The Times Tech Podcast

Episode: Atari's Nolan Bushnell "I started tinkering in third grade and never stopped"
Date: September 24, 2024
Host: Danny Fortson (with cameo by Katie Prescott)
Guest: Nolan Bushnell (Founder of Atari, "Godfather of Gaming")

Overview

In this bonus episode, Danny Fortson sits down for an in-depth, candid conversation with Nolan Bushnell, the legendary founder of Atari and creator of the modern video game industry. From his beginnings as a curious Mormon kid in Utah to building tech empires in Silicon Valley, Bushnell charts a journey of relentless innovation, DIY entrepreneurship, and shaping the very DNA of Silicon Valley’s culture. The discussion traverses Bushnell’s early hacks, the rise of Atari, the launch of Pong, his insights on Steve Jobs, and a host of ventures—some astronomical successes, others ahead of their time. It’s an oral history brimming with anecdotes, lessons, and the infectious curiosity that continues to propel Bushnell into new frontiers.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Origins of a Tinkerer (02:35–05:49)

• Nolan credits a third-grade science experiment with sparking his lifelong passion for tinkering.
  • “I got the one on electricity...and I was hooked. I went home that day and set up a card table in the corner of my bedroom...and started to tinker and never stopped.” (Nolan Bushnell, 02:42)
• Exposure to ham radio and access to military surplus fed his technical curiosity.
• Early entrepreneurial streak: By age 10, he’d launched a TV and appliance repair business to fund his projects.
  • “It was a way that I was making adult kind of revenue as a 10-year-old kid.” (Nolan Bushnell, 05:46)
• Early resolve: determined “not to work for the man."

2. Education, Amusement Parks, and Management Lessons (06:04–09:38)

• Studies electrical engineering, but is “absolutely last in my class” because work took priority, including managing the games department at a local amusement park.
• The midway job taught him real-world economics, advertising, and people management.
  • “I’ve always said that was my MBA...I had to hire 150 kids and incentivize them and manage labor percentages and merchandise and training...” (08:01)
• Began redesigning games to optimize revenue—a precursor to his later innovations.

3. First Steps into Silicon Valley (09:04–11:27)

• Moved to Silicon Valley in 1968, as it transitioned from prune orchards to a tech hub.
• Starts work at Ampex, making breakthroughs in digital data recording on videotape.
• Illustrates the staggering evolution of storage: a warehouse full of equipment was needed for a single terabyte.

4. Birth of Video Games – From Spacewar to Pong (11:35–20:12)

• Inspired by playing Spacewar, envisioned arcade games as lucrative but faced technological barriers.
  • “If I put a coin slot on the screen it would make money in my arcade. Big money...but 25 cents for three minutes of play into a half a million dollar computer…” (Nolan Bushnell, 12:07)
• Falling semiconductor prices made his vision achievable.
• Founded Atari (first called Syzygy), invested $500, and built the first game "Computer Space."
  • “We each put in $250...Two weeks later, we had a rocket ship flying on a screen.” (Nolan Bushnell, 14:36)
• Licensed to Nutting Associates, but quickly realized he wanted more creative control.
• The real breakthrough: after seeing Magnavox Odyssey’s rudimentary ping-pong game, Bushnell tasked Al Alcorn with improving the design—resulting in PONG.
• Pong underwent initial testing in Andy Capp’s Tavern, earning far more than anticipated and proving the commercial viability.

5. Atari’s Scrappy Rise & Culture (20:17–27:11)

• Production was a hands-on, shoestring affair—cabinet makers, modified TVs, mismatched desks.
  • “My desk was this old crappy school desk...it was my lucky desk. We’re going to keep it.” (Nolan Bushnell, 22:25; 22:46)
• Growth was explosive but always hand-to-mouth until Warner’s acquisition.
• Core advantage: relentless innovation over manufacturing scale or polish.
• Birth of company culture: young, anti-establishment, meritocratic, inspired by the counterculture movement.
  • “We were the only company that had all young executives. I’ve often thought that I basically paved the way for Bill Gates and Steve Jobs…” (Nolan Bushnell, 26:34)

6. The Warner Deal & "Missing Out" on Apple (25:22–37:09)

• Sold Atari to Warner for $26 million in the mid-1970s (“equivalent to a couple hundred million today”).
• Stayed for two years post-sale but describes the transition to a corporate environment and loss of innovation.
• Turned down a one-third stake in Apple for $50,000.
  • “I had the opportunity of being the first investor in Apple, and I turned down a third of Apple Computer for $50,000. I regret it.” (Nolan Bushnell, 36:40)
  • On Jobs: “I didn’t think that Steve was a good chief executive, and I think that he wasn’t.” (Nolan Bushnell, 36:59)

7. Legends at Atari: Steve Jobs and Steve Wozniak (27:52–33:01)

• Jobs joined Atari as a passionate young technician (age 19), initially hired by Al Alcorn.
  • “Steve...came into my office...‘Your company is going to fail unless your people know how to solder.’...‘Why don’t you teach everybody how to solder?’” (Nolan Bushnell, 28:55)
• Jobs’ passion cited as both a strength and a cause of friction—was put on night shift, partly to leverage Wozniak’s help as his friend.
• Breakout was Jobs' big project, designed by Bushnell; Wozniak engineered the hardware.
  • “I knew that if I put him on the night shift, Woz would be there and he’d be playing games and helping. So I’d sort of have two Steves for the price of one.” (Nolan Bushnell, 32:09)
• Notable detail: faux color in games (strips of cellophane over B&W screens) due to TV costs.

8. Legacy: Chuck E. Cheese, Missed Opportunities, and Reinvention (34:04–44:59)

• Atari, post-acquisition, made more revenue than the entire Hollywood film industry (1984), but innovation stalled.
• Bushnell’s next hit: Chuck E. Cheese, a hybrid pizza parlor and arcade; personally more lucrative for him than Atari.
  • “I actually made more money personally in Chuck E. Cheese than I did [with Atari].” (Nolan Bushnell, 35:13)
• Discusses further attempts at innovation, many ahead of their time: personal robots, automotive navigation, touchscreen ordering systems.
• Nearly pioneered a proto-Internet gaming network at Atari, but Warner killed the project.
  • “The protocol that we designed was identical to the IP stack of the Internet. We were going to go live in 1979 and Warner canceled the whole thing.” (Nolan Bushnell, 39:23)

9. Silicon Valley Culture and "The Hacker Ethos" (41:03–42:38)

• Silicon Valley’s unique mix: counterculture, meritocracy, creative rule-breaking—all forming a self-reinforcing innovation “tribe.”
  • “There’s some tribes...Silicon Valley represented this countercultural tribe...then there was the hard tech tribe. They tend to be self-reinforcing.” (Nolan Bushnell, 42:13)
• Rule breaking, including experimentation with drugs, seen as enabling innovation.
  • “Innovation is about rule breaking. If you’re happy with the status quo, you don’t break rules and therefore you don’t innovate.” (Nolan Bushnell, 42:38)

10. Looking Forward: AI, Next-Gen Entertainment, and Family Ventures (42:56–49:05)

• Remains “excited” about the present tech landscape—AI, games, and new frontiers at their intersection.
• Describes new ventures blending Amazon Echo with board games and interactive TV.
• His sons are also successful tech entrepreneurs in VR, gaming, and escape rooms.
• On self-driving cars: sees them as “more important than world peace” for their potential to reduce traffic deaths and reshape urban space.
  • “Auto drive cars are more important than world peace because more people are killed on highway accidents than there are in any of the wars.” (Nolan Bushnell, 47:59)

11. Philosophy and Reflections

• The importance of confidence and encouragement in innovation and entrepreneurship.
  • “The main obstacle with any of these things is the self-confidence of the player...if you don’t try, you definitely fail.” (Nolan Bushnell, 49:13)
• Steve Jobs’ genius was his focus on ease-of-use and his formidable negotiation skills.
  • “He believed whatever...so thoroughly that it was almost like defying gravity to disagree with him.” (Nolan Bushnell, 51:07)
  • Recounts Jobs' legendary intensity: “He had one speed—full on.” (Nolan Bushnell, 29:29; 51:40)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Pioneering Company Culture:
  “We were the only company that had all young executives...I basically paved the way for Bill Gates and Steve Jobs.” (26:34)

• On Early Tech Limitations:
  “We were working on a terabyte memory that literally used a small warehouse full of equipment...” (11:19)

• On Arcade Economics:
  “We sold Pong games for $910...and in their lifetime in coin drop, they'd make $20–50,000.” (19:15; 19:26)

• On Steve Jobs’ Power:
  “You’ve heard about the Jobs derangement syndrome, where he could convince you. Where Gates would say, I don’t like to have a one-on-one with Steve. I always end up agreeing to do something.” (50:42)

• On Regret:
  “I had the opportunity of being the first investor in Apple, and I turned down a third of Apple Computer for $50,000. I regret it.” (36:40)

• On Innovation:
  “Innovation is about rule breaking. If you’re happy with the status quo, you don’t break rules and therefore you don’t innovate.” (42:38)

• On Encouragement:
  “The main obstacle...is the self-confidence of the player. An awful lot of life success is about the self-confidence. Because if you don’t have the confidence to try, you definitely fail.” (49:13)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• [02:35] Bushnell’s third-grade experiment & early tinkering
• [05:01] Launching a TV repair business at age 10
• [06:05] Struggles & real-life MBA at amusement park
• [11:35] Playing Spacewar; the inspiration for coin-op games
• [14:36] Founding the first game company with $500
• [18:29] Field-testing Pong at Andy Capp’s Tavern
• [20:49] Transition from garage shop to full-scale production
• [25:22] The sale to Warner
• [27:52] Company culture & meritocracy at Atari
• [28:55] Steve Jobs joins Atari, soldering revolution
• [32:09] Two Steves for the price of one: Jobs and Wozniak on Breakout
• [34:04] Atari’s revenue surpassing all of Hollywood
• [35:13] Chuck E. Cheese as a personal win
• [39:23] The “missed Internet” story: Atari’s cancelled online network
• [42:13] Describing Silicon Valley’s innovation “tribe”
• [47:59] Vision for autonomous vehicles and urban transformation
• [49:13] Life lessons on confidence and success
• [50:42] Steve Jobs’ legendary persuasiveness

Summary Tone

Bushnell is candid, humorous, and pragmatic—the voice of an open-minded experimenter always chasing the next big idea. Danny brings enthusiasm, reverence, and sharp, insightful questions. The resulting conversation is both reflective and forward-thinking, operating with a blend of nostalgia and relentless optimism for the future.

For anyone interested in Silicon Valley history, entrepreneurial hacks, or just a great story of how obsession and scrappiness can invent the future, this episode is essential listening.