← The Tim Ferriss Show
The Tim Ferriss Show
#858: The Random Show, Couch Edition! — Supplements, Hummingbirds, Cock Rings, Optimizing Mitochondria, Breathing and Balance Training, Cool Grip Strength Tools, and More
01:36:41
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- [00:00]
Tim Ferriss
Optimal minimalism.
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Kevin Rose
At this altitude, I can run flat out for a half mile before my hands start shaking. Can I answer your personal question now?
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Kevin Kelly
It is in a perfect time.
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Kevin Rose
What if I did the algorithm? I'm a cybernetic organism. Living tissue over a metal endoskeleton.
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Kevin Kelly
Ferris show. Okay, ready?
- [00:26]
Kevin Rose
Oh, wait, wait. So we're rolling?
- [00:27]
Kevin Kelly
Yeah, we're rolling.
- [00:28]
Kevin Rose
Okay. Three, two, one.
- [00:36]
Kevin Kelly
Feels actually really good.
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Kevin Rose
I feel like my bowl is a little smaller than yours.
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Kevin Kelly
That's always been the case.
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Kevin Rose
You want to kick it off?
- [00:44]
Kevin Kelly
Hello, friends and family, colleagues. That was amazing.
- [00:48]
Kevin Rose
Very prominent ejaculation.
- [00:50]
Kevin Kelly
Welcome to the Random show.
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Kevin Rose
Welcome, folks, to another episode of the Random show. Couch Audition Edition.
- [00:56]
Kevin Kelly
That's right, adu. Back of my place edition.
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Kevin Rose
Why do we have these fancy balls?
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Kevin Kelly
So this is for people not looking.
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Kevin Rose
These are meditation balls. Got a bunch of script. Presumably that's Tibetan or Sanskrit or something.
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Kevin Kelly
That's right.
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Kevin Rose
And you have a little corner, but that's not the bad corner. That's the Zen corner.
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Kevin Kelly
Yeah, that's the Zen corner. Would you say bad corner?
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Kevin Rose
Yeah, you don't need to put kids
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Kevin Kelly
in the bad corner, but you, like, stand. Did you used to do that as
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Kevin Rose
a kid in school? I got sent to the bad table all the time.
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Kevin Kelly
Oh, there was a table?
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Kevin Rose
Oh, yeah. And then the teacher in kindergarten sent me to the bad table with a bunch of other kids who were really bad and then forgot that she had decided it was the bad table and just left us at the bad table for the entire year.
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Kevin Kelly
And so she's just like.
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Kevin Rose
Might explain a lot of psychological issues
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Kevin Kelly
that I've carried with me. This is not the bad table. This is the meditation area. And I have bowls over here that I just like the sound of a good. I mean, you heard that? Hopefully it came through and didn't distort the mic, but a well rung bowl, it sets the tone for the beginning of the meditation. Then also at the very end.
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Kevin Rose
It's also just perfect for a podcast in Southern California.
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Kevin Kelly
Yeah, exactly.
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Kevin Rose
Nice to be in person.
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Kevin Kelly
Plays well in the whole SoCal environment. There's bowls per capita out here and crystal shops are very high. High density.
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Kevin Rose
High density, man.
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Kevin Kelly
Yeah.
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Kevin Rose
Another Beautiful day in SoCal.
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Kevin Kelly
Beautiful day.
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Kevin Rose
Been doing a lot of walking. Where should we start off with? We got tons.
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Kevin Kelly
We just came back from our retreat.
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Kevin Rose
We did, we did. You want to describe the format?
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Kevin Kelly
Yeah. So we've done a couple of these retreats. This is the second one where it's just a small group of people that are Interested in meditation and that. Want to go a little bit deeper in the world of Zen. You and I both talked about the way and Henry Schuchman a ton. The Way being his app. And Henry's just a great leader, great Zen master. And it was accompanied by Valerie, another Zen master, Mountain Cloud, at Mountain Cloud Zen Center, Santa Fe, New Mexico. Yeah. So we flew out there, small group got together, and it's kind of like if a proper Zen retreat is like 5:30 cushion in the morning and then you're off at 7pm and it's hardcore, like, no talking, shitty food. This was not bad. We had a good chef that was there, and we were allowed to ask questions in between sits. The sits were purposely kind of time. Bound to call it. Maximum of 25 minutes. And then a walking meditation, then another 25 minutes. That was like, kind of the max.
- [03:27]
Kevin Rose
Yeah. Let me interject just so we don't get into hyper bougie territory too fast. So the chef was not our chef. He's actually, as I remember, this is a former, I think, James Beard award winner who decided to forego the accolades and the attention.
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Kevin Kelly
How is that less bougie than what I was gonna say?
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Kevin Rose
Well, you said we had a nice chef, and people might assume that we're like, bringing in a chef. This is a chef who actually.
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Kevin Kelly
He lives there locally.
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Kevin Rose
I know. That's the point I'm making. He lives at the Zen center and has chosen a life of simplicity, working with local ingredients and stuff. And he is also normally there. It's not like we had our own dedicated chef.
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Kevin Kelly
That's right.
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Kevin Rose
That's the only house that's not in my house. I eat. I eat venison jerky sticks most of the time. Lentils out of a can still.
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Kevin Kelly
And you chug my freaking ketones. About five minutes ago, Tim just goes to my fridge and he's like, okay, what are you up to?
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Kevin Rose
I want to see what Kevin's up to. I want to see Kevin.
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Kevin Kelly
Okay, we got a little semi glutide in here. We got some repatha. Repatha.
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Kevin Rose
What else?
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Kevin Kelly
He's like, ooh, ketones. And he starts chugging my ketone ester.
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Kevin Rose
Well, yeah, I unwrapped it and I was like, I probably should ask if I can drink this, but I'm guessing this has been in there for weeks.
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Kevin Kelly
Dude, I don't. That stuff that you drink is like. So they make several versions of that. That's like the full on F16 isn't the latest fighter jet. Whatever the gen 5 fighter jet is F22.
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Kevin Rose
It's the most, it's the highest intensity. This is the Delta G brand ketone monoester, which is bhb, which is kind of what you want, bound with something called 1,3 butanediol, which I will say if you see that on the ingredient list of your supplement for exogenous ketones, treat it like a shot of tequila. You really want to use it in moderation. There's mounting evidence that it's pretty unhealthy for your liver. So just use in moderation in terms of ketone supplementation. But hey, right before a podcast, by the way, it's a great time for me to take like 15 grams. I will not do 30 because. And I talked to, she'll probably come up again, our mutual friend Dr. Rhonda Patrick about this. I don't think I'm talking out of school here, but when you take, when I take, and this is true for her as well, and I suspect other people, the full 30, like the entire shot, rather than decreasing anxiety, it actually for me spikes it. And I think that could be related to a very rapid rise and then trough afterwards, but who knows? The point is keep it moderate.
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Kevin Kelly
You're the first person to tell me that it impacts liver function and I have more often than not had elevated liver enzymes. Surprise, surprise on the whole drinking front, typically. But it's something I watch. And when did you hear about that? Because I'd never heard that to be the case with KU things.
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Kevin Rose
I fortunately, by virtue of doing the podcast and also being incredibly interested in science, interact with a lot of researchers. So I get to have chats with them once I get to know them better about pre publication data studies that are underway and they never want to talk about them publicly because you have to check all the boxes. And science is also very much about not fooling yourself when you make a certain hypothesis. But the first whispers of this were from and still are from animal models where you can basically dose mice with 1, 3 butanediol and give them the equivalent of fatty liver disease.
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Kevin Kelly
Oh, wow.
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Kevin Rose
It's not good. And I'm sure I'm oversimplifying, but holy shit. The point is treat it like ethanol. Treat it like not even tequila, moonshine, like you're drinking moonshine. And you wouldn't want to do that every day. It tastes like moonshine or cough syrup. Cough syrup. Moonshine, yeah. So that is just to say, still think there's a time and a place for it. I've been experimenting with Other versions like ketone salts. Dominic d', Agostino, he's also the co author in some of the papers that are describing this.
- [07:19]
Kevin Kelly
He tried bath salts for a while too. That was a very odd version of
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Kevin Rose
Tim that he know if it's good for McAfee.
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Kevin Kelly
Just eating the flesh off of.
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Kevin Rose
Yeah, eating people.
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Kevin Kelly
Wasn't that the thing that happens in
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Kevin Rose
the median in Florida? It's always a Florida man. Yeah, Florida man. Ye chewing someone's face off after bath salts. Stay away from bath salts, kids. So, yeah, I came in nice and fully loaded today.
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Kevin Kelly
Yeah, awesome. Well, I am glad that you're feeling better because you also might not have made today. So.
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Kevin Rose
Yeah, that's a sidebar. I ended up. I may have had a glancing blow of eggplant to which I am deathly allergic and woke up in the middle of the night incredibly sick last night. So I'm glad I'm here.
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Kevin Kelly
Yeah.
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Kevin Rose
And I brought my EpiPen for dinner later.
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Kevin Kelly
Amazing.
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Kevin Rose
Learned my lesson. Bring your backup.
- [08:06]
Kevin Kelly
So the retreat, let's finish that off real quick. So we got together. What did you learn this time around? Because we've done this twice. You've dabbled in the world of Zen. You've always said, correct if I'm wrong. But meditation has been a hard thing for you, typically. Where are you now with your practice?
- [08:21]
Kevin Rose
Well, what I would say is the first thing, speaking as very much still a novice on any level, I would say that meditation is kind of like sports or exercise. It's like, do you like exercise? Well, what kind of exercise? Meditation. There's so many different ways to meditate or explore mindfulness. There's the Vipassana approach, there's transcendental meditation, there's Zen, which is very much its own thing. And you know more about that than I do. But what I do find helpful about the retreats is you can describe what is going on when you're sitting still with your eyes closed, trying to focus on something. In the case of say the breath or trying to just observe whatever comes up. And the feedback that you get from someone like Henry or Valerie, where you can do a 25 minute sit and then take a short break, talk about it. And they can say, well, given that you experienced this, this, maybe you had restlessness, maybe you had, in my case, this sort of planning compulsion. So rather than memories or fantasies about who knows what, not necessarily people can run wild with that. But I default to plans, like things I need to do.
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Kevin Kelly
Right.
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Kevin Rose
And it's like, okay, well if that's Coming up. Then Henry might say, why don't you try in the next set, which we're going to do in 10 minutes or five minutes, A, B or C. And then you do it and you provide feedback. And so you're able to really polish the stone. Moving forward and similar, I suppose, to a lot of what we might call transcendental experiences, which sounds fancy, but it's really just perhaps not fixating on the self or interrogating what this thing is that we call the self, which you can do through meditation. You can also do it with. Or maybe you're forced to do it in some cases with psychedelic experiences or other things. Breathwork. When I was there at the retreat, you might remember this, I was getting very frustrated and I was like, where's all this frustration coming from? While I was there, I was like, I don't know how much I'm getting out of this right now, but when I got back to real life in Austin, I had like three to five days of this, just kind of blissful, calm attention where I was able to get everything done I needed to get done. There was no rushing, there was no looping in any kind of future tripping. And I was like, well, that's very interesting. And it also holds true for, say, breathwork psychedelics. There are many different things that you could look at. And interestingly, maybe this is one way to think of it. I mean, in a sense, there are a lot of parallels between different methods for entering what people might consider a trance state. And I don't think meditation is exempt from that, depending on what it is. But if it's a concentration practice, it's like, for sure you're using a mantra or you're using something you're repeating in the cases TM in the same way that you might use rhythmic drumming and you can go some pretty weird places. And then you come out of it, you're like, I don't know what to make of that. And sometimes the payoff is what you notice in the next unfolding week or two or three or whatever the duration might be.
- [11:39]
Kevin Kelly
That's right.
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Kevin Rose
So that was very invigorating for me. And also, Henry at one point used a prompt in response to, I'll give a great. This is a real world example of something that happened to me, something I experienced in the sit. And then Henry's response. So I use the way all the time. Full disclosure, we're both involved with it. I mean, it's really because Henry, more than anything else, it's just, I think it's good for humanity and people to learn from somebody who is really deliberate about layering on progressive skills that you can take outside of the meditation. But one of the practices is labeling. And there are a million different ways to do this. But let's just say talk comes up in the mind and you label it radio or talking. And then if some kind of video comes up in the mind, images, you're imagining something or planning something or remembering something, okay, that's video, and so on and so forth. But for me, as someone with very well established ocd, I can just end up being like, radio, radio, radio, radio. And it turns into, instead of a helpful thing, a very interruptive, stressful thing. And at that point in the retreat, and the retreat clearly was three to four days, something like that, it was very short. Henry said, okay, well, he moved into the next sit. And he said, just be still. Just be still. That's it. That is the focus. Just sit still. And did that for two consecutive sits. I just focused on that. And it was remarkable how much everything calmed down. I was like, okay, well, just like exercise, some people sure can go to the gym and do full sprinting workouts on an inclined treadmill. Not everybody can do that. And other folks are well suited to yoga. Some people are well suited to different types of lifting, et cetera. And everybody should probably spend a little bit of time in each of those compartments if they can. But it's not like everyone is equally suited, for instance, in my case to the open monitoring stuff. We'll just sit there and notice all the things that come up. It's like, eh. So I came out of the retreat thinking, you know what? Something along the lines of transcendental meditation, not necessarily with that branding, but using a koan, using Just be Still as a concentration practice that I repeat, really gives me a lot of payoff if I just sit still for 10 to 20 minutes twice a day. Can I tell you my theory on this?
- [14:18]
Kevin Kelly
No.
- [14:20]
Kevin Rose
So one of my theories, because I've been going super deep on bioelectric medicine and different ways of using electricity in place of pills, basically, and medications, which I think is really the next frontier in a million different ways. People should check out Michael Levin at Tufts and some of the crazy stuff he's able to do. But related to meditation, I did this deep dive with someone named Kevin Tracy, who's very credible scientist, very widely cited, helped discover and explore a lot related to TNF Alpha and all sorts of things. And he is incredibly knowledgeable of vagus nerve stimulation. Not the bogus bullshit kind, which is 99.9% of what you see on the Internet. Yeah, but using, say, implants the size of an Omega 3 capsule in the neck, which is where the vagus nerves run, it's really like two transcontinental cables running down either side of the neck. Each one has about 100,000 fibers. And if you put an implant in that's giving continuous stimulation on and off, on and off, it's not 24,7. It's incredibly effective for things like rheumatoid arthritis. And actually it was FDA approved. It was on the COVID of the New York Times.
- [15:36]
Kevin Kelly
Holy shit.
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Kevin Rose
The day that I interviewed him. And that raises the question, how?
- [15:41]
Kevin Kelly
Why?
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Kevin Rose
What's going on? And it just so happens when you stimulate the vagus nerve, you activate something called the inflammatory reflex. And you can, in effect, prevent damaging cytokine storms, decrease systemic inflammation of all different types. That word inflammation is kind of an umbrella term for a million different things. And I remember chatting with one of my friends who is a professor. He was using the 10% Happier app by Dan Harris, and he was meditating twice a day. And then after like one or two weeks, he's like, all of his aches, which are debilitating, like he had a lot of musculoskeletal issues, they just went away. And one way people might try to explain that is like, well, you're becoming more present to your feelings. And maybe it was psychosomatic, but I think it might actually be when you sit still and you inherently end up breathing rhythmically because you can also stimulate your vagus nerve with, say, box breathing and other things that you do that twice a day. If you were to use an implant or let's just say either ear based or neck based stimulation of the vagus nerve, guess how long it lasts? Roughly 12 hours. So you do it twice a day. You're getting full coverage.
- [16:54]
Kevin Kelly
Oh, interesting.
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Kevin Rose
And so if you're getting full coverage and there's a lot more to it, I won't dig too deep right now. If you're getting twice a day vagus nerve stimulation from sitting and focusing on breathing, even if you don't realize that you're entraining your breathing, I think that might have explanatory power for some of the benefits people see from meditation.
- [17:19]
Tim Ferriss
Just a quick thanks to our sponsors and we'll be right back to the show. Sleep is the key to it all. It is the foundation. Many of you heard me talk about how today's sponsor, Eight Sleep, has improved my sleep with its Pod Cover. The Pod 5 introduces Eight Sleep's latest product, the Blanket, which uses the same technology as the Pod's cover to extend temperature regulation across the entire body. On average, members report the Pod has helped them fall asleep 44% faster, 34% deeper sleep, and given them up to one added hour of sleep each night. Also, the pod's snoring detection and automatic elevating platform have reduced user snoring by 45%. You'll also get a personalized report each morning, allowing you to track your sleep stages, heart rate, variability, respiratory rate and more, all without having any devices strapped onto you. So head over to eightsleep.com tim and use code TIM to get $350 off of your very own Pod 5 Ultra. You can try it at home for 30 days and return it if you don't like it. Again, that's eightsleep.com Tim for $350 off. Shipping is available to many countries worldwide. One more time eightsleep.com Tim Listeners have heard me talk about making before you manage for years.
- [18:33]
Kevin Rose
All that means to me is that when I wake up, I block out
- [18:35]
Tim Ferriss
three to four hours to do the most important things that are generative, creative, podcasting, writing, et cetera before I get to the email and the admin stuff and the reactive stuff and everyone else's agenda for my time. For me, I need to find people who are great at managing and that is where Crescent Family Office comes in. You spell it C R E S S E T Crescent Family Office. I was introduced to them by one of the top C CPG investors in the world. Crescent is a prestigious family office for CEOs, founders and entrepreneurs. They handle the complex financial planning, uncertain tax strategies, timely exit planning, bill pay wires, all the dozens of other parts
- [19:15]
Kevin Rose
of wealth management and just financial management
- [19:18]
Tim Ferriss
that would otherwise pull me away from doing what I love most. Making things, mastering skills, spending time with the people I care about. And over many years I was getting pulled away from that stuff at least a few days a week and I've completely eliminated that. So experience the freedom of focusing on what matters to you with the support of a top wealth management team. You can schedule a call today@CresCapital.com Tim that's spelled C-R E S S E T CrescentCapital.com Tim to see how Crescent can help streamline your financial plans and grow your wealth. That's crescentcapital.com Tim and disclosure I am a client of Crescent and receive cash compensation per episode for this Testimonial. I am also a shareholder of Crescent's parent company. Creating a financial conflict of interest. My experience may not be representative of other clients. And all investing involves risk, including loss of principal. So do your due diligence.
- [20:17]
Kevin Kelly
That's fascinating. So I bought one of the vagus nerve stimulators that hooks onto my ear. Have you seen that one? And you feel this little tiny pulse of current that's happening.
- [20:26]
Kevin Rose
So people who are not watching this may have trouble envisioning this, but I'm actually in communication with a couple of scientists in Scandinavia. I don't want to dox this guy because I don't think he's public with it yet. But there are two ways currently non invasively to stimulate the vagus nerve that are commonly known. One is the neck, where you really press some type of device. There are a number of them out there, mostly used for migraines or cluster headaches. And it's pretty unpleasant. Like you stimulate the neck and it activates the superficial muscles in your face and it pulls your face down. And I used one of those for probably four to six weeks. Didn't see any systemic benefits. A friend of mine doubled his HRV using one of those devices. He had some, I'm not gonna call it ptsd, but he had some overactive sympathetic drive. And the vagus nerve stimulation is associated with the rest and digest parasympathetic, which is also why right now I stimulate before bed 5 minutes twice a day. For the ear. Jesus Christ. No, I talk about the device for the ear. There's something called the Simba concha. I think I'm pronouncing that correctly.
- [21:41]
Kevin Kelly
Yeah.
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Kevin Rose
People can see most of the research.
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Kevin Kelly
This little bit right here.
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Kevin Rose
Right here.
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Kevin Kelly
Okay.
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Kevin Rose
And you can look this up online. You kind of want the portion of the Simvacantha that is closer to your sideburns, let's say.
- [21:53]
Kevin Kelly
Okay.
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Kevin Rose
And then you need another piece that is grounding or completing the circuit. And that's gotta be touching your skin. The contact point is incredibly important.
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Kevin Kelly
Are there any of these that you like that are consumer available? Because a lot of the stuff you
- [22:06]
Kevin Rose
mentioned, you can DIY it with components off of Amazon and maybe I'll make that available to folks. The reason I hesitate to do that is that it's easy to get wrong. And you can. I just don't want to be responsible for people trying to put current through their heads. There are a lot of people who DIY trying to do TMS and stuff.
- [22:25]
Kevin Kelly
Yeah, this is the one.
- [22:27]
Kevin Rose
And they Reverse polarity. And they like, you can fry your brain. Not with the vagus nerve stuff necessarily, but you got to be really careful with stimulation.
- [22:34]
Kevin Kelly
Have you ever heard of this one? Neuropod? It's basically. If you look at who's involved on the scientist level, it's crazy. The number of N U R O
- [22:42]
Kevin Rose
P O D. Let me see the world's most study. Wearable vagus nerve stimulation.
- [22:47]
Kevin Kelly
100 plus. International UCLA did a study there. Pen. Okay. They've got.
- [22:52]
Kevin Rose
Interesting. I'd have to check it out.
- [22:53]
Kevin Kelly
It's interesting, but I will say, like, just.
- [22:56]
Kevin Rose
Have you noticed anything?
- [22:57]
Kevin Kelly
I've owned this thing for about a year and a half. I did it for about two weeks for 30 minutes a day and I didn't notice anything.
- [23:04]
Kevin Rose
Yeah. It's hard for me to see the placement on the earpiece. The placement is very, very, very specific.
- [23:09]
Kevin Kelly
It clips right here to this lobe right here.
- [23:12]
Kevin Rose
Oh, yeah. I don't think that's in the right
- [23:13]
Kevin Kelly
place, but you feel a little ticky, ticky tick. Like shock almost.
- [23:16]
Kevin Rose
Yeah. I don't think you're. Look, this is my first time seeing it, but I don't think you're going to be necessarily hitting as many fibers as you would want. If that's the placement. Yeah, but who knows? A lot of fancy names on the website. Maybe I'll take a look at it.
- [23:30]
Kevin Kelly
Yeah. I mean, it's worth. You can borrow mine.
- [23:33]
Kevin Rose
I want something I can recommend to people.
- [23:34]
Kevin Kelly
Yeah, exactly. Right now I can't recommend this because it's not done anything for me. But when I was doing the research for the most, like this one, they've clearly paid for studies to be done. Obviously that's a huge grain of salt because who's doing the studies and what are their biases and whatnot. But I'll let you borrow mine and see if it does anything for you. Because it is a $900 device, which is like, shit. That's a lot of money to spend.
- [23:55]
Kevin Rose
Yeah. I'm using a prototype of one from Scandinavia right now on Amazon. Look, I'm sure people can find some instructions for this. You can DIY something for like 20 to $25 worth of components on Amazon. It is not hard. It's just a small tens unit, dude. Cables. The placement is very challenging to get right.
- [24:14]
Kevin Kelly
Yeah.
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Kevin Rose
And I did not see much in terms of results from me, even with a lot of professional guidance using that.
- [24:22]
Kevin Kelly
So I want to tell you about something related, but can I stop for a second? Yeah, please.
- [24:25]
Kevin Rose
Try breathing. Do box breathing.
- [24:28]
Kevin Kelly
So that's what this is.
- [24:28]
Kevin Rose
Or something like that. Do that twice a day.
- [24:30]
Kevin Kelly
Okay.
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Kevin Rose
This is why. Also in the Great Nerve, which is a book written by Kevin Tracy. It's a great book. There's an extended chapter about Wim Hof. And Wim Hof is a very controversial figure, but well known for breathwork. And you see some of the same effects in terms of controlling immune response, so that it is not excessive with respect to various types of cytokines and so on. You can do it with breath work. What are we looking at? This.
- [24:58]
Kevin Kelly
Have you ever heard of HeartMath?
- [24:59]
Kevin Rose
I have heard of heart math.
- [25:00]
Kevin Kelly
Okay.
- [25:00]
Kevin Rose
Yeah.
- [25:01]
Kevin Kelly
I went to a little mini retreat where they were doing a bunch of different modalities in terms of different therapies and things to just really let you be the best version of yourself. And one of the things that they did was they gave you a HeartMath device and they had a whole class on it. And I was like, yeah, I heard that thing before. I'd never tried it. And so I hooked it up to my ear and it measures your hrv. But what blew my mind was that the app, once you launch it, it's like, follow this box breathing and we're going to watch you get to watch your HRV in real time. And dude, when I followed it, just as it was telling me what to do, the HRV just like shot up. And then I would try and trick it and I'd be like, I'd follow it, but I'd think of something really stressful and my HRV would go down. So I'm telling you, this is the coolest device I have owned in a while. And you lock into this coherence mode as you do this breathing. And it's pretty awesome. It's 250 bucks. Not an investor or anything. But heartmath.com heartmath.com and 60 day money back guarantee. Well, I want to say that because I hate recommending stuff.
- [26:05]
Kevin Rose
Affiliate code, Kevin.
- [26:06]
Kevin Kelly
40% exactly, Tim. 20% off. I hate recommending stuff once people spend their money. But I will say this was the one thing that I was saying.
- [26:14]
Kevin Rose
I've heard good things about HeartMath. I don't know who's involved. I did. Maybe you didn't know this for a period of time. Maybe it was about three months. I did training for this specifically. I think it was before any retail options were available with a doctor named Leah Lagos who has a book about this. And we actually, in real time would do a video call and identify what type of breathing specifically would have, in real time, the biggest impact on hrv. And there is something to this. There's definitely something to this. I can't speak to HeartMath, but I've heard of it before, so don't worry about the device for stimulation. The point being, try meditating twice a day for 10 to 20 minutes. And if you're like, ugh, meditating. God, I'm allergic to that word. Cause it gets used so much, try breathing. Use HeartMath or something else. There's not a whole lot you need to worry about. Andy Weil has some very good breathing exercises. Yeah, 478.
- [27:13]
Kevin Kelly
Yeah. So I have box breathing and 478 on my app Oak, that's still in the App store, and it's 100% free. There's no way you have to pay for anything on the app. So if you just Google Oak, you can find it. And it has, like, six different breathing techniques on there.
- [27:27]
Kevin Rose
I think here's a hypothesis bet. I think that if it hasn't been demonstrated already, I haven't done a full lit search for this. I think there are breathing patterns if you repeat them in the morning and at night, twice a day, roughly 12 hours apart, like 10 to 20 minutes, that you will see a lot of benefits for things like chronic pain. I really feel very confidently, so that's exciting.
- [27:55]
Kevin Kelly
Yeah. Sweet.
- [27:58]
Kevin Rose
What else you got?
- [27:58]
Kevin Kelly
I've got crazy things. I mean, I just had my birthday a few weeks ago, which is crazy because I'm marching towards 50 really quick.
- [28:05]
Kevin Rose
I know.
- [28:05]
Kevin Kelly
And so you getting dragged through the
- [28:07]
Kevin Rose
doorway with your fingernails, leaving, it's really.
- [28:11]
Kevin Kelly
Well, what's crazy is, dude. Okay, so when I first. Tim and I first started hanging out, like, whatever, 15 years ago, 17 years ago, I don't even know how long.
- [28:20]
Kevin Rose
Close to 20 years ago.
- [28:21]
Kevin Kelly
Close to 20 years ago. He's like, let me. Like, every time you walk into Tim's house, he like, tackles you with some kind of new jiu jitsu move to take you down. In, like, the last three years, he's been carrying a ball for his lower back where he's like, I can't move. And it's like old man Tim has appeared. And like, that old Tim that would tackle you with a jiu jitsu move is gone.
- [28:40]
Kevin Rose
And the gentle art, not so gentle.
- [28:43]
Kevin Kelly
But I know one of the things that I want to really focus on for this next decade is balanced. Balance, obviously, is such a key thing. And it's the number one way that people, as they get older in their 60s, 70s, and beyond are actually permanently injured is by falling and breaking a hip and things like that. So two things to show off, like,
- [29:02]
Kevin Rose
incredible increase in risk, all cause mortality. If you're older and you break a hip.
- [29:07]
Tim Ferriss
Yes.
- [29:07]
Kevin Kelly
Turns out breaking hips are not good. So check this out. This one right here, I've had for a while.
- [29:12]
Kevin Rose
Don't fall on your ringing ball.
- [29:13]
Kevin Kelly
So can you imagine smash my face on my ringing bowl. So I'm gonna show you how this works. Have this before.
- [29:20]
Kevin Rose
I have. Yeah.
- [29:21]
Kevin Kelly
And so are you good at these or.
- [29:23]
Kevin Rose
No? Oh, God. You're like. Feel like a parent watching after you.
- [29:27]
Kevin Kelly
How well can you do the balance boards?
- [29:29]
Kevin Rose
I haven't done it in a long time. There's one called the endo board, which I have. I've fucked around with it. I don't think today is the day.
- [29:34]
Kevin Kelly
Well, so check this out. So five minutes a day. There was some research that was done around people with adhd, and it dramatically improved their symptoms, which I have a ton of.
- [29:43]
Kevin Rose
Yeah, you can't really. But why?
- [29:45]
Kevin Kelly
But I want to know if you can do this. I want to see if you can do this.
- [29:49]
Kevin Rose
You have to pay attention if you're on this thing.
- [29:52]
Kevin Kelly
Do these. I don't know.
- [29:53]
Kevin Rose
Never tried it.
- [29:53]
Kevin Kelly
And then the tippy toes. So I do 50 squats like this.
- [30:01]
Kevin Rose
I should also point out history as a skateboarder.
- [30:04]
Kevin Kelly
I do. Yeah.
- [30:05]
Kevin Rose
Which helps.
- [30:05]
Kevin Kelly
Let's see. Let's see.
- [30:06]
Kevin Rose
Tim, I don't know if I'm gonna.
- [30:09]
Kevin Kelly
You'll be okay. You'll be okay. I'll hold your hand when you go up. Come on. Just give it a shot for a second. I want to see.
- [30:15]
Kevin Rose
I'll give you some. I'll give you some.
- [30:16]
Kevin Kelly
Depends. And you give you a walker so you can get up there. Okay. So one foot there.
- [30:21]
Kevin Rose
Yep, I got it.
- [30:22]
Kevin Kelly
Jesus. Okay.
- [30:25]
Kevin Rose
Oh, hold on.
- [30:30]
Kevin Kelly
There you go. It's got blockers so you won't slide off the end.
- [30:34]
Kevin Rose
Yeah, yeah.
- [30:36]
Kevin Kelly
Hard right, Hard right. Harder on the right foot.
- [30:38]
Kevin Rose
Yeah, it's like.
- [30:39]
Kevin Kelly
It's hard, isn't it?
- [30:40]
Kevin Rose
Well, I'm like, nervous about falling over.
- [30:42]
Kevin Kelly
There you go.
- [30:43]
Kevin Rose
There we go.
- [30:44]
Kevin Kelly
Okay, now the squat.
- [30:45]
Kevin Rose
This is kind of like slack boarding, where you need a couple of days to get your nervous system.
- [30:50]
Kevin Kelly
Yeah. Isn't it amazing how your nervous system adapts to it?
- [30:54]
Kevin Rose
Yeah. So there's a crazy video people should check out. I think maybe it's not online. There's a guy named Jersey Gregoric had on the podcast. He's got to be 70 something. Right now. But he was 67. He could stand on one of these at 67 with a fully loaded barbell with like 150, 200 pounds. He weighs probably 130. And he could do a perfect form Olympic snatch landing with ass to heels, and then stand back up and do repetitions.
- [31:26]
Kevin Kelly
So, dude, when I was just in Japan last week.
- [31:29]
Kevin Rose
All right, there we go. That's enough.
- [31:31]
Kevin Kelly
When I was just in Japan last week, I was out there and I was. I was at this event. Whoops. I was at this friend's birthday party that Tony Hawk's also friends with. So I was hanging with Tony, and he's like, last time I saw Tony, I was like, dude, how you doing? Because I. Tony Hawk, one of the
- [31:48]
Kevin Rose
most legendary skateboards of all time. For people who don't know.
- [31:50]
Kevin Kelly
People definitely know who Tony Hawk is.
- [31:51]
Kevin Rose
But, yeah, you might.
- [31:53]
Kevin Kelly
I mean, a lot of people definitely a lot of people know who Tony Hawk. So Tony, for the youngsters. Last time I saw him, he had a cane. And I was like, this was probably like eight months ago or whatever. And I was like, dude, how you doing? And he's like, I just got a couple screws put into my hip. And, you know, he had this injury. And I was like, holy shit, man. I'm like. In my head, I'm like, oh, the fucking legend. You know, pushing himself in his 50s to do. He's still doing, like, you know, whatever. 720s on the half pipe in his mid-50s, like, fucking crazy. And I saw him up in Hokkaido, and we're going snowboarding. He's like, yeah, I'm going boarding today. He has no cane, no nothing. And I'm like, do you have pain? Like, do you have pain? Like, do you feel pain? Like, what. What are you doing in your mid-50s? Like, doing vert snowboarding? Like, you know what I mean? And he's just like, yeah. He's like. My wife jokes that I should have a shirt that says, like, always in pain or something like that. And I was just like, that is a. Some people are built like that, though. Yeah. Have you ever seen his shins?
- [32:54]
Kevin Rose
I'm sure they're just like. He looks like a Thai kickboxer.
- [32:56]
Kevin Kelly
Yeah, exactly. Dude. He has been hit so many times by the board, it's insane. You and your birthday. When I was at your birthday in New York, probably about, I don't know, maybe seven, 10 years ago, you had a slack line in your backyard, and I couldn't do it at all at not even one step because it is a very much a nervous system practice.
- [33:19]
Kevin Rose
It's a nervous system practice.
- [33:20]
Kevin Kelly
So I found this online as like a little home one. Do you have one like this?
- [33:24]
Kevin Rose
I have played around with these. These are pretty sweet. So I have not used the smaller ones. I had one between trees, same company, Gibbon. And just for people who've never played with this, if you're going to try it, don't do like an hour thinking that you're going to figure out in one day you. Actually, my belief is you need sleep cycles for your nervous system to try to integrate it. So you're better off doing a few minutes every day and gradually you'll figure it out. But that's cool. Very portable. Obviously a lot easier to set up and take down than a gigantic thing between two trees with ratchets and everything.
- [33:58]
Kevin Kelly
Yeah, exactly. I just wanted to get one because again, on the balance front, they. They'll have a little QR code there at the end that you scan and they give you about 20 or 30 different exercises that you can do with it. Like the toe taps where one foot is on. And these tap a toe on each side of the bar and like, you're right. And there's this weird thing. And I noticed this in my kids where they got those little hoverboards for Christmas so they can just kind of zoom around. And they're seven and eight and day one, like eating shit, you know, helmets, full gear. And day two, my youngest is just like, like just flying over the place.
- [34:29]
Kevin Rose
Totally figured it out.
- [34:30]
Kevin Kelly
It took a couple days of that. Kind of adapt muscle memory to kind of kick in, which I think all these things do. But, yeah, this has been awesome.
- [34:38]
Kevin Rose
Yeah. And for people who might want to try slacklining, don't get on a slack line. Really far off the ground, number one. But a lot of rock climbing gyms have slack lines set up so you can potentially get someone to show you the basic ropes, pun intended, of walking on a slack line over there. And it's called gibbon. Pretty sure this is why it's called gibbon. Because if you see really good slack liners, they do this with their arms as they're walking across. And what does that look like? It looks like a gibbon. This monkey.
- [35:09]
Kevin Kelly
Yeah.
- [35:10]
Kevin Rose
And you can see footage of gibbons walking across, like rope on small suspension bridges. Pretty fascinating stuff. So try it out.
- [35:18]
Kevin Kelly
Awesome.
- [35:19]
Kevin Rose
You know, I'll throw something out there.
- [35:20]
Kevin Kelly
Yeah, let's do it.
- [35:20]
Kevin Rose
Because it's related to rock climbing. Well, a couple of things since you brought it up. So for the last two days, you know, we've been hanging out a little bit and you have not seen my little blow up Pilates ball that I usually put behind my low back.
- [35:33]
Kevin Kelly
I just mentioned it a few minutes ago. I do see it.
- [35:35]
Kevin Rose
Yeah. No, but you haven't seen it.
- [35:36]
Kevin Kelly
I know.
- [35:37]
Kevin Rose
So what's going on? Well, it seems like. And this is not going to apply to most people and this is a work in progress, so it's not definitive, but I ended up meeting with a neurologist and surgeon in Austin.
- [35:52]
Kevin Kelly
And you've injected baby seal stem cells into your spine? No. It's gonna be some shit like that.
- [35:57]
Kevin Rose
No, it might apply applied to a very, very small fraction of the people who are actually listening to this. He did imaging. He used to be in a clinic where they ran trials and studies related to something called Bertolates syndrome. And Bertolates syndrome is incredibly uncommon. Most specialists in his profession might see one or two cases in their entire careers, but he's seen hundreds. And he looked at my imaging and he said, you may actually have Bertolati syndrome. And he pointed out they had very advanced imaging. It's the first time it came up. It corresponds perfectly to where I point to when people ask me when I have pain or where I have pain. Excuse me. And it's in effect where you have a transitional segment. It's like a lumbar vertebra that's behaving like a sacral vertebra or vice versa. And let's just say it's like L5 and the transverse processes, I think it's transverse processes on both try to form a pseudo joint. So they basically lay on bone and other material to try to create what is then called a pseudo joint. And if you look at textbook cases of Bertolates, you're like, yeah, of course that's going to hurt your lower back. And as a way of testing the hypothesis, he said, well, let's, before we even consider any interventions, let's try to hone in on whether that is accurate or not as a diagnosis. The way we'll do that is there are some nerves that affect that area specifically. There's no like radiating effect or anything down the leg. Let's put in effectively a nerve block and then see what happens. Like we'll put in a nerve block.
- [37:38]
Kevin Kelly
What is a nerve block?
- [37:40]
Kevin Rose
Basically stops the area from transmitting pain signals.
- [37:43]
Kevin Kelly
But like, what does it mean though, when you put in a nerve block,
- [37:47]
Kevin Rose
you lay down, in my case on your face. I hate when anyone is messing with my Spine, man. It's like, very. I've had so many things done to me, and I'm usually cool as a cucumber, but when needles are, like, in or around my spine, I really get the fear of sweats. I don't like it at all. But in this case, that was required. So you get a. In this case, it was. I think it was lidocaine. Small amount of lidocaine to numb the surface.
- [38:12]
Kevin Kelly
Oh, shit.
- [38:13]
Kevin Rose
Then they're going through quite a bit of deep musculature. So they go in and then they're putting in in this case. And obviously, you need special for this.
- [38:22]
Kevin Kelly
Who's the baby seal? Prolocane?
- [38:25]
Kevin Rose
Baby seal semen? No, it was prolocane and something called Kenalog. But none of those specifics are the punchline. The punchline is, after he did the injection, he said, okay, this particular portion of the cocktail is going to last 18 hours, and then you're going to get probably two weeks of effect from the kenalog, something like that, which is a cortisone shot, basically. And he said, I want you to do all of the things that you think will most piss off your back. Like, all of the things you've been avoiding, which for me are sitting on hard surfaces, sitting with a slightly flexed back. Like, if you're sitting on a bar stool and you're kind of like this. Any of those stretching in that position, sitting on the floor with the dogs, certainly things like heavy deadlifts, squats. So I did all of that stuff for three days straight, zero pain. And I'm like, holy shit. After having so many specialists from different disciplines say, yeah, I know you point to that, but that's not the spot. It's actually because there's referral pain from this, this, or this. And just having so many people dismiss how precisely I could point to where I felt the most pain, which was consistent over years. And for the first time, he's like, if we look at the imaging right here, it is exactly where you are pointing with your finger. So I'm cautiously optimistic.
- [39:48]
Kevin Kelly
Dude, that's amazing.
- [39:49]
Kevin Rose
This is the first time in six years. Also, just like there are different tools that work for different people, sometimes it requires multiple tools. A lot of people have benefited from the work of John Sarno. But that school, for instance, in effect, says none of the imaging really maps to symptoms. Well, it's all in your head. So do cognitive training and reconditioning to solve it, because that's the guy that
- [40:16]
Kevin Kelly
Howard Stern got his back problems Fixed through. Right.
- [40:19]
Kevin Rose
It might be. A lot of people benefit from that stuff, but it's also infuriating to be told like every type of back pain is in your head. I'm like, really? If I took a ball peen hammer and smashed one of your vertebra, that would be in your head? I guess technically, since the brain is governing pain like fine. But this is the first time with a relatively simple but precise intervention. I guess it's been about five days. It's like I can do everything with no pain. So.
- [40:49]
Kevin Kelly
Dude, that's amazing.
- [40:50]
Kevin Rose
So what does that mean?
- [40:51]
Kevin Kelly
Well, could be the cortisol shot. Well, that's the one thing that's like, well, that is. But you probably had that before, right?
- [40:57]
Kevin Rose
Or no, no, I haven't. But here's the thing. So that's going to have anti inflammatory. Yeah, anti inflammatory. It's also gonna basically kind of, for lack of a better term, like puff up the pseudo joint in a way that sort of reverses the chronological age or development of that in some ways from a symptom perspective. But this is where I'll offer people something they can potentially look into, obviously with the help of really, really, really good doctors. If that shot continues to deliver benefits and I can do all these things pain free, which is the case right now, then there's something called radio frequency ablation, rfa, which is used to, in this case, temporarily completely incapacitate those nerves. So they go in, they apply radio frequency ablation, and that should last for like a year to a year and a half, hopefully. And the hope in that case is okay with a year, year and a half. And I already spoke, I've spoken to multiple people and they're like, even if you resume a lot of your activities and stair step into it that previously caused pain, you shouldn't structurally make that worse, right? Because that was a concern. And I think that's enough of a period of time where you could effectively reprogram your pain patterning. Because for years now it's like if I sit on a hard surface, my brain is like code red, DEFCON 5. Like, you are about to not be able to sleep for six to seven days and you're going to have trouble walking and sitting and standing. So super exciting.
- [42:26]
Kevin Kelly
That's awesome.
- [42:30]
Tim Ferriss
Just a quick thanks to one of our sponsors and we'll be right back to the show. Back in the day, this was 2004, maybe I had someone approach me in
- [42:39]
Kevin Rose
a coffee shop and said, g' day, mate, and introduce himself. Who was that? It turned out to be the founder
- [42:45]
Tim Ferriss
of AG1, believe it or not, way
- [42:47]
Kevin Rose
back in the day. And people often ask me what has survived.
- [42:51]
Tim Ferriss
After 20 plus years of testing every supplement under the sun, just about what actually has stayed in the rotation in the toolbox. This episode's sponsor, AG1, is at the top of that very, very short list. I started using it close to 15 years ago when it was still called athletic greens. I put it in the four hour
- [43:08]
Kevin Rose
body, didn't get paid to put it in there.
- [43:09]
Tim Ferriss
And it's outlasted almost everything else that I've tried. One scoop covers your nutritional bases, right? Fills the gaps. You want to eat good food, of course, but 75 plus ingredients including probiotics, B vitamins and whole food nutrients act as in my opinion, pretty cheap nutritional insurance. I take it first thing every morning with cold water. And at this point it's automatic, like brushing my teeth. If you're looking for one simple daily habit that supports gut health and fills common nutrient gaps, this is where I'd start. Right now, new subscribers to AG1 get a free welcome kit worth $87 including AG1 and AGZ travel packs. That's for sleep, it's actually great. And vitamin D3 plus K2. So that's a whole bunch of free stuff worth 87 bucks. So check it out, take a look. Visit drinkag1.com Tim and that's the number one. So drinkag1.com Tim to check it out one more time. That's drinkag1.
- [44:10]
Kevin Rose
All right. So you mind if I continue my TED talk for a second? All right. So also had long overdue surgery. I think I might have talked about this last time but on my extensors so the forearm extensors so this would be considered like tennis elbow like 20 plus years overdue from a sports injury. And I am back to rock climbing. I'm not great at rock climbing but I love it. I just love rock climbing. Feeling really good. And if people have never seen something called Abra hangs so like Abraham. But abrahangs go on YouTube find this Swedish rock climber named Emil Abrahamson. So Abraham son s s o n He is a monster. Very competent rock climber, does like V13 problems and probably much more incredible explainer of things and dives into a lot of training and he along with the help of this scientist named Keith Barr B a a r who I've actually had on the podcast developed or tested this protocol for improving tendon strength. And it is the simplest, lowest impact thing you can imagine. It's basically 10 minutes twice a day and he does a bunch on a hang board. But let's keep it simple. Let's say you're hanging on could be a pull up bar, could be a door jam, could be the underside of some stairs, whatever. And he's hanging with like 30 to 85% of his weight, so his feet are still on the floor. Does that for 10 seconds on, 50 seconds off, 10 seconds on, 50 seconds off. And you do it 10 times, that's 10 minutes. And then you do it again later in the day. And his before and after strength and endurance tests are mind blowing. This is already a guy who we could say is a high level climber. And to see the before and after is crazy. So you don't always have to kill yourself to adapt in really, really interesting ways. And that's something I've really, really benefited from. But the low back has been a limiter, right. For the last few months because hanging from a bar, if I don't engage the abs could cause some issues with the low back and spasming. So I bought this thing recommended by a friend of mine, Nick Norris, who's also been on the podcast former Navy SEAL called the Nug. And the Nug is about the size of like a gigantic bar of soap. It's a piece of wood and it has different depths of grips on it, like 25 millimeters. 20 millimeters. And you can move it around really easily. And basically you could keep it in jacket pocket. And as long as you have a carabiner, like one of those things that kind of clicks on, you can do all sorts of exercises while you're traveling. And at home I have basically a plate loading pin that you can load plates on.
- [47:05]
Kevin Kelly
Like this.
- [47:05]
Kevin Rose
Yeah, exactly. So that you can basically do like a single handed deadlift.
- [47:09]
Kevin Kelly
And so this is the same as essentially doing the hanging board.
- [47:12]
Kevin Rose
It's similar. I'm looking for the same kind of loading. But what you can also do is take this thing that you can fit in your pocket and attach it to like a low cable machine. That's what I was doing in Santa Fe actually.
- [47:22]
Kevin Kelly
Oh, that's cool.
- [47:23]
Kevin Rose
And just like get the weight off the ground, the stack off of the resting position. And then I was doing 10 seconds on 50 seconds off, 10 seconds on 50 seconds.
- [47:32]
Kevin Kelly
And you only have one of these.
- [47:34]
Kevin Rose
Yeah, because I'll do one hand and then I'll do the other. Oh, amazing. So I'll be like 10 seconds, 10 seconds, 42nd rest. 10 seconds, 10 seconds, 42 second rest. The website is frictitious climbing. It doesn't exactly roll off the tongue, but like friction frictitious climbing, they have the nug. They have a bunch of other items that you can use while traveling for this, which are really, really interesting. So that's another one that I've been traveling with. I'll let you go.
- [48:01]
Kevin Kelly
Yeah. This is awesome.
- [48:01]
Kevin Rose
Yeah, it's just a fun little tool to play with. Do not overdo finger training. You do not want to tear a pulley or something in your fingers. So less is more. Less is more. Less is more. This is, I guess, something like 30 to 85% of body weight, obviously. Or maybe it's not obvious. That's with two hands. So if you're doing it with one hand, it's gonna be 15 to 40%.
- [48:25]
Kevin Kelly
That's amazing. This is cool. Thanks. I already just ordered by the time we done talking about it.
- [48:29]
Kevin Rose
Yeah, yeah, it's fun to play with.
- [48:31]
Kevin Kelly
Cool.
- [48:31]
Kevin Rose
What you got?
- [48:32]
Kevin Kelly
Yeah, so I've got a couple things. One, I was hanging with Craig Mod in Japan and you've had Craig on the show before?
- [48:37]
Kevin Rose
Yep, Craig.
- [48:38]
Kevin Kelly
Craig.
- [48:39]
Kevin Rose
Amazing, amazing guy.
- [48:41]
Kevin Kelly
I don't think there's anybody that understands Japan the way that Craig does, like in terms of the back country and just like the little artisans and all the stuff that he's into.
- [48:49]
Kevin Rose
Craig has walked, I probably fair to say, like thousands of miles of different trails and pilgrimage paths in Japan. It's very likely he has walked more of Japan on foot than any other person.
- [49:02]
Kevin Kelly
Yeah, so he was out here visiting. He actually stayed in this house for a week when he was out here in la. And I walked in and he's got all his little toiletries sitting out. You know, it's like, sitting out. He puts it all in Japanese order where it's like on a little nice little cloth and it's got like all this shit.
- [49:16]
Kevin Rose
Like he dresses like a Japanese person.
- [49:18]
Kevin Kelly
Yeah, I know, I know, I know. So I mean, he's lived there for 25 years, so that kind of makes sense. But I saw his toothbrush and I was like, that is a dope looking toothbrush. And I got you one.
- [49:28]
Kevin Rose
Oh, wow, look at this.
- [49:30]
Kevin Kelly
So you can get these on Amazon. It's got a really wide head. He said it's his favorite Japanese toothbrush. It has some.
- [49:37]
Kevin Rose
So for people who can't see it, it's like the toothbrush bristles are almost in a square. Right? I mean, it's very square, like as opposed to being more elongated.
- [49:47]
Kevin Kelly
And so you get three of these for $11.50 on Amazon. And what does it say in Japanese?
- [49:53]
Kevin Rose
Premium kea. Premium care.
- [49:56]
Kevin Kelly
Elton, Toaster's here, buddy. Hey, buddy. Look at old man Toast.
- [50:02]
Kevin Rose
I was just saying hi to him earlier. This is. Toaster is now 15. I was just saying to Daria that the last time we did a podcast sitting on a couch was at your place in San Francisco back when Toaster was a puppy and he chewed through the cable, the XLR cables on the Zoom.
- [50:17]
Kevin Kelly
That's right, buddy. Yeah. He can't hear anything anymore. And sadly, his back legs are falling out from underneath him now. But look at that. He's still a good dude.
- [50:25]
Kevin Rose
I feel like you recognize me because I've seen him so many times. Oh, for sure. Yeah. What a sweetheart.
- [50:31]
Kevin Kelly
He's such a good boy.
- [50:32]
Kevin Rose
So, yes, Premium care.
- [50:33]
Kevin Kelly
Yes. I got you one of those. And, like, there's a three pack for $11.50. I think it's great. It's fantastic. Toothbrush.
- [50:39]
Kevin Rose
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, cool.
- [50:44]
Kevin Kelly
I dig it.
- [50:45]
Kevin Rose
Thank you.
- [50:46]
Kevin Kelly
Speaking of all things Japanese. So I am hesitant to give this up. So if you want to get. If you want to get a lone stock.
- [50:55]
Kevin Rose
Only one left.
- [50:56]
Kevin Kelly
Well, hold on. Let me tell you why. So, first of all, check this out. Check out this jacket.
- [51:04]
Kevin Rose
Cool. All right. Oh, nice.
- [51:06]
Kevin Kelly
You feel how heavy that is? It feels like a.
- [51:08]
Kevin Rose
Almost like. I know what this is. I know what this is.
- [51:12]
Kevin Kelly
So this is. This is a fireman's jacket in Japan. And this is a heavy, like, dope fireman's jacket. It's vintage. This would be hard to rip, like the 1970s. Oh, wow. And so I think found a store on Etsy.
- [51:28]
Kevin Rose
How did you even think to look for this?
- [51:30]
Kevin Kelly
Because I love this style of jacket.
- [51:33]
Kevin Rose
These fireman. Vintage Japanese fireman jacket.
- [51:36]
Kevin Kelly
I just typed in, like, Japanese jacket on Etsy. And so this importer, they import, like, the coolest vintage Japanese everything from jackets to. You know how they used to do that patch mill kind of work where they take stuff. They would, like, patch quilts out of old material. Yeah, yeah. So like, everything from, like, little tiny shrines to wicker baskets. Like, dude, check out the store. Let me just show you the store real quick. And the only reason I'm plugging it
- [52:04]
Kevin Rose
is vintage Japanese indigo dyed kendo jacket.
- [52:08]
Kevin Kelly
So they got all the little dolls. They've got these different types of indigo dyed kind of blankets.
- [52:15]
Kevin Rose
So what's the seller?
- [52:16]
Kevin Kelly
The seller is just an importer from Japan.
- [52:19]
Kevin Rose
You don't want to give the name?
- [52:20]
Kevin Kelly
No, I will. So here's the Deal. It's so inexpensive. Like in the States, if you were to buy this jacket from a designer called Visvum, which is a well known Japanese designer, this style of jacket would be. Gosh, I mean, it'd probably be $2,500.
- [52:36]
Kevin Rose
Wow.
- [52:37]
Kevin Kelly
For that jacket.
- [52:38]
Kevin Rose
More expensive than my car.
- [52:39]
Kevin Kelly
No, it's not. They sell these jackets on there for. Here's one for $92. Look at this vintage 1960s jacket. $92.
- [52:48]
Kevin Rose
That's cool. Oh, watch out, buddy. Thank you, bud.
- [52:51]
Kevin Kelly
He kind of needs a little help. I don't think you're ready for this
- [52:53]
Kevin Rose
slack board, my friend. Yeah, there you go. Okay, I know, I know.
- [52:58]
Kevin Kelly
I mean, that jacket's dope, but I just wanted to give this out there because I think if you're looking to buy vintage fun things in, you can't score it.
- [53:06]
Kevin Rose
I know, I know, I know. I'm being an idiot.
- [53:10]
Kevin Kelly
If you're looking for just various objects around your house that are vintage from Japan, this place is insanely inexpensive for all different types of things.
- [53:20]
Kevin Rose
Blue Heritage Japan.
- [53:22]
Kevin Kelly
Yeah. So the Etsy name is Blue Heritage Japan.
- [53:25]
Kevin Rose
4.9 stars, thousands of reviews.
- [53:28]
Kevin Kelly
But look at some of this stuff.
- [53:29]
Kevin Rose
Yeah, that's cool. These kind of hanging tapestries for stores and stuff. Those are fun.
- [53:35]
Kevin Kelly
So anyway, I just thought it was kind of a fun shop that. And you know it's legit. Cause when you get the package, it's actually like shipped directly from Japan. Yeah, like oftentimes you'll find some of these places that make like a Japanese style jacket. And then you find a little tag that says Made in China on the inside of it or something, you know? So anyway, look at this farmer's washi paper basket. But wouldn't that be cool to have in your house sitting around somewhere? I mean, that's just awesome.
- [54:01]
Kevin Rose
Yeah, I guess these guys are based in Canada. Looks like.
- [54:05]
Kevin Kelly
Oh, no. Just because I'm logged into the Canadian store.
- [54:07]
Kevin Rose
Why the heck are you logged into the Canadian store?
- [54:09]
Kevin Kelly
I don't know. I was on vpn. I better close those porn browsers. No, I was in Japan and they were firewalling me off of some stuff. I had to use vpn. I'm being dead serious. I'm being dead serious. It wasn't boring.
- [54:25]
Kevin Rose
Dude doth protest too much. Should I happen?
- [54:32]
Kevin Kelly
Yeah, go ahead. All right, cool.
- [54:33]
Kevin Rose
So I want to recommend some podcasts for people, and these are two that I continue to revisit. One is a miniseries by 99% invisible, one of the OGs, Roman Mars. And he's got some co hosts. It is a series on the Power broker. So the Power Broker by Robert Caro won the Pulitzer Prize in 1975. It's a biography of Robert Moses who basically shaped modern New York. And this book is considered the quintessential book to read if you want to understand state and local politics, especially power wielding in New York. And it's a legendary book. It's 1200 pages. I've never made it through. I've never even really put a dent in it. And then what 99% invisible does. They walk you through the whole book and kind of give you their highlights. They interview Robert Caro himself, who got to meet Robert Moses multiple times. And they have guest appearances by people like Conan o', Brien, who's a huge Robert Caro and Power Broker fan. It's a wonderful series and I think there are 12 parts. I had listened to it ages ago, but they only had three episodes out and then I just petered out because I didn't want to wait months for the next one to come out. Now they have the full 12. That's one. And then the other one is a podcast called Stem Talk. And if I want to find interesting scientists doing things that I think I might be able to apply to my life or the lives of loved ones, and certainly there's a lot of stuff that's out on the edges that is not yet ready for any clinical applications. Stem Talk is just incredible. And my latest discovery there is a really fascinating scientist named Dr. Francisco Gonzalez Lima who's at UT Austin. One of the many reasons I'm interested in his research is that he has a very different view on neurodegenerative diseases like Alzheimer's and thinks as I do, that people underweight and researchers underweight. How you might think of Alzheimer's as a vascular disease, including mitochondrial dysfunction. And the more I dig into this, the less compelling I find kind of amyloid plaque. Like amyloid beta plaque. Amyloid beta plaque for a whole host of reasons.
- [56:54]
Kevin Kelly
It's pretty widely accepted now that that is a byproduct of something gone wrong and not the cause of it.
- [56:59]
Kevin Rose
Right. But still, I do think a lot of doctors and scientists would view it as a byproduct. Nonetheless, a lot of the treatment options like donanemab infusions or otherwise are focused on removing plaque. But you can remove a lot of plaque, assuming it doesn't kill people, because there are risks, side effects with RA and stuff, and you may not see any change in cognition whatsoever.
- [57:20]
Kevin Kelly
What do you think of The Bredesen protocol.
- [57:23]
Kevin Rose
I don't know. Look, Dale Bredson. I don't know much about Dale, so you can illuminate me. Let's get to that in a second.
- [57:29]
Kevin Kelly
Yeah, yeah, go ahead.
- [57:30]
Kevin Rose
But what I have seen, let's just say in the case of some of my relatives, I've got three relatives with Alzheimer's right now. One who's disintegrating very quickly, one who's in hospice, and another who's sort of in the early but rapidly advancing stages. And I gave one of them, actually the exact same ketone that I had before we sat down, only 10 grams, because I didn't want them. I didn't want to risk them getting dizzy, which can be a byproduct and falling. But I gave them 10 or 15 grams and within 20 minutes, longer sentences, faster speech. This is someone who is giving one word, two word responses. And that lasted for about an hour, hour and a half. So if plaques, even if we're talking about tau and so on, if those were solely responsible, that shouldn't work. But I don't want to be dosing my family with ketones constantly for a lot of reasons. It's like, okay, what else can we do? And this Dr. Gonzalez Lima has looked at low dose methylene blue and also photobiomodulation using lasers or LEDs, like, right on, in most cases, the right prefrontal cortex.
- [58:40]
Kevin Kelly
By the way, do you know that they're selling methylene blue on freaking Amazon now?
- [58:44]
Kevin Rose
That's scary.
- [58:45]
Kevin Kelly
I know. They didn't used to because they were scared to do it. Now there are supplement companies, they're selling straight up methylene blue on Amazon.
- [58:52]
Kevin Rose
That's scary. Yeah.
- [58:53]
Kevin Kelly
Although the safety profile, like, it's been used for a very long time.
- [58:56]
Kevin Rose
Yeah. It's got like 120 years of research, but if you overshoot the therapeutic window,
- [58:59]
Kevin Kelly
like, you can fuck yourself up. Yes.
- [59:02]
Kevin Rose
So in this case, it's low dose, ideally plus photobiomodulation. And you're hitting two aspects of the electron transport chain that should be synergistic for mitochondrial function and also glucose metabolism. That's really got my attention right now.
- [59:19]
Kevin Kelly
Dude, look at this on Amazon. Look at this guy drinking a big pitcher of it.
- [59:23]
Kevin Rose
Guys drinking like a shaker bottle full of methylene blue.
- [59:26]
Kevin Kelly
With the goldfish, you know methylene blue is what they use for fish tanks, right? To color the water blue. Is it? Yeah, they were using it in fish tanks.
- [59:35]
Kevin Rose
Well, it's good enough for the fish tanks, I guess. Be careful.
- [59:38]
Kevin Kelly
Here it is. General Disease prevention for fish. If it works for fish, those pet
- [59:43]
Kevin Rose
stores figured it out.
- [59:44]
Kevin Kelly
Exactly.
- [59:45]
Kevin Rose
Be very careful, folks. If you overdo. This is true for a lot of things. You basically have a response curve where a hormetic dose, like a very small amount, is good for you. Kind of like iocaine powder in Princess Bride, or it helps with immune function and so on. If you take too much, it has the opposite effect. So you could. I believe. I don't think I'm getting this wrong. Handicap your mitochondrial function by taking too much.
- [60:13]
Kevin Kelly
Dude, look at this. 15 milligrams of methylene blue with 75 milligrams of vitamin C. Neuropro. I'm not recommending this. It's just one on Amazon.
- [60:20]
Kevin Rose
It's all over Amazon. God, that's terrifying.
- [60:22]
Kevin Kelly
What would it be considered a microdose, in your opinion?
- [60:25]
Kevin Rose
I'd have to go back and look at his actual research. People should listen to the stem talk episode with Francisco. Put it in her purse like an EpiPen.
- [60:35]
Kevin Kelly
Yeah, just take this to go. Take this to go. By the way, the comments, it's so funny you're on this because literally two days ago I was in here reading the comments, and they're like, I'm peeing blue now.
- [60:47]
Kevin Rose
Like, you pee blue, you do pee blue. And that's actually a way, individually, that you can begin to identify your customized dose.
- [60:58]
Kevin Kelly
You shouldn't be peeing blue.
- [60:59]
Kevin Rose
No. At what point you go from blue to clear, you can figure out basically, what the hell. Probably using nothing. Exactly the correct terms, but figure out what the half life is in your body so that you're dosing at the right interval.
- [61:11]
Kevin Kelly
They call this bro science, by the way, when two guys that don't have.
- [61:14]
Kevin Rose
Well, I mean, I am pretty closely echoing, yes, it is bro science, but it's bro science with citations, meaning don't trust exactly what I'm saying. But go listen to the episode and read his research.
- [61:27]
Kevin Kelly
Dude, look at this.
- [61:28]
Kevin Rose
Methylene blue gummies.
- [61:30]
Kevin Kelly
They're selling gummies now of methylene blue.
- [61:33]
Kevin Rose
Terrifying. Anyway, just because the supplement doesn't make it safe, folks.
- [61:38]
Kevin Kelly
Amen.
- [61:39]
Kevin Rose
Yeah, Hemlock all natural. Turns out, shouldn't have too much of it. Hemlock, yeah. Killed Socrates.
- [61:46]
Kevin Kelly
Oh, yeah, that's right. Yeah.
- [61:47]
Kevin Rose
So it's just like arsenic, all natural. Don't go take a shaker bottle full of arsenic. So, yeah, be careful out there, kids. That definitely has my attention right now because I think about, say, parental risk. My mom's cognition is slipping, but she's ApoE3.3. Her ApoE allele profile is 3 3. I'm 3 4. My brother's 3 4, which means we got the 4 from my dad. He's sharp as tack. He is incredibly sharp and he's older than my mom. So it's like, all right, they both have metabolic dysfunction. So that's kind of equalized, right? Like they're fasting glucose and all. That's terrible. It's like, what's going on? Well, you do inherit mitochondria from your mom and mitochondria a very big deal. So I'm looking at different levers that I might experiment with in my mom that could also potentially be applied preventatively. And me and my brother.
- [62:36]
Kevin Kelly
Yeah. So the Dale Bredesen protocol is pretty awesome. He wrote a book about six or seven years ago.
- [62:43]
Kevin Rose
Maybe it's closer to 10 nicotine enemas, am I right?
- [62:45]
Kevin Kelly
Exactly. That's all it is. Which you tried for the first time today. Oh, Jesus. What was exactly that. But yeah, so. So the one thing I like about it's called the End of Alzheimer's is the name of his book is that he understood it. Yeah, exactly. He won't sell many copies with that title. But what he came up with is he said, okay, listen, what we're seeing in the brain is the byproduct of something on hair wire. It's either blood, brain barrier breaking down, allowing bad shit in. It could be bacteria, it could be a whole slew of different things. It could be, like you said, an issue with blood flow and it could be, what did you call it? Vascular type issue. And he thinks it's like three or four. He thinks it's either vascular, which sauna. Other things like that help with cocoavia, like other ways to make sure that you have vascular health. Obviously the mitochondria thing is another one that he's huge on. And then he also thinks it could be toxin related as well and talking about how to get those toxins out of your body. But his protocol is a very common sense. It's like it is essentially a handful of supplements which are all the ones that you've basically talked about along with. He calls it a lightweight keto. So just making sure you go into lightweight ketosis like five days a week. And then obviously no sugar, no refined carbohydrates, like eliminating all that shit. It turns out exercise, intense exercise is very important. And he's shown now over the course of a decade that he's taken people actually, you know, Kelly Boyes, who we were on the retreat with she's an awesome meditation. She teaches something, this form of relaxing. Yoga, but.
- [64:27]
Kevin Rose
Yoga Nidra.
- [64:28]
Kevin Kelly
Yeah. As an aside, her father. I think it should be okay for me to share this as well. Double check. But her father had mild cognitive impairment 10 years ago. And they were, of course, really worried. They put them on the Dale Bredesen protocol, and he's scoring better now than he was when he first took the test 10 years later.
- [64:45]
Kevin Rose
Yeah.
- [64:45]
Kevin Kelly
And she's like, yeah, he still has issues, like here and there, but he's like, you know, I guess in his 80s now or something. And it's like. But that is. That's what you want.
- [64:53]
Kevin Rose
Makes it sense. Yeah.
- [64:54]
Kevin Kelly
Like, even if we can say, okay, myeloconative impairment is progressing, like my mom is in the situation, she can't tell you what she had for breakfast. But thankfully, she doesn't have Alzheimer's. She has some form of dementia. She remembers me, kids names, stuff like that. The important things. She would have a hard time telling you what name my dog is. There's little things that slide through the cracks. She's sadly really overweight. Didn't really want to do that. But the point is, if we can see this stuff early enough where they still have enough of your wits about you to take action, because compliance is huge, as you know. How hard is it to get your family members to go do high intensity exercise?
- [65:33]
Kevin Rose
Yeah. Can I pause for a second? Yeah. That's part of the reason why methylene blue and the photobiomodulation is so interesting, because, for instance, there's a device that is actually worth investigating on some level. It's called the Cognito device. It's a headset. And it was developed by scientists out at MIT. And it's 40 hertz, I believe, both visual and auditory stimulation. And in rhesus monkeys, pretty recently, in the last year or two. Last year, they showed a lot of plaque clearance enhanced by this. Right. But that's still, if I'm understanding correctly, people fact check this, but that's still predicated on the theory of disease for Alzheimer's, that by removing plaque you get clinical outcomes. Right. The photobiomodulation. Well, before I get to that, as I understand it, this is an hour a day of wearing this device on your head. My mom's not gonna do that. There's no fucking way. Nor any of my relatives. However, the photobiomodulation, it's like 8 to 10 minutes. Laser or LED. LED is a little harder to make.
- [66:38]
Kevin Kelly
Do you have to go in to do that or can you get a device that doesn't work?
- [66:41]
Kevin Rose
I'm buying a device, and I'm not recommending people do that. You can really damage your eyes with lasers and so on. But right now, it's not like you can go into a clinic and be like, hey, I'd like to have this treatment. Just doesn't exist. So let me be the guinea pig before anybody does anything. But. But you get this device, and I'm sure it's gonna be very expensive, right? Some of these lasers, there's like $30,000, but eight minutes, eight to 10 minutes, you can see. Even after a single session, you can see multiple weeks of effects. Crazy.
- [67:12]
Kevin Kelly
And so it just sits right on top of. Into the eye or on top of the.
- [67:16]
Kevin Rose
Well, there are devices that go through the eyes, but this one, what makes it so mystifying in a way for me is that it's actually pointed at the forehead as an infrared laser. It's so fascinating. Wow. There are peer reviewed, published studies on this, which you can find. Anybody who looks up Gonzalez Lima will find it. So it's exciting. It's super exciting because there's certain things, like, I know that my mitochondria are funky. I know that through different types of endurance testing, different types of, obviously all sorts of stuff done through doctors and tests and blah, blah, blah, blah, there's something funky with the mitochondria. And I'm like, okay, well, let's try to get ahead of that. And actually related to that, to invoke, I said she would come back. Rhonda Patrick also was texting with her at one point, because I was listening to Stem Talk, that podcast I mentioned, and I came across a scientist discussing something called Urolithin A.
- [68:09]
Kevin Kelly
Of course, it might appear.
- [68:10]
Kevin Rose
Yeah, might appear. And two years ago, maybe it was two years ago, she was pretty bearish on it. But there's a lot of new research, or I shouldn't say a lot. There's new research that's come out and also met with a couple of biotech people in Boston who are very well respected. I'm not going to dox them because I don't want to, but they basically did this comprehensive analysis and landed on three or four things, and one of them was Urolithin A.
- [68:35]
Kevin Kelly
Right. I take 300 milligrams a day.
- [68:37]
Kevin Rose
How did you choose 300 milligrams?
- [68:39]
Kevin Kelly
Because that's what all the studies are done on. Or, no, sorry, 500 to 1,000. I take 500 milligrams a day. Yeah, clearly I Need to be taking much higher dose. I've only been doing it these things for three months to see some results. So bear with me, people.
- [68:55]
Kevin Rose
What's a little strange is that if you buy the bag, you can get this on Amazon. I'm not recommending you do that. Jury's still out. But I'm like, hey, I want to hit mitochondria from as many reasonably plausible mechanisms or angles as possible. You can get Mitopure. It's expensive. Af, it's very expensive.
- [69:13]
Kevin Kelly
I was going to tell people that the one that people talk about the most in this world, that has done a lot of clinical studies around it, Urethra is this company called Timeline. They trademarked the name of it, which is Mitopure. The problem is it's freaking expensive.
- [69:28]
Kevin Rose
It's very, very expensive.
- [69:29]
Kevin Kelly
And I don't know, is there another company that's out there that has high quality? I'm not gonna put shit into my body, right? But I would like to know, is there any company.
- [69:41]
Kevin Rose
When you say expensive, it's like 60 count is $125, right.
- [69:45]
Kevin Kelly
And you're taking two a day.
- [69:46]
Kevin Rose
It's expensive.
- [69:47]
Kevin Kelly
Yeah. That's 30 days.
- [69:48]
Kevin Rose
And most of the studies actually have people taking a thousand a day. So if you're taking a thousand a day. Right. Prices are. You know, the prices are gonna add up again.
- [69:57]
Kevin Kelly
But again, I would trust pure encapsulations if they offered some of it. I haven't seen anybody, you know, like, there's no other brands that I've seen that, you know, the household names like the Thorns, the pures.
- [70:09]
Kevin Rose
I mean, this is a single skew. Well, not a single skew, but a single compound. Company, like, they have a lot vested in IP protection and so on, but
- [70:16]
Kevin Kelly
it can be synthesized. Like, they don't own that. You throw, obviously, that that's something that anyone can produce.
- [70:22]
Kevin Rose
Well, your urolithin A is also called a postbiotic. If you were eating tons of pomegranates and walnuts and so on, there's certain things that in your gut, by microbes will be converted into, in part, urolithin A. The problem is that there's a high degree of variability. So if Kevin eats two handfuls of walnuts and I ate two handfuls of walnuts, we're not going to get the same amount of urolithin A out. Fortunately, urolithin A is very orally bioavailable, which is why the supplementation. Right. Potentially makes sense.
- [70:53]
Kevin Kelly
What's interesting is actually pure encapsulations does make one. And when you go and look at the label, they actually buy Mitopure for theirs.
- [71:01]
Kevin Rose
Oh, there you go.
- [71:01]
Kevin Kelly
So they use Mitopure.
- [71:02]
Kevin Rose
Well, Mitopure in this case is almost like an industrial grade supplier in so much as Creapure. Like if you're buying creatine, I use momentous creatine. They're a sponsor of the podcast, but I like their stuff and everything is NSF certified and third party analyzer. Creapure is this supplier just like maybe Mitopure is, that's providing something that is very pure and properly assayed and so on and so forth. Okay, so pure encapsulation, it's not cheap either. That was 80 bucks.
- [71:33]
Kevin Kelly
80 bucks, but that'll get you. Hold on, let's just do the math here. So $80 is 60 pills and again it is 250mgs per two pills. So that's half the dose.
- [71:44]
Kevin Rose
Yes. So if you wanted so well per two pills. So if you wanted a thousand a day, that's eight per day.
- [71:49]
Kevin Kelly
160. Oh, eight, oh, 1,000 a day.
- [71:52]
Kevin Rose
Yeah, yeah, it's eight a day, 60 capsules.
- [71:55]
Kevin Kelly
But it has other shit in there too. I don't want all this other stuff, the trans resveratrol, whatever.
- [72:01]
Kevin Rose
So yeah, it's expensive. That 80 bucks is gonna last you like 12 days, something like that. In any case guys, jury's out. But it's interesting enough that I added it into the rotation and I routinely take things out of the rotation also. This one I've been taking for probably six to eight weeks.
- [72:20]
Kevin Kelly
What's the number one thing that you've kept in rotation for the longest time? I have two vitamin D obviously because my levels are chronically low without it. And I think at this point it's a no brainer to get your levels where they should be. And then I would say Cocovia is another one that I have had in
- [72:37]
Kevin Rose
for a long time just because it
- [72:39]
Kevin Kelly
looks really interesting in terms of vascular health. And then I think, I think that's well, obviously a high quality omega 3. Outside of that, I don't know what else I've had. What's been in your rotation forever.
- [72:52]
Kevin Rose
I mean a lot of them are dictated by genetic analysis and blood biomarkers and so on. Right. So outside of prescription stuff, because I am taking things to not die of cardiovascular disease because everybody in my family gets smoked by some kind of cardiovascular disease. And I'm like eh, no spring check in.
- [73:10]
Kevin Kelly
Are you taking Repatha too?
- [73:11]
Kevin Rose
Yeah, taking Rebecca, where do you inject it? In the thigh. I hate it. It's so painful. Oh, really? I find it so.
- [73:18]
Kevin Kelly
Oh my God. Dude, I can tell you a secret.
- [73:19]
Kevin Rose
What's the secret?
- [73:20]
Kevin Kelly
How long do you let the alcohol dry for?
- [73:23]
Kevin Rose
I don't think it's the alcohol.
- [73:25]
Kevin Kelly
Dude, I'm telling you.
- [73:26]
Kevin Rose
I've done thousands of injections of myself.
- [73:28]
Kevin Kelly
You gotta let it. Because if you just like swipe, swipe, swipe and then go pop. It hurts because it's pushing the alcohol down into the cup.
- [73:36]
Kevin Rose
Maybe I'm not waiting long enough because I'm impatient. It's possible because.
- [73:39]
Kevin Kelly
Are you letting it come to room temperature too?
- [73:41]
Kevin Rose
Yeah, I did let it come to
- [73:42]
Kevin Kelly
room temperature because you know it takes five times as long to inject it if you don't.
- [73:46]
Kevin Rose
Yeah, there's the prescription stuff. It's not going to apply to too broad a number of people and I don't want anyone aping it and getting themselves into trouble. But there are like a few prescription meds for lipid profile. It's specifically in my case cholesterol absorption, hyper absorption. But I would say supplement wise, omega 3. I honestly try to get that from fish when I can. So I eat a lot of canned sardines and mackerel and stuff, which ties into the keto and fast mimicking diet stuff. Vitamin D. Yes. Although I'm pretty skeptical of like the entire planet having vitamin D deficiency, frankly. I do take it though. Then there's some B vitamin complex. I do that too. I'm a shitty methylator, so that's a good idea.
- [74:27]
Kevin Kelly
Yeah, same.
- [74:28]
Kevin Rose
And creatine. Although I end up looking kind of like a puffy fat baby if I eat too much of that stuff.
- [74:33]
Kevin Kelly
But you're doing 5 grams.
- [74:35]
Kevin Rose
It depends on the day. Right. So like I took 5 grams today. If I'm training, I'm going to use at least 10. Doing weight training. And then if I have a crazy travel schedule ahead of me, where I'm going to be in London for one day and Sweden for one day, I'll be taking probably 20 to 30 grams a day because my sleep's going to be so screwed. Yeah. Just to compensate for the sleep deprivation.
- [74:55]
Kevin Kelly
Holy shit. Good luck making it to the toilet. Yeah, creatine jacks your stomach up.
- [75:02]
Kevin Rose
Don't combine. Actually I'm fine with creatine if I get.
- [75:05]
Kevin Kelly
You told me at one point it was messing you up though.
- [75:07]
Kevin Rose
Well, there was the story of me.
- [75:11]
Kevin Kelly
What did I have?
- [75:13]
Kevin Rose
I was in San Francisco. This is probably tmi, but Whatever, we're all friends here, right? So I was in San Francisco. I had my Volkswagen Golf that got broken into like three times for change. I was so annoyed. San Francisco for the win. And in any case, I had to run to an international flight. And I was stressed out because I was running behind. And I was like, well, just before I go, I'm gonna have double espresso, 10 grams of creatine. And then I had MCT oil. And I'm driving on my way to the airport, like in a massive rush. I don't have time for anything, and I lean to do a little squeaker and just.
- [75:50]
Kevin Kelly
Oh, no.
- [75:51]
Kevin Rose
Full disaster in an Uber. No, in my own car. I park in long term parking.
- [75:58]
Kevin Kelly
You grab a new pair out of your thing, Just wipe and go.
- [76:00]
Kevin Rose
I. Oh, God. All right. I can't believe I'm talking about this to millions of people, but basically took the underwear and some rags that I had, did what I had to do for emergency field triage, tossed it under my car, put on my pants, throw it in the trash, put on my pants. No. I literally was about to miss my flight, put my pants on commando style, and then ran on and got on the flight. Wow. And I was just like, I'm sorry, everybody. I know this can't be too much of a wonderful cologne for anyone nearby. We might need to edit some of that. So. Yeah, don't do those three at once if you're getting crap. Your creatine. I don't find it to mess up my stomach at all. Totally fine. If you combine it with caffeine and MCT oil.
- [76:45]
Kevin Kelly
MCT oil is all beveled, dude.
- [76:47]
Kevin Rose
All are off. All bets are off.
- [76:49]
Kevin Kelly
That stuff just goes straight through you. I don't know a single person that can do high dose MCT and be like, oh, my stomach's fine.
- [76:55]
Kevin Rose
Yeah, no, you're gonna. You should just pre order the subscription of Depends. Let me mention one other thing. So, related to all the mental health stuff, it sounds like we're doing like, tons of stuff, millions of things. It's actually not that complicated for me. Right. There are a few supplements that I'm taking consistently. The creatine, the urolithinine, et cetera. There are a few things I'm considering, like methylene blue. If photobiomodulation with the lasers or LEDs is something that you can experiment with once a week or once every few weeks and track changes over time. Let's do that. Before and after cognitive testing, intermittent ketosis, which I find easiest to do through Intermittent fasting, frankly, which I'll be doing when I travel. Also, I find it to help with jet lag. And then there's the exercise. Right, and so what kind of exercise? I did a podcast with Dr. Tommy Wood recently. Fascinating guy. People should listen to that episode. But 4x4 Norwegian high intensity training, which is like you're basically doing, I guess it would be considered zone four. You're really maxing out your heart rate and you're doing four minutes on, three minutes off, four minutes on, three minutes off,. You're repeating that four times, and it is very much puke inducing. It's a lot of lactic acid. The problem has always been, or one of the problems has always been that if I'm traveling, stationary bikes in hotels are just terrible. They will destroy my knees. They're just too inconsistent in terms of settings and stuff. So I was texting with Tommy. I don't think he'd mind me saying, I'll have to double check with him. But I asked him, I said if in the conversation we had, I was like, well, what are the drivers here? Is it VO2 max? So people talk about VO2 max, VO2 max, VO2 max. And he said, well, lactate actually seems to be a big driver, like lactic acid.
- [78:40]
Kevin Kelly
Driver of what?
- [78:41]
Kevin Rose
Driver of the cognitive changes, like the neuroanatomical and vascular changes. And it's like, okay, well, hold on a second. I was like, if that's the case, there are certain ways of weight training. Like if you do 20 rep squats in slow cadence or any number of different things, like, you are going to be brimming with lactic acid. Could that possibly achieve the same effect?
- [79:03]
Kevin Kelly
You don't think it's Clotho?
- [79:04]
Kevin Rose
Clotho's another part of it.
- [79:05]
Kevin Kelly
Because Clotho has been shown, like, hit is what creates Clotho in the humans.
- [79:10]
Kevin Rose
Well, cloth is another piece. I don't think it's the only piece. I think that. I mean, look, I can't wait for us to have proper injectable Clotho or that lever to pull. But in the meantime, I guess the right now, today, what I'm saying is like, high intensity interval training when you're traveling is not always the easiest thing to do.
- [79:28]
Kevin Kelly
Right?
- [79:28]
Kevin Rose
But like, for instance, when I go back to my hotel tonight, can I do like, a couple of sets of very high repetition leg presses and just basically have lactic acid pouring out my eyeballs? Yeah, I can do that. And I can do it in, like, five minutes. And there are many open questions about It. But that's the approach I'm taking. And what's really cool about the Norwegian 4x4 that Tommy describes, and I think I'm remembering this correctly, is that if you do it, I think it's three times a week for six months, you can observe the effects, the beneficial effects for like five years afterwards.
- [80:03]
Kevin Kelly
Wow. Holy shit.
- [80:04]
Kevin Rose
Isn't that fucking crazy?
- [80:05]
Kevin Kelly
That's amazing.
- [80:05]
Kevin Rose
The durability of the effects are just nuts.
- [80:08]
Kevin Kelly
Okay, this is what I gotta. I don't start by like one by one or something to get going.
- [80:12]
Kevin Rose
Four by four by doing four by four. If you're doing it properly. I use a Morpheus chest strap.
- [80:18]
Kevin Kelly
Yeah, but you're assuming a certain level of like baseline cardiovascular Fitness and do 4x4.
- [80:26]
Kevin Rose
Not really. Because, I mean, look, you don't subject to it. You don't want to blow yourself apart. But it's heart rate based, right? So if you get winded and your heart gets gone walking up a flight of stairs, you're not going to need very much to get into the proper zone. I will say for me, and this comes back to the mitochondrial discussion and I've had doctors who are like, that's nonsense. It's all mediated by the lungs. Or it's actually not mediated by the lungs. It's all like heart stroke volume. I'm like, my legs crap out first before my heart rate gets to where it needs to be. My legs are the weak length. Oh, dude, the fatigue in my legs.
- [80:58]
Kevin Kelly
I've got boots for you tonight. Can I put the boots on while you have dinner?
- [81:02]
Kevin Rose
Are these the.
- [81:03]
Kevin Kelly
The ones that go all the way up the leg?
- [81:04]
Kevin Rose
Normatec?
- [81:05]
Kevin Kelly
Yeah. Have you ever tried them?
- [81:07]
Kevin Rose
I have. I love those.
- [81:08]
Kevin Kelly
Oh, they're so good for people who don't know. Real quick aside, you just squeeze and then move the blood around in your legs. Great for recovery.
- [81:15]
Kevin Rose
It's like if you want to feel like a Kobe cow.
- [81:18]
Kevin Kelly
Yeah, exactly.
- [81:19]
Kevin Rose
Throw on some Normatec boots. Have a cold beer while you're doing.
- [81:22]
Kevin Kelly
Yeah, we could do both those things tonight.
- [81:25]
Kevin Rose
I mean, that's it.
- [81:26]
Kevin Kelly
From my side, that's a lot of doom and gloom. AI ship. I don't want to talk about that.
- [81:29]
Kevin Rose
Yeah, no, let's save the doom and gloom for next time. I think you're getting contagion from one of our other friends. I left out something that's kind of important. I just gotta show you what you're talking about.
- [81:39]
Kevin Kelly
We have a buddy that just like we text with and we love you if you're listening, but he's like the world is ending.
- [81:45]
Kevin Rose
It's a lot of I can only I lean dystopian anyway. It's like I don't need anyone feeding that hyper vigilant. Like I need to become John Connor. Like I don't. Plus it's like, can I do anything? What am I gonna do? What's Timmy gonna do?
- [81:59]
Kevin Kelly
Yeah, exactly, Meditate.
- [82:01]
Kevin Rose
Genie's out of the bottle, folks, so we'll save the doom and gloom for next time. But in terms of an actionable thing, like something I just did before coming here, let's say you want to experiment with this lactate as lever for cognitive longevity, Right? That's interesting. Okay. And let's just say furthermore to your point, right, everybody's getting older and believe me, maybe you're like 20 year old dude and feeling immortal. Those fucked up joints and broken bones will add up and they will come back to haunt you like the ghost of Christmas past. So if you're trying to minimize injury risk and lifting, there are a couple of different ways you can do it. One that I've been a proponent of for a long time is slow down, 5 seconds up, 5 seconds down, 10 seconds up, 10 seconds down.
- [82:49]
Kevin Kelly
Time under tension is huge, right?
- [82:51]
Kevin Rose
Yeah. So it's like, look, if you're not a competitive power lifter, consider moving slowly. What that requires you to do is lower the weight. You're also not going to be using momentum. The second thing, testosterone. Well, not for lactate. Yeah, I mean, sure. When in doubt.
- [83:06]
Kevin Kelly
Yeah, testosterone. When in doubt. 200 milligrams once a week.
- [83:10]
Kevin Rose
Yeah, that's a joke, people.
- [83:13]
Kevin Kelly
First of all, if you have it anyway, don't do that.
- [83:16]
Kevin Rose
The second thing you can do, which I've been experimenting with, which Tommy Wood uses all the time, especially when traveling, is blood flow restriction cuff.
- [83:23]
Kevin Kelly
Yes.
- [83:24]
Kevin Rose
And so I used to have some
- [83:25]
Kevin Kelly
of those before my fire happened. Yeah.
- [83:27]
Kevin Rose
So I would.
- [83:27]
Kevin Kelly
Blood flow. I got the automatic ones that would automatically keep the pressure too.
- [83:31]
Kevin Rose
Yeah, yeah. I mean you're not going to be. You don't have to use like a hand pump. I've got the. I'm using the Katsu.
- [83:36]
Kevin Kelly
Yeah, my more digital Katsu. Yeah.
- [83:38]
Kevin Rose
A T, S, U, C4. I'm using the C4 because I'm like, I don't want another app.
- [83:41]
Kevin Kelly
You get the app. Oh, I got the app.
- [83:43]
Kevin Rose
That's nice. Like, look, if people want apps, they can. I'm kind of along the Bill Burr lines of like, I need to install a fucking app to use my toaster now. Like, please Shoot me my hummingbird theater. Oh, yeah, we'll talk about that. Let me finish. The blood flow restriction. Jesus, we're all over the place. All right, so the blood flow restriction, all it is is a cuff. It inflates and it causes a partial occlusion.
- [84:06]
Kevin Kelly
Right.
- [84:07]
Kevin Rose
It's cutting off circulation to your arms or your legs. And there's a lot of really good science on this. You can check it out. But what you can do when traveling, and I'm trying this right now. Tommy Wood, by the way, is a phenomenal athlete, endurance and strongman in addition to being an incredible researcher. I don't know where they breed these people. Like Dominic D'. Agostino. Same thing. Like 500 pound deadlift for 10 reps after a seven day fast. Like, who are these people anyway? Time is a beast when he's traveling and he doesn't lose muscle when he's doing this. He'll use blood flow restriction and he'll bring bands. He'll just have a bunch of bands. And I gotta tell you much I like to think of myself as reasonably strong. I'm not a world class powerlifter, but I think generally pretty strong guy. I put on those cuffs today and I was like, I think I'll just bump it from light up to medium, like £20. Well, it has a different metric, it has a different band strength. Yeah.
- [85:02]
Kevin Kelly
In terms of extra large or extra
- [85:04]
Kevin Rose
strong, I can't remember. Yeah, I mean, if you use the Kaatsu bands, there are many other brands. Tommy uses a different brand you can find in the podcast and put in the show notes. But suffice to say, it's like you're using very, very lightweights. And it's like I can probably do hammer curls with like 40 pound dumbbells.
- [85:21]
Kevin Kelly
Let's just say with those on. No, no, no, that's what I was gonna say. That's way too much weight.
- [85:26]
Kevin Rose
I'm saying normally. Right. With reasonable cadence, not swinging around. I can probably do hammer curls with 40 pounds without too much trouble with the blood flow restriction bands on,
- [85:41]
Kevin Kelly
literally 20 pounds is all you need.
- [85:42]
Kevin Rose
Oh, 10 pounds. Yeah. And I was doing like 30 reps and then take 15 second rest, then 20 reps. 15 second rest, like 10 to 15 reps.
- [85:52]
Kevin Kelly
So you have the C4S, these bevels.
- [85:54]
Kevin Rose
I've got the C4S. Yeah. And look, Katsu is expensive. These are what, $1,259. That is expensive. There are other options that are not that expensive. But then the one that really was humbling is I was like, okay, I'll just do push ups for like triceps because I only brought the armbands, I didn't bring the leg bands and everything. This time around I can just do like walking lunges. Trust me, you can smoke yourself doing those. But was doing push ups and I was like, well, let me start moderate. I'll just start on like a bench that's about 18 inches off the ground. I'll do some push ups. And I did like 25. And I'm like, wow, that's a lot harder than I would expect, right? Cause like on the ground I could probably do, I don't know, 40, like good form, 50 pushups. And I did 25. I was like, wow, that's uncomfortable. And then I went to do the next set, got like five and I was like, oh, I can't do it. And so I increased my. Basically elevated myself to make it easier, right? And I'm doing it on like the seat of a hamstring curl machine. Did like 12, couldn't do anymore. And then I got to the point where I was literally doing push ups. It's so humbling on like the railing of stairs. I was like, I'm basically standing up straight. And I did 30 reps. And I was like, this really real quick. Keeps your ego in check.
- [87:12]
Kevin Kelly
22nd version. Why is it working? Why is restricting blood flow working? Why is it building more muscle?
- [87:17]
Kevin Rose
It's doing a few different things. It's also increasing, like capillary density and vasculature. It's having a whole host of effects. I to be honest.
- [87:25]
Kevin Kelly
But doesn't it increase HGH as well localized?
- [87:29]
Kevin Rose
It might. It makes you sweat your balls off too.
- [87:32]
Kevin Kelly
And then I had another question.
- [87:33]
Kevin Rose
Not to get too technical, but could it work?
- [87:35]
Kevin Kelly
Could that work?
- [87:37]
Kevin Rose
Kevin's asking me if you could use flow restriction on your.
- [87:40]
Kevin Kelly
I didn't want to bring it up unless you schwant. So listen, I think it sounds like a terrible idea. No, listen, they have rings that you can put around your schlongs. But listen, hear me out. I just literally googled that there is smooth muscle tissue in there. If you're telling me that you're putting bands on your arms doing lifts, how
- [88:02]
Kevin Rose
are you gonna do lifts with your schwants?
- [88:04]
Kevin Kelly
You have to have a slonk erection
- [88:07]
Kevin Rose
and then you do shell and monk
- [88:09]
Kevin Kelly
like you have the band. I'm just saying this is theory.
- [88:13]
Kevin Rose
Oh, I guess you could like do manual resistance. You could push it down and then
- [88:16]
Kevin Kelly
bring it back up, you know what's crazy is, like, we. Obviously, everyone knows this is a joke, but it might not be. You know what I mean? This could be real.
- [88:27]
Tim Ferriss
Do not.
- [88:28]
Kevin Rose
Do not.
- [88:29]
Kevin Kelly
Yeah.
- [88:30]
Kevin Rose
Do not wrap.
- [88:31]
Kevin Kelly
Well, they have rings that they sell in stores. Yeah. Yeah.
- [88:34]
Kevin Rose
Okay. I think you can try that and then report back in the next.
- [88:38]
Kevin Kelly
Have you ever used one of the rings?
- [88:40]
Kevin Rose
I don't think so. You have to. No, I mean, I would. Why not?
- [88:44]
Kevin Kelly
Yeah, I mean, why not?
- [88:46]
Kevin Rose
As long as you're not gonna, like, completely. It's not gonna just, like, fall off.
- [88:50]
Kevin Kelly
Apparently, it's. So it locks the blood in.
- [88:52]
Kevin Rose
Well, obviously.
- [88:53]
Kevin Kelly
Yeah. What else would we do? Well, obviously. Verbula.
- [88:54]
Kevin Rose
Don't know.
- [88:56]
Kevin Kelly
Pre bio.
- [88:57]
Kevin Rose
We're talking about cock rings. Speaking in fucking riddles here.
- [89:01]
Kevin Kelly
That's what they're called. What is the sound of one? Yeah. Okay.
- [89:06]
Kevin Rose
It's really fucking wet in the gutter.
- [89:07]
Kevin Kelly
Yeah. Quickly, what was the end of the episode? So.
- [89:10]
Kevin Rose
Hummingbirds.
- [89:11]
Kevin Kelly
Hummingbirds. Okay. So before we started the show, Tim's like, you gotta mention the hummingbirds. Well, I looked at your.
- [89:17]
Kevin Rose
Your draft, and I was like, you gotta talk about your hummingbird thing. You sent me a bunch of these videos, dude.
- [89:20]
Kevin Kelly
They're so cool. Okay. So essentially, for Christmas, I got my. My kids a hummingbird feeder with a digital camera built in. And the cool thing about it is it charges from the sunlight. And then also. So the camera just always stays on. And then also it detects what. In this case, it's a hummingbird. But they happen for normal birds as well. But it'll tell you the variety of hummingbird that land in. And then use the AI and then you can name them. And so we have one named Tony's back. Yeah, exactly. We have one named Sunset. Our girls named Sunset because it has this beautiful red neck. And we're like, I'll get a text notification. Sunset is drinking with you. That's the one. Bird Buddy Smart Solar pro hummingbird feeder. And it's fun, people, because these things are so beautiful. The videos are amazing. The videos are amazing. And then they play with each other and you watch them hovering and you get full audio so you see the little tiny tongues sticking out. It's just amazing. It's really cool.
- [90:20]
Kevin Rose
The videos were quite cool.
- [90:22]
Kevin Kelly
Then I got the one that is for just standard birds, which has bird feed that comes down. Yeah. And squirrels are taking it over.
- [90:32]
Kevin Rose
Oh, they're just.
- [90:32]
Kevin Kelly
They are ruthless. They jump like there's nothing you could do to keep them out of it.
- [90:37]
Kevin Rose
Like, they.
- [90:37]
Kevin Kelly
They will spring onto it. And then you see they're like, sadly, they look out because they don't want to get attacked.
- [90:43]
Kevin Rose
Yeah.
- [90:43]
Kevin Kelly
And so you just. All I have is squirrel ass on my freaking camera. I'm like, God damn it. Like, how do I get rid of. Of the squirrels?
- [90:51]
Kevin Rose
Have you heard of Mark Rober? Does this name anything who created, like, the ultimate squirrel Ninja warrior course in his backyard? Put it on YouTube. Let me. Yeah, there we go.
- [91:01]
Kevin Kelly
All right.
- [91:01]
Kevin Rose
Mark Rober, Squirrels. I think he had the same problem. Here we go. Backyard squirrel maze 1.0 ninja warrior course.
- [91:12]
Kevin Kelly
Keep in mind, people have to check this out.
- [91:15]
Kevin Rose
Oh, no ads. No free ads.
- [91:17]
Kevin Kelly
I gotta pay for my pro.
- [91:19]
Kevin Rose
Yeah, you're not paying the $5.
- [91:20]
Kevin Kelly
I'm not logged in.
- [91:21]
Kevin Rose
You're buying $7,000 Japanese vintage jackets, so you won't pay $5 to get rid
- [91:25]
Kevin Kelly
of these goddamn ads.
- [91:27]
Kevin Rose
So here, hold on. Yeah, look at this setup.
- [91:32]
Kevin Kelly
So this is like Mr. Beast for squirrels. It's.
- [91:36]
Kevin Rose
Oh, yeah, look. These guys just get.
- [91:39]
Kevin Kelly
My God. It's totally Mr. Beast for squirrels. Like, he's. Have him do all these obstacle courses.
- [91:45]
Kevin Rose
They stick their head through and then they get a photo taken. All right, we'll link to that, people.
- [91:52]
Kevin Kelly
You have to watch this video.
- [91:53]
Kevin Rose
Backyard squirrel maze 1.0 by Mark Rober. Dude, this is Rober 144 million.
- [91:59]
Kevin Kelly
See, this is the kind of where I'm like, I should have come up with this idea. Like, this is too good. All right.
- [92:06]
Kevin Rose
Solid. Hummingbirds and cockroach.
- [92:08]
Kevin Kelly
Yeah, we covered it all this time, people.
- [92:11]
Kevin Rose
Save the random show.
- [92:12]
Kevin Kelly
Brother, good to see you.
- [92:13]
Kevin Rose
Yeah, good to see you too, man.
- [92:14]
Kevin Kelly
Glad you're feeling better. And yeah, continue to be continued.
- [92:18]
Kevin Rose
All right, folks, we'll put everything in the show. Notes Tim blog, podcast, Random show. It's going to be one of those search for cock rings. It'll be the only result on Tim Blog.
- [92:27]
Kevin Kelly
And until next time, take care of yourselves.
- [92:29]
Kevin Rose
Be nice. Be a little kinder than is necessary yourselves and to others.
- [92:35]
Tim Ferriss
Hey, guys, this is Tim again. Just one more thing before you take off. And that is is five Bullet Friday. Would you enjoy getting a short email from me every Friday that provides a little fun before the weekend? Between 1 and a half and 2 million people subscribe to my free newsletter, my super short newsletter called five Bullet Friday. Easy to sign up, easy to cancel. It is basically a half page that I send out every Friday to share the coolest things I found or discovered or have started exploring over that week. It's kind of like my diary of cool things. It often includes articles I'm reading books, I'm reading albums, perhaps gadgets, gizmos, all sorts of tech tricks and so on that get sent to me by my friends, including a lot of podcast guests. And these strange esoteric things end up in my field and then I test them and then I share them with you. So if that sounds fun, again, it's very short. A little tiny bite of goodness before you head off for the weekend. Something to think about. If you'd like to try it out, just go to Tim Blog Friday, type that into your browser. Tim Blog Friday. Drop in your email and you'll get the very next one. Thanks for listening. Listeners have heard me talk about making before you manage for years.
- [93:48]
Kevin Rose
All that means to me is that
- [93:50]
Tim Ferriss
when I wake up, I block out three to four hours to do the most important things that are generative, creative, podcasting, writing, etc. Before I get to the email email
- [93:58]
Kevin Rose
and the admin stuff and the reactive
- [94:01]
Tim Ferriss
stuff and everyone else's agenda for my time. For me, I need to find people who are great at managing and that is where Crescent Family Office comes in. You spell it C R E S S E T Crescent Family Office. I was introduced to them by one of the top CPG investors in the world. Crescent is a prestigious family office for CEOs, founders and entrepreneurs.
- [94:22]
Kevin Rose
They handle the complex financial planning, planning,
- [94:24]
Tim Ferriss
uncertain tax strategies, timely exit planning, bill pay wires, all the dozens of other parts of wealth management and just financial management that would otherwise pull me away
- [94:35]
Kevin Rose
from doing what I love most.
- [94:37]
Tim Ferriss
Making things, mastering skills, spending time with the people I care about. And over many years I was getting pulled away from that stuff at least a few days a week and I've completely eliminated that.
- [94:48]
Kevin Rose
So experience.
- [94:49]
Tim Ferriss
Experience the freedom of focusing on what matters to you with the support of a top wealth management team. You can schedule a call today@CrescentCapital.com Tim that's spelled C R E S S E T CrescentCapital.com Tim to see how Crescent can help streamline your financial plans and grow your wealth. That's crescentcapital.com Tim and disclosure I am a client of Crescent and receive cash compensation per EP episode for this testimonial. I'm also a shareholder of Crest's parent company, creating a financial conflict of interest. My experience may not be representative of other clients and all investing involves risk, including loss of principal. So do your due diligence. Sleep is the key to it all. It is the foundation. Many of you heard me Talk about how today's sponsor Eight Sleep, has improved my sleep with its Pod Cover Pod 5 introduced produces Eight Sleep's latest product, the Blanket, which uses the same technology as the Pods Cover to extend temperature regulation across the entire body. On average, members report the Pod has helped them fall asleep 44% faster, 34% deeper sleep, and given them up to one added hour of sleep each night. Also, the pod's snoring detection and automatic elevating platform have reduced user snoring by 45%. You'll also get a personalized record report each morning, allowing you to track your sleep stages, heart rate, variability, respiratory rate and more, all without having any devices strapped onto you. So head over to 8sleep.com Tim and use code Tim to get $350 off of your very own Pod 5 Ultra. You can try it at home for 30 days and return if you don't like it. Again, that's eightsleep.com Tim $350 off shipping is available to many countries countries worldwide one more time. 8sleep.com Tim.