:
  Leaders routinely couch right-wing policy goals in biblical/religious language, openly encouraging political action aligned with their worldview—while denying overt political partisanship.
• Leaders in the Pipeline:
  Seemingly moderate Christian speakers often appear on overtly right-wing platforms, showing a strong network of ideological reinforcement; the claims of “not being Christian nationalist” often ring hollow when viewed in this context.
• False Equivalence & Denial:
  Christian Nationalism is minimized or denied even as its mechanisms—advocacy for Christian laws, culture war issues, and political activism—are promoted.
• The Real Threat:
  The heart of the concern is not private belief or church worship, but the explicit attempt to shape American law and policy to fit a narrow brand of conservative Christianity—for everyone.

Conclusion

Tim & April urge listeners to see how easily well-meaning youth can be swept into Christian nationalist ideology, and how parents, churches, and communities must be vigilant about the subtle forms of indoctrination happening in seemingly innocuous settings. They point to the need for clear definitions, diverse perspectives, and robust democratic engagement to resist the conflation of Christianity with nationalist or exclusionary politics.

For feedback or to join the conversation, reach out to The Tim & April Show via email or visit thenewevangelicals.com.