#807: In Case You Missed It: March 2025 Recap of "The Tim Ferriss Show"

Summary

The Tim Ferriss Show: Episode #807 – March 2025 Recap

Release Date: April 22, 2025

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In this special episode of "The Tim Ferriss Show," host Tim Ferriss offers a comprehensive recap of the show's March 2025 episodes. Serving as a curated buffet of insights, this episode features short clips from conversations with three remarkable guests: Craig Mod, Ev Williams, and Richard Taylor. Each segment provides a glimpse into the lives and minds of these world-class performers, highlighting their unique tools, tactics, and philosophies.

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1. Craig Mod: Overcoming Personal Struggles and Embracing Creativity

Background: Craig Mod is a writer, photographer, and walker based in Tokyo and Kamakura, Japan. As the author of Things Become Other Things and Kisa by Kisa, Craig has embarked on thousands of miles of walking across Japan, blending his journeys with creative exploration.

Key Discussion Points:

• Personal Struggles with Alcoholism: Craig candidly shares his battle with alcohol in his 20s, revealing how his move to Japan marked a turning point. Initially trying to reinvent himself, he succumbed to heavy drinking due to the cultural norm of social drinking in Japan.

  [03:22] Craig Mod: "I just got goosebumps actually. So I really struggled with alcohol in my 20s... I ended up drinking like a fish."

• Deep Connection and Love: During a 40-day trip through Tibet with his then-girlfriend, Craig experienced a profound spiritual encounter, which he describes as feeling "possessed by a spirit." This intense connection, however, was strained by his drinking habits, ultimately leading to the end of the relationship.

  [07:03] Craig Mod: "This connects with a lot of my walking as well. It's like giving yourself up to what the day could potentially give to you."

• Path to Recovery: Facing rock bottom after the breakup, Craig found solace in running and training for a marathon. This commitment was his initial step toward addressing his self-worth issues and overcoming alcoholism.

  [10:54] Craig Mod: "I'm never going to have anyone who will ever love me like this person loved me. And I'm never going to be able to create like I created with this person."

Insights and Conclusions: Craig's journey underscores the power of deliberate habit formation and self-identity in overcoming personal demons. By redefining himself as a runner and gradually eliminating alcohol, he illustrates the effectiveness of incremental changes inspired by principles similar to those in "Atomic Habits."

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2. Ev Williams: Building Connections and Healing Through Technology

Background: Ev Williams, the co-founder of Mozi and a pivotal figure in the creation of Blogger, Medium, and Twitter, delves into the intersection of technology and personal well-being. As the co-founder of Obvious Ventures, Ev focuses on fostering world-positive companies.

Key Discussion Points:

• Billboard Message: Ev contemplates what message he would place on a billboard, emphasizing themes of self-healing and interconnectedness.

  [14:20] Ev Williams: "I might overthink it and understand... We can assume they'll understand."

• Healing Through Self and Culture: He posits that healing individuals and cultures is foundational to addressing larger systemic issues like climate change.

  [14:35] Ev Williams: "I'm going to build on that... we need to heal culture, to heal the planet."

• Personal Transformation: Ev discusses his own evolution from dismissing feelings to embracing practices like the Hoffman Process, meditation, and regular exercise as tools for personal growth.

  [16:55] Ev Williams: "The best thing I've ever done in that realm is Hoffman... Dive in and it's incredible."

• Consistency in Practices: Highlighting the importance of daily habits, Ev shares his commitment to meditation and exercise, which have significantly improved his life.

  [21:28] Ev Williams: "The consistency of meditation... how fast you can drop in if you do it every single day."

Insights and Conclusions: Ev emphasizes the critical role of personal healing and consistent self-improvement practices in fostering broader societal change. His insights advocate for leveraging technology not just for connectivity but as a means to enhance personal well-being and cultural resilience.

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3. Richard Taylor: Leadership and Creativity in Weta Workshop

Background: Richard Taylor, co-founder and Creative Lead at Weta Workshop, alongside his wife Tanya, has been instrumental in bringing to life some of the most iconic designs in film and television. Weta Workshop has contributed to franchises like The Lord of the Rings, Planet of the Apes, and Avatar.

Key Discussion Points:

• Taking on the 'Lord of the Rings' Project: Richard delves into the monumental decision to collaborate with Peter Jackson on The Lord of the Rings, emphasizing the strategic and leadership challenges involved.

  [24:35] Richard Taylor: "It's a shotgun towards the edge of a precipice... you choose to leap."

• Leadership Tenets: He outlines four core tenets that guide both personal conduct and company operations:

  1. Love of Oneself: Recognizing and valuing one's own virtues to inspire others.
  2. Love of What You Do: Finding joy and passion in one's work.
  3. Love of Who You Do It With: Building strong, respectful relationships within the team.
  4. Love of Who You Do It For: Maintaining a genuine connection to the audience or beneficiaries.

  [31:42] Richard Taylor: "Love of oneself, love of what you do, love of who you do it with, and love of who you do it for."

• Overcoming Challenges Through Teamwork: Discussing the vast scope of the project, Richard highlights the importance of collective effort and the "can-do" attitude prevalent in New Zealand. This mindset was crucial in mobilizing a large, inexperienced team to execute complex tasks over seven and a half years.

  [34:25] Richard Taylor: "We're the workshop. We were a small component... made by a nation of people coming together."

• Peter Jackson's Influence: Richard credits Peter Jackson's unwavering confidence and visionary leadership as pivotal in steering Weta Workshop through the challenges of the trilogy project.

  [38:05] Richard Taylor: "Peter Jackson's self-belief and sheer drive... confident leader."

Insights and Conclusions: Richard's narrative underscores the significance of foundational leadership principles rooted in self-love, passion, teamwork, and audience connection. His experience with Weta Workshop exemplifies how a cohesive, motivated team can tackle seemingly insurmountable projects through shared vision and relentless perseverance.

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4. Concluding Thoughts

This recap episode serves as a testament to the diverse range of topics and deep personal insights that "The Tim Ferriss Show" offers its listeners. From personal battles and creative pursuits to leadership philosophies and technological innovations, the featured guests provide valuable lessons on resilience, self-improvement, and the power of collaborative effort.

By distilling these conversations into a single, accessible episode, Tim Ferriss ensures that even those who may have missed the original interviews can benefit from the wealth of knowledge shared by Craig Mod, Ev Williams, and Richard Taylor.

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For more detailed discussions, listeners are encouraged to explore the full episodes featuring each guest. Whether you're seeking inspiration to overcome personal challenges, insights into building meaningful connections, or strategies for leading creative endeavors, this March 2025 recap encapsulates the essence of what makes "The Tim Ferriss Show" a go-to resource for personal and professional growth.

Transcript

[Tim Ferriss]

This episode is brought to you by five Bullet Friday, my very own email newsletter. It's become one of the most popular email newsletters in the world with millions of subscribers and it's super super simple. It does not clog up your inbox. Every Friday I send out five bullet points. Super short of the coolest things I found that week, which sometimes includes apps, books, documentaries, supplements, gadgets, new self experiments, hacks, tricks and all sorts of weird stuff that I dig up from around the world. You guys, podcast listeners and book readers have asked me for something and action packed for a very long time because after all the podcasts, the books, they can be quite long. And that's why I created five Bullet Friday. It's become one of my favorite things I do every week. It's free. It's always going to be free and you can learn more at Tim Blog Friday. That's Tim Blog Friday. I get asked a lot how I meet guests for the podcast, some of the most amazing people I've ever interacted with and little known fact I've met probably 25% of them because they first subscribed to Five Below Friday. So you'll be in good company. It's a lot of fun. 5 Bullet Friday is only available if you subscribe via email. I do not publish the content on the blog or anywhere else. Also, if I'm doing small in person meetups, offering early access to startups, beta testing, special deals or anything else that's very limited, I share it first with filebillite Friday subscribers. So check it out. Tim Blog Friday if you listen to this podcast it's very likely that you'd dig it a lot and you can of course easily subscribe anytime. So easy peasy. Again, that's Tim Blog Friday and thanks for checking it out. If the spirit moves you optimal minimal.

[Craig Mod]

At this altitude I can run flat out for a half mile before my hands start shaking. Can I answer your personal question now?

[Ev Williams]

It seems appropriate.

[Tim Ferriss]

Time. What if I did the opposite?

[Richard Taylor]

I'm a cybernetic organism, living tissue over a metal endoskeleton.

[Craig Mod]

Ferris show.

[Tim Ferriss]

Hello boys and girls, this is Tim Ferriss. Welcome to another episode of the Tim Ferriss show where it is my job to deconstruct world class performers of all different types to tease out the routines, habits and so on that you can apply to your own life. This is a special in between episode which serves as a recap of the episodes from the last month. Features a short clip from each conversation in one place so you can jump around, get a feel for both the episode and the guest. And then you can always dig deeper by going to one of those episodes. View this episode as a buffet to whet your appetite. It's a lot of fun. We had fun putting it together. And for the full list of the guests featured today, see the episode's description probably right below. Wherever you press play in your podcast app or as usual, you can head to Tim Blog Podcast and find all the details there. Please enjoy.

[Greg Broadmoor]

First up, Craig Mod, a writer, photographer and walker living in Tokyo and Kamakura, Japan, and the author of Things Become Other Things and Kisa by Kisa. You can find Craig on Instagram and xraigmod. This excerpt comes from Tim's first interview with Craig.

[Tim Ferriss]

2009 hike to Nepal. Is that enough of a cue? Can you tell this story?

[Craig Mod]

Yeah, that's an inflection point. I just got goosebumps actually. So I really struggled with alcohol in my 20s, my teenage years. I didn't touch anything. I was militantly straight edge ish. And basically looking back now, I realize I had such a strong impulse to make sure I could get to whatever the next place was. Anything I saw that could hold me back, which included falling in love or doing drugs or anything like that. That was a retarding agent. As a teenager I was like. Immediately I was like, okay, I don't need this. And I got to Japan and it was like, oh, this is a place to reinvent myself. And I started drinking as you do, because people drink so much here.

[Tim Ferriss]

Sure.

[Craig Mod]

And it turns out that I can drink a lot. I can have 15, 20 drinks, not throw up. I black out. Sure. But there's something in my genes that allows me to just drink. And then after two or three drinks, something activates where it's just all we live for is more drink. And I think for most of my 20s, because I had such a low sense of self worth, because of where I came from, because I felt this abundance of people around me that I didn't feel I had and I didn't know how to ratchet that up. And I had this desire to produce culture or to produce art, to produce literature at a level that I didn't know how to, and I didn't know how to bridge that gap. And what I ended up doing was because I didn't have mentors, because I didn't have archetypes near me, I just drank like a fish. And I played a lot of music because that was one thing I did have mastery over and played a lot of music And I played a lot of that, blacked out. I'm really lucky I didn't die. I mean, it would be one of these things where many, many mornings of my life I've woken up and it's just been checking is my face okay? Did I break my skull open or something like that? And I was madly in love. I fell madly, madly in love. I was 26, 27 years old. And I just. I had the most incredible love connection I had ever felt. This otherworldly sense of being in love with this person. And we connected so intensely and immediately went on a 40 day trip. A week after meeting, a 40 day trip through Tibet. We went to Tibet. I was possessed by a spirit. I spoke in tongues.

[Tim Ferriss]

Hold on, hold on.

[Craig Mod]

We hiked up to a glacier.

[Tim Ferriss]

I mean, we can't really skipped over getting possessed by spirits.

[Craig Mod]

I mean, yeah. We stayed at this one little hotel in Laza that had not always been a hotel. It was this old structure. And woke up the next morning and my girlfriend was being very strange. She was being very weird. And I was like, what's going on? She's like, I'll tell you when we get outside. I was like, what? You'll tell me when we get outside? What's this about? And we go outside and she goes, okay. Last night we had to get out of there because last night I woke up in the middle of the night. You were on your side of the bed cradling something that was not there. You were speaking in Tibetan. I couldn't get you to wake up. And I was trying to speak to you in English, trying to speak to you in Japanese. You wouldn't respond. And I finally crawled over on your side of the bed and I kind of took the air that you were holding and I turned you on your side and you were able to calm down and go to sleep. And I was like, oh my God. I had this. Because I had had this vision dream of this woman in white standing in the doorway at the foot of the bed the night before. And I don't know what was happening. And even now I'm full body goosebumps right now.

[Tim Ferriss]

God, this is straight out of Paranormal Activity or something. I'm just like, oh, God.

[Craig Mod]

It was so bizarre. And we had been. And you have to imagine, I don't know if you've ever been in love to this degree, where it just feels like everything in the world is fated. Everything is a sign that you need to be together, that this is magic. Only these things can possibly happen because you're connected. You're together. We both bought. I remember we pulled out our books on the first day of the trip. We had both brought the Stranger by Camus. It was like, oh, my God, we're fated. I went back into the hotel and I went to the manager. I was like, hey, I don't think we could stay here tonight. He's like, oh, what's wrong? And I was like, well, I was kind of possessed. Saw this. He's like, did you see the woman? And I was like, yeah. He's like, oh, yeah. No, we know what's going on with that here. We'll take you to the Dream Reader. And so I was like, what? You'll take me to the Dream Reader? So I ended up. I'll try to truncate this because it can kind of get a little bit long.

[Tim Ferriss]

But, I mean, I'm not sure anybody listening wants you to truncate this particular story. I mean, go wherever you want.

[Craig Mod]

One of the workers there, the manager's like, okay, take him to the Dream Reader. And I'm thinking, okay, this is a scam. I'm getting scammed. Something weird's going on. And he takes us, and we go to the outskirts of Laza. We go to this really kind of weird apartment block that was just made of concrete. It was maybe two or three stories tall. And he takes us to this room on the third floor. And there's a line of people, line of Tibetans waiting at this door. And they were all waiting to have their dreams read. So it was like, okay, this is bizarre. So we wait. We stand in line. We go inside. We sit down inside. The most beautiful. I don't know how old she was. She was anywhere between 15 and 1000 years old. She was just this creature of just the most bizarre light walks out. It was like being in the Matrix. You know the scene in the Matrix where they're like. With the spoon and the bending, and you're in this random apartment, the TV's on. It was like that situation. She comes over, brings some yak, buttermilk tea, some cookies, because someone's in the Dream Reader room. And we're waiting for them to get out. And then our term comes up. I go in there. You go into this room. It's all candles, Dalai Lama photos, all this stuff. It's like you feel like you're in this really holy space. And the guy from the hotel interprets for us. And I tell her the dream. I tell her what happened. And she gives me this blessing, puts a white wreath around my neck, gives me this little satchel of seeds and tells me to put them under my pillow when I sleep and then writes me a prayer. And she says, okay, here's these three pieces of paper. You have to take them to these three temples and they will burn them for you tonight. They'll know what to do. Just tell them the dream reader sent you and you'll be okay, you'll be fine, everything will be good. And I was like, no one's asking me for money. And the hotel guy's like, oh, you can leave a tip if you want, or whatever. And it was like $2 or something. I put $2 in the little thingy. And then we go to the temples and it ended up becoming this incredible adventure. This connects with a lot of my walking as well. It's like having experiences like this, I think, informed, this sense of just give yourself up to what the day could potentially give to you. And so I ended up going to all these temples I would have never gone to. I went to the dream reader's apartment, which was the most bizarre, beautiful place I went to in all of Tibet in that entire trip. We went to these temples, met these monks. Hey, can you burn this for me? Oh, yes, of course, absolutely. Give them a. A dollar or 50 cents or whatever. The whole thing cost nothing. It was clearly not a scam. It was clearly this thing that a lot of locals were participating in. And it was magic. It was just pure magic. So anyway, things like that were happening with this woman and I screwed it up because of my drinking. I ruined the relationship. She punched me in the face at one point, very rightfully so. And she was like, hey, I can't be with someone like you.

[Tim Ferriss]

This happened on that trip.

[Craig Mod]

Not on that trip. That happened a couple months later. We ended up staying together for about three months. And basically, I mean, it was about 10 years worth of lifetime.

[Tim Ferriss]

The candle that burns twice as bright.

[Craig Mod]

But losing her was probably the biggest psychic damage I had ever encountered in my life as an adult. And I remember just lying in my tiny apartment in Tokyo. My six mat tatami room apartment in Tokyo. It was three in the morning, I wanted to die. It was rock, rock, rock bottom. This isn't a rich roll story. I didn't get up and run 40 miles or anything like that, but I was like, I'm going to start running. And I went out and I ran 5k at 3 in the morning through the streets of Tokyo. And I was like, that felt good. And I was like, okay, I need to stop Drinking and to stop drinking. I'm going to run this marathon in November. I think it was July when this happened, and I just started preparing for that. These were actually the first steps for me to deliberately address this lack of self worth that I've been carrying around for all of my adult life. And that had, I think, driven me to drink the way I drank that, to give in to whatever those genetic impulses were and to start to go, okay, we're going to run. We're going to be someone who runs. A lot of this is also very atomic habits style stuff. It's like, who are you going to be and how are you going to set yourself up to be successful? I'm going to be a person who runs. I'm going to be a person who doesn't drink. I'm going to be a person who charges a lot. So I was at this time with the publishing company thing, we were producing these books that were winning awards and making absolutely no money. And so I was consulting, doing web design consulting and stuff like that. And I was like, okay, I'm going to start charging absurd amounts of money for my time. The worst that can happen is people reject. And they started accepting it. And I was like, oh, little by little, all these stupid little steps. From the time I was basically 27 to 30, these were the most important years of tiny little steps. My time is more valuable. I'm going to be a person who runs. I'm going to be a person who can take care of himself. I still drank, even though I tried to not drink, but I started lowering. It took me about four full years to completely get off the sauce in a really dangerous way. And part of it culminated in going to Nepal and climbing up to Annapurna Base Camp. And that was after we had broken up. And I felt like all the magic of my life was done. I felt like there was no way for me to experience magic again. I felt like she. And again, it's this totally irrational sense of scarcity. The amount of scarcity I felt as an adult in my 20s is just shocking. It was this fathomless sense of scarcity. Like, the money's not going to be there, the love isn't going to be there, the support isn't going to be there. And then when I lost her, I was like, I'm never going to have anyone who will ever love me like this person loved me. And I'm never going to be able to create like I created with this person. And I had to start proving to myself that that wasn't true. And I climbed up. I was like, okay, I'm just going to go to Nepal and I'm going to climb up Annapurna, go to Basecamp.

[Greg Broadmoor]

And now Ev Williams, the co founder of the new social network Mozi and the co founder of Blogger Medium and Twitter. You can learn more about Mozi at Mozi app.

[Tim Ferriss]

Metaphorically speaking, the billboard question, right? So if you were going to put a message on a billboard, could say anything, could be an image, anything at all that you would want a lot of people to see and understand. What might you put on that?

[Ev Williams]

I love this question. I might overthink it and understand. So we can assume they'll the and understand.

[Tim Ferriss]

I threw on there with a little creative flourish. It may complicate your thinking.

[Ev Williams]

I'm going to build on that. And thinking about this, what comes to mind first of all is the category is something that will help people heal, you know, just be their whole and true selves. Because I think that's where all our problems come from, is the lack of that. And as much as I care about climate, I think the, the key to solving climate is to heal ourselves, to heal culture, to heal the planet. And so I start with the, the self. And then my mind goes to what's a big fundamental truth that we want? Everyone, let's pretend if they read it, they'll actually get it and, and know it. Then I think there's a little bit of tension between like the most fundamental truths and how actionable they are. So if we said we are all one, which I believe it's like, okay, we're all one. The universe is one big thing. We're all connected. What do I do with that? I mean, maybe if you really ponder that and meditate on that a long time, it'll actually, it will do you some good. But then if you move toward the spectrum of usefulness of what's a fundamental truth that's more useful. You might some, you know, have like some Buddhist or saying like all of our suffering comes from our thoughts or inability to accept reality, which is a little bit more useful, but maybe for the masses, still not very actionable. And then you could move to feel your feelings, which I think would do a tremendous amount of good. If people adopt, oh, feel your feelings. It's a little bit easier to imagine that so much of our suffering. I say this as someone who told their first therapist, I don't understand the point of feelings. I was like, they are just a nuisance and get in the way. So it Took me a long time to appreciate that and the avoidance that so many of us go through. And then one step further might be stop drinking alcohol for six months and see how you feel. Not tonight, though.

[Richard Taylor]

It's fine.

[Tim Ferriss]

We're in a Not tonight.

[Craig Mod]

Nice. Starting tomorrow. Starting tomorrow.

[Ev Williams]

Consider it.

[Tim Ferriss]

So following up just on the feeling, your feelings, you said for a long time. And you said this to your first therapist, right? They're just a nuisance. I'd like to know how to rid myself of these irritations. What changed? How did you end up going onto Team Feelings?

[Ev Williams]

So, I mean, it was a long, long process. I mean, the therapy helped, the psychedelics helped, meditation, growth, learning, reading books, having friends, stopping drinking. Actually, just for six months. And I've gone through a lot. I've done a lot of work, particularly in the last couple years, that's been just super, super important.

[Tim Ferriss]

Yeah, just a note on alcohol. Look, I'm gonna have some drinks tonight. I do enjoy drinking, but. But just a PSA for people because ketamine is in the air. Ketamine's probably in a few people's pockets here. They're both dissociative anesthetics. So if you want to feel your feelings, it's a good idea not to engage with those things excessively. And if you have a history of alcohol overuse, I would also stay away from any at home ketamine. But in terms of books or types of therapy, did you find if there are people in the audience who are like, yeah, you know what? Actually, that makes sense to me, but I've never been able to find a handhold to get started. Is there any advice you might give?

[Ev Williams]

Probably the best thing I've ever done in that realm is Hoffman. Have you done Hoffman?

[Tim Ferriss]

Hoffman? I haven't done Hoffman, but quite a few of my friends have.

[Ev Williams]

So there's this thing called the hoffman process. It's 20 years of therapy in a week. In terms of the effect, I mean, I got much more out of it than I ever got in therapy. It's a week long retreat. There's a few different places. The main one's in Petaluma, California. You hand over your phone, you go and do some exercises with 36 strangers and yourself for a week, and you come out a new person.

[Tim Ferriss]

So I've spoken. Well, not directly. I've more listened, but had a conversation on this podcast where the Hoffman process came up. And a lot of listeners have gone to the Hoffman process. And I get letters literally every week from people who are thanking me for not really the proper credit because there's someone else who brought it up for the Hoffman process. I'm very curious. You mentioned the strangers. Part of the reason I haven't gone is I'm like, I don't want to air all of my dirty laundry in front of 20 strangers. I don't know these people. And I know you're also, I think it's fair to say, pretty introverted. I would say I am. Even though I'm on stage, like safely doing speaking into the darkness. Was that an issue at all for you or how did you get past that?

[Ev Williams]

It wasn't easy, but it's just in the context of it, it just feels very safe. One of the fascinating things is it's strangers. You are not allowed to say your last name or what you do in the real world when you get there. So you connect with people. And I realized after a few days I relied so much on people knowing who I was or what I did that it was this veil between me and other humans. So you get to know people at such a deep level without really knowing any of the normal things that we would say, you meet someone here, what do you do? Where do you live? And that it just feels incredibly safe. But the processes, they've been doing it for 50 some years. It's very evolved. It's very well done. You take any of it out of context. That sounds weird. Like I knew nothing going in. And about five people brought it up to me in random conversations over a week and were like, okay, this is a message. Go sign up for this thing. Show up. I had no idea. And then you just dive in and it's incredible.

[Tim Ferriss]

Yeah. From what I can tell, it's somewhat like Fight Club. It's like, first rule of Fight Club is don't talk about Fight Club. You're not going to find much detail on the Hoffman process. This also ties into a question I was planning on asking anyway, which is, are there any habits or beliefs that have really positively impacted your life in the last handful of years? Could also be 10 years ago, but you've talked about doing a lot of work in the last handful of years. Any new habits, beliefs, tools, anything come to mind that have been really helpful?

[Ev Williams]

Yes. But I feel like they're the ones that everybody knows.

[Tim Ferriss]

I mean, sometimes the fundamentals are worth a review.

[Ev Williams]

It is exercise, Exercise and meditation I dabbled in for a long time and then I got much more serious a couple years ago about both and really, really dramatic life improvement.

[Tim Ferriss]

Why did you get more serious about them? You just wake up one day and you're like, today's a new day. Or was there a breaking point?

[Ev Williams]

Early, early Covid. I was like, what the fuck am I doing? I'm going to turn 50 and I need to work a hell of a lot harder to be in shape than I was. So I just started doing it. I was at home, I had the time, so I did that. Although that thing increased and you know, because you get the positive reward cycle and feels great. And meditation, I've always found super valuable. And I just. Last year on January 2, 2024, I had meditated the day before and I was like, I could meditate every single day this year. And it was just that, that sort of psychological hook that you find motivating, even though it's arbitrary. And I was like, yes, I'm going to meditate every single day in 2024. That's a goal. And I don't normally set goals like that, but I was like, okay, let's see what happens. And my teacher says, you can't boil water if you keep turning off the flame. And so the consistency of meditation, I underestimated what dramatic difference that makes and how fast you can drop in if you do it every single day.

[Tim Ferriss]

What type of meditation did you decide on?

[Ev Williams]

Mindfulness meditation. Breath and awareness. Not tm, just.

[Tim Ferriss]

Just like an open monitoring feel what you feel.

[Craig Mod]

See?

[Tim Ferriss]

You see?

[Ev Williams]

Yeah.

[Tim Ferriss]

Are you noting things or are you just sometimes noting?

[Ev Williams]

Sometimes noting. And I know you, you like know about products. You know about this product, but the. I was using the Way. Yep, you probably talked about that before. The Way is a meditation app. I hadn't used a meditation app for years. The Way I started using the Way. Kevin sent it to me actually around when it was still in beta and I started doing that around that time. Yeah, the Way is fantastic.

[Tim Ferriss]

Yeah. Henry Shookman, just an incredible guy. Hope to meet him in person someday.

[Greg Broadmoor]

Last but not least, Richard Taylor, the co founder and creative lead at Academy Award winning design studio and manufacturing facility Weta Workshop. And Greg Brodmore, an artist and writer who has been part of the Weta Workshop team for more than 20 years and is the creator of the retro sci fi world of Dr. Groerd Bortz and the graphic novel series OnePath.

[Tim Ferriss]

But first I do want to talk about, because this certainly is so iconic and it's in the minds of probably most people listening, which is Lord of the Rings. And I'd like to understand what some of the most, first of all, kind of how that came to Be Richard. And then what some of the most crucial decisions were with respect to taking on a project of that scope. Because for a lot of companies, I could see that being the hug of death. Where you suddenly go from reasonably moderately contained and small to sprawling. Taking on so much responsibility and many companies would implode. I've seen it happen many, many times. So how did that come to be? And what were some of the most important decisions made that allowed you to grow the company and take that on?

[Richard Taylor]

Yeah, that's a really big question. I'll try and answer it in a very condensed way.

[Tim Ferriss]

We have time.

[Richard Taylor]

I just pulled this out, right? This is Sting from the movie. This is one of my favorite things that we've made in the company. And I keep it next to me and I pick it up. And it gives you strength and it gives you a sense of wonder. And it connects you back to a very happy time. And it glows. If there are challenging clients in the corridor.

[Tim Ferriss]

For people who can't see that, that is a sword.

[Richard Taylor]

Yeah. Oh, sorry. Those that can't see it here, I'm showing all these visual aids because that's how I think drive.

[Tim Ferriss]

I'll drive people to the video.

[Richard Taylor]

But just held up. I just held up the 1.48 times larger than life size Sting that's carried by Elijah Wood at his scale. I likened it to teetering towards the edge of a precipice. There's probably a much better visual metaphor than this. And you do this frequently in one's life. The decision to start a family. The decision to buy your first home, or the home that spend the rest of your life in, like, the home that my wife and I bought way back on Meet the Feebles, right? The decision to X, Y and Z. But Peter Jackson offers this opportunity. And when he offered it, my wife and I, Tanya and I discussed with Peter. And we ultimately settled on doing the design for and the manufacturing of the armor, weapons, creatures, miniatures, special makeup effects and prosthetics. Like a five divisions, a very, very large body of work. And you teeter to the edge of the precipice. And as a human, just as the human animal that we are, you've got a decision. You either step back from the edge and let others take up the slack and do it for you, and you follow, or you choose to leap. And you either will then slam into the bottom of the cliff and make a mess with your guts and your brains everywhere, or you will actually arrest your fall Through a number of different mechanisms. Self belief, being the most important one, I have four very simple tenants that I operate by and four tenants that I try and operate our company by. And the first one is love of oneself. That doesn't mean that you're egotistical or believe that you're better than you are. But if you can't see in yourself your virtues, how the hell are you going to expect anyone else following you to see your virtues? Right? So love of oneself is the first of those four tenets. And there is mixed with that, as corny as it sounds, ignorance being your greatest ally. I think all of us operate to some degree where we are blinded by the love of what we do. Like Bertram Russell, if I've got the right person, has a lovely quote. Work is more fun than fun. And people that don't understand that struggle, even if you're in a low level position that you're not really enjoying, you can still make the people that you work with really fun. Right? I used to clean toilets on international airplanes, but man, the people I worked with. I put a cricket ball through the window of the international terminal because we were playing cricket out on the tarmac under the plains. You can turn anything into fun. So I had once again a very corny. And I couldn't think of something better at the time, but we needed 158 crew working for seven and a half years on 48,000 separate things to deliver those five divisions to the trilogy of movies. Our works are 98 to 99% of the films because our works in almost every image shot other than mountains with no one in it or et cetera. And you've got a inexperienced crew. You're highly inexperienced yourself, right? We'd done Hercules and Xena at the time, and we'd had a career of about eight, 10 years doing Peter's films. Peter, of course, is a inspiration in his own right and highly knowledgeable, so he's helping as well. I used to say, no matter how fine and how pale the thread that I give you, if you don't weave it with care into the tapestry, the tapestry will be in some way threadbare. What I'm talking about. That's sort of more of a silly poetic way to say you're only as good as your weakest link. And in our case, we literally were linking, right, handmade chainmail, 12 and a half million links over three and a half years. And chain mail is only as good as how well you glue the top link on your shoulder and whether the chainmail is going to fall off you. So Trying to get us collectively, myself and my wife and our team to believe that we could do it didn't require. Because there is a. I'm sure it exists in other countries, but it is a fundamental part of New Zealand. I think it's because we're a young nation. We're at the back quarters of the world a long way from marketplaces where you can buy components to fix your tractor. So there is this intense can do attitude that still exists today. Thankfully we hire people that come with that beautiful can do attitude and we were able to benefit and bottle that so significantly on those three films. And the overjoyed nature of knowing that you're trying to prove something, prove that New Zealand could do it, that we could stamp our mark on the world stage. That was really important to us. To do justice to Tolkien's writing was really important to us. To meet Peter Jackson's vision was really important. And to make sure that we had really good fun. That didn't mean that it wasn't brutally challenging. It was, but at no point in the seven and a half years did I ever think that I didn't want to be doing it. That was really a special part of that experience. Work is more fun than fun.

[Tim Ferriss]

What are the other tenets you mentioned?

[Richard Taylor]

4 Love of oneself, love of what you do, love of who you do it with and love of who you do it for. That is as a father of a family. Well, as a husband or partner to a loved one, a father or mother to a family, a president of a country, a CEO of a business. If you can't find those four tenets, obviously the first one, love of yourself, love of what you do. You've got to love being a parent. You've got to love being a lover, a husband, a wife, a partner. You have to love the people that you do it for. It is so easy to become cynical about your audience or your fans or your family or the person working above you. Right. But that's who you're trying to capture it up in, your passion for what you do. And you know, the other one's very obvious. So that's how I think of things, very simply. And that's after 30 plus years of working, it started to congeal that that's thinking about all these things that you might think about. That's the things that drive you forward. I think I've settled on those four simple and Try not to be a dickhead is the maybe the fifth. There are thousands of self help books. I've actually only read one of them. I can't remember the title even. But someone said to me once, you only need one page, a one page book on self help. And it's simply. And there's only one line. And it just says, just don't be a dickhead. Right. And if you put that against almost anything in life, it's actually correct if we understand collectively what being a dickhead means. And no doubt I fall foul of that and invariably am. Sometimes we all are. It's very hard to not be. But you try really hard not to be. Hey, Greg. Yeah, trying. Always trying. Have I answered your question well enough? I've sort of been a bit fringed around the outsides of it all.

[Tim Ferriss]

No, you did. I will have probably just one or two follow ups related to that. But before I get to that, you mentioned the can do attitude of a fairly remote country, Right. The resourcefulness that that engenders. And I'm wondering if there are any other advantages that you can think of of doing this. Whether it's the workshop or Lord of the Rings or the combination of the two in New Zealand. Are there advantages that you can think of?

[Richard Taylor]

Tim, when I'm talking, I'm talking about. We're the workshop. We were a small component of the overarching endeavor of making Lord of the Rings. Right. We're very proud of the piece we played and we did a lot on it. But the art department, the costuming department, the props department, the camera department, the grips department, the directing department, et cetera, et cetera, the miniatures. There was phenomenal number of people all focused on the same mission. And I've actually said in the past, Lord of the Rings wasn't made by a director. It wasn't made by a film studio and wasn't made by a film crew. It was made by a nation of people coming together in that moment to try and make Lord of the Rings in New Zealand for the world. That speaks to the phenomenal number of people that Peter and his producer drew into the collaboration of making Lord of the Rings.

[Tim Ferriss]

I mean, the government, the military, I mean, the whole country was bombing.

[Richard Taylor]

Our military, our tourism department. I think everyone felt you would have to have been pretty cynical at the time to have not felt a certain level of pride in what was Peter was trying to do in our country and get behind it. And a lot of people benefited because of it. The driving desire to that term punch above your weight. I don't specifically like that term, but that's a well used one that speaks to it. New Zealanders do have A burning desire to try and achieve great things, regardless of where we may come from and the scale of our country. That should not restrict you at all. And you only need to look at our sports teams to see that, whether it's our National Ballet, Orchestra, contemporary dance, poets, writers, painters, artists in general, never mind the film industry or the creative industries. We have technology companies in New Zealand that are competing with the best in the world. Rocket Lab comes to mind that are doing astounding things on a fraction of the budget. You know, the robots that we're building in our workshop right now, probably at a 500th to a thousandth of the investment cost of some of the robots that we're seeing online, but we're pulling it off. We're getting there slowly, but getting there with five people and, you know, the money that we can save from projects we're doing. It's that attitude, I think, that plays a big part of it. Peter Jackson mustn't be missed in this equation too. His self belief and his just sheer drive. I've never ever seen Peter quiver in uncertainty, to fluctuate in a sense of uncertainty that he isn't sure of what he's doing. That is an amazing thing to work around because if your leader's confident, then you know, and there's a lovely quote. The emperor will not remember you for your medals or your diplomas. He will only remember you for your scars. And I think there is a mentality of that very much in our country. You just got to knuckle down and do it right. Grit is a important component of in the journey, not the accolades at the end. It's the task of getting there that is seen as equal in accomplishment, as winning baubles.

[Tim Ferriss]

And now here are the bios for all the guests. My guest today is a dear friend. I've wanted to have him on the podcast for a very long time. Craig Mod. Craig Mod. He is a writer, photographer and walker. We'll talk about that a lot. Living in Tokyo and Kamakura, Japan. He is the author of Things Become Other Things and Kisa by Kissa K I S S A Don't worry about it, we'll get to it. He also writes the newsletters Rodin and Ridgeline and has contributed to the New York Times, the Atlantic, Wired and more. He has walked thousands of miles across Japan in every conceivable place. And since 2016 he has been co running walk in talks with Kevin Kelly, perhaps the most interesting man in the world. In various places around the world. The Cotswolds Northern Thailand, Bali, Southern China, Japan, Spain, which includes the Portuguese and French Caminos and much more. Today's episode is wide ranging and I had so much fun with this. We ended up discussing Craig's early life, his path to Japan, his struggles with self worth and alcoholism, and how he overcame both of them, creative development, his writing experiments, his initial experiences with walking and writing, and so much more. I really think you will get a lot out of this conversation. As I did, I took copious notes and I also decided to keep some of the behind the scenes banter before the interview in the recording that you're going to hear, which I thought might be fun. For shits and giggles. Just for the fun of it, why not? You can find craig [e-mail] that's the HQ for everything. Craigmod C-R-A-I-G m o d.com youm can find him on Instagram regmod and on bluesky as well. Craigmod.com Today my guest is Ev Williams and what a story he has. Ev is the co founder and Chairman of Mozi, a new social network that helps you connect in person with the people you care about most. Over the past 25 years Ev has co founded several companies that have helped shape the modern Internet including Blogger, Medium and Twitter. Ev is also the co founder of Obvious Ventures, an investment firm that focuses on world positive companies addressing major systemic problems. Ev grew up on a farm in Clarks, Nebraska, has two sons and lives mostly in the Bay Area. This particular episode, this conversation was recorded live in Austin, Texas at the Dig Nation relaunch. That's dignation show for the show itself. And that is where digg.com was relaunched. It was recently acquired by its original founder, my good friend Kevin Rose and Reddit co founder Alexis Ohanian, formerly arch Nemesis. But they have joined forces and invited me along for all the fun and surprises as they celebrated the relaunch. Go to digg.com and sign up to get early access when the invites go out. One more time. Dig.com that's-G.com you can find Mozi that is Ev's newest creation at Mozy App that's available on iOS right now. You can find [e-mail] and and you can find him on Twitter that is also known as XEV. Today I am interviewing two people I would consider decathletes of creativity. The first is Richard Taylor. He is co founder and Creative Lead at Weta Workshop which he runs with his wife and co Founder, Tanya Roger. WETA Workshop is a concept design studio and manufacturing facility that services the world's creative and entertainment industries. And what you'll see is just how much they do. Believe it or not, it started by them assembling things and making things on top of their bed. We'll get to that. They've been recognized with five Academy Awards, four BAFTA Awards, three THEA Awards and more than 30 other national and international accolades. Their practical and special effects have helped define the visual identities of some of the most recognizable franchises in film and television. You will know some of them, including the Lord of the Rings, Planet of the Apes, Superman, Mad Max, Thor, Megan and Love, Death and Robots. If you haven't seen Love, Death and Robots, check it out. There are some amazing, amazing shorts. In addition to that, they do a few other things. Get ready for this. What a workshop offers tourism and retail experiences, consumer products, an interactive studio, public sculptures and private commissions. They've also done augmented reality and video games and all sorts of things. Richard now focuses much of his time on their immersive experiences, which I've had the chance to experience firsthand. I recommend them very highly, such as the Theia Award winning Gallipoli, the Scale of Our War, WETA Workshop Unleashed and the giant atrium installation Aura Forest at Edge of the Sky. Next we have Greg Broadmoor. Greg is an artist and writer who has been part of the team at Widow Workshop for more than 20 years. His design and special effects credits include District 9, King Kong, Godzilla, the Adventures of Tintin and Avatar. And he is the creator of the satirical retro sci fi world of Dr. Grordbortz. Featuring a myriad of collectibles, a world touring art exhibition, four books and a game for Weta's pioneering spatial computing platform. Most recently, Greg built Weta's video game division and directed multiple Dr. G video games for Magic Leap. He is currently working on the graphic novel series One Path, set in a brutal prehistoric world where dinosaurs and cave women are locked in a grim battle for supremacy. So these two guys have their hands in a lot. They apply creativity to more things than I can count and they do it with incredible endurance. How do they do it? That's what we're going to explore. And as you listen to this or as you watch it, you're going to hear a lot of moving around as they pull things from their offices, from their workshops, from around where they're sitting. So it will sound quite hyperactive and I suppose that is totally appropriate given the nature of what we're discussing. So I'll Leave it at that. You can find weta [e-mail] us that's wetanz.com of course. And on Instagramtaworkshop. You can find Greg at gregbrodmore. That's B R O A D M o R E. Gregbrodmore.com and on Instagram, Gregbrodmore. Hey guys, this is Tim again. Just one more thing before you take off, and that is five Bullet Friday. Would you enjoy getting a short email from me every Friday that provides a little fun before the weekend? Between 1 and a half and 2 million people subscribe to my free newsletter, my super short newsletter called five Bullet Friday. Easy to sign up, easy to cancel. It is basically a half page that I send out every Friday to share the coolest things I found or discovered or have started exploring over that week. It's kind of like my diary of cool things. It often includes articles I'm reading, books I'm reading, albums, perhaps gadgets, gizmos, all sorts of tech tricks and so on that get sent to me by my friends, including a lot of podcast guests. And these strange, esoteric things end up in my field. And then I test them and then. And then I share them with you. So if that sounds fun, again, it's very short. A little tiny bite of goodness before you head off for the weekend. Something to think about. If you'd like to try it out, just go to Tim Blog Friday, type that into your browser. Tim Blog Friday. Drop in your email and you'll get the very next one. Thanks for listening.