← The Tim Ferriss Show
The Tim Ferriss Show
#854: Tish Rabe — 200+ Children's Books, Getting Picked for Dr. Seuss, Lessons from Early Sesame Street, How to Write 300+ Songs, and More
01:27:22
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- [00:00]
Tim Ferriss
Optimal minimalism.
- [00:02]
Tish Rabe
At this altitude, I can run flat.
- [00:04]
Tim Ferriss
Out for a half mile before my hands start shaking. Can I answer your personal question now?
- [00:09]
Tish Rabe
It is in a perfect time. I'm a cybernetic organism.
- [00:14]
Tim Ferriss
Living tissue over a metal endoskeleton.
- [00:18]
Tish Rabe
Ferris show. Tish.
- [00:25]
Tim Ferriss
It is lovely to finally connect. I've really been looking forward to this. And thanks to my old friend and your new friend, Elan Lee, here we are. We made it happen. Thank you for making the time.
- [00:37]
Tish Rabe
Really excited to be meeting you.
- [00:40]
Tim Ferriss
And I don't even know where to start. We could start with the 200 children's books, more than 11 million copies sold. We could start with 300 children's songs. But maybe we can, I suppose, start the journey with what you studied in college. Were you always intending to end up where you are now or where did the story start?
- [01:05]
Tish Rabe
Where did the story start? As a matter of fact, I did not start out to be a children's book author. I started out to be an opera singer. I went to college to be an opera singer. So that was my plan. I had a great plan in high school. I tell the kids I talk to a lot, that I had two things I loved. I loved to sing and I loved to write. So all through high school I was, are you going to be a singer or a writer? A writer or singer? And finally I had to apply to college and I really knew in my heart I wanted to be a singer. So I have a four year degree in opera with a minor in jazz. And everyone always asks me, so how did you end up, you know, being a singer and ending up being an author? And the very short story is, I came to New York and I was auditioning everywhere and my high school music teacher got a job as assistant music director on sesame Street Season 2. And I went to meet him and told him I was auditioning and he asked me if I could type. And I said, yes, I can sing and I can type. So I got a job as music production assistant at Sesame street. And all I wanted to do was sing with Jim Henson's Muppets. And my first job was hiring the jingle singers in Manhattan to sing with Jim Henson's Muppets. So I sang all day. I sang when I typed and I sang when I filed and I sang when I answered the phone. Sesame street, may I help you? Well, after a year, everybody was so tired of listening to me sing all the time that they said, would you like to sing on Sesame street with the Muppets? And I was, yes. So I sang with the Muppets. I sang on the show, I sang on the albums, and I sang on the specials. So I sang on everything. And it was just so much fun. And my first big break was I sang with Oscar. I love trash Everything dirty and dingy and dusty Anything ragged and rotten and rusty oh, I love, I love, I love trash. And I don't know that my parents ever got over it, tell you the truth.
- [03:35]
Tim Ferriss
The big break. Well, let me ask you. When you got the job on Sesame street, when you first got that job, what did it feel like at that time for season two? And I'll tell you something that I haven't told many people, which is I have a season one staff jacket from Sesame street, because a friend of my family who lived nearby when I was growing up worked on Sesame street in the early days. So I grew up going next door as a little kid, hearing her stories, looking at her Emmys. And my love affair with Sesame street, in a way, began before I ever started watching it. So I have a long history. What did it feel like to be there in the earliest stages of Sesame Street? What was the vibe like?
- [04:28]
Tish Rabe
The environment, first of all, the most creative environment anyone could ever be in. Basically, the John Stone, who was executive producer, and Jim Henson and all the puppeteers and all the Muppeteers and everybody were so creative. They just made stuff up all day long. Another interesting thing to share is that they were very worried that this show was going to bomb. You know, a six foot yellow bird, you know, a monster that only eats cookies, a grouch in a trash can, a multiracial cast. How do we think this is going to go in 1969 or whatever? And Joan Cooney, Joan Ganz Cooney, who created the whole thing, just let them be creative. You know, whatever you guys want to do, go ahead. And it was so much fun to be a part of it. And I believe in my heart that my background on Sesame street is how I can do what I do today, because I was enveloped with this every single day. One of the interesting things that happened was Sesame street. They needed books, they needed toys, they needed merchandise. Who knew this was gonna be a massive hit? And they literally asked the staff if they had ideas for books. And I, you know, courage. Oh, what the heck. I got nothing to lose. I'll go down and, you know, try. And I went down to the book department and I told them about when I was a little girl and I broke my great grandmother's teapot and it shattered into a million pieces. And my mother came in and saw the broken glass. And she said, I'm not mad or anything. I love you more than any teapot. And I went down and I pitched my idea to Sesame Street Books. And it's your classic, right? You go pour your heart out on this story. And there's dead silence. I mean, nobody moved. I'm not. So I'm standing there going, okay, that went well. And from the back of the room, the editor for Sesame Street Books said, could you make it a story for Bert? And my very first book. Here it is, Bert, look at that. And the broken teapot. It's out of print, but I have a few. And in this book, Bert breaks David's favorite teapot, spends the whole book trying to get it fixed. And in the end, David says he's afraid David's not going to be his friend anymore because he broke his favorite teapot. And David says, you'll always be my friend and can you help me in my restaurant next week? And at the time, it got just great awards and letters because it's easy to have things be about stuff. And the message, obviously was that their friendship meant more than this teapot. But that was book one.
- [07:28]
Tim Ferriss
So let me peel back the layers a little bit on what you mentioned. This wellspring of creativity just being steeped, I suppose, to borrow the tea steeped in this creativity. What did that look like? Were people just ad libbing all the time, like Robin Williams times? The number of staff? Were there meetings different? What did that actually look like in practice when you went to work?
- [07:55]
Tish Rabe
It was one of the first TV shows that had educational research behind it. So we had topics we were going to try to teach every single season. There was a notebook like this thick with. What are the, you know, what are we trying to teach kids? You know, obviously numbers and letters, but compassion and sorting things by shapes and whatever it was. And then you would watch the writers just come up with stuff, and it was absolutely fascinating. And they just kind of made stuff up as they went along. But the big thing I learned from the Sesame street writers, and it has saved me many, many, many times, is that they wrote the endings first. So they used to look at Abbott and Costello movies and Marx Brothers movies, and they looked at everything and they used to tell me, okay, Abbott and Costello are pushing a piano across a bridge in the jungle with a gorilla coming across the bridge at them. How did they get there? So as a children's book author, I always write my last page first. So in my I believe Bunny Books, my inspirational books. One of them ends with just like the I believe bunny. You may get a surprise. You can make a difference, even a bunny your size. Then I wrote the whole book about how he helps his friend who can't swim and blah, blah, blah, blah, and then end at that page. It's a very important page in children's books because it is the last page they hear before the book is shut. Go to sleep, take a nap, go out to play, whatever. And I always write the last page first. Always.
- [09:43]
Tim Ferriss
Did you have much interaction with Jim Henson?
- [09:46]
Tish Rabe
Yes, I worked for Jim for years. And somebody said once he was a gentle giant with a mind of steel. You know, he's a great businessman, but so creative and so nice to all of us because we were low in the totem pole. I mean, we were the production assistants. And he just worked and worked and worked and worked, and he would do a Sesame street day and then fly to London and do the Muppet show and then fly back. You know, he just worked all the time. But he was just a very, very nice to me, always.
- [10:19]
Tim Ferriss
Did you learn anything about him or how he managed? Anything that stands out that distinguishes him, aside from just being a man possessed with his work, which certainly doesn't surprise me. Right.
- [10:35]
Tish Rabe
I think the thing was, you could just watch his creative mind, the creative minds on Sesame Street. When I was there, something would happen and they would just make something else up, you know, and the sense of humor and the lightness of what they were doing. And it was almost like, oh, and by the way, we're teaching kids. You know what I mean? Oh, yeah. Okay. The other thing they did, which was really something, is they were one of the first to do double level humor. So they wrote stuff that was funny for kids, but had all kinds of stuff in it for adults. Because all these studies had done. If parents watched the show with their children, the kids learned more because the parents were there to help them and that kind of thing. And, you know, some of the early children's shows, you know, no parent would be caught dead sitting in front of. But Sesame street was so nuts that everybody loved it. And that really, really made a difference. Big difference.
- [11:36]
Tim Ferriss
Yeah, the double level humor.
- [11:37]
Tish Rabe
Yeah.
- [11:38]
Tim Ferriss
I remember first being struck by that. Not to make my side of the story all about Robin Williams, but was Robin Williams and the songs in the first Disney animated feature of Aladdin, and just how many levels there were to that and how effective it was because parents would go back, take their kids to the theater multiple times. In this case, obviously, Watch the television show. How did your music training, if it did help what you ended up doing, not only at Sesame street, but afterwards? And I suppose I'm just asking if some of the tools or sensitivities that you developed actually ended up being assets as you moved forward with these other supposedly separate art forms.
- [12:28]
Tish Rabe
Well, one thing that I used to do, the songs were all pre recorded. And so the puppeteers would go into and record their songs in advance. So now you're Big Bird, right? And you're going to sing the song on Sesame Street. But they are doing their dialogue, so how are they going to know when the song starts? So I would stand next to one of the cameras and count them off. So measure 1, 2, 3, 4. And then they would sing. So Carol Spinney could see me enough to know that when I pointed to him, he had to sing the song, the prerecorded song, you know, move the costume, you know, move the puppet. So he was singing the song. And the first two times I did it, I was scared to death. I was only 21. I think this is going to be the one. I'm going to go, 1, 2, 3, and start him. And it's going to be the wrong place, you know. Oh, no. But that's really where my musical training came in. And also we used to sing the jingle singers in New York in the 70s. Literally, you'd come into a session, to this day, I'll never forget it. And literally they would sing it through. Once we are at the sound of the sound of the count, count, count counts down, you know, four part harmony. And they look at each other, say, you take the root, I'll take the third. Tish, you take the fifth. And then somebody do the octave. One, two, three, go. And I remember holding on with a thread to this thing. And the other thing that I love about those early days, back then we had orchestras. So the Christmas. I'll never forget this, the Christmas special, full orchestra, I mean, violins. And Carol Spinney was trying to sing I Hate Christmas. So he's behind this microphone and he's going, I hate Christmas. I hey, Chris. I hate. Finally they said, let's take a break, everybody. All the whole orchestra. Let's take 10 minutes. Everybody. Just give him a minute. And I was standing next to him when he moved over and opened the case and took Oscar out of the case. I was standing right next to him. I had the music and everything. So everybody comes back, all these violins and cellos and Claire and Ezra, and they started it again. And Carol moved over and Oscar sang I Ha. Christmas. Perfect. I never got over it. I was like, whoa. But this kind of stuff went on every single day, all day.
- [15:12]
Tim Ferriss
Just a quick thanks to our sponsors and we'll be right back to the show. What many of you may not know is that I actually run two private invite only communities for some of my projects. The no Book, which eventually will come out after God knows how long, and Coyote the card game. And the feedback from those groups has been absolutely invaluable. Moreover, perhaps most important, the connections that members have made and the interactions have been just a joy to behold. It's been so much fun. And I generally view communities as, as headache after headache after headache. Way back in the day with like V bulletin and whatever. Not to slam those guys, but man oh man, running communities can be a pain in the ass. And in this case, it's been easy. Why? Well, both of them are built on Circle, this episode's sponsor. And before committing to using Circle, I did so much homework. I asked you all on social media, talked to dozens of creators, pressure tested alternatives, talked to all sorts of people on the phone, and. And Circle is where I landed. Circle quietly backs some of the most popular communities online, run by folks like Kevin Rose, my buddy Dr. Becky from Good Inside, Ali Abdaal, Jay Shetty, Pat Flynn, and many others, including some giants I can't mention here. But it doesn't need to be giant. My two communities are maybe 100, 150 people a piece. They're not gigantic. If you run an online community, a membership or a course business, Circle makes it easy to build a professional home for your audience. Events, courses, payments, custom branded apps, all in one place. And also once I had my first one set up for the notebook to spin up another one for Coyote, the card game. It took minutes. It was so, so fast. And as you might have noticed, things are getting pretty squirrely out there on the Internet. We're moving from content businesses to connection businesses. People want connection. They want to know you're real. They want accountability, real progress. And communities are the most effective way that I have found to make that happen. So check it out. Go to Circle so tim to get $1000 off circle plus exclusively for you guys, listeners for a limited time. Check it out. You can also look at other options at Circle so Tim, back in the day, this was 2004, maybe I had someone approach me in a coffee shop and say, g' day, mate. And introduce himself. Who was that? It turned out to be the founder of AG1. Believe it or not way back in the day and people often what has survived. After 20 plus years of testing every supplement under the sun, just about what actually has stayed in the rotation in the toolbox. This episode sponsor AG1 is at the top of that very very short list. I started using it close to 15 years ago when it was still called athletic greens. I put it in the four hour body, didn't get paid to put it in there and it's outlasted almost everything else that I've tried. One scoop covers your nutritional bases, fills the gaps. You want to eat good food, of course, but 75 plus ingredients including probiotics, diet B vitamins and whole food nutrients act as in my opinion, pretty cheap nutritional insurance. I take it first thing every morning with cold water and at this point it's automatic, like brushing my teeth. If you're looking for one simple daily habit that supports gut health and fills common nutrient gaps, this is where I'd start. Right now. New subscribers to AG1 get a free welcome kit worth $87 including AG1 and AGZ travel packs. That's free sleep. It's actually great in vitamin D3 plus K2. So that's a whole bunch of free stuff worth 87 bucks. So check it out, take a look. Visit drinkag1.com Tim and that's the number one. So drinkag1.com Tim to check it out one more time. That's drinkag1.com Tim and when you were working on Sesame street, what was the reaction from people at the time when they would ask you what do you do? I don't know the magnitude of the success when you joined versus later on in your time there. But just to paint a picture for people, because there are, I'm sure some older folks who listen to this podcast who maybe even had really, really early exposure or maybe are much older and had really young kids who were exposed to Sesame Street. Then there are some in the middle who certainly remember watching it, and then there are some who have probably never seen it. What was the reaction that you would get from people when you told them what you did for a living?
- [19:39]
Tish Rabe
Well, it's funny when I tell the story that I got to New York and I was auditioning and it was going okay. I would get a jingle here, a jingle there, but I couldn't support myself. And I am convinced. I went home one Thanksgiving to my hometown. I'm from Needham, Massachusetts, outside of Boston. And I got, literally got out of the car and my mother told me that she'd read that my high school music teacher had gotten this job, and she said, you got to get all dressed up and you got to go see him. And he hasn't seen you since you left high school four years ago. You've been in college. And I have to say, it took a lot of guts for me to go and come see him again. And, you know, he'd buy me lunch once a week because I wasn't eating, you know, the whole thing. And I think when I look back, it was timing and luck to a lot of extent, because would I ever have walked into Sesame Workshop and said, you know, do you have a job for me? No. I was convinced I was going to be a star. It was just a matter of time singing. And back then, I'm sure they still do this. You would audition and they would literally let you sing nine notes. So you go Oklahoma, where the wind goes. Thank you. Really, I am dead serious. Anyone who auditioned, and that was it, and you were there and you had your music and everything. So the fact that I actually was able to get a job in music on a television series was just magic stuff.
- [21:14]
Tim Ferriss
And was the public's reception at the time. So you have this sort of confluence of factors and synchronicities that get you in the door. You still have to prove your mettle, so you get the job. And was it just the bell of the ball at that point, Sesame street, or was it still in kind of growth mode? So some people knew it, but not all people. Where was the public awareness of Sesame street when you joined?
- [21:41]
Tish Rabe
Well, I think when I started, it was just really taking off literally. And I don't think anyone recognized that it was, you know, as I said, they were sure how it was going to go. And something a lot of people don't know about Sesame street is it was originally created to help every child learn their Alphabet and their numbers. Because there was a disparity between kids who had came into kindergarten knowing their letters and their Alphabet and the kids who came in not knowing and started behind before they even got started. I don't think anyone really realized that this was going to have such a huge impact because kids then were going into school and singing the number song. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 alligators went to the alligator picnic okay, you know, that's. This went on all day long, you know, so the kids. Now there was more of an even playing field when the kids all hit kindergarten. And that was. People just didn't see it coming. And it was true.
- [22:48]
Tim Ferriss
What happened that led You From Sesame street to all that Followed.
- [22:53]
Tish Rabe
All that followed, yes, exactly. Well, among my other things that happened is I was at Sesame street and as soon as I started writing my Burton the Broken Teapot book, I just kept writing and writing and writing and writing.
- [23:08]
Tim Ferriss
And this is just on your own time or was it all for Scholastic?
- [23:11]
Tish Rabe
Well, people started hiring me. I wrote for Scholastic and I wrote for Houghton Mifflin and Random House and everybody.
- [23:18]
Tim Ferriss
How did you make those contacts?
- [23:20]
Tish Rabe
So I was working at Sesame street and then I produced Big Bird in China. I was part of the crew that went to China with Big bird in China.
- [23:29]
Tim Ferriss
1982, something like that.
- [23:31]
Tish Rabe
82, correct. And then I was senior producer for 321-contact, which was another whole story. And then I just kept writing and writing and writing and writing. And I ended up at Random House as their director of video. This was back in the VHS days. And once I was in there directing all the videos back in the day, they used to just take the artwork for the book and move the camera around. It was called Animatics. And I produced all the music and all the voiceovers and everything for that. But now I'm in Random House, so I'm an author, proven author, and I happen to work there. So in the hallway they'd say, you know, could you write a book about butterflies? Sure. When do you need it? You know? So it was kind of a two way thing. I was working as a producer, a television producer. I also, with 321-contact. That's when I started writing songs. Because 321contact was a science series. And it took more time for us to explain to other composers what we needed than just to write it in house. So I wrote songs about electricity and mammals and, you know, anything you needed. My favorite, my favorite was producers would come into my office and I'd say, we need a song. I said, okay, okay, what's it about? Never forget this. And the guy producer looks at me and says, the gestation period of different animals. I said, it's singing for me already. The gestation period. So I wrote a song called I'm Waiting for My Baby. I'm waiting for my baby Feels like a long, long time. And we just took stock footage of chimpanzee and an elephant and chironed. That was back in the day. We called it chironing. The amount of time, you know, elephant, two years, whatever it was, to have a baby. And then at the end it was. And baby, you were worth the wait, you know, so. So we made stuff up. And of Course, happily for me, I sang a lot of it, so that was fun, too.
- [25:41]
Tim Ferriss
If we open the hood and look at the workings of making a song.
- [25:47]
Tish Rabe
Yes.
- [25:48]
Tim Ferriss
What does that look like for you? When they are successful, do they have common patterns where you start with something and then there's second, there's something else, and third, there's something else. What did that process end up looking like for you?
- [26:03]
Tish Rabe
Well, the first thing I did back and have done a lot of is perfect example, you know, what's the science? What are we trying to teach a child in this song? And then I always make sure that I have a verse and then what we call a B section. So the song goes somewhere and then comes back. That's always very, very key.
- [26:25]
Tim Ferriss
So you decide on those two pieces first. The first.
- [26:27]
Tish Rabe
And what are we trying to. Cord of wood. That's a perfect example. I wrote a whole section.
- [26:31]
Tim Ferriss
Yeah, I would love an example. It would be great.
- [26:33]
Tish Rabe
Cord of wood. I can only remember how it goes, but a cord of wood, you could find out how many toothpicks are there in a cord of wood. How many picnic tables can you make out of one quart of wood? So you got to figure out what you're putting in for the science and how you're going to make it rhyme. And, you know, that kind of stuff. It certainly helped me that I had been a singer so long that I was so used to singing rhyming lyrics. One quick thing to share, because very few people know this. While I was at Sesame street, the executive producer asked Joe Raposo. Joe Raposo wrote the theme, and he wrote all the big songs. And he said, I wonder how Kermit feels. Have you ever thought of how Kermit feels living on this crazy street with all these nutty people? And Joe Raposo went home and wrote Being Green. But the big thing about Being Green is all of us who write songs for kids have end rhyme. Sunny day Sweeping the clouds away on my way to wear this sweet can you tell you how to get. How to get to Sesame Street? Everything rhymes at the end, right? Being Green, there's not one rhyme. It's not easy being green. Having to spend each day the color of the leaves when it would be nicer to be red or yellow or gold or something much more colorful like that. It's totally talking. There's not a rhyme in it. And he came into the office and sang it for the first time, and people were thunderstruck. And of course, it became a mega hit. So, yeah, I just started writing songs about Everything.
- [28:11]
Tim Ferriss
What possessed him to break the mold? Had that been done before or was that something that struck him? I'm wondering if, you know, the backstory of why.
- [28:23]
Tish Rabe
I always felt that this is long time memories of these things. But I sort of felt like maybe one of the writers kind of challenged him. You know, there's only one other song any of us could find and it's moonlight in Vermont also doesn't rhyme at all. But I don't know if someone said, yeah, why don't you write about how Kermit feels about living on this street and not have end rhymes? I don't know. I don't know if anyone challenged him or he just went home and said, I mean, the man was a genius. Whether he went home and just said, you know, I have an idea. I got nothing else to do this afternoon. I'll try to write a song that doesn't rhyme. I don't know. But they'll say one thing that was really, really amazing is basically Joan Ganz Cooney told them all she had faith in them. Just do it. Just go. So it was so free flowing that people just made stuff up. I have a favorite song. People always ask me my favorite song that I did not write. It's called I Just Adore four. I just adore for the number. For me, I just adore for its, let's see, less than five, more than three. And the other thing is the lyrics were so grown up, right? I mean, that's hilarious. But the kids, you know, just ate it up. They just understood it. They understood what that meant, you know, so it was wonderful because every day you went into work, you had no idea who's going to come up with what today.
- [30:00]
Tim Ferriss
How many drafts or versions made the cut. I'm wondering in such a free flowing creative environment where you're allowed to throw anything against the wall and you're given permission, people say they believe in you. My assumption would be that you come up with a lot of ideas and not all of them work.
- [30:22]
Tish Rabe
That's right.
- [30:22]
Tim Ferriss
So I'm wondering how many versions you might come up with before you end up with one that makes it to air.
- [30:31]
Tish Rabe
The real challenge on that show was the curriculum was king. So, yeah, you could go off and write a story about your lamp. Whatever the curriculum of the day was today, it's seasons or cooperation or, I don't know, whatever they were, that was true. They had to get that by that team. And it was a whole team. The other thing they did a lot of is focus groups. They played Stuff for kids. And this was groundbreaking at the time. And they tell stories about how, you know, Oscar was originally orange and the kids didn't really like it, whatever it is, you know, they changed stuff. So although it looked easy, there was a lot of background on what they could do and not do the focus groups.
- [31:16]
Tim Ferriss
I mean, that does sound really innovative for the day, especially with kids. But I imagine if you're trying to sell shampoo and you've got Bob, the adult in your focus group, you can be like, bob, how much would you spend to buy perched shampoo or whatever it might be? And Bob can give you an answer. What types of reactions or feedback were they looking for when they tested?
- [31:40]
Tish Rabe
It was great. They wanted to know things like, did the kids walk away understanding that Ab Kadevi is A, B, C, D, E, F. Yeah, A, B, C, D, E, G, H, I, whatever, you know, because they always wanted to pay attention to the fact that if they made it too sophisticated, the kids would be lost. That's a very fine line because by doing the double level humor like I just adore 4 Genius Joe Bailey wrote that one. That they didn't leave the kids lost because that's not. Was not the point, you know, the point was to teach them and get them ready for school curriculum.
- [32:17]
Tim Ferriss
Curriculum number one. There's a question that I could ask about songwriting, but I could also ask it about book writing. So could you explain how Dr. Seuss enters the picture?
- [32:30]
Tish Rabe
So as the years went by, I kept, as I said, writing for everybody. Never turned down a book offer. We need scholastic. We need a book on butterflies in a week. And I'll go, okay, a week. You know, it's like, how long is that going to take me? You know, how much am I going to earn an hour? You know, whatever it was. But wrote and wrote and wrote and wrote. And in 1991, I always go by how old my kids were. I guess they were like three and four. I submitted a rhyming book to Random House. I was there. I was the senior producer for home video. I was singing on all their TV stuff and I was singing on VHS's for them. Anyway, I was right there and I sent in a manuscript for a book. Morris Auroras was a brachiosaurus who had the best voice in the dinosaur chorus. He liked to play tennis and swim in the sea, but mostly he liked to eat fresh broccoli. Okie dokie. And the end of that one was. So his friends tried to get him to eat something else. And he said, they've got his friends go, broccoli's fine. It's got color and crunch. But you eat it for breakfast and dinner and lunch. So you talk them into eating something else. And the last line is, so one thing is true and you cannot deny it. Like it or not, you won't know till you try it. Fine, type it up. Walk down to the book department at Random House, hand it to the book department and hear nothing. This is. And I tell the kids, this is before texting, voicemail. You know, we're just using payphones at this point. And I hear a thing. So I go, that didn't really work, but okay. So I finally get my courage up and I call and I finally get somebody on the phone in that division and I say, tell them who I am. And oh, oh. She said, we were supposed to call you. I said, well, nobody called me. I said, we're sitting right here, but nobody called me. And she said, okay, I'll never forget it. She said, I have bad news and I have good news. What would you like to hear first? And I said, well, I'll take the bad news. And she said, we cannot publish Moris Aurora's Brachiosaurus because we are the rhyming home of Dr. Seuss. Okay, all right. However, she said, how would you like to write a new series for Dr. Seuss? Sure. You never say no, never turn down a freelance tab. And they literally handed me Dr. Seuss, not me. Dr. Seuss wanted to write a series of books for kids about science, in rhyme, for early readers, 4 to 7 year olds, and died before he could finish the first one. So they handed me a stack of research on mammals, a huge stack of research on birds. They said, we are so far behind with this because we've been trying to find someone who can write in his rhythm and his rhyme scheme. And Morris Auroras Brachiosaurus was both, thank goodness. And they said, can you have two books ready in four months? And I carried all this stuff home and I went, well, okay. And I just started writing as a camel, a mammal, and fine feathered friends. And I never stopped after that.
- [35:56]
Tim Ferriss
What an incredible opportunity. I mean, talk about just the right ingredients at the right time, and my brain will not let it go unless I ask. So the Morris Aurorus still think this sounds like a great book, but that couldn't fly because Dr. Seuss basically had exclusivity on that nature of rhyming book.
- [36:19]
Tish Rabe
For Random House.
- [36:20]
Tim Ferriss
Yes, for Random House. For Random House.
- [36:21]
Tish Rabe
And he. Not only did he write exclusively for Random House, but He created the Beginner book series, which other authors wrote. Also wrote. So he was head of the whole thing. And one thing to share about him, which is, and there are many authors that do this, but he was an author illustrator. And I'm clear to tell everybody I write the words, but I do not draw the pictures. And I had heard I missed meeting him by one year. But they used to tell me that he would come in with a brand new book, let's say Horton hears a who, whatever. And literally, art directors and the editors at Random House did not have to do anything. They didn't have to fix it. They didn't have to tell him to fix that elephant. They didn't have to do anything. They were so perfect when he showed up with them. So that was just as always, amazing that he could do both. I actually never spoke to him, but I spoke to his widow, Audrey Geisel, and she called me because to this day, I could never forget it. She called me, I felt like on the phone, I couldn't believe I was actually talking to her. And she said, do you remember when, years ago in the 50s, they did the study where they had pregnant moms talk to their babies and sing to their babies? And when the babies were born, they recognized, and the dads too, they recognized the voices and they waved their little hands and their eyes blinked and stuff. And what they used on the study was they all read the Cat in the Hat, the original Cat in the Hat book. So here we are, it's 2008, I think. Audrey Geisler called me and said, could I read all 41 of Ted Geisel's Dr. Seuss books and write a book with references to all of them? And she wanted it called oh, baby, the places you'll go to be read in utero? I'm sitting there going, okay, sure, la. So I went and read all of them. Orton, here's a who. If I ran the zoo, if I ran the circus, the whole, you know, Yertle the turtle, Fidwick the moose. I read them all and I wrote, oh, baby, the places you'll go and turned it in. And I love this story because by then my kids were in middle school, I think, and I was going to pick them up from school. And I had my car keys in my hand. My phone rang. It's Random House. They said, we are sending the files to the printer for oh baby, the places you'll go. We need a bio from you really short, and it has to be funny and we need it right now. So I just said, you gotta give me two minutes. And I hung up the phone. Never forget it. And all of a sudden I thought, oh, wow. And I called them right back, and I said, tishrabi's a mom who thinks that it's cool to be home rhyming rhymes while her kids are at school. And they went bananas. They're like, done. Okay, Just make this stuff up. It's what I do all day. I don't. And oh, baby, the Places you'll Go is the bestseller Flies off the shelf so, oh, baby, the places you'll go.
- [39:45]
Tim Ferriss
Oh, baby, the places you'll go and.
- [39:46]
Tish Rabe
You know, the other thing. Just real quick about that. I am very careful to say to everyone, you do not have to have kids to write for kids. Many, many, many fabulous authors did not. However, the last page of oh, Baby, the Places yous'll Go, I don't even know who drew it, because I don't think Ted drew it. But there's a little pregnant mom, Susan. Little pregnant mom sitting there, you know, And I had two kids. I have a son and a daughter. And at the end, I wrote, it's a scrumptious world and it's ready to greet you. And as for myself, well, I can't wait to meet you. And I really have to say, I think if I'd never had kids, I don't know that I would have come up with that. That's the last page in this bestselling book, but it just flew off the shelves. Still does.
- [40:39]
Tim Ferriss
So when you got that first assignment, here you go. Pile of research on birds. Pile of research on. Fill in the blank. Couple of questions related to that so you can tackle whichever one you'd like to tackle. Okay, so one question is, how on earth do you pick what to include out of these many, many stacks? Because you have to be really selective. The other question is, what guardrails rules do they give you to keep you within the universe and tone and feel of Dr. Seuss?
- [41:14]
Tish Rabe
Well, a couple of things. The first thing about what to put in the book. They did the research for me for the first two books. But for all the many, many books I wrote after that, I did my own research. And what I did that really saved me and surprises a lot of people is I went to the children's department in the local library and pulled everything they had on the topic because already it's not in rhyme. Fine. But it's already been simplified. So I would get a spiral notebook for every book and write and write and write. And write the facts about space, the facts about insects, of which I knew nothing, and get them all written down and then figure out if anything popped as a rhyming potential word. One of my very proudest was when birds want to go on a winter vacation, they all take a trip and they call it migration. Because at one point I was writing down that birds migrate and migration. I thought, oh, vacation, you know, so that was one thing. And as far as guardrail. So there are two kinds of rhyming in children's books. And migration and vacation is perfect. Susan rhyme, farm and barn is what they call a slant rhyme. It's close, but it's not a pure rhyme. Dr. Seuss insisted on two things. The rhythm had to be perfect. On the 15th of May in the jungle of Noule, Horton the elephant sat in the pool. Doesn't vary. It never varies. And the end rhymes are pure. Something Ted did and I did as well is if he was in trouble for a rhyme, he made up a word. So, you know, in the sleep book, one of my favorites is have you met the van vlecks? Or something like that. When they sleep, they yawn so wide you can see down their necks, you know. So he made up the vlex. So in my book, oh, the pets you can get. Oh, the pets you can get takes place in gerplets, where they know quite a bit about caring for pets. So I made up verplets to homage to Ted, because when you're in trouble, it makes sense. That's what he did.
- [43:35]
Tim Ferriss
It's a clever fix. And that became his trademark or one of his trademarks.
- [43:39]
Tish Rabe
I mean, it was genius. I mean, he just made this stuff up all the time. So those were the two things I had to get what the facts were for the books. Keep it simple, make stuff that rhymes the kids. And what really works well about rhyme is there are kids that would not have ever known what the word migration meant, but they loved the rhyme and they remembered the rhyme. So it's a very, very successful. After that, every single one of my books rhymes because it works.
- [44:09]
Tim Ferriss
It is their first exposure to a mnemonic device, right?
- [44:14]
Tish Rabe
Oh, I see it.
- [44:14]
Tim Ferriss
And I've done. I mean, I think you would blow me out of the water. I have so many questions about how your mind works, But I did a bunch of cognitive testing recently with a pretty well vetted, studied battery of different tests. And I'm 48, but I aged 20. Now, the only reason I age 20 is because I have these mnemonic devices. I've trained myself to be able to do it. And rhyme is a fantastic in some ways instinctive example of that. Have you always had a mind for rhyming or is that a trained muscle? And also your recall, I mean, good lord, you have just incredible recall. Have you always been that way or are there people in your family like that?
- [44:59]
Tish Rabe
It's interesting because I had a phenomenal English teacher in high school. High school for me, Needham High School, Needham, Massachusetts. Not only did my music director end up getting me my first job in New York, but my Mr. Allen, my English teacher was phenomenal. And what he used to have us do is write poems, sonnets, we wrote plays. And it helped me understand the format and also how to figure out end rhyme and limericks. I have a book that is still not published. I think I'm going to end up publishing it myself. But I sort of built on the Morris Auroras book and I wrote a whole book for him, three actually for Nickelodeon that are in limerick rhyme. You know, have you met Morris? And I changed him to an oopsasaurus because he's kind of clumsy with a 12 foot tail. But anyway, have you met Morris? He's an oopsasaurus, a dinosaur if you can't guess. But sometimes he bumps things and sometimes he thumps things and sometimes he makes a big mess. So the entire book's in Limerick Rye. But yes, that background. And I am sincere saying that I was really torn between majoring in English in college and being a writer or a singer. I'm very happy I decided to be a singer because now I can do both.
- [46:27]
Tim Ferriss
Just a quick thanks to one of our sponsors and we'll be right back to the show. As many of you know, for the last few years I've been sleeping on a midnight luxe mattress from today's sponsor, Helix Sleep. I also have one in the guest bedroom downstairs. And feedback from friends has always been fantastic. It's something they comment on without any prompting from me whatsoever. I also recently had a chance to test the Helix Sunset Elite. The Sunset Elite delivers exceptional comfort while putting the right support in the right spots. It is made with five tailored foam layers including a base layer with full perimeter zoned lumbar support right where I need it and middle layers with premium foam and microcoils that create a soft contouring feel. Helix offers a 100 night sleep trial, fast free shipping and a 15 year warranty. So check it all out. And now you can get 27% off anything on their website. So site wise, so just go to helixsleep.com Tim one more time. Helixsleep.com Tim with Helix Better sleep starts now. So do you think the ability to construct rhyme came from that education and the practice in the English class? Or do you just have the equivalent of some type of perfect pitch for rhyming out of the box? What do you think?
- [47:49]
Tish Rabe
I will tell you, this is funny because when I first started, my husband bought me a computer program that was called A Million Gazillion rhymes. Seriously. And I would sit there all day long and type the word in. What rhymes with antenna? You know, anything? Hello. Then after. Over the years, I have gotten to the point where now I just know what they rhyme. But speaking of mnemonics, I think you'll get a kick out of this. This is the page in my best selling solar system book. Dr. Seuss, right?
- [48:20]
Tim Ferriss
All about our solar system.
- [48:21]
Tish Rabe
All about our solar system. So things are going fine and I write this mnemonic. You've seen all the planets. Now here is a trick to remember their names and remember them quick. And I write the whole thing. Mallory, Valerie Emily Meatzas just served up 999 pizzas. So, so far so good. Except pizza stood for Pluto. So I get a call from Random House, Pluto has been demoted. And I'm like, what? I'm on the phone and they said, can you fix this? But we can't get the illustrator to change the art. So Emily here. Valerie. What did her name? Mallory. Valerie Emily Mesas was holding pizzas. So I'm like, okay. So I changed it to Mallory, Valerie Emily Mickels just showed us 999 nickels. And all the art guy had to do was change the pizza boxes to nickels. Saved. But I'm like, what? What do you mean, Pluto? Give me a break.
- [49:32]
Tim Ferriss
I mean, seriously, come on, guys.
- [49:35]
Tish Rabe
Planets to eight. I'm not prepared for this. So this kind of stuff goes on all day. This is what I do for a living. But it is fun. I mean, you have to keep your sense of humor.
- [49:45]
Tim Ferriss
I'm going to move on to asking you more about the craft. But if you don't mind me asking, what is your age at present?
- [49:52]
Tish Rabe
At the Moment, I am 74. I'll be 75 in July. And I started my own company when I turned 71.
- [50:00]
Tim Ferriss
71. And we are definitely going to talk all about that. Do you have siblings?
- [50:05]
Tish Rabe
I do.
- [50:06]
Tim Ferriss
Is everyone in your family as razor sharp as you are? I mean, that's a hard question. I don't want you to throw your siblings under the bus. But I'm so curious to what you attribute being. I mean, you're sharper than 99% of my friends who are my age or are younger. And I'm wondering to what you attribute that.
- [50:28]
Tish Rabe
Well, a couple of things are interesting about my background, and we'll talk about this, I know, in a few minutes, my military book. But my parents got married as World War II was starting, and when my father came home, he was a prisoner of war. I can tell you more about that later. But when he came back, they wanted to start a family. And they had two little boys and a little girl. And the little girl was me. And my father used to come home and play piano for about a half hour after work. But I do not come from a musical family at all. My mom was an English major, so she loved to write. So she was a writer. But music was not a thing in our family. My brothers didn't play much, and it was fine. They played sports. Well, supposedly when I was seven, I was in first grade, my father was playing this song he played every single night. It was my mother's favorite. And I just stood up and started singing with him. And they still talk about it. It was a song called Tammy from Tammy and the Bachelor movie. My mother loved it. I hear the cottonwood whispering above Tammy, Tammy, Tammy's my love My brothers were doing their homework. They stopped. My mother was doing something at the kitchen. She stopped. My father stopped everybody. I was like, I don't even know what just happened. And I was just encouraged from day one, you know, to pursue music and writing. So it was a very receptive. And I'll be honest, when I went to college, I told my mother, I'm going to get a degree in singing. Well, now you'd say, well, what are you going to do? To eat, you know, that's nice, but if you don't make it on Broadway, what are you going to do? I was the only one in my class, Ithaca College, class of 72, that did not take an education backup. I didn't want to teach music. I didn't want to teach kids, you know, do, re, mi, fa, so la, ti, do. I wanted to be a star on Broadway. It was just like, are people missing this? What part of this are you guys missing? So I literally was convinced I would leave college and come to New York. And within a year, name and lights, piece of cake. And only any. Only anybody as nuts as I am would think that. But, hey. And, you know, my parents never blinked. They said, sure, if you think this is going to work, you know, good luck. But anyway, it just has always been a part of my life, the music.
- [52:51]
Tim Ferriss
I think more and more. I mean, I wanted to be a neuroscientist way back in the day and was a major in the department and the whole nine yards. Things ended up taking a turn and I ended up where I am now. But I'm still very involved with science. And the more I look at music, the more I talk to musicologists who are in dialogue with neuroscientists, the more important and or therapeutic life giving music seems to be. And it's impossible to say you pull this one lever and you get X, Y or Z result. But it seems to be a commonality that musicians or people who engage with music regularly just retain their faculties and hone their faculties a lot longer than people who don't. That's just my impression.
- [53:40]
Tish Rabe
Well, the other thing that's huge is that music is unbelievably helpful to teach kids. And the sound of it and the rhythm of it and the rhymes. Every single one of the books I've created myself has a song in it. And what I do is I write them to public domain melodies because people know these songs, most of them. And my first one, the first book I created, was a little book about going to sleep. So I wrote a lullaby. You know, night is here, today is done. It's time to sleep, my little one, to the tune of Twinkle Twinkle Little Star.
- [54:16]
Tim Ferriss
So smart, so smart.
- [54:18]
Tish Rabe
And it really works. And I really encourage everybody. I get this all the time. Everybody's always, yeah, but you've got this beautiful voice and you sing all the time and I can't sing. And, and I just try to say to everybody, and I mean this from the bottom of my heart, you can sing. Just it doesn't mean if it's croaky, it doesn't matter what it sounds like. The only voice your child wants to hear is yours. They want to hear you sing to them. And yes, I have me singing them on my website and I try to help everybody learn to sing them. And what. But at the end of the day, it's your voice resonating in their ear. I forget how I said it in here, but it's like, you know, that is the voice that every little kid wants to hear. The sound of your voice when you read and sing is what your child loves more than anything. Isn't Sweet Dreams here?
- [55:09]
Tim Ferriss
But what made Sweet Dreams work, what makes it work, and maybe even more broadly, what makes Lullabies work. What are the other ingredients you mentioned? The mapping to a public domain. Melody is really smart. I mean, that makes so much sense on a lot of levels. What else makes that book work?
- [55:32]
Tish Rabe
Yeah, well, it was really interesting because I started my own company right during COVID 2020. Covid's flying around and what am I going to do? And, you know, turn 70. What? Now what? And I was introduced to a program with a friend of mine, said, you have to meet the people at Pajama Program. It's now called Beyond Bedtime, but then it was called Pajama Program. So I went in and I found out that they give free pajamas and storybooks to kids facing adversity. Many kids not having any pajamas, any storybooks. So I kind of went in to meet with them, thinking, well, maybe I could do a fundraiser or get my girlfriends to send in some pajamas or something. And they said, what we really need is to help parents learn how to get their kids to go to sleep. And I said, the best thing that works for this is to write a storybook. They'll read to their kids and then put the tips in the back, and they'll read them, too. And then I put them all in rhyme. So 30 to 60 minutes before you tuck them in is the perfect time for their bedtime routine to begin. So, and what's happening is parents read the book and they read the tips out loud to the kids. So the kids are going, oh, 30 to 60 minutes, Mom. You know, we're supposed to be in bed now, you know, and then, of course, it has to. And then you sing a lullaby because singing is so restful. And the kids. And now it's been out for a couple years. Everybody knows the songs. The kids know it. You know, the kids in school, they sing it in school daycare, you know, so, yeah, it's very, very powerful.
- [57:16]
Tim Ferriss
I want to come to starting your company and the reasons behind that. Why did you start a company at 70?
- [57:23]
Tish Rabe
At 70?
- [57:25]
Tim Ferriss
And there's nothing wrong with that.
- [57:27]
Tish Rabe
What are you nuts?
- [57:28]
Tim Ferriss
What the reasons were behind that?
- [57:30]
Tish Rabe
Well, it's funny. I ended up marrying a guy I met in high school. That high school, it shaped my whole life.
- [57:36]
Tim Ferriss
So many. So many crown jewels.
- [57:39]
Tish Rabe
So many jewels. And my husband and I live in Mystic, Connecticut, and he's an avid fisherman. So during the fishing season, he fishes three to four days a week. So I'm sitting there going, well, what am I going to do? You know, let's think. And I really felt that I had some ideas for books that the other publishers weren't doing. One book I'm very proud of is called Love youe Hug, you, Read to youo. It was my very first book and it's a board book. And I had begged all these publishers I work with to do a book with what they call dialogic reading. And dialogic reading has little questions. So you got the adorable mommy cat reading to her little kittens and the little thing below says, what do you think that little kittens are thinking? And that helps the child go. I think they just love that their mom's reading to them and it sets up a dialogue. That's why dialogic reading. I couldn't get anyone to let me write a book for them. So I finally said, well, then I'll just do it myself. So what I'm doing now with my books is I have the ability to do what I want to do. And the messages I feel never got out there. It has been a huge learning curve or spike because I always just turn the words in and somebody magically, a year and a half later sent me 10 copies of the book. Now I've got to find an illustrator and a printer and a shipment thing and be on Amazon and sell books on my website and. But I absolutely love every minute of it. It is so much fun.
- [59:22]
Tim Ferriss
Well, let's. This is going to be, I suppose maybe off topic. My listeners can be like, why are you asking about fishing? What does your husband love so much about fishing? I went on my first wilderness outdoor survival training trip in Montana specifically. And the guide brought along something called Tenkara rods, which are these very simple rods with a Japanese design. They are simplicity itself. And we would just stop at random holes and give it a shot. And I found it so therapeutic. But it was my first real enjoyment of fishing. I'm just wondering what your husband gets out of it.
- [60:02]
Tish Rabe
We have four children and two live in Boston and two were living in Manhattan. So we sort of picked Mystic, Connecticut, because it's kind of in the middle and it is the best fishing in New England because we are right on the ocean next to Rhode island and Block island and all of that stuff right around. And he goes out and they have the best time and they catch sea bass and all these different kinds of fish. And it's out in the water, you know, beautiful ocean. He's got a 24 foot boat, you know, the whole thing. And he brings back fish and people, we give it away and he cooks it and it's just really fun.
- [60:39]
Tim Ferriss
Love it.
- [60:40]
Tish Rabe
But he literally leaves at 7 o' clock in the morning, gets home at 4.
- [60:44]
Tim Ferriss
It's a full day.
- [60:45]
Tish Rabe
I was like, well, I better do something or I'm going to go nuts. And I tell you, there is nothing like giving a book to a child who doesn't have a book. I am on this lifetime mission of trying to get free books to kids who don't have any. And I have to say, having started at Sesame street when the idea was to lift everybody up and help everybody and teach everybody how to read, it's amazing to me. We're here at 2026, but I'm doing what I can to make sure kids get books, many as possible. Read, read, read.
- [61:19]
Tim Ferriss
Well, let's talk about Alaska. And sometimes a part always in my heart. What is the context on what I just mentioned? Can you tell the story?
- [61:29]
Tish Rabe
Yes, I can. The aegis of this book is interesting, as I think I told you. I am the child of a World War II hero. And my dad was in college when he enlisted and he was in engineering. He was an engineer, so they made him a navigator. And a navigator in a B17 sits in the front with the pilot and shows them the maps and stuff like that. And his plane was hit by enemy fire, burst into flames, and he jumped out and was arrested and spent a little under two years in a German prison camp. That's when he came home. They had my brothers and they had me, two boys and a little girl. A little girl was me. And all through the years writing children's books, I had wanted to write a book for military kids and military families in honor of my father, but also because I felt no one understands this life. No one understands the sacrifices they go through. And I'm the grandmother of two little girls who are five and three. And I got thinking about what it means to my granddaughter when my son isn't away on business for two days. And the military kids see their parents, their moms and their dads go for a year. And I tried everything. I tried Department of Defense, Department of Education, the Naval bases. I'm like, can somebody help me do this? You know, fast forward. I'm starting my own company. And I got clearance to go on the base at the Groton Naval Base, which is right next to Mystic, Connecticut. I went into their library. I got permission to go into their library. I read every single book for military children in the library and didn't see anything that was helpful for this topic. And I was literally leaving, and the librarian said, what are you here for? And I said, I Want to write a book for military kids. And she said, oh, and she smiled at me and she said, you just need to reach out to United Through Reading. And I looked at her and I said, united Through Reading. Okay. United Through Reading records deployed service members reading books to their kids. Hold it up, read the book. Then they send the video recording home to the child with a free copy of the book so that they can all read together. And when I heard this story, I said, well, what I want to do is write a book from the point of view. It's lovely that they're reading Cat in the Hat and there's no place like space, and that's all nice, but I want them to have a book that reflects their story. This is where I am. I miss you, but I'm fine, you know, you're fine. I'm fine. It's fine. And the first thing I did was I interviewed service members, spouses, partners and kids. It took me months. I have notebooks full of this stuff about what it's like to walk away from your 3 year old and hope you'll be back to see her someday. To serve our country and keep us safe. And I got inspired to write the book and the people I interviewed gave me tips to put in the book for young families facing this for the first time. And one of my favorites was early interview. She said, when my husband leaves, he traces his hand on paper and I put it up next to the door so the kids can give him a high five every time they leave. I mean, really, you know, so sometimes a part always in my heart. Helping military families send love from far away. I was honored to write it. I've received a lot of big awards for it. It's really a passion project for me because I cannot imagine my son walking away from my granddaughters for a year. But it happens every day. And then the funny thing about Alaska, this is really funny. Here's Alaska I actually was going to.
- [65:37]
Tim Ferriss
So Alaska is a little stuffed dog.
- [65:39]
Tish Rabe
He's a little stuffed dog. And I went to buy my granddaughter a little present and he literally fell in my bag. And I'm looking at him going, he's awful cute. And then I thought, wow, I was right in the middle of writing. Sometimes a part always in my heart. And a lot of service members have to leave their pets. It's horrible because they get relocated and sometimes can't take them with them. So I said to myself, okay, I'm going to have the bear family, have a dog. Here he is right there. And have him adopted from a shelter. And then I thought, well, there's a lot of training in Alaska. And I googled one thing. All of you, if you ever want to create a character, first thing you do is google the name. Because for me, if I find out that I was going to name him Tony and I put in Tony the dog and there already is one, I would name him something else. It's just not worth the hassle. And I put in Alaska and the only thing that came up was Alaskan huskies, but not the name Alaska. So I named him Alaska. But the cool thing was I sent one of these little dogs to my art director and my illustrator and from the first minute she was able to put him in the book, the way he really looks. And one of the things that happens to service members, that's him getting adopted from the shelter. One of the things that happens to service members is they all said to me that the hardest thing is missing their families and missing the day to day little stuff. So in the bear family, daddy bear's on a location and they adopt Alaska while he's gone. So in the last page of the book is Alaska jumping on him because they just met and I also wanted to have this little dog. So the kids are reading the book and they also have a little soft guy to go with them. So he's on my website, right? Alaska. Yes. So really inspired to write that one.
- [67:49]
Tim Ferriss
And is the best place for people to find the book and alaska@tishrabibibooks.com where.
- [67:56]
Tish Rabe
Would you suggest Alaska and the book in Alaska are on tishrabibibooks.com we have e commerce all set up. You're just ready to go home with anybody. So yes, that was another fun thing. Who'd ever made a plush dog before, you know? And the nice thing was the only thing they had to do was put his little bandana on because this is the real dog I found. But all he just says Alaska and the name of the book. They didn't have to build a whole new dog to just adapt.
- [68:29]
Tim Ferriss
So the spelling folks, I'll just remind you Robby is R A B E. So T I S H R A B E books dot com. What else can people find on your website? What else will people find there?
- [68:41]
Tish Rabe
There's a lot going on in my website. I have a lot of books in development. I just started my company. This is always makes me laugh. This one is called Days Can Be Sunny for Bunnies and Money. I got a call from a bank in Ohio. They wanted something for kids, because financial literacy is a huge thing. You know, you've got to start young. So I came up with these three bunnies. They're triplets. And Honey Fern likes to earn. Sunny Dave likes to save. And Funny Ben likes to spend. So anyway, so the thing goes on and at the end, they also give some of their eggs to the library. And this is them giving them eggs to the library. So I love doing, you know, content based books. You know, something that's going to teach somebody about something. And I've. I've got a big new book coming out in a month that's actually all about Central Park, New York. Yep. So it's a rhyming storybook. Central park, you can see, is the best place to be that's coming out.
- [69:45]
Tim Ferriss
How did that come about?
- [69:46]
Tish Rabe
Well, it was funny. We moved here to mystic and I've never had this exactly happen before, but I joined the small business, the Mystic Chamber of Commerce, right? Because I thought, well, I'm running this tiny company by myself. Maybe there are other people who are running small companies who could help me with advice or something. So I go to this coffee shop to meet their head of membership. So the Mystic Chamber of Commerce head of membership. And honestly, I think she's going to want me to put something about me on her website or something. And she literally looks at me and says, we have a huge anniversary coming up. Would you write a children's book about our town? And I remember looking at her going, well, it was February 8th and I will never forget it. And I said, well, sure. I said, when do you need it by? And she looks at me, she goes, july. I remember looking at her going, ah, sure, why do you need it? Anyway, here it is. Mystic by the sea is the best place to be. But the thing that was amazing and this has never happened to me before, we're in a coffee shop at Mystic Seaport Coffee Shop. I'm looking right at her beautiful, beautiful young woman, right? And she says, can you get it done that fast? And I thought I. And all of a sudden I saw four seagulls fly over her head right in the middle of a coffee shop. Obviously they weren't real seagulls, but in my head I saw four seagulls. And I got to my car and I said, I've got it. It's a family of seagulls who fly all over mystic, looking at the seaport, the aquarium, the boats, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I wrote the whole thing in like two days. This is downtown mystic. So, you know, who knows where these ideas come from? I don't know, but that was the first time I ever had a complete hallucination in a coffee shop.
- [71:46]
Tim Ferriss
Was Central park something that you wanted to do or did that come to you a different way?
- [71:50]
Tish Rabe
I work with a friend of mine whose name is Jennifer Perry, and she was this vice president and publisher of Sesame street books for a long time. And as soon as I started Tish Robbie Books, she came on as my executive editor. But interesting thing about her, she is a trained greeter. Greeter, G R E E T E R Greeter at Central park in New York. And she came to me and she said, every single family comes in with the kids in the stroller and the blah, blah, and the first thing they ask is, what should I show my kids? Where should I take my children? She said, they need a book. They need a rhyming children's book. And I was kind of like, okay, so literally, Central park is 843 acres of open land and lakes and waterfalls, and how to get that into 24 pages? I was like, sure, I got it. And so it took. It's taken a bit for us to get that done, but it's coming out in a month and a half.
- [72:52]
Tim Ferriss
Exciting. Very exciting.
- [72:54]
Tish Rabe
And I'm working on a big campaign which is going very well, to get people to help me fund free copies of the Central park book to kids in underserved neighborhoods in the five boroughs, Manhattan, the Bronx, Staten Island, Queens, and Brooklyn. And again, when I met your friend Alon from this group in New York, this influencers group, I met a young woman who said, I'll help you do this. It's on the landing page of my website. And we are absolutely crowdfunding enough money to give a book to every first grader.
- [73:32]
Tim Ferriss
Wow. Incredibly exciting.
- [73:35]
Tish Rabe
The five bars in New York. Very exciting.
- [73:38]
Tim Ferriss
I love that. I may have a group that could be also maybe of interest or could be interested in the book itself. But donorschoose.org, which I was involved with, I suppose, still was involved with for ages in any case.
- [73:52]
Tish Rabe
Okay.
- [73:52]
Tim Ferriss
So I will certainly. We'll link to the website and link the crowdfunding separately for people who would like to contribute to that is you mentioned 24 pages. Is that the canonical length? That's probably not the right modifier, but is that the default length of most children's books?
- [74:13]
Tish Rabe
They're all kind of all over the place. The Dr. Seuss books. These books are 42 pages. And what's happening is hopefully, we hope, hope, hope, hope is that Parents read to their kids when they're going to sleep or, you know, when they're home, you know, from school. And it's kind of tricky because if they're too long, you know, it gets too much. So starting my own company, I thought, well, let me start with 24 pages. The interesting thing also to share, we do other languages. Here's Sweet Dreams in Spanish. And also pace of, you know, not a million words on a page. Kids love to turn pages. There's a whole kind of, you know, part of this. That's just how it works.
- [75:00]
Tim Ferriss
Adults like to turn pages, too.
- [75:02]
Tish Rabe
Exactly, Exactly. We're going to see more artwork here or what? The other thing I urge people who want to write a children's book is to really think about the illustrator. I had worked with Jill Guile in London on a number of books. We did the Huff and Puff Train books. And I knew for this book, which is all about reading and snuggling and going to sleep, that she was the perfect illustrator. And a book like Bunnies and Money, it's supposed to be funny. It's this wacky group of kids. This is another kind of artwork. So it really depends on what your message is and what your style is of who you pick if you're stuck.
- [75:43]
Tim Ferriss
On a book, if that ever happens. But let's just say something's not working. What's your go to move? Do you change the idea, the meter, the sentence? How do you start to get unstuck if something isn't working?
- [75:58]
Tish Rabe
It's really interesting. I did a presentation to a group of writers called Girls Write W R I T E Now. And I had young women in my. In the room with me. And then we had zoom calls cross country. It was the first time anyone has asked me if I get writer's block. No one has ever asked me that. This was a couple months ago. And I remember thinking, yes, I do. And what I do is, if I get hired to write a book and I still write for other people, I just finished another book for HarperCollins. If they say we have to have your first draft by April 1st, okay, April 1st. I write in. It's due February 15th. Because I know there's going to be a day when I cannot do this. I can't figure it out. It's not going anywhere. I'm stuck. So when that happens, I stop. If I just say, I cannot think one more minute about what Funny Ben spend his money on. For instance, just for instance, I will let it go. Work on something else. Work on Another book, do something because it is true. You get circled in like a self dissolve in. You know, you're just so, so consumed by it. This is a great example of that. This is interesting. This is the one that I wrote all about. The things you can do that are good for you. And this was the only time that I got this assignment. And honestly, Tim, I thought that is the most boring idea I have ever heard. They wanted a book. The American Academy of Pediatrics wanted a book about go to sleep, eat healthy, exercise. I thought, oh, I can't. This is. Oh my God. First of all, you cannot write this stuff without sounding preachy. Do this, do that, do this, do that. So I got my courage up and I called Random House and I said, how would you feel if I created my own Dr. Seuss characters like Zing singing Zans who loves washing her hands. And my editor at Random House said, we cannot call Mrs. Geisel and say that you, mother of two living in Connecticut are going to start writing Dr. Seuss characters. All you can do is write the whole book, 42 pages, all rhyming. And we'll submit it to her. And if she turns it down, you got to start over. Oh, great. Okay, so I write the whole book. Here's one. Here's the Zing singing Zans who loves washing her hands. Wishly washly washly wish Squishily squashly squashly squish. Wash your hands carefully, it's up to you. Use soap and warm water, it's easy to do. Rinse them. And while we all sing this refrain Germs from your hands will slide right down the drain. So first, sure, fine. Okay. So I turn this in. I turn this in and I go, oh boy. I told my husband, I got no B. I have no B. Plan B does not exist. I had the sneeze, snicker sneeze, who loves brushing her teeth. Anyway, they loved it. Thank you, Mrs. Geisel. And they put it out. And Michelle Obama funded 16 additional pages with exercises and all kinds of stuff she loves. But that was a perfect example of what am I going to do? I said, this is so boring. And it turned out to be a huge bestseller. But it is funny. I just, you know, woo.
- [79:37]
Tim Ferriss
We're going to land the plane in just a few minutes. This has been so fun, but I wanted to also ask you, 1982, Big Bird in China. What was that like?
- [79:45]
Tish Rabe
That was really an extraordinary situation. We were the first crew allowed into China. The first film crew. A couple news guys have been In. But it was the first time anybody walked into China with a six foot yellow bird. Among other things, right. So somehow we got permission to shoot this thing. I don't know. And we walked in and they shipped one Big bird costume. And I was a production manager, what I was associate producer at that point, I guess. And they literally said to us, you cannot shoot this bird in the rain. Their hand painted, their hand dyed feathers. If it starts to rain, you've got to pull Carol out, Carol Spinney out of it and you've got to put it somewhere dry. So I thought I really knew what I was doing. I scheduled 13 rain days. We were there a month in China. It poured the first 13 days, I mean, poured. I mean, not just, you know, little rain, you know, so we would literally push him out and have him do one line. I don't know, should we go this way or that way? Boom, pull them back in and, you know, change them. It was nuts. So, okay. But it did win the Emmy for best special for NBC. And it was a 90 minute special. That was another thing. That was crazy.
- [81:06]
Tim Ferriss
That is long.
- [81:07]
Tish Rabe
Oh, my God. We got back with all this footage. First thing NBC said, you know, maybe it should just be an hour. And we're all looking at each other because it had a really complicated plot. He's looking to find the phoenix and at the end, she finds the phoenix. How do you cut the middle out? You know? So anyway, but. So we did air as 90 minutes, but for us it was just crazy. I mean, everything that possibly could have gone wrong went wrong. But we came home with it somehow. But it was really so fast.
- [81:36]
Tim Ferriss
How long were you there in total?
- [81:37]
Tish Rabe
We were there a month and there's no coffee. You can't have a film crew with no coffee. You just can't. So the first day, everyone's looking at me and going, where's the coffee? I'm like, coffee? We're in China. I mean, no tea is tea. You know, they didn't want tea. They wanted coffee. I said, well, you guys are going to have to, you know, get it together because this is not going to happen. Oh, man. 1982, it was crazy. 1982.
- [82:02]
Tim Ferriss
Wow.
- [82:02]
Tish Rabe
And I sing a song on that one. I sang the Monkey King song on that show. But how fun. It was crazy.
- [82:08]
Tim Ferriss
What an experience. What an experience.
- [82:10]
Tish Rabe
Thing I'll share real quick is there was a five year old little girl from China and she has the lead, right? And she and Big Bird travel all around. She spoke no English, zero. She didn't even Know how to say hello, right? They taught this to this little girl by rote. So she finally understood by love. You met finally by like the last day of the shoot, whatever. But we would send them scripts and then we would change the scripts. But then we met her and she'd memorize the original ones. So you'd be out in this shooting outdoors, and all of a sudden she'd say, I don't know, Big Bird, let's find out. We go, we cut that. Didn't we cut that like a year ago? Wait a minute, wait a minute. It was crazy. And we shot at the Great Wall of China at four o' clock in the morning. Anyway, but that's another whole wild experience.
- [83:01]
Tim Ferriss
I was in China at two universities in 1996, I guess it was. And it is just a different experience entirely now. I can only imagine 1982.
- [83:15]
Tish Rabe
Well, the interesting thing for us was, yes, there's a billion people, but back then they were all walking everywhere in bicycles. Now, of course, it's cars.
- [83:24]
Tim Ferriss
Yeah, it's changed.
- [83:25]
Tish Rabe
But just the sheer volume of people was just amazing.
- [83:28]
Tim Ferriss
Mind boggling.
- [83:29]
Tish Rabe
Yeah, mind boggling.
- [83:30]
Tim Ferriss
I got there at the tail end of the bicycles, so I got to see people in big, big green. J gets cold. Depending on where you are, it can get really chilly. But what a wild experience. Tish, let me ask you a question. This is a metaphorical question, but it's a question I like to ask guests. And that is if you could put a message, could be lyrics, could be a line, a quote, a mantra, anything at all on a huge billboard for lots of people or lots of kids to see. Does anything come to mind that you might put on that billboard?
- [84:02]
Tish Rabe
I would say right now, I would say, remember, the children are our most precious gift. I get concerned about the way the world is going and I just want everybody to remember that they are the most precious part of our world because they are the future. They are the dreams of the future. And we must take good care of them.
- [84:27]
Tim Ferriss
And read, read, read, read, read, read, read, read, read. And I hope you keep writing, writing, writing as well.
- [84:36]
Tish Rabe
That is the plan.
- [84:37]
Tim Ferriss
That is the plan. Tish, is there anything else you'd like to mention? Any closing comments? Anything at all you'd like to cover or point people to?
- [84:46]
Tish Rabe
Well, one thing I would like to say, I have another big book coming out. It's called Kindness is Caring, Friendship. And it is written with international Rotary Clubs. And Rotary Clubs are all across the country, all around the world. And it comes out in three weeks and it's a gentle story. It takes place in Africa, a little zebra. And it's about just that, friendship, caring, sharing, and making the world a kinder place. And I think the world has never needed it more, and I'm very proud of it. And it'll be out in three weeks. I just think we all have to be kind to each other. And I'm doing the best I can to make that happen.
- [85:27]
Tim Ferriss
We do. Rotary Club. Amazing, amazing organization. Also have some very, very old friends who I met who came through Rotary Club.
- [85:37]
Tish Rabe
Well, the other thing, too that's fun about it is it's a book for kids, right. But when young parents read it, we're hoping that they learn about Rotary and say, well, let me find a Rotary in my community so we can get some new members and keep going.
- [85:53]
Tim Ferriss
I love it. I love it. Tish, you're such a joy to spend time with. Thank you.
- [85:58]
Tish Rabe
Thank you. You too.
- [86:00]
Tim Ferriss
Thank you so much. And everybody listening. We will link to all things in the show Notes, but do not miss going to tishrabibibooks. That's T I S H R A B E books.com, contribute to the crowdfunding and buy a few books while you're at it. And we'll link to all of your social media and so on, but people Definitely check out tishrobibooks.com we'll link to other things that have come up in this conversation at Tim Blog podcast. You'll be easy to find. You're the only Tish I know.
- [86:34]
Tish Rabe
I know. There's only a few of us out there. I know. Which is a beautiful thing.
- [86:37]
Tim Ferriss
Yes, beautiful. So it makes it very easy to find you. And to everybody listening, as always, this is how I close my shows. Be just a bit kinder than is necessary when you stop listening and go on with your day, not just to others, but also to yourself And Tish, what a wonderful, wonderful time. I really appreciate you making the time to have this conversation.
- [87:04]
Tish Rabe
You're welcome.
- [87:05]
Tim Ferriss
Yeah. I hope we cross paths against that.
- [87:06]
Tish Rabe
I was going to say I'll end with what I say to the kids. Reading and writing both are so exciting. A book. We'll write a story. Start right now.
- [87:17]
Tim Ferriss
That's how we close. Perfect.
- [87:21]
Tish Rabe
Thank you so much.
- [87:22]
Tim Ferriss
Thank you.