The Tim & April Show – Episode 82

Title: Can Christians Support ICE? Why Allie Beth Stuckey and MAGA are Wrong
Date: January 27, 2026
Hosts: Tim Whitaker & April Ajoy
Podcast: The New Evangelicals

Episode Overview

This episode confronts a controversial question at the intersection of faith, politics, and immigration policy: Can Christians support the tactics of ICE, especially as defended by right-wing pundit Allie Beth Stuckey and the MAGA movement? With empathy, order, and Christian values at stake, Tim and April critique Stuckey’s defense of ICE and examine the broader implications of Christian nationalism’s stance on immigration. The dialogue is both personal and analytical, challenging listeners to ponder the ethical ramifications of aligning Christian faith with harsh immigration enforcement.

Key Themes & Discussion Points

1. Why Respond to Allie Beth Stuckey?

• Allie Beth Stuckey is highlighted because she uniquely bridges the evangelical and political worlds, influencing a large audience with her blend of Christian language and political commentary.
• Tim (05:03): “She’s one of the few political media pundits who really has a foot in both the evangelical fundamentalist world and in politics... That’s why we highlight her positions.”

2. Stuckey’s “Toxic Empathy” Argument

• Stuckey claims that empathy can be dangerous, leading people to ignore laws and broader consequences out of misplaced compassion—especially regarding immigrant families.
• Allie Beth Stuckey (09:47): “Empathy blinds you to both reality and morality. Empathy makes you focus on only one person on the side of the moral equation and makes you forget about the rights and the needs and the privacy and the fairness for the person on the other side of the moral equation.”
• April and Tim challenge the premise, arguing that empathy is central to Christian ethics and that using it as a pejorative undermines the gospel’s call to love our neighbors.

3. Use of Crime Statistics and Stereotypes

• Stuckey cites selective statistics about immigrants and crimes to justify harsh ICE actions, but Tim and April reveal the manipulative framing:

  • April (12:16): “If we just look at that, that is a very small percentage of the people coming across the border that are committing these crimes. She doesn’t even realize what she just proved.”
  • Tim (13:18): “Data point Ali is not citing here: Undocumented immigrants are half as likely to commit any kind of crime compared to native born counterparts.”

• They emphasize that Stuckey uses her data to stoke fear and reinforce racial stereotypes, whereas equivalent statistics on white Americans or clergy are never used in similar fashion by the right.

4. The “Nation as Family/Home” Analogy

• Stuckey analogizes nations to families that have the right to “lock their doors”—suggesting that limiting refugee and migrant entry is an act of parental responsibility.
  • Tim (20:41): “This is a horrible analogy. America is not a house. There is plenty of room in America for people to live without disrupting other people.”
  • April and Tim point out the hypocrisy and historical amnesia, noting that many white Christians are descendants of immigrants themselves and that the analogy ignores indigenous histories.

5. Selective Use of Romans 13

• Stuckey invokes Romans 13 to assert the God-given right and duty of governments to enforce borders and deport “illegals.”

  • April (17:30): “They only ever bring up that verse when a Republican is president… Do you remember when everyone was trying to get the COVID vaccine?... They were like, do not comply.”

• The hosts highlight the inconsistency: order and law are valued only when it serves MAGA goals. They also criticize the silence on ICE abuses against actual citizens and on American imperialism abroad.

6. Racism and Christian Nationalism in Immigration Policy

• Stuckey’s arguments are dissected as dog whistles for white supremacy and exclusionary nationalism, which ignores or erases immigrants who are themselves Christian.

  • Tim (22:44): “The true American citizen is not the brown-skinned immigrant who has citizenship. It’s about maintaining America as a mostly white, European-centric, conservative Christian country.”
  • April (23:01): “It is so racist to just assume that, oh, you’re immigrant, you automatically have to be violent.”

• Tim provides Cato Institute stats: “65% of people taken by ICE had no convictions, 93% no violent convictions.” (26:10, 24:06)

7. ICE Tactics: Order or Disorder?

• Stuckey supports ICE as preserving “God’s order,” contrasting godly order with Babel-esque chaos.

  • Ali Beth Stuckey (33:38): “Christians should be for that because we serve a God of peace, not a God of disorder… That’s why he created laws, that’s why he created borders...”

• Tim and April present evidence of ICE’s disorder: brutality, racial profiling, violation of due process, and traumatizing families—including a viral video where ICE agents harass someone “because of your accent.” (46:16–46:36)

  • Tim (34:27): “This is not order, Ali. This is Minneapolis. This is what ICE is doing to people.”

8. Moral Double Standards and Hypocrisy

• The hosts juxtapose Stuckey’s outrage at immigrant crime with conservative indifference toward clergy sexual abuse, gun violence, and right-wing chaos (e.g., January 6 insurrection).
  • April (29:41): “Where is this outrage? When pastors get caught in scandals and pedophilia, that happens at a surprisingly higher rate than you would think, but they would never say, oh, we got to get rid of all pastors... They are silent.”
  • Tim (37:48): “Do you think she would apply this to tough gun policy? If we had tough gun policy, those kids in those schools would still be alive... Oh no, wait, that’s a God given right.”

9. Faith, Indoctrination, and Deconstruction

• The latter part turns introspective: Tim and April reflect on how they held similarly hardline beliefs in the past due to evangelical indoctrination.
  • April (48:46): “I want to believe people can change… But I don’t know how to reconcile people reading the same words of Jesus that I read and coming away with ‘Christians should support all the terror that ICE is doing…’”
  • Tim (50:05): “If I am in that headspace… what I believe, deeply, is that Democrats and liberals hate me… So I’m willing to overlook a lot to justify the actions.”

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• April, on “Toxic Empathy” (08:15):
  “Why is it bad that women, as a mom, you know how desperately you would want to be with your children and how desperately your children would want to be with you, that you would want that for other families as well?”

• Tim, on ICE brutality (34:27):
  “This is not order, Ali. This is Minneapolis. This is what ICE is doing to people. This is the agitation that they are causing.”

• April, on Christian hypocrisy (29:41):
  “Where is this outrage when pastors get caught in scandals and pedophilia? ...they are silent.”

• Tim, on double standards with Romans 13 (17:45):
  “The Bible becomes a weapon to use whenever convenient for them... When your guy’s in office... Oh, Romans 13.”

• April, on American history (20:52):
  “From a very basic standpoint… white people are immigrants. This was not our original land... It’s indigenous people, it’s really their country that we took and stole.”

• Tim, factual counterpoint (26:10):
  “65% of people taken by ICE had no convictions, 93% no violent convictions, according to the Cato Institute. June 20, 2025.”

• Tim, on Christian nationalism (22:44):
  “This is about maintaining America as a mostly white, European centric, conservative, Christian country. Anyone outside of that...is not a real citizen.”

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [05:03] Why respond to Allie Beth Stuckey’s videos
• [09:47] Stuckey’s “Toxic Empathy” argument critique
• [12:16–14:13] Dissecting selective immigrant crime statistics
• [17:30] Romans 13 and the selective use of scripture
• [20:41] Critiquing the “nation as home/family” analogy
• [22:44] Racism and the true meaning of citizenship
• [24:06, 26:10] Factual correction: Most ICE detainees have no violent convictions
• [29:41, 30:10] Outrage (or lack thereof) over clergy sex abuse
• [33:38] Stuckey’s “order vs. chaos” rhetoric
• [34:27] Examples of ICE brutality and disorder
• [37:48] Hypocrisy—comparing responses to gun policy and immigration
• [48:46, 50:05] Personal reflections on indoctrination and belief

Tone & Style

Throughout, Tim and April balance incisive critique, personal stories, and moments of humor (e.g., “It’s like we do a show together!” [33:19]). They are direct but never cruel, making room for empathy and nuance even when expressing frustration. Their language is conversational, informed, and accessible—sharp enough to challenge, gentle enough to engage.

Summary

This episode powerfully exposes the moral and logical inconsistencies in defending harsh ICE tactics from a Christian perspective, especially as articulated by Allie Beth Stuckey and the MAGA movement. It highlights how Scripture and empathy can be misused as political tools, critiques racism and Christian nationalism’s influence on immigration law, and underscores the need for Christians to confront propaganda in their midst. The conversation provokes listeners to reexamine what loving one’s neighbor truly means—urging faith communities to center compassion, justice, and truth over partisan fearmongering and exclusion.